Thread 279760573

What is actually up with this? What happened with Goku, Kenshiro and Baki type of protagonists?

>>279760573 (OP)
>Goku, Kenshiro and Baki
They're not SOL/romcom MCs for one thing.

>>279760573 (OP)
What are you 9?

>>279760573 (OP)
Men want to self insert as left too.

Let's get this question over with: what the fuck actually is a self-insert? So many people use this term in so many differing ways that it doesn't even seem like it zeroes in on a specific archetype.

>>279761048
I rarely self-insert. Instead I create my own OC and put him into the story somehow in my mind.

>>279760573 (OP)
This is such a retarded comparison. There's plenty of overpowered attractive male characters in action/isekai/fantasy anime, but for romance the self inserts are obviously closer to what the reader is, some nerdy otaku guy, so that the readers can feel "If that guy can be in a relationship so can I".

Read / Watch Undead Unluck you fucking uncultured swine.

>>279760573 (OP)
Boys are ridiculed for wanting to see an idealized version of themselves, so the bland MC is pushed by self hating males who hate fun
Girls on the other hand are encouraged to do it since it gives them a sense of empowerment

>>279760622
I would definitely read a SoL/romcom starring Goku, Kenshiro, and Baki (or similar enough knockoffs)

It sure is summer

>>279760573 (OP)
I self-insert as the one on the left.

>>279761048
The original meaning of self-insert was the author writing themselves into the story. It really had nothing to do with the reader or viewer whatsoever.
In the past like decade or so, the way people use it nowadays is to tear down a character for being a vehicle to make the viewer feel good
>he's a loser but he gets a bunch of girls and superpowers? he's a self-insert!
>he's a loner that's actually super cool and strong? self insert!
>he's competent, capable, and focused? self-insert!
And so on. It's basically been reduced to a buzzword

>>279761402
me on the bottom

>>279761497
So in other words, it should never be taken seriously as a critique. Just like when people complain about something having too much "fanservice" (they mean ecchi) or being edgy.

>>279760573 (OP)
The male self-insert is often a mediocre representation, a completely banal male character, because boys want to be appreciated and, above all, loved as they are, for who they are.

>>279761048
>self-insert is when the writer inserts themselves into a story
any story that has the MC basically be a soapbox for the author to spout some bullshit
>audience self insert is when a character is supposed to be the audience
so your average isekai protag, harem protag and hentai protag
it's that simple, retard

>>279761742
>so your average isekai protag, harem protag and hentai protag
Damn, it really is about being an insult for characters people don't like.

I hate boring protags that are stand in for audiences
All protags should be cool and interesting or on a journey to becoming cool and interesting

>>279760573 (OP)
I never self-inserted. I mainly idolized heroes in shonen like Naruto and Goku when I was little, as someone to aspire to be. And I think a lot of males are the same way.

Show the main love interest for the series on the left.

>>279761945
No.

1. Men hate men and women hate men
2. Men love women and women love women

The only way out of this cursed loop of deep-seated misandry?
...Don't ask me, all I can do is watch you morons seethe every time a guy appears onscreen and either is or isn't Chad (it doesn't matter, you'll be seething anyway because of point #1)

>>279762319
>1. Insecure fags hate men and women hate insecure fags
FTFU

>>279762385
Case in point

>>279761430
The SoL arc after cell with DK Gohan and JK Videl is one of the most memorable parts of DBZ for me. They were really cute. It could work.

>>279760622
/thread

>>279762319
The funny thing is women hate women too, men are just too stupid to see it so women can also confidently close ranks against men by pulling a front of solidarity because men are fundamentally less social.

>>279761342
I want to like this but I hate that she cut her hair.

>>279760573 (OP)

In our time, it is no longer possible to write and portray shonen heroes like Goku, Kenshiro, and Baki. This limitation stems from a structural factor of shonen: its target demographic, historically composed of young boys, which strongly influences the way heroes are portrayed.

Dragon Ball, Hokuto no Ken, and Baki are archetypal manga of the shonen nekketsu genre, which is primarily and directly aimed at a male audience. However, masculinity is not a fixed identity; it has changed over time (to say the least), influenced by several external factors (cultural, social, economic, etc.).

It therefore becomes difficult to justify or reproduce the old traditional male archetypes in a modern shonen, as they no longer correspond to the diversity and sensibilities of the modern audience.

>>279760573 (OP)
welcome to clown world.
also shoujo>shounen.

>>279762531
She grows it back in the latter half of the series.

>>279762580
That's a lot of words to say that current year men have become weak and effeminate.

>>279761048
Another tricky thing is knowing that a self insert is not necessarily an audience surrogate

>>279760923
I'm the guy that got kicked against the wall xD

>>279762531
filtered
Fuuko is one of the best short-haired girls of the past two years

>>279762319
>Men hate men
Wrong. All my favorite characters are men. All my favorite creators are men. Almost every friend I've had has been male. AGP freaks like you hate men, or more specifically, hate themselves.

>>279762906
You lack reading comprehension if you don't see that I'm lamenting this fact rather than proclaiming my own beliefs

>>279762906
>All my favorite characters are men. All my favorite creators are men. Almost every friend I've had has been male.
Chances are, you'll betray all of them for a crumb of pussy
This isn't me projecting, it's just from observation of life

>>279763868
>>>/r9k/

>>279761048
I find that people tend to use "self-insert" to refer to 3 different kinds of characters nowadays.
There's the old original meaning where the author themselves write a story where the main character is basically just supposed to be them.
There's the middle era meaning which refers to characters who are so bland and devoid of distinguishing traits that any person is meant to be able to imagine themselves in that character's shoes and experiencing what they experience.
And then there's characters who are impossibly perfect and get everything they want in life exactly how they want it and everybody loves them and they're the strongest and the best they have all the powers and get all the girls and they can do anything and nobody can stop them and did I mention they're perfect? A character that isn't meant to be relatable, but instead you're supposed to imagine yourself as them as a form of escapist fantasy.

All 3 can logically be interpreted as a self-insert character but for different reasons. It would probably be best if everyone could agree on different terms for these kinds of characters to prevent confusion during discussions, but such is the internet.

>>279764234
The third one isn't a self insert it's a Mary sue

>>279764313
True, but obviously most people read those kind of stories because they wish they could be just like the Mary Sue and experience the same perfect life that they get to, so you can see why people started calling them "self inserts" as well.

>>279761048
It's when the character you write resembles yourself in too many ways, like how all of Stephen King's characters are alcoholic writers.

>>279760573 (OP)
Because real fiction is men being accepted for who they are.

>>279764234
>There's the old original meaning where the author themselves write a story where the main character is basically just supposed to be them.
No, not the main character but just a character within the story. Like Helmholtz in Brave New World isn't the main character, but he's Huxley's self insert. To me this is the real term despite what retards on the internet think (most of them are brown ESLs so not surprising they don't know) and what you describe as the third kind is really just a corruption of the term and could better just be described as a power fantasy character.

What you describe as the middle era I can only really think of in RPGs with voiceless protagonists in video games. Not sure I can think of any anime or books that fit that.

>>279760573 (OP)
It's a part of the feminist agenda designed to eliminate masculinity. Since all of their idols are weak effeminate men who never improve themselves they too are encouraged to accept mediocrity. It's the same reason why every year there are more slutty women x virgin male stories, they are trying to normalize accepting used women.

Who's the manliest male protagonist to star in a anime in the last 10 years?

>>279762319
>Men love women and women love women
women hate women

>>279760573 (OP)
I self insert as a lesbian woman though

>>279760573 (OP)
Real men self insert as Yujiro, Great General Kanki, or Bejita. The rest are dickgirls.

>>279764381
It goes further than that, usually. What really grinds people's gears is if the character gets preferential treatment.

>>279764516
Well, it's not like a virgin man will get dates any other way.

>>279761048
It's a retarded term that doesn't mean anything. Retards calls every characters "self insert" nowdays if they got the xy chromosome.

>>279764676
Is your favorite series by any chance Mushoku Tensei?

>>279761342
I just don't like seeing naked men.

>>279764313
To me mary sue kind of implies the first meaning

>>279764740
The first and third can easily overlap.
If an author is only writing a story to fulfill his own personal power fantasy, and it attracts an audience of people who read it to also imagine themselves in the same power fantasy, then it becomes a self-insert story for author and reader alike.
In fact that's probably how it usually happens.

>>279764697
>you think this term is a meaningless insult? Let me insult you by implying you like a bad series
Way to prove his point.
Explain the difference between calling an MC a self-insert and calling an MC a fag or a tranny or any buzzword insult of the day.

>>279764819
Ok.
A fag is a homosexual.
A tranny is a person who pretends to be the sex they are not.
And my personal definition of the different kinds of self-inserts can be found here
>>279764234

Does that clear things up?

>>279764784
The first one doesn't have to be power fantasy, though. There's times when an author has a self insert character not for power fantasy, but more to just voice his actual ideas into explicitly into the story. And a power fantasy main character can simply be called a power fantasy main character. The thing is, most main characters are meant to be the reader's vehicle into the world and you are supposed to empathize and root for them. Anyone cynical enough can then call any main character a self insert because of that, and that is how the term has been corrupted now.

>>279764861
>A fag is a homosexual.
this is already wrong
a fag is op

>>279764697
Why must you assume that everyone that disagrees with how you butcher words must be some fan of a series you have an unhealthy grudge against?

>>279761048
This word originated amongst fanfiction writers who would sometimes unapologetically write and publish a sex fantasy involving themselves and the fictional character in a first person story where the POV character is practically never even established. This was seen as a bad thing because you typically don't want to read some other man's fap smut because it will contain a bunch of retarded shit that only he's into and the dialogue would often be unconvincing and cringe and it's boring and something you could just do yourself. On some occasions these fanfiction authors would go on to become real authors and it's possible that this behavior would leak through into their own work.

Eventually this word was co-opted by slack jawed retards and hammered into shit and became synonymous with "any character I don't like". We are now rapidly making progress towards a place where "self insert" just means "male character". On /a/ and similar places where everyone is insane, there is a contingent of people who use "self inserting" as a phrase synonymous with "daydreaming about sex" in order to make it seem like a bad thing no matter how much intentional sex appeal is in the show itself, because they themselves are only capable of daydreaming about fictional characters having sex with other people.

>>279765121
>>279765195
The MT fans have arrived.

>>279765246
Never watched a single episode of MT. You seem psychologically scarred by that series, seek help.

>>279765246
I swear I remember reading somewhere that the author of MT wrote fanfiction for ZnT before writing MT and it was the same for the guy who made ReZero. He is probably literally one of the people I'm talking about. You seem mentally unwell.

>>279761402
Well, it depends on what circle you're in in the first place. Steer clear of any Western ones.

>>279765280
>>279765323
Allow me to correct myself.
The MT fan (singular) has arrived.

Yeah, definitely mentally unwell.

>>279761048
would NPD cope fantasy be a better terminology for this then?

>>279760573 (OP)
To me, a self-insert is not really about what an author/work is doing (although you could define it that way), but more about how a viewer relates to a character. Do they view them as an extensions of their own emotions and desires, wishing they would go through some of the same experiences themselves? And I don't necessarily have a problem with this. My issue is that the audience for a lot of popular manga have desires and wants in romance that I find extremely frustrating from a storytelling perspective, and because these desires seem to popular, they tend to get used a lot in romance manga.

>>279761048
To me, a self-insert is not really about what an author/work is doing (although you could define it that way), but more about how a viewer relates to a character. Do they view them as an extensions of their own emotions and desires, wishing they would go through some of the same experiences themselves? And I don't necessarily have a problem with this. My issue is that the audience for a lot of popular manga have desires and wants in romance that I find extremely frustrating from a storytelling perspective, and because these desires seem to popular, they tend to get used a lot in romance manga.

>>279765597
Unless it’s a tragedy or pointlessly mundane slice of life, then someone is bound to want to go through the some of the same experiences as the characters. This is why your definition is retarded and why people can call most any main character a ‘self insert’ and why it’s basically nothing more than a pointless insult.

>>279765728
>why people can call most any main character a ‘self insert’
Again, I don't believe that characters themselves are self-inserts. It's how about an audience is relating to that character. Bringing up the example of MT earlier, I wouldn't say that that Rudy is a self-insert, but many fans are clearly self-inserting into him (which again, isn't bad by itself). It becomes a problem for me when both the series becomes a vehicle for all the audiences' desire (to which are heavily emotionally invested in) and when those desires conflict with sensible story developments.

I also think this hyper-criticism towards the term is a bit unfounded. While it's true that it gets misused, these same people offering criticisms of the word seem to know exactly what the term means when they see an audience self-inserting into a character in a way they do not. Imagine if there was some used goods anime with a slut FeMC with a large female audience that held up the protagonist in a similar way. I think a good portion of these people criticizing the term would easily label that behaviour as self-inserting without a second thought.

>>279765970
>I also think this hyper-criticism towards the term is a bit unfounded
If you see someone irrationally and very angrily lashing out at the very term self insert itself, you can probably bet it's because they're exactly the kind of person who does it, and they don't like being called out.

>>279765970
>Imagine if there was some used goods anime with a slut FeMC with a large female audience that held up the protagonist in a similar way.
I get your point but as a man I would never ever walk over to shoujo and start bitching about what's going on over there because it's not my place.

>>279760573 (OP)
Bait image yes i know but have you never seen any fucking shoujo or otome property? The MCs are all bland as regular girls.

>>279761136
Oh hey, me too. I wonder how common this is.

>>279760573 (OP)
Well first you need to stop trying to find them in shonen romcoms or isekai, also
>female self insert
You've never read an actual female self insert shojo or josei manga in your life

>>279761136
I do this a lot too. In harem stories, I become some guy in MC's class but I go out with the background cuties who look cuter than the main girls.

>>279761136
Same, only I use bots to live out my fantasies with a single girl or if I want to write a story I autism Chat GPT or Grok to write me a fanfiction with myself as the protag and revise and correct it until it gives me the chapter of the story I want and exactly how I want it or imagine it.

>>279760573 (OP)
Image confuses "relatable" with "self-insert".

>>279761136
I used to do that as a kid. I pretended I was a blue Inuyasha or a Goku clone, though.

>>279766411
Why don't you just write it yourself
Always more satisfying that way (this comes from someone who's written more than 100k words of private fanfiction with the aid of ChatGPT)

>>279761136
I'm self-inserting into this post because that's literally exactly like me.

Most male readers are, for a lack of a better term, losers that rely on escapist fantasies to get by everyday. And while they do want to self-insert as a cool male mc, a male character that looks and acts too cool can take them out of their immersion because they feel like they can't possibly compare. Therefore, the self-insert's ideal male mc has to be a plain jane in everything, so the reader can self-insert better without feeling self-conscious about it. This is why a lot of isekai mcs have typical dull designs and personalities.

>>279761136
I do this whenever I feel like a show wasted a concept somewhere, so I just make up an OC with their own storyline that explores it. (Who I can also self insert into)

>>279761497
last I checked... every single main character should ideally be someone the viewer can relate to and associate with. That's just good story telling.

>>279761136
>>279766682
Rediscovered the premise of mob chara/villainess/shoelace isekai award

>>279766672
holy surface level

>>279760573 (OP)
>making this same thread again
fuck off

>>279766903
Never made it before schizo
YOU fuck off

yall ever stop and look at asukas moves? dude has books coming out of books.

>>279767193
wrong thread, oops.

>>279760573 (OP)
Many males self insert as the left too tho

>>279761342
Me but it's a LO rather than JUMP sloppa

>>279761048
Are you asking for the real meaning, or are you asking for what everyone using it actually means?
The real meaning is a character based on the author. Where the author inserts themselves into the story. This generally holds a negative connotation because of immature authors who insert themselves as the coolest and best person ever.
The way it's being used here is a character which is designed for the audience to imagine themselves in the character's place. The proper term for this is "audience surrogate". But people generally use "self-insert" because it already holds the negative connotation, and because audience surrogates are commonly used as a form of wish fulfillment, they tend to get a treatment similar to self-inserts.
Note that the real meaning and the common meaning are not mutually exclusive. A character can be both, or it can be impossible to tell which one, when the author is trying to appeal to an audience with similar tastes.

>>279764313
I'd argue that most Mary Sues are self-inserts of either the first or second variety.
Either the author writing themselves to be perfect and have a perfect life, or stories where the intended way to enjoy them is to imagine yourself being the MC who's perfect and has a perfect life.

4chan lived long enough for someone to post here a screenshot of a repost from another site that was originally a post from here

>>279768159
been that way for 9 years now newfag

I don't know why but this fiction conflating with reality argument goes a lot deeper than simple "I want to live through fictional story of a bland character that is literally me"

>>279768188
i actually been here since 2016 so im an electionfag ok?

these types of genuinely shitty low-quality threads can only be made near and during summer season.

>>279768257
Silence child

>>279768279
Show an example of a high quality thread

>>279768362
you need to be 18 to post here you know? im not a child

>>279768459
>Implying people under 26 are anything but children
>Implying it has anything to do with age
Hold your tongue boy

>>279768599
child literally means a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority you know? its on the first page of google

>>279768599
T. 27 year old

>>279761048
"A self-insert" would be a character that is an avatar for the author, like Tori-bot.
The way it’s used on this board is just yuri trannies seething at male characters and people who find them relatable or ship them with girls.

>>279760573 (OP)
Toriko

>>279760573 (OP)
They got too overdone. Viewers began becoming aware that they were self-inserts and felt ashamed trying to project themselves onto such a high bar. Nowadays it's easier for a more "self-aware" viewer to project on a character that shares more traits with them. Characters like Subaru are popular because viewers see his pathetic side and think "Yeah, that's just like me." But it's not like there's no classic projection characters still. Garbage like Solo Leveling is popular because there are still people who like to imagine themselves as the chad who was mistreated by the world and now insta-kills everything while spouting cool one-liners.

I don't know what you are talking about. Everytime I make a self-insert is the crazy comedic idiot, the chair and computer guy or the tall, strong, silent but "wholesome" tank who is a secondary character

>>279769353
Solo Failing also had the classic "nerd becomes chad" shit too.

>>279761048
Is a self-insert notably different from a point of view character? Cause like. There are a million high quality stories and pieces of fiction out there where the protagonist is basically meant to be a vehicle for the audience to see themselves in.

>>279771051
Yeah, but it's much more of a cheap classic underdog backstory rather than the emphasis of the character himself. It's there to justify that character's angst towards the world. It sort of teases a revenge fantasy in the sense of "Yeah, society never appreciated me! If I had power I'd show them!" Comparatively the beta nerd MC is meant to have consistent failures and flaws for the self-inserter to keep identifying with. They may improve over time, but the emphasis is more on the progression than the result. The point is to avoid being TOO cool and powerful because being too obvious may prompt a more "self-aware" viewer to reject them as blatant power-fantasy bait.

>>279771228
"Self insert" only gained a negative connotation when tumblrtards flooded this board in the early 2010s

>>279760573 (OP)
>live in modern society where masculinity is shunned and femininity is praised
>this reaches the shonen genre and women demand every men be twinky, skinny bishies that they can dress as.
>the few shows with masculine protags like baki or jojo must include homoerotic undertones to placate this demographic
>its either watch these shows or go full tranny and watch cgdct
grim

>>279762728
>virgin Kita vs chad Rishe

>>279761402
is the kid getting raped

>>279772366
>virgin Kita: forces herself on Bocchi while insensitive to her trauma, destroyed both their virginities
>chad Rishe: saving it for reciprocal love post-marriage, has incredibly core strength due to her physical fitness

>>279761136
SAME

>>279774885
She's spent it over the last 30 years of looping. She;s ready to settle down now with A.H.

>>279761048
A vicarious stand-in for the viewer; a character that the audience can see itself being, both objectively (viewpoint) and subjectively (relatability). Some characters exist entirely for the audience to self-insert into (teleological), but in of itself the status of a "self-insert" is as subjective as that of a "waifu" or "husbando". Most self-inserts aren't teleological ones, but simply the viewpoint characters of their respective stories. In romances it's especially common for viewers to ship two characters, self-insert as one of them, and then waifu/husbando the other.

>>279761136
This kind of OC self insert being made canon is one of the things that ruined Fire Emblem. Always better to leave it to your imagination.

pic related is literally me

>>279761266
Why didn't the thread end here?

>>279760573 (OP)
Right is legit cute though

>>279760573 (OP)
fixed

>>279776784
>nerd mob x nerd mob
The purest of romance couple.

>>279776907
Looksmatched couples arent realistic

>>279765226
Technically Phos is a guy (HnK uses male nouns for the Gems in JP), but he's a literal rock.

>>279760573 (OP)
I wanted to say the usual line about trannies and autogynephilia or simply how jerkoffs have turned cute girl into a winning formula 100% of the time, but the truth is that true heroes don't work anymore because everyone is extremely aware of how vapid and stupid and unworthy of justice this world really is and when a character is too heroic it's just too difficult to suspend disbelief.
This is why reddit Game of Thrones slop where everyone is a cynical asshole has conquered audiences. A lead like Kenshiro today would be seen as comical and autistic.
>but there are many shonenslop characters who act for le justice
Yes but it's from the purely functional angle of creating a harmonious society. It's more like "I gotta do my part" than "I'm gonna fix shit". Even the superhero is reduced to a cog in the machine and if you think about it, it's paradoxically a far more individualistic take than something like Kenshiro who's working toward objective justice. When Kenshiro sees a vile piece of shit he fucks his face up and tell him he deserved it before he explodes. Modern anime character is like "aww you poor weewee you were misunderstood weren't you?" and there's this bittersweet cope telling you that you gotta work for society anyway, when the villain tells you his sad backstory it's 100% fucking fake bullshit all the time, it's just a way to say you gotta do it not because it's the right thing to do but because that's what makes the world go round and gives you a place to be. The only people who would be fine with this are hyper-individualists who put their place in the world before what is right, which is smashing the fucking villain's face and giving him a humiliating one-liner before the croaks.

>>279776967
Shut up nerd. A gyaru will never fall in love with you.

>>279776967
>had beautiful gf
>people constantly asked if we were brother and sister
>thought it was hot
>never dared to ask for roleplay
my second biggest regret in life is never asking my girlfriends to work with my fetishes

>>279760573 (OP)
Male fantasy: They are surrounded by women who for whatever reason are still drawn to them despite a middling physical appearance and feats of masculinity and strength are basically just granted to them freely as cheat powers or being the specialest (un special) boy.
Comes from a deep desire for power and change that doesn't have the cost of having to actually DO anything but want it, not even needing to learn to flirt well.


Female fantasy: Instantly put themselves on the level of beauty and desirability physically that puts them at a level so high that common men's lives will be changed by just getting the chance to interact with them. While they probably may also get some level of power, it usually comes with a lot of stipulations that will enable them to still rely on their chosen men for protection, ensuring she still gets to see men battle for her while not having to feel like she could instantly solve the issue herself.
Comes from a desire to be the most desired and sought after. Sometimes with the same stipulation of not actually having to change their physical appearance much due to the magic nature of the fantasy. IE: Think of those manga where they feel the need to repeatedly bring up how the Femc is plain or not that hot and yet every highest quality man is still drawn to her.


Both come from a wishful fantasy place where they want the maximum result for the minimum change to themselves. But there is the subset of stories where uggo main character gets an iseki glow up or w/e to cater to the audience that VERY MUCH would like to change their physical appearance.

>>279760923
Is she purposely not killing them? Why is she beating them with her dagger's blade/pommel instead of cutting or stabbing?

>>279761342
That is not how glass works. At the very least it wouldn't ever bring them to a stop. Just his weight alone would completely shatter any and every given pane. Smh.

>>279779899
does baka not filter anymore or is it because he did Smh?

>>279779867
they are the husband's brother's henchmen, bunch of commoner crap not really a threat.

>>279760573 (OP)
Kenshiro isn't really a self-insert. A power fantasy maybe, a role model sure, but a self-insert I don't really think he is. He's too "special" but he also has too many burdens to be a "self-insert" in a relatable way.
Of course, he's based on Bruce Lee, Wuxia in general and a bunch of 80s action movie heroes and so on so he's not exactly the normal dude.

a Kenshiro romcom would be amazing
>you are already mai girl
>rabu rabu rabu rabu

>>279780381
Most Fist of the North Star characters have really strong personalities that can work out to be fun in spinoffs (just take fucking Amiba and his isekai adventure for example), in Ken's case I imagine a romcom for him would work out to be something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8-PXvPjDBs

>>279761048
A 'self-insert' character in Anime, is not an author putting themselves in a story. It is a Mc with no meaningful personal opinions or interest . They are hollow things except for for being everymen, in a world where you can ride dragons, eat exotic animals, do magic, their main goal is to find rice or onions sauce. They won't drink cuz for some reason in a foreign dimension they are beholden to Japanese law. This is why 'Self insert' don't have sex, sex requires personal agency which they do not have. Self inserts are a blank silhouette the reader is meant to inject their own desires into and nothing more

I hate myself so I can't self insert.

>>279760573 (OP)
Just assumed it was reflection of Japan's inability to fuck.

Outside hentai most of male protags are losers.

>>279760573 (OP)
that's not self-insert
self-insert is anything that resembles you

>>279781510
Fucking anons who selfinsert as and get turned into Mia

>>279762319
Women hate women more than men can hate men. funnily enough men "hating" each other is genetically coded rivalry towards each other and they make it clear. women could hate each other's asses for years and still look like friends from the outside. that's why women btfo men on social issues. men HATE other men who they consider less than themselves and constantly belittle them, meanwhile women come together on every social issues and defend even the women who are the lowest on totem pole yet continue hating each other.

>>279760573 (OP)
men are far more realistic and self-aware than women, hence why it is hard
how do you self insert as, ie, Jotaro when you're not a 195cm brick shithouse at age 17
a sane, non gynocentricity brainwashed man, will think think that's cool and may even wish or aspire to be like that
women kind of don't give a shit

>>279761136
Same, I self insert with my D&D character in fantasy settings.
Then if the stars are right we even play in that setting with my friends (currently in mushuku tensei, with characters that came from Grimgar)

Anything that isn't the author inserting himself is only a buzzword and means nothing. How people deal with characters is so different that the author can't know how the audience will react to it, simply see them as characters and nothing more.

>>279783685
This is the correct answer, but retards have been using it wrong for so long that they can't even consider how you're right.

>>279783292
>men are far more realistic
>this ugly fucking loser is going to pull 10/10 whores left and right
YOU RETARD

>>279760573 (OP)
I self insert as Goku because he's a manbaby cuck like myself.

>>279783818
That's only dbs Goku which is Goku for zoomers
Goku for millennials was a real man

>>279783292
>how do you self insert as, ie, Jotaro when you're not a 195cm brick shithouse at age 17
You weren't?

>>279760573 (OP)
you're looking at romance series made for kids and teenagers and asking why the "self insert"(aka what people with a brain call the MAIN CHARACTER) is a nerdy kid or teenager
I think it's pretty self explanatory

>>279760573 (OP)
Men are no longer interested in strength, glory and overcoming the cruel indifference of the universe through the indomitable human spirit, men now just want to be loved.

>>279785205
Too bad 99% of women and 90% of men are incapable of love and just settle for whatever their most beneficial option is.

>>279761742
>>279761807
except your average harem and hentai protag used to be much better

>>279781510
What's the difference between shojo self inserts and yuri self inserts?

>>279781510
Holy shit this may be the first time ever with male self insert winning...

>>279786009
>except your average harem and hentai protag used to be much better
Not by much.

>>279761048
A character that exists for the reader to vicariously live through, see them experience adventures and/or romances they want to experience themselves.

>>279760573 (OP)
When it comes to a romantic comedy, there's a significant chunk of men who feel threatened or insecure by the existence of other men who they envy, so these protags are designed so that they don't remind you of other men in your life. If Paisen was say tall, muscled and dark skin then the crowd would be screaming NTR.

>>279777273
>hyper-individualists
>who put their place in the world before what is right
Do you even know what you're saying? Do you think before you write this slop? You contradict yourself before the sentence even ends, you sad and confused man.

>>279760573 (OP)
I swear I remember seeing a thread like this before

>>279786134
Liking men and women

>>279760573 (OP)
You do realize most women self insert as losers too. Of course not, you know nothing about women.

>>279761136
I always try and become friends with the MC, going on adventures and hijinks together.
...which is why Bakemonogatari annoys me a little.
Araragi fucking HATES men. He's one of the only MCs that I wasn't able to befriend in my head fucking hell. I'd have thought he'd get better after he went to college but nope, his only friends there are girls.
What the fuck

>>279787158
He doesn't have time for inferior men like you, his harem-building instincts require that he clear the area of all other men

>>279787158
>got friendcucked by his own imagination
anon...

>>279787158
anon you are supposed to cuck him

Male self-insert.

>>279760573 (OP)
who cares. you're too mindcucked to do anything about it

>>279787054
>>279787719
No projecting allowed

>>279779840
>Think of those manga where they feel the need to repeatedly bring up how the Femc is plain or not that hot and yet every highest quality man is still drawn to her.
Rumiko’s self inserts are the opposite of this though, they’re plain janes in design yet every male character acts like they’re the hottest piece of ass within a 1000 mile radius and no other girl can ever compete.

>>279760573 (OP)
I get annoyed when people claim that an anime had a girl fall in love with a guy "just because he did something nice to her once" when that's not what happened. They do happen, but not every time. They completely miss and skip the development that went into it.

cool male characters aren't allowed by editorial censorship

having sexo with cute shota clones...

>>279760622
Baki is a BL manga I don't know what you're talking a bout.

>>279787311
I'm male and I want to insert myself into her, so that checks out.

>>279789306
Rance looks like Kazuma

>>279790977
>Kazuma looks like Rance
ftfy

>>279761136
I used to do this when I was a kid lmao

>>279789306
I'm so glad future designs remove away from that crotch guard shit. It looks so ugly.

>>279761136
Same
Having a vivid imagination and living out these kinds of stories in my head was great during long boring rucks

>>279760573 (OP)
>>279780257
Pretty sure characters like Kenshiro and Baki are far more popular among women than your average Isekai protagonist.

>>279789306
It's not like no one has ever tried, they just are not commercially successful.
It's literally their job to recognize this for the mistake it is since they are trying to make money after all.

>>279760573 (OP)
I can only self insert as a side character. What is wrong with me?

>>279793054
Some people are natural followers and honestly there's nothing wrong with that. Not trying to be condescending. In the Old Testament there were rules about what to do with indentured slaves that paid their debt but wanted to stay a slave. Legit just a temperamental thing

>>279787158
dude

>>279760573 (OP)
Wrong.

>>279794199
Wrong, use this for the female.

>>279794306
Kek what is this

>>279760573 (OP)
>read story about school students
>get mad that it's about school students
...

>>279794361
Amnesia Memories, the anime based on the cult classic otome game where your surrogate brother figure locks you in a cage and makes (You) his wifepet. For your own safety of course.

>>279794361
Diabolik Lovers

>>279794199
>random nonsense out of nowhere
You do realize the author of right is male, right?

>>279794199
>random nonsense out of nowhere
You do realize the author of left* is male, right?

>>279794199
>female self insert
Male self insert, actually.

>>279794199
Except women don’t like Yuri, they like Yaoi.
People who like Yuri are normally “men” who aren’t well adjusted.

>>279794667
Women don't like yaoi, you are thinking of rotten women.

>>279794667
Almost all yuri mangaka are female women these days.

>>279794667
Wrong. Many like both.

>>279796813
>Many

>>279760573 (OP)
>What happened with Goku, Kenshiro and Baki type of protagonists?
They work better when you're younger and idolize becoming like them, but they're less relatable when you become a failed adult >>279761402 >>279766672

Most Dragon Ball fans these days say they respect Krillin because he was able to pull 18, but I think the other reason he isn't the fanbase's punching bag is because the average fan relates more to Krillin these days as some average fighter that managed to pull the hottest bitches without being the strongest or the chaddest.

>>279760573 (OP)
What if I self-insert as the narrator instead?

>>279798547
I'd have thought they'd like krillin for being a lifelong friend and ally but "isn't totally useless and pulled a hot chick" does sound more plausible to that fanbase

>>279789499
>Things have become so cringe and gay that sharing a drink with a friend is homo
Jfc, so is Dragon ball bl now? Or JoJo?

Judging by the amount of (You)s, this is unironically a great thread to make as it clearly makes self-inserting beta males incredibly upset. We could use threads like these being made often enough for them to realize how pathetic they are and attempt to change their lives for the better

>>279798813
If he didn't end up with her, the remote scene would have permanently ingrained him as the biggest loser for 90% of the fanbase

>>279798940
You wouldn't get it.

>>279799060
Shut up schizo yuritranny

>>279794199
Hiiragi Utena is literally me. Intelligent, nihilistic and with a wicked sense of humor.

>>279760573 (OP)
I went scrolling through this thread looking for a post I made a few days ago, but then I realized this is a new thread with the exact same OP. Kindly kill yourself.

>>279762728
I'd insert myself into her if you know what I mean

>>279766711
>every single main character should ideally be someone the viewer can relate to and associate with. That's just good story telling.
no that's just how to get popular easy

>>279761136
holy fucking kill yourselves

>>279800362
anon... I know it's hard to believe, but good stories often get popular

>>279760573 (OP)
The majority of male anime fans seem to have bought in to the giga cope of
>effort is for poor people
It's that shit that makes people think Griffith is more relatable than Guts. A contempt for becoming, for trying, for any vitality or forcefulness that could ever be contrasted with death or failure. You are not supposed to try because you could succeed and that would show them up as a failure, not someone who figured out some super intellectual way to win without any winning attributes. They want to be what they think they are right now and if that means being weak, wilfully ignorant, without conviction or ambition and a fat neetcuck parasite then so be it. Anime to them is little more than pornography and that somehow makes them its "gatekeeper" and so shounen, seinen, mecha and any other genre that succeeds at telling a story that doesn't centre their selfish apathy and sexual kinks is "filtered" from being real anime. They asked for boring male MCs because it helps them cope with the fact it isn't what a man is supposed to be.