Thread 281624843

Anime has reached a point where it has no visual impact beyond looking pretty. A random frame from a low-budget 1970s Ashita no Joe has more impact than anything released in the last 10 years.

>>281624843 (OP)
Bla bla bla old good bad new

Bot thread

>>281624906
Anime is more popular than ever now, so, why would criticizing current anime be considered bot behavior?

>>281624864
Yes

>>281624936
Idk, should I think I should cry because my favorite hobby became so hollow and sterile?

>>281624936
>t.

>>281626028
Kek

>>281624843 (OP)
Define "impact". I don't know what you mean.

OP is right, you know?

Why is this thread filled to the brim with literal, unironic tourists like >>281626028 or >>281625899 ?

>>281624843 (OP)
Yes but Osamu Dezaki was the John Ford of anime.

>>281624843 (OP)
>low-budget 1970s Ashita no Joe
Ashita no Joe was the highest profile TV anime ever made at the time with a fuckton of interest in its production being the opposite of low budget

>>281626745
I wouldn't call the original anime particularly high budget, but I'd also say not a whole lot of TV anime were "high budget" either.
Like, it says a lot that a no-name amateur (some fuckhead named "Yoshiyuki Tomino") storyboarded half the show.

>>281626490
That's how it started in the OP so I'm not sure what you're surprised about.

>>281626874
I figured OP invoking Joe instead of Naruto or Cowboy Bebop would've filtered most of these people honestly.

How does /a/ do it? Even with all it's flaws it still manages to maintain a level of quality far above the other media boards.

The competency crisis has utterly gutted the talent pool in not only the anime industry but ALL high-talent-focused industries. That’s why Hollywood can’t make good films anymore. That’s why there’s no such a thing as real AAA games anymore regardless of budget. It’s all the same phenomena. The towering talents of the anime Golden Age disappeared by the end of the 00s, and the stronger next-down tiers died out a decade ago, and this is what’s left. It’s not that China and Korea has risen in talent, it’s that Japan’s talent pool has been lowered closer to their level. It’s frankly ogre, there’s no sugar-coating it.

>>281626867
I know you're joking and know what you're talking about, but I'll use your reply to make things clear for the retards in the audience that won't get this.
High budget production in anime means that the stuff is selected to be as full of great professionals as possible. That's the extend that money does for anime.
Ashita no Joe had basically every single person in Japan who was considered the best at his personal task assigned a role in the production.

>>281626490
Proof?

>>281626947
>post starts about anime
>run out of shit to say after a few words and start talking about fucking video games
Objectively speaking, as a product that is valued on its animation, anime is currently at its "peak output quality". There's a lot of shit and generally, all of it is at worst on-model and stylistically consistent, and at best it's film quality animation that draws comparisons to infamously intensive works like Dragon Ball Z Movie 12 or Redline.
>>281627016
Generally people who make vague posts about a topic and never seek to delve that deeply into it are incredibly unfamiliar with it and just want to "be part of the conversation".

>>281626993
The best animators and staff were at Toei doe? Mushi pro isn't particularly known for high budgets (not that they publish them)

>>281627074
>Objectively speaking, as a product that is valued on its animation, anime is currently at its "peak output quality". There's a lot of shit and generally, all of it is at worst on-model and stylistically consistent, and at best it's film quality animation that draws comparisons to infamously intensive works like Dragon Ball Z Movie 12 or Redline.
I agree. The problem I have with modern anime lies in direction and storyboarding, not animation. Those two intrinsecally linked aspect of production have gone down drastically due to the model of anime pipeline most common nowadays, which is very much fragmented and with many more moving parts, making a tightly-knit workplace formation of the animator-checker-storyboarder-director loop almost impossible and, if present, very weak

And it wasn’t just in Japan. Here’s the opening sequence of Heavy Metal, notice the pure artistry of cinematography, composition, screenplay, etc, in what is otherwise pure schlock.
https://youtu.be/Bla1SIOLMDE

>>281624843 (OP)
I blame flat shading.
Everyone realized that Anime is much more easy to animate if you just don't shade anything or use 3 or less shadow layers. So now everything is brightly colored digitally, there's no contrast on anything, everybody is a colorful blob bobbing around a background that's way more detailed than any character, probably put together by a completely different company, when before the backgrounds were made for the anime.

Is it really any worse? Yes, but it's mostly because tastes have changed. Anime has become synonymous with childish cartoons, nobody has made gritty and high-contrast low-lighting anime in decades at this point. So all of the tooling, all of the experience, all of the resources that goes into making an anime is now lopsided toward this artstyle. The way to make detailed and striking artistry in an artstyle that isn't solid colors and do it on a budget has been lost and nobody is interested in finding it again since good artistry doesn't actually make any more money.

I took this from what I think is the worst looking anime this season and I'm sure someone else will say this looks mediocre compared to something else since it's all a huge race to the bottom.

>>281626993
Not that anon, but this would have been before any of the "big name" guys were considered as such. Mushi Pro was also known to undercut competitors so he was probably paid peanuts.

>>281627116
Toei had already closed down their in-house animation by the time of Joe's production and everyone who was a household name in Toei previous works became a freelancer

>>281627174
Wasn't that made IN Japan?

>>281626867
Tomino was shocked by Dezaki's work on Joe so he went to work under him and learn his style. But he got humbled by Dezaki redrawing his storyboards and ultimately had to accept it's not possible to steal genius. Dezaki was by far the MVP.

>>281626993
The Ashita no Joe anime took a fuckton of shortcuts to cut down on production costs. It was good because the direction and writing were good enough to make up for everything else, but that doesn't mean they didn't try to make it as cheap as possible.

>>281624843 (OP)
TATSUNDA JOEEEEEE

>>281626993
And this is the other problem: Anime, right now, is bleeding industry veterans. It's routine to bring someone in who was an industry powerhouse in the 90's to lead a team of rookies when before you could just hire competent people to do the rookies job instead. There's no money in hiring the best of the best wehn those people can just oversee things and you hire the cheapest outsourced labor or AI to do everything instead.

AI might actually bring a return of these artstyles simply because it's been trained on those former veteran's work.

>>281626457
Many such cases!

>>281627195
>this would have been before any of the "big name" guys were considered as such
Those in the industry knew who was already too good compared to everybody else.
People like Dezaki had already almost a decade of work within the industry, he wasn't a nobody, he was already an episode director for Dororo

Dezaki is literally the best anime director of all time

>>281627258
I like how you can see just how flat everything is and how contrast in colors that aren't pastels is basically dead. I'm sure the same death spiral happened to western cartoons.

>>281627258
Where did it all go so right?

>>281627252
>It's routine to bring someone in who was an industry powerhouse in the 90's to lead a team of rookies when before you could just hire competent people to do the rookies job instead
A lot of those powerhouses of past decades are dead or retired years ago.

>>281627290
Most people in this thread haven't seen a single Dezaki beyond MAYBE Clannad the Movie (incredibly overhated by the way, stop being a VNfag)

>>281627258
In the left column, third from the top rightside
That's an American movie, "Mishima - A Life in Four Chapters", directed by Paul Schrader

>>281627310
And we're not replacing them at all. That's the trend across EVERY industry, not just animation but I'm sure the older anons who have a career can attest to that. We have no replacements for the old guard in any major industry at the moment.

>>281627074
But haven’t you noticed that animators seemed to have forgotten how to draw human anatomy? This is not a stylistic choice, it’s a symptom of the competency crisis.

>>281627184
Chainsawman was gritty and japanese people complained it lacked bright colors.

>>281627354
>we're not replacing them at all
Yes, they've been replaced by people who became powerhouses in the 2000 and beyond

>>281624843 (OP)
1) Not true
2) Retroshit is for depressed nerds

>>281627370
>But haven’t you noticed that animators seemed to have forgotten how to draw human anatomy?
This is a completely retarded statement, it's like I presented Dejiko-chan and said that back then people didn't know how to draw human anatomy

>>281627347
Great movie!

>>281627074
I've said it before, animation is better than ever now, but it doesn't have a real impact because everything around it is too girly and gay. Current anime feels like a product made by and for women.

>>281627258
>>281627347
>>281627452
Why are 14y pseudo-alt teenagers from X so obsessed with abstract art, 3x3, and retro stuff?

>>281627370
>But haven’t you noticed that animators seemed to have forgotten how to draw human anatomy?
Anime has always been stylized.
What you posted was an OVA series focused on those realistic features.
Compare that to the main series, which often looks like a precursor to Code Geass with how it handles anatomy.
>>281627503
>retarded OVAfag whose seen a grand total of five hours of pre-90s anime, and somewhere in the ballpark of 20 minutes of pre-80s anime

>>281627606
becasue it's good and fun.

>>281627606
Because that’s the target audience for pseudo-retards who hate fanservice, lolis, moe, and otaku culture as a whole. They are either women or literal fags.

>>281627503
>everything around it is too girly and gay
Your perception, both of the past and the present, is completely arbitrary
You posted a movie from 1993, the year where the most popular anime in Japan was Sailor Moon

Modern anime just has shitty content. Shitty characters. Shitty stories. Shitty genres. Shitty directing. Shitty music. It's shitty.

t. been watching anime since 1995

>>281627606
I don't know, I'm not a faggot like you who goes to Twitter

>>281627606
you really struck a nerve with this one

>>281627606
Now this is a real touristcore post

>>281627606
Why do you care you retarded geriatric. That movie is popular. Is the average 4cuck user 53 years old or what?

>>281627608
>coping faggot can't accept reality even though it's what he enjoys
You're the worst kind of modern anime fan. You know that anime is gay shit now compared to what it used to be, and you like it that way, but you get mad when someone points it out to you.

>>281627660
I mean, someone watching anime since 1995 could just be watching shit like Yu Yu Hakusho and Dragon Ball, that doesn't actually mean anything.

>>281627660
>Modern anime just has shitty content. Shitty characters. Shitty stories. Shitty genres. Shitty directing. Shitty music. It's shitty.
>t. Hayao Miyazaki, 1986
Actual real interview, I can't find it anymore, can anyone help?

>>281627725
>You know that anime is gay shit now compared to what it used to be
You're living under the delusion that you know everything about anime before a specific date, when I could post an 80s anime that explicitly has gay sex in it every other episode, and it aired on TV in a family time slot.

>>281627184
Ufotable and KyoAni say hello. And they're actually animated, unlike your boomer slop.

>>281627606
average otacult profile

>>281627721
>That movie is popular
In what world Mishima by Schnaider is popular beyond chinephile circles?

NO ONE can watch the great OVAs and movies of the past and come on here with a STRAIGHT FACE and say that the talent level on display is equivalent to the best of today, ie, Ufotable. The TOOLS are certainly better, but the talent of animators, directors, composers, writers, etc, was simply on a different level back then. Everyone knows this, stop being post-irony updoot-farming clowns on /a/ of all places it’s sad.

>>281627116
Yeah that was a gross exaggeration from that smug tard. Dezaki being at the helm and getting a few key people to work on it was the main thing. Most of the staff had passion but were not on the same tier, and many legends did not take part at all.

>>281627725
>You know that anime is gay shit now compared to what it used to be
It used to be trans, not merely gay

>>281627809
If you think that something like picrel isn't on par with the great works of the past it means you don't even like those great works of the past, you like the idea of having better taste and making arbitrary statements on shit you don't understand

>>281627650
Sailor Moon wasn't more popular than DBZ or Doraemon, but even if it were, it was just an anime tied to its demographic. Not all directors were trying to make female-oriented crap like they do now; there was something for everyone.

>>281627809
>but the talent of animators, directors, composers, writers, etc
Not really no.
Maybe occasionally the directors were better, but people vastly overhype the quality of a lot of OVAs.
Especially in regards to writing- most OVAs are not well written. A large number of them are really just excuses to sell designworks for a model kit or a figure.

>>281627917
>Not all directors were trying to make female-oriented crap like they do now
What the fuck does this even mean

>>281627886
Your image is trash tho

>>281627606
Teenage posers quintessentially. They think it makes them speical but obviously, they are completely irrelevant.

>>281627766
>gay couples have always existed, which means gay marriage has always been the norm
Retard.

>>281627959
I have a theory that cannot be proven that the vast majority of old OVAs were made as part of some Yakuza moneylaundering scheme.

>>281626457
You can tell the shit on the left is new because it still looks gay and doesn’t measure up in atmosphere/painted background.

>>281624843 (OP)
Well no shit, it became pure slop after it went mainstream in the west
And dont worry, it will get worse

>>281627982
You should know, sissy.

>>281627917
Female-oriented crap is pseudo-intellectual cuckshit that you’re defending so much.

>>281628112
>You can tell the shit on the left is new
If you're a jii-san.

>>281628053
>gay marriage has always been the norm
Gay marriage isn't the norm today, it's just legal, what the fuck are you trying to say

>>281628053
>>gay couples have always existed, which means gay marriage has always been the norm
Literally not stated. And it wasn't the fucking norm at all in 1981 Japan.
The show I'm talking about ran for a full year, and one of its two main characters was a grown man who was so sexually powerful that he got nearly every male character below the age of 30 in bed with him, and that's not even entirely comedy as the show ends up becoming about his ongoing relationship with a man who acts his married spouse.

>>281628112
>You can tell the shit on the left is new
KEK who will tell him

>>281627886
Too much brightness.

Anime is the only medium that has nearly 100% artistic freedom. It makes the leftoids mad because of sexualization, but at the same time it makes the right-wing Christians mad because of satanic content, effeminate men, etc.

How does /a/ do it? In spite of all its flaws it maintains a level of quality far above all the other media boards.

>>281628166
It's the norm in the sense that any gay couple who wants to get married can do so now, but that doesn't mean it was common back then, just like girly anime wasn't the norm in the 80s and 90s. They existed, of course, but they didn't dominate the entire market.

>>281627606
>had to search for the movie on Twitter to find some random tranny that liked it
Embarrassing

>>281628278
>the world is split in two, Democrats and Republicans
>what do you mean the rest of the world doesn't follow this narrow separation of views?

>>281624843 (OP)
Modern anime is atrocious.

>>281628356
>girly anime wasn't the norm in the 80s and 90s
>they didn't dominate the entire market
You are a complete retard

JOEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>281628278
It has almost no artistic freedom, it’s just that the laws that govern artistic expression in Japan are different than in the West. For example, they’re not controlled by the laws of feminism and diversity, but the West is not controlled by moral law which is iron-clad in all JP media. Whenever a Westerner notices a failed concept, lack of vision, failure to capitalize on narrative opportunities in anime, it will almost always be because of Japan’s absolute moral law requirement.

>>281628278
>but at the same time it makes the right-wing Christians mad because of satanic content, effeminate men
This board is full of fags and trannies, while at the same time everyone is a radical racist, so I doubt the right wing really cares about that.

Old good, new bad

>>281627886
Look at your pic and then OP's
You just confirmed his point

>>281628356
>see cute girls and moe art
>Immediately think of faggots and gay shit
I think it says more about you than the art itself.

>>281628495
>they’re not controlled by the laws of feminism and diversity
>the West is not controlled by moral law which is iron-clad in all JP media
>Japan’s absolute moral law requirement
Actual schizo nonsense

>>281627184
>or use 3 or less shadow layers
OP's image has 3 tone shadows. People sometimes post anime that have more and I have no idea how people even like how that shit looks. It's way too busy. Same shit with those styles that abuse highlights and it just looks like characters are covered in pimples. Being high effort doesn't make things good. If it did then people would be sucking off One Piece. Which, normalfags do, but anyone with a brain realizes it looks like shit.

>>281628495
>Whenever a Westerner notices a failed concept, lack of vision, failure to capitalize on narrative opportunities in anime
You talk like Western fiction isn’t the most mid thing in the world. It’s amazing that you feel the need to make up a Japanese law, or else your superiority complex won’t let you admit that Japanese media are simply better and have more freedom than any westoid crap.

>>281628519
If you watched Heike Monogatari you would realize...
No, you wouldn't, you're retarded

>>281628525
Name one, literally just one, anti-villain in anime. I’ll wait so take your time.

>oldnegros
>manimefaggots
Meh.

>>281628607
Brown

>>281628617
Eat shit. Oh wait that's what you like you trashfire apologist

>>281628705
The essential /tv/queer image

>>281628651
>anti-villain
Let's be clear and not move the goalpost later
Do you mean an antagonistic character that has virtuous characteristics? Someone who acts in a morally heroic manner while fighting against the protagonist's goal?

>>281628705
>"Applys"
>"Angery"
>calling anyone brown

>>281628705
forgot your letterbox transflag

>>281628607
For example, have you ever wondered why villains in anime are all over-the-top comically evil? Because they have to be in order to allow the protagonists to kill them, otherwise their hands are tied. JP moral law states that when someone bows their head to you and begs forgiveness you must forgive them, therefore, a villain may never ever do that. If a villain does beg forgiveness, it’s only so that the villain can try and backstab the protagonist as they are turning away, thereby satisfying all moral requirements.

I want an Ashita no Joe thread but not like this...

>>281628705
Yes, only a brown person would have written something with so many spelling mistakes and retarded conclusions

>>281627606
Why are you going to X?

>>281628731
Sorry I don't speak stupid

>>281628780
>have you ever wondered why villains in anime are all over-the-top comically evil
What fucking anime are you watching

>>281628420
Keep copying, faggot. You'll never have anything like the Fatal Fury OVAs or Cobra these days, because all current anime is made to make pathetic faggots like you who hate themselves worship fictional women instead of trying to improve themselves.

>>281628813
Modernshit threads slide you off the catalog

>>281628888
>pathetic faggots like you who hate themselves worship fictional women instead of trying to improve themselves
projecting, I see

>>281628888
>worship fictional women instead of trying to improve themselves.
Yeah, I should go outside and marry a random 30y whore who’s been used by 100 guys, have kids with her, and waste half my life raising them because she’ll be the 0.1% exception that won’t end up in divorce. Now that’s an improvement.

>>281627379
Which are far fewer, which is why we're seeing Anime, Cartoons, Movies, Animation all turn to absolute shit. You need to have as many if not more powerhouses to maintain a healthy industry, if your population pyramid of competent people is a line, your industry implodes. Which is what we're seeing with dogshit like >>281627258

>>281628958
I accept your concession.

>>281628604
>Which, normalfags do, but anyone with a brain realizes it looks like shit.
And here's really the problem, if it sells why improve? Other than the fact you're robbing the future of experience that would be needed to eventually make things that don't look like shit.

>>281627775
>unlike your boomer slop.
That "boomer slop" took more experience and man-hours to make than 99% of shows made this decade and was made for cheaper. Oh cool you have two studios whose talent hasn't retired yet. You should have an industry of talented people to have a healthy industry, not two or three fucking studios.

>>281628813
People only respond to deliberately inflammatory retro threads. It sucks.

this is not a retro thread, it's a /tv/ tourist thread

>>281629137
Most tourist threads are imbeciles who make these threads for politics, not because they like anything

>>281629189
Go to reddit, faggot. You can get your curated opinion hall there.

>>281629014
>Yeah, I should go outside and marry a random 30y whore who’s been used by 100 guys
I never said that. Old anime focused on manly greatness, but it didn't tell you that you should marry worthless women. I would even say that women were put in their place much more often in old anime than they are now.

I will always have more respect for an obnoxious retrofag who is one for retarded reasons than a pathetic modern anime conformist with generic industry-mandated taste.

>>281629042
based tradie anon. Most industries now are a revolving door of either outsourced labor or absolute amateurs because they can be paid less on paper, but end up doing jobs so bad that it costs more in the long run.

We see it in Anime, now. Think of how much money the Berserk reboot cost compared to how much damage it did to the company's reputation and branding, not to mention to Berserk as a property.

>>281629262
Why would I go to reddit to get the vapid political takes of nincompoops when you dolts bring that shit here where nobody even asked for it?

>>281628753
No, that includes anti-heroes which there are a few examples of in anime. I mean proper villains who are pursuing villainous goals, but which have significant virtuous traits which are major component of their characters. To make up a few examples to help illustrate: let’s say Muzan is running a medical company which is at the forefront of Japan’s disease treatment and drug development industry which he personally subsidizes to ensure the most people possible get help, protects the researchers, and clears away political blockages to expanding it. He’s still the same self-centered asshole who wants nothing more than to slaughter the Demon Slayers and attain sun immunity, he still goes around finding the worst assholes to empower as demons, and in general remains someone who must be defeated for good to prevail. BUT, he has a personal deep-seated bugaboo about disease and considers it a personal affront which he will personally stamp out. Or let’s say All For One isn’t just taking in orphans which he’s interested in for their quirks, but ALL orphans and abused children , taking care of problems Japanese society isn’t normally equalized to deal with. He’s still Satan as per the late manga, BUT his childhood trauma sublimates into a compulsion to taking care of unfortunate children. Japan simply doesn’t do this, because it would break JP moral law. Japan CAN’T do a character like, say, Omni-Man, who’s not exactly an anti-villain but still has too many positive traits. Now that I’ve taught you about JP moral law, I want you to pay attention to it in action and you will see it everywhere in anime.

>>281629279
See, and that's the dichotomy modern conformists want to stick this discussion in: Nobody ever said good new stuff doesn't get made. But when the majority of new stuff is observably inferior to even mediocre old stuff, and most of the industry vets of then are the ones carrying industry now, that's the sign of an unhealthy industry on the verge of collapse. That's not "Old good", that's "This current model is unsustainable and we're seeing the cracks in it now".

Of course modern anime conformists always try to frame it as "old good" because they can't defend the piss coming out every season in any window except that.

>>281624843 (OP)
>than anything released in the last 10 years.
no. I bet AOT probably had something cool even though I don't watch it.

>>281629333
No one cares. Go to another thread.

>>281627184
I blame object and overlay gradients. You're not gonna have striking imagery if the entire frame is processed to kill color and value contrast. Studios want to look "slick" and more like filmed live-action footage but shit's just fucking retarded you're working with flat drawings stop fighting your fucking medium what the fuck.

>>281624843 (OP)
SYBAU

>>281629418
that's a good point, as well: The chase for "cinematic" shots has robbed the value of making artistic shots. Mostly done by people who don't have any knowledge or skillsets in cinema in the first place so even if it were a live-action cinematic shot, it would look bad.

>>281629279
You don't need to be obnoxiously old good new bad or be obsessed with new shit and refuse to watch old stuff.
>>281629376
>Nobody ever said good new stuff doesn't get made
Plenty of people do. And they're also likely to be the ones using OVAs as the bar for older anime because that's all they bother watching.

>>281629358
Itachi?
Meruem?
Char Aznable?
You really love making stuff up just to defend your LGBT capeshit gay comics, huh?

>>281629457
>Plenty of people do
No they don't, they always frame the conversation as "You just think New Bad Old Good" and never about the fact that the people who made the old weren't special people in their industry but are now stars now because of how few of them there are and how few people have replaced them.

You're doing it now by trying to make it about OVAs and not the fact that the people who worked on it even as a regular show were simply never replaced by anyone competent and it wouldn't be possible to make it as detailed now as then because of logistics.

Instead, you're focusing on the OVA part which is just saying "That doesn't count, and that wouldn't count even if it wasn't, in fact nothing counts" which is dodging the question altogether. Isn't surprising because these threads always devolve into people cherrypicking and others contorting themselves to expertly dodge it the best instead of the actual discussion about the industry being creatively bankrupt.

>>281627678
You use Mastodon, so shut up fag.

>>281629457
>Plenty of people do. And they're also likely to be the ones using OVAs as the bar for older anime because that's all they bother watching.
Yeah but who cares? Old OVAs are still more detailed, had more big names working on it, and cost less objectively than new OVAs and new shows for that matter.
Using an OVA doesn't invalidate anything. Even the regular TV shows are comparable in quality to it even if you can make nitpicks about the animation being sketchy. Meanwhile, Berserk aired on TV and every single channe's big staple are cookiecutter isekais.

>>281628853
X is /pol/ kosher now, where you been?

>>281629519
>Itachi
Antihero.
>Meruem
Villain who was in a process of doing a face-turn.
>Char
Not a villain, like how most opponents in sports anime aren’t villains, just antagonists.

>>281629457
>you can't post OVAs even though they used to be half the market! You should only post low-budget weekly anime from back then so I can compare it to current high-budget seasonal anime!
You fags are pathetic.

>>281624843 (OP)
Go into what you mean by impact, in what way? Emotionally? Is it mainly because of the older style with solid and rough sketchy cel linework? Define what you mean a little bit by that because it's too vague right now.

>>281629606
>Even the regular TV shows are comparable in quality to it
This is the kind of thing people say that makes people know they have barely watched any older anime.
>>281629752
>high budged seasonal anime
I don't believe you actually believe this. OVAs also had looser schedules and so they could spend more time on them.
>>281629543
You are delusional and obviously barely ever read these kinds of threads because 90% of the time it's "why does this new TV anime not look like *insert one of a dozen OVAs that people are obsessed with*". People default to that because it eventually always ends up there. If you act like a caricature then people will treat you like one.

>>281624843 (OP)
>pseudfags hate prettiness and like ugliness

>>281629450
Where's Decode Taller?
Where's Tech Genus Halberd Cannon?
Does anyone have that image of Decode Talker doing The Pose™? I couldn't find it.

>>281628780
>when someone bows their head to you and begs forgiveness you must forgive them
Have you ever watched/read Hokuto no Ken? Lmfao it's only the villains who don't regret or apologize for anything they ever did that get any amount of respect, and they die with all those who did.

>>281629827
The rawness of the drawing just made the events look more impactful. You could feel the pain of the punches despite the limited animation because the animators were more concerned with showing you that than showing you how aesthetically pleasing the characters looked.

>>281629457
Comparing the bar for the best stuff is obviously more interesting than the bar for mediocre stuff.

>>281629279
I have no respect for both and i have no respect for you. In fact i have no respect towards 99% of posters in this thread

What caused the creation of Mauritania again? Feels like someone fumbled their job

>>281630798
Incredible direction. Dezaki could make an unmoving drawing show more emotion than most directors can do with a fluidly animated scene.

>>281629896
There have been a lot of notoriously high-budget seasonal anime in recent years, even from manga that very few people knew about before their adaptation, but even those adaptations look weak compared to any decent OVA from the 80s or 90s, which is why fags like you seethe so much when they are posted.

>>281628495
>japan bad!
>westernshit good!

>>281631298
>seethe
Whatever makes you feel better, anon. Pointing out someone being retarded isn't seething. If only you were just pretending to be retarded instead of having actual mental illness. Can't wait to watch more "masterpiece" OVAs only for them to be glorified sub-B movies that last for 3 episodes. If only those people had put time and effort into something actually good.

>>281631427
>uh oh, the OVAs you retrofags post are way too good compared to the current seasonals! Stop posting them!
>actually, those OVAs are trash, hehe, nothing good came out of them
You're a faggot who doesn't even know what you believe in. You just want to antagonize the “muh evil boomers” because you're too retarded to think beyond that.

>>281630928
Funny, you sound like a pitiable faggot however.

This applies to manga as well. And it has a lot to do with the audience itself. We live in an age where everyone is impatient, so instead of thinking more deeply about the presentation, artists simply try to be as efficient as possible.

Demon Slayer and Solo Leveling are perfect examples of this.

>>281631615
Who are you quoting?

>>281632087
Suck my dick, faggot.

>>281632123
Sorry, I'm not into that kind of thing. There's nothing wrong with it though.

>>281630798
Bless this show

>>281624864
>old good bad new
in the context of this sterile medium, yes of course.

>>281624843 (OP)
cool examples and comparisons bro

>>281630698
You don't really expect to see a comp with every single Obari pose ever made, do you?

>>281632474
I really like the first opening, I even learned the whole lyrics without even knowing Japanese.

>>281630798
Is there any writings on how they achieved the lineart? I assume it was done by pressing down really hard on a grease pencil, but again that's just an assumption. Tiger Mask also had a similar thing going on with its lineart.

>>281624843 (OP)
Digital shit is sterile, more news at 11.

>>281633410
It's one of the best OPs out there. Distilled passion.

>>281633419
It's probably charcoal.

>>281633419
>>281633668
Animation cels are pretty finicky in the media they accept, I doubt a TV production would risk going outside the standard vinyl acrylic paints. More likely they just had particular brushes for it.

>>281630798
>what you mean by impact
>impactful
High level critique here.

>>281633722
The 60s and early 70s does have quite a bit of experimentation going on with the materials allowed.

>>281628202
Patalliro?

>>281634025
You got it in one.

>>281633419
It was a technique seen in basically every 1970s anime. I have no idea how they did it.

>>281633658
>NIKUI AN CHIKUSHOU NO KAOMEGAKE
You can feel the anger behind those lyrics. This would be the song I would listen to before getting into a fight.

>>281634383
They look like two different media.

>>281628651
>>281629358
Ashram
Rosine
Mozgus
Dozle
Garou
Lady Eboshi
Kira Yoshikage
Pucci
Funny Valentine
Kotomine Kirei
Mr. Braun
Tahomaru
Satan (Devilman)
Nowak
>Meruem
>Villain who was in a process of doing a face-turn.
What are you talking about? Mereum was planning to enslave humanity and use them as food. Just because he's come to respect some humans doesn't change that.
>Char
>Not a villain, like how most opponents in sports anime aren’t villains, just antagonists.
Char is totally a villain. He commits evil acts to further his goals and was planning to destroy the Earth. Okay, if that's how you want to play it
>Omni-Man
Villain who does a face-turn.

>>281628651
>>281629358
Ashram
Rosine
Mozgus
Dozle
Garou
Lady Eboshi
Kira Yoshikage
Pucci
Funny Valentine
Kotomine Kirei
Mr. Braun
Tahomaru
Satan (Devilman)
Nowak
>>281629638
>Meruem
>Villain who was in a process of doing a face-turn.
What are you talking about? Meruem was planning to enslave humanity and use them as food. Just because he's come to respect some humans doesn't change that.
>Char
>Not a villain, like how most opponents in sports anime aren’t villains, just antagonists.
Char is totally a villain. He commits evil acts to further his goals and was planning to destroy the Earth. Okay, if that's how you want to play it
>Omni-Man
Villain who does a face-turn.

>>281633510
>tfw there was a time when even moe characters used to have facial dimensions/depth
Anime used to be art.

>>281633972
Examples? I know that the 60s and 70s were generally experimental, and especially with the oil crises in the 70s it wouldn't surprise me that animators would be try to find alternatives, but animation cels are sheets of plastic and there are physical limits to what will stick to it. I can't see charcoal working at all, for example.
I would also expect unusual materials to be visually distinct from standard animation paint, and I don't really notice that with Joe. It looks like black paint with a rougher application. My guess is that they're using something like calligraphy brushes.

>>281633419
They just used special copy machines that could transfer black and white artwork directly to cels.

>>281635051
I suggested grease pencils since that generally adheres well to nonporous surfaces and I've seen people that draw on cels as a hobby use them.

Also, as far as experimental stuff goes, Sabu to Ichi is a good example I think. The usage of heavy shadows and negative space is fantastic and probably one of the few shows I'd say is better precisely because it's in black and white. It's also Rintaro's directorial debut iirc.

>>281624843 (OP)
You're cherry picking ashita no joe, which no other anime made before the 1990s surpasses, except Ashita no Joe 2

I watched my share of 70s and 80s anime and they're not good by today standards and not worth watching today. Ashita no Joe is one of the very few that you should watch

>>281635124
Ah, that makes more sense. For some reason I thought that kind of technology came later, because I forgot that 101 Dalmations came out in 61.

>>281635248
Did "today standards" require you to be an undiscerning faggot?

>>281635248
>I watched my share of 70s and 80s anime and they're not good by today standards and not worth watching today.

Today's standards are what people are pissed off about though.

>>281624843 (OP)
Modern anime focuses too much on minute details instead of proper cinematography

>>281627886
Based heike monogatari enjoyer. Most of the uncultured swine here wouldn't appreciate this story or it's presentation.

Where did it all go so horribly wrong?

>>281627886
Anons here like talking about old anime they didn't watch and don't plan to watch at all. It makes them feel superior for some reason.

>>281637950
KEK

>>281638003
Shut the fuck up you zoomer nigger, it is not about my superiority this is what you retarded underage and b8 kids dont get.
Old anime vs new anime is not like your JJK vs Demon Slayer shounen of the season slop fight wher the kid with the "superior" taste prevails.It is simply righteous rage at the absolute state of the industry since i have watched like 90+% of the best shit and they are not making anything good anymore you dumb turbo-faggot.

>>281638607
i get the feeling you don't have many friends

>>281624843 (OP)
Thanks for explaining what the fuck "visual impact" is supposed to mean . It would have been really annoying if you were ambiguous.

When did pre-2000s anime become the dumping ground for retarded newfags, tourists and crossboarding faggots who don't even watch anime on a serious level, but demand you to listen to them explain why the medium's dead/dying?

It's embarrassing sharing my hobby with the "I started watching anime during COVID but let me tell you why modern anime sucks" crowd.

>>281627184
Get your head out of your ass and stop watching movies and Sunrise OVAs.

Most cel-era anime used flat shading. The vast majority even. That's been the fucking norm since the medium's inception.

Stuff with 3+ tone shading has always been the exception, the mark of a high budget work, and almost ALL anime with 3+ tone shading were slide shows, or, during action scenes, they heavily reduced the shading and coloring.

>>281626028
Why is he fucking crying???

>>281627184
>>281639434
>muh complex multi-tone shading

>>281626028
>t.

anime has fallen

>>281638607
>is not like your JJK vs Demon Slayer shounen of the season slop fight wher
I've noticed this but why does the OLD GOOD NEW BAD crowd always circle back to battle shonen as their reference/comparison for everything?

You people are fucking tourists.

>>281624864
Yes, but that's really reductive. We should work to better understand exactly why this is the case.

>>281639587
post anything from this season that's worth watching

>>281634383
the new VN is just as bad

>>281639670
Puniru's great. Feels like if you stuck Di Gi Charat and Urusei Yatsura in a blender with a bunch of 90s/early 2000s kodomo anime, but in the current year. Kind of reminds me of those bizarre late 90s romcoms like Tenshi ni Narumon

>>281634383
>season 1, season 2
>same studio
Disingenuous twat.
They're not different seasons, To Heart: Remember my Memory is a shitty anime-original sequel. It's universally shat on by anyone who watches it as non-canon.
The first To Heart was an adaption of an acclaimed visual novel.
Completely different directors, completely different art director, completely different animation directors.
The 1999 To Heart literally had Shichirou Kobayashi as its fucking art director, dude's known for drawing some of the best fucking artwork in the medium, fucking Berserk, Castle of Cagliostro, Space Cobra, Ashita no Joe 2, etc. Compare 1999 To Heart to other romance SoLs in the late 90s and the other romance SoLs will look just as mediocre barring HareKano.

Shichirou went on to direct/do the art in a load of digital-era anime too.

>>281639683
Dumb secondary opinion. The entire remake is ANIMATED. The original VN is entirely 2D stills and character sprites over backgrounds.
To say one is superior than the other is stupid because at that point they're completely different mediums for storytelling.

>>281639857
It looks like a cheap fan remake that was made with koikatsu kek

>>281639923
There's nothing about the 1999 original that screams "expensive".
I fucking love To Heart with every inch of my soul but the art's the kind of thing any Japanese 16 year old in the late 90s could have drawn.
You're picking at straws, there's so much better looking original visual novels versus their terrible modern counterparts you could have picked.

At least the To Heart remake's an evolution of the genre rather than the same thing but with shittier CGs. More fucking effort goes into 3D animating and 3D modeling a 30 hour visual novel and it's locations than just drawing 10-20 backgrounds, a handful of variations on sprites for clothes and expressions, and a handful of CGs.

But you're a tourist who's never read the original, watched the 1999 anime, or has plans on reading the remake so I'm not sure why I'm responding to you. You're a /v/edditor using it to fuel your underage OLD GOOD NEW BAD war.

>>281639979
>1999
1997*
Brainfart

>>281639372
LOL wholeheartedly agree as a millennial

>281639979
>I fucking love To Heart with every inch of my soul but the art's the kind of thing any Japanese 16 year old in the late 90s could have drawn.
>More fucking effort goes into 3D animating and 3D modeling a 30 hour visual novel and it's locations than just drawing 10-20 backgrounds, a handful of variations on sprites for clothes and expressions, and a handful of CGs.
Yeah this guy is a fucking poser. Fuck off retard.

>>281639534
Truly it is the golden age of anime.

>>281640092
Nah, fuck you.
The art wasn't the main selling point of the 1997 visual novel. You're allowed to love things without thinking they're objectively perfect.
There's better looking visual novels visually, from the late 90s, like Be-Yond.

most anime are shit just like most video games, most movies and most manga. Thing is, for the best anime that came out recently I think they're better for the most part than the best that came out last century.

>>281639979
>a handful of CGs
Around 150 cgs, anon. 150 hand drawn CGs, and a very high quality opening animation.

Meanwhile the 3d version uses a bunch of premade assets and copies the hand drawn scenes 1 for 1. The only effort went into the 3d animations, but it looks very average. It's a gash crab.

>>281639449
You might find it hard to believe but the original video is just as embarrassing as the edita.

>>281640143
>Around 150 cgs, anon. 150 hand drawn CGs
With the way that people talk like and fetishize hand drawn art, you'd think 150 hand drawn CGs is some kind of monumental achievement or something; Most CGs in a visual novel can be cranked out within a day individually. Two-three days, sometimes a week if it's a more complex CG. Pass that off between two artists like in To Heart's case, and give the BGs to the graphics designer and you you literally have all of your art for a visual novel within 2-3 months.
I get that drawing is a lost art since most people do not draw recreationally anymore, but jesus christ when I was sitting next to the hispanic girl in class circa 2003 she was doodling high quality shoujo fanart for Inuyasha and Fruits Basket and shit that looked like it could have been promo art in the span of 2 days. And I'd imagine in fucking Japan of all places you'd have upwards of at least 5+ kids in a single class just fucking doodling anime/vidya fanart in their spare time in the 90s.

The entire point of the "general" manga artstyle that most anime and visual novels use as a baseline is that it's relatively easy to mass produce while retaining less cartoony style (at least, less cartoony in comparison to Hanna-Barbera stuff, which was common in America when the "manga" artstyle was finding it's legs in Japan). It's why the anime industry can pump out anime with thousands of frames in a single episode.

There isn't some secret, magical sauce or skill that only "experts" can use for drying very high quality anime art or CGs. A lot of these people who drew visual novels in the 1990s were random otaku who honed their craft over time, not people who took highly specialized courses in high school and college.

is anyone else tired of this bait wars
"Ohh look your shit sucks mine dosen't, now fight among yourselves"
Nah fuck you op, i reject your bad faith premise

>>281640799
>drying
drawing*

>>281624843 (OP)
Second most overrated mango of all time.

>281640799
This retard zoomer is the most ignorant motherfucker itt

>>281640913
>-oomer
You are 25 at most.

>>281624843 (OP)
This really says more about how fantastic Ashita no Joe is than how bad modernslop is.

>>281639534
/a/ will fucking hate it but this level of production is thanks to investment done by western investors into the japanese media like Netflix or Crunchyroll

>>281640799
I don't know what you're trying to argue. Do you or do you not agree that the 3d looks cheap?

And 2d just looks so much worse when it's translated into 3d. 2d designs were originally developed with flat faces. Creating them with 3d depth looks completely bastardized.

>>281641233
It's pretty retarded to critique 3D on stills when the 3D animation is, you know, animation.
It certainly would look cheap if they didn't move and it was exactly the same as the sprites or CG, but it isn't. It's animated with a degree of depth that isn't possible via basic sprites or barely animated CGs.
You probably haven't played either version anyways.

>>281641296
I played the original. In the original Japanese language.
Funny that you keep falling back on ad hominem because your argument is shit.

>>281641316
>you keep
I mean, I'm obviously another person, I just think it's dumb to compare literal stills of something animated to actual 2D stills.
Also,
>I played the original. In the original Japanese language.
Considering the absolute state of this thread, I doubt anyone here has much investment in anything Japanese beyond the basic ragebait they saw on twitter.

>anime has reached such a low point that even an animated intro from 90s vidya has more soul than contemporary works.
https://youtu.be/LCJUoHNCe3w

>>281631415
>reading comprehension hard!

>>281641361
If you think bad outsourced 3d animation is better than something passionately hand drawn then I'm surprised you even have the mental capacity to read VNs. Why didn't you just watch the anime adaption?

>>281637950
>CRAPPA dorohedoro in the "this good" part

>>281641381
Looks mediocre, and barely animated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210R0ozmLwg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4na2opArGY&

Here's two actual soulful top tier openings, within a year of eachother, with music by the same band even.

>>281627606
>she/her
>looks like megamind

>>281641484
>If you think bad outsourced 3d animation is better than something passionately hand drawn
I mean, 3D animation can also be "passionately made", just saying "this is passionately made" means nothing. Like, are the openings to the first few JoJo TV anime suddenly disqualified as being "passionate" since they were both 3D CG and outsourced?
And it's really funny how you got so mad about "muh ad hominem", some real faggot shit to get mad about, and then half your post is insults and a different logical fallacy is occupying the other half.

Oh man, I can't believe it, Higurashi is soulless and devoid of passion because every version released uses outsource sprites, backgrounds, music, and voice acting. Dumbest shit ever.

>>281624843 (OP)
>Anime has reached a point where [schizo rambling]
This thread will reach post limit, as usual

>>281641484
>passionately
Not anime, but High Guardian Spice was made with a lot of passion from the creators and it's arguably the worst animated product ever made.
Passion means nothing compared to hard work.
Of course, people who work the hardest are the most passionate ones, but that's beside the point.

>>281641381
Man I miss Megaman

>>281641233
>Do you or do you not agree that the 3d looks cheap?
It's anime art; I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Most visual novels are made with the budget of a few packs of ramen.

If anything it's the more profitable, higher budget visual novel studios that were successful throughout the 90s/2000s that are swapping to 3D animation. There's nothing really "expensive" or "costly" about 2D CGs, they only cost as much as the artists' time.

The To Heart remake's not a direct translation of 2D -> 3D, it's a complete remake from the ground up.

>>281639372
>Everyone I don't agree with is a newfag/tourist/crossboarder/etc
High quality post.

>>281642220
Considering OP thinks his screenshot is "a random frame", then yes, he is a newfag, tourist, crossboarder, etc.

Hating modern things is not a substitute for a lack of personality.

>>281642270
Ashita no Joe is a fucking masterpiece. Can't say that about any anime coming out these days.

>>281642324
You can't say that about the vast majority of anime regardless of era. Unless you're one of those retards who hand out the word "masterpiece" like candy to anything old that vaguely excites you.

>>281641103
It's been 55 years since the release of the AnJ anime, kinda suprised nobody tried to make a remake

>>281624843 (OP)
Can't spell "Ashita no Joe" without shit.

>>281642370
Yet the old times had quite a few undisputed ones. You're going to admit Joe is a masterpiece but say stuff like Ie Naki Ko is not and it's just something that vaguely excites me? Get the fuck out of here.

>>281642414
They kind of did with Megalo Box and its second season, Nomad.
It's the 50th Anniversary anime project for Ashita no Joe.

It's not a literal remake (it's its own universe) but it's sort of a soft-retelling of Ashita no Joe in a near sci-fi future with a few twists. First season's kind of alright but the sequel, Nomad, is phenomenal.

>>281642446
Joe is one of the greatest anime of all time.
It's still not a masterpiece. Masterpiece used to mean something.

>>281642484
In the context of anime shows it is a masterpiece.

>>281642513
Masterpiece =/= Show I Like

>>281642538
Word meaning =/= definition I like

>>281642556
Glad you agree with me!

>>281642324
>Can't say that about any anime coming out these days
You could say the same about anything that aired with Joe

>>281642571
Sadly I don't.

>>281642484
NTA, I would consider AnJ a masterpiece, if it wasn't for the stupid ass Hariamo fight, I know it was to show that Joe didn't become complacent but instead has Punch Drunk but it could have been executed A LOT better

Dezaki is the best director ev-

>>281642585
That's S2, beside Dezaki most of the staff is different from S1, thus I consider it a different anime

>>281642578
I'd much rather watch Attack No. 1 which is shoujo's take on a Joe style work than anything from today.

>>281642622
>shoujo's take on a Joe style work
The only thing Attack no.1 and Joe have in commong is being spokon, what the fuck does "joe style work" mean
Also I like Attak no.1, but to say that it's superior to anything made today is clearly a forced response by someone who really doesn't want to lose a retarded argument

>>281642675
Stop being an intentionally obtuse retard. You're the one sounding forced here. Nope, I love Attack No. 1 and believe it is simply better than shit coming out these days despite its rough edges. I don't think it's so hard to understand.

>>281642736
>and believe it is simply better than shit coming out these days
What are you watching "these days" to come to this conclusion?

Why is it that when an old anime is rough around the edges, it's "sovlful" but when a modern anime is extremely well animated and has good visuals, it's "forced"?

>>281642756
Well what should I watch huh? Nothing seems to have a remotely similar spirit in writing and style, it's completely detached from what I like from these old works. But if you're such a modern anime connoisseur that's seeing something in there I don't go ahead and share.

>>281642825
Old things are incapable of being bad. If I accept old things can be bad, the persona and identity I project of myself will fall apart.

>>281642736
I must be a superior bein: I can both like Attack no. 1 and Puniru wa Kawaii Smile.

>>281642890
Good for you I guess. I'm not interested in that thing at all.