I know every time she is wanked and all and was crippled for most of her appearances, but she doesn't feel like all that. She repeatedly gets tricked, overpowered and outskilled. And while Excalibur is wanked is ''the strongest Holy Sword'' it doesn't have many deeds of note. If anything, most people she fought are so good they don't even leave room for proper casting or dodge at point blank.
Mordred feels like an overall safer choice for Saber in spite of being at most a sidegrade just for the fact she plays safer. And even at night without the Sun boost Gawain feels like an overall more competent servant.

>>280483107 (OP)
She can barely match a hobo with a stick

It's just how Nasu writes. She is only a contender for the best with Avalon, so she isn't allowed to have it 99.9% of the time. She's only high tier without it, and as you said always crippled. Lancelot is a stronger swordsman, but he doesn't have Excalibur or a dragon core.

>>280483962
The dragon core oddly enough doesn't seem to impact in her stats in spite of solving the mana issues as well after it's activated.
It kinda feels like Excalibur's strongest title hurts more than it helps. It increases the cost for an unnecessarily higher damage, similar to how Mad Enhancement's power boost turns Lancelot into an ultra mana hog.

>>280483107 (OP)
She is strong but got saddled with a useless master as Shiro and an uncooperative one as Kiritsugu.
But more than anything... She is naive as fuck and a total goodie two shoes.
Anyone smarter and trickier could destroy her if they prepare and account for her personality
>Mordred feels like an overall safer choice for Saber
She is kinda the servant that would kill you if you piss her off just a bit.

>>280484240
>She is naive as fuck and a total goodie two shoes.
Only when she is urobutchered in zero. She spends half of fsn chastising Shirou for being too naive.

>>280484240
Mordred actually warns with a threat and a sword to the neck once and doesn't seem to get pissed off enough to do that with anything aside pointing out she is a woman at very least.
If Shirou would be dumb enough to do that twice however...

>>280484409
Even under Nasu her own writing is all over the place. She suckerpunches EMIYA upon sight, fights with an Invisible Sword and just mocks Lancer when he calls her a coward. But when they do the same to her like tricky swordsmanship she is the one that pulls the coward card and demands honorable combat.

>>280484409
...anon... You forgot Zero is a prequel?
Isn't she frequently chastising Shiro in FSN because she simply learned from her mistake in the previous war?

>>280484437
>If Shirou would be dumb enough to do that twice however...
Yeah... He either manages to first seduce Mordred into submission or he is fucking dead

>>280483107 (OP)
>>280483215
>She can barely match a hobo with a stick

>>280486734
Or even more simply Saber is not as extreme of a moralfag as Shirou but also not as extremely ruthless as Kiritsugu, and she doesn't like how either of them do things.

I swear it's like most Fate fans don't realize there is actually a space that exists between Shirou and Kerry. And that in between space happens to be fucking gigantic.

>>280487183
Oops! Image is here.

>>280483107 (OP)
Nero clears, that girl can die like 3 times

>>280487654
She can also break beams

>>280483107 (OP)
>She repeatedly gets tricked, overpowered and outskilled.
That tends to happen to a lot of 'the strongest' in Nasuverse works, you get used to it

>>280483107 (OP)
>hero who fights with honor are beaten by weaker people who don't fight straight
happens all the time in real life

Of course Seiba is the strongest. Rin wouldn't try to summon Seiba otherwise. Imagine getting some lame old guy who only shaves 10 of Berserker's lives off while you go have sex, what a loser.

>>280483107 (OP)
>Is Artoria even that much of a big deal?
Yes
>Why?
Because she's popular. THE most popular.

Let's not pretend for even a second that Type works on anything than whoever the author likes most at the time , or whoever is the biggest cashcow IRL. The universe will fucking bend to justify the favored character winning/being correct, or if they do lose, explain WHY it actually totally doesn't count.
To be clear, this is how most works of fiction work, but most other works at least try to be subtle about it.

>>280483107 (OP)
slaver!

>>280486734
For the millionth time her backstory and how she acted in life were already established in staynight. She waits on a hill of corpses at the brink of death before being summoned each time. She has no reason to act like a retard in zero just because pretty boy lancer flashes his cuck mole at her. She has no reason to play along with his deluded fantasy of larping as an honorable knight in a grail war, putting Kiritsugu in mortal danger to satisfy his ego. She has bigger priorities.

>>280490387
why is saber running with zack fair
i didnt vote for this

>>280483215
Said hobo has true magic

>>280486734
A prequel written after

>>280490517
that's the definition of a prequel

>>280490538
No it's not

>>280489979
That ASS. Whew! Imagine putting your cock in there.

>>280483107 (OP)
>played her game when I was too young and got to the sex scene.
>ruined every since, and now there's thousands and thousands of porn art of her.
This era was made for me.

>>280483215
she was built like a brick shithouse in this

>>280488887
Technically she was trying to summon (a) Saber, not necessarily Artoria.
And that’s more because the mages branded Saber the best class due to there being a Saber finalist in every HGW (which necessarily means another random class also survived to the end 3 times and in 2 of those at least scored a mutual kill since everyone died in the first 2)
I feel this is overblown because the Saber class back then REQUIRED you to have high base stats so it basically guaranteed you’d get a good hero while other classes don’t have that failsafe. And since you had to be older to be stronger back in FSN that also essentially guaranteed you’d get a hero with a good NP which isn’t a requirement like Riders did.

That kind of got rendered moot because everyone was using Catalysts anyway getting their own brand of super powerful heroes with powerful NPs.

is artoria (my wife) on the popularity caliber of miku?

>>280483107 (OP)
Yeah she is.

>>280484409
Yeah, the first bad end of FSN where Sherou bitches out of the war has her decide against killing him then and there at the last moment, and even later on you have another bad end where she can kill Sherou, not to mention his constant dreams of her ruthless past.

>>280483107 (OP)
10 seconds into his series and he's already better than Artoria

>>280483107 (OP)
Her lore is that she accepted to become King, was bound to her duty, was betrayed multiple times and died on the battlefield pathetically without achieving any of her goals and left her country to be destroyed.

She is extremely naive and fights with honor meaning anyone she is easily manipulated.

It doesn't help that all of the enemies in FSN are demigods with powers that both in their own lore and in-universe far surpass hers. It was actually extremely bullshit that she could match Cut Chulainn, Gilgamesh and especially Heracles. The strenght of Arthur shouldn't be close to beings that killed divine creatures and lived to fight.

>>280492495
She's literally an Artoria fanboy though.

>>280484772
>sucker punches Archer
Archer could easily react to the attack, he chose not to.
>uses invisible sword
That's not dishonorable. If that were the case you could argue that using the scabbard that makes her invincible is dishonorable too.
>mocks Lancer
Yeah, that was out of character. It becomes eapceially jarring later on when she fights Fake Assassin and almost gets Shirou and Rin killed for "honor" or whatever.

>>280492545
Artoria is a fangirl of literally everyone she meets and blocks once

>>280483107 (OP)
>while Excalibur is wanked is ''the strongest Holy Sword'' it doesn't have many deeds of note.
You need to be an ayyy lmao for it to show its true power.

She's incredibly marketable, so she's a big deal.

>>280484772
>She suckerpunches EMIYA upon sight
It's a normal engagement.
Archer would have defended easily against other servents, but Saber shocked him for obvious reasons.

Artoria is a big deal for my dick

>>280490507
>Muh true true magic
>Muh concepts

>>280493506
I wish she had a helmet too. She is beautiful, sure, but I really wanted a full armored version

>>280483107 (OP)
She has been rightfully mocked for her uselessness for years. In the end even the writers gave up and started mass-producing better ALTRIAS.

>>280487692
gawainbros... what is this...?

NOT THE NIPPONESE SCHOOL TEACHER

>>280483107 (OP)
In Nasu's latest work, she was the only one capable of killing not one but two world ending creatures, Cernunos and Abyssal Worm. So she's being wanked just fine.

>>280494725
Technically speaking she repurposed the system that Morgan set up so it’s more of a testament of her mage abilities instead.
Saber Artoria has the same potential but it was never realized. And even if she did, due to the Servant system she would get only a portion of those similar to Cu.

>>280494659
A symptom of the disease that is Last Encore. Nasu really thought that series was a good idea.

>>280490387
>just because pretty boy lancer flashes his cuck mole at her
Isn't that supposed to know some sort of weird spell? Or was it truly just natural charisma even after he became a servant?

>>280494659
Gawain without plot armor.

>>280495397
>>280490387
The mole doesn't affect her, her magic resistance is way too high for it to work.

>>280484409
In Fate route she secretly runs away from Shirou into caster's temple cause muh victims and then almost says her name for assassin cause muh honorable duel.
Nasu's writing of saber in FSN grail war is pretty inconsistent with Nasu's writing of saber in FSN flashbacks

>>280495397
It manifests as something akin to a passive but Artoria is unaffected. IIRC, Sola Ui, the wife of his master, was ALSO unaffected.

>>280492495
I wonder if the anime will reach the part where he has an emotional boner for the last episode.

>>280495795
I KNOW SOMEONE WILL REACH YOU ONE DAY

>>280495809

>>280484409
>>280495583
Yeah the people fixating over Urobutcher's chivalrytard Saber have a case of selective memory. Nasu's Saber flip-flops between ruthless kingbot, naive chivalrytard, and demure maiden going weak at the knees over dense japanese schoolboy whenever the plot demands it, all in the original work.

It's hard to argue with the astronomical success the character got though. On that front, Nasu hit the ball out of the park. Still, but upon closer inspection it's a real mess.

>>280495809
>>280495829

>>280496947
Hope the anime will show a small scene at least.
I am done waiting for the Ufotable version

>>280496898

>>280496898
>ruthless kingbot, naive chivalrytard
it's kinda weird where you have one scene of Shirou acknowledging that she did some fucked shit back when she was king, and then we have that retarded Assassin scene.

>>280496898
The demure maiden shit is almost exclusively reserved for the last 20 percent of the Fate route. Chivalrytardation is like 5 percent, and the rest is all kingbot mode.

>>280483107 (OP)
>killed Sephyr, who killed all the gods and ended the Age of Gods
>making her a godkiller-killer
>"not that big of a deal"
She's at least top 3, potentially top 2 of her verse retard. Only gets beaten by Void Shiki because of her conceptual cutting bullshit and easily matches up against Archetype Earth

>>280497435
Void Shiki doesn't even exist. Kara no Kyoukai is just a prototype for the Nasuverse.

>>280497435
>Only gets beaten by Void Shiki
laugh in Nasu retconning her shit

>>280495795
I hope it reaches to the part where he's seething about banquet of kings. literally my self insert.

>>280497196
Basically this. Everyone that met her alive agreed that the king didn’t understand people’s hearts because she acted like a cold-blooded dragon. But the Artoria we got rarely ever acts the part be it Zero or FSN. In fact, she is naïve most of the time.
There is no inhuman pragmatism anywhere that she used against the tons of enemies of Britain.
>>280497435
She didn’t kill Sefar. They never name the human hero that did so 14.000 years ago. She wields the weapon that was capable of doing so and Excalibur canonly do that under conditionals. It’s hardly a testament of her power or her weapon’s effectiveness and you could argue that it instead makes Excalibur worse because it only works as intended in really specific situations.
Some dumb people misinterpreted Archimedes’ line and then retards that didn’t play Umbral Star started parroting that Artoria was sent by the CF back in time when ina ctuality she was only sent in the present as a safeguard. Worse than that, the very story all but confirms that if it ends up with her needing to fell Sefar now the timeline goes to shit because we wouldn’t beat her two siblings.

>>280496898
The thing that annoys me the most is people acting like King Arthur the Knight is some kind of ultra ruthless killer who never had any honor whatsoever so that they can complain about her showing any honor in Zero. According to this amazing logic maybe she should've murdered civilians in FSN to help charge her mana which is something that gets brought up? But she doesn't do it. So just maybe she's not as ruthless as these people are claiming then.

>>280497586
>her showing any honor in Zero.
It's just too excessive in Zero which pissed people off.

>>280497677
It's not excessive, she gets enabled by Lancer who has a very chivalrous spirit, there was nobody like that in FSN so the situation is tangibly different. And her master this time is too ruthless for her taste rather than too much of a moralfag for her taste. People acting like she must pick a lane between ultra moralfag vs ultra ruthless are unbelievably dumb.

Waver never forgot

Finished Zero and started SN. Does saber ever stop winning with her skills and not looks?

>>280497586
>maybe she's not as ruthless as these people are claiming
No dumbass. Her ruthlessness led to the rebellion, the very philosophy behind the rally was "the king does not understand human emotions" by the time of FSN she was trying to change her ways. You can't just take character in point C as reference and say she never was like that in point A because point B happened that led to her becoming the character in point C

>>280497778
>Finished Zero and started SN
You've already ruined it for yourself.

>>280497739
It is extremely excessive in Zero. Her character is entirely warped around Lancer's insane chivalryfagging.

>>280497770
What a faggot

Who started the >Saber loves Fast Food meme?

>>280497778
read the fucking visual novel

I'm curious what zero babies get by not knowing who Agra is and why the grail fucks everything up. Like Zero's end makes no sense without HF

The thing that I personally can't get over is that supposedly everybody who ever saw her personally during her reign believed that she was just an incredibly feminine looking man, but once she's summoned to the modern age nobody ever goes "well, uh, are you a boy or a girl?", everybody just instantly recognizes her as a woman.

>>280497843
>the king does not understand human emotions
That doesn't mean she's automatically not chivalrous, you can be an emotionless bot and still do that.

>>280497922
It was addressed in Garden of Avalon.
There were skepticisms about her gender, but they don't give a shit as long as she does her job.

>>280497903
I mean, can you blame him? From his point of view there was an assassin roaming the shadows to kill off the masters using a proxy master and a ''honorable'' servant to fool them all. It doesn't help that when he got to Kayneth's corpse, the finishing blow was her mercy slash.
>>280497920
Nasu in Hollow Ataraxia but it was specifically Saber Alter then.

>>280497585
>no inhuman pragmatism anywhere that she used against the tons of enemies of Britain
That's because she deeply regrets her behavior, the methods she used, and her kingship as a whole. She forced herself to behave that way because she believed it was necessary, but her world fell apart and she blames herself for not understanding people and not being understood in turn. That personality is all backstory for her and it informs her behavior in Stay Night.

>>280497863
>You've already ruined it for yourself.

Eh. Probably would have dipped midway into SN with how protag currently being a goody two shoes.

>>280497920

>>280497977
>Nasu in Hollow Ataraxia but it was specifically Saber Alter then.
I know about that, but I was wondering who started that meme shit with normal Saber.

>>280497990
Just secondaries misattributing gag traits that don't normally apply.

>>280497922
>>280497955
They also address the fact that whoever draws Caliburn gets their aging halted, with Excalibur (or Avalon) having a similar effect contributing to that (and one of the reasons her identity can be deduced) as well as that Gawain was her body double.
Not sure if they bring Merlin's illusionism.
Thing is, there is enough room for deniability and also for people to not care or never say anything against her. They were also in a land of magic having to fight monsters and witches.

>>280497990
The answer is always secondaries. People probably thought Saber Alter was like a shadow from Persona and that meant in their minds that normal Saber must have also craved fast food.

>>280497986
This dress looks better than the "sexy third ascension" FGO dress

>>280497983
If you're talking about DEEN SN, it's fine (I tend to defend it more than 99% of anons here do) but it has the common issue of making Shirou look retarded by not using his monologue (which was where 3/4 of his character came from) at all besides rare cases when it's turned into spoken words.
Even just by reading the Fate route of the VN you can grasp that he's way more caring and attentive than he looks at first.
>>280497986
'member when SAlter's ahoge was just lowered/flaccid instead of being gone outright?

>>280498070
different tastes

How old is Arturia technically when FSN happens?

>>280498114
35.

>>280498102
Man what a cursed fucking image.

>>280498114
Old enough to have children even if Mordred's growth was sped up. Some of the Round Table seats were filled by sons of her knights as well.
It would be safe to assume she is 28+.
Whether she'd have grown further without the magic weapons halting her age or the bustier body is on Rhongomyniad isn't specified though.

>>280498143
Not cursed enough

>>280498114
35 biologically and 15 visually. She's the cunniest of the girls Shirou's fucked besides Caren. If you wanna see how Arturia looks without her Excalibur un-aging powers, check out Lancer Arturia
>>280498143
Aron's simply the best
>>280498190
OH SHIT

>>280497926
Hoooooooly shit. No you can't. Are you actually dumb? You can't be emotionless and chivalrous. Chivalry isn't detached from feeling. It's deeply embedded into pride, the most radical of emotions. If you were chivalrous your pride wouldn't let the commonfolk starve to death to win a war. It's outright stated the knights grew more and more frustrated with after she exhausted entire resources of their villages, which ended up benefiting them in the long run. It was the ideal move but far removed from chivalry, to the point they said "fuck it I'd rather serve an honorable king than a genius king"

>>280498102
>>280498143
It's always funny to think about how Illya is the only one there that's actually 18+, barring Saber.

>>280498190
>>280498198
If there's one thing I want Takeuchi to draw before retiring from illustration, it's Emiya Alter.

>>280498223
Feels like they intended to have an Illya route considering that she drops that she is older than Shirou

>>280498251
>e they intended to have an Illya route
They did. A lot of HF stuff are scrapped from Illya route.

>>280498198
Lancertoria cheats her apparent age too, she looks ten years younger than she should instead of twenty

>>280498190
man, it's so much more obvious
>>280498198
>She's the cunniest of the girls Shirou's fucked besides Caren.
Best girl

>>280498262
Wait really? I'm not knowledgeable about the behind the scenes aside Nasu rewriting from the female-oriented Prototype and then the Proto-FSN that would have Tachie.

>>280498272
Not really, most people I meet in their twenties don't look much different from they were at 18 or so

>>280498198
>check out Lancer Arturia
I sure as hell hope this isn't the canon look for aging Artoria and its just the lance giving her big tits. I like cow tits in my ero doujins but I can't take any character with them seriously

>>280498312
jesus christ

>>280498329
It is a terrible design to pander to the gacha audience, and Takeuchi didn't make it so you can think of it as non canon if you want.

>>280498223
Not only that, they ham it up in HA by mentioning she drives to Shirou's house alone on multiple occasions AND show her drinking like it's nothing
>>280498292
There were also routes planned for Caster and Rider, though they were scrapped long before Illya's was. Also some conceptual work on a route where Shirou and Shinji would enter an uneasy alliance and be at odds with Rin and Saber.
>>280498290
HA trio are my favorite Nasuverse characters
>>280498329
blame FGO artists for making their Servants look retarded

>>280498329
They were pretty vague at whether it's because she aged or because of the Rhongomyniad's influence.

>>280498198
I don't play FGO, is the Lancer Arturia thing about her being "what if Saber never stopped aging like a normal person" canon lore confirmed by Takeuchi and Nasu or is it just a fan theory?

>>280498373
You know Takeuchi doesn't really like it when he only draws its for one time.

>>280498373
Didn't he direct the art team in the movie or something?

>>280498394
I don't think Illya ever drinks in HA, and driving is what Sella is for.

>>280498398
where are her nipples

>>280498394
They are some of the best written and the most interesting.

>>280498290
>, it's so much more obvious
Fate route has Rin teasing Shirou for having the same answer as Archer on two occasions.
It's obvious in hind-sight.

she's probably done DUI and there's nothing (You) can do about it

>>280498373
You know, it's really strange that Lancer Arturia aside people never drew fanart of this hypothetical Shin Arturia even though "what if Saber but taller and curvier" sounds like a pretty good pitch for fanart that people are sure to like.

>>280498398
>that part of her body, you know, the "part"... if you know you know!!!
was this bio written by a redditor? god I fucking hate how unserious fgo is.

>>280498408
Check >>280498398
They don't specify. All 3 versions of her like that have wielded Rhongomyniad for too long so there is room for both aging and for Goddess Rhongomyniad's influence. The divergences are:
>Normal Lancer: Artoria just wielded Rhongomyniad as her main weapon than Excalibur which caused a difference in appearance
>Lion King: Bedivere's reluctance made him fail to deliver Excalibur in the 3rd time. Due to that Artoria misses the timing of her death and keeps living. Without Excalibur she uses Rhongomyniad for the centuries that follow and this morphs her into a living goddess by inheriting the traits of Goddess Rhongomyniad
>Lancer Alter: The Lion King that was being transformed into a goddess wanted to remain human and used any way she could find to stop the metamorphosis. She eventually reached all the way to the Heaven's Feel timeline and drew from the grail mud that afflicted Saber Alter to purposefully curse herself. This allowed her to remain human. This Artoria ends up as the leader of the Wild Hunt, the King of Storms.
In all situations she had Rhongomyniad. In none it's specified if she'd naturally have grown like that.

RELEASE IT!

>>280498592
I am surprised there aren't that many aged up fanarts, but there are some. None give her giant tits because that would be retarded.

why is the holy grail such a bitch? >Kiritsugu I have a question. 2 ships with 200 and 300 passengers are sinking which one will you fix? Oh the 300th one?! Ok you fucking faggot shoot your daughter and wife

>>280498102
>I tend to defend it more than 99% of anons here do
nta but it's deen stay night is fine for what it is, but the music is definitely pretty damn good

>>280498619
Worse: she is a Sakurai character. And Camelot was intended to be hers.
The story is as follows: originally, Nasu wouldn't have much influence in FGO. But the Year 1 was super complicated with Higashide (Apocrypha's writer) and Sakurai (Prototype Fragments' writer) writing most of the chapters. Around the 5th, America, they both got the hang of it (only Higashide did, Sakurai arugably only learns what she is doing years later and in every interview Nasu and Higashide had to cover for her) and Nasu got moved to write again for FGO.
So he took over the 6th chapter. In-game, the original 6th chapter is named Jerusalem which was gonna be a Sakurai chapter, which is why there had so many servants she is in charge of. But then Nasu took over, wrote a new plotline using Artoria and the Round Table, they invaded amidst the crusades, conquered everything and estabilished a new Camelot there, rightfully becoming one of the best chapters in the game and most of FGO's fame comes from then onwards.
The issue is: both Lancer Artorias were already Sakurai characters, whatever plotline she intended got canned, she clearly doesn't know what do to with them and never puts any effort in either. The normal Lancer got relegated to comedic events, the Lancer Alter took fucking years to have a small (admittedly good but small) showing. At the hands of another writer.
And so she is one of the many servants with the Sakurai curse. She has everything stacked to have something good done with her but will forever be a ''potential man''.

>>280498793
The Einzberns tried to cheat in the 3rd HGW, summoned a servant completely cursed down to the bones and when it died the grail had been cursed since then. It will always try to twist a wish for destruction due to that and it's borderline impossible to make a proper wish due to that since the wish has already been claimed by him

>>280498762
>dead mom haircut
Does it count if she is already dead?

>>280498899
He did nothing wrong

And it's hilarious that HA recontextualizes HF to mean Sakura really was that much of a piece of shit

>>280498899
Does this apply to every grail?

>>280498762
Curvier doesn't instantly mean turning her into a retarded titty monster. I personally imagine an adult Arturia to look somewhat like Bazett as far as body type goes, neither androgynously slender in normal clothes nor a broodmare like Sakura.

>>280499013
>Medusa says all women lust to be dicked as part of her nature and uses Bellerophon to ride him into fucking Sakura
>when he reverts the situation, Sakura actually says Medusa is completely right that women want to be dicked and makes Shirou fuck her hard
HA was something else

>>280499013
>Sakura really was that much of a piece of shit
I remember Urobuchi did mention something about the dark side of a woman in regard to Sakura or her route.
I am not sure.

>>280499016
If they are derived from a FSN timeline, yes. So it's cursed in Zero, cursed in UBW and HF, likely cursed in SF because those idiots got a portion of the grail during the 3rd HGW.
It is NOT cursed in Apocrypha and in none of the Sub-HGWs derived from it. Which is why the faulty failsafes are working and the grail deployed a Ruler (Jeanne D'arc). Rulers are sent when there is a risk the world gets destroyed.

>>280499059
HA was perfect.

>>280499059
Wasn't that scene complete fantasy...wasn't it just what Avenger-Shirou wanted Sakura and Rider to be like, and the Matrix just warped around to making it come true?

>>280499013
Didn't Kirei note she was that much of a piece of shit and she didn't need to pretend she got a new personality?

>>280499016
Only the ones based on the timeline where the Grail was cursed during the 3rd Holy Grail War and only Grails that are connected to the Fuyuki Grail in some way. There are subspecies Grail wars that used different sources or originate in timelines where the Grail was never tainted. Apocrypha is one such timeline where instead of the Greater Grail being tainted during the 3rd war, it was stolen by Darnic Prestone Yggdmillennia before anyone could wish upon it and the war fell apart. Avenger wasn't summoned in that war, with the Einzberns summoning a Ruler in his place, and so he couldn't spoil the soup.

Explain this fatefags

>>280499170
Imagine him with slightly longer hair and the body of a woman.

Congrats, you're now looking at Arcueid.

>>280499138
That scene is actually vague because it's one of the Eclipse scenes you unlock after beating the game. So whether it's True Awakened Shirou or not is up on the air.
We do know while most of HA is happening due to the restarted HGW, the ending confirms that Rin legitimately overlapped the timelines with that failed experiment which is why both Artoria and Medusa are still around even in the epilogue.
Some of the scene IS fantasy because Medusa casted Breaker Gorgon midway but Shirou noticed and dispelled it (which is when Sakura makes him fuck Medusa)

>>280499224
His face isn't the same.

>>280499305
Only his eyebrows, and perhaps his chin could be softened a bit. But they still look like brother and sister.

>>280499224

>>280499151
Yes but its Kirei so waifu fags try to excuse her through that.

>>280499013
One of my favorite aspects about HA's story was how it clarified the way Angra's possession works and left a mark both on Shirou and Sakura's images. Instead of being
>you're evil now
it's actually
>whatever traits were suppressed inside you are put on the forefront
which is akin to an inverted personality rather than an opposite one. Sakura having cuck guilt and being a yandere were always parts of her character, and so was Shirou being a horndog with a twisted sense of honesty. You spent allll of SN seeing Shirou take down characters like Gil only to then find out he's a saint only in comparison to them.
One of my favorite parts that hinted massively towards the Angra connection was how Avenger was hellbent on wanting Bazett to leave him behind while he gets pulverized by Berserker for just long enough to guarantee her safety. Unlike Archer in Fate who had a modicum of cockiness driving him to do his best, Avenger just wanted the best for the girl he liked and did not care a single time about his wellbeing besides when he was acting cowardly.

>>280499116
>>280499159
man this shit is fuckin tragic, everyone is just fighting to lose in the end

>>280499370
I've yet to recover from seeing picrel
Why is this official art?

>>280499523
I liked the part that shows it isn't coincidence that inhabited Shirou. Angra admits like Shirou he also wanted to be a hero of justice. He wants to save people too. He wasn't just betrayed by his village, he was betrayed by his own hatred left there to exist even after they died off and was cheated from revenge but he always wanted to do something to save others.
Which he does in HA.

>>280499586
Even if the grail was tainted, some wishes would fuck up the timeline like Saber's wish for example.

>>280499590
Shirou is cute

>>280499523
lol, nice edit
she may as well be wearing nothing over her crotch and legs anyways

>>280499396
Sakura is a bitch. She hates everything about her life and everything around her. The shit in HF is too much for her and she embraces her inner bitch, but the grail possession also pushes what was already there. Being raised by the Matous permanently stained her personality, but she tries to be a good person anyway because of Shirou's influence.
That's the appeal of her character, but HF does a terrible job at selling her. She has a terrible boring role in her own route, and has much less screen time because she becomes a villain. HA is a much better showing for her.

>>280499678
she is a meme in HA

>>280499625
Truly the best
>>280499654
Would heroic spirit Emiya-chan use a hairband to pull her hair backwards?

>>280499586
Yeah but there is stuff you can't fix and can even fix anyway. HF proves you can still make a proper miraculous wish in spite of all that for example. But pretty much the HGW has always been a sham. The wish was just a consequence to drag participants and the end goal was reaching the Root which would theoretically fix even that but the Three Families lost sight of that for self-serving victory.
Nasu was a person with a darker outlook in life back then. You can see he is more positive and hopeful since.
As the other anon said, depending on the wish you can make more damage than good. Artoria's wish to restore Britain either would have nuked the timeline since Britain's fall is a necessary timelocked event, or it wouldn't do anything due to the timelocks in place. Changing the past just changes at most 100 years of history in that time period per Extella since each 100 years the world ''saves the file'' and vague wishes like that are the most potentially dangerous.
Ironically, dumb materialistic wishes are the safest possible like wishing for eternal fortune, a pile of cash. There is llittle room for it to spiral into something undesirable and even then could be managed FGO happens exactly because someone made a wish like that and did NOT get Monkey's Paw'd.

>>280499586
Also the Einzberns themselves are cursed. Even without Angra.
It was lost in translation which was only learned years later in FGO. As it turns out, those idiots used Siegfried's Das Rheingold to build a copy of the Holy Grail of Christ.
This is what Illya was singing in german and the true nature of the HGW. The Einzberns live near the Rhine River, after Siegfried is killed, Hagen throws his gold down and it ends in the possession of the Einzberns, who then use it to make the wish-granting device.
Siegfried hopes the Einzberns didn't get cursed, but there is more than enough evidence in the franchise that indicates they ARE. It isn't something that corrupts wishes like Angra but they always get cheated from it no matter what. Even in timelines that the grail is otherwise normal and they'd win, something conspires against them succeeding in some shape or form.

>>280483107 (OP)

My understanding is that heroic spirits are as strong as their mythos make them out to be. They are the manifestation of heroic ideals. The way i understand that is that the perception of their stories and ideas probably factors in on the strength of each incarnation or something along those lines.

I wonder if Fate Shirou just stick with caliburn or use kanshou and bakuya?
He doesn't seem that impressed by it compare to UBW Shirou.

>>280499946
Are the Einzberns an extinct family after HF and UBW? It seems like they were going for broke with Ilya, who die in both these routes, taking the clan with her.

>>280498762
>>280498592
Perfection.

>>280499946
>golden rule of the line
Lmao, I wonder if this translation pre-dates One Piece's Raftel.

>>280500301
Einzberns (True) are long dead. The homunculi of the Einzberns took over the family afterwards and have been working towards their dead masters' goal since then.
Einzbern Homunculi shouldn't have monetary issues, but they are on the verge of giving up. They broke their own rules, broke their taboos, mixed foreign genes in their bloodline (Kiritsugu) and tried nearly everything. Illya is an unique success, the best of the best they could ever produce. If Illya fails, they give up because they deem it's just impossible for them to win at all since they can't make anything better than her.
I don't know of Fate and UBW, but according to Nasu Shirou's revival as proof of a connection to the Root and replication of the Third Magic suffices as a success for them since it counts as achieving their goal.
They haven't given up in the Apocrypha timeline since the grail was just stolen and they don't have interest in minor grails. The same as HF likely would apply if they learns what Sieg did though.
>>280500165
Kanshou and Bakuya aren't noteworthy in power but he likely burns less mana to replicate them. He makes Caliburn and Excalibur when he really needs firepower but it's more that most of the time it's just better to project a bunch of Kanshou and Bakuyas. The efficiency either of those swords or himself projecting them is far better but in Fate he didn't get enough exposure to Archer to learn properly those things.

>>280499678
>Sakura is a bitch. She hates everything about her life and everything around her.
I don't see what's wrong with that?

>>280499819
>I wish for unlimited money
>grail drowns you in money, literally.
yeah I dunno seems too risky, my wish would be for eternal happiness which would probably wipe out all jews, women with tattoos and buldogs by consequence

this wish granter with a twist ending reminds me of roadside picnic

>>280501195
actually not roadside picnic but Stalker SoC

>>280498272
>>280498312
I mean she is also 35 but looks 25
She used Excalibur for 10 years then stopped while OG Saber never stopped

>>280498329
Canonically she's 1 cm taller and 1 kg heavier than Morgan, her biological sister, so I'm pretty sure she's just fully grown Artoria.

>>280483107 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCL_EqNKpVA
this should explain everything OP you are welcome

>>280498211
Artoria was never an emotionless robot or lacking humanity even during her reign, if she did the rebellion would have never happened the way it did, because she would have executed Mordred and Lancelot immediatly as weel as being far more ruthless towards any opposition.

>>280501733
Artoria vs rebels
>Let these fools try their hand against the invincible king
kino

>>280500978
Eternal happiness would probably kill everyone in the planet but you before drugging you up for the rest of your life.
>>280501702
The fact no other Fate anime has managed to receive a soundtrack on par with DEEN's stuff speaks for itself. Prillya comes close at times but then we have to talk about Prillya

>>280483107 (OP)
She is the designated protector of planet earth. So yes, she's a big deal.

>>280501647
Good point. If she is that close to her sister it’s reasonable to assume that she’d reach her size naturally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyuFc_o2vHo

>>280501733
The rebellion happened because WE DONT WANT A PERFECT KING BECAUSE THAT REMINDS US OF HOW FLAWED WE ARE AND HOW UNFAIR THE WORLD IS

>>280500634
He uses Kanshou and Bakuya because those swords did not have original wielders, so the projection process doesn't interfere with his own fighting style. He is also a preferred dual wielder.

Reminder that grail wars are pointless

>>280501896
imagine fucking them both at the same time

>>280502029
Hey now, most mages who participated in it got what they wanted. They wished to connect to the Root, and they got it, by dying horrible deaths and being sent there.

What language did Saber speak? Latin or Welsh?

>>280502835
Yes

>>280502835
nigga it's a fictional character

>>280483107 (OP)
>Artoria
*Altria

>>280503315
You have to try harder.

>>280503315
Does TM/Aniplex have to wait till Nasu dies to change that or what? I've also heard stuff about it being a license/contract issue

>>280504122
Probably. Extella has no such issue and she is written as Artoria.
I prefer Arthuria though.

I don't have much against FGO but I really wish Higashide got a do-over with Apocrypha now after Traum.
The teamwork of the Black Servants in an actual war situation, having to fight an army 10 times as big was really good.

>>280483107 (OP)
it's Altria BTW, official translation of her name

>>280483107 (OP)
She was only tricked once by the teacher (which didn't actually do anything and who states it won't work twice), only overpowered by fucking Hercules and Gilgamesh, and never outskilled. The rules of the Grail War screw her over a lot. Even ignoring Avalon, she's dependent on her master's mana rather than her innate production, so all of her stats are severely nerfed and she can only use Excalibur a couple times when she would normally be able to spam it for the lulz. She wouldn't need to "cast" it either because the invocation is another HGW rule. Her feats are pretty impressive in FSN despite her nerfs though, she dodges multiple "undodgeable" reality-warping attacks, casually negates AoG magic, and defeats every other servant at some point. She also looks worse now because there was loads of powercreep in the spinoffs.

>>280504449
>invocation is another HGW rule
Nah, invocation is natural. A ton of stuff of importance has some sort of chant, mentally or not. It isn't exclusive to HGW, servants or even mages. It doesn't necessarily applies to techniques though but more often than not mystical artifacts of powers tend to do.

>>280504449
It's funny talking about the kung fu teacher, because it wasn't even Saber that got most embarrassed by him.
It was Rider, who got her head caved in with a single punch.

>>280504266
>I prefer Arthuria though.
Same. Though Arturia's also fine since it's hard to use the -rthu- in nipspeak
Here's Seiba's statcard from Zero, btw. All 7 Servants got them with the release of the 3rd LN volume

>>280504535
>It isn't exclusive
That doesn't make it not an explicit rule of the HGW. It's directly explained as a restriction of the war.
>It doesn't necessarily applies to techniques
It doesn't necessarily apply to artifacts either.

>>280504705

>>280504772
Thanks for the pic. Wish I could grab the individual ones in hidef but ig that'll do.
I'm a complete sucker for Takeuchi's Zero art. Almost makes the LN look better than decent-ish.

>>280504772
It's kind of amazing how utter shit Bluebeard is as a servant. The Zero servants are much weaker than the OG's lineup in general, but he really is the bottom of the barrel.

>>280504913
He is full Noble Phantasm and the tentacles unending, coming with his own infinite mana supply.
Depending on the point of view he is really good. Like, when the tentacles got the better of Saber, she needed Diarmuid to free her. She was deprived of Excalibur's name release sure, but he is essentially always winning by just stalling sending an infinite army from a safe range.

Saber having giant tits isn't retarded. What is retarded is her showing off half her bosom and not even noticing the effect it has like in FGO. She is noble and everything, but she will definitely use her figure strategically to lord over Mordred,Taiga and Rin.

Now I wanna commission Crazy Clover Club for a doujin feat Shirou and giant Gray hooking up and traumatizing Waver

>>280505043
I definitely wish she got an actual serious appearance. They made the entire design and backstory and then shelved her.

>>280502835
>When you find out what the bri'ish servants sound like when not speaking japanese.

>>280490551
reality denier-kun...

>>280504913
Isn't that the case for most Casters? Medea got lucky in UBW and managed to snowball the odds of the war by building an entire network of mana faucets. If a Caster had the same stats as the warrior type classes they'd be unstoppable, unless cornered by said classes with no means of backup. It's a similar case to Assassin, where they'd be way too annoyingly busted if they weren't gimped off the get-go.

>>280505197
Did the "cripes" translation of FSN ever come out actually, or did it get abandoned? You know, the super britbong'd one.

>>280497435
>in the lore of the gacha #73 and the absolutely canon sidestory VN she killed a gorillon gods
jobbed to a teacher still

>>280505043
The way they draw eyes always creeps me out.

>>280505379
Pretty much. More often than not the Casters warrant multiple servants teaming up to beat them after some point and it'd only get worse leaving them be.

>>280505441
Not gacha bro. Ironically Nasu used the gacha to advertise that game and lore instead.

>>280483107 (OP)
Kiritsugu hated Saber because she behaved like a bulldyke trying to steal his wife in Fate Zero.

>>280506340

>>280506372

>>280506340
>Wants Seibah to blend in
>Has the blonde foreigner woman dress in a full business suit in 90s Japan
What did Kiritsugu mean by this?

>>280505136
Yeah, at least they didn't make the same mistake with Caster Artoria.

The least appreciated thing in the VN is Caster's Bites the Dust trap. That bad end got me real good, god damn.

>>280505647
Yeah but in that same gacha literally any HS can beat Sefar in the free mode, and gets similar illustrations. Even Li Shuwen and Elly.

>>280508053
huh?

>>280508053
Are you talking about the one in UBW in the church or the one in Fate where you decide to go meet Assassin alongside Saber?

>>280508339
>>280508421
I think it was in UBW, it happened if you tried to ask Issei about Caster. If you did Issei goes nuts and stabs Shirou like a hundred times in the student council room, then kills himself.

>>280508702
Oh, THAT.
Yeah I genuinely got goosebumps from that. Black eyes with blood-red pupils and scaaaary red/garbled text has been ruined for me thanks to 2010s internet horror, but Issei being passively possessed and suddenly turning into a puppet that kills you and then itself was scarier than most if not all of HF for me.

>>280506372

>>280508702
>>280508860
oh yeah

>>280508702
>>280508053
Its really hilarious how Shirou gets around it by bursting into the student council room and tearing off Isseis clothes to verify he had no Command Spells, something Caster legitimately did not see coming

>>280509103
sexual competition

>>280509864
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKVMjSIEPI4

>>280483107 (OP)
>over 200 replies to this bait
Powerscaling is for pushy unfunny retards at the best of times, doing it for a series like Fate is like trying to find the clean way out of a pig's asshole. It doesn't fucking matter.

>>280510266
>hearing Rin's voice again
I love her.

>>280510567
>bait
Not every opinion you disagree with is bait

>It doesn't fucking matter.
Oh, so you didnt even disagree with it, you just dont think it should be discussed because you personally dont care. There's been fruitful discussion over multiple Fate spinoffs and the VN in this thread, I dont know why you're butthurt

Not sure if it was an oversight but kinda weird her stats were constant even under Medea
Though I guess we can handwave it with her refusing to obey Medea

>>280512030
she was so close to falling, man

>>280512097
What THE FUCK did Nasu mean by that?

>>280512097
She acts a bit anemic in the anime. I imagined her arms and waist shaking as if putting strength into them the entire time while reading the VN. That part about her having her virginity teased and tainted was wild, kek
>>280512160
Nasu's a girl and she's got a bondage fetish. Just look at Shirou being forcefully tied and undressed in HA's epilogue

>>280497435
If you're taking in literally all the lore of the nasuverse and all the innerworkings of it, she's not up there especially not since Nasu went full eldritch cosmic lore with characters like Abigail. Saber is strong and Avalon is one of the "this can do anything" things in the nasuverse but she's still a servant/entity relegated to earthly stuff, and in nasuverse anything that has an origin to a power external that of earth's, completely mogs on earth servants. This is why people meme the fact that Gilgamesh, probably the strongest earth related servant/entity, can easily be killed by the 12 year old kid with a keyhole in her head.

>>280512233
Kind of off topic, but is there a list or something of which CGs were in the original release of FSN and which were added in Realta Nua (then got modded in retroactively into the non-family friendly version)? I'm asking because I remember someone saying that the CG of Saber in that dress was a Realta Nua original CG that wasn't in the 2004 release. Surely there were more.

>>280512358
Realta Nua had her skirt down where the original had it hiked up

>>280512358
As someone who went out of his way to read the original mirror moon release of FSN a few months back, that CG wasn't a RN addition.
I'll try and summarize what I remember got added in RN off videos I watched as a method of comparison:
>Shirou holding Berserker's rock sword during Nine Lives Blade Works
>Sakura in the classroom during the afternoon
>Saber vs. Assassin duelling blades in Fate, and Saber finishing Assassin off in UBW
>Rin reaching out for Saber while she's trapped in Archer's sword jailcell
>Kuzuki death gripping Saber during their first encounter, and also hitting her in the back of her head
>Saber in the bus next to Shirou
>Saber wiping Illya's mouth while she's eating
>Saber with the lion cub
note that I excluded things like sprites of Rin holding her bowl out & wearing an apron, Saber in Caster's dress, and CGs like the forest variant of Illya&Berserker when she's wearing her regular attire instead of her winter coat.
Safe to say they added a lot of extra stuff to stay night, especially music. The only thing the '04 release has over RN is the lack of music sometimes resulting in better track selection for certain scenes. Wandering Shadow, for example, didn't play until you saw Rider for the first time in the Matou house.

>>280512788
and yes by Saber in Caster's dress I mean the dedicated sprite of her wearing the dress. The CG existed even back then.
>>280512737
do you have pics of the RN CG? last I checked the image was identical between versions

>>280512788
I remember someone pointed out in the original VN Herk was even stronger since in the battle at the forest they reveal Illya only rendered him insane but didn't give him the power boost until then.
In Realta Nua they removed that line.

>>280512852
Now that you mention it, I remember when Berserker only had 1 voiceline. It was a pretty repetitive voiceclip of WWWRRROOOOOAAAARRRGHHHH and it almost became comedic at the end of the readthrough, but I found it to be scarier than his drier voiced groans in RN. They use that audio clip in F/UC if you're interested in hearing it

>>280512233
>reddit meme

>>280512997
Is this equally reddit but lewd piece enough to satiate you?

>>280483107 (OP)
Trust Nasu. If Saber isn't strong enough for something now she will be in the near future.

>>280512928
Uh, he had two kinds of voice acting? I only remember the WROAGH one. The one that is in Unlimited Codes. I also didn't remember him speaking normally at all even though everyone swears that it happens in the VN. I have no idea what sort of bootleg version I read about a decade ago.

>>280513054

>>280513109
He spoke about 3 lines of dialogue regarding Shirou being able to create Excalibur even though the sword's an imitation/apparition in Saber's case during his death in the Fate route. Almost everyone remembered that part cause his natural speaking voice was very gentle, manly and also melancholic.
Realta Nua replaced the one WRROOAAARRRGHHHH with slower and more human-sounding wwhhoooaaarrrrghhhhhhhs. Just look any of his scenes up on YT if you want clarification, almost all the vids there use RN.

>>280513221
Oh yeah, he sounds so much lamer, wow.

>>280513315
Keep in mind that even after the voice change, the old sound still appears in a few select cases. Hollow Ataraxia for example uses it for when he's chasing Bazett and Avenger in the forest, albeit with a blur filter to make it sound like he's far away and getting closer

>>280513221
Come to think of it, I read the Fate route with a different, non-voiced version of the VN, then switched to a newer, voiced build. So no wonder I didn't remember him speaking when he wasn't voiced to begin with and it's like a single throwaway line.

>>280513399
Since we're on the topic of VAs, it was pretty weird to hear what Saber's VA sounds like normally. Most women who are VAs either do voices at their normal pitch or higher, but her Saber voice is a good deal lower than her normal voice. I never would have guessed because she sounds so natural as Saber (and I imagine pitching downward is harder than pitching up, especially for women).

>>280513472
This has always made me wonder if a big reason we never get a fate route anime remake is because her VA wouldn't want to voice an entire anime. She can still do the voice in FGO skits and advertisements just fine, but I imagine it gets harder to maintain it as she gets older.

>>280513536
Yeah, people meme about Goku's VA not being able to scream well anymore, but I imagine pitching down becomes harder too as your voice gets more hoarse with age.

>>280513472
It goes without saying, but most of the Fate CVs went through vocal performance changes during the first 8 or so years of them acting the characters. DEEN SN is the starting point, with Realta Nua being recorded right after or in conjunction with the anime. By the UBW anime and Hollow on PS Vita, the cast had received their final styles.
>Saber sounds deeper in Stay Night, but switches between higher-pitched and lower-pitched when in and out of battle now
>Shirou sounds less nasally and is higher pitched
>Sakura got rid of her syphilis and sounds slightly deeper
>Souichirou either got replaced or sounds less monotone in the high-pitched way, I've completely forgotten
>Caren sounds higher-pitched and less outwardly masochistic
>Sella is higher pitched (?) and Leysritt's speech pattern is more noticeable (??)
The only misses for me were Souichirou and Caren, the latter because her performance in Tiger Colosseum (which is her first if I'm not mistaken) sounds super hot for no reason at all. I guess they made her higher-pitched to match her age better, but I think the original vocal tone made her more distinct.
>>280513619
lmfao

Man, didn't Caster's VA pass away about a year ago around this time...what a shame.

>>280513702
Yeah, I know cause she was also Carmilla's (Best Liz) VA

Anons, if hypothetically magecraft is real, and hypothetically around my city a hypothetical Grail War was about to take place which class I should summon if hypothetically the Saber and Caster classes were already taken ?
hypothetically

>>280483962
Except Avalon is easy to counter if you know about it.

Avalon being deployed just phase out Saber from existence, but she can't control where she reappear. (Which is why she was constantly taking note of the distance from Gilgamesh in the VN and how many steps away she is from him).

If you know that it basically functions like Phase Shift. You can bait out Avalon and lay out traps at the phase out location, or prep your real attack to immediately frame trap her as soon as she reappear.

In fighting games and MOBA, immobile invulnerability/parrying have seriously game losing downside if your enemy anticipate it.

>>280513589
Her actual voice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf1KL1b4VCY is closer to her other roles like Henrietta. Of course the early VNs were never made with the voice cast in mind, but I'm kind of surprised Nasu never stated anything like saber is intentionally making her voice sound lower to pass as a man and that Lily's is her normal voice. I am glad he didn't do anything like that, since her deeper voice is great.
Some other VAs that surprise me are Atsumi voicing both Anya and Frieren, and Nanachi is pretty much Shiori's normal speaking voice.

>>280513692
Rin's consistency is pretty impressive. Any sort of Fate media I hear her in, she sounds the exact same.

>>280513777
Assuming no hypothetical bullshit irregularities? Your best bet is unironically assassin. You have no way to predict how stupidly game breaking any servant can be, so actually worrying about class is pointless. Your best bet is to grab a decent Hassan and target masters while staying hidden as best as you can. Only attack while their servants are distracted with each other though, initiating an attack yourself is a death flag. Also maybe hold back if there's a real bullshit servant that requires the rest to team up.

Hypothetically.

>>280513802
Yeah but you're forgetting that without being activate Avalon passive skill makes Saber near inmortal (I think that only total vaporization or Behead can kill her), Shirou just by having avalon stuck inside survived being gutted by berserker

>>280513777
Assassin per Apocrypha. When you remove plot armor from the board, Assassin becomes the de facto best servant.
The reason they were forced to summon Jack and Semiramis is because in the Apo Worldline, Assassins went meta and kickstarted an era of victories that made them the most dangerous class possible. They were killing masters left and right and even servants too by ambushing them while vulnerable or mid-battle.
They also have low cost so they can actually fight properly unlike super strong heroes that get cripples or can use their NP once (like Artoria's whole issue in FSN)
But since the amount of Hassans is limited, they all got their characteristics exposed and people started HGWs with countermeasures for every single Hassan straight away.

If you can actually afford a catalyst, I'd assume Chiron is one of the safest Archers possible. He can use Territory Creation, Presence Concealment and hold his own in a fight melee. He isn't flashy but should be able to self-sustain and elaborate strategies to win along the way.

>>280513809
Yep, I realized that too the moment I heard her in HA. It's only when the scenario becomes more comedic or tsun that Kana Ueda uses her prickly high-pitched bickering voice, which ended up becoming part of Rin's vocal performance more and more as time went on. It's like a gearboxr: when the situation gets funny, she's kicked into 6th and ends up sounding like some of her other roles.

>>280513866
Avalon isn't that convenient as if it'd heal instantly wounds.
... not as far as I know at least.

>>280513777
Yeah, an Assassin is a pretty good bet, but moreso because you can't have a bad roll when every Assassin is a Hassan. Lancers tend to have really good defensive stats and kits, too.

>>280513939
>but moreso because you can't have a bad roll when every Assassin is a Hassan
Not exactly. Kirei rolled the one jobber Hassan.

>>280513895
The treasure chest saga in the Tohsaka mansion is peak HA for me. Especially when Rin gets into an argument with her future self and gets self-dunked on.

>>280483107 (OP)
I always had the impression she had a Bleach Ichigo thing going on where it's clear that everybody else has cooler shit going on or whatever hax, but when the plot needs to she can just scream EXCALIBUHHHHHHH and blow up the alien god or whatever somehow during a climax.

>>280513866
That doesn't help when your opponent is preparing to frame trap you with the mother of all Touch of death combo/Nuking/the level of traps laid it instantgibs the target on frame 0.

Basically like baiting out parry in SF6 makes them in punish counter state which can easily get them killed

>>280513933
Kiritsugu got his heart crushed by Kotomine and was instantly healed by Avalon, and Avalon enhanced healing isn't as far as good with them as theoretically would work with Saber

>>280513987
No, Kirei rolled one jobber Magecraft Teacher and under his orders sent his Hassans to die out.
Camelot proves 100 Faces can even hold his own against Knight Classes to disengage if needed.

>>280514018
only a few servants would pull out that amount of power and you're assuming knowing about Avalon beforehand and ignoring others things like Saber high-tier magic resistance, Endurance and Luck

>>280514019
Okay admittedly I didn't know the Zero feats. All the more because with Shirou it was always treated as more something like he'd be out of comission for a battle. It'd heal lethal wounds, but over the course of hours of a night. And Saber didn't seem to treat it as something as bullshit convenient when she got it back in the Fate route aside as a good shield.
I didn't know it instantly healed a goddamn heart of a non-user near instantly.

I can hardly think of a media franchise where the chasm between primaries and secondaries is wider than in Fate. Like, I can't really recognize anything past Hollow Ataraxia as real Fate and people who only know Fate from FGO and the anime adaptations love a thing that has absolutely nothing in common with the Fate that I grew to like all those years ago.

>>280514019
He didn't heal instantly, it takes several seconds before the regeneration get to the stage it stops him from dying

>Even Kiritsugu did not expect himself to be revived. He had already been prepared to die when Kirei neared him. In truth, Kiritsugu's heart and lungs had indeed been completely destroyed, and the best he could manage should have been a final struggle.
>However, seconds before his blood-deprived brain was about to die due to lack of oxygen, the heavy and uncontrollable injury on his body had healed completely by itself. Of course, Kiritsugu didn't use any healing magecraft. Nonetheless, Kiritsugu had no doubts concerning this shocking miracle. He immediately understood what was going on.

>>280514125
Oh okay that makes more sense. And he likely benefited from being under Time Accel or something like that.

>>280514016
Her mana burst fighting style is extremely cool and could be used for a lot of creative stuff, it's just a shame that it's always glossed over. Apoc made a better of showing of mana burst with Karna, which is kind of sad for Artoria. It could be used to contort your body in unanticipated ways or to gain leverage in unstable positions, as well as be used offensively.

>>280514091
Servants only have innate protection against non-magical attacks.
Their body is hardily any more durable than a flesh and blood creature without the appropriate ability or equipment.

And Noble Phantasms in general kills on a direct hit, so it is feasible for most combat servants.

Did she really avoid getting hit by Hrunting mid-air in Hollow Ataraxia because she rolled a high enough luck saving throw against it? Or what the fuck happened in that scene?

>>280514125
Again Avalon doesn't works the same with non-users, with Saber you need behead or totally crushing the brain. "you will spill no blood and take no wounds" literally in lore the magic sheath (it's only called avalon in fate) in the legends were have this healing properties is robbed because Arthur literally can't be killed in battle when he have it

>>280514226
Why do servants bleed if they are evidently not corporeal (since they can dematerialize in spirit form)? Ghosts have no business bleeding.

>>280514226
Anon saber has +A resistance against Magic and literally fought Dragons like Vortigern

>>280514232
Probably a luck check similar to Gae Bolg. Shirou notes Hrunting had:
>aimboot
>and was perfectly lined with her and Shirou himself in the trajectory
She dodged by a sheer miracle because overcoming the impossible was natural for her. It worked as slightly diverting Hrunting's path.
They do note even after getting further diverted by breaking Shirou's 4-layered Rho Aius it'd still curve back and kill them though if Archer was alive to keep aiming.

>>280514272
The Grail makes them a roughly compatible flesh host (even if they can still go ghost mode). Thats the point of the Class system, it doesnt aim to make a exact copy, just something reasonable

>>280514308
I said combat servants, magic resistance pretty much does nothing against non-magecraft attacks

>>280514342
But I thought they were immune to non-magical weapons exactly because they were not corporeal. Like if you tried to do a drive-by on them the bullets would just pass through them because they have no real body even if they can become tangible, as contradictory as that sounds.

>>280514365
Still you have to overcome the Endurace, her speed, the mana burst, her luck and the fact that in a NP clash you can overcome Excalibur

>>280514395
Technically it's more of a ''only magic affects magic'' situation but with mana. If you punch a servant it won't cause something like a black eye. The servant will still be pushed as a solid body should (Kuzuki after Medea died and without his enhancements scored a punch to EMIYA's face for example).
They also allude that there is a limit to that and something like a fall from a colossal height should be lethal if the servant has no means of flight or to reduce the impact.

>>280514406
Except Saber is already frametrapped as soon as she comes out of Avalon. She have no idea what goes on outside of Avalon so she is basically at ground zero of vaporization. Again, endurance barely does anything against even fucking swords

>>280514472
How about fire? Magical fire obviously works, but is non-magical fire different enough in character to not work because real fire is not conjured by mana?

>>280514486
She knows what is outside of Avalon anon

>>280514486
Saber still knows what is outside avalon, she takes notices of the distance between her and Gilgamesh only to rush him before he can react

>>280514540
No she doesn't, Avalon prevents all outside interactions.
She deliberate timed Avalon with Gilgamesh's EA because she knows what to expect when she pops out

Getting a bit offtopic to you guys' discussion on Avalon I think the END parameter accounts armor. They note Saber Alter's armor got heavier for example and this reduced her AGI but increased her END.
Likely the parameter wouldn't cover something like her helmetless face. And Artoria's armor did sustain a blow from Berserker in the Fate route before it broke to pieces because she didn't have enough Mana to repair it.
Likewise in Zero she scored a direct blow to Lancelot's head and the sword bounced off. If it was straight to the face it should be lethal.

Of course that's kind of case by case basis including if it factors an NP or not. Karna and Siegfried's END parameters don't seem to be including their respective Armor NPs in Apocrypha (specially because Karna's END is C, while in Siegfried's case they note the resulting E-ranked attacks that damage him are essentially harmless scratches). And we know Heracles is really fucking sturdy even when an attack bypasses God Hand and he is half-naked.

>>280514589
>No she doesn't, Avalon prevents all outside interactions.
that only means damage to the user anon... not that literally blinds saber from outside... she timed Avalon with EA to rush him when he his in shock because EA bounced...

>>280514232
I assumed it was her being able to dash sideways while flying thanks to her magic burst ability. Sounds simple enough for all the other BS things she typically does

>>280514586
No she doesn't, she knows the distance because she was CONSTANTLY gauging the number of steps to Gilgamesh for basically minutes, because she wants to be able to be in the prime position for a counter attack while Gilgamesh was still recovering from using Ea

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20111/

>>280514513
... not sure there.
At very least, no anecdote that I remember. Any time I remember Fire or Electricity affecting a servant or being treated as dangerous it was from some magical source like a creature or a fellow servant which means it was mana-infused.

>>280514646
That would throw her way off target, and it's not like Mana Burst is ever used as a Trickster dodge from Devil May Cry. The best my imagination can do without resorting to DnD mechanics is that she twisted her body around Hrunting mid-air in such a way that Hrunting had no time to correct its course.

>>280514644
Except she is transported to Avalon dimension

>>280514659
Yeah any of that implies that saber can see the outside world, only that she timed Avalon to take Gilgamesh by surprise not because she can't see outside

>>280514644
He sounds like an MHA cuck using Mirio's power as a basis for Avalon.

>>280514646
I doubt that cause she was in a situation she had to maximize speed to swiftly kill EMIYA.
There didn't seem to be room for her to take any sort of defensive or evasive action mid-jump.
It was like, the best display of how dangerous an Archer servant can be when he fights like a proper Archer. It was an all or nothing and a second wasted would be enough for him to get away and keep the aim.

>>280514738
Is not literally transported the descripcion literally says that Avalon "dissipates as tiny particles into the air, and shields the wielder from all interference"

>>280514659
Wow I remember she sliced him I didn't remember she casted fucking Excalibur point-blank.
Shouldn't that have blown away half the temple and most of Gil's body too?

Is Saber a biter, a scratcher, a screamer, or a pisser?

>>280514738
Read again the description of how Avalon works. Because Avalon doesn't literally transport Saber to Avalon the physical land, Avalon turns into particles of light, covers Saber and grants the space were she is the magic properties of Avalon which makes her unkillable and immune to the five true magics

How come the Excalibur blast from Hollow Ataraxia doesn't destroy anything physically? She shoots it directly at the ground but it is clearly shown that it doesn't obliterate half of Fuyuki since nothing happens to the skyscraper that she's standing in front of when she does it.

>>280514960
HA isn't a dream or that was kagetsu tohya

>>280514960
They note she actually tends to aim Excalibur over the ground or upwards to reduce the damage. I'm gonna guess a CG doesn't necessarily represent what happened in that one occasion
>>280514977
Kinda. It's a dream-like replication of the world. Most of the laws that would apply to reality work inside it as well. They are kinda vague in how that works, to the point they could bring Rin from outside and then she'd start participating in the loops for example. That is kind of beyond the scope of just a dream.

>>280514907
>>280514789

The VN itself stated Avalon:
>complete isolation
>repelled all light from Ea
>blocked off from all matter in this world. [keyword all matter]
>cannot be infringed by anything
>A complete world separate from this one that can never be reached.

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20111/
----
No one knows what kind of a divine mystery it is made from, but the sheath repels all light emitted by Ea.
No. It goes beyond the level of "defending".

It is complete isolation.
The barrier of fairyland that keeps out all filth from the outside lands. A complete world separate from this one that can never be reached.
As Saber is protected by the sheath of the holy sword, she is blocked off from all matter in this world.
The greatest protection in this world.
The greatest that cannot be infringed by anything not even by the five sorceries.
---

>>280514977
>>280515043
HA is a singularity. KT is a dream created by Len's cunny ass

>>280514960
By the way, HA Excaliblast is best Excaliblast. You just never get a sense for its sheer scale quite like you do there. Wish I had a gif of it saved or something.

>>280515069
Actually that helps me understand it perfectly. Kind of like Shimousa and the weird dream events in FGO.
I get confused since Rin's weird timeline overlapping actually happened in the real world as proven in the ending, so that muddied my perception

>>280515053
The extra material wrote by Nasu itself explained how Avalon works, but you're taking metaphors made to do a dramactic narration as facts of Avalon works, Avalon doesn't literally transported Saber to Avalon the physical land:
>Unleashing the true name of Avalon will deploy a Bound Field that provides the greatest defence. A Noble Phantasm that annuls the interference of True Magic; its existence is equivalent to True Magic. Fate/complete material III: World Material - The Servants of the Fifth Holy Grail War: Saber, p.020-021
>After unleashing its true name, Avalon would break into hundreds of shards and shield the wielder from all interference. Fate/side material: Encyclopedia: The Everdistant Utopia [Noble Phantasm], p.063
>Avalon, the Everdistant Utopia. The name of Excalibur’s sheathe, which also holds power as a Noble Phantasm. Aside from healing the user’s wounds and halting their aging, it also turns into a perfect fortress that protects against all physical interference when activated. Fate/complete material II: Character material - Weapons: Excalibur’s Sheathe, p.119
>After invoking its true name, Avalon dissipates as tiny particles into the air, and shields the wielder from all interference. No damage can be done to the wielder when a state of absolute defence is initiated. Even interference from the parallel world based on the Second Magic will be blocked. An “absolute defence” that can even repel the assault of True Magic, it is a True Magic in itself. World material - Theory of Magic - Magecraft: Effects on the Level of True Magic, p.049

>>280515053
Post the original japanese wordings

>>280515285
It's not necessary Avalon explained how Avalon work in "technical" way in the books of extra material that he wrote, and Avalon doesn't transports Saber to another world that just was metaphors that the anon probably took as a literal meaning

>>280515282
>>280515331
Except the lines emphasized properties that prevents any interactions from any outside forces in MULITPLE ways. Which means it is emphasizing its nature as a perfect defense with no loopholes, and the only way to achieve that is to not be able to be interacted by anything outside.

>>280515331
I know, but I want to debunk his ass on the all matter part.
Retard genuinely wants to downplay a Saber with Avalon (which barely appear in other works) with fucking blindness of all thing

>>280515142
Bazet and Caren both remember Avenger and Shirou himself vaguely recalls them both because of the space-time fuckery.

>>280515390
>>280515331
Anon, if light is able to reach past Avalon it means it is not a foolproof defense.

>>280515384
Yeah lines made in a novel in dramatic moment were the narration is full of metaphors and the technical explanations given by the author itself doesn't implies that Saber is transported literally to other world which is the key argument on that Avalon blinds her

>>280515416
By that logic, Shirou would have had problems breathing when he used Avalon, you moron.

>>280515416
>Anon, if light is able to reach past Avalon it means it is not a foolproof defense.
Anon, is literally magic your trying to applied physics logic to True Magic of all things that even in the Fate universe is stated that works in realm of miracle

>>280515504
You clearly don't know about all the shenanigans you enable if you allow even light to pass

Hell, Nasuverse battles is ALL about exploiting loopholes in rules, and tiny flaws that brings about defeat.

>>280515471
Also, if it did transport the user to Avalon, Shirou would instantly die due to the immense amount of magic there.

>>280515557
Again Avalon is true magic the realm of logic doesn't applies to true magic since the other knows True Magic are Anon, Avalon is a NP that is a True Magic by itself, the other two know True Magic are Parallel World Traveling and Time Travel.
Literally in the first 5hrs of Fate is explained that Magecraft has to follow some logical and physical rules meanwhile True Magic doesn't that why is called true magic

>>280515557
>You clearly don't know about all the shenanigans you enable if you allow even light to pass
There is a reason why true magic is separated from magecraft.
You can replicate magecraft with science, but true magic is fantasy magic bullshit that don't follow science's rules.

>>280515557
>You clearly don't know about all the shenanigans you enable if you allow even light to pass
You clearly don't know that True Magic in Nasuverse doesn't follow the same rules that Magecraft and Avalon is a True Magic by itself.
True Magic is literally the ability of doing Miracles. The logic of simple Magecraft doesn't apply to any of the True Magics why are you trying to apply it to a NP that is literally stated immune to the Five True Magics

>>280515557
That's because Magecraft in Nasuverse still has to follow physical and natural laws since Magecraft only can bend the physics laws a little to make natural phenomenon happen, True Magic doesn't, True Magic isn't tied to any physical or natural law that's why is called True Magic

>>280515649
>>280515620
Nasu already confirmed that True Magic is pretty much knowledge unknown. It does have rules of its own from the start, it doesn't mean people can't eventually naturally interact with it.
>Fate/complete material III: World material - Theory of Magic - Magecraft: "Magic" making the impossible possible, p.048
>True Magic. This is a different mystery than magery. Magi call the events that are unachievable by magery and science in that age True Magic. If that event could be achieved by time and resources, then no matter the difficulty, that event will not be seen as True Magic.
When the civilization of mankind was still young, all magery had been True Magic. But along with the advancement of science, the number of things that "could be done" by people had increased, and in exchange, True Magic diminished. The number of remaining "True Magics" in the modern era are extremely few, only 5. In "Fate/stay night", the achievement of one of these, the "Third True Magic", occupied the portion of the Grail War that could also be said to be its base.

>>280515731
>it doesn't mean people can't eventually naturally interact with it.
>If that event could be achieved by time and resources, then no matter the difficulty, that event will not be seen as True Magic.

>>280515824
That's exactly the point, and one of the reasons there are far fewer True Magic than in the past.

Think of it as the opposite of "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

>>280515731
Yeah, and still those True Magic doesn't follow the Physic and Natural laws as we know it so still the Argument made here >>280515557 still doesn't apply sense since:
1- a True Magic can't be replicated with our understanding of Physical and Natural Laws so the logic "the Light must pass to Sabe be able to see" doesn't apply
2- Avalon is a True Magic achieved by the Fairies since they created the Avalon and Excalibur so Human logic doesn't apply either since those being literally are living in land were the concept of death doesn't exist and were anyone able to reach Avalon becomes immortal as long they are there
So is literally possible for being that made it a Sheath that makes the user Immortal (in the sense that they can't die of old age) made a barrier that doesn't allow the light pass but still made the user able to see the battlefield

>>280515968
Except nowhere it is confirmed that Saber sees anything, while outside interference unable to enter is constantly reinforced.

>>280516020
By that logic, Shirou wouldn't be able to breath.
There is no single mention of that in the Fate Route if Avalon is truly an isolation barrier that follow the rule to the T instead of a miracle.

>>280516020
Because is outside interference could mean only the one that is harmful to the user

>>280516047
The np isn't a vacuum of space, it isn't the opposite of a black hole (white hole)

>>280516020
>>280516110
Except that they used the outside world filth so this could mean that only rejects something harmful to the user

>>280516153
The vn states:
>complete isolation
>blocked off from all matter in this world
>cannot be infringed by anything
>repelled all light from Ea
>A complete world separate from this one that can never be reached.

>>280516110
yeah, but it won't allow air to enter.
This isn't something you don't notice.

>>280516182
Also stated
>The barrier of fairyland that keeps out all filth from the outside lands.
And this:
>A complete world separate from this one that can never be reached
We know isn't true since the >>280515282 explained that didn't literally transported Saber to another world. You're keep saying that literally transported saber to Avalon when it was debunked by three different entries in the Extra Materials

>>280516182
>all matter in this world
You know that Light isn't matter do you?

>the density of Magical Energy in Avalon is too strong for a human to handle. He thought it should not be called a paradise, but it could be better utilized as a weapon instead. He compares the place to a vacuum, simply breathing in it is enough to end up dead. In one breath a human of the current age would burst from inside out.
Shirou would have fucking died if Avalon NP truly did transport him to Avalon.

>>280516271
E=mc^2

>>280516278
Isn't shirou already attuned to the sheathe especially considering it changed his origin?

>>280516239
The text literally stated that it shield the wielder from all interference, including parallel world. You know what that's called? being in a separate dimension.

>>280516182
Avalon didn't transport saber to another world since Shirou didn't instantly died when he used it since the Magical Energy in Avalon would be enough to kill any human

Is older Artoria an improvement or not?

>>280516351
The NP still puts the user in a separate dimension, considering it prevents all interference including other dimensions.

>>280516316
Being attuned to the sheath doesn't prevent the absurd amount of magical energy ballooning up your body.

How many of you have not read the lb6?
Because that's the best thing nasu has ever written

>>280516349
1-Parallel World is also one name of the Second Magic used by Zelretch
2- The Text can said anything but that was debunked later by Nasu in the Extra worlds like was already stated here >>280515282, so if Nasu said that didn't transport the user you interpretation is meaningless
3-It's also stated that Avalon Magical Energy would fucking kill any human that reaches so didn't transported Saber since didn't kill Shirou when he used it

>>280516382
i like how rin is softly coming on to her in this doujin
she should've joined in for old time's sake

>>280516422
found it alright.

>>280516432
I honestly don't know why you even bother anymore when the retard is hell-bent on that one dramatic narrative moment and ignore all the other official descriptions of how Avalon work.

>>280516411
If simply puts the user in another dimension wouldn't be immune to Second Magic since Second Magic whole thing is literally travel among parallel world and dimension but still is immune to it

>>280516382
God no, at least not that. Here's yet another fanart better than official design. Tits maybe still too big but not hilariously so.

>>280516382
Only if her toes get better too.

You must have a High IQ to use Assassin and Caster your servant only low IQ Magi use class like Archer, Saber, Lancer, Rider or Berserker

>>280516555
what censoring sex gets you
like, avenger succing caren was way more awkward than him raping her by magnitudes

>>280516560
Caster does all the thinking for you though.

>>280516519
Just because can travel to other dimensions doesn't mean you can access all dimensions

>>280516382
Depends on the point of view. FGO brings that different aged versions of the same servants exist under a tradeoff. Younger servants may wield less power, but the difference in age influences their instincts, creativity and the like.
Both Lancers seem to be better brute servants than their Saber counterparts as they get extra boost to Mana and Luck from the Farthest Ends via Rhongomyniad. And through her past, Rhongomyniad tends to finish the job Excalibur fails (they both have seals but Merlin alludes that Rhongomyniad is more convenient), I think they lost some versatility in the process though.
Lancer Alter has the highest Mana Burst, but is an overall colder, nearly unfeeling person person as if somewhat hollow, her Instincts are likely dulled even more than Saber Alter. Normal Lancer has some better all-around stats with a bunch of As but even she, that isn't tainted, has a lower luck at C. So she'd temporarily reach Saber's Luck via the blessing, meaning she might get herself in a worse situation against sure-kill and aimboot attacks that Saber could deal with.

>>280483107 (OP)
We love the king of knights here

>>280516572
ironically, I minded the vampire sucking the least out of all the alt-H scenes. you got to see Avenger take form instead of a dumb shadow creature

>>280516422
everything Nasu writes is good
yes, even Last Encore

Shirou 2 inches pecker

>>280516616
and a High IQ persons knows when to lead and when to follow

>>280516683
For the matter, in my personal opinion I think vanilla Artoria is the overall safest version.
Saber Alter's power boost comes with a price. It isn't as big of an issue since she can still gauge proper use of her explosive power per Shinjuku and gauge proper situations in spite of dulled Instincts, but that loss of Luck can be nasty if you face someone like Cu Chulain.
Lancer Alter seems somewhat more creative in what she can and should do (like protecting Mordred and delivering the Golden Hind), but also shares the aforementioned problems.
Normal Lancer should about a sidegrade to Normal Artoria, but then it'd be up in the air to which version you'd pick. I'd consider the better Luck and MR as better tools to have to face the unexpected compared to the convenience of Rhongomyniad.

By personal opinion though I'd pick Lancer Alter and trust our brains to figure what to do in spite of the downsides though.

>>280516683
>>280516842
rape
need to rape
>>280516725
but that's angra's other form

>>280514119
Any fandom of books with adaptations
Capeshit comics vs movies
A lot of things, the main entry barrier to the VN is that it's a VN

>>280516842
To bad that you were Magic Nuked by my Castoria before you could summon

>>280516874
Well can't win them all

>>280516872
I only know fate lore thanks to the Unlimited Code games

>>280516890
jesus, i want to rape all the artorias

>>280516915
Gilgamesh....

>>280516915
Takeuchi...

>>280514119
I unironically haven't watched Ufotable adaptation.
Only DEEN and the VN.

>>280516842
That image is cursed. It looks like some shortstack goblin with meme proportions had its head cut off, and a normal human being is leaning over the body. The hand looks like it belongs to the normal human, but then that means it's carressing the dead body, which also has no arms.

>>280516925
>>280516939
Gilgamesh is Takeuchi self-insert loving and wanting to have Artoria but knowing that she is not real so he will never have her

>>280512249
Foreigners are strong but only if they manage to bring the Outer Gods into our world, ergo Imaginary Scramble.

>>280516951
Bro those are too many words. I’m seeing big tits and I’m seeing fidgety fingers playing with her hair and that’s enough for an image to be sex for me.

>>280516967
Reminder that Takeuchi said he won't marry Saber because he thinks of her as something that is beautiful, but better off unattainable.
So, he would rather marry Mash instead.
Now, you remember the Gilgamesh doujin with Mash.

>>280517037
god, that was so hot

>>280517037
We all had Mash, but only Ritsuka married her

>>280517037
lol

>>280516734
>everything Nasu writes is good
Nasu is unironically a hack

>>280517199
Nasu is unironically the resurrection of Shakespeare

>>280514640
Salter really is just Saber but worse in every way, huh

>>280517248
she had the opportunity to be an interesting character like avenger is to shirou but she's just a plot device and a meme

>>280517248
>>280517262
Her best writing was in Unlimited Codes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fofYHVR25e8
>HF Salter
lol, I want to die. Why do I follow Sakura's orders? Well, there would be no plot otherwise, and I'd kill you who's trying to kill me, which I want... Wait a minute.
>UC Salter
I understand. Even though I was a hero, they saw me as a villain. A true hero is someone who tramples over others. That is the true form of Angra Mainyu. Yes... Let's fulfill his wish and yours.

i prefer jannu

>>280516734
What about OC3?

>>280502012
>He is also a preferred dual wielder.
Mana inefficiency be damned.

>>280517400
>>280517262
I was just referring to stats. Salter has ok characterization in FGO as an angsty mean bitch version of Saber anyway

>>280515975
Is pako GAR?

>>280517482
What the fuck am I looking at here?

>>280517228
>good novelist but terrible poet and playwright
Seems kinda backwards.

>>280517248
Not really. She trades some things for others. I think since she is more of a realist helps her more. In Shinjuku in spite of the worse Instinct she was more observant and opted to gather more information first than acting. She was brutal and did suggest just nuking places out but it wasn’t like she was a Berserker and dropped those when they were ruled out. In fact I think this is what sets her apart from one. It’s like she knew she doesn’t have “brakes” so she preferred to act around that. When she sees an elusive opponent faster than her (Rider and Assassin of Shinjuku) while she did battle, she could gauge they were troublesome to keep up and needed to strategize accordingly. Her downsides are laid bare but she isn’t blind to them.
I think this actually gives her a huge edge over her normal version. In the VN and Zero whenever Artoria’s Instinct went of and failed her it usually was because she misinterpreted it (Diarmuid strategy, Medea’s hidden dragon tooth soldier. She got the warning but assumed it referred to the wrong thing). Alter is more sluggish but that makes her more cautious
>>280517400
I have this.

>>280517498
Oh. Well she has A++ in mana there. Superficially it looks like the total sum is worse but when you consider all her strength is dependant on Mana Burst, that is essentially what decides her actual power.

>>280517602
Saber's Valor Form. It was hinted at in that one scene in the DEEN series.

>>280517602
Peak

>>280498102
>>280517248
>>280517400
>>280517498
>salter

>>280517998
I'm sorry, anon. Do you prefer to refer them as such?
>Artoria Pendragon (Saber), Artoria Pendragon (Alter), Artoria Pendragon (Lily), Artoria Pendragon (Santa Alter), Artoria Pendragon (Ruler), Artoria Pendragon (Lancer), Artoria Pendragon (Lancer Alter), Artoria Pendragon (Archer), Artoria Pendragon (Caster), Artoria Pendragon (Lion King), Auroria Pendragon (Aesc the Everlasting), Auroria Pendragon (Aesc the Faraway), Artoria Pendragon (Beast), Mysterious Heroine X, Mysterious Heroine X Alter, Mysterious Heroine XX, Mysterious Idol X Alter, Artoria Pendragon (Prototype).

>>280518112
>referring to the mobile game characters at all
>not just calling them Saber X, Y, or Z anyway regardless of class

DDDbros...it's totally over. For real this tame.
FGO did it again.

>>280519507
should have realized this when he is dropping Mahoyo spoilers in FGO.

>>280483107 (OP)
>And while Excalibur is wanked is ''the strongest Holy Sword'' it doesn't have many deeds of note

Oh the lore of Excalibur is larger than what we know. If you played the Extella, you can see it was once used to stop a giant Altera from destorying civilization. As for who weild it then.... we don't know.

>>280519878
>Extella
This game didn't fucked up all the "The original is stronger that any iteration" after they said that Excalibur was made out the Sword of Mars but also is stronger against extraterrestrial things so made it stronger that Sword of Mars?

>>280519878
>>280519945
>after they said that Excalibur was made out the Sword of Mars

No they never said that. Excalibur was made by the planet out of humanking wishes to protect the planet from external threats.

Sword of Mars was from the war god Mars. That was Altera's sword.

Don't confuse Altera with Artoria.

>>280498849
>one of the many servants with the Sakurai curse
Even the ones that initially escaped it eventually fell prey. Serenity used to be super popular, even if primarily for obvious reasons.
Then her interlude happened. Now she barely gets any attention, be it in fan art or FGO itself. Liking any Sakurai Servants ultimately amounts to hoping a different writer decides to actually make good use of them someday.

>>280517408
Joan of Arc arguably the greatest female general in history and she's just a love interest pain

>>280497983
You don't deserve nice things lol

>>280483107 (OP)
In a conflict, any character can win or lose depending on the writer's goals. Chimping about power level is the biggest waste of time imaginable, and betrays a fundamental ignorance of narrative technique.

>>280516382
That design would look fine if they toned down her tits.

>>280516439
What doujin is that? That Rin doesn't look half bad.

>>280516382
...w-what happens after the last panel?

400+ replies and still no one arguing about Gil's defeats not counting bcs he wasn't serious.
What gives?

>>280522057
Isn’t that basically natural by this point?

>>280494962
Anon Nero literally has a skill that says she can do whatever the fuck she wants. This isnt a "hurr durr last encore is dumb" meme moment. When her statsheet was out in OG Extra people KNEW it was a skill that would cause some bullshit waiting to happen

>>280483107 (OP)
Shes a great Saber you just have to have good judgement and skills. Definitely not as flashy as newer servants but she does have enough skill to come out on top of practically any Servant encounter.

All her bad showings are due to either plot(Excalibur blast wouldve smeared Diarmuid but Kiritsugu made her pull back) and particularly in the case of Shirou, she was getting an inadequate mana supply. When Rin and Sakura had her she was flat out manhandling any of the remaining cast that came at her.

>>280522057
Excalibur at max power still wins over Gilgamesh going serious so it's irrelevant

>Artoria
It's Arturia.

>>280490507
No. That hobo just had A tier prana circuits and control. Artoria just jobs to martial artitsts with high cultivation.

>>280516422
Total faerie death.

Actually it's Arthur

>>280516422
Wish Tristan participated more but aside that it’s one of my favorite chapters. I do wish we get more on the Panhuman Round Table though.
Nasu keeps building AoG Panhuman Britain as an era of rampaging gigantic monsters. I wish we actually got to see it. LB6 strayed off too much.

Saber really has bad luck with Casters, to the point I'd say they are her Achilles heel. Merlin, Morgan, Gilles, Medea- everyone has done something extremely inappropriate to her.

>>280523795
sexual humiliation is kino

>>280522596
The ones she gets fooled in spite of her Instinct (specially that Bad End she gets Rule Broken by allowing her to fight alone as she confidently wished) are on her but right on the rest.
I don’t think it’s an issue on the skill itself but on Artoria’s line of reasoning. Mordred kept mashing hers but got better results either because she didn’t bother to question it or stopped to think what was going on. Like:
>Artoria’s Instinct triggers against Medea. She assumes it’s some magecraft and that her MR can cover it. She is half right; the magecraft were the Skellies and although they weren’t something MR covers, singularly they aren’t an issue. Medea’s placement of them was crucial
>she used Instinct to divine Diarmuid’s moves, correctfully predicting the pierce Diarmuid deal. She didn’t know his spear bypassed her armor.
>Mordred’s Instinct triggers against Semiramis. Mordred doesn’t remotely knows Semiramis intended to drug her master and steals his Command Spells. She just knows witches are dangerous and you should stay away from them because of her own mother (Morgan).
>when Mordred fights Sieg(fried) she doesn’t know anything that was going on and just accepted it but along the way kept dissecting what was happening from the little bits she was getting (the armor could be powered through, the transformation was limited, Sieg made mistakes but the rate was one he’d best her by the 3rd transformation etc.).
In a way experience is what matters the most. Instinct doesn’t tell you how creative an enemy can be. Shirou reasoned that Caster would only go on offense if she has a surefire way to best Saber which Artoria didn’t consider, Mordred would skip the justifications and knows a Witch going on the offensive is bad news.

>>280517998
Do you prefer Kuro Saber? That's how I typically call all the alters (Dark Saber, Dark Berserker, Dark Sakura, Dark Shirou... lol) but something tells me you'll just call me a LARPing oldfag instead

>>280525694
>Dark Shirou
From Detroit?

>>280525795
predating that

>>280525915
What is it with Shirou and dark skin?
The purest Shirou is the whitest of them all?

>>280525944
I can defend Archer and Avenger cause
>Archer has a permanent tan that stems from his rebirth as a counter-guardian, probably cause Shirou himself got a tan from his seigi adventures
>Angra changes people's skin tone, ie. Dark Sakura who is deathly pale. Avenger is darker than even Archer prolly cause of his delinquent personality being a fit for it in Takeuchi's eyes, and the villager whom became the sacrifice possibly having dark-ish skin as well
I really have no clue why gangsta Shirou looks the way he does. It's a retarded design anyway

>>280525944
Play Fate/hollow ataraxia and you'll find out.

They did announce the english release of it very recently. Comes out later this year.
Or you can just pirate the fan translation...

>>280526198
After I finish OG Tsukihime first.
I already have the pirated version on my pc, it just that I have balance between it, learning japanese, and drawing swords.

>>280526343
>drawing swords

>>280526105
Symbolic from really overusing magic after his life went to shit from having to murder Taiga, heavily implied he comes from an EXTRA-like timeline so technically an Alter of Nameless than EMIYA.
Kiara’s cult widespread saving people, Taiga became one of the cultists as one of the saved and Shirou went to murder Kiara but like the many cultists that stood his way Taiga was there. As a final fuck you when he got to Kiara to make her pay she committed suicide anyway cheating him from even vengeance.
He goes insane and doubles down on his purpose murdering people to save people nonstop maximizing efficiency by circumventing the Sword restriction with gunblades.
The energy lines that appear in later ascensions are to represent kisungi, a practice that japanese mold back what is once broken which symbolize he has long since broken down but keeps going nonetheless.

Yeah, it’s retarded to make him look like a gangster nigga, but he got a pretty developed reason for that.

>>280526198
a world where avenger doesn't rape caren's cunny is an unjust one

>>280526105
>>280526466
By the way while that’s implied on the mats in the Seraph manga adaptation it’s explicitly shown Taiga was there and Shirou shot her in self-defense when she pointed a gun at him with full intent to kill.

How can she say such a thing without any guilt?

>>280526551
>NTR

>>280526551
>>280526597
how can you cuck yourself?

>>280526551
>>280526597
Flashback to HA when Archer ate from Shirou and Saber's bento and shat on his cooking skills for being incomplete
>"I won't cook myself. If I did, I'd be taking away the only thing you're good at. You don't want that happening, right?"

>>280526611

>>280526611
>implying Shirou wouldn't hate that even more
Remember Archer's back scene in HF.

>>280526659
he needs to get into another pointless conversation with the track team again

>>280526659
>I'd be taking away the only thing you're good at
and changing Saber's heart.

>>280526744
Archer might genuinely be worse than Shirou at finding excuses, if it matters

>>280526846
>Cuteness is justice!
>What the fuck are you talking about, hero?
>Your self-depreciation makes your heroism even more admirable and yourself more interesting.

>>280526846
He was right.

>>280516382
I like big boobs so yes
>>280522016
He walked her home gently for mana transfer

Shirou’s cumshot is literally able to power Caliburn once (while Saber was metabolizing the mana) and Excalibur at least twice in the Fate route.
Shouldn’t this mean the issue with most high drain servants be solved if a Master fucked them every night? I know we can’t assume everyone is a mage, but game protagonists like Hakuno and Guda are meant to be the average of the average of normal people and Case Files seem to imply people with Magic Circuits is more common than it seems (with people like Shinji that they get atrophied being more of a rarity in the opposite side of the spectrum from Rin). Shirou’s being exceptionally bad because it’s specced for Swords.
It would make sense the cumshots of an average person would charge a servant at least as much as Shirou’s charged Artoria.

i havent watched fsn deen yet because most people said to avoid it like the plague, so basically i've gone straight with the vn back then
now im trying to go back to read FHA for the first time and decided to watch deen fsn to refresh my memories, it honestly feels nostalgic for some reason

>>280528756
>it honestly feels nostalgic for some reason
I honestly rewatch DEEN more than Ufotable for this reason.

>>280526105
Avenger is from Iran, so yeah, of course he would be pretty brown by japanese and western standards.

>>280528921
younger me would probably hate watching deen stay night because of the art style but after a decade, i start to appreciate older artworks even, tsukihime-era takeuchi

>>280529390
Deen Rin was the greatest Rin.

>>280498190
i wonder if they'll animate case files shirou, would he have suwabe's voice?

>/a/ has better Fate threads than /v/
How come?

>>280529587
That sword looks like a bootleg buttplug for elephants or dinosaurs.

>>280529588
/a/ was always a fate board

soul...

>>280497435
That wasn't her. That was Excalibur doing all the heavy lifting.

>>280529588
You haven't seen the wormfag yet.

>>280495795
I wonder if the anime will reach a third episode

Fate is like, the only serious/semi believable franchise where I can see Shirou hooking up with all three girls simultaneously and them being okay with it. The girls (and the guy obviously) are that top tier.

>>280530141
Saber and Rin are fine sharing, as evidenced by Sunny Day, but Sakura would never share. She's the "if I can't have all of you, I don't want any of you" type.

>>280529588
I don’t have much against FGO specially since a lot of shafted servants get to shine there but it makes sense people whose entry is from there wouldn’t have a proper grasp at servants as people that started from the VN or an anime adaptation of it and Zero.
The Apo cast that dies early in particular benefited a lot for example.

>>280530203
nta but surprisingly it made sieg of all characters, likeable

I like not!Alexander he's a bro.

>>280530196
Sakura is fine with sharing as long as she is on top of the pecking order. She actively encourages Shirou to socialize more with Medusa and makes him fuck her when she becomes vulnerable by the Breaker Gorgon being reflected. At a few points in HA she misunderstands he is dating and fucking other girls for example and she is either sad or competitive than getting pissed.
It’s like she accepts Shirou is a CHAD that attracts women.

>>280528756
For a while, people had a hate boner for DEEN due to Zero and UBW eclipsing it in terms of relevance. Now that the HF movies have come out and 00s nostalgia is in full swing, it's getting reappraised
DEEN SN on its own is a fun and campy urban fantasy story with consistently middling animation quality, great art direction, an all-star voice cast in the making and an amazing soundtrack. It's just that Stay Night as a VN is considered echelons above "campy urban fantasy" - some would even call it a MODERN EPIC. The anime just doesn't have the X factor the VN did to propel itself past being "just a good anime for its time", nor does it have the Ufo flair to hide the fact the plot & characters are butchered at parts.
VN adaptations are complimentary to the originals 9/10 and Fate is no exception
>>280529390
>>280529457
I rabu the "DEEN look". Certainly nowhere near as good as Takeuchi's old art, but it tries to be faithful to it. After seeing so much fanart take after Ufotable's character designs and visuals, having Fate animation be the closest it's going to get to the look of the OG OPs made in 2003 is refreshing, albeit in a twisted way.

>>280529588
/v/'s threads are filled with gachafags and anime casuals, but they don't have anywhere near as much waifufagging and schizoposting as /a/. As long as they are talking about FSN they are usually better than /a/'s threads. I blame /a/'s shonen generals for everything that has happened to this board.

>>280530275
It feels like Higashide accepted all the criticism and strived to fix his mistakes. In some interviews he also admits that on his early FGO chapters as well. Most of the times he reused a character from there he tries to display what they didn’t then.

>>280530364
it reminds me of the time in the 2010s when i was watching anime on my shitty laptop on a sunny day
very comfy, even sakura's voice is still very moe/cutesy type compared in the present

Does anyone have that Webm/gif where Saber spins around while showing her every appearance

You can have every excuse under the sun but you can't make me take her seriously when she loses to everyone including a high school teacher with wobbly fists.
>b-but he was buffed!

I present to you Ultraknight, the strongest and most powerful being in the galaxy. Ultraknight is nigh unstoppable by anyone on earth
>loses
>loses
>loses
>hello kitty hits a whip naenae dab but ultramagician buffs it and nearly kills ultraknight
>ultraknight goes dark mode
>loses to a normal human
People will call this good writing

>>280530639
you forgot your image

>>280530670
Which one, ultraknight being bent over and molested?

>>280530573
It's QUALITY, but it's surprisingly consistent at being QUALITY. Its stays at a 5/10 rather than taking a huge dump midway thru like a lot of seasonal stuff today does. It's also got a decent amount of creative liberties in its locales that manage to make it stand out compared to the VN, like the church being dark and moody instead of eerily lit, or Archer being summoned while the Tohsaka house is lights out.
The [Doki] release most people are familiar with also has an oddly suitable lack of clarity to its visuals compared to other ones. A slight bit of desaturation, some softness to the linework, and a weird bit of letterboxing that serves to alleviate the image cutoff that other BD rips suffer from. It's like those elaborate CRT filters people put on vidya nowadays, but it was there from the start to give it that "summer break shitty laptop viewing experience" look you mention

>>280530623

>>280531223
Thanks anon not the one I meant but I will take it.

>>280530639
>>280530731
it's hot

>>280531256
My saber collection has grown so vast that I have long since forgotten its contents.

>>280531332
That's the one thanks.

>>280530639

>>280530998
>The [Doki] release most people are familiar with also has an oddly suitable lack of clarity to its visuals compared to other ones.
oh
first time ive heard about this issue, how different is it compared to other bd releases?

As many others have pointed out, she’s been gimped by garbage masters. Kigurutsu did his best to not empower or work with her at all, and Shirou was simply a shitter who didn’t have the qualifications to even join the war but the Grail or whatever said lol get in faggot. Kigurutsu could have been a strong master if he wanted to, but Shirou was just TRASH. He was so bad that Saber couldn’t even do basic shit all other servants could do. Basically the Grail simply wouldn’t let her be strong. If Shirou wasn’t the protagonist of a porn game he’d be utterly fucked no better off than Giles’ rando master.

>>280531454
Tenrai-Sensei's release features sharper contrast, more pronounced yellows and greens, and what seems to be slight horizontal stretching and a bit of the top and bottom parts of the video cropped out. Fansubs vs. BD dub subs aside, you can see the differences when looking at stuff like shading and hair. It almost seems like a sharpening filter has been added to the image, like you'd see from a flatscreen TV in the early 2010s. DEEN's been rereleased quite a few times in BD form so it's possible for it to stem from the source itself being altered rather than from the fangroup adjusting the way it looks

>>280531969
Please post the "naked Saber standing by the door of the bathroom" shot for more accurate comparison, if you would be so kind.

>>280532400
If you tell me which episode it's in, I'll catbox it. Promise!

>>280531969
interesting
guess i should try that release but i also kinda dig the "nostalgia" filter with doki

>>280532531
nta but it's ep 10, 17:50 mark

>>280532531
>If you tell me which episode it's in
Fuck, I don't have the show on my computer right now...it's like, somewhere around the 70 percent mark, I think?
>I'll catbox it. Promise!
It doesn't have any real nudity, it should be fine to post on this board.

>>280531617
>Kigurutsu did his best to not empower or work with her at all
Unironically what the fuck was his problem?

>>280516422
Morgan is my wife.

>>280483215
Hobos with sticks are strong
Do not underestimate them

>>280532931
>>280532883
>>280532531
>>280532400
Guess we're not getting any royal butt to finish this thread on a good note, huh...it was a damn good thread either way. Thanks, guys.

>>280532883
>>280532931
>>280533867
CHOTTO MATTE
I JUST FINISHED THE COMPOSITE PICS
https://files.catbox.moe/ibankg.png

>>280534107
left looks kinda bigger

>>280534107
BASED

>>280534631
flat ass whore

>>280534631
glad we had a good full Fate thread for once