Why is it that whenever slavery in isekai is debated, the OP can do anything protagonist is suddenly powerless against systems?
They can topple evil kings, slay demon lords, own castles and win the people over but the second it's slavery "it can't be helped".
there's nothing wrong with owning little girls
What part of "it can't be helped" was unclear, Anon?
Slavery isn't inherently bad, many great empires were built because of slavery and all started to decline when slavery was abolished or minimized
>>279650565>>279650566>>279650568unfunny and you're pieces of shit
>>279650577Why aren't you a slave then?
>>279650577Good things coming out of bad things doesn't make the bad things any less reprehensible.
Your logic is flawed.
>>279650536 (OP)Anon doesn't know slavery has always happened through human history and still happens today. And I don't mean the stealthy state slavery, but direct ownership of people.
>>279650644Same argument could be made for plenty of things, like war, but I don't suppose you advocate nations start shooting and bombing one another the moment they slightly disagree.
You're a cretin.
>>279650536 (OP)Because dismantling a corner stone of an entire economic system and societal way of life involves dealing with far more intangible concepts like the economy and human nature at it's core and this goes for more than just the slave owners.
It's not isekai but this is a huge part of the plot in the Heroic Legend of Arslan. Not only do you have to change the laws of your country, you need the power to make others accept it, you need to make it so that the now free slaves can actually survive and thrive on their own. In some cases you need to make them even realize they WANT to be free in the first place. A pivotal moment early own sees the young prince slaying a master and then freeing his slaves only for said slaves to turn on the prince because they were so broken into the system that they accept their owner as benevolent. Ending slavery is a very complicated issue despite what your 4th grade history might tell you.
>>279650536 (OP)Because the system isn't held together by some supernatural force, but ordinary humans with ordiinary human evils. You can't exactly Detroit Smash the entire world economy to get them to stop enslaving people. It has to be gradual change from within.
>>279650705>>279650536 (OP)Some series do it well. Game of Thrones did it too, actually. Almost always (and this happened historically too) the solution was to simply pay the slaves, so that over time people got used to the idea, and by then slaves could build up some way to sustain themselves.
Historically, most slave owners treated their slaves either like employees anyway, or like friends, for the most part. Slaves were very expensive, so if you spent money on one, you better be damn sure you'd make a profit out of it, meaning, where possible, you'd allow them to be mostly content and even marry other slaves. I'm not talking about stuffing browns into ships headed to cotton plantations in the US, obviously.
>>279650536 (OP)If you mean trash tier isekai, the reason is so that the main character has easy access to cute girls who literally have no option other than to follow him. Also, they're naturally thankful to him for bringing them out of a literal barefoot jail cell, so they're likely thankful for him and easily want his dick.
For example, shit like pic related is pathetic wish fulfillment isekai drek.
>>279650867I mean if you're gonna lean into it as a fetish thing then there's something to be said for that so long as you're honest. Really I'd also make the argument that not every bit of fiction has make the hero want to change society for the better.
Owning a slave would be the first thing to do after I get isekai'ed
>>279650931What if the only available slaves are ugly old men? The cute young virgins would have either been snatched up already or be ridiculously expensive.
>>279650931I mean I can't say It'd be the top of my list either but the whims of the narrative take precedence
>>279650536 (OP)Tearing down a system funded by the elite and accepted by the people is extremely hard and requires decades or centuries worth of economic and social changes (maybe a war or two). Only retards think that "kill slave owner/slave trader = destroying slavery". Obviously most isekai are not that deep and slavery is just an excuse to have cute submissive girls that can satisfy the self insert protagonist's savior complex
Mushoku Tensei at least gets this right, Rudeus is powerless against the system and prefers avoiding it, though I guess he ultimately brings down slavery with his and Zanoba's creation of automatons, since they're much better than slaves. It'd be interesting if the sequel mentioned this.
>>279650954Use your cheat to get money somehow or just straight steal one, you're the main character of a shitty wish fulfillment story surely you can do it
>>279650983I feel like most people don't even realize what happened to the slaves after they were free. Some got happier endings but a lot of people ended up in working conditions and living arrangements that were just as bad if not worse.
>we human are equal
>fuck the tradition
>kill the king
>i-is that female slave YABBA DABBA DOO mr merchant let me buy 2
>>279650536 (OP)systems are hard to beat
superman could kill literally everyone on the planet, but would he be able to fix hyperinflation in a failing economy?
>>279650867Shieldbro is gonna hear this. I'll deliver the news to his panic room.
>>279650536 (OP)Because youre underage
>>279650536 (OP)they want slaves
>>279650536 (OP)>dismantling the system that enables you to buy waifuswhy are you gay?
>>279650705>Not only do you have to change the laws of your country, you need the power to make others accept it, you need to make it so that the now free slaves can actually survive and thrive on their own.Also, you need your country to be strong enough to survive on their own while working with the handicap of not having slaves.
Which is very difficult in a pre-industrial society like most isekai take place in.
Slavery can be "okay" if the story fully embraces the fantasy and never tries to be anything more than fetish bait. Pic related set itself to be just about the MC doing lewd things with his slaves and dungeon autismo, nothing more.
But some authors go full retard and try to have the MC being strong enough to topple kingdoms, but somehow the All-powerful MC can't stop slavery because....pick any bullshit reason. In real life slave rebellions were a constant thing, escaped slaves building their own hidden communities also happened constantly, some guys had the job of just hunting and destroying those communities in order to stop any slave from getting ideas. Thousands of slaves would rally and fight for your average isekai MC, just for the promise of freedom.
Rome would have dropped slavery instantly if some powerful unstoppable guy was going around putting every slave owner on a cross. America would have never embraced slavery if some mage was going around turning slaves owners and their families into burning pyres. Plenty of Isekai MC's have more power than that, but they refuse to do anything to stop slavery....because the author wants his story to be "serious stuff" and not just softcore porn like Isekai Meikyuu. Sorry, pick your lane and stick to it, either embrace the softcore porn route, or make your MC have enough dignity to not engage in slavery.
>>279650536 (OP)Nothing wrong with giving purposeless dregs a reason to live. The true state of mankind is a listless biological automaton only pursuing their basest instincts. Their intelligence gives them the illusion of free will, but in reality, their cognitive abilities give them a limited degree of prescience so that they can consider more of the possibilities, I.E their brains give them more options to pursue biological imperatives, but they are still bound by their animalistic instinct.
Humans willingly enslave themselves to god, obeying the every command of a higher being. This is called "religion". The slave master is essentially a higher being on the corporeal plane; he or she is the superior of the slave in every way. Superior wealth, superior status, superior intellect, superior ability, and superior in their design. There is a reason the slave is a slave and the master is their master. The pyramids would never have been built had the power of the lesser been congregated and focused by their betters. Slavery gives meaning to the meaningless, who would otherwise live a listless existence, as is their nature.
Look at how the dregs exist even now, in the modern era, where slavery has been abolished. They are not "free" but rather they are still slaves, but now with the illusion of freedom to match their illusion of free will. They are slaves in a much larger system which exploits them to derive political power and provide GDP, while the political and social elite sponge their combined meager efforts to live lives of opulence and absolute security. Ignorance is truly bliss, as they say. Instead of turning a wheel, bound and chained, they are free to walk on a vast, open treadmill, turning the cogs of the machine known as "modern society". They are the free-range chickens to those confined in their 1x1 pens; their walls have expanded, but not disappeared. They will still be slaughtered in the end for their meat, eaten by their betters.
>>279650536 (OP)Because it's hot.
>>279653843But the show that pic's from is the plainest most boring shit possible
>>279650536 (OP)Because banning slavery does absolutely fuckall about it for prudence sake;
>TL;DR>Capitalism obsoleted slaveryall lincoln did was hyping himself and the reepublicans for 30 years in a process that would have happened without killing 500K americans.
And bullshiting that the war wasn't about the independence of southern states.
Japs are smart eniugh ti realize this but not to articulate it since they are a shame based society ie. Extremely statist
Thus they handwave it away as
>It's good when the MC does it And the rare
>It's actually goodFrom the lefties
>>>>/pol/
>>279650536 (OP)>You can kill the man... but not the dream. Despite slavery being abolished and found reprehensible by majority of people it still exists in a new hidden form.
>>279650536 (OP)Because the economic and political superstructure guarantee the exploitation of the masses through toxic incentives
Studio Ghibli movies comment on this and most of the villains are just victims of their own circumstance & environment like Kushana
Irl you can't just topple a dictator because the systems that lead to him taking power will just lead to another dictator soon after. Impeaching a single corrupt politician will never fix the system that incentivized corruption itself.
Then again most Isekai isn't written well enough to explore this idea & the type to read Isekai probably don't want to be confronted with these topics
>>279653843You're kind of an idiot. You're trying to sound smart but you're stupid. Having a single OP soldier doesn't mean your entire army is going to be able to fight off everyone on all fronts. Having an OP leader doesn't mean you can provide for, protect and even lead and entire army. Thousands of slaves aren't going to rally because most of them are so broken they don't even realize it's an option. Slavery is an idea and you cannot punch an idea. And as for slave revolts, if you look at the long history of slavery itself? There really weren't that many.
>>279650536 (OP)That's an interesting approach. Some Isekai/Fantasy MCs are so ludicrously OP that they can reshape society however they see fit and no one in their verse would be able to do jack to stop them. Ending slavery should be a walk in the park for such characters. My guess is that at least from what I've seen from such show on clips is that usually MCs that have such power are usually uninterested in the affairs of the world they inhabit. They either want to live a quiet life or are too busy only helping people they like. Or are straight up villain protagonists that obviously have no interest in abolishing slavery. The MCs that are more proactive in helping social causes amusingly aren't that overpowered. Like the Shield Hero for example. He's quite powerful, just not enough to reshape society by force.
>>279653866you sound like a gigantic fucking loser please go outside and get a job anywhere that isn't fast food
I have a question. Why is this such a meme with people now? Why are people suddenly so obsessed with the idea of slavery needing to be abolished in every presented fiction? Yeah, we get that slavery is bad and shit in real life but this is fiction. None of these slaves are actually being oppressed and given it's long standing part of human history it's hardly weird that this kind of thing should be presented in fiction, especially in old world fantasy. But now you can even so much present it existing in the background without thin skinned retards constantly making a fuss over it. And often with such over simplified grade school perspectives.
>>279650954Isekai shows have this recurrent cliche that there's this incredibly cute and attractive slave girl that for some weird reason is undesirable and treated like a pariah even if she's perfectly healthy, stuff like animal ears or the kingdom suddenly agreed that white hair is a sin or something making it so only MC can hook up with her because no other guy will want to.
>>279653843"plainest" my ass. MC buys a slave for the sole purpose of pleasure and proceeds to have sex with her every episode. Enlighten me how often shows have the balls to commit to their trope this much.
>>279654754That's not just an isekai shit that's normal in most every avenue of fiction. Some librarian or shy nerdy girl will be some ultra hottie just because she let her hair down and took off her glasses and some how nobody really noticed. And that's in modern society. In a world based on pure classism some girl being of a lower standing being seen as lesser isn't too weird.
Assume you get warped through time to the 1600s or something
Assume you are on a decent enough socioeconomic position to afford some slaves
Would you
>A. Behave like a bleeding heart moralfag risking being ostracized, lynched, burned at the sake or some shit with very slim chances to actually change things because the world simply is not culturally ready for it
>B. Go along with it and enjoy having black slaves to tend your fields and a squad of native american/middle eastern/east asian maid slaves to clean the house, cook and provide sex 24/7
>>279654764That's literally all the show is about, guy goes to the dungeon, beats two trees, gets home to have sex with his very submissive slave that's basically his wife, that's every fucking episode, the sex becomes like a quota or a routine they have to fill, there's nothing daring or interesting about it, it's like spying on a random guy off the street
>>279654673Cry about it some more
>>279654638This argument only works for averagely shonen level powered MCs but Isekai has thrown in our faces MCs that can vanish armies in seconds, without even sweating. Such kind of OP MC can in fact face the battle on all fronts. Just destroy enough of their leaders and elite groups and soon all world superpowers will bow to you.
One of the interesting part of Death Note was that at first the US and world agencies went all out trying to stop Kira. When Light massacred the FBI agents the US basically stepped out but L brought some confidence back to keep the effort. But after he was also killed it wasn't long before the world governments essentially surrendered and just went along with Kira's demands for a few years until he was finally defeated by Near and Mello. Light bend the entire modern world to its knees with smarts and a book that kills people. There's a dozen Isekai protags vastly more powerful some which basically have Death Note powers without restrictions and they are often living in a medieval magical society.
>>279654885>watches slice of life isekai>complains its slice of life
>>279650536 (OP)Yeah, they just need to find the CEO of slavery and punch him
>>279650536 (OP)Slavery is a good thing
>>279654921It's not sol and if it was it was the shittiest sol ever made
>sex good, any show where people have sex is automatically goodplease, get some fucking standards
>>279654881Now imagine you're in that situation but you have the powers of a God that makes you unmatched and capable of evaporating the army of any kingdom with a single attack. What would stop you from ending slavery of very well reshaping society to your liking?
>>279654673But enough about yourself, faggot.
>>279654881Get slaves and then pay the slaves a little wage since I can afford it, it's basically like live in jobs
>>279654949Calm down, have sex.
>>279654957Imposing your will by force and fear, even in the goal of a noble cause, is the act of a tyrant.
>>279650536 (OP)>They can topple evil kingsI've lost count of how many isekai or party member or hero series where the MC gets BETRAYED by the King/Kingdom and the little cuck does nothing at all because Politics are the actual real superpower all along. Of course, the power of POLITICS immediately runs out afterwards and the people who did the BETRAYAL see everything they know and love go to hell because MC-kun is not there anymore.
So no it's not just slavery.
>>279654915those types of ultra-overpowered isekai MCs that can vanish armies tend to be summoned to deal with horrible demon lords that can also vanish armies in mere seconds, and the fate of humanity stands on the brink.
So they rarely have the time to deal with human slavery when there's a question about if humanity (and their allied races lke dwarves and elves) will survive the next month against the demon lord.
And once the demon lord threat is over, either the kingdom betrays the summoned superhero, or the superhero is teleported back to Earth and it was all just a dream and all his superpowers he earned in the fantasy world might be gone, so it doesn't matter anyway.
>>279654949How often do shows even have sex for you to act like this is a bad thing? I can literally count on my hand the amount of times an MC actually ends up having sex. But sure keep eating up wimpy cuck MCs cause thats become the standard nowadays
>>279650536 (OP)>He actually thinks slavery was ***abolished*** and it doesn't exist in the modern world anymoreKEKAROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>279654764Replied to the wrong person anon
>>279654744Americans, specially so white American leftists, and their unending white guilt savior complex.
>>279654989True. But it would effectively end slavery. It's less about being a saint and more about making the question why the invincible MC just don't fix the things he sees as evil when he clearly has the power to do so with minimal to no consequences. Vaporize the evil King and everyone that sides with him and make it clear that it was easy and one sidedly. Then have it known that everyone that joins your campaign will have your protection and support.
>>279654949>sex badFanservice sells for a reason. Go be a fag somewhere else
>>279655029Sex is not inherently a bad thing, adding a lot of sex and ignoring everything else is, especially when the sex is extremely boring and routinely.
Have you watched isekai meikyu or whatever it's called? If you think that crap is still interesting after the 5th episode or so I have nothing else to say to you
>>279655067>True. But it would effectively end slavery.It wouldn't though. People are still slave to their fear of retaliation. You're not making society better you're just making a clear line of consequence for an action you deem immoral. It doesn't fix the problem. sic semper tyrannis
>>279655017Not all the time. I've seen a MC summon a kill sat and vanish the Evil Demon Lord Army without effort. Some writers are just silly like that so every conflict in the show is artificial. Kinda like more serious One Punch Man. Evil forced only get to advance because MC is far away doing something else or is distracted in some way. But once he enters the picture the power fantasy demands that he stomps everything within seconds (minutes if the show feels like being dramatic or letting the secondary characters do something). It's boring as shit but it is what it is.
>>279655067You know, threatening to kill everyone if they don't follow what you want while you have the power to impose your will upon everyone is not very far from slavery itself.
Plus, the moment the overpowered supertyrant is gone (be it through old age, or assassination, or hopefully the summoning ritual sending the guy back after he did his job), things will just revert back to the old ways.
>>279655067It wouldn't end slavery, everybody else would be a slave to you, and once you die the slave system comes right back
>>279655123Better to be a slave to their feelings than to actual shackles and whips.
>>279655143Not necessarily. If MC is a godlike being he'll likely outlive the remnants of the wrecked system. Once MC is gone the people in charge would long have abandoned the concept of slavery.
>>279655067>just kill everybody that disagrees with youPretty based actually
>>279655185Unless the godlike MC has instituted longlasting beneficial policies that will lead to a society that doesn't require slavery, slavery will be back.
You better have an overpowered isekai MC who is superstrong AND supersmart at economics AND superliterate enough to remember why this and that didn't work out in our world until it went better to abolish slavery.
So far, 100% of all overpowered isekai protagonists, be they Japanese, or written by the irrelevant rest of the world, fail at economics.
>>279655120I mean when the sex is better animated than most hentai, thats reason enough to keep watching. But im not gonna act like the show basically being a softcore porno wasn't its main appeal. It had some pretty interesting dungeon mechanics if your into that sort of stuff.
>>279655186IKR, moralfaggotry will carry MC only so far. Conflict only exists because there's no power big enough to keep order. It can't be helped because humans are mortal and have limits. But if there's someone exempt from such limits and who has no real opposition why should he act in conformity with the attrocities happening around him? Bob made a good statement in Thunderbolts: "If I'm a God why should I take orders?"
>>279655152No that's actually much worse and partly how this whole mess started. This is how you get Darkseid level bullshit. It is quite literally the anti-life equation. It is the complete and utter subjugation of free will itself. It is an assault on what makes human, human. "I am many things Kal El, but here I am a god. "
>>279655017That reminds me of that /tg/ post I can't find anymore about a session where the players wanted to focus on improving and "modernizing" society, including abolishing slavery, replacing kingdoms with republics, etc. instead of going on their quest and they even succeeded. But it was futile because the evil lich also succeeded in his plan to become ultra powerful since no one even tried to stop him, so he just stomped the whole world.
>>279650536 (OP)Maybe he doesn't give a shit
Maybe it's very, very hard to overthrow an institution rather than just killing a few bad people
Maybe he thinks it's based and very hot, actually
lich
md5: b2605d5d6344b94ce4eccf9ed6afb46f
๐
>>279655281I warned you about the necromancer bros
>>279655225Considering most MCs come from the modern world they already have a third of the homework done. Even if they aren't the sharpest tool they can always surround themselves of brilliant people (no shortage of smart good guys/girls in Isekai/fantasy shows that side with protag). I'll give you a point in that usually the smartest Isekai MCs tend to have a bit more limited powers and become important through bussiness and political power plays. Not much need for that when you can kill gods with a thought. But every now and then we have Isekai MCs that are both smart and OP.
>>279655265>MC is hit by a truck and reincarnates as a Darkseid expyWould watch.
>>279655288Reminds me of one of my DMs. We defeated the evil sorcerer controlling the King and saving the land. Then he made a meteor fall over it and kill everyone.
>>279655287>Maybe he doesn't give a shitMost of the time this is the answer. As mentioned before a lot of MCs are just content with helping their friends and people they like while leaving society to its own devices. Maybe as japanese they are hot wired to not question authority nor the state of affairs unless it harms them directly.
>>279655296Honestly, I don't remember any isekai MC that is both smart AND powerful.
>>279655374Isn't Rimuru just a league short of the truly unbeatable Isekai MCs? He's very much building its own country by this point.
>>279655374Makoto from El Hazard was a pretty clever lad and he had the power to control ancient machines, which included a death star. Though by the time he figured out that he even had power he had to quickly dismantle the stupid thing so he didn't really get to play with it. And being the sensible sort he probably wouldn't much want to anyways. Which I guess is what makes him clever.
>>279655348I feel like this is also a major "Prime Directive" problem too.
>>279650536 (OP)>They can topple evil kings, slay demon lords, own castles and win the people over but the second it's slavery "it can't be helped".
>>279655476>Tangible and socialite problems are the same thing!
>Isekai has streaming in it
>Isekai is long-strip
>Isekai setting is from an MMO
>Isekai setting is from a mobile game
>Isekai is Korean or Chinese
Absolutely abysmal slop
>>279655225>>279655404Rimuru is actually the type who starts off as good in economics and domestic policy but finds it very difficult to deal with foreign policy at first and has to learn how to handle it.
>>279655506I honestly don't even think Japan actually knows how to process a fantasy that doesn't rune on game logic. And I mean actually game logic. Where the mechanics of the game are actual tangible concepts in the setting. I've seen anime where characters even have stat sheets and I'm not talking about one of those trapped in the game worlds either. I mean DanMachi. But just in general they can't seem to process what you're supposed to take as non diegetic. Like dungeons will just exist because dungeon. It's exceedingly frustrating.
>>279650536 (OP)>Isekai protagonist: By my fantasy goddess given powers I now declare slavery to be illegal>Merchants: Ok>Frees slaves>Merchant guild organizes for newly freed slaves to be paid just enough to afford rent and food>Merchant guild organizes for the healing mage guild' to only perform services on their own employees>Merchant guild buys all the undeveloped land and charges unaffordable prices for it so freed slaves can't make their own communities isolated from the merchants guild>Merchant guild spreads propaganda that anyone against the new system is a hereticOutlawing slavery just leads to serfs which is slavery with extra steps. It's an economic problem that can't be solved with a sword
>>279654638>Thousands of slaves aren't going to rally because most of them are so broken they don't even realize it's an option. Plenty of slaves were actually war captives, guys who literally have every single reason in the world to strike back at the people who enslaved them.
And even the slaves who were "born and raised" in slavery often had their own ways of rebelling, despite the punishment often being tortured to death, escape always remained the most common form of resistance, to the point they needed professional slave-catchers to handle the massive numbers of runaway slaves.
The idea that slaves were "broken" and never yearned for freedom is an idea that only exist in doujins. Sure, a great number would never try to escape because of how harsh and brutal the punishments were, but the fact that Rome at one point was shitting itself in fear of another slave rebellion shows how "broken" those slaves really were.
>Slavery is an idea and you cannot punch an idea Ideas need humans to carry them around, and if every human in favor of an idea gets hanged from a tree...well. Just ask all the civilizations and religions that were wiped out with pure violence across the ages.
And I don't mind if the story is about just a normal person trying to survive. But when you have some fucker with cheat powers, godlike strength, and enough modern knowledge to build entire cities, the "can't fight slavery" excuses start to sound really thin. And that's really what pisses me off. The guys in those stories are never really normal people, they have enough cheat powers to solo entire kingdoms by themselves, all that power, and they still make excuses for their cowardice, just admit you want free sex from a girl that can't say no.
>>279650815I'd like to treat you like my friend.
>>279655670Well, which isekai does have a protagonist with cheat powers, godlike strength, and enough modern knowledge to build entire cities that should be able to fight slavery?
>>279650954>acquire ugly old men to do menial labor for cheap>increase your funds by reselling the fruits of their labor>acquire more ugly old slaves and resources with renewed funds>repeat until the point of diminishing returns>wait until filthy rich>use money to buy ridiculously expensive cute young virgin girl slaves>train them as courtesans>now you have even more money>repeat until the point of diminishing returns>wait until filthy rich>use money to finance your own slave network>now you can get as many cute young virgin girl slaves as you want at a much cheaper priceCome on anon, apply your 21st century accumulated human knowledge, you were isekai'd after all. It's like your ancestors never owned a cotton farm.
Though instead of the last two steps you could use your money to influence society into transitioning to a paternalist slaver society where each slave is properly taken care of, and it'd be a viable step in OP's direction.
>>279650536 (OP)Because that would require better writing than most isekai authors can manage.
>>279655701The one with the kid that can kill anything. His only conflict is with keeping his friends alive. And, of course, he's apathetic to pretty much any kind of social order he just wants to chill so he'll never fix any social problems but will gladly erase multiversal deities if they stand in his way.
>>279655670>Ideas need humans to carry them around, and if every human in favor of an idea gets hanged from a tree...well. Just ask all the civilizations and religions that were wiped out with pure violence across the ages.And unless you're changing human nature you're only making shit worse for a never ending cycle of violence. While not about slavery go look how the french revolution was handled and "resolved." Your use of violence to quell slavery is only going to impose the idea that people should use equal amounts of force to combat anything else they may not like. There's no ceiling to it. You ever hear the the phrase power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely? You are staggeringly short sighted in ways that cannot even begin to be explained.
>>279655735The instant death guy?
That's just a black comedy like the shark isekai, and not to be taken seriously at all.
I still would love to see who would win in a battle between same and yogiri.
>>279655506>>279655608Do you think it's just because they're stuck in that creative mold?
I always took it more as the authors cynically decide it appeals more to the consumer if they make it formulaic and more of a power fantasy than a proper story. It's part of why I hate isekai, the entire genre feels more like pure escapism when the reality is that if you're a total loser in one environment you'll be a loser compared to other people in another one unless you fundamentally change how you view the world.
>>279655730Ghibli solves a lot of this by trying to humanize every character, even the villains. What I've noticed is that most manga never really reconcile major issues with the world itself or even comment on it. It was particularly bad in AoT.
>>279655761I think it's that plus a tragic cycle of an editorial process that rewards paint by numbers. People only grow to like the same crap because that's the only thing that gets made and it's the only thing that gets made because editors think it's the only thing people like.
>>279655741He has a point, though. Ideas can be warped, or rather, ideas can't avoid change. We have many problems today but it's still a better society than a few centuries ago and that's a fact. Human nature will never change, but it can (and has) be repurposed. Slavery still exists in some form in some places but back then it was commonplace. We all love to be pessimistic, it's addictive, but progress has been made.
>>279655803That's just because we're living on the exploitation of other places, and are hoping feverishly that the smart people can fighure out a way how to build smart robots that won't kill us all but will go to space to mine all the stuff we need to continue our lifestyle instead.
>>279655750Doesn't change the argument. And for serious invincible Isekai KC look no further than Chinese Manhwas where there are guys that can erase your entire bloodline with a punch that hits you so hard it can kill your ancestors back in time. I wish I was making this up.
>>279655827>look no further than Chinese ManhwasI never will do that, unless I was being paid for.
>>279655824I don't believe in killer AI. Or rather, AI that becomes murderous by itself. If that ever happens my first thought is that it's a circus mounted by human hands for some sinister purpose.
>>279655741Slavery is a status imposed by violence. Nazis didn't stop because people asked nicely, and people like you who conveniently always take issue with one group's violence are all too happy to let the opposing group's violence run everyone else over. Very curious how it's the people that literally own human beings that you go to bat for, and not the people they own.
>>279650536 (OP)Because it's not the power fantasy they want to sell. they want the character to become powerful (often a bully and physically powerful), wealthy and either get a harem or become a pussy magnet.
Doing acts of good or improving the world around them has nothing to do with the power fantasy isekaislop and similar stuff wants to present.
>>279650577>Slavery isn't inherently bad, many great empires were built because of slavery and all started to decline when slavery was abolished or minimizedNo actually, it is inherently bad.
It's unpaid labor where the worker can't leave, own anything, is usually malnourished and unmotivated, often leads to burning through workers (and thus experience and knowledge sharing) plus needing to find more for usually bad reasons.
>>279655855It doesn't need to be sentient enough to be murderous. It just needs to be badly programmed, like for example accidentally shooting the asteroids they were sent to mine towards Earth instead because their programming told them that this is the fastest and most efficient way to send all the gold and shit to the people on Earth.
>>279655910Sounds like a shitty genius of the lamp. You know those that grant trick wishes.
>>279650536 (OP)You cannot stop slavery, not even the most OP MC could.
>b-but todayWe have more slavery today than we ever did in any other time, and I'm not trying to be philosophical here, I'm talking about a dude beating the shit out of you with a whip if you don't obey, actually a current trend here in my shithole is to brand your slaves with your name, pretty clever isn't it?
>>279655225>require slavery, slavery will be back.Slavery is never required. It's just a way to make rich people richer. It's actually worse for society and the economy as a whole.
A rich dude keeping a slave servant they don't have to pay over a hired servant doesn't offer any benefits to society or the economy.
>>279655956I'm sad go hear that but it doesn't change the fact that it used to be worse. What your country live used to be the norm almost everywhere at some point. Today its at the very least shunned enough to be absent in many places. I don't mean offense but just because its happening where you live doesn't mean it's happening everywhere. Unlike past times.
>>279655956Underdeveloped shitholes cling to slavery. Amazingly, slavery does not help them crawl out from being shitholes. Slavery is a simplistic idea narrow-minded idiots cling to.
>>279650536 (OP)Who the hell cares about muh slavery though?
>>279655978You overestimate the value of the common slave servant to the society and economy if said slave servant were to be free in a medieval-like magical world. Slavery of people there is something only for the lowre middle class, like low nobility and merchants, having to buy the scraps of society to adorn their homes.
The real powerful people in said world have access to expensive magic where they get willing succubus sex servants, angelic brides and otherworlder superhusbands, or can craft their own perfect automata golem waifu who is more advanced than any scifi robot we dream up.
Plus, rich people in our world know all the tricks to pay no taxes and making the irrelevant middle class bleed for them.
>>279650536 (OP)Because the fantasy is getting to own girls while deluding yourself that you're a good person.
>>279655855We already have unsupervised learning algorithms that lead to political extremism because they're optimizing for view time rather than enjoyment and quality of life. Youtube is probably the #1 culprit for fostering political extremism out of any other source for this reason.
LLMs aren't AI, but it could easily happen if AI did exist because you know a corporation will run it early and tell it to optimize X above all else.
>>279656069>You overestimate the value of the common slave servantIt was an example to illustrate that slavery is flat out worse for a county, their economy and development.
A slave worker is inferior to a paid one, is not a citizen, contributes or adds nothing to society and takes away work for the people in said country and just pools the money with fewer people that already have enough.
>>279656316If you want to replace the unhappy common slave servant with the more advanced non-complaining golem automaton, you'll first have to hope that your society's magic technology is advanced enough to create enough affordable advanced golem automatons.
Only the really powerful centuries-old eternally young magic academy headmistresses can afford such inexhaustible servants, though.
>>279650577Great, now put on the shock collar
>>279650577>anon has never heard of correlation does not imply causation
Funny that the west did "Americans fighting slavery in another world" isekai almost two decades before slave harems became popular. Guns really are the great equalizer. Also becoming a pussy magnet after being a hero in the liberation war is cooler than just buying slaves.
>>279656018>he doesn't know
>>279650536 (OP)but thats not true. in Mushoku Tensei, Rudy and Ruijerd break up a child trafficking ring.
>>279651007being in the bottom 10pc of the labor force is honestly worse than usury when you factor in cost of living.
>>279656691The fact it's not immediately evident is a sign of improvement in itself.
>>279651007No one said things got better overnight. Economy and society had to get used to it.
>>279650577economic and technical analysis of slavery in every form throughout time has shown that it is a detriment on net to the nations that adopt it. it reduces innovation and stunts technical growth along with spreading corruption and centralizing wealth.
So, any other mention of isekai with overpowered and smart-competent protagonists that should and could have ended slavery?
So far, we only had a joke series, and some chinese shit.
>>279656693>but thats not true. in Mushoku Tensei, Rudy and Ruijerd break up a child trafficking ring.That's more incidental.
That's like unironically using Overlord as an example.
>>279656810That would require people to watch a lot of shitty isekai, which most at least marginally intelligent people don't do.
>>279656842Well, the OP is complaining about isekai having overpowered isekai protagonists with god-like cheat powers that should have already ended slavery, so surely he can provide actual examples.
Would be a pity if this thread was just somebody having a delusion again about the so-called vague proto isekai.
>>279656824it unrealistic to expect one person, even an OP guy, to tear down an institution. superheroes fight bad guys, they dont fight the concept of evil.
Rudy taking out one trafficking ring is worth more than a century of "beast girl slavery awareness month" or whatever.
>>279656902>superheroes fight bad guys, they dont fight the concept of evil.I think marvel superheroes do sometimes fight Satan and Lucifer and Mephisto and whatever other devil-types of pure ultimate evil and malevolence is.
Of course, said multiverse has lots of deities and personified concepts anyway like Death and Time and Judgement and The Watcher, all ready to come brawl it out with Spiderman and the X-Men (or is it now the X-people to be politically correct?).
>>279656878Three examples were already provided. The tone is irrelevant to the question.
>>279656974So far, we only had a joke series and chinkshit.
>>279656051No one clings to slavery, economic incentives of the modern global economy just make slavery for the sake of developed countries extremely profitable.
>>279656949american comics are fundamentally stupid. since they use punching and incarceration as a problem solving apparatus, they need to personify things that dont fit into that framework.
id be annoyed if manga did that too. an institution life slavery is too vast to end in a lifetime. even today with a near-global moratorium, it exists.
>>279650536 (OP)Because nips still dreaming of the teikoku enslaving and raping brownies and chinks
>>279650794>You can't exactly Detroit Smash the entire world economy to get them to stop enslaving peopleWe're talking about isekai power fantasy Gary Stu MCs here.
>>279657210a gary stu is well suited to fight the demon lord. not end slavery.
there is a superman comic where superman literally puts metropolis in a bottle, because its the only way to impose perfect order on it. or brainiac puts it into a bottle. i cant fucking remember.
>>279650705Would actually be kino if a well-meaning isekaislop hero tried to end slavery without thinking about the consequences and it ended up backfiring with people going into poverty and turning on him, have any shows tried this yet?
>>279650536 (OP)What do you want from them? Mass hypnosis? Genocide? Those are your options to defeat human nature.
>>279657553I think in shield hero, one of the three other heroes (probably sword, but I'm not sure) tried to do the good hero who doesn't think of the consequences, and then the former slaves all turned into bandits or something like that.
>>279650867pic related goes full Lincoln on the beastman slave traders later on, it's great
why don't more isekai heroes try to eliminate wage slavery?
>>279657653You want communism comrade?
>>279650536 (OP)I feel moved to point out that it's way more complex than just 'military power'. Consider the issue of North Korea, which is basically a giant slave state.
If you flew over and killed all the Kims with your incredible powers, then disabled all their nukes, your problems are only just beginning. Now, TWENTY MILLION NORTH KOREANS are going to flee south and into China to look for a better life, because they aren't going to stay in North Korea any longer. Not to mention other countries are going to get pissy.
Are you going to feed all of those twenty million people? Make North Korea Great Again? That's the work of a lifetime, and I'm pretty sure one man with incredible powers can't manage that by himself.
Hell, Game of Thrones explicitly states why dismantling slavery with no clear plan as to what comes next is a bad idea. It leads to massacres, tinpot dictators and an insurgency that you can't fight because everyone fucking hates you.
How is the problem resolved? Well, the liberator just asset-strips the place of everything she can carry and sails off to let the place become Afghanistan 2.0.
>>279658292>TWENTY MILLION NORTH KOREANS are going to flee south and into China to look for a better life, because they aren't going to stay in North Korea any longer. Not to mention other countries are going to get pissy.It wouldn't be a big problem for China. Basically similar proportion to escaping Ukrainian refugees to Poland (1.4bln/20m vs 37m/1m).
>Are you going to feed all of those twenty million people?Yeah like feeding twenty million people in modern world isn't a big deal.
>Hell, Game of Thrones explicitly states why dismantling slavery with no clear plan as to what comes next is a bad idea. It leads to massacres, tinpot dictators and an insurgency that you can't fight because everyone fucking hates you. No, that's just grimdumb writing. Grimdumbness is all about pulling random consequences for good characters because things just can't get better ok. Like implying having a sub 2% of your population join your country as refugees from a culturally similar country is unsustainable.
>>279650536 (OP)Ending slavery isn't something one person can do. It takes many years many people and many lives to try to attempt change. One Hero can only do so much.
>>279658292That's not comparable retard, nobody can invade because of their nukes. Also why the fuck would you deport the north koreans to other countries if you killed the leaders? Just make them stay and make them improve their lives by staying there.
Isekai is not real slavery
>>279658600Their nukes aren't actually THAT much of a problem, it's their population. And it's not about deporting the people, they'll naturally flee to look for a better life, because why the fuck would they want to stay in North Korea?
You gonna stop people from leaving?
>>279657624eh, kinda feels forced. As in the author tried to think of the worst possible result.
>>279658892all the three other heroes were meant to be buffoons that make everything wrong to make the shield hero guy look better after he got wrongfully accused of attempting to rape some bitch (later officially renamed to be bitch).
>>279658654>why the fuck would they want to stay in North Korea?Probably so they don't starve or go homeless. Y'know, the problems that you, an IQ 100 individual, managed to foresee already.
>>279658654The us did the same thing in the middle east making immigrants flood into europe for decades, why is it suddenly a problem now? They'd also mostly only be able to move to china or russia which are opponents to the us empire
Still no mention of an actual isekai where the strong smart cheat power-enhanced protag should have solved slavery.
Very curious.
>>279658654Their lives are shit because of their leaders. If anything, china or south korea or any other country is gonna try to claim the territory and feed them and improve their lives.
>>279659143If those countries wanted those lands for themselves, they would have already invaded years ago (or at least tried to, like China attempted with Vietnam - the Vietnamese kicked out the French, the Americans and the Chinks).
Some neighboring countries are kept around as a buffer zone to keep even more detested foreigners at bay.
>>279659132>inb4 shield hero+MTSo you're talking specifically about SH+MT?
>no mang you dont get it all isekai do itWhich ones?
>shield hero+MT
>>279650636That's the neat part
>>279650536 (OP)Because owning slaves is part of the audience's power fantasy
>>279656949You'll note these comics still get meme'd when superheroes don't solve the energy crisis, change the status quo, change Gotham from being shit, etc.
>>279659324>SHprotagonist literally forced to resort to slavery to survive in the first place after false accusations, and then also cursed by his own weapon, opposed by national church, has to play babysitter to retarded co-heroes, forced to fight world-ending threat
>MTinsecure protagonist unable to do anything about it if he's not backed by angry greenhaired demons or angry beastfolk victims who just got attacked right now.
Both protags lack the power and smartness to deal with institutionalized slavery once and for all.
Now, shield hero might perhaps later on be able to end slavery forever once he becomes an actual demigod (from what I can gather), but he'll probably rather try to impregnate his coon-wife.
>>279659390Kinda funny/sad that japanese men get rejected so hard by women that getting a girl to like you through normal means is just too unrealistic to use.
Killing a king doesn't end the institution of slavery. Very few MCs are as OP as you describe.
>>279650604slave hands typed this.
owning little girls must have been a blast.
Even Arifuta mc merely encouraged a few beastmen that already wanted to do it and end slavery.
>Isekai protagonist blessed with insane cheat powers.
"I'm too weak to do anything about slavery. Guess it can't be helped."
>Random Prince from a mid 90's tactical rpg whose only special trait is being able to wield a rapier and use a mid sword he keeps losing.
Casually demolishes about six kingdoms, kills a dragon-demigod twice, saves the world from feral dragons, gets a 10/10 girlfriend, unifies the continent, and casually bans slavery before reaching the age of 30.
Why is Isekai so shit at being a power fantasy?
Doesn't Realist Hero already tackle this? It's not a great isekai by any means because of a lot of bullshit but it has a decent take on how to transition a medieval-level mixed race slave society away from slavery.
>>279659731Surrealist hero is that series where the mc tells his country to stop growing cotton, and to grow food instead, or tells elves to take care of their forest, and is lauded as the wisest man ever.
>>279659728>Why is Isekai so shit at being a power fantasy?They're not high tier.
>>279659728>banning slavery means there's no slavery
>>279659731Not really, the story skips over all the bureaucracy and shit so it's just MC telling them to do things, then later we check on it and it's all working out great.
>>279659781He also wipes out about four bandit groups. I doubt there was any slavery left by the time he was done.
>>279659818Surely by reading Machiavelli's The Prince, he totally knew what to do correctly everything and everywhere.
>>279659755Again, not a great isekai. He's pretty much just a well-read guy thrown into a backwater society so any modern common ideas and everyone's going sugoi hero-sama.
But the carrot and stick he presented to the kingdom regarding slavery was decent enough that you can suspend your disbelief that the changes might stick.
>>279659755Is it really that hard to just copy some pages from Romance of the Three Kingdoms?
>>279650705I mean that's the inherent problem with a lot of fantasy. OP just mentioned toppling kings and gaining the will and trust of the people, but unless that guy was very charismatic and had good leadership sense then that shit would take years to build up. Especially if those super powerful demon lords or whatever couldn't easily be replaced. Slavery being the one avenue of fantasy civilization where they accept it's more complex than stopping one bad guy feels weird
>>279650692I'm not saying it is a good thing, retard. But it's natural. Wake up from your "Appeal to Nature fallacy".
>>279650983Just imagine the problem didn't get solved and they just shuffle all the people who would ordinarily be forced into slavery into building and maintaining the automations for paltry pay
>>279659894Yeah, considering the scale of his world, that might be all the bandits. But that also makes conquering kingdoms
>>279659728 less big of a deal when said kingdoms probably had 50 soldiers. 100 tops.
>entire thread of autistics debating the pros and cons of real world slavery instead of answering OPs actual question
>Why is it that whenever slavery in isekai is debated, the OP can do anything protagonist is suddenly powerless against systems?
Because its part of the authors fetish. Thats why. And you dont put your fetish into the story just to have the protagonist defeat it and make it no longer relevant to the story.
Slavery in settings where it is within the protagonists power to end it but he is magically powerless to do so is pure "magical realm" slop
Imagine an isekai about a normal dude who actually starts a revolution in another world, frees the slaves, has realistic character flaws he slowly hammers out and gains some skills enough for survival and combat without making him an OP among OPs
Crazy novelty, i know
>>279660018Magical automata and golems are meant to be very sturdy and to only require low maintenance (assuming that they don't just maintain themselves), so the problem would rather be that the jobs that slaves and free people performed would be taken over by superior automata that require no food, no sleep, no house, no doctor, which means that all those former slaves and free people would be out of jobs, and would have to sell themselves as whores and worse to compete with superior magical robots.
Which then leads back to slavery.
>>279660173I don't value novelty in stories
>>279660153I can't answer an hallucinated trope that the OP made up. If OP wanted an answer, he'd mention what Anime & Manga he's talking about. See
>>279659559There's your answer.
If instead you're talking about another like Arifureta, there are cases where MC helps topple slavery.
retard.
>>279660153Pretty much. Narou stories are escapism, but when people see that a boot is crushing their neck, rather than wanting to get rid of all the boots they just want to be the boot themselves.
>>279650536 (OP)Remember that this is the country that wrote "You made a lot of people feel slightly uncomfortable, so you must be executed."
These threads always go the same way.
>OP: All isekai are bad because they all have the problem X!
>Isekaifriend: Isekai such as...? Do you even have one example?
>OP: All of them have it! ALL OF THEM!
>Isekaifriend: Here are A, B, C, D, E isekai that all do not have X in them
>OP: Ugh... well, those are the exceptions that prove the rule!
>Isekaifriends: So there aren't any, not even one, huh?
>OP: AAAAA! Isekaifag shut up! All isekai are the same and have X, you are just coping! AAAAA!
>>279660259>the exception disprove the rule hurr durrAlso not what the op asked dumb ass.
>Why is it that whenever slavery in isekai is debated, the OP can do anything protagonist is suddenly powerless against systems?Specifically mentioned stories where the protagonist is strong and able enough to do whatever but doesn't end slavery just because. Maybe work on your comprehensive reading skills before you come at someone.
>>279660261Exactly.
>>279660339>autist cannot comprehend generalizations and demands that every discussion be reduced to its most specific levelYou must be fun at parties. Or more specifically what I am communicating to you is that if hypothetically you had friends who hypothetically invited you to parties I am sarcastically implying that you would not be a fun guest at said hypothetical parties.
Is that a specific enough response for you?
>>279660354>exception It's not an exception retard.
>Specifically mentioned stories where the protagonist is strong and able enough to do whatever but doesn't end slavery just because.But what are those stories? Unless you name the stories you're talking about, I can't answer the question. If you do, I can say for sure that it's a fetish or doesn't even exist there.
>>279660339how do you eat the same isekai slop and not get tired
>>279659818It actually focused more on the bureaucracy in my opinion. The story presented only 1 slave trader actually making a direct change and expected every other slavers to follow suit or be expelled from the kingdom or penalized.
But, there was an idea in how he approached the slave issue and pretty much put a stopgap to it in his story. OP was suggesting an isekai hero just go DBZ and shout "end slavery!!" and it's just gonna fix the system.
Who knows if that sticks in the long-term once he's dead or something. People usually get a Nobel Peace Prize if they actually did that in the real world.
>>279660412>b-but [moving the goalposts] after you got BTFO
>>279660261>Narou stories are escapism, as opposed to all the non-escapism live-changing cultural /lit/erature fiction whose prose deeply make your soul tremble and are so extremely 2deep5you that they completely destroy and rebuild your entire worldview and leave you as a completely changed man who is left to ponder about the intricate mysteries and philosophical questions that the story presents for the rest of his life, maybe even beyond!
>>279659390>>279660153besides this, what bothers me is that the system of slavery is always the exact same.
they always
>are human prisoners of war or other races deemed subhuman>have zero rights>cannot buy or earn their freedom on their ownSlavery can be used in more ways than "power fantasy" and "ultimate evil that must be abolished above all else".
>>279660412they chase the same high that they experienced the first time they consumed the slop
Retards literally can never be specific and have to be very general, hoping to masquerade their ignorance by speaking very broadly about things that aren't true.
>>279660393You are objectively a retard and there is infinite evidence proving that and if you ask for examples of that evidence then it proves that you are even more of a retard. Now if you think otherwise, then prove you aren't. But if you do, then it implicitly proves that you are "fun at parties", by the way.
Is that generalized enough for you?
>>279660520what high? isekai are just some boring self insert story, even if you read it the first time the feeling isn't that good
>>279650536 (OP)Japanese love slaves. They still had them until Meiji era.
>>279660618well you're not a fucking loser like them so you won't like it
>>279660628as a matter of fact yes i am
but not to the point of liking this stuff
>>279650577Slavery is shit even from a purely utilitarian perspective, no wonder it collapsed the second people started creating machines and skilled labor became more valuable
Nobody in the entire world can write fiction where slavery has ended, because slavery still hasn't ended in the real world.
The best we real-worlders have managed is to outsource it to some other place nobody cares about except for the natural riches there.
>>279660526Indeed. They explode even more when you demand they expose what ""Michelin-star-awarded food"" equivalent deeply enlightening flawless philosophical masterpieces they have read to make such judgements. They refuse to answer, because of course they do. Calling isekai slop or shit is easy, but having to justify your own "reading history" as actually being "elevated" or even merely just being above isekai?
Oh no, no one wants to do that for some reason...
>>279660339Don't be dense, nobody's going to bother remembering the retarded names of isekaislop they skimmed through because some anons posted certain pages of it in a thread.
The clichรฉs are real and they're mocked for a reason.
>>279660691slavery has, for the most part, ended in the real world. it's impossible to end it for real (meaning absolutely everywhere because you can't monitor every thing) but you can go anywhere in the world and 99% of the people won't be slaves.
Being evasive once more.
Typical standard behavior of a liar.
>>279660191They're probably getting their power from somewhere, even if people don't know where. Hopefully it doesn't end up draining the life form the land.
>>279654744Because you can't have your cake and eat it too.
If you want an OP Isekai MC + portray him as a good guy + a harem fantasy with the comfort of the girls being unable to ever reject the MC because they are slaves, someone will eventually point out your hypocrisy.
It's okay if you are just writing a fetish fantasy or your MC is immoral, but if you want to pretend the Demigod who engages in slavery constantly is also a good guy then your reader's suspension of disbelief will break
>>279654824The thing is that in reality a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman no matter her class or traits.
In those cases such women end up being assaulted and kidnapped, no man is going to ignore a 10/10 sex goddess because "ugh she is from a lower social status" or "her white hair is satanic!" They would just rape said women and maybe even take them as their property
>>279660839Open slavery is happening everywhere outside of Wstern Europe and North America. And on those two continents, slavery is also still happening, but just well hidden, mostly being of the "sex worker" sort, and other cheap workers.
Cheap exploited deplorables and undesirables who fear being ratted out by their handlers to the authorities and forced to work for a pittance are everywhere you walk past any construction site.
The only real change is that unlike back then, when slavers had to catch the weak and the poor and transport them to the destination, hoping to find a buyer for them, they nowadays just trick the weak and the poor into giving them their money, claiming that they're gonna work at a good job in the rich countries, and have those future slaves pay for their own transportation.
>>279660964What the other anon neglects to mention is that those 10/10 white-haired beauties tend to be disfigured and dying from diseases, and it's mostly the overpowered healing magic of the protagonist that transforms the dying useless merchandise back into a beautiful and loyal waifus.
This comedy series is about MISUNDERSTANDINGS and SASUGA ALLEN-SAMA
>>279661132>Open slavery is happening everywhere outside of Wstern Europe and North America. And on those two continents, slavery is also still happening, but just well hidden, mostly being of the "sex worker" sort, and other cheap workers.Literally all of Europe has no open slavery, not just western. Most of Asia doesn't have slavery as an institution either. Slavery also doesn't equal having shit work condition and large dependency upon an abuser. Immigration to rich countries isn't slavery either and has better outcomes than being a literal slave.
>>279660770You don't get it. Many times there are indeed some superficial clichรฉs built in especially at the start of isekai stories, which is the natural result of being a starter pack concept to easy to start off on for amateurs that want to get into writing without going through the usual hoops of publishing.
So? Whenever someone makes a post complaining about them, surprise: Rather than referring to an actually existing issue, the OPs of such threads instead just make up a completely non-existent plot point, or add some kind of non-existent implication to an existing plot-point.
Like here: Yeah there is slavery in many isekai. Sometimes the MCs even part-take in it. And in many cases the MC does not even try to end slavery nor even try to make the lives of slaves in general less miserable within his/her capabilities. These are all true.
But the OP is not talking about that. The OP is talking about, I presume, moralfag overpowering MCs who want to make the isekai a better place and topple evil nobles and such explicitly for moralfag reasons, but then supposedly turn around and say "yeah, but slavery is fine!"
Perhaps there even are isekai like that. But the problem is that the OP claims that this is as common as "whenever slavery is being talked about" which it isn't.
It's not common because in most cases the MC isn't interested in any kind of "social engineering" especially since the Japanese are culturally closer to collectivists than individualists (MUH the nail that sticks out gets hammered in). The ones that can do it tend to be the nation building isekai MCs, but those tend to not be moralfags, yet either out of practicality or some other non-moral reason either never utilize slavery from the start or abolish it due to introducing industrialization or possess some kind of magical means for mass-production.
>>279650536 (OP)In all fairness, slavery can be really profitable. For comparison, here's the fees from an auction of black slaves in the pre-Civil War era:
>Forty-year old woman, good cook, inherited from a dead older man. Sold for nine hundred dollars.>Male in his thirties, used to breed other slaves, sold for one thousand two hundred dollars (after auction).>Twenty-two year girl, non-virgin, attractive, octaroon, sold for twenty-eight hundred dollarsNow, a dollar in 1848 (the time of that auction) is around 40 dollars today. So the fees are:
> Cook: 36,000 dollars> Worker: 48,000 dollars> 'Governess / Maid': 112,000 dollars! That's a fuckload of money, almost someone's annual salary.
Presumably a beautiful virgin would be worth far more, especially if she's an elf or something.
>>279653925>people further right than me are actually left wing!
>>279661132I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the Middle East at all. Qatar and UAE literally use slave labor.
>>279654989Look who's now acting like a bleeding heart Moralfag...
>>279661132It happens there too, it's called prison labour.
This is a problem with a lot of modern media, not just something in isekai.
Often, slavery is just used for moral labels for the cast: How they react to it is supposed to signpost the viewer's feelings towards the character. Stories are often only superficially about slavery and don't actually care about the socioeconomic factors that would give rise to it. And obviously they aren't really sure how to handle it, so it's usually resolved by some handwave or totally forgotten about as the principal cast moves onto some other "more important" issue that the writer is actually interested in exploring.
>>279650536 (OP)>the OP can do anything protagonist is suddenly powerless against systemsRepeat this in English
>>279650536 (OP)SHI KA TA GA NAI
>reddit thread has 230+ replies
4chan was better off dead.
>>279662076the OP can-do-anything protagonist is suddenly powerless against systems
>>279662144who is op, how is he different from the protagonist?
>>279650536 (OP)Who said slavery is bad?
You fell for the propaganda.
>>279662254OP is the common shorthand for the common colloquial term "overpowered".
Sword Dad had it right. Slaughter every slaver.
>>279650536 (OP)>They can topple evil kings, slay demon lords, own castles and win the people over but the second it's slavery "it can't be helped".image not related, right?
>>279650536 (OP)What series are you talking about? In MT, Rudy had his family and friends hacked to pieces just for stealing a tome.
>>279660875>They're probably getting their power from somewhere, even if people don't know where. Hopefully it doesn't end up draining the life form the land.The entire world of MT is made out of mana, from the people to the rocks so they probably just get their power by existing.
>>279650568my sides can't be helped
>>279662372Somebody please help this mans sides, they could split at any moment.
>>279662353>Rudy had his family and friends hacked to pieces just for stealing a tomeI forgot about that. Sure you can protect yourself, but you can't be everywhere at once.
>>279661245>and it's mostly the overpowered healing magic of the protagonist that transforms the dying useless merchandise back into a beautiful and loyal waifus. You mean ruins them. Fixing girls doesn't make them better, it makes them worse. Just look at Choujin X and Gachikuta! Broken girls are the best!
My boy Yogiri helped free the slaves
>>279659559In the WN, after the bitch god is defeated and the worlds have merged, there's rampant confusion and banditry that Naofumi and others have their hands full trying to get it under control. Naofumi and others are also enacting a long-term plan to slowly phase out slavery altogether. Which in the future seems to have worked but again, baby steps.
Someone has yet to prove this wrong.
Genjitsu Shugi Yuusha did it well I think.
The protagonist wasn't all powerfull though, so a different approach was used. And it kinda made sense. If the entire nation has lot of slaves, what do you do once you abolish it? Where do the slaves go, how will they have housing,food, etc.
Instead of flat out abolishing it, the slavers needed to obtain a license in the serios. It created a way for slaves to eventualy gain basic education, which made them more valuable than regular people. Since reading/writing was not common.
>>279650536 (OP)Slavery is a modern taboo.
For many modern humans it is bad by word of god, not because they came to the conclusion that it actually is.
It had been reality for most of human history, save a couple of decades or a few centuries max.
In most cases it was a way to be attached to a family without actually being a part of it and gain their protection and support.
Large scale chattel slavery through conquest was not the norm, but rather a kind of perversion resulting from a temporarily outrageously successful empire.
>>279664154What they call "slavery" in that isekai with all its stipulations and limitations is probably less actual slavery than Japanese wage-slavery is.
>>279662057The natural conclusion for any bad isekai is the hero mc transforming it into a copy of the shitty place he was resurrected from.
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."
You can solve individual problems - rescue the cute slave girl, lead a revolution, dethrone the demon king, but fundamentally changing society is not an option.
>>279661495Ok but the OP never talked about how common debating vs not debating slavery is and nobody but you actually cares about that specific point to begin with
>>279650536 (OP)Killing a king is easier than killing a system
>>279664695So you wouldn't mind being enslaved then?
>>279655719>it's like your ancestors never owned a cotton farmThey didn't, you're correct. I'm not Jewish. Curious bringing that up
>>279655741The French Revolution being demonized because of violence against aristocrats (using violence to regain control) is the funniest most libcuck thing I realized once I grew up
"Durr we overthrew the people who were whipping peasants for looking at them wrong, they have armies and whole banks, but we should just tell them they were bullies and let bygones be bygones"
If that's what people took from the revolution, I almost can't wait to see them try some "peaceful uprising" and get slaughtered en masse when it turns out taking stuff from powerful people doesn't make them disappear and decide to be your friend
If we suddenly said "No Jew can operate a bank or media company, that's the law, you have to follow it," how soon would every human alive forget that law and the person who wrote it ever existed
>>279664695>bad by word of godIs it? The bible doesn't treat it like so
>>279665571It's just as easy actually, you just need to outlaw slavery.
Will it actually solve the issue of slavery? Not immediately no, killing the king usually doesn't fix the problem IRL either but that never stopped fiction from pretending it does.
>>279665775Wasn't the french revolution co-opted by another group of (less) rich people? Also no matter how you look at it the entire thing was a shit show although necessary I suppose.
>>279665575That's not an argument.
There are many things I would not want, but which are a reality in society.
The individualistic ideal of "freedom" is a fairly new thing that emerged in a somewhat pacified world.
During antiquity banishment was a hard punishment.
>>279659324>MTRudeus doesn't have the power to end slavery even if he wanted to.
>>279666470So you do think it's bad then?
>>279656985Which are valid examples.
>>279657239Slavery is still at a minor rate in Superman's world without his help.
>>279658292There are North Koreans escaping everywhere right now.
>>279658892Much like many answers here. People just loves to be pessimistic and think of the worst possible outcome as fact.
>>279663647Well du'h. Naofumi isn't all powerful like Anos or Yogiri
>>279666733Well to be fair, Prime naofumi is out there helping the slaying of "Gods", he left a fragment of himself to live in Raphtalia's world to live out the rest of everyone else's life.
>>279650536 (OP)Do you have isekai-ed brain?
Lincoln built on a platform and fought a civil war for it.
Writers cant write characters smarter than themselves
>>279650536 (OP)Maybe the main reason is that MC is just not interested with ending slavery.
Or the other reason why MC is not interested with ending slavery because doing that will only make things worse, for example kingdom allows slavery but also regulates it to guarantee a minimal wellbeing for every slave(like food requirements, how much work slave is allowed to handle, in many cases that kind of regulations allows slaves to leave slavery (for example by buying freedom away), kingdom abolishing slavery wont remove slavery, but it will be pushed into black market where regulations are seen as irrevelant and basically slaves just lose all guaranteed minimum needs and even option to leave slavery.
>>279650536 (OP)Why hasn't someone ended modern slavery yet? We can fly to the moon, explode giant nukes, and build skyscrapers, but the second it comes to exploiting the working man it's "go fuck yourself".
>>279650536 (OP)Protip:
(You) all publicly and privately endorse slavery. No exception to what country you live in. All countries have a criminal-based slavery, only the specific rules/punishments vary. The common factor? Slavery. Do enough "bad" shit, you are dead. None of you protest our current slavery system. Only a few activists even care to try to reform that shit (note: reform, not remove).
You being thrown into another world and looking at their criminal justice system and doing jack shit is EXACTLY like traveling to some foreign country and doing jack shit to their system, even if you don't like their rules. (Do shit and get imprisoned bitch!)
And what are you going to replace criminal slavery with? Some anime show exactly what happens when the criminals are in charge - and it is not good at all, and in most cases worse than whatever shit the "kingdom" has going on.
And the fuck is some hero going to do to end discrimination if it's species based? We can't even end racial shit here on Earth. The fuck is some human gonna do to fix that shit?
>>279650705We know exactly what a no slavery system of life looks like: tribal life. Some one steals? Hands cut off. Don't like their shit? Dead. Want their women? Taken and raped. It's fucking brutal savagery. You are at the literal hands of the mob in a no-slavery system. Most people would rather be subject to a civilized court where your actions are impartially reviewed, and you spend time in a cell as a slave rather than get dismembered, set on fire, or murdered. Slavery looks a hell of a lot better when doing bad shit gets you killed automatically.
>>279650577Putting aside everything else, this isn't actually true. At all. Cultures all gravitate towards dropping slavery at some point because they outgrow it and they typically start doing much better. I don't even know what the fuck kind of pop history you could be consuming to believe what you do
>>279659728>Random nobody pud with combat powers vs Person in position of authority dedicating time and effort to disestablishing the concept This really shouldn't be hard to figure out but for some reason you morons still can't see the difference. Cheat powers and combat powers are useless against human nature and societal woes.
You cannot end slavery, the only way would be creating a society where humans have infinite resources and all the work is done by robots, and you all know how that ends, slavery means balance, you just have to accept some people get lucky and others don't.
I think making the mc an escaped slave would make a great setup for a power fantasy.
>MC gets summoned to fantasy land
>gets immediately enslaved because that's what the people from that world are after, slaves to fight in some war
>MC actually gets some training, since they need the slaves to at least last a little in a fight, this helps to explain why the MC can fight against trained warriors despite being from a peaceful modern country
>MC gets to actually fight in a battle or two to gain experience
>Eventually something happens and MC escapes with fellow slaves
>escaped slaves are always burned to death, so the stakes could not be higher, capture means death, they need to survive at any cost
And now you have a setup where MC can remain surrounded by cute girls and some cool guys, some people like to ask "why would any girl remain around some bland Jap MC?", and this answers it nicely, they are all escaped slaves who are going to burn to death if they get captured, they don't have a choice, those cute elves with massive titties literally need to stick close to the MC in order to survive.
And sharing hardship like often creates deep bonds between survivors, giving a good explanation for why all those girls still remain with the MC long after they earned freedom.
>>279650954Do you think all the criminals in prison are fugly macho men? No! We have women who murder, cheat and steal too! Isekai definitely has some unruly slave women for you to fix. And even more if you have species-based discrimination going on!
Isekai slaves are just criminal slaves 90% of the time, with them doing "public service" for their crimes to people who can afford them. Of course 10% are debt slaves in some isekai, but this mirrors the USA where debt slavery is the norm. Some do show slaves as POWs, but the analog for that in the US is pretty fucking nasty vit gitmo, so yeah, the slaves often have it WAY better than here.
>>279650536 (OP)the intended audience is full of losers who jerk of to the idea of being able to own a woman
>>279659781>banning murder doesn't prevent murder so why even bother?
>>279651007It's like the faggots who advocate for illegal immigration. They want cheap slave labor, it's never for "human rights" and that - you can see these 'tards literally flip shit at white immigration when they really want brown immigration for slavery purposes. It's 'virtue signalling' that they are somehow magically good people (despite being evil fucks at heart).
That is what all of this "slavery bad m'kay" shit is - evil fucking people pretending they don't like slavery when they literally love it when brown people do it and when big daddy government does it. Or they are even worse and endorse the nasty shit cartels do - rape, murder, dismemberment.
>>279665494"debating" here obviously means in-universe and not forum/board posts, else the OP makes very little sense.
>>279667754I mean they're at least honest. The people who complain about this not only show a stunning lack of historical knowledge but also a flagrant disregard for the whole societal and economic side of things.
>>279650536 (OP)It is one thing to kill a figure head or to be seen as good by a nation state, but when you start messing with an established way of life, people tend to react with violence. It would be pretty fun to see a beloved hero that saved the world get betrayed and killed because he tried to dismantle the slave trade.
>>279667868yeah. hilarious.
>>279667903>Abraham Lincoln gets sent to a medieval world>Armed with weaponized charisma, gets everyone to form a more perfect society, over throws the monarchy, sets of democracy. Gets more modern conveniences invented.>Sees that Slaves are still a thing and decides to try to nip itThe cycle repeats
>>279667822Laws don't actually do much of anything, it's violence that does the job in the end.
>>279665494That doesn't really change anything, it's either debated or it isn't. OP is talking about when it's debated and your counterargument boils down to "but it's not always debated"
>>279667862That doesn't really change anything, it's either debated or it isn't. OP is talking about when it's debated and your counterargument boils down to "but it's not always debated"
>>279668070You need violence to enforce the law so it still needs to be banned in the first place.
>>279667703>the only way would be creating a society where humans have infinite resources and all the work is done by robots, and you all know how that ends No, we don't know how that ends because this has never been tried before, we never had the technology for that. But that kind of stuff is getting closer each day, improvements in A.I and nanotechnology, alongside space mining, could very well create a society of abundance, where billions, likely trillions of human beings could spread around the solar system and live plentiful lives, never wanting for anything.
I find it funny, the ultra rich already live lives where robots(the middle class and poor) do all the work, and they have no problem enjoying life. Billionaires often have six kids or more, party all year round and enjoy lives of extreme luxury. Meanwhile in fiction humans often rebel against the robots...for some reason, the author never explains why the entire human race would rebel against lives of luxury and go back to squalor and poverty. Either that or humans would go extinct, because we can't handle lives of luxury for everyone....despite the fact that billionaires have no trouble enjoying and even thriving with all that wealth.
The solar system has enough resources to sustain trillions of human beings for billions of years, poverty will either disappear after reliable space mining becomes a thing, or humanity will have to accept we already can eliminate human suffering and poverty, we just don't want to do that because we are pieces of shit who enjoy harming others.
>>279668179Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? I am saying almost every story with slavery in it does "discuss" it at least once even if it's just superficial.
What OP is saying (at least the only interpretation that makes any kind of sense) is that most of such isekai have a super strong MC who wants to "change the world for the better" and because of that is taking down evil nobles, kings etc., yet when confronted with slavery suddenly backs down and doesn't even want to try to change anything whatsoever about it.
And that statement by OP is wrong because it either doesn't exist or is an extreme rarity. At least none of the well-known isekai support his claim.
>>279668446acknowledging slavery exists in isekai world != debating slavery anon
debating would imply it's a plot point that multiple characters talked about instead of the MC going "guess slavery exists here" right before buying a slave harem
>>279668218You do? If a mugger tells you give me your bag or I shoot, is he following some law? If a vigilante shot up every human trafficking operation in the region did he need a law? All a law is is a clean conscience to use violence.
>>279668720Yes anon, that's called the Monopoly on Violence and it's how the law is enforced.
>>279654885I would probably do the same in his place.
>>279650794>You can't exactly Detroit Smash the entire world economy to get them to stop enslaving people"I beg to differ"
>>279651026Superman can squeeze coal into diamond so yes
>Medieval Europe-like feudal society
>slavery is widespread
To be honest this is the most annoying part. You still had muslim slaves and captured prisoners, but it's not like societies depended on those in all aspects of their life. It's more like in most places other than Europe slavery was much bigger and lasted longer.
>>279667715>escaped slaves are always burned to death, so the stakes could not be higher, capture means death, they need to survive at any costI'll write this, but it's gonna end with the MC and his group dying and being burned and change not occurring until 200 years later.
>>279669273>Superman can squeeze coal into diamond so yesThat would only make the economy worse by deflating the value of the existing diamonds and thus increasing inflation.
>>279668645Like I said my interpretation of what OP is saying was the only one that makes sense and is still the most good faith one.
If we take your interpretation, then it narrows things down so much that what he describes... just doesn't exist. Not in the sense of "does this trait apply or not" but literally just "no results found" because to my knowledge there is no isekai about an OP MC who wants to improve the world and has the power to do so and takes action even against local authorities if he must, yet refuses to do it for slavery AND discusses slavery in detail.
Closest you get to that is By The Grace Of The Gods, but Ryoma doesn't have a savior complex and has shown no inclination of being a social engineer. But it had a person who tried to abolish slavery, another previous isekai'd person from long in the past who succeeded at first, but slavery resumed before long because he could not address all root causes of slavery and that isekai'd person had to make do with just creating limitations to slavery and basic guaranteed rights for them.
So back to the initial question: What isekai is OP trying to reference here? Surely OP wouldn't just make up some fancy plotline on the spot for fun, or would he? Not to mention that if you really think about it, isn't OP just being unreasonably angry at isekai authors simply for refusing to write "benevolent tyrant"-types of MCs the way he in particular wants them to be?
>>279650794>become leader of country by punching really hard>take a big stamp>stamp official paper>slavery is now illegal>punch slavers who persistSeems simple as me.
>>279657239There isn't any slavery in metropolis, so clearly it's not a big ask to not do slavery.
>>279669854>JUST start a dictatorship and become a tyrant to force society to bow to your views without explaining any rationale for it >What could possibly go wrong?
>>279669854>Seems simple as me.Okay you've freed the slaves. Now what? The economy has been altered drastically over night. This will lead to a massive increase in prices across the board. Nobody can afford shit anymore because the new prices. Non slave industry isn't going to increase wages because their own income isn't going to increase. Further where are the slaves going now? Do they have land of their own? Do they know how to interact with greater society? Who is going to look after them? You're basically setting domesticated animals into the wild with no way to guarantee their survival.
>>279669605It's not Europe, it's feudalism in general. One of the more notable traits of Feudalism compared to the imperial models that preceded it is a precipitous decline in slavery. This wasn't because they had some moral compunction against slavery, and they might still have it in smaller amounts, but it simply no longer economically viable to practice it on any sort of scale in Feudalism. This is because slavery is traditionally sustained by large scale conquest which adds slaves as a form of war booty who are shipped back to the homeland. But Feudal societies do not engage in that kind of large scale conquest. And what conquest they do engage in is done in order to gain control patches of land and the people who farm it, which means they can't afford to enslave the conquered to ship back to the homeland because they need to keep them where they already are. The Islamic Caliphates still practiced large amounts of slavery because they still engaged in large scale conquests where human beings in the form of slaves could be used as a form of "payment" for those who fought for the King/Shah/Emir/Sultan/etc.
>>279669972>This will lead to a massive increase in prices across the board.There are ways that have been successfully used in the real world to manage such events throughout history such as forms of price controls etc.
>Further where are the slaves going now? Do they have land of their own?Redistribution. Break up the great slave plantations into the metaphorical "40 acres and a mule" and give them to the freed slaves, which has the added benefit of creating a new class of freedmen who are politically loyal to you. What's that? the slave owners are crying? Who cares they're already your enemies for abolishing slavery in the first place. If anything they should be thankful to be alive (note you'll probably have to kill a lot of them anyway because they will militarily resist emancipation in the first place).
>>279670055>One of the more notable traits of Feudalism compared to the imperial models that preceded it is a precipitous decline in slavery Riiiight... decline of "slavery" indeed.
>>279669972>Okay you've freed the slaves. Now what? The economy has been altered drastically over night. This will lead to a massive increase in prices across the board. Nobody can afford shit anymore because the new prices.None of that shit happens because medieval societies didn't base their economy on slaves. It was serfs that actually worked the land.
>Further where are the slaves going now?It's medieval times so generally labor force was valuable even if unskilled.
>Do they have land of their own?No, likely neither do serfs. They work someone's land and pay taxes, or become craftsmen.
>Do they know how to interact with greater society?Depends on their skills and origin. Are they captured soldiers? Professional soldiers or levy? Captured peasantry? All of these would guarantee they have some skills to be useful.
>Who is going to look after them?It's medieval times. You try to join a community in exchange for work, or maybe even make your own community in the woods.
>You're basically setting domesticated animals into the wild with no way to guarantee their survival.Dumbest fucking thing I've heard. Most slaves were just captured people who had a degree of self sufficiency before.
>>279670219>None of that shit happens because medieval societies didn't base their economy on slaves.Good thing we aren't talking about historical medieval Europe, but about isekaislop fantasy settings that do in fact rely on slavery to a varying degree
>>279670206Serfdom may be shit, but it's still not as bad as slaver. Small consolation to the people suffering under it I know, but there are fundamental legal distinctions and privileges that make it measurably better off. Your pic is also kinda misleading because that is not at all how serfdom worked in the majority of places.
>>279650536 (OP)because if the writing was any good it would never have been an isekai in the first place
>>279670385You say that, yet when slavery comes up you seem to treat it as the worst case you can imagine and not the strictly limited contractual slavery like in
>>279664154 for example.
>>279670189>Redistribution. Break up the great slave plantations into the metaphorical "40 acres and a mule" and give them to the freed slaves, which has the added benefit of creating a new class of freedmen who are politically loyal to youSo you just take shit from it's rightful owners to suit your own morality? Yeah that won't blow up in your face.
>>279670385>Serfdom may be shit, but it's still not as bad as slaver.I'm sure many Russians would disagree.
>>279670480>Isekai power fantasy hero>Things blowing up in your faceAlso lol at "rightful owners" more like "how dare you take from me the things I stole"
>>279670516Russia was considered a barbaric even by the standards of other feudal societies. Their form of "serfdom" was far different from what existed in any other European feudal society. And even then Russian serfs had rights like not being bought and sold, actual slaves, called Kholops, actually could be and the serfs were well aware of the distinction.
>>279670474Serfdom by definition is about you having more rights than a slave. Serfdom is harder to abuse and so in the vast majority of cases it's preferable to be a serf than a slave. A society with a shitty serfdom will be even worse for their slaves.
>>279669972nta but see
>>279665838If you want a serious answer
>ban sale of new slaves>ban child slavery>give slaves legal protections>force slave owners to pay their slaves a monthly stipend>give slaves the ability to buy back their freedom
the face of mercy
his compassion is boundless like the buddha's
>>279650604Giving internet to browns was a mistake
>>279671198Michio kind of looks like Subaru in this pic.
>>279650536 (OP)Because most slaves were enslaved for a good reason and, if freed, would need to be executed in order to not spread ruin to the land with their wicked practices. The MC doesn't want to be responsible for that.
>>279655306... Isn't that kinda what Overlord is minus the space fantasy stuff.
>>279651026Just so you know.
>>279667703You're confusing labor with slavery. They're not the same. There's still slavery in some part of the planet but your poorly paid job with an angry boss is not slavery. Stop being overdramatic.
Surprised this thread is so good. Some peabrains are using the word "wish fufillment" seriously but toher than that 9/10
>>279667583Because automation has reduced the relative value of simple human labor.
We have the opposite problem of the ancients: Not "who will work the fields", but "how can we keep retards employed", because the jobs they could do, don't exist anymore.
>>279667865what fart sniffing bullshit is this
>>279670385Even up to the Crimean War, Russia still practiced serfdom, and it was fucking awful.
>>279662365If the people are made of mana and automata consume mana that just makes things even more concerning.
Opens up potential for stuff like the Tales of series where mana permeates the world and its people but eventually someone makes magic weapons, magic lamps, magic machines, etc, which isn't too big a deal, the world can handle it. It's when someone thinks "oh, mana is literally infinite. That means I can make a gigantic canon that can destroy cities with no energy costs" and then they fire the canon and realize that, no, mana is not infinite, you done fucked up and the world is dying because the continued mana-tech escalation outstripped production. Now all the automata and machines shut down and the crops die and the world goes into a dark age period for hundreds of years till it recovers and hundred of years later someone inevitably invents a new mana cannon and so it repeats.
>>279675609Just like in SMT Strange Journey, humanity never learns.
>>279659211Doesn't work like that.
The USA can't even invade some latino shithole like venezuela because alliances are crucial and perceived social word of mouth will change the war and economic stances.
No one wanted to team up with trump in his 1st term to overthrow venezuela so nothing happened despite the war being an easy win on paper.
>>279675354And as horrible as it was, even by the standards of serfdom, it still wasn't as bad as actual for real slavery. There was a reason no Russian serf wanted to be a "Kholops"
>>279671198Slavery is good cause I can buy a big titty dog girl is a valid argument btw
Is she used goods as well?
>>279678055This so much and that's the only thing that matters!
>>279670385>>279677539What's generally overlooked is the type of slavery impacts treatment, in societies where slaves can essentially do any job they have a bit more mobility, sometimes ending up in relative high places, like Morocco's Black Guard or the Ottoman's Mamluk's where the military status could give them power or a . If it was like Brazilian or Caribbean slavery, where slaves are cheap due to how easy it was to sail from African slave ports, a slaves life holds little to no value, as it's cheaper to work them to death and replace them with new batches than it is to ensure their survival.
At best a slave can end up in a politically important position, and at worse fodder.
>>279650536 (OP)Why would you want to end slavery? Owning a slave harem sounds dope.
You couldn't convince me that a series about ending slavery wouldn't be the gayest most unreadable politically correct moralfaggot power fantasy shit ever conceived. I can imagine the title now...
>"I was Isekai'd to Another World to Defeat the Demon Lord with my #1 Strongest Cheat Skill but I'd Rather End Slavery so Now I Punch Nazis in the Face!?"
>>279661671National
>Socialist>Right wingGet on my level pleb
>>279679286This.
But it's an interesting fact that in the early days of colonial America, slaves were often treated better than indentured servants.
While the latter had to be fully exploited (often meaning: "worked to death") within their contract period, the former were a permanent asset to their masters that at least deserved some care.
Generally there is no way to say that "slavery is always like this".
There were certainly slaves in ancient Rome, who led much better lives than the average (poor) Roman citizen.
The thing that makes slavery bad is not what commonly happens to slaves, but what could happen without any consequences.
>>279679527It's a general pet-peeve I have with historical fiction (or quasi-historical in the case of isekai) that authors pack too much of their own morality into their characters.
A modern guy isekaied to ancient Rome and abhorred by slavery there - plausible.
An ancient Roman believing that you should treat your slaves well - also plausible.
An ancient Roman ready to go on a crusade to end slavery once and for all - not plausible.
Even slave revolts like the Spartacus rebellion didn't have a problem with the institution itself, just with the fact that they were slaves themselves and the conditions under which they were living.
>>279672866>retarded web comic authorYeah fuck off
>>279650705In history, it took a very specific Christian culture--specifically, England--that was also getting rich on trade and didn't have a great need for domestic slave labor. These circumstances allowed a tiny abolitionist movement to grow; slowly at first, and faster over time. It was also tied into England's move from a feudal monarchy with a very strong king into a parliamentarian system with an increasingly-weaker monarch (by Victoria's death, it was almost a figurehead position).
All of that is backdrop from a mass movement to ban slavery as being anathema to Christianity. Which spread to His Majesty's American Colonies and took root (mostly in the North, of course).
Slavery was not ended because everybody decided it was immoral and against human rights. It was ended because the RN and USN, the two most powerful navies of the 19th and 20th centuries, all but declared war on any ships caught carrying slaves (the latter actually began to join in prior to the USCW).
If you don't have that peculiar combination--a religion or other mass movement that declares slavery immoral and works to abolish it, a populace that is generally willing to go along with the abolitionists or at least stand aside, a government that is captured or persuaded by the movement into making abolition into law, a military willing and able to enforce said law... it's hard to get rid of slavery.
Note that for all that people like to pretend that we've "evolved" past slavery, it still exists *today*. It's just moved underground, hidden as much as possible from powers like the US that consider its very existence to be an offense and have the ability to make life unpleasant for said offenders.
Now look at your standard fantasy world. What are the odds that it has *any* of those characteristics, much less all of them? Sure, it's certainly possible to create a fictional world where everyone thinks slavery is bad, but that leans into fantasy moreso than history.
>>279650536 (OP)The people writing and consuming this stuff have the moral compass of a bug.
>>279680057I feel like a huge problem audiences and creators have these days is that they seem to have a very difficult time separating their own reality from the reality of the fiction they consume to a point where it feels like they can't seem to separate fiction and reality at all. Like we can argue real world morality all we want but ultimately this is still just silly fiction. Nobody's actually suffering.
>>279680117The necessary condition for ending slavery was the industrial revolution.
Coal, steam and oil are ultimately easier to handle than humans.
>>279650577>many great empires were built because of slavery >and all started to decline when slavery was abolished or minimizedif it depended on slave labor then it wasn't all too great in the first place now was it
>>279680057>An ancient Roman ready to go on a crusade to end slavery once and for all - not plausible.Romans joined Spartacusโ slave revolt
>>279667648Who animated this glorious scene?
>Slavery
>Unproductive
Laughable.
A lot of the upheaval in the 1st century BC in Rome was because the Senate estates grew so fucking fat on the back of slavery that small free land owners couldn't compete anymore. Then their land was bought out from under them or seized because they went into debt and the Senate estates got even bigger. This only really gets corrected by bloody murder of Senators and the forcible seizure/breakup of their estates during the Triumvirates.
The only thing that makes slavery no longer economically viable is infant mortality falling to industrial levels and the machines of industrialization itself. Because a tractor or two is ultimately cheaper and more productive than 2000 serfs.
Traditionally anti-slavery sentimentality was like the Roman one, not abolitionist movements at all but rather protectionist legislation for more minor citizens. Societies that placed value in the civic backbone a citizen (or freeholder later) class represented and not a total slave/patrician society.
>>279680701Which wasn't a revolt against the institution of slavery, but only against the conditions on the latifundia.
>>279680881The deciding factor was not slavery, but economies of scale.
A large farm with division of labor and a bit of capital (irrigation, tools) is naturally more productive than a small one.
>>279650536 (OP)>>279650604There is no debate. Isekai slavery is objectively a good thing.
kek
md5: 68501b54155882f94cd6028a0b85d3cd
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>>279650536 (OP)>slavery bad threadNo its just inherent to capitalism.
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