Thread 33456767

>dating for 3.5 months
>met at church, asked to coffee and have been taking since then
>texted daily for the first month
>homeschooled conservative Christian girl who aligns with me on values and politically
>seeing each other at least weekly
>~4th date told her I am dating intentionally and want to have a family eventually
>started sitting next to her at church and she's invited me to play boardgames with her best friends and cousin, been over to her place
>asked her to be my girlfriend after 2 months
>said she's not ready emotionally, she's made this mistake before when she was unsure and regretted it because she had to end it
>sucks but agreed to keep seeing each other
>see lots of positives: she's asked me for my availability, suggests dates, talk about planning a day trip to a nearby city or wineries or something making me think she's growing feelings and wants to keep seeing me, hold hands on dates, getting to know her closest friends
>see some negatives: pace of texting during the week slowed down from first months, didn't want to be my gf then and haven't brought this up since, isn't super talkative during dates but realizing this might just be her personality (I have to carry the conversation and she talks but doesn't share as much as I do which feels off)
I'm pretty idealistic and anxious and I feel like I wish she'd be more obvious about her feelings because I am. I told her that if she doesn't see it working out to tell me because I'm interested but not interested in pursuing someone who's not interested in me. I also low-key think she's slightly autistic with little dating experience which is fine and kind of cute but leaves me confused when it comes to her body language and other things.

Am I being a clingy bitch who's trying to ruin a good thing or does she want to end this relationship but isn't brave enough to tell me?

>>33456767 (OP)
Me, a satanist getting the occasional glimpse into christian life

>>33456767 (OP)
I may not be qualified to answer this, because I'm not religious, but to date someone for nearly four months, and still insist that she doesn't want to be his girlfriend, seems pretty fucking odd to me.

The one thing that gives me pause is that, if she is autistic, what she thinks you mean by "girlfriend", and what you think you mean by that, may not be quite the same thing. So maybe, rather than getting hung up on the label, it would be better if you thought of some examples of things that would be different if she were your girlfriend, and then ask her about each one of those things *individually*, rather than trying to bundle them all together in a way she may not understand.

>>33456767 (OP)
Biblically, you have to be a high quality christian man to even consider being a husband. Dating is not biblical. You are not supposed to date just for the fun of it. There is nothing spiritual to be gained from simply dating. If you date, then make sure it is for no other reason than mate checking.

Are you even a real christian that actually practices biblical chrisitanity? If no, then you shouldn't date her because you will ruin her life.

>I also low-key think she's slightly autistic
I see you're not redpilled on autism. It's a personality type, not a mental disorder. It doesn't matter if she is so-called "autistic".

You are being way too feminine about this whole thing. You are like "oh my FEELINGS and her FEELINGS". (If you are christian, and that's a big "if"), then you are looking for a high-quality mate, not a fun toy to share feelings with.

Finally. Christianity is not this pathetic weakling feel-good religion that the great satan USA has made it out to be. It's a serious religion and if you don't want to participate then don't participate.

>>33457081
>>33457080

>>33456767 (OP)
If your goal is to be able to cook a nice meal one day, you can't achieve it by depriving yourself of cooking - and then magically whip out a 10/10 grandma-slayer.

If you eventually want to be intimate with this girl you both need to be escalating intamacy, which doesn't appear to be happening.

>>33457090
strawman

>>33457080
>Me, a satanist getting the occasional glimpse into christian life
You're more than welcome to join any time, my brother. There's a seat waiting for you at Christ's table and you would be welcomed back as a prodigal son. I wish you the best and may God bless you.

>>33457108
There is literally nothing to go back to. My life has improved immensely since I left the church 20 years ago. Literally everything is better.
I am looking forward to dissociating into the void at the end, not afraid that I might have upset the great manbaby

I really appreciate all the replies. Going to ignore the meme ones but:
>>33457081
>to date someone for nearly four months, and still insist that she doesn't want to be his girlfriend, seems pretty fucking odd to me
I would say that she's on the cautious and inexperienced side. But so am I (inexperienced) also we're both 31.
>rather than getting hung up on the label, it would be better if you thought of some examples of things that would be different if she were your girlfriend, and then ask her about each one of those things *individually*, rather than trying to bundle them all together in a way she may not understand.
This is actually great advice, thanks! I do think that I may be putting a little bit too much emphasis on this label. Because even before this conversation and rejection of the label, I've met her close friends, her cousin (who attends the same church and lives with her), and I've asked if she would be open to meeting my best friend and his wife if they're in town (they live in another city). I'll think about this.
>>33457085
I'm trying to be the best man I think that she deserves. I am a Christian and would call myself one. As is she. We attend church together, we talk about our faith pretty often, she asks me to pray before meals. And I have a relationship with Jesus Christ. But I am being feminine, honestly, I've always been more emotional/romantic as well as idealistic, and think she's very analytical and reserved. And this relationship has highlighted a lot of insecurities/anxieties that I have that I really have been leaning on the Lord to help overcome.

>>33457148 continued:
>>33457096
>If you eventually want to be intimate with this girl you both need to be escalating intimacy, which doesn't appear to be happening.
I agree, but we've escalated slowly. But check this out, one day I dropped her off at her place and I really wanted to kiss her. This is about 1.5 months into dating. I felt like I should've gone for it or asked but didn't. On my drive home I called her and told her this. She told me that she believes that kissing is something that should be reserved for deep committed relationships. I told her, ok, thanks for letting me know your perspective and that helps me understand you better. It was disappointing but I was OK with it, it wasn't the end of the relationship. But honestly, maybe that was the start of my insecurity of "damn, is she really even into me?" We always hug and I've held her hand plenty, we went out on Friday and saw a band and I asked if I could have her hand while they played (this was sitting down at a coffee shop lnot a big concert) and it was nice. But I always initiate.. But this is just physical intimacy, I've also got the sense that the emotional intimacy could be stronger but I'm not sure how to get deeper. Any tips?
>>33457122
I am looking forward to dissociating into the void at the end
This sounds like hell. Praying for you anon.

>>33456767 (OP)
you cant be a christian if you browse 4chan
>also
>hold hands on dates
Delete this thread naow

>>33457122
>My life has improved immensely since I left the church 20 years ago. Literally everything is better.
I know, and I believe you, brother. I knew you left the church. It’s why I called you a prodigal son. I’ve little doubt that you experienced some soul-flaying, mind-numbing misery at church. That’s why you left. I am at least gladdened to know you are doing better. Just want to remind you that the seat still waits for you. That should you fall or falter, you can take refuge in God, you will not be rejected. Those who were tasked to emulate Him failed you. I pray they answer for that one day.

Anyway, just wanna send you my well wishes and regards, even if you don’t intend to return. Live well and stay safe

>>33457184
>you cant be a Christian if you browse 4chan
Really? I probably shouldn't but I ctr+click most coombait threads and don't masturbate, half this website is porn that's true so I avoid it. But the near occasion of sin is a problem, it's really a bad habit but I've been coming here since 2008.

>>33457201
I’m a disciple of Christ’s too. Been here since ‘06. That anon assumes Christians cannot be sinners lol. We can be just as great of sinners as anyone else. Sometimes more so. Difference is we know our sin, others don’t know their own sin.

I think this site is one of the best places a Christian can be, to share fruits of faith with the hungry. I hate it when other Christians try to make it a clique or a hotel and refuse to see eye to eye with those who fell away from church.

>>33457219
That difference is self-righteous. Others know that christians consider their actions sinful.
I'm not going to be made to feel guilty, wrong, sinful for being intimate with new partners outside the confines of marriage.
I couldn't give less of a shit about wearing mixed fabrics.
I don't justify the destruction of entire populations as righteous fury.

christans hold twisted and self-conflicting views and then say shit like 'we know our sin, others don't know their own sin'

absolutely bonkers

>>33457240
>christans hold twisted and self-conflicting views and then say shit like 'we know our sin, others don't know their own sin'

Not twisted, consistent with the truth. Truth is the non-Christian is treated with leniency, with mercy. Should be, anyway. “Forgive them father, for they know not what they do.” They can stand before the Father and have at least one good defense. A Christian who knows sin, knows what it is, and elects to do it anyway, their responsibility is heavier. They know what they do. And here is what Christ says of so-called Christians who know what they do:

>Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

Notice He says for the non-believer:
>Forgive them, Father, for they know not of what they do.

For the believer:
>Depart from me, I never knew you.

It’s because to be Christian is to carry a very heavy cross, a responsibility. One that yeah, you see them falling and failing all the time. Does that surprise you?

>>33457316
What surprises me is that you don't connect that this is self-righteous judgement of others' actions.

There is nothing noble about forgiving someone for doing something which has been deemed sinful by some ancient, rearranged, rewritten texts.

My magical unapproachable deity says your actions are inappropriate! But I forgive you for commiting them because you don't know how much it upsets him.

It's mental illness

>>33456767 (OP)
>This check I tried to gaslight into thinking I actually give a fuck about her religion saw through my disgues, she must be autistic

Just give up and go fuck a drunk girl like a normal creep

>>33457080
laughed out fucking loud at this, fucking genius xDDDDDDDDD

also I would kill myself or be alone than wait 3.5 months for a gf to spread her legs for me. Physical touch is so important. God doesn't dictate what you do in your personal bedroom, he's just a thought experiment. Its all in your and the other disciple's heads

You should both talk to an older person you trust from your church. I understand the hang ups some christian women have about dating but it's kinda weird that she still doesn't consider herself your girlfriend.

>>33456767 (OP)
What is even the point of having a girlfriend without sex like this? Ask her to marry you or you just have a friend.

>>33457436
I would cum on my wall and give it a name and draw a face on it before I agree to having a gf for 3.5 months without fucking her

>>33457474
matter of fact, I'm gonna start fucking my wall right now, yeah, that's it, you've just convinced me

Lot's of funny comments lol, but anyway OP here again. Here's an example of something that makes me think she's just meh about this whole relationship
>went out Friday
>Saturday she texts me asking about the band we saw
>I replied within like 30min
>she replies like 5hrs later saying thanks
>sit with her at church yesterday but didn't text afterwards
>this morning at 7 ask her out to something this Thursday
>no reply during the morning (she commutes on the train) or during the day (sometimes she text during the day but not always), probably will reply after 5
This shit makes me feel like I'm being a clingy bitch but...it's been almost 4 months, I expect some enthusiasm or urgency. And again, when we had that conversation I said, if you don't want to keep doing this, tell me. I don't want to date someone who's not interested in me.

>>33457744
Have that conversation again, tell her to make a choice, hear that she isn't interested, move on to better avenues

Even if Jesus is Lord , he wouldn't want you to wait 3.5 months for a chance at pussy that probably won't even be that exciting once you get it

I say this as a guy who had a gf for 5 years, I took her virginity, we fucked like rabbits for the entire relationship and she was absolutely submitted to me and committed to pleasing me and I loved and adored pleasing her as well. It was the best time. And a Christian girl like that won't suddenly start putting out, she will forever be weird about sex.
Get a girl who has a healthy relationship with and view on sex. Sex is important. This is a fact of life.

Unless you just want to be a "provider" with a cuck chastity cage on your cock

>>33457090
Not seeing a single problem on the right, there.

>>33457085
Calls a neurodevelopmental disorder a personality type.

I wonder what you'd classify a cleft palate as... quirky?

>>33457764
Why'd you include that thing about having a gf for 5 years? I'm not trying to have sex before marriage? I've had sex before when I wasn't a Christian, I'm not looking to just have sex and my issue here isn't that we haven't had sex. This obsession with sex is weird. Also, you're no longer together with this girl, so what gives?

>>33457744
>.it's been almost 4 months, I expect some enthusiasm or urgency.
Which is fair enough. Except that you said she's autistic. So how does she know how much enthusiasm you expect, or how much is appropriate? Maybe she feels that messaging you is bothering you and *she* doesn't want to seem clingy. Maybe other people are advising her to play it cool and let you do the chasing, and she's taking that a bit too literally? Have you tried actually talking to her about any of this?

>>33457085
>I see you're not redpilled on autism. It's a personality type, not a mental disorder.
What the actual FUCK are you talking about?

>>33457344
>What surprises me is that you don't connect that this is self-righteous judgement of others' actions.

I see the dots, and I know why you make those connections. I am telling you that's not how they connect. I thought they did too, I was only an atheistic occultist before following Christ.

>There is nothing noble about forgiving someone for doing something which has been deemed sinful by some ancient, rearranged, rewritten texts

Yes there is. Let's take an example from modern times, let's take text from right now, today. Your text, your words. You think of me as mentally ill. Presumably, you dislike my words, you won't bother considering them sinful, since you have no need for the word, but you find what I profess to be contemptible, no? Things you find to be absurd, things that you may think makes people blind to what you think of as clarity. And you judge it as mental illness.

So I ask you, what difference do you have to a Christian? You judge the same, you just don't use the word 'sin'. So what of the main difference then, do you forgive? Would you forgive a Christian for what they believe? For not knowing your personal convictions?

Some important things to consider:
You are both 31.
She has said past relationship, that she ended, moved too fast.
You have held hands in church.
Normal dating timeline is 6 months, then marriage.
You told her that you were dating, looking to marry on the 4th date. She kept seeing you.
How is her relationship with her parents? Have you met them? Asked them for permission to dat her? Right now, from what you have told us, it seems that she probably started dating a guy, thry had sex, and then it ended when he wouldn't marry her afterwards.
Having a discussion with her about building a future together is a good idea. Ask her what she wants, make sure your goals align, or at least are close. But most importantly, pray about it. We're just anons; ask the Holy Spirit.

>>33457844
>You have held hands in church.
not in church desu but on other dates
>How is her relationship with her parents? Have you met them? Asked them for permission to dat her?
Never met her parents, they live in the state but a while away.
> Right now, from what you have told us, it seems that she probably started dating a guy, thry had sex, and then it ended when he wouldn't marry her afterwards.
Maybe? I doubt it and that'd be surprising, but desu if that was it I'd be OK with it.
>But most importantly, pray about it. We're just anons; ask the Holy Spirit.
Thanks this is right.

>>33457806
The difference is that I am coming from a space that is auditable and yours is coming from a space that requires one to accept someone else's description of god as an unverifiable fact.

Yes, it is safe and commonly acceptable to consider those disconnect from reality, as mentally ill in one way or another.

we cannot agree because your cornerstone is the almighty word of a higher power that
1) trust me, exists
2) told some influential men who already wielded the power in society, what words to put in the almighty's book

Judgement in itself isn't 'wrong'. But Judgement based on arbitrary rules is oppressive and wrong.
Have you studied Greek to read and understand the original Gospel of Peter? I bet you have not.
That is the difference between you and me. One of us is accepting an unverifiable ruleset under the guise of salvation.

>>33457777
>This obsession with sex is weird
No anon, this obsession with not having sex and not touching yourself is weird. Whether you want to admit it or not you love sex, and you're looking for a kiss from this girl, for a cuddle, you still want physical affection which she isn't giving.
I included the part about my ex because I'm trying to convey to you that you're choosing a life where even after marriage, you'll be fucking lucky if you get sex. These devout Christians are born into an environment where sex has a lot of taboo attached to it. So sure you can get with her, but you're going to have the dryest fucking sex life ever even after marriage. If you think that the gates of heaven open up after you take the sacred vows of marriage and suddenly you're having sex and all feels right think again. And you're a man. Men need sex. First of all this hot/cold bullshit is really gay on her part, and even if she was to open up, in the best case scenario it leads to an unfulfilling marriage. You can still be Christian and get with a Christian, but also realize that you're a man, and get a Christian Lite girl who actually is really horny and wants to have sex - this girl clearly ain't it.

And why do I talk about sex so much?? Because sex is fucking passion and sex is a huge part of love almost so much so that it can be seen as love itself. This is biological, we exist in large part to reproduce.

And about my ex yeah people break up and don't always work out, just like it's not working out for you right now with this girl.

>>33457777
Also I forgot to say, nice fucking digits Jesus, those are some holy Las Vegas digits god damn

>>33456767 (OP)
Let me simplify this for you so you can understand.

If you ask her “will you be my gf” and she says anything other than YES, she doesn’t want you. It doesn’t matter what she says, a girl that wants you will never say no to that question. Find someone else.

>>33458045
Some women just want to fuck. Also, their opinion of you might change after you've fucked them. So this hyper-autismo way of looking at things is not always accurate.

>>33458045
Hmm I've heard this before. Why didn't she agree to end things then? I have the opportunity to, and I told her that I'd she felt like she wanted to it's fine and I'd prefer that. That conversation sucked and I asked her the next day the same, if she wanted to end things then OK but that if she wanted to continue with getting to know me, that's something I wanted. She agreed to continue. She's not dating anyone else, I've met her friends and cousin. It's not like she goes to another church so I've been with her every week we're both in town, it's not like there's another guy. What gives?

>>33458191
I hate complicated girls with signals like that. Ask her for an answer and make it into an ultimatum , or keep suffering idgaf

>>33458239
Not sure if an ultimatum is the thing to do but I'm considering reaprocing the conversation. I was considering waiting for another month or so but based on my own feelings this may have to happen sooner

OP again. She actually still hasn't responded. Now I'm curious, on one hand she may just be busy and seeing friends after work or working late. I also know her cousin is moving this week. But on the other, something could be up or she's giving me clues by being distant
I asked a question so it's weird she's not responded. Who knows

>>33456767 (OP)
>met at church
>homeschooled
>le based right wing woman
>not ready to be your gf
>pace of texting slowing down
It's ogre dude, also the girl is a massive red flag
Don't fall for the trad waifu theme all women are whores

>>33456767 (OP)
>I told her that if she doesn't see it working out to tell me because I'm interested but not interested in pursuing someone who's not interested in me
I get where you're coming from, but this kind of thing (especially depending on the phrasing) risks scaring off a hefty proportion of women.
It either comes on too strong and makes the more flakey women instinctively pull away, or it comes off as lacking confidence if you try to soften it by giving her an 'out'.

Basically, you can't expect to force clear answers from women. They're going to do whatever they feel like anyway, and you're probably not going to get a spoken notice beforehand. Sure, sometimes bruteforcing things will work, but just like a frontal assault, it's a risky tactic that can backfire spectacularly. That's the risk you take for getting quick results.

I don't think you have anything to lose by keeping it going and hoping for the best, but if you want certainty, it's best for it to come within--have a plan and stick to it, and allow her to make her own choices towards it. No ultimatums should be given, but I'd go with steering conversation towards "what are we" and giving signs that you want a serious relationship over time, while also keeping in mind (and only in your mind, not saying it to her) your limit on how much time you'd invest before cutting your losses.

Disclaimer: I've never been on a date, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I'm just an autist who has seen a lot of relationship threads.

>>33457863
>I would be fine dating a 31 year old who got pumped and dumped
The absolute state of this board

>>33457956
> Judgement based on arbitrary rules is oppressive and wrong.
Not that guy, but you're either arguing for anarchy or are kind of gutting your own argument by rejecting anon's premise while having no real "objective" counterpoint to stand on.

>>33458664
With what reading comprehension did you ingest this sentence and decided it must mean anarchy?

Society can exist with rules established through experienced hardship without the need to resort to magical god laws.

jesus christ

>>33458664
>>33458927
You guys need to get a hobby.
Anyway OP here again, she replied to me and said she can't do the thing I proposed but suggested we get pizza at a place on Wednesday.

>>33457085
>It’s a personality type
You’re right, Chris Chan isn’t mentally ill, just has a quirky personality. Brilliant insight!

>>33458927
>With what reading comprehension did you ingest this sentence and decided it must mean anarchy?
Because, without appeals to some kind of metaphysical absolute (God, to Christians), every rule is arbitrary at the end of the day. Unless you'd care to explain why your values are objectively good.

>>33458986
This is the age old fallacy that morals can't exist without a god to tell you what they are. Its not accurate.

>>33458986
Counterpoint: some people absolutely do need moral rules backed by metaphysical authority.

>>33458966
Enjoy pizza togethsr, OP!

>>33458986
If you need God to tell you not to fuck your sister, murder the guy who made you angry in traffic or extort your neighbor you have a major problem, friend.

>>33459039
This doesn't change the fact that 'god's rules' are arbitrarily decided by man

>>33457405
Yeah I like to pump and dump too.

>>33456767 (OP)
>she's made this mistake before
uh oh
body count: 30+

>>33457080
larping online isn't a religion

>>33459025
>>33459044
Not my point, fedoras. I'm not even religious.
My point is that sneering at "arbitrary rules" is the pot calling the kettle black. Whatever you want to call "good" is arbitrary *especially* if you don't default to metaphysics or religion. Claiming to be a being of PVRE REASON begs the question of what even is a legitimate basis for rules to you.

>>33459415
>Claiming to be a being of PVRE REASON begs the question of what even is a legitimate basis for rules to you.
Humans don't need religion to know how to be kind to each other, and religion certainly doesn't guarantee kindness, autismo.

>>33459459
>still not getting it
Again, I'm not religious, and my point isn't to say that this or that value set is the "right" one. It was solely to push back on the nonsense that arbitrary rules are somehow unique to religion.
Go ahead, tell me why kindness is objectively good.

>>33457085
>It's a personality type, not a mental disorder

It is 100% a mental and physical disorder. Sensory stimulus issues, gut flora microbiome differences, learning to speak early but then reverting to pointing at a young age. Incredibly empirically confirmed and replicated.

You don't know what you're talking about and need to shut the fuck up

You were rejected and put in the "maybe" pile of suitors. Sorry.
Any further questions?

>>33459494
It's an evolutionary trait for survival. It's not as necessary in today's technological world, which is why you get so many soulless golems running around causing havoc.

>>33456767 (OP)
dump her if she wants you she will pursue you
your attention is valuable and she is disrespecting you. if you withdraw your attention then it becomes more valuable due to the scarcity principle. if she doesn't care then she really doesn't care about you at all brah

>>33456767 (OP)
> she's made this mistake before when she was unsure and regretted it
Will complete honestly, this is going to be her second mistake messaging someone who is posting about it on 4chan of all places.

You should never come back her and make a new life for yourself or you're damning her to a poor relationship where you probably hide the very fact you even browse this place.

Think about this, you could literally be a blemish on this poor girl's life.

>>33459494
>Go ahead, tell me why kindness is objectively good.
Absolutely every significant achievement in human history has been a team effort. Humans are social creatures and function better in groups. Things that reinforce the group dynamic make everyone's lives better. I'm sure you know the story about Heaven, Hell, and the giant chopsticks.

>>33457090
Based

>>33456767 (OP)
what's her body count?

It shouldn't be this hard. If she wanted you it would have happened by now.

>>33456767 (OP)
you're overthinking a bit, let her set the pace if you're that interested in her. If not find someone who actually wants what you do and doesn't make you wait forever just to go on pointless dates for no reason.