Where am I supposed to draw the line in my life between reasonable and unreasonable expectations of sex in marriage? I admit it, I watch porn more than I should but idk if that's all my own fault or if she's not really meeting my "needs"; I like 2-3 times a week, I like her wearing thongs/g strings, I like different positions, oral, anal etc but nothing rough, no weird role-playing, no porn during sex etc but she kinda makes me feel bad for wanting anything other than piv missionary. She's still down for 2-3 times a week, but isn't particularly kinky. Im not ready to blame all this on her, maybe im just a dumb gooner, but I mean I've always been into the hot stuff and probably will all my life

Is this the type of thing I can even negotiate or no? Is sex, even in marriage, still a "take what you can get" type thing? Or is it reasonable to be like "hey, this is what im into, we're gonna be together our entire lives so you might as well get used to more kinky stuff, we need to satisfy each other"?

Or should I just accept that I'll never truly have that stuff and be happy with my piv missionary the rest of our lives?

>>33192865 (OP)
You arent wrong or a bad person to want someone to be sexually compatible wjth. If she shames you for your tastes...

>>33192886
she doesn't shame me, she just.. doesn't pretend to be into the same stuff as me ig and acts like it's a chore. she has made comments like "you get this stuff from porn don't you"

and i mean maybe, but what am i supposed to do about that? if im into it, then im into it regardless of how i came across. should i like, try to go pron free for a whole year and see where im at in my tastes? or is that dumb and she should be expected to play along more?

Legally speaking you're not entitled to anything you can't convince her of unless you threaten to break up with her. So what you're actually entitled to is a matter of opinion everyone thinks different. Though men and women will fall on obvious ends of the spectrum.

>>33192914
You should say chad yes and tell that bitch to get into the hot pink fishnet bodysuit and start tonguing her ass with abandon. She will like it if you're in control

i mean most ethics/moral/religious people say it should be seen as a sacred act so you're probably in the wrong in this case, and if you think all that is stupid, just know that most of the guys who are in the opposite corner are lowlifes, not all, but most

>>33192865 (OP)
i was about to report your post for porn before I saw it was bread lol

>>>33192925
you might as well get used to more kinky stuff
>we need to satisfy each other
>should be expected to play along more
>doesn't pretend to be into the same stuff as me
>acts like it's a chore
This is not going to work and you know it. Yes, it is a chore to have to pretend to like something you do not like. Would you enjoy having to pretend to have fun making small talk with your mother in law at 10am when you want to sleep and even be expected to be enthusiastic about it just because it‘s what makes her happy and you are expected to satisfy her in every way since you are married now? might as well get used to it
She is not your sex doll. Yeah, this whole set up sucks ass, but life will never be you getting your every whim and whist fulfilled. If you wanted that you should have become a millionaire and have a harem. But you are not. She likely would also love you to be a bit more this or that in some areas and does not get everything she wants. Thats reality. And you are getting frequent sex, that‘s much more than the majority of men alive can say for themselves, even the married ones.
Sure you could argue that she should just go along and don‘t make a big fuss about it. But have you ever tried to fake e joying something sexual three times a weak? That shit wears you down because it is a blow to your dignity each time. Imagine she would tell you she is into something that makes you feel humiliated and then she would say she is entitled to you not only going with it but do so enthusiastically because you two are married and it is your duty to make sure she is satisfied. Is that really how you treat someone you claim to care about? You get off reliably. Is that tiny bit of added arousal REALLY worth humiliating your own wive three times a week? Do you know what a blow that is to your connection? How much resentment that racks up? Chose wisely because in five years you do not get to claim that she just left for no reason and you never did anything wrong.

I don’t have any advice. I am in the exact same situation as you OP. It’s awful, really.

>>33192980
i totally understand your post and agree with it but i'd just like to add that couples SHOULD work slowly, in small tolerable ways, towards making each other happy. if she would like him to a little bit more this, she should tell him and he should try, and if he does, she should consider wearing a thong and not act like it's humiliating, the same way he shouldn't act like it's humiliating to chat with his mother in law a couple times a week (if that's really what she wants)

im not talking about drastic changes, im just saying they should communicate, kindly, and work, slowly, towards fulfilling each others desires, happily, long term, over the life time of the marriage

>>33193001
Sure but she HAS been trying and doing that. If something makes you feel like shit then just powering through it will not magically change that. She might be willing to do it for him anyways but not weekly and surely not if he comes at it with this entitled attitude. Because it would be her doing him a favor. He acts like she owes it to him, so it becomes a chore she resents. Because having to do something over and over that you do not want to do is the definition of a chore. And this is not some ordinary chore like folding laundry or cutting the lawn that do not compromise her dignity. This is her letting him use her body as he pleases for his own satisfaction. This is next level chore.

>>33193006
i hear ya but im just saying there's gotta be an option for what to tell HER (other than uhh you're incompatible better divorce aha) if she, say, decided one day down the line that anything more than sex once a month or every two months was "humiliating" and "degrading"

i know it's a hypothetical but where do you personally draw the line of where she's humiliating, degrading, etc HIM by her disinterest in sex, at least in the above case?

>>33193015
She 100% will start to want sex less and less and start to find every kind of physical intimacy degrading and humiliating if he keeps up that act of entitlement and demand.
If someone doesn‘t feel comfortable acting like an animal in heat with you them there is always a reason. And the reason is never that you did not pressure them enough and demand they try harder enough times. The reason is more likely that she does not feel comfortable wearing lingerie because she is insecure, or that she does not feel comfortable being slutty or sexual with OP for some reason. Maybe because she fears being compared to the girls he watches in porn or maybe she fears he will lose respect for her if she acts like a porn whore. There could be many reasons. He should work with her on the root causes, not just demand she pretends.

Adult entertainment is bad, it convinces average men, or any men, really, that they deserve more than they do, or deludes them into thinking they can somehow get the type of action they're watching. You don't and can't, few people can, this is just a brutal truth. You're a starving orphan looking through the window of a mansion watching rich people feast; now by all means don't just starve, do what you can to get what you can, but stop watching the feasting, it's only making your suffering worse.

>>33193032
This. Porn normalizes what used to be how only some depraved prostitutes in a paid orgy acted and now every man thinks that is how sex should be like. He expects his mousy and shy average jane wife to act like an OF star behind closed doors. It‘s total insanity.

trust me, you do not want a ho wife. can't trust the broad

>>33192969
fag

Before people started filling the heads of women with the independence garbage, most women were conditioned to derive happiness from pleasuring their husbands. Females are very plastic but it takes a le society to influence them to do any specific thing, so you can thank society for ruining your intimacy and you'll need to start at the societal level to change anything, which won't happen in your lifetime, but you'll survive anyway o algo

>>33192865 (OP)
Someday, if you live long enough, you won't be having any sex at all.
>She's still down for 2-3 times a week
Good for you. Curb your horniness and leave something kinky for more special occasions.

Stop watching porn retard

>>33192865 (OP)
>>33192980
Even if she "isn't into it", there's a big difference between that and being a wet fucking blanket. A bit of enthusiasm costs nothing. You honestly enjoy everything 24/7 she wants to do? If you're putting on a smile and putting up with her silly woman shit once in a while, then she can do the same for you. People in relationships have a duty to each other, including the bedroom. I don't know where women get the idea that being lazy and lacking enthusiasm is fine, as long as it's in the bedroom. Relationships aren't made by Disney, they require commitment and work from both parties. People who think they've stumbled into a fairy tale relationship are just those who have found someone who knows how to reciprocate equal effort in the right areas. For many men that's getting their balls emptied, and for many women that's help around the house.

The quickest way to get a man to cheat on a woman is for her to respond to sexual activity like she's doing the dishes. She doesn't have to pretend to be a brothel worker 3 times a week, but a little effort goes a long way. As long as you're doing right by her, she should be doing it by you as long as it's within her comfortable boundaries and not just being hand waved away due to being complacent.

>>33192865 (OP)
Never do ANYTHING in sex unless both parties are equally enthusiastic

>>33192865 (OP)
This is the sort of thing that marriage counselors are actually pretty good at helping with

>>33197927
hypothetically what would they say

>>33192865 (OP)
> OP has certain expectations of sex in marriage
> his wife doesn't seem to share these certain expectations
> "Is this the type of thing I can even negotiate oooooorrrrrrr?"
genuine question, WHY DID YOU MARRY HER THEN?!?
Brother in christ, MARRIAGE WAS YOUR NEGOTIATION.
Before you even married her, both of you should have been on the same page about these sorts of things, don't you think?
Before you put a ring on her, you could have negotiated "hey, these are my needs. This is what you will have to put on the table."
The time of negotiation, with all due respect, OP, has ended.

Think of her perspective. These last years, all you ever wanted are fried eggs and toast for breakfast. All of a sudden, now "this guy" over here wants some 5-star miracle on his plate every morning. It is extremely unreasonable. The best advice I can give, is, "you are a dumbass, but ease her into it, make intercourse more interesting and pleasuring for HER besides 'missionary', and y'all should hopefully do fine."

>>33192865 (OP)
Obviously you should *talk* to your wife about things you would like to try, just as she should be talking to you about all the ways in which you aren't satisfying her. But you have absolutely no right to *expect* any sex at all. Of course many married people have loads of sex: when I was younger, my wife and I had sex twice a day on weekdays and more at weekends. But that happened because it was what we both *wanted*, not because either of us felt they had a right to *expect* it. You will have as much sex as both of you want to have; if either of you doesn't want it, you don't have it.

whats with all the women in this thread

the most basic piv missionary sex is absolutely an expectation of a healthy marriage as much as basic affection or staying fit and sober are, barring VERY extenuating life circumstances of course

saying you shouldn't expect to have regular sex in a marriage is like saying you shouldn't expect your partner not to gamble all their money away; the complete opposite is true

marriage counselors started listening to this back in the 90s and since then have been telling women that providing sex is THEIR responsibility, if they're otherwise satisfied with the rest of the marriage; if she doesn't wanna have sex, that isn't his problem to deal with, it's HER problem to dig deep and get to the bottom of what's wrong with her feelings towards him and go from there. Seriously, that is what almost all marriage counselors say, lack of sex is a complete marriage killer and everyone knows its the girls problem, not the mans problem

don't be weird and make her do stuff she doesn't like ofc, but regular sex is def an expectation

>>33193025
i can't imaging a single girl who will tolerate a deep-dive convo into "why" she doesn't feel like doing xyz sexually, im not saying she's crazy or or will lie or will try to manipulate etc, I'm just saying there's a 0% chance any amount of conversation will bring any girl of any kind to a personal epiphany like "huh wow i don't like wearing lingerie because i am secretly afraid you will respect me less if i am very sexual with you"

probably less then 0.01% respond properly to discourse like that, go ahead and try, sure, but don't act like it's the only option because it doesn't work most of the time

you don't turn her on OP. This is the answer to all sexless marriages. Tough pill to swallow for most people, but it's a simple answer.

>>33204064
This. People are able to enjoy all kinds of crazy shit when they're so horny they can't think straight. It's tough to put someone in that mindset when they see you every day in sweatpants doing bills at the computer or whatever.

Longterm relationships and healthy sex lives just don't go hand in hand. One of the many problems of modernity that people are trying to solve. You see that with even more cursed shit like the poly crowd.

>>33204719
see I think this exact thing and try to get space for myself and for my gf but then she whines endlessly about me not spending enough time with her watching netflix or something

But then when I go on work trips for a week she'll actually act like she wants me (at least for a few days) when I come home. We just can't win

>>33204758
I think good things in life are just fleeting and rare, and that's why they matter so much. It'd be awesome if chicks were wired like us and could get down at a moment's notice. But would it mean as much to you?

When you return from those work trips and she gives it up for you, doesn't it feel like you've earned something awesome? That dynamic won't last of course, and even your work trips will become routine in time; so enjoy it while it lasts.

Couples should only have 6 hour long drug fueled smash sesh once a month where they do everything they can think of, but then practice chastity the rest of the month. work hard, play hard

>>33204794
It doesn't really seem like the amount of effort that is required is worth fleeting and rare rewards.

>>33204946
I agree, but I'm also too much of a coward to kill myself. So, I cope and delude myself like everyone else.

>>33204969
I play video games.

>>33192865 (OP)
I ain't that nigga trying to holla cause I want some head. I'm that nigga tryin' to holla cause I want some bread.

>>33204977
I used to do that, but increasingly I'm aware that I'm just consuming a product that was successfully advertised to me and isn't really nourishing me in any meaningful way. It makes me sad. So I log off, ruminate on how touch starved I am, watch some porn and go to bed.

>>33192865 (OP)
>anal
>but nothing rough
lmao are you insane? anal is one of the most extreme and depraved things you can ask of a woman

>>33192865 (OP)
Bro I've been with my wife for 14 years, married for 4. It just gets worse. Shes just here but doesn't want to jump my bones so idk what to do with her. Like what do you do with women that are in your presence all the time but don't actually desire you but also make it so they are always there but don't want you? What is this fucking called? Friend zone married edition? It's some dead zone of feminine energy where you just exist on the outer edge of the energy universe. I imagine this explains why I go into europhia for 2 weeks when I interact with anything remotely feminine.

>>33192865 (OP)
I clicked on this post from /pol/ just to see the jiggly bread. Good day.

>>33205525
link pol thread pls

>>33205513
im sorry to hear that but do you derive pleasure from anything else in life? do you have anything else going on other than your marriage? you could really enjoy life with just a roommate wife who is otherwise nice, lots of kids, friends, purposeful career, hobbies, goals, trips, great achievements etc and have tons of energy and dopamine from rarely nutting. at that point do you really even desire sex if you've got so much else going on?

>>33205513
It's just incel with extra steps.

>>33192865 (OP)
Don't you get bored of gooning to the same old shit

>>33192980
This might be OP's wife btw

>>33205704
That's actually kind of how it was like the first decade. Porn and fapping compensated for that void. There was no need that needed to be met. It wasn't until Semen retention that this started to be a problem. I can't watch porn and fap everyday and be happy with myself. It's crazy how passive you get with porn but also happier with material things that don't matter. Makes me think modern society is held together by porn. That's where all the feminine energy access is now for majority of people.