Thread 41385863

I believe the evidence for evolution is overwhelming. How can humans be special and made in God's image but other apes aren't?
Doesn't this mean if you go back far enough I have an ancestor who wasn't human/made in the image of God who gave birth to a human made in God's image?

>>41385863 (OP)
this makes sense if you recognize god in all things as the atman which is brahman

>>41385863 (OP)
evolution is a surprisingly elegant, robust and efficient solution to the problem of complex optimization.
asserting that god doesn't use it, is equivalent with calling him/her dumb.
is that the intention of your post?

>>41385863 (OP)
previous threads related to this topic https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40952000/#q40952000
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/18059907/#q18062454

>>41385894
I agree God and or Christianity is compatible with evolution if you recognize animals are also made in his image

>>41385863 (OP) Evolution is obviously fake and gay.

>>41385898
No I think that believing modern humans are extremely special and uniquely made in his image is false

>>41385917
I've heard no better alternative

>>41385917
https://rednuht.org/genetic_cars_2/

>>41385925
>>41385925
>modern humans are extremely special
but modern humans are extremely special. to paraphrase the prophet 'robert sapolsky': even though all our cognitive traits can be found throughout the animal kingdom, we are better at all of them than any fucking creature... by factor 10.

>made in his image is false
yeah, you are not taking time as dimension into account (also the changed perspective of an omniscient being): God Made Man in his image using evolution. <- here, I fixed your 'contradiction'.

>>41385863 (OP)
>he thinks humans were made in the image of God rather than in the image of the archons/aliens
1 Corinthians 15:47-49, "The first man was from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. As one of dust, so are those who are of the dust, and as one of heaven, so are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the one of dust, we will also bear the image of the one of heaven." Different men, different images, one of which humans do not in general bear.

>>41385966
That doesn't solve the contradiction
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sqFbQgVrg7s
I'd encourage you to skim these threads
>>41385910

by extremely special and made in his image I meant some of our ancestors weren't human/special/made in his image and some were

You never named a exact point in human evolution which divides humans from non humans.
If you believe being human is a spectrum and not binary that's fine but primates are clearly somewhat human and so are mammals so if you believe rights should be granted on the basis of being human you'd have to grant them some rights to be consistent.

I can't name a exact point in which a puddle becomes a lake, a point which divides puddles from lakes. If I believed it was only moral to drain puddles but not lakes that's a serious problem if I can't define the difference.

>>41386017
Which men are which? What about similarities between humans, proto human fossils and primates?
It seems all animals share a common ancestor

>>41385863 (OP)
All matter is fundamentally made of energy. Thus it's all "in the image of god" but actually literally made of god.
>oh what are demons then
A lack thereof. Notice how their depiction is so often just a darkness, coldness, lack of energy. Lack of god.
What you should be more considerate of isn't where humans came from but instead where the universe came from.

>>41386049
Panpsychism?

>>41385863 (OP)
It's not a physical image, since God has no physical body. It's a mental image. Humanity in its ideal form mirrors the divine nature.

>>41386079
What does that mean? Having the ability to reason, understand morality, etc seems like a spectrum not binary some animals can do very simple counting
If you go back far enough some of our ancestors weren't able to reason or understand morality and then over time became more and more able to reason, understand morality, etc

>>41386037
I think maybe the idea is that nobody starts out in the image of God, but one can receive the image of God gradually as part of being adpoted by God, though only after the death of the material body, in resurrection, is the the completed spiritual body made in the image of God received. 2 Corinthians 3:17-18, "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit." Beings attaining the image of God is one of the purposes of the world, not something that has already happened for the most part.

>>41386090
The divine nature is simple, not complex. It's not about abilities.

>>41386128
that's just an empty platitude
>>41386100
What about proto humans who existed before Abraham? How did the world serve it's purpose of allowing them to attain the image of God?

reincarnation, all life is conscious, all life is sacred, nature runs her course but do as they must, our miss management of this beautiful planet we've been blessed with is nothing more than a reflection of how far humanity has mistakenly taken life and its beauty for granted, in a time where truly there is no good reason for their to be those who are starving or homeless, but that damned money became the god of the world and has and will do much harm, the dragons have hoarded the gold for far too long, and no longer shall they continue to poison the world and humanity, all in due time :3

>>41386266
>What about proto humans
There's one world soul from which all souls derive and to which they return until the day comes when all creation is imbued with the spirit of God and absorbed into the pleroma. No one and nothing will be left behind. But if it seems like we've taken a needlessly circuitous route to the desired outcome, blame Sophia for trying to comprehend the Monad. This is all her fault really.

Don't you ever wonder about how the "originator(s)" came to be? Made in the image and likeness of them are we? Perhaps it isn't too much of a stretch to wonder if they have been reincarnating and evolving alongside the rest of their beautiful creations this whole time?

>>41385863 (OP)
There is a much simpler way to get there. The problem is that you get there so fast that once you reach the bottom you have no idea how to get back to the top.

>>41385966
This is a nice syncretic cope but the Bible doesn’t say that buddy, it says he made Adam on the spot no monkey fucking to get there. God is not a monkey fucker.

>>41386342
>>41385966
evolution requires death to have been part of Creation before sin

>>41385863 (OP)
To me, its more metaphoric. To be made in the image of god is to be like him in a smaller form. We are able to create and have a conscious mind unlike the animals we share the world with. We are also immortal spirits contained in a fleshy vessel. When the "21 grams" experiments were done on dying TB patients, every single subject lost a small amount of weight. When the test was done on a dog, there was no weight loss recorded. It could still be taken literally if you can find someone who can tell you what God and a human soul looks like.

>>41386266
>that's just an empty platitude
You couldn't be more wrong.

>>41386359
>To me, its more metaphoric. To be made in the image of god is to be like him in a smaller form. we are able to create and have a conscious mind unlike the animals we share the world with.

Proto humans can create and non human animals can create. Proto humans were conscious and non human animals around today are conscious just look at the Cambridge declaration of consciousness.
>We are also immortal spirits contained in a fleshy vessel. When the "21 grams" experiments were done on dying TB patients, every single subject lost a small amount of weight.

this isn't actually true.
>Only a subset (about half) showed any apparent loss, and MacDougall himself noted the variability, blaming technical issues or the soul's "hesitation" to depart. Modern critiques attribute any changes to factors like evaporation of moisture from the lungs or scale inaccuracies.
>When the test was done on a dog, there was no weight loss recorded.

this is pseudoscience.
Do proto human souls weigh 10.5 grams?

>>41386431
>Proto humans can create and non human animals can create. Proto humans were conscious and non human animals around today are conscious just look at the Cambridge declaration of consciousness.
Let me rephrase: Humans have higher consciousness. Pigs and dogs are smart, but I don't see them creating rockets to the moon or mag-lev trains.

>Do proto human souls weigh 10.5 grams?
21 grams experiment is just what people like to call it. I didn't mean they all lost 21 grams.

Believe in it or not, there are plenty of other ways on this board to prove to yourself that we are spirits in a fleshy vessel.

>>41385863 (OP)
Not a creationist but every turn of the staircase and even each step in OP picrel is completely unproven and requires dogmatic faith in neodarwinianism to accept.

Watch the "evolution" of a zygote into a fetus into a child into an adult. Is the progression of speciation from genetic mutation an accident? Or is every aspect of life itself the embodiment of an intelligent force that permiates the material world?

>>41386478
>Let me rephrase: Humans have higher consciousness. Pigs and dogs are smart, but I don't see them creating rockets to the moon or mag-lev trains.

Beavers create dams. Some other animals use tools. Proto humans drew drawings on caves.
Modern humans aren't super special. Modern humans do not have superpowers our ancient ancestors all completely lacked.

>Believe in it or not, there are plenty of other ways on this board to prove to yourself that we are spirits in a fleshy vessel.

Maybe but that doesn't prove only modern humans have spirits and pigs and proto humans don't have spirits.

>>41385863 (OP)
I can't believe in neither creationism nor in evolution
Evolution falls too nicely into the Luciferian and Freemasonic false belief of linearity and climbing through the pyramid's levels, it posits a linear reality with an end goal, through the false enlightenment of accumulation of knowledge, evolution is, at is core, accumulation
Creationism has its own problems too, it posits a purpose for that creation, with the master potter determining its creation's purpose, with good and bad, and beautiful and ugly pottery, that which also reveals an elitist lie, in Evolution, the weak have no hope in the survival of the fittest, and in Creationism, the creation is beholden to the Creator's intent, if you are a bad creation you are fucked
Both have their problems and reveal very human viewpoints, very human insecurities and anxieties, born out of clinging and attachments

>>41386577
Intelligent design is really the best and most logically sound idea. We are a material extension of the universe and as such we embody a form of intelligence. The ability to understand and categorize natural phenomena that exist outside our pshyche is the best argument for human intelligence. It also argues that the universe and material world is itself intelligible.

>>41385863 (OP)
>image of God
it means that we have free will, as He has
thats all, not how we look or anything

>>41386798
Any evidence of this idea?

>>41385863 (OP)
we are made IN God's image

>>41386510
>Beavers create dams. Some other animals use tools. Proto humans drew drawings on caves.
>Modern humans aren't super special. Modern humans do not have superpowers our ancient ancestors all completely lacked.
Its been said that civilization truly began once we looked after the dead. We ceased to be beings that lived merely for survival but also for lofty things like an after life. That means we have had to at least grow technologically to even think of the concept of God. I'm not a Jew but their word for "god" is supposedly the same word for "mind".
If an animal came from god, it may as well mean nothing to it because it wont help it get laid or eat.
The writers of the bible loved their metaphors and double speak. I'm sure its no coincidence that god is portrayed as an all seeing eye.

TL;DR you need a higher mind to even see such an "image" of god

>>41385863 (OP)
>he things the body is the image of God
how dumb atheists can be?

>>41386705
>Intelligent design is really the best and most logically sound idea. We are a material extension of the universe and as such we embody a form of intelligence. The ability to understand and categorize natural phenomena that exist outside our pshyche is the best argument for human intelligence. It also argues that the universe and material world is itself intelligible.

Some modern humans like babies and severely mentally handicapped adults lack the ability to understand and categorize natural phenomena that exist outside their pshyche and some animals that exist today are just as good as or better then those humans at this ability.
Proto humans seemed to have some ability to categorize natural phenomena that existed outside their pshyche.

>>41386798
I'm agnostic anyone has free will.
Do human babies have free will?
Do severely mentally handicapped human adults have free will?
Do pigs have free will?
Do proto humans have free will?
How could two proto humans who have zero free will give birth to a child who had some amount of free will?

>>41385863 (OP)
>>41385863 (OP)
>Homo Erectus
>constructed the wheel
idc about anything else said on the thread I just want to say that image is completely wrong and retarded and OP should kill himself for posting it

I have memories of being underwater and I know nobody will ever believe me and say I'm bullshitting. I fucking remember.

>>41388538
Strawman
>>41388022
>Elephants: African elephants are among the most studied for their mourning behaviors. They often touch and cover the bones of deceased family members with dirt or vegetation, revisit sites of death for years, and even appear to "cry" by releasing tears during these rituals. This communal care strengthens social bonds within herds.
>Chimpanzees: These primates have been observed grooming the corpses of dead group members, carrying deceased infants for days, and showing signs of distress like lethargy or reduced appetite. In one case, a mother chimp carried her dead baby for over a week before letting go.

>Its been said that civilization truly began once we looked after the dead.

I'd say it was agriculture.
>We ceased to be beings that lived merely for survival but also for lofty things like an after life. That means we have had to at least grow technologically to even think of the concept of God. I'm not a Jew but their word for "god" is supposedly the same word for "mind".

The problem for Judaism and Christianity is the concept of God and an afterlife predates Judaism entirely.
Key Evidence: Skhul and Qafzeh Caves (circa 100,000–120,000 Years Ago)

Location: Near present-day Haifa, Israel (Mount Carmel region).
Context: These Middle Paleolithic sites contain the remains of at least 10 early Homo sapiens individuals (along with some Neanderthal burials nearby). The bodies were deliberately placed in shallow pits, often in a flexed position, and covered with earth—marking the oldest unambiguous evidence of intentional burial by our species.
Indicators of Afterlife Belief:

Use of red ochre (a symbolic pigment, possibly representing blood, life force, or transformation) sprinkled on the bodies.
Inclusion of marine shells (e.g., dentalium shells from the Mediterranean, up to 20 km away) as grave goods, worn as beads or placed near the head, suggesting offerings or adornments for the deceased's journey.

>>41388646
No signs of scavenging or natural deposition; the careful arrangement implies ritualistic intent.


Interpretation: Archaeologists like Paul Pettitt and others argue this reflects an emerging cognitive awareness of mortality and a desire to maintain connections with the dead, evolving into formalized afterlife concepts. It's part of a broader pattern in the Levant where symbolic behavior (e.g., ochre use) hints at proto-religious thought, though direct proof of "afterlife" ideology remains inferential.

On Beliefs in Gods or Deities
The earliest evidence for supernatural beings (e.g., animism, spirits, or proto-deities) appears later, in the Upper Paleolithic (~40,000–50,000 years ago), with symbolic art:

Lion-Man Figurine (Hohlenstein-Stadel Cave, Germany; ~40,000 years ago): An ivory carving of a human-lion hybrid, interpreted as a shamanistic spirit, totem, or early deity representing transformation or the divine.
Venus Figurines (e.g., Hohle Fels, Germany; ~35,000–40,000 years ago): Exaggerated female forms possibly symbolizing fertility goddesses or ancestral spirits.

>>41388022
>If an animal came from god, it may as well mean nothing to it because it wont help it get laid or eat.

That's a problem for theists (especially jews Christians and Muslims) not me. Maybe God should provide for non human animals and proto humans so they have happy meaningful lives. Maybe he shouldn't create them if they're guaranteed to suffer and live meaningless lives.
>The writers of the bible loved their metaphors and double speak. I'm sure its no coincidence that god is portrayed as an all seeing eye.
TL;DR you need a higher mind to even see such an "image" of god

If that's the definition of higher mind then humans have had it for tens of thousands of years. Long before Judaism.

>>41385863 (OP)
Made in the image of God is amalgam of the spirit.
That is to the effect of the seven sins and the opposite.
All is wisdom. All is spirit.

>>41389963
that's just empty platitudes

>>41388646
Elephants also bury their dead
Humans are not special

The only thing that makes humans unique is writing and technology
Animals do everything humans do, except for writing and technology

>>41391290
What do you not understand about it?
Take the emotion out of this if you will please
I'm not trying to have a pride battle

I think this is something that takes some digging to think about
If people mostly go about in distraction
even a little they won't have time for it
It's not for most people
Saved for the saved from sin to question
very seriously

>>41391386
but if you go far enough back some of my ancestors couldn't write or use technology and my more recent ancestors could.
At one point did two "non humans" who couldn't write or use technology give birth to a human who could write and use technology?

>>41391484
I see basically no difference between what you said and jrsfincdtincdubd

>>41389963
>Made in the image of God is amalgam of the spirit.

Do only humans have this spirit? Do non human animals that exist today have it?
If I go far enough back did two of my ancestors who didn't have this spirit give birth to a human who had this spirit?

Bump

Give 1 example where another kind was made from evolution.

ex. birds > frog
chicken > croc
ape > human

Species yes. Another kind? no.

>>41385863 (OP)
I think part of the problem is that a lot of people did used to have more nuanced belives about animals and thier souls , as well as them also beliving humans did have a unique divine spark , but I think we are all to modern rerards to get it.


On another topic what do you think of npcs.

You talked about how two unsparked people could make a non sparked soul , but people today think of thier parents as that.

>>41391386
>Elephants also bury their dead
Weren't elephants also considered devine?

Like maybe one could argue , that its human and elephants who are kino.

People a lot of the time blame science for a wierd illness of the mind , that we have around this type of stuff.

But aren't a lot of this soul conversations for example , closer to the idea of mathematical proof than scientific proof.

>>41385863 (OP)
>Doesn't this mean if you go back far enough I have an ancestor who wasn't human/made in the image of God who gave birth to a human made in God's image?

yeah but no.
the "angels" or "elohim" (mighty ones) or for your understanding in modern times, aliens, hybridized an apen like creature (naturally evolved on earth) with their own genome, creating humanity.

we are bastards, really.. holy bastards.

>>41393249
Okay hold on it's page 8
I'll try to flesh out an answer
Basically I'll hope the spirit of truth helps
me but it isn't very complicated and all
the wait will be for hardly anything
Albeit time is relaxing to think

>>41393273
Yeah animals have a variant of right and
wrong decision making
Basically life is fleshed out of two core principles
That is love and self love(pride).
Pride is the chief sin to which the others relate
However they relate at the most
fundamental scale that pride can be
isolated upon parts
Isn't it interesting to make contact with a bee?
With the animals governing sentience at the metric standard
However all animals are governed by
underlying go forces pertained to life
Life is governed by the metric life and death
Like 0 and 1, logic gates and a high point to elicit order


If there is anything more to say I'll think a bit
Also keep asking me questions and I'll
keep trying to help
Trying meaning I will do my best to think

>>41385863 (OP)
>but other apes aren't?
All life is made in the image of God.
Did you REALLY think God only looks human?

>>41393249
All is spirit
Spirit is core information
That is your hands, nose, ears, mouth etc
All amalgam of flesh sense the world in the spirit
I think therefore I am
That information is deduced in the brain
to give some context of the world
And the brain is deduced in the spirit
That is just raw information in the mind of infinity(God).
All of this is in the mind of God
However we are real in the infinite God
As real as real gets. We are tiny parts and we will never be the whole process
Psalm 82:6

So it is in the mind of God to create
However he is here too alongside us
And above us.
Right in the middle of good and bad is
The ladder to heaven. That is where
God's throne is. He is the most High.
That spot is infinity.
He is the Lord of Wisdom
Wisdom is a lesson between right and wrong.
So God animates information for us to learn.
We go about in freewill to decide between
the amalgam of our flesh and spirit which
pertains to the seven sins and the opposite.
That is our understanding and even we converse with the Lord in this manner.
We are like him having complete jurisdiction over the earth and to have a
go at all creation in understanding

We are steward.
There is work to do to bring in peace.
Then nature spins the dial and freewill
To decide when and where the pieces
might not be placed back into their boxes.

>>41394763
God is the dynamic universal center.

>>41393273
With your ancestors
They all had this spirit
It may have been cloudy and just at the seeds
But it may also have been complete and we fell from it
It's hard to tell
However surely as they walk they are the human spirit
>>41394771
A center
Yeah perhaps you can look at it like that
Albeit the center rises infinitely.
A circle is just a polar opposite anyway
Marriage is made with good and evil as per the observer and the deviations
curve in understanding
Gradual as time begets understanding

Wisdom is the patriarch spirit.
You could surmount extreme wisdom;
You grab a fiddle and play it

You already know what song you're going to play
And play it, it's boring.
So we have intelligence and knowledge.
It's fun.
We are effectively golems until animated by the spirit.
Which is wisdom and our deduction is
that pertained to wisdom, intelligence,
and knowledge.
Wisdom has to do with faith which is the
father of intelligence.
A moral endeavor is ability to accept truth.
Where a spirit accepts truth it grows.
Even faith as we are inanimate until otherwise animated.
Freewill sits at the base notion of faith.
We make a moral choice between good and evil and learn.

>>41385863 (OP)
The visible image of the invisible God is the Word, which is prior to creation and divisibility at its source but not separate from what it emanates. Being prior to the source it is neither this nor that. Before thought, during thought, and after thought you remain unchanged. Anything said about what you are is the mind and created. The body and senses come after you know the mind and are created. The world seen is created by the forms and names of the mind and even then what appears is always blinking in and out at its source. Time and space are presented to you from the mind. Waking, dreaming and sleeping are not you either. It all comes after your being which is the image of God.

>>41394912
Prior to the living was just solar movement.

It was all one center.

God is this center.

>>41394756
This makes sense, all life or at least all conscious life

>>41385863 (OP)
it could also be both, natural evolutionary pressure shaped by fate that leads to bipedal and hairless aethetic apes, maybe even convergent across multiple solar systems, we just don't know

>>41394763
So idealism? We're made in the image of God because we all exist in God's mind like a dream?

>Barkon
>>41394763
>God is the dynamic universal center.

>>41394173
I'm agnostic on free will but I find it hard to believe most people have lots of libertarian free will because of the extremely strong link between genetics and obesity and their being so few vegans, abortion abolishinists and effective altruists

>>41394176
seems incredibly unlikely it'd be those two specifically

>>41394912
So theological idealism?

>>41385863 (OP)
Other apes lack access to the correct internal feedback mechanism.
Homo sapien can touch the rim if it stands on it's intellectual tippy toes.

Comprehension of the concept of God is a threshold of experience.

>>41395596
So two apes who lacked access to the correct internal feedback mechanism and couldn't touch the rim gave birth to a being who possessed the correct internal feedback mechanism and could touch the rim?

>>41395509
Just truth I dont know all the things you look up

God set division to the void
Effectively life is a lesson
An unraveling of wisdom
We follow the Lord who divided
It isn't empty like a dream
Or rather a dream is still a lesson
God is beyond that; truly infinite
Time is an understanding of the division

I believe there has to be a creator for all this shit all universes and everything. That aside, seriously, ask yourself, what kind turned to another kind? Do we have proof of ONE example? By 'kind' I mean dogkind turning into bearkind or apekind turning into mankind. We have proof of evolution in different SPECIES, but not different KINDS.

>>41395771
we don't need one

>>41385863 (OP)
Humans are created but not by god and not by magic.
Every hint to our creation is in the flaw of our spine. No animal would ever grow on a planet like this without a way to account for its gravity.

The flaw in our spine and form is a result of aquatic oversight. A species with no need to consider the long term effects of a planet’s gravity on the spine made us entirely for industry and possibly aesthetic.
As an “ape” species (we are actually chimera), no one could evolve in this way without being seen as a threat to a community and would be jumped/killed by others who are looking for brownie points for taking out the one person going around as a walking middle finger.
No tail makes more room, no hunching allows for us to be bunched easier. Our wonky spine forces us to rock and sway for balance and keeps us nomadic and moving because it’s easier than staying still.

>>41395771
Yes, whales are a good example, supposedly they first evolved into a dog-like land animal then went back into the ocean due to high pressures on land, eventually becoming whales.
If you want an example right now look at salmon. Atlantic and Pacific salmon evolved separately long enough that they have different numbers of chromosomes and can no longer breed.
But this took 10 million years to happen, only after the continents shifted enough to separate the Atlantic and pacific oceans. That should illustrate the time scales required to observe this happening and why we don’t see it often in labs or on human timescales.

>>41395771
I was actually able to find a modern example of a land mammal slowly returning to the sea. Look up the North Ronaldsay sheep.
This is an isolated population of sheep that live on shorelines and eat almost exclusively seaweed. Their digestive system has adapted to ingest copper in a totally different way and it can actually be dangerous for them to eat normal grass as a result. In time these sheep would probably become more and more specialized to eat seaweed and eventually become semi-aquatic as a result.
The reason there are so few animals like this today is because life has already been around long enough to fill most niches. In early evolutionary history there weren’t animals like whales so that “niche” could still become occupied. Today few niches are exposed and so animals aren’t being pushed into them by competitive pressure as strongly. Which gives us more stable animals that do a specific thing instead of a bunch of weird in between animals like in ancient times.

>>41396654
Using the scientific method. We need to be able to observe it.

>>41385863 (OP)
>I believe the evidence for evolution is overwhelming

Explain how highly complex organs can develop out of "random mutation" then. Try randomly mutating the code of the operating system on your PC and see if it develops new abilities instead of just crashing.

>>41386266
>What about proto humans who existed before Abraham
what makes you believe that they in fact existed? bones that jesuits "found" you know there have been plenty of "missing links" proven to be forgeries right? there is no undeniable proof that we came from anything more primitive then ourselves only theories, a scientist producing some bones isnt proof

>>41396945
>Try randomly mutating the code of the operating system on your PC and see if it develops new abilities instead of just crashing.
There is a thing in machine learning called evolutionary algorithms that are supposed to mimic evolution, and supposedly they work decently well, although I don't know much about it personally beyond that it's a thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_algorithm
>Evolutionary algorithms (EA) reproduce essential elements of biological evolution in a computer algorithm in order to solve "difficult" problems, at least approximately, for which no exact or satisfactory solution methods are known.
>Evolutionary algorithms often perform well approximating solutions to all types of problems because they ideally do not make any assumption about the underlying fitness landscape.

>>41396888
There’s a study being ran right now on e-coil bacteria, they’re around 80k generations in. But the results aren’t interesting so I didn’t want to mention it.
It took the salmon tens of millions of years just to stop being able to interbreed. So it will probably be centuries before this experiment shows the bacteria turn into a different type of bacteria.
The experiment will continue to run. If you’re familiar with the tar drop experiments, those have been run for nearly 200 years now. So in a few hundred years we’ll be able to see in the lab a direct step-by-step evolution from one type of life to another.
The problem is the timescales are massive and microbiology has only been around for a couple hundred years as a field. Not a lot of time for science to observe it.
If you accept plant evolution there’s plenty of examples there. Just look at what we’ve done with modern versions of plants like corn and bananas, or broccoli and similar veggies which we created from some totally weird origin plant.
Obviously this is human guided evolution but it shows that the principle is there biologically.

bump

>>41396945
Tiny changes over time. Something like a kidney might have started out as a mutation in a blood vessel that created a filtering effect. It was beneficial so the creatures with the mutation had more kids. Eventually they outcompete the rest and now the entire species has a primitive kidney that can evolve further with more mutations and generations.

>>41385894
hindpoo satana dharma

>>41397693
be nice anon

Evolution debate just went live https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQLuAiFHWc

Shouldn't all Christians reject scriptural inerrancy since evolution is incompatible with Genesis

>>41386338
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcOHiGonWwU
One way to figure out how to get back up is to not be so pretentious about how the cosmos works based on other people's teachings you stole. Something about lies and theft and ill spirit bounds one once they get that deep.. Something Egyptians said never to do in the abyss.. The tower of babel was in the abyss btw.

Isn't there a weird chromosome in humans that isn't present in any other primate that some people think is evidence of ancient genetic engineering?

We are made inside of the image, of The Creator

>>41388587
>I'm agnostic anyone has free will.
Do human babies have free will?
no, they still dont have thar part of the soul
Do severely mentally handicapped human adults have free will?
yes
Do pigs have free will?
no, animals will never have
Do proto humans have free will?
there is nothing as protohumans

>>41399000
>no, they still dont have thar part of the soul

How and when do they get that? How do you know once they've gotten it?
>yes
Even if they're less intelligent then a pig?
>no, animals will never have
Why not? >>41397117 can't they evolve this capability? If you remove parts of an adult humans brain they can no longer reason so if we add this part of a brain to a pig won't they gain the ability to reason and have free will?
>there is nothing as protohumans
You don't believe in evolution? You believe modern humans don't have a ancestor who wasn't a modern human?

>>41398890
no, there's just a chromosome that is a fusion of 2 other chromosomes. all of our chromosomes show clear relationship with other apes

bump

>>41385894
>this makes sense if you recognize god in all things as the poopoo which is the peepee

>>41400625
cool, got more info?

>>41401230
Based

Bump

>>41385863 (OP)
>I believe the evidence for evolution is overwhelming.

There is evidence for species mutating to a degree yes, like in humans, some genes recess and others activate under certain environmental conditions.
But turning to a new species to the point where current organism is unable to reproduce with its predeccesor species and so on until we come around one day? Seems like a huge stretch. The fact that we obviously can't test this hypothesis in real time (it would take millions of years) just seems like a convenient excuse to not question it

>>41385863 (OP)
>human beings are dumb niggers
>they are made in the image of God
>therefore God is a dumb nigger

boom

>>41402270
Our minds are good our bodies are not

>>41402245
There are animals that recently became separated, like salmon, who can no longer breed with each other despite being the same animal. And there are experiments being run to observe it, like with e-coil.
Microbiology is barely 100 years old. It’s not convenient that this stuff takes so long it’s massively inconvenient. Your great grandkids will probably have direct evidence of evolution in a lab.
If you’re someone who believes in evolution based on the principles it’s very frustrating that there’s no direct evidence in the lab, I wish I could see 200 years into the future and pull the results of this work back to today. But it’s just too early right now. It sucks having to put your bets on a position that is strong but ultimately unproven.

>>41402270
There is a bell curve and fine merit at a
small percent even a fraction

Those who argue with emotion as
opposed to truth
Are not fit to see glory

Bump

>>41385863 (OP)
We have never found any life on Earth that isn't related to all other life on Earth. This suggests that life doesn't just spontaneously arise wherever the conditions are right - there ought to be all sorts of competing lineages if that was the case. How could the first proto-unicells spread over and terraform the entire world into an unsuitable environment for new life to form, before any rivals appeared? There is no evidence of life ever being completely extinguished, despite a myriad of unimaginable cataclysms since the dawn of life. This, to me, suggests that the creation of life was such a potent and unlikely event that it had to be an intentional act by an unbelievably powerful and far-seeing being of some kind. I would further argue that that creator is keeping an eye on the creation, for whatever unknown aim there was behind such a thing.

>>41403737
That's possible maybe something like this https://benthams.substack.com/p/the-archon-abandonment-theodicy?utm_source=publication-search

>>41385863 (OP)
wow OP it's almost like humans are NOT specially made in a god's image or something

>>41404201
Yes that's my best guess either no one is made in God's image or every conscious being is made in God's image

>>41404214
maybe God is SO complex that virtually every conscious being would have SOME of Him in them and thus be partially "made in His image"

>>41403737
We found unrelated life recently, look up obelisks. They are RNA-organisms that don’t connect to any known branch of life.

>>41404255
I think God is simple but I agree https://benthams.substack.com/p/god-may-be-maximally-simple?utm_source=publication-search

>>41404273
maybe idk

Their genomes and structures don't share ancestry with anything else documented, making them a novel discovery that expands our understanding of RNA-based entities. However, calling them "organisms" or fully independent "life" stretches the definition—they're more akin to RNA plasmids or virus-like particles that parasitize existing bacterial cells, not self-sustaining entities capable of metabolism or evolution on their own. They don't represent a separate origin of life but rather a parasitic or symbiotic element within the existing biosphere, similar to how viruses or viroids operate.
This doesn't directly refute the original point about cellular life's singular ancestry, as obelisks aren't cellular and depend on that shared tree for hosts. They might hint at ancient RNA-world relics or undiscovered diversity in genetic elements, but they don't evidence multiple spontaneous arisings of life itself. If anything, their novelty underscores how much we still don't know about microbial worlds, but it aligns more with evolutionary tinkering than a separate creation event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q37eP3zOPtk

Evolution is bullshit and meant to make humans doubt their divine origins

>humans discover fire 400,000 years ago
>nothing happens for 396,000 years
>4,000 years ago human history randomly begins
396,000 years is such an insanely long time for nothing to happen. The chances that it took humans 396,000 years to go from making fire to writing things down are essentially 0%, and modern historians are starting notice all of these unexplainable "theories".

The previous generation pushed a whole lot of "theories" as if they were hard facts, and as they die off, I expect their theories will too.

>>41403737
the alignment of Orion's belt with this monument was 75,000 years ago
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/adams-calendar

>>41404419
Making fire, hunting, cooking, take massive amounts of brain power. Those mutations could have increased from cooked food releasing more and more varied nutrients, fueling mutations in the brain.
400,000 years is a very short time span comparatively.
Pattern recognition takes time.
It's like the match game, but with millions of pieces around the entire world.

>>41404396
>comments turned off
Of course, can’t have anyone correcting his retardation now can we?

>>41404371
I agree with you. I mean they have RNA, not some novel system. Interesting example though!

>>41404419
There were definitely civilizations of at least Bronze Age technological level before or during the last ice age. They were destroyed when the ice age ended and the lowlands flooded all over the world.
But this stuff is all deep underwater and no one is interested in funding these missions when it’s hard to find and it might only disprove some important guys theory.
We’re stuck there in cosmology too. Dark energy is gonna stick around for another 30 years until everyone who shilled it is dead.

>>41404419
Technological advancement is exponential, not linear. Think about every single thing you use every single day, and realize someone’s LIFE was dedicated to making that thing. We take for granted that when it drops below 30 degrees we don’t have to say “well little Timmy’s fucked,” we just say “roads will be a bit slick tomorrow.” Women used to just die in pregnancy fucks sake, the fact you know who your mother is should be a blessing. Human knowledge is a truly wonderful thing.

>>41404690
I wish maternal mortality was higher then less men would be divorce raped

>>41395630
Depends.

The onus is on an experiencer to experience.

>>41404830
Can a pig be an experiencer experiencing this?
Some humans claim to have their first memories from when they were one or two years old and pigs are at least as smart as a three year old human

>>41385898
The only proof i've seen for evolution is in viruses, bombarded with radiation, which either kicked the bucket or mutated out of control and changed back to their previous form as soon as the radiation was removed (it preserved it's original dna and removed all mutations). I don't get the argument that common dna == a family chain between life forms, when writing code you reuse what works in different programs, you would expect a creator to do the same thing when programming our dna, it seems like a stupid point to make. I haven't seen a good explanation on how the source of information comes to being from matter using evolutionary terms. It seems every single theory biologists have is either just another ((scientists think)) faith system that was pulled from their ass or what they put forward ends up being wrong. Evolution also has to explain how the universe comes into being given it's intrinsically linked to the cause and effect chains of the universe and it's just a branch of that cause and effect chain - it should be able to unwind that cause and effect chain and explain the start of the universe if it is true, but at the moment it cannot explain how it started itself. Also we have to admit might makes right and philosophy is pure bullshit if we conclusively prove evolution as the first cause, which means we need to unwind the scientific movement as it stands on the foundations of the enlightenment - a mostly Christian philosophical movement which gave birth to evolution which comes with it's own implications that if the foundations which modern science is built on is bullshit, how do we not know that the entire tree said movement spawn isn't bullshit itself (inb4 we can test it, those testing methods would be built on the foundations of bullshit)?

>>41404690
This is wrong. Technological advancement is exponential if you are living at the start of the growth curve. It flattens off to nothing after a certain period of time. Computers today are barley more powerful than they were 10 years ago. Any period of time before that they doubled in power every year. Once you hit a point of knowledge and technology the resources needed to advance that knowledge/technology becomes exponential and the reward for said investment becomes additive instead of multiplicative. We have seen this in real-time with AI which is now at a wall where they need hundreds of billions to get a 10% upgrade on the previous model itself which cost a fraction of that. Additive gains will eventually trend to near 0 in comparison to the sum total functionality of X technology and it will cost more sum of all the previous investments in said technology to see that near 0 improvement. Human knowledge and technology has a functional hard cap which is how much resources it takes to see improvements and that itself is hardcapped by the total resources on the planet.

>>41405026
>Cause and effect chains of the universe and

What about brute facts? What about true randomness?

We know that genes determine how a lifeform grows. We know that new genes appear as lifeforms reproduce. We can literally see in real time as new mutations show up before our eyes such as in the case of Darwin's finches. Literally the only way to deny evolution is to pretend that genes don't exist.

Bump

>>41405370
Everyone knows that evolution happens among creatures. We've seen turtles evolve within our lifetime.

The "theory of evolution" is the specific theory that humans evolved from monkeys, which is highly debated even among atheist scientists.

>>41396945
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwew5gHoh3E

It's about having a large enough population and the right incidence of random mutations. Most random mutations cause detriment to the individual, but there's a chance it doesn't.
Evolution is powered by all sorts of mutations resulting in death so that a few result in success, and happens over the course of millions and millions of years.

>>41402245
>>41402345
We have fossil evidence.

Evolution deniers should provide a better explanation then evolution instead of just doing internal critiques

>>41385863 (OP)
It means god made everything and everything would eventually include humans who become cognizant of/say hi to god. A species that is sentient, like god. And if god made everything, he also made the billions of years and impossible chances that led to us, a species that “woke up” and looked back at him

Idk man your question sounds like a kid that just found about religion or is having a hard time grasping metaphors and asks literal questions about a subject that is anything but literal

>>41408950
Did two individuals who weren't cognizant of and couldn't say hi to God give birth to a individual who was cognizant of and able to say hi to God?

>>41397693
vedism(vedas&upanishads) was aryan, hinduism(puranic) is poo

>>41385863 (OP)
The Theory of Evolution

>>41409314
The theory of gravity
Gravity is just a theory
If it's lighter than air it'll rise
If an object is heavier then air it'll fall down
That's called Buoyancy and it makes more sense then gravity
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fAZyGasXI0E

>>41386577
What if I told you it was 37.5% evolution, 37.5% creationism and the rest if free will. That would be just perfect wouldn't it?

>>41409794
>>41409794
Sorry typo

>>41385863 (OP)
I think the phrase "made in the image of God" is probably misleading.
We are made within and of God.
Evolution is irrelevant, the universe grows and evolves like the contents of a petri dish.

>>41410076
Aren't pigs also made within and of God then?

Bump

>>41410156
So are rocks and air, what's your point?

>>41385863 (OP)
>I believe the evidence for evolution is overwhelming
oh really? explain to me why is it that in the timespan homosapien invented the internet all other animal species on the planet still don't evolve to use tools or language with words

>>41410478
that it doesn't make sense to justify turning pigs into sandwiches but oppose turning humans into sandwiches.

>>41410558
Why? Because you said so?
Go do it, I'm not here to save you.

>>41410578
It's a problem for Christians whose God ordered millions of animals to be sacrificed for him but pearl clutches about innocent human life

>>41410509
I would think because of humans. If there were any smart animals we drove them out.

>>41410595
>If there were any smart animals we drove them out
We would have found evidence of this, furthermore, if that were the case, intelligent animals would pop randomly at any point in history, in any place of earth, this however doesn't seem to happen at all ever

It's possible god is in every living thing but what makes us different is that we can talk about it.

Maybe that's even the point. In that it's a refinement process that is ongoing rather than a thing that is simply already done.

>>41411040
Did two individuals who weren't able to talk about God give birth to a individual who was able to talk about God?

>>41411096

Most likely someone first started to talk to themselves about an unseen force that seemingly had a will.

Because that shit stands out.

>>41410668
We do have evidence of it with human-like ancestors, as well as megafauna that were entirely eliminated by human activity. North America used to have the Short-Faced Bear and Giant Ground Sloth and these were both devastated into extinction by the native Americans before we even got there. Who knows what weird shit we eliminated in Eurasia before recorded history. We just got the smartest the fastest.

>>41411137
But isn't this a very weird way to create life? Animals suffering and dying for millions of years before the first being who can worship God is created?

>>41411540

I said we're the first beings that can talk about it, not the first beings that experience it. Maybe we're the first beings who recognize what it is. And there are millions of squirrels out there that feel the love of god but don't do anything with it other than enjoy life.

Wait, why aren't we doing that?

Ever notice how sometimes it seems like dogs enjoy life more than we do? Odd. Isn't it?

>>41411606
This makes sense but unfortunately most theists are human supremacists

Bump

>>41385863 (OP)
>made in the image of God
The Primacy of God has no physical form. Being made in his image means that we possess the only qualities that he has, which are the capacity for consciousness and free will. We are not printed facsimiles of an anthropomorphic old man deity. We are embodied holographic fractal representations of the Godhead, which has no properties except the aforementioned. The human form is not crafted of clay. It is an emergent expression of the universe

>>41412129
Did two of my ancestors who weren't conscious and or didn't have free will give birth to one of my ancestors who was conscious and or had free will?

>>41412198
No, one of your ancestors that had the potentiality to express free will decided to take itself up on that offer and created two of your ancestors that were the actualized expressions of free will. And the rest, as they say, is history

>>41385863 (OP)
>creationism is dumb
>evolving from fish is dumb
well shit... i guess humanity is just one big fucking meme at this point. lol. lesson learned.

>>41412426
What do you mean? Retrocausality? Hypertime?

>>41385894
Oh I thought this was retarded but reread it and think I agree.

>>41412426
What about my ancestors who didn't have the potentiality to express free will? Did two of my ancestors who didn't have the potentiality to express free will give birth to one of my ancestors who did have the potentiality of free will expression?

>>41412522
>Be OP
>Think ancestors are randomly deciding to have free will
>Free will already existed
>Waiting to express itself until self realization
>OP suddenly becomes self aware at this realization
>OP finally decided to question his free will
>By questioning himself he express his free will
>OP realizes he was his ancestor all along
>God.exe successfully booted

>>41412592

I'm not God at least not really

>>41412563
>Be OP's Grandad
>Mfw I'm a rock
>No water nearby
>No transducer to pick up signal
>Doesn't matter
>Doing rock things
>See a sexy igneous in the distance
>Roll over to her
>Make sweet rock love (20,000 years later}
>We finally rub microbes
>Make sweet microbe children
>Fuk yeah I'm so stoned
>Our kids are beautiful
>We grow mold together
>Finally have grandkids
>Happiest day of my life
>My grandchild picks me up and places me on a desk
>Look granddad! I posted it!
>This same shitpost again

>>41412599
The real God was the silly motherfuckers we met along the way you rascally scoundrel

>>41395771
I mean, dogs? We made wolves into pugs, no wild pugs existed, they weren't discovered.

>>41412731
Yes, pugs can breed with wolves and produce viable, fertile offspring, as domestic dogs (including pugs) and gray wolves are the same species—*Canis lupus*—with dogs classified as a subspecies (*Canis lupus familiaris*). This interfertility allows for successful hybridization across dog breeds, though pug-wolf crosses are extremely rare in practice due to significant size differences (pugs weigh 14–18 lbs and stand 10–13 inches tall, while wolves can exceed 100 lbs), potential physical mating challenges, and ethical/legal concerns surrounding wolf hybrids.

### Key Biological Facts
- **Genetic Compatibility**: All modern dog breeds, including pugs, trace their ancestry to ancient wolves, enabling crossbreeding that results in healthy hybrids (often called wolfdogs). Offspring are typically fertile and can backcross with either parent species.
- **Practical Barriers**: While biologically possible, the extreme size disparity could complicate natural mating or gestation (e.g., if the pug is the dam, birthing a larger pup might be risky). Human-assisted breeding could overcome this, but it's discouraged due to welfare issues for the animals and offspring, which often inherit unpredictable traits like high energy, strong prey drives, and health problems.
- **No Known Pug-Wolf Examples**: Speculative discussions exist about what a pug-wolf hybrid might look like (e.g., a smaller wolf with a slightly shortened snout), but no documented real-world cases appear in records. Most wolfdog breeds involve larger dogs like German Shepherds or Huskies for better compatibility.

Wolfdog ownership is heavily regulated or banned in many areas due to safety risks, and breeding them is widely considered unethical. If you're asking out of curiosity about canine evolution, pugs were selectively bred from wolf ancestors over thousands of years for companionship traits, but that's a far cry from direct hybridization today.

>>41410581
Everyone has to eat something, that's how life works.
Catholics symbolically eat the body of Christ at every mass.
You aren't killing god by eating food.

>>41411386
>Short-Faced Bear and Giant Ground Sloth
literally just animals you missed my point completely
>Who knows what weird shit we eliminated in Eurasia before recorded history
still only animals.
My point is that the presupposition that humans randomly evolved from monkeys into technologically oriented megacity building species requires for this to be a normal occurrence. If this was a normal occurrence we should see animals evolving towards the use of tool and spoken written language at random points in the history of the planet. This has never been the case, and there is nothing to suggest this is even a trend to begin with, in fact animals only evolve to adapt to their climate, otherwise they remain stagnant in their own community behavior. If humans had ever preyed on another intelligent species we would have found remain of said intelligent species, remains that imply cultural development, we only find remain of our ancestors.
This is the thing that evolution theory fails to explain and therefore evolution is fake and gay until we have an answer to this.

>>41413198
You aren't killing God by killing and eating other humans

Bump

>>41414419
No, but you're potentially committing an act of evil which may have consequences for you in the end. Everyone with a functional IQ understands the difference between good and evil, you get good feelings from seeing acts of good and negative feelings from acts of evil. Unprovoked murder against the innocent is an act of evil.

>>41414863
Yes and I'd say for all those reasons it's wrong to slit a pig's throat for a sandwich.

>>41414901
Is it wrong to eat a carrot? Pigs and humans are different species.
Humans and carrots are a different species.

>>41414913
I think species is basically made up and doesn't exist.
Did two of my ancestors who it would've been moral for me to turn into sandwiches give birth to one of my ancestors who it would've been immoral for me to turn into a sandwich?

>>41414913
Carrots don't have a mind

>>41414926
Can you say that for definite? Maybe they're aware in ways that we haven't yet understood.

>>41414957
No it's an assumption I can't know anyone but myself is conscious I assume other humans are conscious and I assume other mammals and birds are conscious based on biology and behavior and stuff like Cambridge declaration of consciousness.
Animals must eat multiple pounds of plants to make one pound of meat vegans kill less plants.
It's possible plants are conscious but the only subjective experience they could have is light and dark. Why should I care about that? Pigs can experience suffering and well-being and I care about those experiences

>>41414926

Anonymous 11/04/25(Tue)09:34:51 No.41414926>>41414957
>>41414913
Carrots don't have a mind

>>41414311
>literally just animals
The biggest smartest animals. You’re missing MY point. There’s no room for another animal to evolve to be smart, there wasn’t ever since humans first learned to throw.
Also birds use tools. Ants and Bees build cities. Whales have complicated songs that should absolutely be considered a basic language. All of this evolution is happening right in front of us, we just got here first. Nothing that humans do is special or unique we are just the best at it.

Bump

Bump

Bump

Bump

>>41385898
>god of the gaps
Thankyou for making this concession. By accepting evolution you have further pushed back the relevance of God.

>>41418141
The only good argument against theism is the problem of evil

>>41385863 (OP)
Humans are part god, part animal. Gene spliced. When they say we evolved from apes it is only a half-truth. No evidence of one species evolving into another but if we come from two put together it makes more sense.

>>41418755
When did this happen? Proto humans have existed for hundreds of thousands of years

>>41385863 (OP)
You're right
All creatures, minerals and elements are a holographic image of god. It's silly to think humans are special

>>41385863 (OP)
Have you ever seen any of these fossils? Why aren't there still apes that are further back than us, but more advanced than chimps? Wake up and realize that most of biology is fake and almost every fossil is faked, including dinosaurs.

>>41418779
I think believing all conscious animals are made in the image of God makes more sense

Bump

>>41385863 (OP)
A man makes an image of himself out of clay

The clay goes through many phases, and starts off not looking human at all

Then, as the man gets closer and closer ro perfecting his form, thr sculpture looks more and more human.

Does that answee your question?

>>41385863 (OP)
>we wuz every animal n shieeet

>>41386024
>i dont know when a puddle become a lake
when a fish can live in its called a lake.

>>41420983
unless you built it yourself, then its apond*

>>41385863 (OP)
>me (carpolestes) minding my own business as a rattatta for 15 million years