What makes BJJ culture so insufferable compared to other martial arts?

Brazilians

>>213329 (OP)
BJJ’s initial success in MMA is to blame. That, and the nature of BJJ being “soft” compared to striking or wrestling. It attracted the wrong kind of person.

>>213335
firstchy postchy bestchy postchy

>>213329 (OP)
It's the popular thing right now. If something is popular, it will inevitably attract its own fair share of morons, who are inevitably the loudest and most obnoxious

>>213329 (OP)
It's high school locker room culture but expanded

>>213389
it's the reason why bjj is such a revolving door
that level of trash talk and horrible interaction doesnt happen mostly in other martial arts

>>213390
everyone is scared of the bjj guy because of ufc

no one is scared of the judo guy till the orange belt fuckes up the seoi nage, injures your shoulder mid throw because they're panicking and slams you onto concrete and causes your head to crack open because of the interia of the throw

>>213391
>everyone is scared of the bjj guy because of ufc
I don't think that's true at all, it has always been the least popular aspect of MMA and has been a joke since the 00s
It was so normalcore even the simpsons made fun of it in 2012
https://youtu.be/r8q6vTijil0?si=a0vV-xM16bgZgtzi
Just the other night all of these Brazilians I was hanging out with (including a literal gay couple) were laughing at their friend for doing jiujitsu because it's so gay
"That wouldn't really work in a fight thought, right?"

And it's my contention any time a big strong guy gets "humbled" is because his cardio is shit from only weight lifting and once you're tired a twink can do whatever he wants to you
It's not because the techniques are effective

>>213329 (OP)
Normies

>>213406
well if he could do judo he should.
But judo is very far and few the old guard that runs all the schoold are dying out.
the average of them is like in their 70s

>>213568
True, this one time one of the judo teachers who's in his 70s was in the locker room getting changed and dropped his pants revealing the fact he doesn't wear underwear under his gi, along with this saggy heavy set of balls that was like 2 clementines in a tube sock
And he said the old judo masters don't wear anything under their gi either

And it's like breh that's just a cultural thing because Japan didn't use underwear 200 years ago. Put on some shorts bro

>>213580
Gotta have that deep ballast for good kuzushi

>>213580
fucking kek

>>213374
well here's another thing.
Compared to other grappling arts bjj while difficult to become a black belt has a low entry point for it compared to other martial arts since it's entirely dependent on the bjj gym you go to.
While it's unheard of to get your black belt and suck shit at bjj it's entirely possible.
The governing body for bjj simply cares more about making money in the now than they do about making sure the sport isnt viewed as a cesspit 10 or 20 years from now.
You could be a literally ex convicted rapist and get your black belt in bjj and open a bjj gym since you dont really need any approval from the governing body like you would in Judo.
There is also no registry to see if someone is legit. You can literallt just walk in and say "im a blue belt" make up some lie about how you dont wanna roll yet because you wanna get to know people etc etc and they would only have two options:
believe it
or tell you to leave for not wanting to prove it.

Almost everything is word of mouth and it's not like doing these things like making a registry would be hard.

>>213585
Hell, ive read stories in reddit of all places of blue belts opening their own gyms and everyone just saying to leave because that's absurd

>>213586
ive even read stories of blue belts teaching classes in front of their black belt instructors which is something ive experienced first hand myself.
bjj has a lot of issues that it needs to resolve if it wants to be taken seriously outside of the martial arts community. Because even in it it's talked about as this taboo topic.

Also what the fuck are "mat enforcers"? I've never seen this in Judo or Wrestling.

>>213639
People who think they’re hot shit for smashing a white belt for doing spazzy white belt things or for damaging their fragile ego in some arbitrary way.

>>213639
bjj is so jee of a martial art the classes arent even structured to some extent
the professors dont even teach shit properly to new members they just let other guys go home ham.

so like>>213643
says
mat enforcers exist to stop spazzy shit and bullies

they're like cops of the mat since the instructors are too busy browsing facebook or somehit.
Go into a bjj gym
once the instructor lays eyes on someone else he wont take them off or once he opens facebook he wont get off.
In other martial arts it's the opposite
the instructor is constantly looking back and worth during sparing ti make sure everyone is doing things correctly

mat enforcers obviously dont work because if they did mat bullied would be completely unheard of

>>213649
>jee

new*

>>213639
also mat enforcers dont exist in judo because the ceiling for teaching is high.
As a shodan you're expected to be profecient enough to teach judo.
In BJJ you could be a master of specific shit and still get your black belt. Some bjj skills even encourage you to get good at a specific guard and have decent offense.
You have very basic offense and defense and still be a black belt in bjj.
It all depends on the school.
You could be a shit black belt in both bjj and judo. But in judo you'd get some eyebrows raised in bjj you'd just be the master of a guard and specialize in some oddly specific offense and no one would bat an eye. Being really good at landing kimuras or arm bars for example. it all depends on the school you go to

>>213677
forgot my point entirely.
Basically it's expected for the sensei in judo to actually be good enough to enforce if he needs to.
In BJJ the professor could be an expert at specific shit. There are blue belts out there that are stronger and better than their instructors but respect rank anyway.

>>213678
you could go your entire life without competeing like john danaher and no one will bat an eye or even question if what you're teaching bjj wise is even effective. I mean you could do the same in judo. But who would you rather take judo instruction from since competitve players can obviously prove their minute technique works

>>213580
>saggy heavy set of balls that was like 2 clementines in a tube sock
What a mental image that is

>>213639
I don't have any firsthand experience with this but from what I've heard, if someone acts like a retard during sparring and/or endangers themselves or their partners, a mat enforcer is the guy you send to "humble" them.
So in a sense yes, they're bullies, their jobs is to bully people into conforming to certain social norms and rules, namely training etiquette, or leaving. Something of a "if you make sparring bad for others, I'm going make sparring bad for you" kind of deal

>>213753
great way to my your bjj gym a revolving door

>>213758
Possibly, but I can understand why some people feel that a designated tard wrangler could be needed. Obviously they shouldn't bully complete beginners, bur rather people knowingly going too hard, ripping subs and generally being assholes on the mat

>>213639
I've seen ringers at Judo schools before, same as boxing, but it's less an issue of these days because assholes don't show up to try and fight school owners. It's just the guy who kicks the shit out of you when you FAFO.

>>213813
most of thise ringers in judo are bjj guys coming in to "improve their standup"
only to feel like absolute dipshits when they get beaten by a green belt
then they never come back and stick to bjj

>>213814
Sorry if I wasn't clear. The ringer will be from the gym, not the rando walking in the door.

>>213329 (OP)
A lot of it is probably the belt system

>>214415
i disagree, go into a toxic gym and you're gonna have same colored belts trying to assert dominance over each other and make white belts know their place.
White belts trying to be the alpha white belt
blue belts trying to be the alpha blue belt
etc
i think the cultural problem stems from the lax rules of the sport attracting a bunch of meat heads. Just look at the recent thing in the bjj thread
some world champ is threatening to kill gordon ryan on instagram and is doing a bunch if unhinged crazy shit.
That stuff from what i can tell is a bjj specific thing as in any other martial art the governing body for that art would have him permanately banned from participating in the art, his rank stripped and the ability ti open up any schools taken away. Similar to the IJF taking away putins 8th degree black belt.

But the IBJJF cares more about money which is why it costs $400 a month to maintain a registry profile with them and why the martial art is so hard stuck in the fucking old times when you'd find out who is and isnt legit through sparring or word of mouth

>>214431
a lot of the culture stems from the founders of the martial art
the gracies.
A bunch of literal criminal meat heads.
one of their family members lost to a wrestler so they cornered him in an ally and broke is leg or arm to a point where the guy cant wrestle anymore
that was in the early days.


They also hated sakuraba so much they'd send like 4 gracies to his matches to
intimedate him. only to have one gracie fight and lose.
Some guy opened up a bjj gym right across from a gracie once(anecdotal story) the gracie responded by assaulting him at a tournament. Renzo got arrested for beating the literally crap out of some guy after he submitted him and knocked him unconcious.

>>214432
and professors sleeping with their students of having sex with peoples wifes for being "the alpha" is another thing that also happens

this shit only happens in bjj from what i can tell. Any other martial art and you'd get your ass kicked in some shape or form weather it's getting everything stripped from you or genuinely getting your ass kicked and then getting everything stripped from you.

BJJ from what i can tell is probably the one martial art where someone can make a half threaten about making you their bitch and get away with it

>>214433
The thing is that the only relevant governing body for BJJ is incompetent and the most prestigious tournaments are organized by third parties, which takes away the ability to efficiently gatekeep retards. And I'm pretty sure that any attempt to fix it would just push people away more in the end.

>>214432
>>214433
Yeah Brazilian culture is a bit macho and there's a reason why pitboys (BJJ thugs) proliferate so much. I mean their whole art is about challenge matches and dojo storming back in the early decades so much that it creates an mentality to be a low-impulse meathead.

Granted I hate McDojos and black belt factories so I can respect BJJ being no bullshit but there's a middle ground between Rex Kwon Do and be a curb-jawing asshole backed up by your boys.

>>214434
This is why BJJ won't be in the Olympics anytime soon. That and you can't have a nationalistic name for a sport; same reason why Muay Thai got rebranded Muaythai by the Thai authorities to try and circumvent it.

>>214438
if a black belt in bjj doesnt know basic takedowns or takedowns in general and pulls guard right away and knew a weird ass guard as a low ranking colored they went to a mcdojo. The problem is mcdojo jiu jitsu works so your average joe wont be able to tell the difference between actual bjj and a dude guard pulling his way to black

>>214439
I think that's a good thing, Olympics has a tendency to fuck up combat sports. I'm pretty sure they're the reason for why modern Judo has no strikes and leg locks, despite them being present originally

>>214440
The guard pulling butt scooting never did a takedown in his life is the real bjj at this point
That's the standard practice

A cowardly practice that was frowned upon even 100 years ago, and they decided to make it their identity

This is why American jiujitsu is the future, because unlike Brazil we already had a strong built in grappling pedigree, so we have been and will continue to leverage that to take jiujitsu to new heights while the monkeys lay on their backs and manipulate the rules to favor them

>>214446
The judo leglock ban was a pragmatic and at the time reasonable one, 1889 was the year of the ban and it has everything to do with at that time there was no method to surgically repair damaged ligaments
We think of it as a trivial thing many athletes will deal with today but back then popping someone's acl meant crippling them for life

>>213329 (OP)
>professor
>play
>game
>physical chess
>humble
I know there are many more meme words like these that nobody uses outside of BJ jitsu, but these are the ones off the top of my head that give me the ick

>>214674
To be fair, Professor is also used to describe savate instructors and Brazil is a Western culture like France so I don't see the hang-up.

Play, game, and physical chess reflect on what rolling in BJJ is all about. It's using kinesiology on the mat where you're pitted against someone whose as versed as you are and seeing how it unfolds.

Humble I will concede because too many shitheads ruin the BJJ community and image. Even today Braziian society looks down on BJJ as entitled punks who start fights at clubs and in the streets. And there's a lot of instructors who smile and approve of such activities.

>>214447
Yeah US scholastic wrestling + BJJ is a great combo

>>214447
You see I'm firmly in the camp that everyone has to train 50/50 in stand-up throws/takedowns and then ground-fighting. You can have a personal bias for stand-up or ground grappling in terms of preference which I call the 60/40 rule; meaning you can specialize a little more in one area over the other. But you damn well have to be at LEAST a BJJ brown belt on the ground and at least a Judo 3rd dan on your feet.

If the situation allows it, you can pull guard because don't let opportunity squander but don't neglect good trips and tosses.

>>214439
The bullshit I saw in Olympic karate about disqualifying the competitor who knocked out his opponent with a kick makes me shudder at the idea of an Olympic BJJ or an Olympic Muay Thai.

>>214440
This can be easily filtered out if the BJJ coach or their students don't compete in some form. That's the bottleneck to weed out bullshit artists. If I don't see them compete in NAGA or any credible BJJ/sub-grappling tournament, then you know it's mcdojo.

>>214697
The karate thing was a total soccer tier flop too
People who get knocked out don't stumble to the ground and stare up at the ceiling on their back like they're making a snow angel
That's what a KO from someone that's never seen a KO before would do if you told them to act
We know what KOs look like
Its either a limp crumple or a stiff timber

>>214674
>professor
Maybe the word is used differently in Brazil, but because of its weight as a serious academic title, I really dislike its use in the BJJ context. You may as well call yourself a doctor then

>>214697
>This can be easily filtered out if the BJJ coach or their students don't compete in some form
There are plenty of BJJ people who compete all the time and are successful that can't do takedowns.

>>214708
I know but that's a problem with BJJ schools focusing on sport rules. Pre-90s BJJ actually had them practice throws and takedowns taken from judo, sambo, various wrestling styles. Again the rules are what really shaped Judo and BJJ into what they are. Pre-IJF Judo had plenty of throws/trips as well as submissions and groundfighting.

If they have shitty stand-up but know how to do proper sweeps from the bottom, pass various guards, get their hooks in, mastered the fundamentals instead of focusing on fancy shit like berimbolo, then that's more understandable than what >>214446 described.

It's the same problem I have with judo schools that don't take enough time to drill newaza. I'm a firm believer that there should be at least 3-4 hours of matwork each week for a non-competitive practitioner. For BJJ, they should at least spend the 3-4 hours weekly on single legs, double legs, foot sweeps, body lock throws, ankle picks, hip tosses.

We're gonna come to a point where the more complete sub-grappler whose well-versed in stand-up techniques from wrestling, judo, sambo, etc. combined with BJJ's emphasis on guardwork and fighting off your back and jockeying for positional control will trounce the 1-dimensional butt floppers.

>>213677
Judo has an entirely different culture when it comes to sparring. Respect is more valued and you bow before starting. BJJ is just cycling through guys and doing fist bumps.

>>214415
Judo invented the belt system.

>>214431
>Similar to the IJF taking away putins 8th degree black belt.
Unless I missed something new they stripped his titles and positions, not his 8th dan belt. He did have honorary black belts stripped from other arts but his actual earned judo black belt is still intact.

>>215735
>BJJ is just cycling through guys

gayest thing i have ever heard

>>214701
If the tales are true trad JJ isnl developed from bonesetter know how, so it would just be going round full circle at that point

>>214700
Shevchenko got smashed square in the face by grasso and did a wonderful breakfall
There's at least a handful of people like Charles Oliveira and others who, when they practice good fundamentals, shut down a pin from knockdown just by going dead cockroach and inviting the opponent to invite them to stand back up

>>214674
>humble
>"I AM BUT A MERE HUMBLE MARTIAL ARTIST"

>most toxic fucking person you've ever met

>>213406
Why don't you just give it a shot and find out for yourself, I guarantee you'll be disillusioned immediately if they let you roll on the first day

>>213329 (OP)
>What makes BJJ culture so insufferable compared to other martial arts?
the fact that it allows women

>>220454
Are there any mainstream martial arts that don't?

>>220467
Sumo. Women can only compete in amateur sumo and literally aren't even allowed onto the clay for pro sumo.

>>220474
it was the most based thing I ever saw when that guy got KOd from a headbutt and was unconscious for a few minutes, and a lady doctor went into the ring to help and they made an announcement on the speakers telling her to get out of there

>>213329 (OP)
Nerds who turned it into a spreadsheet. All their "systems" sucks all the art out of it. As an oldfag (started in 2004) the idea was to train to have the best response to every puzzle thrown at you by an opponent. Not to go in with some blueprint you have to follow to win the same way over and over. Same spirit that ruined MMA and why Pride was superior.

>>220492
>the idea was to train to have the best response to every puzzle thrown at you by an opponent.
>Not to go in with some blueprint you have to follow to win the same way over and over.
How are those two things different?

>>213649
> since the instructors are too busy browsing facebook or somehit.
Literally my old "professor"

>>213329 (OP)
Sport that has no irl use unless someone closes to grapple range with a plan that does not involve punching your face, grabbing your leg, or stabbing you pretending to be a martial art

>>213329 (OP)
Realizing all you need to do is hold someone to make them stop fighting and then convincing everyone this is considered a "win".

>>213335
Wrong

>>213329 (OP)
Nerds and hippies

>>221480
Huh, wuh? Martial arts are the only "sports" that have real-life application.

>>221480
All sports have some "irl use", even if at times esoteric or even only partial
But your stupid for thinking that should be a reason

>>225270
https://youtu.be/r4ZW4389EeM?si=jlakoWD6NHutWoOQ

>>213329 (OP)
the gayness. people feel like they have to take it seriously because grapple with sweaty men and rub their cocks on each other for multiple hours a week.
everything else about the culture is in service to the inherent homosexuality of it. that's why people like the BTeam fellas so much cause they are open about how gay it is and treat it like a joke.

i have no idea, 90% of my gym are fucking freaks. its like their two modes are irritated/curt, or someone brings up a rogan-esque topic and none of them shut the fuck up all trying to one-up each other on knowledge of vitamins and how doctors are trying to get you man. they are like all the same guy. there is a really old Brazilian black belt who is the fucking man though, just smilin and wants to roll with whoever, same intensity with everyone and wins regardless.

not sure why its so rare a good martial artist knows who machine girl is and has played god hand and posts on 4chan. I mean those things are rare to begin with i guess. I have this general theory that I cant quite articulate that well, but its like, toughness and normieness feel like they overlap unfortunately. if you're going to end up tough, the dominoes were probably already falling into a specific way that was going to make you a specific brand of retard normie. Like you'll never see an mma fighter's walkout song be something by Evaboy. Its going to be Back in Black by ACDC and it was always going to be that. The dominoes fell that made him tough, and those are the same dominoes that make him a normie.

>>225271
that was just a minute of heavyweights with average grappling that allowed lewis to get to dogfight and then he'd stand, or, he'd feel an improper weight distribution and sweep during bottom side, which by the way is all still jiu jitsu, its just counter jiu jitsu. I can assure you if you put gordon ryan in that exactly same position against lewis, he would turn lewis into tiny particles of dust. he would probably purposefully abort whatever top position he had and dive for his legs and tear his knee apart with a heel hook

>>225415
you know, most of the time i feel like its a pretty straight environment, but one time there was a tiny black guy that approached me after class and kept asking if i needed a workout partner and that he was new to the area or something he was 100% gay lol

>>225475
yeah it was i was just posting that to be a dick

>>225474
>I have this general theory that I cant quite articulate that well
Intelligence has a lot of overlap with rationalization, which people use to avoid discomfort and adversity. However, it doesn't take a lot of intelligence to rationalize. It just takes intelligence to pretend that your rationalization is any better than someone else's.

>>213639
School sanctioned bullies. Most of whom literally just start power tripping use the position to chase whatever little pussy their is in their dojo.

>>225576
Enforcers are necessary, some people don't listen when spoken to reasonably
When that happens they need to get beat down and buck broken until they fall in line or leave

>>225581
dumb ass mentality that will get you killed if you do it to the wrong person

>>225583
It has to be done
This one kid for example doesn't listen, he likes to talk shit and always argues and makes excuses when he's told to do something
He's on everyone's last nerve so use of force is authorized

>>225591
you have a point i still think it's dumb.
it should honestly be used as a last resort if they dont wanna quit bjj but also dont wanna behave and you dont wanna kick them out or call the cops.

>>213585
Belts are fake and gay and I would argue to just get rid of them. The blue belt is good as a motivational tool but the rest are there to mainly stroke egos. No other combat sports have an experience ranking system and they do just fine. If you want to know how good someone is just roll and train with them.

>>213587
A blue belt teaching a class isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as their instruction/regurgitation is good who cares. A lot of learning comes from the guy with a years more experience telling you something simple and basic like "frame here instead of there" mid-roll. I'm not saying anyone should open up their own gym but everyone's unique experience can be shared. When I started my coach was a purple belt (it was 2017 though so not many black belts in my area) and none of us beginners gave a fuck.

>>225686
The main problem with ranks is you wear them
If it was just like a record kept and you got a certificate it's fine

They say don't pay attention to rank, pretend its not there and not important, but also keep it on display at all times

>>225686
>>225690
in bjj rank doesnt matter until you hit purple by purple you should be skilled enough to give decent advice.
If you're a competitive blue you should be able to givr decent advice too in judo rank doesnt matter until brown or black because by green your judo should be starting to flourish
but there are a lot of purples in bjj that think they're masters already

>>213329 (OP)
Not my experience, I trained at a BJJ gym for 6 months about 5 days a week. It was awesome, had a great atmosphere, lovely people, and I loved the learning and stimulation.

>>225591
>>225613
I got the shark tank treatment on my first day in a BJJ class which I thought was pretty rough, I was getting slammed onto the ground by instructors and purple belts and they were subbing every 10 seconds. For context though, this was in the military, and I am much bigger and stronger than the guys I was rolling with so they saw me throwing those guys around somewhat. I can understand the idea of breeding humility into people, curtails that sadistic edge and bullying culture, I guess you just have to make sure that it's applied evenly and fairly, and you can do that just by making people roll with higher belts.

>>225711
In my gym rank does matter
>White is wild card, roll with at your own peril
>Blue is fodder for purples
>Brown is either coasting to black or actively competing to get to black soon
>Black has the privilege of Brazilian tapping but we have a few old school submission machines

>>213329 (OP)
it was completely different 20 years ago. the places that avoided importing brazilian politics and old feuds were a lot better. went to compete in sweden a few times back then and they had so many schools that had rivalries with each other and people getting limbs broken in tournies because it wasnt ok to tap to someone from so and so school it seemed

>>213587
my first teacher was a blue belt. didnt have a single black belt in my country at the time. hes a black belt now, some of the new guys last time i went there would do the whole "OS!!" and bow to the mat shit and i would have to try to not laugh out loud, no idea where they got that from

>>225881
ive almost never seen someone who needed the shark treatment and some of those even made the change before it got handed out to them!

>>213758
if you have a lot of skilled, strong and well adjusted guys at a gym these guys will fall in line very quickly or leave without anyone needing to hand out any special form of punishment

>>225896
>reddit tier bjj memes
discarded