shots fucking fired

UGHHHH IM OLD AND I HATE EVERYTHING MUH BONES ACK-!

>>280551878
kek this
Old fucks

>>280551741 (OP)
He's right
SnK was only good up because of its first couple episodes/chapters, the rest was trash. I don't know how people kept watching after season 1 ended.

>>280551741 (OP)
><attack on titan is bad because we can't sell toys after the series ended!
japan moment

>>280551934
Japan would be so much better once all their boomers die off

I have no stake in whether he has a valid point or not, but has there ever been an editor that hasn't been a complete and utter leech toward writers? The day these self-important grifters get phased out by AI completely is the day the entertainment industry starts healing.

>>280551741 (OP)
https://soranews24.com/2013/12/03/gundam-creator-has-harsh-words-for-manga-and-anime-hit-attack-on-titan/
I kneel boomers...

>>280552011
>has there ever been an editor that hasn't been a complete and utter leech toward writers?
Most of them, specifically the ones that you never hear about.

>>280551741 (OP)
SnK is shit but this editor needs to get over himself. Modern DB is the blandest battle shonen trash that constantly rehashes the worst parts of itself with different colors. Its sales and long term appeal show how low WSJ's standards are. The most infuriating thing is that neither the nipponese suits nor consumers understand why SnK is shit. It had a chance to be truly great, to establish itself as one of the greatest stories ever told in an shonen manga.

>>280552088
And Tomino was right again

>>280552088
>>280552364
>wahhh its heckin' grotesque
Nah he's just a pussy.

>>280551878
But he is right though. AOT lost mainstream appeal long time ago. Only weirdo fujos, trannies and like minded people still care about it after ending.
>>280552011
Many editors tard wrangle authors out of their worst instincts and you never really hear from them.

>>280552011
all the goodshit in Naruto come from the editor

>>280552011
It's such a tough thing because a good editor will bring out the best in a mangaka but a shit editor will ruin one, even if the mangaka is good.

But I do agree most of them are fucking useless and contribute very little to a manga's success, if they're not actively tripping it over and over again.

Nihei Tsutomu's editor when he was drawing BLAME! was fucking dogshit.

>>280551741 (OP)
it was always normalfag trash and the tourists it brought here killed the board

>>280551934
The toys do sell but the most popular ones are Annie, Reiner and Zeke in their titan forms, not Eren.

>>280552011
Fist of the North Star was mostly Tetsuo Hara's editor idea. Buronson was brought later

>>280551741 (OP)
>already forgotten
He was right.

>>280551920
>SnK was only good up because of its first couple episodes/chapters,
The anime's direction and music did a lot to carry the dogshit that was AoT's early chapters.

>>280552811
You retards seethe about it weekly.

>>280551878
>>280551914
>>280551961
Cope and seethe zoomer, the boomers you despise so much are the ones that shaped up Japan, they worked in the golden era of anime/manga before it was overtaken by globohomo

>>280552858
I thought McArthur administration shaped up Japan

>>280551920
SnK was just another mediocre trend-chasing zombie series at the very beginning, and then it went to shit beyond repair the moment Eren became a titan.
I will never understand the stunned disbelief people had at how bad the ending was, as if it wasn't foreshadowed by how bad the rest of the story had already been.

>>280551934
I don't think Torishima would mean it like that
like he's advocated that berserk needed to end a long time ago

>>280552855
long term seething is not long term appeal, dumbass

>>280552972
>long term appeal or sales
>dragon ball editor
that is the only way dragon ball has managed to remain relevant for decades
he can't be talking about anything else

Of course it doesnt sell, people now know it got the most retarded lame ending ever. No point to waste time or money on it.

>>280552991
Dragon Ball is dying because of how shit it's getting with Doo Doo Daipa and the shitty robot cards killing the arcade game over the years of established Heroee lore that manchildren loved.

>>280552991
it did end in 1995

>>280553031
Daima was good. It's Super that's killing the franchise.

>>280552450
Anon, normalfags are 90% weirdo fujos, trannies and like minded people

he's kinda right tho titan toys would sell like GANGBUSTERS. they are literally flesh mechs

>>280552011
>but has there ever been an editor that hasn't been a complete and utter leech toward writers?
Uh, yeah? Most of them. You're only hearing about the bad ones.

>>280553130
The Revoltechs are popular, and Kaiyodo just teased a giant sofubi of Bertholdt properly scaled to the other shifters. I also saw a colored Gaillard prototype.

>>280553016
The manga sales had already been declining since volume 17. Normalfags didn't give two shits about the basement and hated the poorly-executed genre change to political drama. All the ending did was make them stop talking about the series at all and eventually forget it ever existed.

>>280551741 (OP)
>I don't like this series because it can't be remade and regurgitated endlessly like Dragon Ball
It's not like Dragon Ball had a real story, so what's wrong with a story starting and ending? But of course the axe-lord of jump would have this opinion, because to him either a series will not profitable and get axed, or it will be super popular and they won't ever allow the author to stop doing it.

Fairy Tail guy has Naruto, Bleach and One Piece beat out in that regard since he has several popular shounenshit behind him.

>>280552088
>srijitra mahapatra
saaaaaaaar

>>280553115
>Anon, normalfags are 90% weirdo fujos, trannies and like minded people

>>280552088
makes sense, rumbling is a school shooter fantasy.

>dragon balls in your mouth
stopped reading there

>>280551741 (OP)
He’s right.
Not only is AoT insipid normieshit, it also has a really disgusting message.
>if you kill your enemies they win, just let your people get genocided, or else your childhood friend will murder you and cuck you.
Jewslop.

>>280552361
I still think dragon ball and dbz are timeless. Modern dragon ball makes a lot of noise but lacks long-term appeal.

>>280551741 (OP)
He was right
I'd also add that it has no long-lasting impact at all
Say whatever you want about Dragon Ball, but that shit inspires millions of boys everyday

>>280553430
Ironic you say that because the last arc paints the Eldians as unambiguously the bad guys who caused the problem. Marley is justified in hating people who spent 2000 years fucking them over.

>>280553489
>yes goy, you must be exterminated because your ancestors did a heckin colonization long before you were even born
Nice try, rabbi.

>>280553489
The schizos who said ARBZ should have been revealed to be the true protags post-basement actually did have a point.

>>280553508
I didn't want to outright say it, but the Eldians are the jews in this scenario.

>>280553551
>He didn’t look further than the armbands
70-IQ normie spotted.
The Eldians all have German names, German architecture, many of them are blonde and blue-eyed, and they are a highly martial culture.
Which part of that sounds jewish? Meanwhile Marley is full of swarthy people and enforces generational guilt on the descendants of a formerly great civilization, and use zogbots to fight in their stead.

>complexity is bad
>mangakas should emulate Tom and Jerry

This mindset is literally what's keeping manga from earning the respect of great novels.

>>280553701
Good. I don’t want manga to attract even more western attention than it already has. The last few years have already seen countless examples of knee bending to satisfy the pretentious, eternally triggered redditors. I wish normalfaggotroons would once again see otaku culture as nerd shit and leave it alone.

>>280551741 (OP)
I mean Tomino also called it out, to think those old farts were right with AOT having such a shit ending.

>>280553782
The seal's been broken anon. This is our world now as much as I agree.

>>280553782
The bad news is, nerd shit itself as a category has become an acceptable mainstream pastime. And that's not to mention a subsegment of nerds who think mainstream acceptance means they're finally getting validated, and thus turn their hobbies into their entire lives and public persona. This isn't just limited to otaku shit.

>>280553701
>complexity is bad
Yes, actually, the Japanese hate complex stories, I have spoken with multiple japanese people about some shows and how they're more popular overseas over in Japan, they frequently say that they aren't popular because they're: hard to follow stories.

>>280551934
They're literally selling more toys than they ever did at the height of its popularity. What the fuck are you on about?

>>280553842
This.

>>280553963
I love Annie so much

>>280553056
Divers machines already scrapped, Daipafags lost

>>280553842
Tomino called it out way before AoT ended though

>>280551878
I'm a zoomer and I say AoT is fucking garbage

>>280554090
Yeah, that's what I meant, to think he had the foresight to read it and thinking: Yeah, this is gonna end like shit.

>>280554090
That actually says the exact reverse of what you think it does. Tomino calling it out way before it ended means even out of touch boomers can easily predict what it will end up being.

>>280553995
Armin won

>>280551741 (OP)
>It NEEEEEEEEEEEDS to exist forever as insipid medicore slop to milk as much money as possible
Imagine the golden age of anime we would have if every shounen author died of cancer tomorrow.

>>280554129
why don't they use their amazing predictive powers for something useful

>>280551741 (OP)
If the story was actually cared for this old fuck wouldn't say that. But since everyone who was there the day 139 dropped knows how fucking bad things were. It's such a widespread disappointment pairing with Crappas Rotoscopin' shit fest of an adaptation ending. Only people who like it are just as bad as CSM2 enjoyers. Further fueling slop to be praised and passed down.

btw the highest peaks of 4chan is
>ep 1 of attack on titan anime
>final chapter of the manga

>>280554249
/a/*

>>280554249
Pretty sure ukraine tops that

>>280551741 (OP)
>If it can't be milked for 300 years then it means nothing
Torishima and the fags who agree with him are into salesfaggotry and hangs out in oricon threads to see numbers go up

>>280553701
>>mangakas should emulate one of the best cartoons ever
there is a reason why T&J is one of the best anime in japan

>>280552011
Torishima is the only one who can tard wrangling Toriyama

>>280552011
good morning sars

>>280551878
>UGHHHH IM OLD
AoT was created 16 years ago so it's also pretty old

>>280554380
old... good?

>>280552778
>are Annie, Reiner and Zeke in their titan forms,
I wonder why

>>280554281
eren having a meltdown was more interesting

>>280551741 (OP)
hahaha
then why don't you try to fix current fujos shitholes nu-wsj oldshitter?

>>280551741 (OP)
>>280552088
He could've BTFO all the doubters for eternity if he'd just stuck to his original ending
Pussyama deserves all the hate

>>280551741 (OP)
I mean, he's right. But it doesn't exactly take a genius to see that after the way the series ended, kek. No shit a series who's main character's send off is him crying that he doesn't want to get cuck isn't going to have a positive legacy.

>>280554213
It made SnK fans seethe, so it was useful

>>280551878
you're right but in this case so is he

>>280551741 (OP)
Being a monthly manga really really did wonders for this series..It may have been a 3-4 year series if it released in WSJ but it didn't even reach peak hype until like the 6-7 year mark of its run. It's really rare for a manga to carry such hype for almost an entire decade

>>280551741 (OP)
Both AoT and DB have dogshit endings so who gives a fuck lol

Attack on Titan just stole so many things from Muv-Luv (which itself stole so many things from Blue Gender) that I can't defend it
I just can't

>>280554587
The Eren toy I mentioned was also in his titan form, if that wasn't clear enough.

>>280551741 (OP)
KEK, based Torishima. SnKbabs sharting and malding.

>>280551878
Is he wrong though? As soon as the manga started being vague about its mystery aspect and the anime hype died down, its sales went down the flush. When Torishima talks about "long term appeal" he's talking about stuff like Dragon Ball, One Piece, Detective Conan, Naruto, Berserk etc, manga that can keep a huge audience engaged without gimmicks and the smoke & mirrors of anime adaptations.

>actually, the cuck ending was based!

>>280554316
The world is dumb enough as it is. Stop pushing to make it dumber.

>>280551741 (OP)
He's completely right, nobody remembers it fondly or wants to see more from that world
Everybody mostly remembers it for negative reasons, like it's terrible art and nonsensical ending

>>280553655
I love Eldians no matter what they are. They lost to the capitalist globalists.

>>280553701
>great novels
Fuck that shit. Manga is fun. Keep it that way.

Dragon ball editors made sure merch would sell
Attack on Titan editors didn't bother thinking about the merch and now they can't sell shit

>>280552011
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it is an editor actually does and the importance of the role they play in the crafting of a manga, likely because you are underage and ignorant (or retarded, or more likely a combination of both).

>>280555129
I think the guy was talking about becoming household brand names and/or multimedia IPs that can be milked for decades through merchandising and licensing deals, but yeah, the titles you mentioned all qualify for this.

>>280554945
AoT fans are the kind of people who would cheer if their main character lost and cucked and the villains win

>>280552772
>>280553782
Based.

>>280553551
not really, but you're a retarded slave moralist faggot anyways.

>>280551920
Isn't hat true for most series?

DBZ itself is trash

>>280555171
What?

>>280551741 (OP)
>>280552088
What shot? That's just plain truth. Boomers are the true backbone of Japan even tho they are perishing ngl

>>280554235
Really? I’d gotten the impression that the majority of people liked the ending and we were very much in the minority for disliking it
>just as bad as CSM2 enjoyers
Fuck is chainsaw man bad too? Was thinking of watching that as well

>>280556026
Dragon Ball is kino though

I think he's right. SnK basically vanished after it ended. I pretty much never hear people talk about it anymore.
That said, sex with Hitch.

God I hate boomers.

>>280554281
>139 comes out
>various chans shit on it
>Russian 4chan
>"the ending was so bad only a Ukrainian could’ve written it"
>myfuckingsides.jpeg

I thought AoT was awful. Dropped it about 11 episodes in and that was too long.
Doesn't even compare slightly to a show like Frieren.

>>280552858
the silent gens made anime, boomers started making it globohomo

>>280551741 (OP)
>it's bad because we can't milk the fuck out of it for decades like DBZ
really makes you hmm

>>280555129
>started
*stopped. As in, most people only cared about it because of the violence and the (false) sense that every character was in danger of dying, which was popular at the time thanks to stuff like Game of Thrones. When Isayama made the switch from survival mystery to full on war and political drama, he executed it so poorly that he lost not only the audience he had built on shock value and mystery, but also sight of what he really wanted to say with his story (obvious editorial meddling not withstanding).

>>280555300
He could've been easily talking about both things. In fact, considering Torishima's philosophy when it comes to crafting a manga, he almost definitely was. Some people here are assuming he was talking about themes or complexity or even structure, but in reality he's talking about something much more basic, and that's the ability to keep the manga interesting and the audience entertained. To him, if a mangaka achieves that, the merch and multimedia projects etc will all follow. Take DB for example, when compared to SnK it managed to do what Isayama completely failed to do, which was making several changes in tone and thematic, from a light hearted roadtrip adventure that mostly relied on mysticism, to a relatively low stakes martial arts series and finally all out Space Opera soft sci fi with literally the fate of the universe on the line, and each time Toriyama and his editors not only managed to do it seemlessly, but actually increase his audience in the process. On the other hand you've got stuff like One Piece which is a lot more "formulaic" in structure in the sense that unlike DB, it has remained a primarily adventure manga through its over 1k chapters run, but would still be considered a resounding success under Torishima's definition because Oda has managed to keep it interesting to his audience through the years. That's the quality SnK is lacking in his eyes, and I can't disagree.

>>280552927
Kek

>>280551741 (OP)
1) who?
2) didn't this series dominate the charts for a decade?

AOT is basically one of the most successful manga of its decade run time. It will be beneath a juggernaut like Dragonball but easily stands above the other 99% in its medium. Barring a bad ending that saw haters achieve a vindication similar to other normalfag shit like Game of Thrones, AOT was wildly successful. Most love it and gooks favor it highly. I will say that one thing dragonball does extremely well is outside of the canon material and plot. The games, merch and other supplementary material gives it staying power. The fact that it has withstood such a grip for so long is extremely noteworthy.

Honestly this is just bitching by AOT haters though. Most manga wont get close to the peaks AOT did.

>>280552858
The boomers are why their young population decreases every year

>>280551741 (OP)
>creating a character is easy
lol lmao even
And this comes from a man whose advice was a detriment to DB and Toriyama would have done better without editor meddling.

>>280557280
he still had say up until the end of the cell arc even after he moved on to a higher role. look at the quality of the buu arc and super and diaper. people like toriyama are retarded without strict editors because they want to do the stupidest shit

>Golden Age Editor/Director/Mangaka shit talking about new blood

>>280551741 (OP)
Where is the lie? AOT doesn’t really have much going for it and ends very anticlimactically.

>>280551741 (OP)
>The time was the tipping point of the netouyo uprising, they were everywhere and numerous, NND was their major bastion which still had its relevancy and being a melting pot of their otaku culture, and later became Abe worshipping hole
>Going through all of this culture, a fanatical Muvluv alternative fanboy Isayama creates a similar manga
>Adopting its allegory with less ambiguity, it manifested as a full-fledged fascist manga, riding the tide
>It becomes more and more obvious as it progresses, legendary animanga god boomers obviously sense this, make alarming criticisms on it
>Isayama wanted a complete Eren apologist ending but the pressure was too strong, with the obvious allegorical reasoning
>Wraps up the manga with the most pathetic, uninspiring, ham-fisted lukewarm ending
Could have been Mein Kampf: the manga. At least Sanseito will have his vote

>>280552692
>Nihei Tsutomu's editor when he was drawing BLAME! was fucking dogshit.
Tell me more

A good editor can bring out author's full potential without mangaka understand
Example : Torishima and Toriyama
Toriyama just want to draw poop joke comedy, but Torishima hardass force him to draw fighting manga

>>280557532
Isayama still has the opportunity to write a new final chapter and retcon away the original ending, but I doubt he'd do anything based because he's a pushover

>>280553056
It's GT that killed the franchise before Super resurected it, Daima was good until they brought GT cancer into canon

Did Isayama's editor interview in the last decade?

>>280557925
Fuck that faggot then

>>280557982
No he's in hiding

>>280557925
The light hearted adventure / slice of life stuff is literally the best part of Dragon Ball

>>280551741 (OP)
>SNK is completely forgotten by now
he's right

>>280551741 (OP)
So he's saying the series is bad because the author didn’t turn it into an endless generic slop series with hundreds of episodes?

SnK sucks but for different reasons.

>>280558040
What makes it worth it are the stakes Goku and his friends have to overcome. But frankly, Toriyama's talent for paneling was too good not to use for fights, the editor was basically encouraging him to create a blueprint that could be studied for a long time.

>>280551741 (OP)
Attack on went to shit the moment they had the fake death of Eren only to bring him up as a titan.

>>280558780
it went to shit on the first panel

>>280556102
An editor of his pedigree and fame would obviously be right and he's on the money 100% especially when it comes to SnK. It's a series that is already forgotten and whatever reputation it has left is simply people mocking it. That's the least desirable outcome for any series. All because of Isayama's hubris, he made sure his work is forever disregarded.

>>280558811
>>280558780
Explain to me what kind of deal with the Devil did Isayama make for SnK to get that popular in the early 2010's with such horrifically bad art that's not fit for magazine publication?

>>280558839
The committee recognized the potential in a zombie-like story and animating the ODM gear, gathering the best animators to work on it

>>280558884
The ODM gear concept is the only good idea that Isayama has ever had, and it carried this shit property for a decade and a half. That and, as you said, the zombie-like story which was the rage back then and hit the spot perfectly. I don't think we've ever had such a massive event series like AoT S1 before or since. I mean, you remember but it really was massive. I never liked it even back then and knew it would inevitably crash down like it did.

>>280552088
>Tomino accused the editor's are at fault to pass it for commercialization
Thank you, Sukhmandeep Prandahar. Very cool.

>>280558839
It was actually good.

>>280558839
He read Muv-Luv Alternative and ripped off some of the things that made that work, even diluted it still appealed to people

He was right
the story went off the rails pretty early on, kept running with some stupid plot that just kept getting worse and everyone shat on the ending when it finally got axed.

>>280559327
No.
>>280559410
Makes sense. All he had going for him was the concept and some faintly interesting characters like Misaka and that's about it. People pulled through with it just because of the anime. Talk about putting lipstick on a pig.

>>280559327
Only the very first episode of SnK was good.

Facts: Eotena Onslaught became shit when the human vs human glowie civil war started, and became completely irredeemable dogshit when they got to the basement and the big mysteries of the story were revealed as
>it's just nazis and jews again?
>always has been

>>280552858
>they worked in the golden era of anime/manga
That was gen x when they were young

How many people shitting on AoT would have had different opinions if there wasn't such a reddit ending?

>>280555064
>Attack on Titan just stole so many things from Muv-Luv (which itself stole so many things from Blue Gender)
Which I suspect the makers for Blue Gender were inspired by Starship Troopers.

>>280559975
LOOOOOOL
the jig was well and truly up shortly after the point where the first season ended, my man. Then the basement reveal delivered the killing blow. It was long dead before the meme ending.

>>280560003
Don't pretend there wasn't a revival of interest after the timeskip.

>>280551741 (OP)
Reminder this dude is such a cunt Toriyama based Dr. Mashirito off of him.

>>280560021
i am actually lmaoing

>>280560020
Which lasted for all of a few chapters.

>>280560123
Enough for more than just a few readers who had previously lost faith in the series to suddenly be interested again. The majority of whom were the largest detractors of the ending.

>>280552858
And then they sealed themselves off in high level positions of government and industry and fucked up Japan complely and now the youth are straining under the harm caused by elder generations even as they have to pay for the geezers' pensions and healthcare. Wow, thanks boomees.

>>280560148
The series never stopped being a meme shortly after the cutoff point of S1 and the long wait between seasons as the anime is the only thing people cared about when it came to AoT. They just sucked up the manga until it became too unbearable and due to sunk cost fallacy.

retards
https://www.cbr.com/shonen-jump-editor-calls-out-attack-on-titan/

>>280560234
You're confusing two different group of readers. The sunk cost fallacy crowd were the ones who stuck through the unpopular middle part. They're the ones who still defend the ending. On the other hand, most of the vitriol directed toward AoT and Isayama now comes from the readers who had previously lost interest before the change in direction.

>>280560280
I despise AoT and everything related to it but these are completely asinine statements.

>>280560311
Both groups suffer from sunk cost fallacy, albeit in different degrees and they overlap more than you're making it thus making the distinction near pedantic. Ultimately, it was a meme series living on borrowed time and ended accordingly and is now rightfully forgotten and discarded.

>>280560280
This guy is unwittingly making a case for SNK being worth it's reader's time and not just a cheap product with no substance. Naruto is 700 chapters long and it hasn't got more depth than Tom and Jerry? Why should I read that?

>>280551878
fpbp

>>280560500
He would if SnK had any actual depth and wasn't one meme moment after the other and written by someone who consumes Hollywood garbage and proudly boasts about how it influences his manga publicly.

>>280560365
If that arc that coincided with the brief revival was rewriten to better fit in with the ending, with all of the stuff that people hated properly being foreshadowed, do you think that people would have been as spiteful about it then otherwise? If it was always seen as a meme series, people wouldn't have been as mad as they are now, when when they can envision an alternative, better resolution.

>>280552011
Manga industry thrives off young authors because they have a lot of energy. The issue is that they're young and most people generally don't know shit when they're young, so partnering them with a jaded old coot humbles the fiery young authors and keeps them level headed.

>>280560584
Just because there was outrage over it (which is pretty much dissipated into nothing since thus validating its meme series status) doesn't make it NOT a meme series. If anything, it proves what a meme series it is because all it had going for it and limping it to a conclusion was headcanon people had about the story to make it any less of a meme. That was always the case with SnK. People always saw the potential and the fan theories always exasperated the lost potential when Isayama always showed he was never good for anything and just a D-rate mangaka (with F-rate art) who just ripped off Muv-Luv to the point of gross plagiarism and gimmicks like ODM gear and Mikasa/Levi. That's all. It was never a respected series, just meme shit.

>>280551741 (OP)
More like: "Creating a mystery/starting a story is a simple thing. Even a child can do it."
But solving the mystery and ending a story in a satisfying way is hard.

AoT is anime Lost. Isayama is the Japanese J. J. Abrams.

>>280560500
godlike animation
godlike comedy
if you're into these kind of technicality its must watch im talking about tom and jerry btw also why would anyone want entertainment to be deep if you want to study study real things not watching entertainment and act like you know shits
we fucking have internet and now ai you can get real accurate knowledge instead of learn it from watching jap cartoon but no you just want to escape from reality and be sad with fictional characters

>>280551741 (OP)
OH NO NO NONONONONO attack on moe sisters... The DragonGODS are making fun of us again...

>>280560280
he's kind of right
all the complex stories with mainstream appeal are mostly surface-level shit that's just enough to make the audience smart for getting it

>>280552811
Man, I fucking wish I could forget that bullshit ending.

>>280561318
Isayama is such a slimy fuck. All he did was just hint at stuff and just let people run wild with their own theories/fanfiction about it and that's what sustained his manga. Just giving the audience, who's more creative than him, breadcrumbs about an actually good story and then when it came time to end it and actually follow through with shit, he imploded.

>>280559979
Based and Heinleinpilled

>>280551878
I forgot about attack on titan some years ago.
So did everyone else

>>280552011
editorial work is a lot like that one episode of futurama where bender plays god. if you're doing a good job, people won't think you're doing anything at all

>>280552088
Sounds like a typical senior war-experiencer VS modern warmonger situation.

SnK is shit but Dragon Ball is sovless slop designed to sell shit video games and toys to retarded spics and the entirety of anime would be better off if it never existed.

>>280562393
You've never read Dragon Ball, don't bother lying about it.

>>280551741 (OP)
>SQUAWK SQUAWK I’m such a happy cuckoo!

>>280556026
it's true for most anime because anime is adapted from successful manga, which are selected to be dogshit trend chasing stuff with compelling "hooks" and not good overall stories

I find it funny that there is a reddit page called attackonretards dedicated to defending the ending, and the only retards are the people in that sub

>>280562460
He's a hopelessly mind fucked person. Look at his use of /v/ and /tv/ lingo like some embarrassing schizophrenic motherfucker.

>>280553115
>Anon, normalfags are 90% weirdo fujos, trannies and like minded people
Twitter isn't real life, sperg. Touch grass, it'll save your life

>>280562460
>>280562718
Post Dragon Ball having good writing.

>>280552413
Characters on Tomino's series idea lot. Even kids getting their head blown up by a bazooka. But he always displays the violence as a matter of fact totally different as Isayama.

>>280560280
I dunno about him but I had more fun within AOT's first 50 episodes than hundreds upon hundreds of shonen anime episodes

>>280563105

>>280563307
He wouldn't say that

>>280563341
He did Z-tard

>>280552450
>Many editors tard wrangle authors out of their worst instincts and you never really hear from them.
Like the guy that edited Part 1 of Naruto.

>>280553115
Have you tried stepping outside the internet? Normalfags are 90% ∅ if anything.

>>280563307
He said good writing

>>280563616
It took you ten minutes to come up with that?

>>280558839
A good anime adaption, we go over this for the millionth time.

>>280563665
He's a brown lolcow tourist from /co/. /a/ should really moderate the threads.

>>280552361
The old DB editors also hate Toyotaro.

>>280551878
this statement doesn't have to have any age attached to it. the only characters that will be remembered are Kekren because muh genocide to 10 years at least and Levi because fujos.

>>280558040
You sound like that faggot VegetteoEx.

>>280563665
No, it took 5 seconds because that's when I read it.
>>280564343
>/co/fag
Shounen is dogshit, all of it, same shitty corporate motivations rehashing the same formulaic dogshit, not taking any risks or adapting new content or ideas. Seinen is basically dead in the water and doesn't get any attention.

Case and point, look at this fucking Geezer, the literal creator of dragon ball, completely incapable of imagining a character in media that should exist for something more than longevity and corporate bag pumping. Not that it should exist for itself or just to tell a good story before that story ends. Follow up with Dragon Ball's successors, like Wan Piss, Bleach and Boruto, shit is never granted the mercy of death because you can always squeeze out. New adaptions? All the same shounenslop like Demon Slayer and the ilk, carbon copies of shounen formula.
We will never get 1990-2005 anime back, and I blame Dragon Ball for that.

Kys btw.

>>280564735
Really? How do you know? I dislike Toyotaro's work too, mostly because it looks and reads like fanfiction. That's not all his fault though.

>>280553551
>muh armbands
narratively Eldians are much closer to post ww2 Germans no matter from which way you look at it.

Torishima is based. I disagree that all manga should be Tom and Jerry, but I wish we had more manga on the level of Tom and Jerry/Toriyama's gag manga.

>>280565845
kekaroo

>>280553551
>>280565580
you're both wrong, it's post-WW2 Japan

SnK was the prototypical "hype moments and aura" series. No lasting power at all

>>280560280
>>280551741 (OP)
Holy fuck is this guy a retard. I've never seen a take from a mangaka that was this bad. This mindset is the exact reason why both the western movie sphere is shit and so is most modern anime. People only care about hype moments, nobody cares about the quality of writing anymore.

This entire retard's diatribe reads as anti-art and anti-intellectualism. Japs are fucked if they listen to this guy.

>>280552088
He was RIGHT

>>280551741 (OP)
>WSJ still seething this much and in denial that their retarded editor made a mistake from not serializing AoT
lmao and now they are even desperate enough to serialize trash like Ekiden Bros

>>280566108
Listening to everything this guy said resulted in Dragon Ball existing.

>>280566483
Dragon Ball is shit. So that kind of checks out.

>>280551741 (OP)
Long term appeal doesn’t matter. Isayama already got enough money for a lifetime and told the dogshit story he wanted to tell. Besides we can see where WSJ’s obsession with kikery and muh merch has got it now, magazine is bloated with nothing but derivative trash.
>>280552928
Most people don’t have standards for writing, they still enjoyed GoT up to season 7 when it went to shit 3 seasons ago. Then season 8 goes from garbage to dumpster fire and they’re somehow shocked

>>280566306
It’s sad to see honestly.

>>280566531
You're a strange, sad little man.

>>280560280
Thing is even if a series goes to mediocrity/shit like Naruto did, people will still keep reading for the mystery box/light in the tunnel and to see beloved characters (that are long since flanderised). Same One Piece, long since lost any semblance of serviceable writing now but people still keep reading to see where it goes due to the billion mystery boxes. It’s got nothing to do with simplicity or complexity. Otherwise why didn’t Boruto lift off? And he fails to consider that these series were once decent. Dragon Ball, Naruto and One Piece all used to be a lot better before they went to shit. Release a series that starts off as dogshit like Boruto and nobody will get invested.

Also he claims AoT was complex when it started off as a 1d zombie thriller so I don’t get what he’s on about. Maybe he’s just suffering from Alzheimers.

>>280561407
Naruto is mostly dramatic with occasional comic relief, so your point doesn’t work here.
>no you just want to escape from reality and be sad with fictional characters
Naruto is chock full of forced tearjerkers and mopey edgelords that try to be deep though?

>>280566936
>Also he claims AoT was complex when it started off as a 1d zombie thriller so I don’t get what he’s on about.
it had mystery boxes and things to speculate about and a story with themes easy enough for normalfags to recognize and feel smart about
that's still more complex than Dragon Ball

>>280567469
Every long running shonen has mystery box and nearly every story in existence has themes.

>>280551741 (OP)
>made lots of noise
isn't that just dragon ball? decades of time and yet nothing more came out of it than some dudes screaming

>>280560280
This encapsulates one-punch man, jujutsu and dandandan.

>>280563306
AOT balanced both elements (story & fun) pretty well early doors. It wont last like dbz, but for a moment there it gave anime one of the biggest highs that it has had, with people even comparing to “mature” live-action shows like GOT.

>>280563307
Dragon ball unironically has lots of great lessons and positives aspects to mimic. Stops with DBS, obviously.

>>280551741 (OP)
He's right, Isayama is a coward and a hack.
Here is him literally crying and apologizing about the ending.
He clearly regretted it with how he had to add extra pages after the release because of how dogshit the conclusion was, and even then it remained shit.

>>280558819
>An editor of his pedigree and fame would obviously be right
This is a retarded authority argument. SnK is kind of shit but so is your reasoning.

>>280551878
>It's boneitus!

>>280566002
The vast majority of shonenshit is all hype moments and aura.

>>280569140
>one-punch man
ONE is a just hack, he tries to subvert the overpowered protagonist trope only to use it as a crutch.
>jujutsu
Has no story, is just aura hype and fights. >dandandan
Tailor made for tiktok

>>280560280
He's basically saying Naruto and DB were for kids while AoT was for a more mature audience, he's not wrong but wanting all manga to cater to children is retarded.

>>280570620
SAFETY DANCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m26Fy2oTm1c

>>280551741 (OP)
If dragon ball hadn't gottem me by the balls from an early age i wouldn't think of it just like i don't think about jujutsu, demon slayer, solo gook. But i do think about attack on titan once in awhile because the story was amazing and the disappointment later was also amazing.

the characters in aot just suck. additionally the mystery twist stuff sucks. the series withholds a ton of information from you rather than building anticipation by letting events play out. then there has to be flashbacks and other nonsense to explain the twists. the story would be way better if it followed things chronologically from when reiner and others were kids. the serial release format just fucks it. but a ton of casual retards love it for some reason.

dbz is way better.

>>280571626
You’re right but WSJ are still soulless kikes that suck the soul out of every one of their series. HxH is among the best battle shonen and that’s only because Togashi negotiated a contract saying fuck you to WSJ’s micromanagement

>>280574340
togashi wanted gon to fail the hunter exam but an editor told him no

>>280575382
I kneel.

>>280551741 (OP)
BASED

Only fucking stupid zoomers like Attack on Titan. Shit was a shallow edgy fad.

>say it's obvious Eren likes Mikasa at the start and he's just a butthurt manlet mad she is tougher than him
>get called delusional shipper even though I hate the characters
>drop the shitty mango
>fast forward years later to the ending
>mfw

>>280574340
snk was not in jump

>>280576003
Talking about the editor in OP

>>280566936
As braindead as SnK always was, it *is* complex when put next to shit as mindnumbing as JJK, CSM, Kagurabachi, DanDaDan, Sakamoto Days, etc. It actually had a story and characters, sure they were shit, but they were there. Jump forces its series to be nothing but vehicles for shallow action scenes nowadays, basically like Bleach but even worse. It's not a compliment to SnK, it's an indictment of WSJ.

>>280576292
>As braindead as SnK always was, it *is* complex when put next to shit as mindnumbing as JJK, CSM, Kagurabachi, DanDaDan, Sakamoto Days, etc
Posts like this makes me so happy that SnK turned to shit because you know the people whio followed SnK looked down on other shounenflop thinking SnK was for MATURE VIEWERS LIKE MYSELF and then it managed to have the worse ended imaginable.

>>280565524
His inability to draw original art.

>>280551741 (OP)

>>280576448
I'm not an SnK fan. Again, I thought it was braindead slop the whole time. It's just rich for a WSJ editor to be commenting when most of his magazine's current and recent lineup is even worse.

>>280560280
I'd rather read DB multiple times (which I have) instead of wasting a single minute reading or watching AoT, so again, Torishima is right. Why would you choose to read badly executed drama and pseudo complexity instead of a manga that actually pulls out what it's trying to do without pretensions? If you want to read an actually well written drama with psychologically rich characters, pick up a book. Better yet, start with the Greek classics and work your way up.

>>280561318
>AoT is anime Lost. Isayama is the Japanese J. J. Abrams.
Yeah, basically. I'd say Isayame is slightly less of a hack because unlike the imbecile that shat out Lost, he actually intended to solve the mystery instead of just making an empty promise to trap a gullible audience. It just turned out that the content of the mystery box was a pile of shit.

>>280563307
Based and turtlepilled. Isayama could never.

>>280551741 (OP)
A typically obtuse Japanese statement. Implying that Dragon Ball is inherently superior because it is "le marketable" and that Attack on Titan is worthless because it exists as a singular story with a begining middle and end that actually concluded, rather than existing as a "product" to endlessly be milked.

I'm not even shitting on Dragon Ball, it's a classic franchise, but I don't even think Toriyama would say that it's marketability was what made it special. This dude here is just a soulless corporate shill.

"Making characters is easy, even a child could do it". Is this just bad translation or are Jap boomers in the habit of spouting obtuse nonsense?

>>280552450
Not everything has to persist for ever after ending, anon. It's ok for a story to just end, and in time the fanbase ebbs away. It's not normal for every single product to have to be milked endlessly for generations.

>>280568933
Some dudes I know got buffed as a brickhouse and got into martial arts because they were inspired by Goku, hell I bet everyone knew a kid like that. That's already orders of magnitude more impactd on people's lives than a 100 SnK could ever have, if you're under the assumption that fiction should have that goal.

>editor talking shit about being creative
Why didn't this old fuck come up with a new best-selling series on his own, then?

>>280565845
>I decide to make DB a manga without substance
Damn. He must be so fucking proud of Super.

>>280578492
This is true. I’m one.

>>280578861
He has stated multiple times that he thinks the DBS anime and Toyotaro as a mangaka have a lot to improve, which coming from a Japanese senior to say in public is as good as a scathing review as it gets unless your last name is Miyazaki or Tomino. In his defense, it's far from incoherent, he might just not find DBS entertaining enough despite achieving the lack of substance part. Bear in mind that while I disagree with him saying all manga should aspire to be nothing but simple fun, U absolutely agree with him essentially calling SnK a wet fart.

>>280552011
For some reason, I've seen multiple disparate sources sing the praises of Sawa from Weekly Champion. Given how the sudden and extreme the decline of Paru Itagaki's work was around the same time she acknowledged working with a new editor, I'm inclined to believe it.

>>280551878
lmao

>>280552858
Arrest yourself and go to bed doomer, the golden era is over and it takes some time to make another reinassance.

>>280577652
he was editor of Jump's Golden Age
Its not his fault that current Jump was shit
Blame current editor

>>280581291
Lmao, there's no renaissance zoomers and every new gen after them are retarded in every possible sense, no chance. Also lmaoing at every angry zoomer that replied.

>>280551878
FPBP
OP ON SUICIDE WATCH
TORISHIMA BTFO BEYOND RECOVERY
How will they ever cope??!!

>>280578284
/thread

>>280554157
Not confirmed

>>280578492
That's mostly a result of these people being retarded foreigners who never saw any other martial arts fiction than Dragonball than anything specific to Dragonball.

>>280551741 (OP)
He is right. AoT relied entirely on mystery boxes, "hype" moments and shock value, all of which lose impact quickly. There is a reason why nobody talks about it anymore other than to shit on the ending. Even the people who liked it forgot about it rather quick.

Attack on Titan suffers from structural and character issues that undermine its potential. The nonlinear narrative - especially the delayed reveal of Marley and the Titan Warrior program - feels more like a manipulation tactic than a legitimate mystery. The story withholds crucial context for too long, creating artificial suspense instead of building meaningful stakes from the outset.

The decision to obscure Reiner, Bertholdt, and Annie's backstory until halfway through the series guts their character development. As a result, they read as hollow or arbitrarily conflicted until a retroactive info dump tries to justify their actions. If the series had started chronologically with their indoctrination, infiltration, and internal breakdown, their motivations would carry more psychological depth, and the audience would actually understand the cost of their mission. That approach would also clarify the political and ideological landscape early on, allowing Eren’s transformation to be grounded in a real world, rather than a drip-fed abstraction.

The twist-heavy storytelling prioritizes shock over coherence. Every season hinges on withholding or reversing information instead of letting the consequences of earlier decisions play out in real time. The "mystery box" style - clearly influenced by shows like Lost - forces characters into archetypes until a reveal recontextualizes them, but by that point, it's too late to care.

Following the story from Marley’s perspective from the beginning would have immediately framed Paradis as an ambiguous enemy rather than a victim-centered narrative that suddenly pivots into moral relativism. Isayama wanted moral ambiguity, but the structure neuters it by loading all perspective into the second half. It's disjointed and feels like a bait-and-switch rather than a planned tragedy.

>>280583550
Thanks gpt-kun. Didn't read though.

>>280583730
Reiner and Bertholdt, in particular, suffer from this. Their roles in the early seasons are defined not by internal conflict, but by opaque behavior meant to preserve a twist. The audience is not allowed into their psychology until after the reveal, which makes their guilt and breakdown feel like plot-required emotionality rather than earned narrative weight. The irony is that their story - the paradox of child soldiers sent to destroy innocents they grow to care for - is the emotional and philosophical backbone of the entire series. But that backbone is buried under misdirection.

>>280551741 (OP)
>lacks long term appeal
True. The titans were the hook, when the author moved to human vs human conflicts it started falling apart because he's just not equipped to discuss politics. People only put up it with because extreme right wing thought was gaining popularity and they hoped AoT would pander to them with the ending, we all know how that went. There's simply no appeal anymore.

>>280583937
the human vs human is the best part

>>280551878
Jap Boomers are the reason anime exists you zoomertranny

>>280583362
>you gotta watch more anime/movies/novel
absolute /a/tards im not wasting more time with this shit

>>280556142
Hitch rocks. Very underrated, like my Frieda

>>280556142
>>280584710
Hitch sex.

>>280551741 (OP)
The battle of which battle shounen is better is like arguing who is the king of shit. At least AoT was sometimes good.

>>280581291
>Arrest yourself
Lmao, been a while since I've seen this forced meme.

>>280551741 (OP)
Nothing says "soul" than the ability to make money of it

>>280569140
No one gives a shit about one joke man, lul.

>>280560280
This guy is an utter retard who knows nothing. Naruto is virtually no different than AoT when it comes to theme and tone. It's also filled to the brim with drama, politics, and war.

>>280563307
Actually a great life lesson. More guys need to lead with this mindset and stop obsession over chicks.

>>280585111
Not really no

>>280563307
The work hard, study well and eat and sleep plenty lesson is still living rent free in my head after over 2 decades, it is a great life lesson.

>>280551741 (OP)
Dropped SNK when it started to be about politics. Dodged the magic giants bullshit.

>>280565391
>completely incapable of imagining a character in media that should exist for something more than longevity and corporate bag pumping
It is pretty bad SnK has no long term appeal considering its political themes and how relevant that would be today. SnK failed, no one cares about its messages.

Now that the dust has settled, I am convinced that Isayama never intended a full rumbling. There was no way his favourite characters would die.
Also the anime made the yeagerists more sympathetic than the manga.

>>280552858
>, they worked in the golden era of anime/manga before it was overtaken by antijapanese ideology
fix'd

>>280560280
Every story doesn't have to be "wwwwwwwweeeee fun haha" There are moments in Dr Slump and DB that are not "fun", that said AoT problem isn't that it had lessons to learn it's the fact it didn't, the irony is nothing hits because Isayama/his editors or whoever back tracked on EVERYTHING !

>an overwhelming enemy attack on your homeland? do your best to defend everything you hold dear to
lol actually YOU'RE THE BAD GUY YOU MUST BE PUNISHED
>cooped up in a walled prision? dare to see the outside world at any cost for your freedom to
lol it's better inside the walls you should never leave them
>The only way to stop a war is to attack the enemy at his home?
You shouldn'tve have done that
>Eren is in the right?
ARUMIN IS THE BEST CHARACTER
>War is bad peace good?
LOL JUST KIDDING FUCK YOU PARADIS HERE'S ANOTHER BOMB

just block after block after block the dumbass ending is the absolute worst and our main character was LITERALLY proven to be right. If it had ended with just Jean's monologue I could let it slide but the future Paradis thing with the tree and you're left thinking "what the fuck was any of it for?"

>>280560280
This is complete goobledygook nonsense to the point I think it's a translation issue.
I genuinely do not believe someone working industry for this long could possibly be this retarded.

There's plenty of complex stories that are universally beloved and I don't even like SnK enough to finish it but it was objectively a success, so he's just plain wrong.

>>280551741 (OP)
By the way, this is the same magazine that rejected AoT's submission into the magazine before it became a hit. Anybody can easily see this remark as a form of sour grapes since they mistakenly let a golden goose slip through their fingers.

>>280551878
There are probably anons in this thread younger than AoT as a series is
Also AoT was immediately forgotten about once it ended so is Toshima even wrong?

>>280585637
It's a good lesson when taken independantly but also it's just Toriyama having a raff, Roshi does not embody that message at all, it's a gag more than it is a moral lesson

>>280557280
Nah Toriyama needed a tard wrangler. Him being asshurt at his editors at times resulted in some fun things too kek

>>280551741 (OP)
Even a horrible ending like SnK is better than having a corpse of a series puppeteered around in order to sell toys.

>>280589200
That'd happen with SnK too if there was the demand for it.

>>280558040
That shit was garbage then and it’s garbage now. Not one iconic scene that people remember today is from the first part of DB

>>280589221
>SnK version of DBS or Boruto
thank god nobody cares anymore

>>280578284
Snk died before it even ended. This is not comparable to old classics that people look fondly back to.

>>280551741 (OP)
>long term appeal
Read: "I can't milk this for 10000 episodes".

This guy is an editor, he's not concerned with quality, he just wants the shit to keep selling. He probably thinks naruto/boruto is a masterpiece because it refuses to die.

>>280583951
It’s black and white ‘entire world government vs one state’ + Eren gets the most brutal character assassination

>>280551741 (OP)
Skipping out on SnK is considered one of Shonen Jump's biggest blunders. Is he salty about that?

>>280552858
Boomers were kids during Japan's reconstruction. it's in the fucking name. Boomers brought the globohomo.

>>280552011
there hasn't been a single good chapter of jojo since araki changed editors.

>>280560280
>look man I don't care about making quality content i'm trying to sell slop here
I mean he's not wrong, i think people just odn't get what he's saying. He's like a fast food chain owner saying you should serve healthy, expensive dishes, and he's right, it doesn't work in the context of a fast food restaurant, they're for poor self-destructive retards that want quick yummy garbage. You may consider it morally wrong, but from an utilitarian standpoint, he's right. If retarded mexicans keep consuming DB then just keep pumping it out.

>>280583520
It was a "meme" series in every facet. It will have no lasting impact and be remembered only in mockery and derision. A relic of the 2010's that outlasted its welcome before limping to the finish line and then faceplanting on the ground once it crossed it. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving author. Isayama is everything bad about mangakas and the industry and the current crop of creatives all rolled into one that it's almost comical. I sincerely doubt he ever puts pen to paper on another series and just lives off of the earnings he made suckering in millions all for nothing.
>>280585613
Don't insult Naruto with comparing it to SnK, for fuck's sake. One is a landmark series that is well worthy of its reputation and status and the other is nothing but a joke that people amused for far too long just for the pseudo-novelty of its gimmicks.

>>280590384
>the other is nothing but a joke that people amused for far too long just for the pseudo-novelty of its gimmicks.
You could say this about Naruto as well. It’s memed on a lot and generally considered to be entry level garbage.

>>280590422
That's a line from a meme copypasta bait. Idiot.

>>280590384
>Don't insult Naruto with comparing it to SnK
Nardo is far worse lmao.

>>280590842
It has truth though. Naruto is ok until you watch literally any decent action anime, then you’ll be astounded how more happens in 2 cours than 100 eps of nardo

>>280590886
Naruto was just ok up until the chunin exam arc. Nothing that great or incredibly but still fine. Of course it's after that it's decline began, with everything past pain arc a true shit show.

>>280590852
>>280590886
>>280590422
The fact that you meme baiters from 2013 actually still exist in 2025 is cosmically depressing.

>>280551741 (OP)
Because Dragon Ball has such a great legacy, uh?

>>280564735
Fuck off you retard. The manga by Toyotaro is by far the best Dragon Ball content. It's the shitty anime that's taking up space.
Have you seen the Tournament of Power? 3 hours of complete distiled SHIT.
The manga made it tolerable.

>>280590950
Cope. Only normalfags who just watched their first anime think Naruto is anything special.

>>280585613
Naruto is a more shonenfied version of SnK, if that makes sense.
They both even ended in a wet fart.
But Naruto has the same stin- I mean, lasting appeal, Dragon Ball has.

>>280590384
>Don't insult Naruto with comparing it to SnK
No, lick my balls. Whatever good Naruto had going for it is sabotaged by becoming yet another zombie franchise with Borushit.

>>280591001
Yes?

>>280591097
Boruto is at least attempting to explain the parts you hated in Naruto.

>>280591061
Tbh while SnK’s ending was a spectacular level of trainwreck, Nardo was just mundanely terrible. Now imagine Sakura kissing Nardo’s head while Sasuke smiles in the background then Hinata marries some other guy

>>280591061
I get what you mean. SnK's conflicts lays it on pretty thick with obvious irl parallels. Meanwhile, that stuff is pushed a bit to the background in Naruto.

>>280591001
It's literally the most recognisable media franchise from Japan.

>>280591031
Nope, it's a seminal work and it deserves to be. Outside of a very, very small group of schizophrenics on this board, it is viewed as such. I'll level with you, even though I shouldn't, everything after Pain is crappy for sure but before? Oh, come the fuck on, it was great. It had easily the best worldbuilding, characters, power system, writing and art out of all the big 3 and it had a bigger peak than anything airing at the time. It was huge and deservingly so. Did it go to crap? Sure, but it doesn't erode the greatness that it was beforehand.

>>280591106
Super, Heroes, Xenoverse. It's all fanservice trash.
And the moment someone tries to write something with this story, BOOM, canceled.
Oh no better not touch Bardock's story. J-just release more fanservice to make them forget!!! (Daima)

>>280591061
>>280591130
Naruto's personal drama plotlines and war conflicts were written much more seriously and believably than anything in SnK, come on. Isayama is an eternal amateur who lucked out like a fucker by just copying Muv-Luv to the bone and coating it in this memetic faux-European aesthetic and also zombies. He just pastiched enough gimmicks to create the perfect storm, not out of ingenuity but of dumb luck and throwing shit against the wall till it stuck.

>>280591130
No, Naruto also had a war at the end of it. Also making the characters unite to fight a common enemy. It was just... more shonenfied. To not be disrespectful.

>>280591167
>Oh no better not touch Bardock's story
>he doesn't know

I legit think Naruto will have a Naruto Super down the road. Or once Kishi dies or sells this shit to Disney or Cartoon Network.
With a shittier art style even.

>>280591206
know what? The man082v8ga is currently in hiatus.

>>280591140
Let me guess, you watched it as a kid, now you associate it with the good memories of back then. Good for you. Doesn't change the fact Naurto is shit.
>worldbuilding
Kishimto was literally making shit up along the way lmao. Remember how Shukaku was supposed to be a spirit of an old priest or Sharingan and Byakugan's connection early on?
>characters
Literally some of least likable main characters in shonen and it wasted a lot of it's side cast in part 2. What are you on about bro?
>power system
Oh, now you're being extra delusional. Even other narutards agree with how broken the whole system is going from Zabuza and Kakshi fights to the later fights in part 2.
>Outside of a very, very small group of schizophrenics on this board, it is viewed as such
Like I said, keep coping.

>>280591313
You're mentally diseased from non-stop internet usage and should take a break for two fucking seconds, man.

>>280591331
>No argument.
I accept your concession.

>>280591381
There's no argument to be made with someone who wants to argue one of the series on the Mount Rushmore of the anime and manga industry is actually even below a piece of crap meme series like SnK. You're just spouting insanity because you're insane and there's no arguing with someone who's insane.

>>280591408
baiting too hard

>>280591408
>It's popular therefore I don't have to refute any of the valid criticism you made to defend it.
Anon, you need to stop projecting.

>>280551741 (OP)
Is he the same Dragonball editor who said One Piece should be cancelled because it wouldn't sell?

>>280551741 (OP)
Did it have a huge cultural impact? No.
Was it very popular? Yes.
Did it make lots of money? Yes.
Was he responsible for passing on it when it was first pitched to WSJ? Also yes lmao

>>280591189
>Naruto's personal drama plotlines and war conflicts were written much more seriously and believa
Like when Pain said "oh my bad" and resurrected the entire village? I wish Naruto was still banned on sight here

>>280591503
>Foresight to know it's going to be shit in the end.
That's experience for you.

>>280551741 (OP)
Retribution awaits
t. MuvLuvin' it

>>280591579
Still made money

hes right. snk is forgettable garbage butchered by the author to such a bad extent its even shitty to remember it. dbz is forever. kys autists LMAO

just watch starship troopers nigga it's all the same thing

>>280591866
>dbz is forever
...getting its dead rotting corpse milked in hope of selling as much products and merchandise as possible

Toriyama is a traitor who sold off his own magnum opus to make a few more bucks and probably buy a few more vacations and retarded toys in his last senile years btw.

this is the same guy that tried to axe bleach 25 years ago. old man out of touch yelling at the clouds. news flash: dragonball hasn't even been an anime since the 80s. it's a SATURDAY MORNING CARTOON.

>>280556121
>Fuck is chainsaw man bad too? Was thinking of watching that as well
There's a part 1 and a part 2.
Part 1 is pretty self-contained and ends on a good note (chapter 97), it's worth reading and you can stop there if you want. Part 2 is boring and nonsensical slop.

>>280591904
Every time I watch starship troopers I get the urge to join the military

>>280592291
Serve your motherfuggin COUNTRY. Represent.

>>280551741 (OP)
>"other series is not good"
>dragon ball editor
Well OK then... any other hot takes I can hold in contempt?

>>280551741 (OP)
He's completely right, Isayama just wanted to write a story about somebody destroying world because he thought it would be a cool dark power fantasy idea but then he decided to be dishonest around the reasons of wanting to tell that story and tried to frame it around some poorly thought out lenature of humanity message. The result was some near nonsensical character logic, reasoning and honestly terrible ending that was a completely stain on the whole thing
He should have just be straight up with his storytelling instead of giving everything 5 layers of convoluted complexity to try and hide the lack of coherence between the world and his characters

>>280552088
Say what you want about Tomino, at least he had the balls to show genocide and "women".

>>280552011
Editors are a necessary evil

>>280589142
>Also AoT was immediately forgotten about once it ended so is Toshima even wrong?
Only because of it's ending. If it hadn't cucked out it's still be well regarded.

Rabu Annie!

>>280593227
>3/10 wits

>>280594315
even just this character alone makes snk a naruto-tier shonen slop btw.
>HAHAHA the crazy sadist bitch is eating pie!

>>280594523

This is, and will always be, AoT's final cultural legacy.

>>280595005
You people are fucking retarded, that was never really the bad part about the ending. It's understandable for a teenager with godlike powers to just want to be normal and live a normal life with the girl closest to him. The worst offense was actually Eren's motivation being completely diluted for obvious censorship reasons and everyone somehow going ''what a good guy he was!'' as soon as the rumbling ended

>>280595062
Didn't read

>>280594523
Shut up and kneel.

>>280595425
Based Annie appreciator

>>280551878
fp-
well it was a funny first post, but not exactly correct
torishima is just a businessman who finds it hard to think about manga outside of the making money angle

I once watched to s2, now I picked up s3 and I'm at s4 part 1 and the main cast managed to become villains in record time. I'm cheering for that kid that shot through plot armor. Honestly, if the ending isn't total eldian death I'm going to be upset, turns out the propaganda was completely based in factual reality.
Also, the traitorous nigger, need I say more regarding who is good and bad?

>>280551878
Aot is garbage but I still laughed

>>280591131
That would be Pokemon.

>>280591131
That's demonstrably and objectively wrong anon.

>>280591131
>>280597621
I think Godzilla is more recognizable as a Japanese franchise
Or maybe Hello Kitty

>>280598506
What you think is irrelevant. The factual answer is pokemon.

>>280584053
False. Silent Generation created, cultivated and controlled anime until the 2000s.

>>280551741 (OP)
AoT is just Claymore with less cooler monster designs. Claymore was far from perfect, but at least the author knew to end it in time.

>>280598855
Isayama ended AoT at just the right time, he just fucked up the ending itself.

>>280589187
>Him being asshurt at his editors at times resulted in some fun things too kek
Like what? I am genuinely curious what sort of thing he put in as a "fuck you" to editors.

>>280599197
he made Chichi because editors wanted Bulma to end up with Goku

>>280589232
>Not one iconic scene that people remember today
Something being "iconic" isn't a sign of quality. And it's definitely iconic in Japan anyways. That genre just doesn't appeal to american audiences.

>>280551741 (OP)
KEK
AoT sucks

>>280599288
That would have been really weird. I actually found a YouTube channel recently that created an entire voice acted fanfiction just for this subject.

>>280551741 (OP)
I think that's more of an effect of the current times we live in.
With the internet and social media, information simply moves too fast. People are always talking about the newest, shiniest, current thing, while the events from six months ago, even if ongoing, might as well be decades removed.
This isn't relegated to just entertainment either. How many of you remember the Myanmar civil war, the India-Pakistan skirmishes from this year, or even the Israel-Iran war from last month? And if you do remember it, when was the last time you heard someone talking about it?

>>280600491
dragonball would be better if he did marry bulma

>>280601773
Cuck

God I would do bad bad things for a sequel to Attack on Titan 2 that fixes most of the timeskips bullshit, that game had no right to be as good as it was.
>Game is set during the ten year timeskip
>Scout survives his last stand and you're tasked with running an insurgency around the world to gain allies for the island ala MGS V
>Swap between not-Africa ,not-Eastern Europe and not-Turkey training anti Marley militias in fighting Titans while making deals in not-Japan to gain the island political power
>All while building up for the raid in Marley
>Final chunk of the game follows the last chunk of the series with some differences
>Amrin wants to do WW1 because in those ten years you've managed to not only significantly weaken Marley but gained strength enough to genuinely fight them peer to peer
>Eren is no longer a schizo but has a clear reasoning and objective; he doesn't want to hedge his bets on the Allies winning prefers the horrible but 100% victory of the nuclear option
>Scout has to make a decision, betray the people he's been fighting alongside to save his team letting the rumbling happen or fight a seemingly hopeless battle to stop Eren from making those ten years of blood and tears mean nothing
You should also get the option of botching the fight against Eren to get petty revenge against Annie and Reiner for killing your parents

>>280552011
>The day these self-important grifters get phased out by AI completely is the day the entertainment industry starts healing
Do you know nothing of the entertainment industry?
Editors are one of the most important aspect as to what makes a manga good, Naruto in particular had a much shittier premise and was going to fall in the pitfall that a lot of modern shounen do where they just info dump the power system in the second chapter, but the editor reigned Kishimoto in.
The whole reason korean manga are generally worse than japanese manga is because webtoon's editors are basically non-existent. Before webtoon was a thing and they released manga on physical magazines there were some actually good ones thanks to having actual editors. This is also the reason why Weekly Shonen Jump became worse, in order to launch Jump+ they transferred their best editors there and left everything to the new generation that wasn't properly trained, so the new editors ended up being a bunch of hacks that just ruin everything.
TLDR; Editors are necessary, changing them to AI would kill the industry on an instant

>>280551741 (OP)
>>280552088
Wasn't the whole reason Attack on Titan became worse after the country change because Isayama's editor who basically made every good decision was arrested for killing his wife, then after the editor change Isayama was given more freedom and proceeded to ruin every aspect of the story?

I refuse to believe something this stupid wasn't a massive piss take

>>280602887
Editors get a lot of shit (rightfully sometimes) but they are also necessary. Sometimes you need someone not in love with your art to filter out your absolutely retarded ideas

>>280603062

>>280603134
Wow, why don't manga editorial departments do something like this

>>280603134
RIP big Jim, you weren't perfect but the era of your reign was well looked upon

>>280603212
Comics are a dying industry that has barely made anything of not compared to manga

>>280589232
Imagine being this fucking wrong

>>280551741 (OP)
>Wit
>Hiroyuki Sawano
>Yasuko Kobayashi
How did Attack on Titan get such a top-tier staff? They would have fixed the ending if the staff hadn't changed

>>280558839
Bad art fit the early horror feel

>>280603234
It was one of the best

>>280603256
Comics need a guy like him again more than ever.

>>280603415
Damn right.

>>280599197
>>280599288
I wish I could remember where I read thos originally, so I had to ask the xitter robot, but this was always a funny quote to me

>>280603415
They should hire me, I can tell people to make good comics too

>>280603030
Worse.
He got the very same BASEDBOY that was the editor for Gobutun and Rent a girlfriend.
The manga was doomed the very moment that Hack went full power

>>280603476
How did he have such a strong opinion of her character pre-Z? She rarely appeared and her character was just that she's Gyumaos daughter and has a crush on Goku. Like what? Or is he just talking about how she's designed (since he specifically mentions "not wanting to draw her anymore")?

>>280555129
>When Torishima talks about "long term appeal" he's talking about stuff like Dragon Ball, One Piece, Detective Conan, Naruto, Berserk etc

Well that's just proof he has shit fucking taste, good stories come and go and don't drag on for fucking forever. everything you listed is just MCUslop: but Japan.

>>280604184
There's other quotes about how he's not good at romance, and Kid Chi-chi's entire thing was being lovestruck, so maybe that was a factor somehow
Like he didn't know how to utilize or expand on her and forced himself to?

>>280603402
Did WIT drop I because they saw the ending or is it general problem with Magazine's editorial department?
I feel like they often rush for new seasons resulting in massive changes of staff, it's why Blue Lock was done D-team after the second season, why Nanatsu no Taizai changed studio 4 times, Fumetsu no Anata E changed studios and why the latest season of Fire Force looked like shit at first

>>280604769
I thought it was something like the production committee wanted the season done in an unreasonable amount of time

>>280556142
Different times, different way of broadcasting. SnK will reach that post generational appeal because it didnt exist on period in which it could be a cheap show that re-ran for years with no competition from the internet.

>>280551878
Nah

>>280604184
from what I remember, chi-chi only reappeared in the manga so that she could get remarried to Goku -- she wasn't hanging around like Lunch, she literally wasn't there until she showed up to the tournament to pursue Goku

>>280551741 (OP)
It's a TV show, it ended, that's all there is to it. There's nothing to discuss.

>>280552011
Read Squid 8 and tell me authors don't need editors to tardwrangle the shit out of them. They're a necessary evil most of the time.

>>280603212
Because no one in Japan is tall enough.

>>280606006
>>280604769
Kodansha, the Manga's publisher and producer of the show wanted it done at an unreasonable amount of time so WIT passed on the project. They tend to do that a lot which is why as you said, their Anime are constantly changing studios and staff members

He ruined his series. Only leftist animals pretended to like to it spite chuds before immediately moving on, now nobody gives a shit about AOT.

>>280606196
will never reach*

>>280552011
This nigga

>>280569354
If he was really sorry he could write a new ending

>>280560280
BASED

I read manga to be entertained FIRST and FOREMOST. If I want to educate my mind on some obscure topic, I'd read Aristolte, Plato, Nietzsche or Kafka. If I wanted a spiritual awakening, I'd read the Odyssey, Ramayana, Mahabharata or Dao De Jing

I'm NOT reading manga to listen to some Japanese shut-in give me their moral lectures. Death to every manchild and unironic weeb who unironically think their comic made for prepubescent kids are deep

>>280558839
SnK's hook is smart and original. Fighting a never ending horde of titanic naked zombies in a fantasy setting with grappling hooks and swords grabbed a western audience who couldn't get enough of zombie media in the early 2010s. Add in some mystery box writing, strong uniform design for the scouts that was easy to put together for cosplays, and high meme potential and you've got a recipe for success. The series couldn't coast on all of this forever but when it debuted it had a lot of things going for it that helped it stand out.

>>280552011
Editors have good ideas, sometimes they also have bad ideas.

>>280610046
mama always said, an editor is like a box of chocolates

>>280551741 (OP)
Honestly, I think he's right that the series lacks long-term appeal. The bleak ending it had where Eren dies and everyone is doomed in the future removes the long term appeal. It leaves a bitter taste in the reader, and I don't think that's a good thing.

>>280551741 (OP)
You can say the same about Chainsaw Man, Jujutsu Kaisen and all this edgy shit made recently that put shock value over characters

>>280551741 (OP)
Space inside walls = Ukraine/Prussia/Japan
Titans = North Atlantic treaty powers, jewish americans forcing borders of smaller nations to open and to have their nation under threat of absolute military destruction
Eren = Hitler who will reclaim lebensraum and obtain hakkou ichiu

>>280606761
Sucks that behind the scenes things ruined the potential of the anime. They did such an amazing job adapting the manga to anime.

I remember when Snk happened lots of people said it was the end for Jump, specially because the magazine rejected Isayama. Right after Jump released My Hero Academia, Demon Slayer and Jujutsu Kaisen.

>>280560209
And thats all it takes.

Now younger japan generations dont want to upend their gib me dat system because when they turn into boomers themselves they EXPECT to get the same lofty funds and treatment. Not understanding the money simply wont be there, and inflating your way out of it wont give you the same boomer retirement the last generation had.


Every western country is in this same path mind you, its just japan is hitting critical mass first due to their population crisis having been going on for longer.

>>280596740
Yeah, because a story that is nothing but forced plot twist like AoT doesn't want to sell, right?

>>280611698
>because a story that is nothing but forced plot twist like AoT doesn't want to sell, right?
It does want to sell, that's why it does a bunch of twist and turns to keep people buying and reading. You never know what could happen in the story.

>>280612039
And that's also what makes it not have long-term appeal as Torishima said. Once you know what happens, it's over. In series like Dragon Ball, on the other hand, what happens doesn't matter, the characters do.

For being a series with no lasting impact you seem to really think and talk about it senpai.

>>280613306
>you seem to really like to*

>>280583520
>He is right. AoT relied entirely on mystery boxes, "hype" moments and shock value, all of which lose impact quickly
It's true. Once you know the answers to the mysteries the series is ruined forever. Meanwhile you can reread and rewatch Dragon Ball over and over again and it's fun every time. THAT'S what being a timeless classic means.

>>280583520
>>280613859
> AoT relied entirely on mystery boxes, "hype" moments and shock value
I feel lots of shonen these days are doing this.

>>280551741 (OP)
lol

>>280551741 (OP)
>it lacks long term appeal and sales!

Yeah, because the story had an ending. Is that so bad?

>>280615304
If the ending is shit, then yes.
Manga like Gash Bell only lasted 6 years yet and even prior to the sequel it got positive discussion semi-consistently.
Shingeki no Kyojin discussion on the other hand always consist on people shitting on it or memes. Only silver-lining is that it sold obscenely well and that the WIT adaptations end on a good stopping point.

>>280551741 (OP)
trvthvnvke