My wife and I had a son three years ago, it took us a year to conceive him and we were about to see a fertility specialist. We tried right away to have a second, but after 18 months we spoke to the specialist. Then we conceived naturally 4 times in a row, each of them ending in miscarriage. Then we had 9 months without anything so we went back to the specialist, and a 5th miscarriage happened. They have not been able to identify any cause, although my wife has PCOS, and 1 foetus had a chromosomal disorder.

I don't know what to do. We are struggling emotionally and it's affecting our family. She has lost control of her body which must be horrible, I can't imagine what it must be like to have several surgeries and pass multiple dead children. Our son is growing up without a sibling, and even if we do have one ASAP the age gap is already quite large. Also, my wife will hit 35 soon even though we started trying for kids at 30, which makes it even less likely we'll have a healthy pregnancy. Part of me wants to stop trying so the ordeal stops, but we are both set on at least one more child. Originally we wanted 5. It is important to us that our children be ours, especially as adoption is basically illegal in our country.

My wife wants to get IVF. I'm not sure if that will assist, or if it will just result in more miscarriages. It might help depending on what the reason for the miscarriages is. However, it's also hugely expensive and we are not very well-off, though we could increase our mortgage. Primarily though, I cannot see how IVF is not murder, given that the process is to conceive as many children as possible and implant only one of them. My wife doesn't agree, she's anti-abortion but doesn't think life begins until implantation at the earliest given how common natural non-implantation is.

I appreciate any suggestions. I would also love for someone to convince me that IVF is somehow moral.

>>33345646 (OP)
kill yourself

>>33345669
That was always my plan for life but then I had my son and I can't do that to him.

>>33345673
rape your son and then urself

>>33345646 (OP)
>Primarily though, I cannot see how IVF is not murder, given that the process is to conceive as many children as possible and implant only one of them.
That's stilly. Her body's been discarding unviable children since she turned 12. Yours has been doing it since you turned 10 and will continue until you die. Lots of fertilized eggs end up getting reabsorbed or trashed without any external intervention. IVF is your best shot.

>>33345833
>Her body's been discarding unviable children since she turned 12.
Eggs are not unviable children.
>Yours has been doing it since you turned 10 and will continue until you die.
Sperm are not unviable children.
>Lots of fertilized eggs end up getting reabsorbed or trashed without any external intervention.
This is what she says, but I don't buy that natural tragedy justifies murder. You could just as easily say that a million toddlers die in floods every year so you may as well drown the local pre-school. The only question I can see as relevant is whether or not the embryos are human lives, and I can't see any reason to be sure they're not.

>>33345853
You are an idiot.
Your wife deserves better.

>>33345853
Ok well don't, then. Fine. Die childless idc

>>33345853
>>33345646 (OP)
Or you can keep (by your own words) keep failing to conceive viable children any way and incurring more emotional damage and chipping away at your relationship.

What I'd say is that if you are not well of for IVF then you're probably not well off for having another children, too. I'm not a religiousfag but sometimes we gotta take adversity from a good lens; maybe it's for the best that you weren't able to conceive on a whim.

>>33345875
>Or you can keep (by your own words) keep failing to conceive viable children any way and incurring more emotional damage and chipping away at your relationship.
This is part of what I'm grappling with. It's almost like the trolley dilemma. Do we keep trying for children and suffer potentially numerous miscarriages, thereby "killing" our own children and causing suffering to our family, or do we do IVF and kill our own children but carry one to term and cause our family suffering to stop?

On a purely utilitarian basis IVF would seem obvious, but utilitarianism is morally flawed. The difference is one of intention. Attempting to conceive a child naturally carries no moral burden if the pregnancy miscarries (although there is lesser burden in attempting it knowing that emotional damage was a possibility). Attempting to conceive a child via IVF knowing that other children will most likely be murdered as a result carries the moral burden of conceiving children just to murder them.

Morality is extremely complex but I think IVF violates the principle of double effect. Eg, if you were to bomb a military target but cause collateral civilian damage, that would be permissible (assuming the war was just etc). However, if you were to terrorist bomb a civilian target, that would be impermissible (even if the number of casualties is the same).

Intention matters. The only ways out I can see are if conception isn't the creation of human life, or if the moral potential of repeated attempts outweighs the moral harm of IVF, but even that argument is difficult because the correct answer would be to give up on having children. We aren't entitled to them, as much as we want them, especially if having them means killing other children.

>>33345646 (OP)
three years isn't that bad of an age gap

>>33346119
Three years PLUS the time to conceive a new child PLUS 9 months, and that's assuming that the 6th pregnancy will be the one that takes. So four years minimum really, and quite likely more than five.

>30 yo hag
Lmaooo get dunked on

>>33346160
hm yeah I see what you're saying there then

>>33345646 (OP)
Be happy that you have a son, if you want another kids you could try adoption or foster parenting. Your kid gets a sibling and you don't suffer another miscarriage.

>>33346881
Adoption is essentially illegal in my country, and foster parenting isn't the same thing at all.

>>33345646 (OP)
>MARRIES HAG/roastie
>WHY CANT SHE GET PREGNANT again?!?!?
she's old and has a hormonal disorder, what were you expecting.

I wouldn't spend a dime on in vitro treatment, your wife is a genetic dead end that's why, its nature's way of saying her genes are bad.

First off you have 1 kid. That's already pretty good, at least to me who's 35 with zero prospects of even having a gf.

Second the age gap doesn't matter. I'm 2 of 4, the oldest is over 10 years apart from the youngest. They still get along just fine. It's only going to be a real issue if it's like 20+ years apart.

>>33349749
Not OP but you are in for some shit if or when you manage to get a wife of your own one day. All pregnancies carry a 20 - 50% chance of miscarriage within the first trimester by default. This isn’t a special genetic thing, it’s inherently in every woman’s odds. One of those societal secrets not really talked about, but you find out once you actually get a life and find out the hard way.

Its very easy for you to judge from the sidelines, because you haven’t experienced that hard shit yourself. You are unmarried and childless.

>>33345853
>This is what she says, but I don't buy that natural tragedy justifies murder.
Dude your wife is supposed to be the emotional retard not you. A natural miscarried child isn't fucking murder. It's literally god and nature saying "ok not this one". Just keep trying or give up you already have one kid fucking love him instead of ignoring him.

>>33345646 (OP)
Also my advice: Keep trying for it. Expect miscarriages as a possibility but dare to keep trying anyway. That Chromosomal disorder is 90% the reason for all miscarriages. Thats across all miscarriages in any pregnancy. And miscarriages are 20 ~ 50% of every pregnancy attempt.

Once you both brace yourself for this cruel and harsh reality it becomes doable. Life isnt a cartoon where you get knocked up, and pregnancy is 100% guaranteed gonna make it to delivery. Reality is, only over half of all pregnancies make it. The game isnt won when the sperm meets the egg. Theres a whole lot more risks and tragedies during the entire development that could happen. And for first trimester, it requires no reason or explanation, it just happens. The body tries to get the chromosomes together for the blueprint, but in its random selection, chooses too little or too many. Fetus becomes unviable, fetus perishes.

So you gotta roll again, and again. This is how you make childbearing an absolute certainty. If you and her give up, then having no more children becomes a certainty.

>>33349835
>cont

If you do not believe me about the 20 ~ 50% of all pregnancies having spontaneous miscarriages, then ask anyone you know who are also parents, including your own mom or dad. Ask them “when did you choose to announce their pregnancies to family and friends?”

You will quickly notice a common pattern. Most people announce it after 13 weeks or so. Three months in. Why? Because its common knowledge that first trimester is miscarriage-zone. Its so common and widespread, that people do not even want to announce pregnancy until they are out of the danger zone.

“dont count chickens before they hatch” but for humans.

>>33349800
Keep seething roastie, its not my fault this guy decided to marry a woman that's less fertile than if she was 20 or even 25 plain and simple. Blame the culture that women follow like morons ,they get deluded into thinking they will have it easier time trying to conceive past 30.
>implying marriage is something to look forward to
>Yeah sign me up to spend thousands of dollars to revive barren land like the op is about to do.
>mfw

>>33350003
>Keep seething roastie
Not everyone who disagrees with you has a hole.
>its not my fault this guy decided to marry a woman thats less fertile
>plain and simple

You are plain and simple. You speak but you don’t know the things you speak. A sign of idiocy, I gotta be real with you. For example, OP’s wife is fertile. We know this because she conceived easily. Fertility has to do with ovulation, making an egg, and that egg accepting sperm. Hers did all of that. At 30 too, that implies fertility.

Your dumbass thinks fertility is about not having miscarriages. Thats why I say you speak but dont know what you speak of. And the reason is because you have never knocked anyone up yourself. You got no idea what you speak about.

>>33350047
>Planting a seed and that won't grow
Seems pretty barren to me, being fertile is not just the act of initiatiating but sustaining growth you dense cow. Learn bio before ranting brainlet.
>implying cause I'm on 4chan that I don't have kids,

>>33349811
You have misunderstood, I meant that a miscarriage doesn't justify IVF when I said that natural tragedy doesn't justify murder.

>>33349835
>>33349851
Thanks anon, I think we will keep trying if for no other reason than because the alternative is to make a deliberate choice to give up by using contraception which seems pretty weird given we want more children. I suppose the real question is whether to use IVF or not.

>>33345906
I agree with your moral considerations. Don't let the faggots here dissuade you from what you understand to be right and wrong.
And affording IVF is a significant expense for you that puts your family's long-term material welfare at risk you should also not take that lightly.
If I were in your shoes I'd continue trying the natural way as long as your wife is dead set on continuing, and if that does not work out just let it go and focus on being a good parent to your only child.

>PCOS
>keeps fertilising and killing foeti like a boss
oof, op.
there are just to many possibilites to rule out. so lets get the easy questions first
when would her PCOS have developed? b4 or after the 1st pregnancy?
are you or your wife so called vaccinated against so called covid? if so, how many shots either of you?
before or after PCOS announced itself? b4 or after the first or consecutive pregnancies?

>>33345646 (OP)
Sometimes you just have to accept your one child as a blessing and let it go, you can’t always have what you want.
You have been torturing yourself for five times and you are now planning to go bankrupt for another child, your relationship has probably strained too since you probably resent each other even without saying it. Is it that worth it? Why not accept the health and nurture the child you have now?

>>33345906
Why are you looking at the morality of it when you don’t even have the means to afford it lol

>>33352122
None of them have even really attempted to engage with the moral argument anyway.

>>33352657
She was on the pill for years while we were dating, when got married she came off it and she wasn't diagnosed with PCOS until after our son was born. She presents somewhat abnormally though, she has an extremely thin tummy and normal androgens, she does have a fat ass but mostly she has highly irregular cycles (often they are 42 days) and polycystic ovaries. She has said that she wondered if the hormonal birth control kept her PCOS in check. In our country, the COVID vaccination was required to be allowed to leave the house and to work so we eventually got Pfizer, no boosters though, and our son was actually conceived less than a month later (and survived my wife getting covid during the pregnancy).

>>33353090
>>33353085
I may have overspoken if you are taking bankruptcy from it. We can afford it but it is a serious investment we can't take lightly.

>>33345646 (OP)
>especially as adoption is basically illegal in our country
Huh? What do they do with orphans?

>>33353888
Aboriginals are allowed to adopt each other, but for the rest of us it's basically impossible. Overall in a country of 27 million there are less than 200 adoptions per year.

>>33353856
>pill for years
so thats already a HUGE impact on a rather delicate system such as the hormonal one. which takes probably years to rebalance, if at all.
>Pfizer, no boosters though, and our son was actually conceived less than a month later
well thats rather vague.
so do i comprehend it correctly that your wife got 2 shots of pfycer and you yourself got 2 shots. then, after being injected, you fertilised her less then a month afterwards and then, 9 months later your healthy son was born?
if that is so, you probably already lucked out massively, massively.

needless to say, that is what i already figured.
turns out, the spikeproteins done by the LNP-mod-Mrna from any corona vacc is cytotoxic, gets into every organ of the body and reverse-transcriptases into ones genome. and many other worse things (infertile offspring)
but lets not bore you with the details.

you can check how fucked you both are, by taking a look at your batch number and id (in your vaxpass) and research it online at
>https://howbadismybatch.com
maybe you are lucky and your batch has no considerable cases, then you are the first ones to report such a thing! or it is unrelated to the injections
maybe you are unlucky and your batch is pretty bad and many others got the same problems
but of course none of the above is qualified medical advise...

at leat the postmarketing experience does not mention PCOS at all.
(page 30 are the potential side effects of the vacc, status 2021)

>>33354140
https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/reissue_5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf
forgot link

>>33353856
>She was on the pill for years while we were dating
Hypocrite.

>>33354140
It's not on our vaccine passports, I would have to ask my doctor.

>>33354806
In what way?

OP, consider having her look into goats rue, metformin, and doing a low carbohydrate diet that includes a very balanced load of healthy fats, proteins, and vegetables.

>>33355703
Premarital sex is against your religion.

>>33355836
Never said anything about religion.

>>33355713
She has Metformin and takes progesterone when she gets a positive test. I think her diet is pretty good but I'll suggest that. Never heard of goats rue but we'll look into it.

>>33345853
>I don't buy that natural tragedy justifies murder
You're retarded if this is truly your stance. IVF is morally neutral.
>You could just as easily say that a million toddlers die in floods every year so you may as well drown the local pre-school.
An act of mass murder in one of the most horrible methods to die is different from a fucking medical procedure.
>The only question I can see as relevant is whether or not the embryos are human lives
They aren't
>I can't see any reason to be sure they're not.
Then you're lost and fucked anon

>>33345646 (OP)
The plapping will continue until morale improves

>>33349749
my older sisters are all 30+ white women and each has 3+ healthy, smart kids. Each had one miscarriage (we refer to them collectively as "Tony")

>>33356207
>The plapping will continue until morale improves

ITS PLAPPENING

>>33345853
But 100% of those eggs are going to be unviable if you do nothing.

>>33345679
a serbian film style?

>>33345646 (OP)

How many goyvid jewjab injections did she get?

>>33345646 (OP)
My ex husband and I miscarried and I have to say that if I have to do it all over again and miscarried again I would consider IVF due to age and the emotional turmoil it had over me.

It all comes down to what you both want, talk about it together and come to your conclusions. I suggest considering it, the technology has come a long way in the past 10 years and implementation rates are quite high.

>>33345646 (OP)
Damn bro, that's tough.
If you want more children you just got to keep trying, but also try not to put too much pressure on yourselves. Just do what you can, and if it isn't meant to be that's not the worst that could happen. You got each other and your son after all.
Concerning the IVF thing: I wouldn't argue with my wife over it, there's no way that argument wouldn't end in some sort of resentment one way or another since the morality of it is objectively ambiguous.

>>33356288
I'm very sorry to hear that. However, in my case it's nothing to do with success rates but rather the moral arguments.

>>33356311
Thanks anon.

idk what both of your lifestyles are like, but start eating healthy and exercising. it's important for men to not drink, not smoke etc to produce healthy sperm. try to wear a lot of linen/cotton/wool. none of that polyester shit.

nothing wrong with IVF desu. every moment you wait it'll only get harder to conceive.
best of luck! and cherish your son
I will pray for u

>>33345646 (OP)
Tell your wife to loose weight. The pcos will disappear if she isn't fat. Her body's hormones are going to be fucked for a while unless she loses weight.

>>33356916
>>33356964
We had already taken this into account and I lift and ride an exercise bike, and while I still eat too many sweets we both otherwise eat extremely healthily. She doesn't have much insulin resistance from the PCOS. We have also already had all the tests done including on sperm and they aren't the issue. Thank you for praying for us anon.

>>33354852
well then you know what to do this monday

Meanwhile I know someone who insists no one like Op exists

>>33345646 (OP)
>life
Bugs and bacteria are alive too, you're already constantly killing them without moral repercussions.
Life itself is not sacred. Especially the life of a couple of cells that can't think or feel.
Soul or sapience? Perhaps they are, but they spawn on that empty, vacant biomaterial much later.
https://youtu.be/1BMrVXrXa0c

>>33355852
>Never said anything about religion.
then what is your possible justification for the belief that in vitro is child murder?

>>33361166
We don't know when babies are ensouled and killing one on the off-chance that it turns into a human at some point later is so risky as to be malicious.

>>33362743
Do you think only religious people are against abortion too? The argument against murdering unborn children is that they are human beings. The Bible is not specific on abortion, Christians just tend to have thought about it more.

>>33345646 (OP)
PCOS is the likely culprit here. Wife could give the ketogenic diet a try, it can help manage PCOS. I'm curious though about what other tests your wife has had. Is her B12 good? What about rhesus incompatibility or other immune conditions?

>>33363170
Yes all of those are fine, and even her PCOS is fairly abnormal and minor as I described above.

>>33363182
Ah ok then, but I still think keto is worth a shot. I agree with your stance on IVF and I sincerely hope you won't have to use it. I wish you and your family the best!

>>33345646 (OP)
You or your spouse may be living under God's curse. Barrenness of the womb instead of fruitfulness. And even if you do successfully conceive, boom, a miscarriage.

Deuteronomy 28:15,18
>[15]“But if you disobey the Lord your God and do not faithfully keep all his commands and laws that I am giving you today, all these evil things will happen to you:
>[18]“The Lord will curse you by giving you only a few children, poor crops, and few cattle and sheep.

Compared to Deuteronomy 28:1 and 28:4. It may be best for both of you to get on your knees and ask God for forgiveness for whatever it was that offended Him. He may end up blessing you both with like 8 or 9 children out of pity. A "beauty for ashes" sort of thing.

1 Peter 3:7
>In the same way, you husbands must give honor to your wives. Treat her with understanding as you live together. She may be weaker than you are, but she is your equal partner in God's gift of new life. If you don't treat her as you should, your prayers will not be heard.

>>33345853
Truth nuke

>>33363291
Thanks anon, I will discuss it with her.

>>33363448
I assure you, I have begged god numerous times. I know I am a sinner and any blessing such as children is more than I deserve, but my wife is truly virtuous.

>>33363471
>I assure you, I have begged god numerous times

I bet you never tried the hardest thing to do: fasting. If prayer fixes nothing, then fasting and prayer.

I still wouldn't give up on God if I were you. Your faith may be getting tested. Or the devil may be trying to frustrate your life.

>>33363100
>Do you think only religious people are against abortion too?
I've never met a non-religious person who saw abortion as some unequivocal evil, so yeah I do. Why do you think the killing of a nonviable potential human, that really is just a bundle of cells at that point and has no capacity for pain or emotion, to say nothing of a conception of self, cannot be destroyed under any circumstances, even when it's to allow for a successful pregnancy?

>>33363520
I will never give up on God. I will pray every day and strive to rid my life of sin. Thanks for your suggestion to fast, I'll consider that too.

>>33363611
I didn't say it was unequivocally evil, I in fact wanted to engage in a debate about the morality of it. But the flaw in what you have just said is calling it a potential human, when in fact it is already human. There is no clear line to draw at which point a baby becomes a human.

>>33345646 (OP)
you get a fertile 18-22 years old woman and get her pregnant
>>B-BUT MUH ROASTIE 30s WIFE
leave her.

>>33364330
Okay m8, I got with her as a teenager and we started trying for a child at 28, but do go on with your internet memes.

>>33364335

This is why I didn't ask about this after the first 4 miscarriages, you get some /pol/ retard talking about infidelity even though my wife was a virgin when we met and we have been together 15 years.

Could be that your sperm quality is poor or she miscarried due to stress, have you looked into it?

>I cannot see how IVF is not murder, given that the process is to conceive as many children as possible and implant only one of them
You are already doing literally this, but whatever

>>33363100
>We don't know when babies are ensouled
Pretty sure not when they are bunch of cells with no brain structure or as complex as a critter, most likely way later after birth.
People used to not even give their children names until they were a year old.

>>33365623
No, I am implanting one at a time and then they later miscarry.

>>33365631
So your argument is that babies aren't human until they're a year old? Unironically seems reasonable and consistent for someone in favour of IVF and abortion.

>>33345646 (OP)
find a healthy younger woman

>>33365666
What about the other 2 questions though.
The man's health is a pretty important when it comes to pregnancy.

>>33365666
>>33361166
>https://youtu.be/1BMrVXrXa0c
Even if you count them as humans, it's irrelevant, braindead people are also humans, so curb your racism.

>>33345646 (OP)
Is that pic supposed to represent your wife or are you yet another baiting trannoid who wants to be an anime girl?

>>33365673
We have both been through a battery of tests and no issues identified.

There was a radio documentary in Sweden regarding a woman that had 9 miscarriages. She tried to convince at 19 and every year it resulted in miscarriage, the doctors told her it’s nothing wrong with her or couldn’t find anything when they did test. In the end she found some information that her S protein maybe was low and brought forward it to the doctors and gave her medication for it. After the treatment she could conceive and got a child.

>>33365684
Either way, neither of them shouldn't drink booze if they want to conceive a healthy child

>>33365698
Good thing alcohol is prohibitively expensive here.

>>33363875
>There is no clear line to draw at which point a baby becomes a human.
Even if a nonviable bundle of cells is human, why should it have equal rights?

A fertilized egg is not equivalent to you or you wife or your son or a baby. Fuck off with your impractical self righteous bullshit. Either do IVF or stay fucking miserable.

>>33367213
>Even if a nonviable bundle of cells is human, why should it have equal rights?

You say that but you live in a world where we imprison people for taking a baseball bat to a bunch of American bald eagle eggs. Totally non-viable shells of yolk, who even cares. Why should those bird eggs have special treatment?

"But those eggs are viable" they say. "Leave em alone and they become majestic endangered bald American eagles" they say.

If you leave a fertilized egg the fuck alone, it becomes a human. But people don't care. You can destroy embryos and fertilized human eggs all day and it's fine. But not those precious bird eggs, you get arrested for that lol.

What's happening is misanthropy has become culture. It's easy to kill off viable humans in the womb because it's easy to hate ourselves and other people now. Way easier. And when you can hate humanity, you can have no problem killing them in the womb.

>>33367941
Based post honestly

>>33367941
that's a weird non sequitur

>>33369562
>previous poster asked why should a foetal human have human rights (ie, not be murdered)
>poster you're quoting said that not to do so would be inconsistent with the rights afforded to mere animal eggs
seems pretty sequitorial to me

>>33367941
>If you leave a fertilized egg the fuck alone, it becomes a human
You can keep repeating this but it won't ever make any sense. Firstly, if you leave a fertilized egg alone it doesn't become a human. It requires a constant flow of nutrients and a living host. Secondly, a thing is not the thing it will eventually be. A seed is not a tree. A pile of lumber is not a house.

>You can destroy embryos and fertilized human eggs all day and it's fine. But not those precious bird eggs, you get arrested for that lol.
These two things have nothing to do with one another. Its illegal to destroy bird eggs because birds are necessary to maintain our environment that we, humans, require to live. Destroying wildlife and habitats for fun or something isn't even remotely comparable to a person not wanting to grow another human person inside of them.

>>33369579
>Firstly, if you leave a fertilized egg alone it doesn't become a human. It requires a constant flow of nutrients and a living host.
It is ALREADY a human. But even that aside, you could say the same thing about a baby, which needs to be breastfed for six months and then cared for for a decade or two after that. Then there are drooling retards who can only live with constant medication. Helplessness is not an indicator of humanity.
>Secondly, a thing is not the thing it will eventually be. A seed is not a tree. A pile of lumber is not a house.
An egg is not a human. A sperm is not a human. A foetus is ALREADY a human. The thing it will eventually be is an adult human, much the same as an infant.

>>33369593
>A foetus is ALREADY a human. The thing it will eventually be is an adult human
https://theconversation.com/most-human-embryos-naturally-die-after-conception-restrictive-abortion-laws-fail-to-take-this-embryo-loss-into-account-187904
Most fetuses don't survive to birth, with a significant number of pregnancies ending in early loss. It's estimated that 70% to 75% of human conceptions fail to survive to birth, including both embryos that are reabsorbed into the parent's body before anyone knows an egg has been fertilized and miscarriages that occur later in the pregnancy. This high rate of early embryo loss is a common and normal occurrence in humans, primarily due to random genetic errors.

Psalms 113:9
>He honours the childless wife in her home; he makes her happy by giving her children. Praise the Lord!

But, the question remains....

Matthew 9:28
>When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied.

>>33371305
Do you have a point or are you just pointing out random irrelevant statistics?

>>33345646 (OP)
>thinks IVF is le evil
>still gambles by passing multiple dead fetuses and making wife disable in the process
it's difficult to remain composed while writing this reply, every day i become more convinced that humans enjoy suffering

>>33375055
Feel free to convince me that murdering an unborn child isn't murder. Or, based on your second greentext, that miscarriage somehow is murder.

>>33345646 (OP)
>PCOS
>35

woah how could this have happened!!!121!!!

i mean she's LITERALLY two decades years past her prime

OP I don't know if you're still monitoring the thread but I wanted to share some more resources with you
https://drpoppyandco.com/
https://www.restoreendo.com/
https://veritasfertility.com/

>>33379291
I'm still here and thanks for the links, but I'm not American so I won't be able to use the specific businesses you've linked.

>>33375066
I want a an actual conscious reason why you consider informed clump of cells human. Because it has chromosomes present in it? Because at the point that ivf happens, it is not fetus or embryo even, it is just somestem cells that have yet to form a proper DNA chain. Any "unviable" embryo produced there is unviable because it in fact did not form a human, just cell soup. If it does form anything that could develop into human, it's immediately implanted. All discarded ones would never have had become anything.
You also cannot murder that which is not living. Biologically of course the term life is wider and could be applied to an egg, but you don't call cutting down trees murder, and thus in social terms the "living" is a thing that has nervous system and some capacity to communicate. Anything below that cannot be murdered in the sense of emotional meaning this word has.

>>33380259
* unformed

Hey OP we had a miscarriage too. My baby girl came out perfect and was still warm in my arms but sadly did not survive. Some Docs said it was Covid but it doesn't matter.

Thankfully we had one who survived a couple years later. She's the joy of my life. We want to have at least one more but I'd still be the happiest man in the world if it remained like this.

Regarding your difficulties we must understand the human body and specifically the female is not some perfect machine. Before civilization and when humans lived in in nature there was a huge percentage of death at birth for both child and mother. Even if their diet and lifestyle were a hundred times better.

What we did different on the 2nd pregnancy? she went on a strict no carb diet. Kept her weight on check and avoided all foods that caused intolerance. We did Yoga together and remained fairly active.

I'd say you should try again. Like I said our bodies aren't yet perfected. Biologically we have foundamental difficulties with birth so I believe, if your wife really wants it, you should honour her wish.

Best of luck man

>>33380259
>I want a an actual conscious reason why you consider informed clump of cells human.
Why would you not consider them human? Where would you draw the line?

>>33380347
Thank you anon. I am sorry for your loss, that would have been terrible, and I am grateful that our miscarriages have all been no later than 8ish weeks. A couple of people have mentioned a low or no carb diet so I will look into this more.