Thread 41396660

could afterlife and reincarnation both be true at the same time

>>41396660 (OP)
most hindus and buddhists believe in afterlifes anyway,

>>41396677
it just aint eternal, but nirvana/moksha is

>>41396660 (OP)
Reincarnation technically is an afterlife, its life after death. But I think you are trying to discern between reincarnation and something else I.e. heaven.

I don’t think the something else is heaven, the concept is metaphysically contradictory and doesn’t make sense.

However if we say that:
* Time is emergent and relational – Consciousness perceiving change is what gives rise to subjective time
* Consciousness is emergent – it arises from interactions and correlations in complex systems.
* Consciousness exists on a spectrum – from low awareness to high awareness
* Consciousness happens moment by moment – each now exists as the system integrates changes.
* Consciousness is hierarchical – micro-systems can be nested within macro-systems
* Consciousness experiences time at its own resolution – each system perceives moments at a speed relative to its internal processes.

Then I think we set up a possibility for both reincarnation and something else. If consciousness can emerge from a system with the right properties, and that system can either be nested in a greater whole (living tissue of our body for example) or it can be made of many conscious systems (you), then we just need something of our consciousness to survive after death in order to reintegrate.

If a soul does exist, some foundational level of awareness that survives biological death, then I don’t see why it couldn’t reintegrate into another biological host (reincarnation) but also I think there’s a possibility of non-integration or even ascending into something more complex.

>>41397354
So higher-consciousness people go to better planes, and less enlightened people go to worse planes — or this plane again?

>>41398131
> higher-consciousness = better planes
> lower consciousness = worse planes

No I don’t think it means that specifically. If a fundamental awareness exists (soul) and it integrates into other systems, it’s likely for survival. It’s like adding an extra life in a video game, it’s an additional layer of protection.

If we think of what consciousness would look like at a level more complex then human beings, it would be many humans forming a collected consciousness, sorta like looking at a beehive or ant colony and noticing it functions as a single organism. So a family for example, a community, a society, a nation, or even a planet wide biosphere to include every living thing on the planet.

There’s different levels of group consciousness that forms and we have a base instinct from our soul to seek socialization for this reason. It’s just an extension of multicellular evolution. Perhaps through communal belief, religions actualize their deity through this process, like souls of many being nested in a greater consciousness that forms. I would call that ascension.

However without ascension or transfer, I’d assume it’s just reincarnation. Although one may avoid this as well, and in that case perhaps a disembodied consciousness latches on where it can to remain coherent, if not dissipate altogether.

>>41396660 (OP)
Yes very much true and some evil people and religions will pervert it.

>>41399252
But where is the third option?

>>41399356
The third option is we solve time travel and rescue everyone from history and bring them all back as a species, united, no matter how long it takes to save someone and bring them around into the fold.

This Universe has billions of galaxies, we can make it into a paradise, we can rise to the light of the stars.
Why would there exist billions of galaxies, with billions of stars in each galaxy, just to die and move onto.....another universe.....I am just saying....

Hell is being passed over and not unfrozen in time and brought back to life through mastery of time, not being able to co exist with everyone else unfrozen in time.....and being left behind......or an entire world never making it, and having no one to come assist them or judge them worthy after attempts to redirect the flow and course of....time Dr. Freeman? Is it that time already?

Billions of worlds to explore, turn into paradises, other species to help ascend, or guide on a better path, introduce new words into their vocabulary like "Forgiveness" instead of "Stab" and "Kill"....sigh....

I mean yall really think you die and just auto bots roll out of this universe, as if this entire universe is just a pile of junk to discard, unworthy of you?
Yall are on that cloud 9 slop huh?
Harps and shit.
I forgive yall for being such morons

Definitely.
I believe that if you get bored in the afterlife you can choose to reincarnate here just for fun.

>>41396660 (OP)
I don't see why not. First possibility that comes to mind is that "you", your very basal soul, reincarnates but the persona you developed while you were here lives on in the aether somehow. In this way, I guess you'd be able to contact your past selves. Whether or not you'd listen to yourself is another matter I guess kek. Decent inspiration to be someone you would listen to later on if you found yourself vulnerable.

>>41396660 (OP)
chainsaw man suggests there’s 4 options when you die
food for thought

>>41396660 (OP)
Yeah I think that's called a pure land.

>>41399356
The 3rd option is probably being reincarnated as male and female in every skin color and every different type of religion and maybe even atheist realizing that you’re actually god and realizing you’re satan as well. and then possible turn into a diamond that’s probably why we have so many transgenders in the world today nobody really knows If god is female or male. That is probably one of the last steps to understanding the afterlife and the meaning of life.

>>41399555
Something tells me I've already made that mistake once before.

>>41399862
What gets me is when Christcucks say Christianity doesn't teach reincarnation, like nigga wtf do you think being "born again" means? It means to literally re-incarnate. I swear talking to christkikes is like in The Life of Brian where his followers keep asking him "tell us, oh lord, how shall we go away?" like uhhhh quit following me and leave me alone obviously duh

>>41399555
There seems to be many explanations as to why we reincarnate, alternating between being more or less voluntary, which is why I'm siding with Sakyamuni Buddha and call bullshit on this Mr bones wild ride. There's nothing to attain.

>>41399837
This. Even Hindus have concepts of reincarnating into heavenly or hellish realms (swargaloka and yamaloka).

>>41401826
is there a swagloka

>>41396660 (OP)
Yes. Look into Ian Stevenson's work on reincarnation. It's somewhat common for children to remember their past lives, remember heaven, remember making the choice to come back to Earth, and then being incarnated again.

Before anyone denies it, the stories of the children are falsifiable claims. Several times they were able to reunite the children with their old families who are still alive and have the children confirm things that nobody else could have possibly known. They often also have birthmarks at the places where they received a grievous injury in the previous life which led to their death.

There are also about 2500 recorded cases in Stevenson's work, so it's not some weird statistical anomaly. It's been proven by every scientific measure. As in, reincarnation and the afterlife are not up for debate anymore for anyone that considers themself to be a rational person that accepts reason and (substantial) evidence

Just go on YouTube and type in "reincarnation case" and you'll get tons of videos on it

>>41401359
Christianity is the best religion to follow for normal people I recommend reading other religions books such as the Vedas or Quran if you want to know more about religion or religious people. I would say the Quran is more easy to follow as it is a monotheist religion very much similar as to Christianity as they only believe there is one god but the vedas is different as they in believe in multiple gods and worship multiple gods you will find amazing and scary things in those books as well as the Bible. The vedas does scare me as it talks about the fiend who smears the flesh and blood of cattle human and horse flesh on himself and as well as spell casting which deeply disturbs me because it’s the official religious book. I am more disturbed by the Vedas than the Bible or Quran

>>41396660 (OP)
Isn't that the default stance of mahayana, the most popular flavour of buddhism?

White light is the soul trap, gold light is the afterlife.

>>41403880
Ima put some swagloka in your mouth, baby boy. Open up.

Is there an easy to filter all frogpost OP threads?

>>41396660 (OP)
They are according to most cosmologies involving the latter - the reincarnation. After all, in many religious and spiritual practices the whole point is to develop sufficiently so that you're not bound by cycle of reincarnation anymore - which means there has to be existence outside of living as an incarnated person.

>>41407101
No.
It's just a popular meme image of little meaning - stop being a bitch and get over it.

>>41396660 (OP)
Reincarnation and afterlives are not real. The body is a vessel for consciousness and once the body is gone so is the consciousness associated with it, FOREVER. Nobody will judge you and you aren't going anywhere after, you simply cease to exist. They can create unlimited humans on the other hand so life will never stop existing here on earth. The creation is eternal and the creator can experience himself eternally, you are not on the other hand.

>>41407123
People strive for reality and competition. There is a brief afterlife but then you are reincarnated somewhere where shits real.

>>41396660 (OP)
> It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
> 1 Corinthians 15:44

> Whom have I in heaven but you?And earth has nothing I desire besides you.
> Psalm 73:25
Satan’s world of deep unhappiness is essentially corrupt is a truism evident at life’s every turn. Everything decays. Nothing good lasts. Sin and evil are ubiquitous. And not too far down the road in every individual life lies the grave, the reward and legacy awaiting us all, no matter how blissful or disappointing our lives have been in the interim. Only God is truly meaningful here on earth, if we would but search for Him. Only Jesus Christ offers a solution to the futility of life and the inevitability of death, if only we would believe in Him. Only on the other side of this life is there true meaning, true fulfilment, true and lasting happiness, when we are at last re-united with the God who loved us enough to sacrifice His Son on our behalf, if only we have chosen Him in this present life over the deceptive vanities of the devil’s world. Until that time, like our first parents Adam and Eve before us, we have been left in this strange and alien world where the blinding reality of God is largely obscured from view, revealed almost exclusively in His Word to those who seek Him out. Until that time, we wait for something better as homeless wanderers in a world which finds our perspective and our hope worthless, even idiotic. But by our faith and the actions that faith produces, we show the world that we are not of it, do not love it, and acknowledge that we have no true part in it – except for the God who is the focus and the object of our love all the days of our sojourning here in the devil’s inhospitable desert

>>41407158
>Sin and evil are ubiquitous.
Stopped reading your stupidity there.

Sin is one concrete thing.
Bad is one concrete thing.
Evil is one concrete thing.