Thread 279905152

What medium has the best writing? (Anime, Manga, LN, VN)

>>279905152 (OP)
VN by far, at least back in 00s

Manga's the only one that isn't totally bound by industry standards, nowadays i'd say vns though

>>279905152 (OP)
real books

>>279905396
Manga have highly restrictive pagecounts and often suffer under draconian editors besides web manga though, and VNs have been essentially dead for over a decade.

>>279905152 (OP)
From your pic, it seems like you don't actually need to ask. Besides being tied with LNs for the greatest emphasis on writing, it's also the least regulated, most competitive, lacks an "older brother" that sucks up all the real talent, and not being serialized, is the only one that demands completion or permits revision.

>>279905396
>nowadays i'd say vns though
You don't know the kind of slop that comes out these days. You've read read top 3.

>>279905152 (OP)
Easily VN, anyone who says otherwise just doesnt have enough experience with the medium or is an EOP

Definitely not VNs anymore

>>279906074
>Besides being tied with LNs for the greatest emphasis on writing
I used to think like this, but books also have to present its story with its prose, in which case visual media is much more translatable.

>>279906111
>or is an EOP
Name 3 good JOP VNs released in 2025
Maybe in the 00s and early 10s but the industry is pretty much in decline.

>>279906111
>>279905396
Vns are 0/10 slop now and have been for a minute

>>279905152 (OP)
VN > Manga > Anime > LN

>>279906111
>>279905396
>>279906144
Anyone saying VNs has not been paying attention to recent releases lmao
It's not 2009 anymore

VN is the most immersive medium.

>>279906141
>>279906135
These people are newfags who have only read top ones like saya no uta, subahibi, clannad etc

>>279905152 (OP)
VN's and JRPG mog anime and manga in narrative

The only reason anime and manga are more liked is flashy visuals. If you made Xenogears or Full Metal Daemon Muramasa look like a Ufotable or Ghibli production they would be winning Oscars

>>279906155
Why should I care about how recent something is?

>>279906185
Read your second VN lil bro

>>279906135
OVER REQIUEMZ
大穢
レッドベルの慟哭
>>279906141
False

All of them are shit.
Any good Manga is milked to death. Editors lord over mangaka and push for shitty changes.
LNs are filled with harem romcom and isekai fantasy slop.
VNs suffer from "choose your waifu" type structure and padding. Some that don't follow that template are good. The medium's just moege and nukige nowadays anyway.

>VNs suck!
>Doesnt play the majority of the genre, Otome games
Hmmm.. So you play pornslop, get pornslop, and decide the medium sucks as a whole? Interesting

>>279906216
>otome and homotrash
Yeah kill yourself

>>279906141
So we're judging anime by seasonal slop now?

>>279906185
>Post the most overrated tales games.

>>279906246
Today's seasonal anime becomes tomorrow's classic. It's the only way to judge the current health of the industry.

>>279906244
Sorry I guess you would rather play maiden rape assault violent semen inferno instead of reading something actually interesting with a good story. My bad brother

>>279906263
Yeah we should judge literature by looking at smut slop that's released today

>>279906266
There's not a single VN aimed at women/homos that is as good as male oriented kamige like subahibi

>>279906290
Hey, there might be a hidden gem in there.

>>279905152 (OP)
I've only read like five visual novels and they were all better than most anime/manga I have watched/read.
HOWEVER, I do think that I just happened to read the best vns ever and that the rest are just dating sims.
So basically, peak writing goes to vns, consistent writing goes to manga.
(I've never read a LN)

>>279906290
Yeah pretty much everyone agrees that literature is shit. At least we get some good manga/LNs these days but VN industry is just total slop machine nowadays.

>>279906312
bait used to be believable

>>279906292
>subahibi
oh here we go lol

>>279906327
Cope used to be believable

VNs peaked with Muv-Luv Alternative. I knew that nothing will ever rival it after I read it

>>279906332
i'm the one coping about not judging homer by contemporary slop huh?

>>279906351
No one cares about muvluv in 2025

>>279906192
because all the big writers stopped writing VNs since they don't sell anymore

>>279906355
Who is judging homer by contemporary slop(he's overrated btw)? We're talking about the current health of these industries and eroge/literature fell off pretty hard.

>>279906369
yeah last reply

>>279905152 (OP)
I don't know about the best, but manga clearly has the worst.
>volumeshit instead of writing in one sitting
>can't give a long monologue to any character because the audience will complain
>limited not only by author's eloquence, but also by artist's abilites

>>279906266
>otomeshit
>good story
>>279906327

>>279906385
manga is certainly the sloppiest of them all. Popular manga will be milked to the very end with no ending in sight

>>279906359
I know the anime and studio itself murdered it out of sheer incompetence, doesn't change the fact that medium peaked at it

SteinsGate and Higurashi who copied it's formula after all became hits

>>279906364
You're missing the point. Why should I care how recent or not *anything* is? What bearing does that have on a work's quality?

>>279906390
Try actually playing some otome games? You will be pleasantly suprised

WNs

>>279906395
>SteinsGate and Higurashi who copied it's formula after all became hits
We're reaching delusion levels never seen before

>>279905152 (OP)
VN > Manga >= Anime >>>>>> LN

>>279906395
>SteinsGate and Higurashi who copied it's formula after
And both are better than Muv Luv.

Yep it's VNcord raid

>>279906395
You should have said AOT. Isayama even admits it

Top 5 VNs vs Top 5 anime
Which are better

>>279906443
Anime

>>279906441
Cuz he is a Muv-Luv fag and considers it a badge of honor to be influenced by it and Kouki

>>279906310
The dating sim format is basically an omnibus of separate but thematically connected romances. Of course, one route can always be excellent in a vacuum but also uplifted by its connections to the others provided you can get over the awkwardness of them sharing protagonists. Some great ones like Ef and We Without Wings recognize this and cut to the chase by giving every route a different protagonist.

>>279906443
My personal top 5 you mean? Anime

>>279906482
First time I hear about routes sharing their protagonist being an issue

https://youtu.be/EQNdDTdBef0?si=kZpjnWugRqXUmeGq

This will forever not be funny to me

Clannad and Steins;gate's anime adaptations are better than the originals.

>>279906443
Visual novels

>>279906539
You could have figured it out yourself.

>>279906482
>every route a different protagonist.
Asuka, kobato and that menhera share the same protagonist in oretsuba

>it's 2025
>people are still clueless about what datesim is

books

>>279906310
>I just happened to read the best vns ever and that the rest are just dating sims.
The rest are just moege and nukige. There are like 20 good VNs.

>>279906590
Are there 20 good anime?

>>279906482
I actually read Ef and I thoroughly disliked it and it's probably why I don't want to read anymore romance vns.

>>279906185
Lotgh has better writting than any jrpgslop.

Imma go against the grain and say LNs. I would read VNs too if they offered fantasy stuff but it looks like not even isekai has made any inroads to the industry. I only enjoyed muramasa. Call me shit taste faggot or whatever

>>279906590
Name them

>>279906618
logh is only shilled by snob because he thinks it makes him look cool

>>279906443
>Top 5 VNs vs Top 5 anime
>Which are better
I choose both.

>>279906539
I don't care personally, but some people find it cheapens the relationships either because it's harem-adjacent or the heroines are either interchangeable or leave the hero incomplete. People want OTPs and happy ends for everyone.

>>279906576
Split personality doesn't count.

>>279906624
Yeah, there's a real lack of fantasy VN's. Especially those translated into English.

>>279906618
That's an actual novel series so it's not even involved in this discussion.

>>279906624
Read Utawarerumono then. First game is whatever, but parts 2 and 3 are great.

>>279906624
>I would read VNs too if they offered fantasy stuff
Good. VNs are not meant for kids

In terms of actually art the best of anime destroys vns. There are no vns that look as good as Angel Egg, Rose of Versailles, Vhd, 80s ovas in general qnd even sth like Ping Pong. They are different media with different strengths.

>>279906639
>Split personality doesn't count.
Not split personality tho
Oretsuba is more like 3 VNs rather than each route having a different protagonist. It even has 3 common routes combined into 1 where each one has a "different" protagonist.

>>279906670
>in terms of visuals, the visual medium beats the non-visual medium

>>279906624
the fuck you on, you got Rance and Meister series shit

>>279906655
I am talking about the lotgh anime which has better writing than any jrpg. Also add haibane renmei to the mix.
>>279906633
I can make similar statements about xenosaga.

>>279906614
It's soapy as fuck, so I don't blame you. There's a huge spectrum of tones and plots that are generally well-categorized, so you should find something more suited to your taste with some investigation.

>>279906618
>>279906633
Snob admits that Muv-Luv Alternative has been the best VN he ever played and called it the peak of the medium.

>>279906646
>Especially those translated into English.
I'm not sure there are that many untranslated fantasies. There's eushully stuff but the quality is just not good. Alicesoft has rance and other fantasy stuff like evenicle. Overall it's pretty niche.

>>279906684
Vns are visual as well. There are some high budget ones with a lot of fucking cgs.

To compare them you must have experienced every single work of each medium

>>279906687
>Meister
Eushullyge are terrible.

>>279906618
>Lotgh has better writting
>second fall of Iserlohn

Which has better writing cinema or literature?

>>279906728
Even with that it’s still better than 99% of jrpgs.

>>279906733
Manga and anime is a fair comparison. And visual novels suffer from translation which anime doesn't

>>279906638
>posts the most overrated visual novel

You fags have not talked to radioshowfags and musicstagefags when discussing storytelling media. It can get way crazier than just shit like visual novels

>>279906759
but that's umineko

>>279906750
I was talking about vns vs anime which is a retarded comparison. Yeah anime and manga is fair I guess.

>>279906759
It's still good tho

Muramasabro here. Recc me some anime.

>>279906750
are you not aware anime is also translated

>>279906791
Naruto

>>279906733
VNs are not literature. Most of them are not that heavy on narration as a lot of shit is conveyed by minimalistic visuals and audio. Not everyone writes like Mareni or Jackson.

>>279906794
the prose is not translated

>Muramasa
Gasaraki for retards
>Fate/Stay Night, Saya no Uta, Kara no Shoujo
Take inspiration from manga and novels that are more interesting than them
>Dies Irae
Same shit as Hellsing but even more chuuni and retarded
>Troonmineko
Trannies
>Subahibi
Zomg namedropping philpsophers but also gay sex and crossdressing
>Pre-2000s vn
AIDS

If you sincerely believe vns have good narratives you are mentally defunct

>>279906810
Damn. You played a lot of vn

>>279906777
It's like a 7/10 at most, I wouldn't call it good per se.

>>279906699
>mecha boomer thinks mecha-boomer VN that catters to his niche is the peak
but ofc

>>279906791
Naruto is muramasa of animanga medium

Is there an anime more profound than Saya no Uta?

>>279906638
Best anime of all time.

>>279906830
Yea, Madoak Magica

>>279906826
No, you're just hating on it because it's good. It's still better 99% of all VNs. If it's 7/10 then the latest yuzuge should be 0/10.

>>279906806
it is in Monogatari

>>279906840
Same author

>>279906810
Forgot to mention I'm trans BTW.

>>279906638
>Posts the most profound Japanese work of fiction ever made
Yeah I'm thinking VNs win for S;Gs existence alone

>>279906810
I enjoyed all of those. I also noticed you left of Steins;Gate which is the one I didn't enjoy.

>>279906856
>fairy tale for kids is the most profound japanese ficiton

>>279906830
Kamen Rider Gaim

4 people in this thread

>>279906830
Not even urbucchi's best work

>>279906856
Bruh it's just an entertaining thriller. Let's not overrate it by calling it profound.

>>279906830
There's nothing profound about Saya no Uta, It's just shockbait with loli porn and some gore.

>>279905152 (OP)
It's unironically fucking books lol

VN easily

>>279906856
Mogged by Ever 17 easily

>>279906874
>filtered

>>279906881
>>279905399
>>279906583
LNs are books too thobeit

>>279906856
Read your second VN.

>>279906885
What does getting filtered have to do here? It's simply not profound, the vn itself doesn't even pretend to be profound

>>279906903
Okay...

>>279906882
Uhm bro, I like Muramasa as much as everyone but CCS is just slightly better.

Dark novels...
Heavy novels...

>>279906846
I don't have anything against Steins;Gate but yuzuge are actually better on average when viewed objectively, besides the one obligatory dogshit route

Mishima alone mogs your favorite LN/anime/VN/manga/rpgmakerge

>>279906871
>it's just an entertaining thriller
Weird because it wasn't really entertaining or thrilling.

>>279906910
yeah, just like moby dick is just a book about whales

>>279906927
>but yuzuge are actually better on average when viewed objectively
Now you're either baiting or cursed profound shit taste

>>279906885
I've read it like 3 times and enjoyed it but there's really nothing too deep. The Lovecraft stories he borrowed from are much better written but less entertaining.

All you guys brought up in this thread have been 15+ year old VNs

TODOKANAIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
KOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Setsuna > Chiaki > Koharu > Kazusa > Mari

>>279906929
no one's reading that fag

>>279906949
Thoughts on Majikoi?

>>279906856
There's nothing profound about Steins;Gate unless you're a pseud

If we are judging by their lows then vns are doing worse. People complain that there are 100-200 anime released per year but there are like 500-1000 vns released per year. How many of those are the jops reading?

>>279906956
what good anime is there that's < 15 years old

>>279906972
Guess I'm a pseudo intellectual then

>>279906898
They're both books but LNs are generally designed to continue forever while VNs are generally designed to have endings. If VNs are movies LNs are TV.

>>279906979
G-Reco

>>279906972
>There's nothing profound
Apparently it has some deep allusions to islam

>>279906979
Nta but I really really enjoyed 3 gatsu no lion. But I also enjoy all good otaku media in general, be it vns anime manga whatever.

>>279906972
Go back to your moege then if it's too much for you.

>>279906956
Is 13 Sentinels considered a VN? I enjoyed that one a lot

>>279906974
If quantity and quality are inverses of each other (which is nonsense but whatever) it'd still be manga at the bottom

>>279906991
>but LNs are generally designed to continue forever
That's not true outside a couple of super popular series tho

We can agree that original anime and VNs are best in terms of how they're published

>>279906979
Golden kamuy

>all anime shounenshit
>all vns are moege shit
Such an intelectual thread.

>>279907006
I'll go and read something actually good, sure.

>>279906972
It unironically is kinda profound tho, something about not changing gods will then does a 180 thematic shift about manifesting your own reality.
Yeah, kino...

>>279907030
>>all vns are moege shit
not that innacurate desu

>>279907030
All VNs are indeed moeshit and nukishit these days.

>>279907007
Technically no, but it may as well be. Unfortunately, that also means we need to include all the gachashit using the ADV format.

>>279907026
/thread

>>279906979
Dark Gathering

Am I the only one that just enjoys good japanese media in general? This thread feels like a shitty bait.

I wish I wasn't a filthy EOP

>>279907019
A lot of that is cancellation due to lack of interest, like TV shows.

>>279907058
Gaki no Tsukai is better than any anime VN or manga

>>279907058
>Am I the only one
No, the answer is always no.

>>279907069
Takeshi Castle>>>

>>279907036
That ending was such an asspull, Okabe in no way deserved that save out of nowhere.

Does Ergo Proxy match Subahibi's philosophical depth?

>>279907091
No, it's just boring

>>279907088
but it's le hecking foreshadowed

>>279907061
Lmao no
You're confusing manga publication with LN publication.

>>279907091
Haibane Renmei would be closer to Subahibi’s themes.

>>279907061
Yeah well there was no need to end oreimo or iriya no sora or jintai considering their popularity

>>279907105
>>279907088
>One minute
Boom.

>>279907058
Might as well read real books than LN/VNs, whereas anime is not equal to film

>>279907091
No but Lucky Star does. Sca-ji payed his honors to this corner stone of otaku culture.

The only VN I've ever read was DDLC.
When I look at "real" VNs I'm immediately off-put but near triple digit hour lengths and ridiculious route/ending autism.

>>279907135
Read the 8hr ones by Urobuchi

>>279907131
>Might as well read real books than LN/VNs,
Real books don't have cute moe girls, retard.

>>279907131
I read real books and vns/lns and manga and I watch anime.

I like vn's, problem is you get 1 gem out of 10 mediocre ones.
Now i don't even hate the mediocre ones, in fact some basic moege is some of my favorites, but im not going to act like it's a perfect medium with no problems, that's just false.

>>279907147
>Real books don't have cute moe girls, retard.
and how is that better than anime?

>>279907151
>10
Make that 100

>>279907155
They're more like books and the cute moe girls are well-drawn authentic Japanese art rather than choppily animated Vietnamese doodles and you get to see their private parts

>>279905152 (OP)
VN but not saya no midta aka babby first edgy vn

>>279907151
People don't understand how fucking rare and unique VNs like muramasa and subahibi are

>VNDB
1. Steins;Gate
2. Muv-Luve Alternative
3. Umineko
4. Muramasa
5. Subahib
6. Clannad
7. Mahoyo
8. Fate/stay night
9. Higurashi
10. Rewrite

>MAL
1. Frieren
2. FMAB
3. Steins;Gate
4. AoT
5. Gintama
6. HxH
7. LotGH
8. Bleach
9. Kaguya-sama
10. Fruits Basket

>>279907201
All good VNs are baby's first VNs.

>>279907147
>He never read Lolita
I'm being ironic just so you guys know, she was a whore

>>279907243
Muv Luv bros...

>>279907209
I wish I wasn't a filthy EOP and could read Saihate no Ima and be in the cool kids club. I'm kinda tempted to MTL it, but I just know it wont be the same

>>279907243
>nigga slyly removed white album 2 from the list
Lmao

>>279907268
Yeah, I ignored the ones with low votes

>>279905152 (OP)
I find LNs hard to read, even more than your average mediocre book

>>279907243
Nothing in the top 3 of either list is good

>>279907262
>I'm kinda tempted to MTL
Just MTL it with luna+gemini

>>279907209
FWIW the medium only meaningfully existed for about 15 years vs. the others which have been around for over 60. The distribution is relatively fair. Their quality/length also makes up for their scarcity to some extent.

>>279905152 (OP)
it seems a ton of modern animes that are considered 10/10 are originally from VNs
>Steins Gate
>Clannad
>Higurashi
>Fate
>Euphoria

this is not to say the other mediums are shit, rather its to say that VNs are a more meritocratic medium and usually if an anime that is adapted from a Vn will be held in high regard

>>279905152 (OP)
Manga are the best, if you read it all at once instead of weekly.
Original anime are rare and hit or miss.
Light novels suffer from some common story problems. Characters will make the stupidest decisions and spend pages of monologues to justify it.

>>279907279
If 3540 is low then mahoyo should be ignored too

>Most popular
>VNDB
1. Saya no Uta
2. Fate/stay night
3. Katawa Shoujo
4. DDLC
5. Steins;Gate
6. Dangan Ronpa
7. Grisaia
8. Umineko
9. G-senjou no Maou
10. Muv-Luv

>MAL
1. SnK
2. Death Note
3. FMAB
4. OPM
5. KnY
6. SAO
7. BnHA
8. HxH
9. Naruto
10. Tokyo Ghoul

>>279907307
considered 10/10 where?

>>279907307
yeah honestly i think anime would benefit by returning to adapting visual novels

>>279907307
Those are not even considered top anime except for steins;gate...

>>279907324
Seems to me VNs have better babbies first

>>279907318
>Manga are the best, if you read it all at once instead of weekly.
Come to think of it, another problem with manga is how they can take 10+ years to complete and being dependent on one or two authors makes them exponentially more likely to fail as that time passes. Not only are they overwhelmingly inefficient, waiting on them is a tremendous crapshoot compared to any other medium.

>>279907324
>>279907243
I'm not sure this comparison is valid. The popular and highly rated VNs are actually good and is a good representation of quality. You can't say the same for anime. Maybe cause it's the most popular medium and attracts braindead people overrated basic bitch stuff.

>>279907324
>Every anime is a manga adaptation
So manga is the best

>>279907375
Yeah, I forgot to mention that manga tend to suffer from dogshit endings
Anime: usually good ending if original, incomplete if adaptation
Visual novel: good endings
Light novel: will suffer from an entire boring arc before a hit or miss ending

>>279907422
>Anilist
>Originals (Rating)
1. Revue Starlight the Movie
2. Code Geass
3. Link Click
4. Cowboy Bebop
5. Spirited Away
6. Your Name
7. ODDTAXI
8. Evangelion Rebuild
9. End of Evangelion
10. Gurren Lagann

>Originals (Popularity)
1. Your Name
2. FRANXX
3. Code Geass
4. Death Parade
5. Evangelion
6. Spirited Away
7. Cowboy Bebop
8. Angel Beats
9. Charlotte
10. Kill la Kill

>>279907243
>>279907324
>>279907486
None of these are accurate, stop it.

>>279907520
?

>>279905152 (OP)
Actual Novels

>>279907533
Popularity doesn't necessarily equate to good writing

>>279907537
Japan only had one good author thoughbeit.

>>279907243
I don't know what list this is but VNDB has two ways of tracking the 'top' VNs, which is by how many votes it has, and by whatever equation they use to determine good votes per high vote or whatever
>by number of votes
Saya no Uta
Fate Stay/Night
Katawa Shoujo
Doki Doki Literature Club!
Steins;Gate
Danganronpa
The Fruit of Grisaia
Umineko (question arcs)
G-senjou no Maou
Danganronpa 2
>by top voted
Rance X
Steins;Gate
White Album 2
Muv Luv Alternative
Umineko (answer arcs)
Muramasa
Utawarerumono
Ooe
Umineko (question arcs)
Tsukihime
And if you don't like Umineko being on there twice, eleventh is The House in Fate Morgana

>>279907559
Who? Haruki Murakami? Osamu Dazai?

>>279906810
>Same shit as Hellsing but even more chuuni and retarded
That sounds fucking based.

>>279906111
>>279906141
As someone who plays all the new full price VNs that release every month and averages about 20-25 anime a season, you'd really be hard pressed to say current VNs have better writing than current anime - on the whole. Not that I'm that impressed with current anime. Well, anime being a metonymy for all of the mediums which it's being adapted from.
Sadly they're all very incestuous with tropes and you can tell most of the story from the synopsis alone.
On the other hand good VNs tend to have better writing than good anime, currently. Kyokkou no Marriage and Otomeki were both significantly more interesting than the anime I watched last year.
>>279906443
1. Kizu trilogy
2. Gekijouban Revue Starlight
3. Adolescence
4. Zoku Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei
5. Disappearance

1. Kichikuou Rance
2. Tsui no Sora
3. Doukyuusei
4. Shizuku
5. Chaos;Head Noah

I'll add a modifier to this, and say that VNs have the best soundtracks, and Umineko has the greatest OST of all time

>>279907614
>Kichikuou Rance
Been playing this one, and I've been doing a lot of thinking on whether Rance should be classified as a VN series or not. Some are more borderline, but I don't think Kichikuou should, at any rate

>>279906572
Probably not because I see 0 issues with them. They are like what if scenario/ alternateur realities so why would I have an issue with it?
In fact, if they were such an issue why would most VNs choose that approach?

>>279907652
Sure, if the word were used in the strictest sense, I find that it rarely ever is however. Insofar as it's usage is more akin to how the word "eroge" is used in Japan I don't think it's wrong to call Kichikuou a VN.
The Rance series as a whole could certainly be classified as a VN considering the primary method of storytelling is novel-like sequences (in between gameplay) and the games average scripts significantly larger than typical PC games (Rance X being the single longest game and one of the longest published works in history)
The Kichikuou script is nothing to scoff at either, with a script size of 3716kB (compare this to Muramasa's 4137kB for a sense of just how long that actually is)

>>279906688
And where does the logth anime gets its writing from genius?

>>279907820
LoGH is just an otome game

>>279907324
Where Frieren.

>>279907883
in the other list

>>279905274
fpbs

>>279906141
and manga is not? the average vn mogs most manga in terms of writing

>>279906351
Muvluv is a 6/10 with 2 and a half good arcs and a complete wet fart finale. Takeru is such a shitty protagonist and the second half of Alternative is simultaneously rushed and so intolerably bloated that it fundamentally baffles me how it was so highly rated for so long. I actually really like every other VNDB Top 10 title that I've played so I'm not being contrarian either, and I also enjoyed Extra/Unlimited for what they were but the payoff was not worth it. On paper the series has everything (mechs, aliens/kaiju, war politics, timeloops) I enjoy but it never comes together

>>279907979
The vast majority of VNs is moege/nukige slop, plotge (and specifically good plotge) is considerably rarer

>>279908031
The end of muv luv when everyone dies is the best part. Sorry you have shit taste.

>>279905152 (OP)
Older, denpa adjacent and schizo VNs have always mogged every single form of Japanese media (including books) by a large margin. Recently VNs have been getting shittier though the quality of manga, anime, etc has also fallen down a cliff. You still get good VNs every now and then though, the more recent Paranormasight and Urban Myth Dissolution Center were pretty decent. I do think the future if VNs is bleaker than any other since future authors are probably going to be making them based on gacha trash (no, your gacha doesn't have a surprisingly good story. It's just yiu haven't read anything else. Limbus Company has the best writing of any gacha game and it's a 4/10. The best single piece of content in FGO, Avalon le Fay, was a 4/10 AT BEST).

>>279908031
KimiNozo is age's true masterpiece

>Older, denpa adjacent and schizo VNs have always mogged every single form of Japanese media (including books) by a large margin.
I just keked audibly

>>279908093
It's extremely predictable and has zero impact since the harem faded into the background 20 hours ago to focus on the Valkyries (who are all blatantly fodder with Isumi being the only memorable character of the bunch). Takeru is such a fucking loser that the squad collectively (and correctly) assume that he will sperg out and ruin everything if he finds out that things are going south so they have to baby him while dragging him to the final boss over their corpses. This culminates where Meiya has to literally scream for Takeru to kill her over the course of several minutes while he blubbers and cries about shit he is. Won't even get into the 30 minute long infodump of the final twists and the ending reverting all character progress, the only good part of that arc was the opening playing during the initial entry, jamproject is some good shit

If you think shit is good you have been stockholmed into liking it

>>279908217
There has never beem a good VN without at least a little bit of schizo shit in it. And I mean the real shit, not the reddit le quirky ironic shit.

>>27990755
Don't need to though. Children's books I was reading from the middle school school library like Edge Chronicles or Alex Rider or Leviathan or that schoolkid zombie survival series had better writing than 99% of LN/Anime/VN stuff

>>279908233
>Takeru is such a fucking loser
yup, a very good self insert for me

>>279907820
So now you make up restrictions? The novels script was modified for the anime but anyways I can post original anime that mog most of your jrpgs as well.

>>279907200
You've responded to a baiting retarded by posting some cherrypicking shit yourself. There are plenty of great looking anime. Not only that but anime is an older medium so it has way more artistic variety on the whole. Also if I wanted to be rude I could just post an anime from the cel era which has colors that are literally impossible to achieve in the vn medium.

Is 20+2+5 the worst year of animanga in.. Forever?

>>279908522
The worst year for the world forever( at least until 2026).

>>279908522
There is +6 so no don't get your hopes up

>>279908522
There was no manga in 27AD

I don't care about stupid tribal wars, I will still continue enjoying all good otaku media. Also /vn/ is garbage. It feels like a shonen general even though it's supposed to be about """"the best japanese media"""".

manga>LN>anime>VN

And it's not even close

>>279908488
Using writing coming from another medium to judge a medium's writing defeats the whole point of this discussion and the logh script isn't even that much modified anyway. At most you got a handful of episodes that expands on stuff mentionned in the books

>>279908809
But anime is literally a medium about adaptations so they are important as well but fine be it your way, Tehxnolyze, haibane Renmei, Princess Tutu, Paranoia Agent, Utena(has barely anything in common with he original manga).

>>279905152 (OP)
VN in that regard for sure. It's /vn/ talk, but if you are an otaku culture connoisseur AND a dedicated reader, VN is the best-suited medium for you. Music, text, and graphics. The holy triangle never fails to make you feel something if the most important part of that medium, writing is genuine. I think everyone will agree with this.

>>279908897
I prefer just reading books to staring at a screen

>>279908917
But you can also enjoy the fine arts and if you are fortunate, good music that is fitting to particular scenes. The most basic form of video game that is mainly focused on writing. I think it is the best culture that Japan has foregone and genrefied.

>>279909224
I said for commodity, that I prefer reading books but I might look into buying some handheld console to recreate that feeling with vns.
>I think it is the best culture that Japan has foregone and genrefied.
I have to disagree with this. The 80s bubble japan ovas are the peak of otaku culture in my opinion(also had the best character design tropes).

>>279905152 (OP)
Manga for sure.
Anime is more restrictive since is a big collaborative project and more expensive to make.
Only the top 100 or so visual novels are worth reading, the rest are just slop.

>>279907252
That's why you don't read real books for the romance.

>>279909314
>Only the top 100 or so visual novels are worth reading
it is liek saying only the top 1000 on MAL are worth wathcing, you have no expirience with the medium or its surface level to beleive that

>>279905152 (OP)
Visual novels easily, but I will concede that manga are the superior medium for porn.

>>279909529
Seriously replying to a post that includes the word "slop" is akin to clicking on a "HOT MILFS IN YOUR AREA" popup hoping for a date.

>>279906960
Cursed taste

>>279907243
>erasing the greatest love story ever told
I shiggy diggy

>>279908045
the vast majority of manga is also slop

>>279905152 (OP)
Low IQ question

>>279905152 (OP)
I prefer manga since they have my favorite genre, gambling(there are some vns about that but I enjoy the manga side of it). Vns are better for large narratives since they have so much space to write everything about what every character is thinking and stuff like that. I prefer anime for visuals and for episodic fun like 70s tatsunoko production which you can't really find in vns. Also vns have the best music.

>>279906074
>Manga have highly restrictive pagecounts
I've only heard this "complaint" from monster mangaka who'd draw 80 pages per chapter if you let them, like Medalist

>>279907262
>Saihate no Ima
Romeo's under-recognised kino, read it about 15 years ago. Captured the essence of delicate, juvenile friendship. Romeo's dark edge was softened for good but not worn out for nothing. Recommendable.

VN's seem like the worst way to experience anything
They're like storyboards for actual games that have the plot beat, but they stop halfway there to implementing the rest of thegame and you just read the storyboard.
Manga has unique art all the way through
If novels were similar writing quality as the average VN then I wouldnt read those but they somehow tend to be written better.

I would have to be jailed with a cheap tablet available to me to find the time investment worth it to read a VN but even then I'd prefer comics over it.

>>279905152 (OP)
I’m just here to make a threadly reminder that VNs lost to LNs and died, that’s all.

>>279910223
>VNs lost to gacha and died
Fixed

>>279910223
Name five good LNs

>>279910084
Manga is the easiest to consume, so it is the most popular one, but it cannot rely on narrative more heavily than VN for various reasons, mostly because of the editor's intervention. VN has more creative freedom and can weigh heavily in text as much as the creators want. Anime is a mass production so it focuses more on spectacles than narrative too, can't afford to be experimental especially these days. Yeah, the golden age of visual novel has gone, it doesn't make money like it did in 2000s anymore, but its heavily unique, original and narrative-oriented media won't stop inspiring people. I've been thinking and am fully convinced now that reading is the most effortful and intelligent play to feel something, and with music and art it is finally completed as a peak of medium. Imagine about Moby Dick visual novel, it will be far more interesting and easy to consume and feel from it.

>>279910376
then the people into reading a lot have media like disco elysium competing for their attention next to japanese vns

>>279910008
>under-recognised
No it's not.

>>279910223
>>279910250
VNs are in fact not dead.

>>279910376
The one you've responded too was baiting but I disagree with your post as well.
>vns are mostly shit nowadays but individuals can still create unique stuff
That literally applies to every medium. There are plenty of indie manga and while indie anime is a bit harder to achieve, there are plenty of nips doing indie anime as well.
>its heavily unique, original and narrative-oriented media won't stop inspiring people
Once again this applies to every media. They won't stop existing just because the majority is shit. Passionate people will still make experimental stuff.
>Imagine about Moby Dick visual novel, it will be far more interesting and easy to consume and feel from it.
It depends, it could also be garbage. In the best scenario possible maybe.

>>279910376
>VN has more creative freedom
Most vns are chasing trends and there have been creators that have expressed their dissatisfaction with being forced to make moege instead of that they want(Miyazaki was right once again). Like >>279906974 has said almost 500+ vns get released per year. How many of them are even good?

I really hope one day Maruto writes peak suffering lovekino drama VN again to satisfy all the otaku in the world again. Fucking tsundere otaku will grump as always yet gobble it up like ravenous beasts. Economic depression be damned

>>279910251
Arifureta
Slave Harem
Revenge of the Healer
Tanaka
Orc Hero

>>279905152 (OP)
Definitely LN since text is the only thing that carries them. VN and manga can be good with bad writing when the other elements make up for it. LN only sells if it's writing is appealing.

>>279906216
kek is this the garbage JSLs claim is so good. its literally faggot shit

Are VNfags the most pretentious of weeaboos?

>>279910530
kill yourself. he's never written anything good and his most recent ln slop proves he hasn't improved

>>279910530
Don't listen to that other anon. Love yourself.

>>279910084
retard. VNs give you the best mix of imagination (better than any visuals) and getting the author's vision across via limited imagery.

>>279910836
Your face on the left.
My cock on the right.

>>279910902
>amakuso spammer is the wa2 spammer
lol
lmao

>>279910952
I never read WA2 doe?

FlowersGOD here. My favorite anime? It has to be Madoka.

>>279910084
VNs as a medium is an evolution from books, allowing making the experience more sensory and immersive while consuming minimal additional resources. Most actual VNs appear to have shit writing though.

Anime is the ideal medium, basically limitless potential with nuanced acting, but is prohibitively expensive and is easiest to mess-up due to the infinite ceiling. And realistically, long mono/dialogues are cut due to budget reasons and expectation for more cinematic experience, though I do like thorough dialogue-heavy anime.

>>279911022
Kys madokek

>>279911022
live yourself MadoGOD.

>>279910530
>Touma.Kazusa.jpg
Anon...

how would Madoka Magica play out if kyuubey happened to be a scientist with a mohawk?

>>279911165
I wonder how would the fabled rokuhara scientist interact with Krillin.

>>279910376
>VN has more creative freedom
Lol
Lmao even

>>279910438
They might as well be considering it's just otomege/moege/nukige

>>279907585
Mishima

>>279911494
Not true. But what would you know? You don't even play VNs.

>>279911599
If you truly believe he is shitposting why do you keep giving him attention? DO we need 200 more posts of "all anime/manga/vn/s/lns are like X"? Just ignore him.

>>279906257
And also best tales game.

>>279911599
I do tho
You're just coping real hard if you think VNs haven't declined in quality

>>279911662
I want to inform anyone reading

>>279910952
WA2 barely gets spammed?

>>279911599
>posts a mediocre 2024 VN as a comeback
yeah eroge is over

>>279910952
Nah he hates WA2 even though he didn't read it.

VNs have a certain edge in that they're much more free to use sex as a part of storytelling
Real people have sex, real romance has sex, real warriors and heroes fuck. And in the event the sex in the VN is beyond what's 'real', that in itself becomes part of the narrative

>>279906885
>What if i copied parasyte and turn it into shit?

VNs and non-never ending manga.

>>279912000
this

>>279910554
all isekai slop

>>279911728
They are long past their golden age. I never said that wasn't true. But dead? You'd only say that if you didn't play any.
>>279911767
Nice bait, didn't play it though. You can't even read Japanese.
>inb4 the most obviously n5 Japanese (You) imaginable

>>279910576
Then why is it all isekai slop

>VN bait thread
>sharty slang
>slop posting
>I hate joponese
>ril books

>>279905152 (OP)
Depends if you're pro rape or not

>>279912488
Are you not?

>>279905152 (OP)
Anime in VN form.

>>279906185
Of course a jrpg shill thinks ufotbale is the kind of visuals or something. I like xenogears but you should watch more anime and read more manga if you think it should be "winning oscars". Start with Ashita no Joe.

>>279912690
>Of course a jrpg shill thinks ufotbale is the kind of visuals or something.
what kind of esl garbage am I reading here

>>279912715
>esl
bro your the esl lol

>>279912715
King instead of kind, my bad.

>>279912730
ano...

>>279910530
Anon, that's Koharu not Kazusa.
Btw the CC heroines are shit.
Koharu is great but the ending of her route is dumb.
The cake is just a generic used good hag, although I love her rape h-scene.
The tomboy is a schizo soap opera villain.

>>279911742
He used to spam it a while ago.

>>279912825
>cake is used goods hag

anon your reading comprehension...

>>279911472
Most VNs are made in independent small companies or even small indie doujin groups, not big publishers. That is why VN was (some good things still are) the most creative and sparkling medium that dare pushes the boundaries, from vanilla to niche and extreme. That is why it was considered the grassroots of creative otaku culture that flourished in the golden age of the 2000s, which was the time that shaped most current otaku culture and style, as the prelude of animanga becoming mainstream circa the 2010s.

>>279912825
>but the ending of her route is dumb
It was the best ending in CC though. What didn't you like about it?

>>279913303
A manga can be made by 1 single person.

>>279913303
WNs wins because they can be made individually

>>279913342
Anon are you underaged? The editors of big ass publishers don't allow that, and mangaka's creativity being compromised by the editors or even involuntarily prolonged (DBZ) or create what they don't want to create is common practice.

>>279913505
Anon, you do know of a thing called doujins right?

>>279913303
>Most VNs are made in independent small companies
It really depends on your definition of "small", but it's really nothing like you're fairytale image of a tiny "independent" studio. If you don't believe me look at how many talent circulated around the original big producers of VNs like AliceSoft, Leaf, elf, and especially look at how that talent moved around. This is all of course in the early to mid 90s, when games like elf's Doukyuusei, Leaf's Shizuku, C's ware's EVE burst error, and other famous works were actually shaping the tropes of the industry. It's completely retarded to state that otaku culture was somehow shaped in the 2000s when the medium was already well developed at that point - to where otaku of that era already considered Key's Kanon (99) the paramount work of the medium (and many still do, to this day). You don't bother explaining what you mean by current otaku culture and style, you post Type-Moon's Tsukihime, which is certainly a famous work in the medium, but to state it's something that "shaped" otaku culture and style is ridiculous considering the game itself borrows so much from Leaf's Kizuato (and in turn Shizuku, both 96).
I don't even want to poke your statement about "animanga becoming mainstream circa the 2010s" else I'll spend hours typing a wall of posts that wouldn't get through to you.

>>279913303
2000's LN and WN were a full plate of delicious urban fantasy kino. I know manga and anime also do urban fantasy but idk the feeling is not the same. I guess ln/wn is the best format for ir

>>279913505
>all manga=battle shounen and some other exceptions like berserk
Then all vns=moege. You are raving about how experiemental vns were in the 00s while ignoring all the unique and experimental anime/manga from the 00s.

>>279913875
I like how anime did urban fantasy as well when they got the colors and mood right in the 90s and 00s. Especially the night atmosphere in shows like Darker than Black or the original Birdy the Mighty.

>>279913580
Even in an every man for himself situation, VN has more maneuverability. Mangaka simply cannot be a self-publisher, they are in the end bound to a big one. A big shot doujin artist who later becomes an prominant figure like 774 in the end cannot be a master of himself. But a small humble doujin VN makers later become a supernova in the medium and become "self publishing" masters of themselves, like Qruppo. Just like Nasu and Takeuchi before it. Not hindered by anyone, make things they want to make.

>>279914282
Is that why nasu changed the gender of mc and king arthur to make it more profitable?

All I know is that Muv-Luv is peak
It has been peak since I read it in 2011 at 13.

>>279905152 (OP)
In my view

>VN>Manga>LN>Anime

Maybe im just bias to the format but every time i read a VN its a joy to go through, the fact that its not locked behind release schedules just and instead a full product makes heaps of difference when it comes to pacing, character development and arcs, etc...Even if from my small experience VNs tend to be more repetitive with their ideas and settings.

Manga are the 2nd simply by sheer quantity and ease of production, anyone can make a manga and that makes it easy to produce some of the most interesting and wild stuff out there, however, editors, weekly to monthly releases and clear not fully planned stories really hurt them in the long run. A manga turning bad is only a matter of time and the ending being shit is the matter of a coinflip with how abundant rushed and lame endings are out there.

LNs are weird in that despite being even easier than manga to make, seems to be incredibly samey ideas, settings, characters and the writing is somehow worse??? Maybe the latter low entry bar is still enough to create standards while the former is simply victim of too much freedom. Not sure, all i know is every time i read a LN im met with amateur hour...everything.

But even the one mentioned above sometimes creates something mildly interesting, HAVE YOU SEEN THE STATE OF ANIME ORIGINALS?! Its all varying amounts of trash its unbelievable, from the safe as shit, corporate writing, lame characters, boring stories and just godawful endings, i just cant understand how the most expensive of the 4 mediums is somehow the one who produces the most garbage when its not adapting something.

>>279914800
>But even the one mentioned above sometimes creates something mildly interesting, HAVE YOU SEEN THE STATE OF ANIME ORIGINALS?! Its all varying amounts of trash its unbelievable, from the safe as shit, corporate writing, lame characters, boring stories and just godawful endings, i just cant understand how the most expensive of the 4 mediums is somehow the one who produces the most garbage when its not adapting something.
Have you just not watched good ones? Cowboy Bebop, 79 Gundam, Haibane Renmei, Key the Metal Idol, Gunbuster, arguably the most important anime for modern otaku culture, Evangelion? Are you just a zoomer or what?

>>279906385
>limited not only by author's eloquence, but also by artist's abilites
on the flip side a great artist can enhance a scene like no book can

Visual novels are an otakushit medium while anime has actual artistic works with auteur vision and attention to craft such as Angel's Egg and Belladonna of Sadness that strive to be more than just emotionally exaggerated stories.

>>279914800
>Anime original
The current state is horrendous, but there still are, or very frankly AFAIK, is, exceptions.

>>279914872
VN are more intimate, anime are pedestrian. That is the best I can explain it.

>>279905152 (OP)
Novels. Not light novels, actual novels.

>>279915027
>Angel's Egg
Didn't the author say he doesn't understand the story

>>279915039
Why are you trying to change the subject?

>>279914872
I thought the fact i was talking about the present was not clear enough, i guess i should have said THE CURRENT STATE, my bad.

Yes, old originals could be great, among the best even, which is why i still stupidly pick them up in my seasonals, but looks at your examples, the most recent thing barely gets out of the 90's, good anime that are originals are literally not a thing anymore, the last thing that broke the 7/10 barrier to me was Madoka and that is almost 15 years old by this point. Originals are probably simply too shit nowadays because of board meddling and authors simply going to other places to have their good stories told, cant have the whole medium be elevated by its past glories

Key fucking sucks massive balls

>>279915032
I didnt like Sonny Boy, i see the vision, and i commend the efforts in visuals and story telling, but it didnt work for me, specially with the ending. I dont blame you for liking though, as there is good enough stuff in there to hold on to.

>>279915027
Angel Egg and Vampire Hunter D have art styles that could only exist in anime.
>>279915032
Tbh the current state of all modern media is horrendous.

>>279915140
I'm not that anon. I have seen everything you referenced and honestly, it was alright and all, certainly goo for culture and useful if you want to understand how anime influenced other works but they are an empty experience compared to a good VN.

>>279915032
>pseud the anime

>>279915173
>i guess i should have said THE CURRENT STATE, my bad.
Then the current state of visual novels and lns is absolutely garbage as well.(and also there are non-originals that are elevated by a specific director's style like some shaft or yuasa anime so they should count for anime as well). Also Odd taxi was pretty good.

>>279915194
I disagree. No vn could reach the peaks of cel anime since they can't replicate the beautiful artistry of those anime, especially the color palettes which are impossible to replicate in the vn medium.

>>279915310
you never read any 98PC VN like Yu-No? They certainly can and have.

>>279915348
Even those can't since they are still using digital coloring but I do agree that PC 98s vn shad an aesthetic that is far superior to modern vns.

ignore VNfags. It's a vocal minority of sloppers who HAVE to spam every thread that includes "VN" in the OP. even though the thread said Anime, Manga, LN. I don't know if it's a complex or what. It's outdone by manga. Outdone by LNs. By anime. All of them >> VNs.

9 -nine- apdatation soon.

>>279915194
good vns are an empty expereince compared to good books.

>>279915396
I am a 00s VN fag so I get you, I don't like the modern aestchetics of them either. Same for anime past the mid 10s.

>>279915448
>t. never read saya no uta

>>279915401
>Outdone by LNs
any medium will outdone isekai slop the medium

LN used to be about sci-fi, horror and urban fantasy back in the late 90s and 00s with some really good writters. There was a barrier to entry. Nowadays they are nothing but slop populated by hacks who can't into any of the other mediums. It is a depressing medium.

>>279910223
But Cyanotype was released only a few years ago.

>>279915550
The only reason they overtook VN adaptations in anime is simply because they were easier to get adapted and get this... get censored. Plus the studio could just reuse the same artstyle for all of them instead of thinking how to transition an VN unique artstyle on the screen aka more work.

>>279915263
Its true that all media is in an all-time low, but even comparing them now i prefer VNs, the other day i picked a honestly mediocre small nukige and it was still a more fun read than most shows i was watching this season, as i said i do admit to my bias and im probably overrating when compared to manga, but i insist that a lot of it comes from being a full done story and all the qualities that come from it which is more satisfying than seeing authors being held at gunpoint by their editors to keep their cashcow's milk flowing past their expiration date until they wither and die IF the author wasnt winging from the start which only takes you so far until the quality plummets.

>odd taxi
Yeah i liked it too, an anime original being a 6/10 in this day and age is kind of a miracle.

>>279906830
Lain

I only read Yuzuge.

>>279915396
Rance IV has some of the nicest graphics of anything ever

>>279915648
Well, yeah I think you are slightly biased because I dislike most vns released in the last 5 years that I tried but I don't think using personal anecdotes really help.
> i picked a honestly mediocre small nukige
What is it called?
>most shows i was watching this season
I only watch shows that I am interested in. For other originals made since madoka: Shriobako, Flip Flappers, in-oh, reveue starlight movie, space dandy, gatchaman crowd and also if you count adaptations with very a lot of visual flare then Ping Pong and 3 gatsu no lion.

Mine is the way of the sword!

>>279915708
I was talking about coloring mostly. The older rance games do have that soulful 90s art style that I love.

>>279915401
VN will always be entitled to being the most 'kino' above all the Japanese otaku culture. It is destined to. It's creativity, originality, soft to extreme variation, it is the top-notch form of art that makes you feel something. No dispute. Reading and comprehension assisted by music and key visuals. Can't surpass this.

>>279915950
The art in the first few is pretty rough, although I like them, personally. But from IV to Kichikuou it starts to look really lovely
But IV is my personal favourite

>>279916122
>It's creativity, originality, soft to extreme variation
Kek.

>>279915875
>those glasses
masaka...

>>279905152 (OP)
It goes like this: Muramasa>>manga>anime>ln>>>non-Muramasa vns
>>279916122
Unfortunately that description only applies to Muramasa.

VNs.

>>279913307
The stuff with her friends. They basically tried to fuck her life and made her lose a year because some dumb girl had a crush on his bf. She shouldn't have befriended them again. The scene with Setsuna was kino though. I like Koharu a lot in general but some parts were really dumb.

>>279916259
second VN, now

Sundome is the best manga I have read. Blue Gender is the best anime I've seen. Muv-Luv Alternative surpassed them. I have yet to read a good LN despite reading nearly 50.

>>279916410
>Muv-Luv Alternative
Change that to Subahibi and you will sound more believable.

>>279916377
I'd recognise my hero through any disguise

>>279916471
>Pseudbahibi

>>279916377
What would one as prestigiously experienced as Rance teach to people?

>>279916410
>despite reading nearly 50
You think you'd give up at some point

>>279905152 (OP)
Normally I'd say visual novels, but since Deltarune chapters 3 and 4 just released I can't help it. Vidya trumps them all.

>>279915263
VNs are fine, we've had a couple of absolute bangers in recent years. It's the LNs that are just endless slop

Notice how all visual novels have moe art and otaku pandering sensibilities while anime and manga have experimental visuals and outsider art such as Hiroshi Harada and Usumaru Furuya's works.

>>279915027
This. Also a lot of Tezuka's experimental stuff should belong in that tier.

>>279916471
I did read SubaHibi but I'm not trans so it did nothing for me.

>>279916695
by experimental you mean ugly?

>>279916695
There are some vn that have nothing to do with otaku stuff but they don't get discussed that often unfortunately but yeah anime and manga are older media and as a whole have way more varied art styles.

>>279916717
you're thinking of umineko

>>279916717
you're thinking of muramasa

>>279916736
Kek
>>279916760
>>279916834
>reality

>>279916760
>>279916834
trvke
muramasa is homocore

>>279916907
>straightest man in Rokuhara

>>279916865
lmao

>>279905152 (OP)
Trvke: Japanese works simply don't have good writing and Japan as a whole has never produced any great literature.

Who was in the wrong here?

>>279916717
You don't have to be a tranny to appreciate Wittgenstein

>>279916907
The way of kino.

>>279916753
VN literally harken to the 80s. Anime were making references to them since the 80s.

>>279917111
Checked and true

>>279917134
Bro, anime and manga are even older than that.

>>279905274
I just started Muv Luv and it's already a miserable time
>LMAO A GIRL HIT ME AND BROKE DOWN MY DOOR
Childish shit writing

>>279917080
Japan.
/haniho/ has a hateboner for Sill and gives Lia to much unearned praise.

>>279917243
Ninbros...

VNs were in the mainstream thanks to S:G and Fate UBW in 2010s. Muv-Luv and Higurashi failed to reignite the flame in the 2020s.

If you wish for them to become mainstream again you will have to sponsor an anime for SubaHibi, Umineko, and Muramasa, but make the adaptation not suck this time.

Are there any mix anime-vn colabs where the vn got some anime original material? For example the ga rei manga has an original anime prequel ga rei zero.

>>279917318
Yes, Steins;Gate got some anime only OVAs for example.

>>279917294
House in Fata Morgana will revive VN adaptations.

>>279917243
Muv Luv is a trilogy and the first one starts like a moege aka a 2000s romantic comedy.
Spoiler alert: It's not an accurate representative of the next parts.

>>279917392
It will be the worst thing of all time.

>>279917318
A decent Subahibi adaptation would definitely rekindle the flame, especially with the 15th Anniversary Edition on the rise.
Why does trash like Nukitrashy or Summer Pockets get picked for adaptations but none of the actual good VNs?

>>279917310
Is this real?

Why no more chuuniKINO adaptations?

>>279917570
Nukitashi this July.

>>279917570
gennuanly one of the worst things I have ever read
the way it got dickrode in the VN community should have been a give away

>>279905274
Holy fucking illiterate retard jfc

>>279917627
How will japanese fans react to the trans heroine?

>>279916350
The revenge got out of hand, but objectively, Koharu did betray her friend and everything she herself set out to do. I think her character arc of still caring about her old ties after all works better than to just going "fuck those bitches."

>>279917708
How will /a/ react to it?
>>279917570
Idk, but DI was a really fun vn.

>>279917768
>How will /a/ react to it?
She's in S2

>>279917701
I am still here
All the Muv-Luv dickriding posts are made by me btw

Why do we have to fight about it? Why can't just enjoy all of them? Why can't have a thread where we talk about interesting stuff regarding them like crossovers or recommending anime/manga based on someone's taste in vns or vns based on someone's taste in anime/manga.?

>>279917458
What I don't understand is "Subahibi can't be adapted because it will have to be censored"

>>279917841
>Madoka
The Bible, Tripitaka
>Saya no Uta
The Republic

>>279917914
What don't you understand about it?
It will have to be censored, but that hasn't stopped Fate from being adapted either.

>>279917841
>>279917943
>Rebellion
Faust of Goethe
Thus Spoke Zarathustra
Paradise Lost

>>279917570
We need to bring back vn adaptations.

>>279917810
Holy based

>>279908859
>anime is literally a medium about adaptations
No lol, that's just your poor exposure, and in that case manga and LNs would be so.
>but fine be it your way
Tutu and maybe Paranoia Agent are the only good ones here. The rest are pretentious and retarded with anemic scripts, which I suppose makes the list a decent representation of anime writing's shortcomings.

>>279917570
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1mmfJewMyE
A proper Tokyo NECRO adaptation would be guaranteed success.

>>279918221
>The rest are pretentious and retarded with anemic scripts, which I suppose makes the list a decent representation of anime writing's shortcomings.
Still all of them are better than most jrpgs. Since jrpws have shit writing in general.

>>279917720
Fuck those bitches. Forgiving them was fine, but acting like bff acting they bullied her to the point of ruining her reputation and almost ruining her academic future is just too much of a woman moment.

>>279909975
A big part of the problem is that the story necessarily has to be paced for its regular release, so the author has to include information in specifically-sized clumps and introduce new developments at an according rate. Most mangaka are also dependent on ending chapters in certain ways like cliffhangers to keep ratings up, which likewise have a predictable, regular pace that adapts terribly into any other medium. I don't think ~40-page series suffer from this too much, but it makes the reading experience of every ~20-page series with an ongoing plot absolutely horrible.

The actual printed format is a related issue in which the author has to consider the turning of the page as a tool of pacing and revelation, but in this case, I don't think formality is a bad thing since authors usually don't let themselves be restricted by it too much, assuming they're conscious of it at all.

>>279917294
>VNs were in the mainstream thanks to S:G and Fate UBW in 2010s

>>279918969
Steins;Gate fans chronically overrate the impact and quality of their own VN. Happens every time.

>>279915174
>yoshitaka amano could only exist in anime
Bruh

>>279915310
>he says while exclusively watching those anime compressed through the limited color gamut of a digital video

>>279916593
Every once in awhile LNs get some gems too like Tomozaki or Kagejitsu (which is on hiatus for the sake of a gacha lmao)

>>279919240
>which is on hiatus for the sake of a gacha lmao
Probably an excuse. The author could still write the new volume alongside whatever bullshit he does for the gacha, he's just run out of ideas.

>>279919240
>>he says while exclusively watching those anime compressed through the limited color gamut of a digital video
Who said that? It's the truth that vns can't replicate the colors and aesthetic of cel anime.

>>279919240
havent even heard of tomozaki but shadow was great. It's still kind of just riding the cliche well though, rather than something truly good

>>279917810
thank you for your service

>>279919240
>Bruh
Has he worked on any vns? I know he has worked on some video games but actually seeing more of his work rather than just some concept art is something that you can experience only in animu.

>>279917243
its all for the setup. Alternative will hurt you in ways you couldn't even imagine

>>279916559
VN is the most basic form of vidya and it often has minigames in it too. Toby Fox heavily relies on narrative so his games can be honorary VNs, and we all know that he must be a VN enjoyer himself too.

>>279919470
I thought alternative was pretty meh. Unlimited was the true kino.

>>279919444
thanks anon

>>279917243
>>279919470
the barrier to entry is way too damn high, and I am saying it as a fan

in order to even like Muv-Luv you need to be into Rumiko Takhashi romcom comedy, then 80s American action movies, then Starship Troopers/ Blue Gender. The average zoomer who grew up on fantasy works won't tolerate sci-fi or even understand what Muv-Luv pays homage to (Ideon etc), or terms like time dilation. This 20 year old game just asks way too much out of them, they weren't even born when it came out... it was dated even back then. Maybe if they really like Gundam they will have smooth sailing but that is already a very big niche in the West.

>>279919679
>Ideon
Be Invoked is genuinely better than most vns.

>>279919744
NTA that's a fine take but it's 100 minutes, I like how medium/long VNs really let you get immersed for a long time.

>>279919817
>I like how medium/long VNs really let you get immersed for a long time.
The good ones sure. The bad ones have pretty shit pacing.

What are some cool visual novels that aren't the ones that everyone talks about?

>>279919649
Unlimited is like a prologue, a setup. All of that is concluded in Alternative, although you can dislike its gruesomeness and tons of shock value.

>>279905274
I preferred 00s anime

>>279905152 (OP)
Visual novels, but that's literally by the nature of the medium.
It'd be like asking whether films or novels have better writing.

>>279919970
>I want to be a snowflake even among the snowflake medium!
Unless you have read them already, then just read the ones everyone talks about.

>>279906155
How does VNs being bad now invalidate VNs as a medium having better writing than anime or manga?
OP said nothing about recency.

>>279906185
There's not a single JRPG with writing on par with the best visual novels.
This includes Xenogears and Xenogears is my favourite game of all time.

>>279919970
Glad you asked.
Not for the squeamish but it was an unique experience if you don't get any bad endings, use a guide. https://vndb.org/v8311

>>279919342
The gacha stories have been getting better with each chapter, so that seems unlikely, but it's also concerning that they may be sucking up ideas that would be better used in the LN or turning the story into a FFXV/Nier style multimedia mess. I think the bigger mystery is what's happening with the movie. Once that gets solved, it should be clear what the state of the franchise is.

>>279919392
Before that, you have to ask if clichés are actually a bad thing, and considering that they get used because people enjoy them, I would say no. Cliché is sort of the inherent nature of chuuni. Shadow has a truly unique and profound worldview on the nature of personal growth and maturation, and through its clichés, expresses its tension between the individual and the world. On top of that, it has a more authentically, energetically child-like narrator than any other LN under Cid's cool facade; just look at all the exclamations and imperatives. I don't think anything else has ever penetrated and analyzed the essence of chuuni as deeply as Kagejitsu has.

>>279919463
He's more of a legit artist, so besides FF and D, most of his work is for galleries and art books. You should be able to find some scans on nyaa or sadpanda. He has sold out on some shit collaborations in recent years though, I think he's washed up.

>>279915310
Forgot to post some examples

>>279915310
>since they can't replicate the beautiful artistry of those anime
What do you mean they can't replicate the beautiful artistry? Why can't they?
>especially the color palettes which are impossible to replicate in the vn medium
Huh? There's loads of visual novels from the late 90s with cel-tier art.

how come there hasn't been created a new anime Japanese medium since then?

>>279920508
gacha and v-tubers replaced VNs

>>279920285
you do realize the english translation for kagejitsu is very inaccurate, right?

>>279920483
>What do you mean they can't replicate the beautiful artistry? Why can't they?
Because there was a ton of fucking effort into it. Look at the Patlabor movies and see how much detail it is in every frame. It's not something only achievable by a large team during bubble era japan.
>with cel-tier art.
Unless it was actually drawn on cels it can't capture the colors and natural light that it made so special.

>>279920580
オタク向けの作品はほとんどそうですよ。もちろん、アニメも漫画もADVも

>>279920588
>not something
Meant to write something

Since the thread is skewed towards older visual novels, I'll bring up something more recent. What are your guys opinion on Last Defense Academy?
It's the kind of batshit insane ambition that can only truly possible in the visual novel medium, you can't really produce anything like that in anime, manga, vidya, film, television or even a physical novel.
Hundred endings, 200ish hours long.

>>279919575
Perchance. I'm still asking for a visual novel with an "evil" route as well written as Deltarune's or Undertale's.

>>279920730
>danganronpa art style
Into the trash it goes.

>>279905152 (OP)
VN is the no brainer choice. Not only does it have the best balance between media elements, but it also has the most experimenting by writers. Overall it's just better.

>>279920730
>blatantly ripping off 13 Sentinels title screen

>>279920781
>ripping off
Uchikoshi is literally one of the game's two directors.

>>279920780
>but it also has the most experimenting by writers.
It had them back in the day(but anime and manga also had them back then as well).

>>279920730
Too long, I got bored after 50 routes and never finished the true ending
I still have it installed and I keep saying I'll get back to it but who knows

>>279920799
Oh fuck Iwent full retard, I confused 13 sentinels with 999

>>279920799
who dat?

>>279920673
LNs have it way worse. Its the one that's most butchered.
Anime barely has any fuckups. VNs ... depends, but you at least have the voice to catch them. And ease of running LLMs with modern hooking tools capable of injectig into the game live, all automated

>>279920580
>>279920673

>>279916559
Gunbuster is better than this zoomer trash.If you want to compare it with real vns first make it have actual fanservice.

>>279920781
>>279920730
lmao thats just fucking pathetic as if that shit wasn't bad enough without trying to mooch off real kamige

>>279920673
This is the VN with the 'Broski' removal patch, right?

>>279920780
It has the best writing because it's literally written media. It doesn't have the best visuals and it can't be compared to manga since it doesn't have paneling. Making comparisons like this is retarded when every medium has its strength.

>it's old anime gud new bad now
HFK

>>279919970
Ritterorden.

>>279920938
Old anime good visual novels bad

>>279920285
>I think the bigger mystery is what's happening with the movie
honestly completely forgot that was happening kek

>>279920842
point and laugh

>>279920919
>>279920780
This, it's like comparing cinema with books. Only an idiot would do that

>>279920919
Manga would be the worst choice. It has shit writing that's aimed at the reading level of children, visuals that are inferior to anime, and no music or voice acting.

>>279920972
Uhm that do be kind based?

>>279920860
True. Shadow is an LN so I figured that by extension it goes without saying.

>>279921042
that's funny that the only reason they succeed at visual art the most is because their language is retarded.

Lnbros why can't our cinegrids look like
>>279920693
>>279920671
>>279920631
>>279920588
>>279920503

>all of my otakus brothers fighting which otakus medium is the best
We can all agree that webtoon is the worst format for anything

>>279921134
>>279921153
Imagine the Rokuhara scientist in these styles.

>>279921201
KINOOOOOO

>>279921153
Why is the bitch in the last just looking at fucking grass, wtf are you expecting from grass?

>>279921261
touch grass

Last digit between 1-3 and manga have won
Last digit between 4-6 and vns have won
Last digit between 7-9 and anime have won

>>279920730
>Hundred endings, 200ish hours long.
This just sounds like bloat. Is it just five endings each with twenty slight variations?
Also I don't give a shit about tactics games.

>>279920730
The ambition is commendable in an age where visual novels are either slop or phoned in, but it falls apart under the weight of everything it's trying to do.

And while it's not necessarily bad, after a while it's just hard to continue because of burnout and getting most of the endings feels like a chore.

Handing off the endings to like, 12 different writers doesn't help, some of the minor endings are terribly written and character motivations just change for plot convenience.

But some of the endings are so fucking good that it almost makes you want to grind out more endings.

Any Spirit Hunter bros here?

>>279920730
If Kodaka made it more compact with only juicy routes I think it could have been better. Too many time-consuming wacky routes with the unskippable morning call and battles, but I heard a while ago they are preparing a patch for it. The 2nd scenario route that he wanted to make this game for was simply magnificent, undoubtedly his magnum opus especially meaningful to our concurrent time. They are cooking MORE routes for their DLC so I hope they will make it worthy, Uchikoshi surely has to explain more about his SF. Mostly counting on him and Kodaka.

>>279921370
I am hunting a spirit

>>279921370
cute monke

>>279920817
>It had them back in the day(but anime and manga also had them back then as well).
The ability to have branching routes gives it an extra dimension too. It's like being able to turn a story 90 degrees and being able to view it from a fresh new angle. Some of the stuff I've read has been very creative with it, which gives me a feeling I've never gotten from anime, manga, or any other kind of book.

>>279921134
LN bros abandoned /a/...

>>279921370
I read Spirit Hunter for fanservice.

>>279919970
Kara no Shoujo

>>279921356
my wives won

>>279921460
>The ability to have branching routes gives it an extra dimension too.
No shit, that's the strength of vns. Anime and manga themselves have different strength that can create different experiences that can't be replicated in vn form.

>>279921540
Just to add to this, the mediums don't necessarily have solid lines between them. There are VNs like School Days and the Viper series which are fully animated and sometimes completely linear as well as ones like Quartet which are formatted into comic panels.

>>279921540
Not really... I can imagine a scene in my head just as well as any anime or manga. A VN's ability to get themes across is unmatched.

>>279921532
What if they there was a muv luv gurren lagann crossover?

>>279920730
I'm only on my second playthrough but I love it

>>279921641
Imagination goes both ways. The work realizing things more clearly/specifically also allows it to convey things accordingly.

>>279921657
then it'd be good for once

>>279920865
ZAMN

>>279921513
Horror and sexy girls
Name a more iconic duo

>>279916559
>homestuck 2.0

>>279920865
'pai

>>279921641
Then you wouldn't even need a vn and you would just read a book since you can imagine all the vn cgs by yourself. But anyways manga excels in paneling. Read something like Slam Dunk and pay attention to how good some of spreads are done and a lot of panels towards the end. Anime excels through directing and there have already been posted plenty of fantastic looking anime that have pretty good direction but I could also recommend more if you are interested. However, maybe they are just not for you in which case wtf are you even doing here?

>>279921744
>sportshit
>monkey ball

>>279921744
I've definitely watched more anime and read more manga than you, don't worry.

>>279921756
I've put at least the minimum effort into my post, why can't you do the same?

>>279921680
But Gurren lagann is good. I still think Gunbuster is the better gainax mecha.

>>279921812
>But Gurren lagann is good.
That's my point. It's Muv Luv that's shit. I should've been more clear in my post.

>>279921764
Then why do I need to explain such a basic thing to you?

>>279921837
it is fine, many get filtered
Muv-Luv is a niche within a niche within a niche
the only reason it was so highly rated on VNDB is because of a right place right time situation, I'm fine admitting that.

>>279921812
>Gunbuster
That's the second time you've brought this up today, I am noticing.

>>279921860
You're just wrong bro. Face it, VNs can do anything anime or manga does, but they can never replicate what VNs do.

>>279921953
Yes? I would bring it a 100 times if it's needed.

>>279921956
>what VNs do.
NTR? plenty of that in plot manga and plot anime

>>279921884
imagine the smell

>>279921956
>You're just wrong bro.
>I will do that without providing any arguments
>Face it, VNs can do anything anime or manga does
I've already named things that vns can't do. Is this how everyone is arguing on /v/ or whatever board you are using? You have to actually address my arguments if you want to have a point.

>>279921744
nta but books are a complete failure as a storytelling medium and only existed because of how limited we were.
They are extremely wasteful and cannot reliably get the author's point/idea across.

VNs can while allowing the necessary amount of imagination. Anime are also, obviously, too constrained for this. I know monogatari exists but it still feels different to a visual novel's lengthy conversation with proper music.

>>279921956
the vn was pretty shit, shaft turned it into something good and even then it was a tad bit lacking besides presentation

>>279922023
>I've already named things that vns can't do
No you haven't?
>paneling
irrelevant, who cares? you can have art without panels
>directing
VNs have directors.

>>279921978
Sell me on it then.

>>279922071
No. Just watch it.

>>279922071
Fun mecha that deals with ho time dilation affects people. Also has nude scenes.

>>279921042
>Look! Here's what what my e-daddy told me!
TL;DR nigga

manga feel unfinished
anime are unfinished
LN are left unfinished
VNs are actually complete

Yeah tough choice huh

>>279922023
>paneling
so can VNs. Its just a fucking different technique for getting an image across anywya, who cares if its a panel or a moving sprite or a CG transition
Besides we literally have VNs that use the manga format....
>good direction
are you saying visual novels have no directors? they ain't directed? what?

funny a retard like you would sperg out.

>>279922051
to add to this, the closest monogatari gets is empty frames. Visual vomit for the sake of visual vomit is ... something the anime has to do - talking for 20 minutes with nothing happening just cannot work. And to anyone capable of using their brain the difference between the unnecessary visual vomit being present and not being present is self evident

>>279922139
>VNs are actually complete
Not when they endlessly make sequels or turn them into franchises

>>279922051
>a but books are a complete failure as a storytelling medium and only existed because of how limited we were.
I somewhat disagree. You are right that you will never truly understand an author's intention from a book but I don't think books are a a complete failure and they have their worth.
>Anime are also, obviously, too constrained for this. I know monogatari exists but it still feels different to a visual novel's lengthy conversation with proper music.
I agree that anime's strength is not in these kind of long dialogues(even though it sometimes tries like in monogatari and legend of the galactic homos) but it doesn't have to be.
>>279922055
>irrelevant
They are relevant for the experience. Stop acting dishonest. I can call routes in vns irrelevant as well. I can post bullshit arguments like "can't replicate cel colors" like that fag as well if I want to.
>VNs have directors.
Direction in animation is totally different. Have you ever watched good animation?

>>279922171
not really, even then, they are left self contained and you are not forced to read the rest if you do not want to; like in JRPGs

it is basic game design policy

>>279922106
>TL;DR
...is what every illiterate faggot says when they see a book

>>279922171
barely happens and the few it happened to are shit games anyways

>>279922143
>are you saying visual novels have no directors?
No. I was talking about direction in animation which is different. Watch Kon's works.
>so can VNs. Its just a fucking different technique for getting an image across anywya, who cares if its a panel or a moving sprite or a CG transition
people that can tell the different? read a physical manga and compare to reading a vn. Compare it to how your eyes move across the page in a good manga. It's a totally different experience.

>>279922139
>manga have actually genres I am interested in
>all vns are moege and nukige trash
Yeah tough choice huh

>>279922220
Except you haven't posted a book, just the blog of some normalfag

>>279922290
>>all vns are moege and nukige trash
mental retardation beyond comprehension

>>279922309
but enough about you.

>pick up some plot heavy manga
>read it in 2-3 days
>wow it was awesome!
>check publishing dates
>was ongoing for 15 years
>all volumes together have less content than 2 fantasy books
Reading ongoing manga is even worse than waiting for Winds of Winter.

>>279922302
I never said I did. You really need to work on your reading comprehension lol

>>279922317
Aaah?

>>279921956
>Shinkai Makoto had once been less significant so he had to freelance eroge animation job to keep pursuing his passion
Now they say he's next to Miyazaki or something.

>>279922332
Your heard me, mr scientist.

both manga and VNs are more respected industries than anime or LNs

>>279922193
>but I don't think books are a a complete failure and they have their worth
onlu as much as manual toosl that have been replaced by machinery.

>>279922264
>different experience
If you're an imaginationlet. It's just imagining movement and the author's 'directing' - it can be done in VNs via CGs aswell, zooming on them or whatever.

>>279922415
it do be like that

>>279915688
>no harem routes
I hate yuzuge

>>279922430
>onlu
>toosl
retard

>>279910376
Yeah I agree with this post

>>279922430
>If you're an imaginationlet
Then why do you need vns? I can just imagine the cgs and make them look even better by avoiding all sameface issues.

>>279922430
only*
tools*
eh.

>>279922460
I refuse to wear glasses as much as I refuse to actually turn on the keyboard's built-in light.

>>279922324
I will never understand people who doesn't like reading something weekly or monthly, it's the comfiest thing in the world and it leaves you plenty of time to speculate and think about what just happened
>>all volumes together have less content than 2 fantasy books
Who cares lol quantity=/=quality

>>279922171
Extremely rare case.

>>279922490
Because it's a way for the author to get his view across. Things are still left to narration, you get a base that's in line with what the author wants you to see and you iamgine from there

>>279922415
IS it? Some anime like ghibilishit or Perfect blue have quite the prestige and have been used as inspiration by film directors outside of the otaku sphere

>>279922509
if I read a bunch of shit weekly/monthly I'm going to end up forgetting chunks of the plot anyways

>>279922542
anime movies are a completely different beast than seasonal TV anime anon

inb4 OVAs that industry is actually dead

>>279922536
>Things are still left to narration, you get a base that's in line with what the author wants you to see and you iamgine from there
Then why doesn't the author provide you with a sheet of all the character and monster deigns and then completely erase them from the game? There are books the provide you with such drawings. You can imagine all the rest themselves. Why do they need to draw each character doing 10 gestures when just 1 is enough?

>>279922509
Why do you need an entire week, or god forbid, a month to digest a single chapter? What kind of masterpiece have you been reading?

>>279922597
Nukitashi

>>279922597
Chainsaw Man
need a week to process all the goon

>>279922578
And? They are still part of the industry, for series you have normalfagshit like cowboy bebop that is revered

>>279922624
>chainsoy cuck

>>279922633
>like cowboy bebop that is revered
literally not a single soul in Japan
its a west psyop

I think you meant Gundam Seed and Code Geass

>>279922663
I thought we were talking about them being respected worldwide.

>>279922663
finally, some good anime mentioned in this thread, it only took nearly 600 posts

>>279922684
huh who cares about anything outside of japan

>>279922591
Sometimes there are no 10 gestures drawn and just one. Either way there isn't enough for every character action.
The point is that Ithere is no point to reading tree descriptions, or any other mundane descriptions for that matter when the process can be shortened.

You imagine the path the sprite takes from point A to point B. Having an image helps get the point across, you get the best of both worlds.
I've better things to do than explaining something this simple.

>>279922684
nobody even knows what a Cowboy Bebop is in Japan

>>279922696
Gurren Lagann and Code Geass were already mentioned thoughever.

>>279922709
Explain why do they even bother making more than 1 for every character. Aren't you supposed to imagine everything?
>The point is that Ithere is no point to reading tree descriptions, or any other mundane descriptions for that matter when the process can be shortened.
Then there is no point in reading stuff about a character's action when they can just be animated and shorten the process.

>>279922766
Reading is fun, watching is not.

>>279922766
>they can just be animated and shorten the process.
is this really what this all comes down to? how fast you can read something?

>>279922509
>it's the comfiest thing in the world and it leaves you plenty of time to speculate and think about what just happened
I think zoomers just born differently.
I want to read or watch something. I want to be immersed into world. I don't read it for circlejerking. I don't need weekly pauses too think about what just happened. Not reading 300 different manga every week for 30 years.

>>279922800
Reading while looking at a digital screen is not fun. Reading while holding a book in your hands is :)

>>279922820
>Reading while looking at a digital screen is not fun
It is with music and naked girls on the screen.

>>279922807
Considering this retarded discussion is leading there then I guess yes.