Thread 33500829

The vast majority of men are mediocre when it comes to physical attractiveness (facial attractiveness, height, body frame), wealth, status, game, education and overall SMV. Most of us work normal jobs, make boring amounts of money and are either plain looking or displeasing to look at. There’s not much that sets the average guy apart from others, as opposed to men who are of more value to women, meaning men who are physically attractive, of medium or high status and ludicrous financial prospects. All of this sounds unpleasant, but its the truth and needs to be acknowledged.

Most men can certainly get find a women willing to date them, and even marry them in many cases. That being said, the chances of a women dedicating herself to an average man out of genuine love and a true desire to commit herself to him is low. The fact of the matter is that most average men are or would be settled for, due to the women in their lives not being able to secure a relationship with a more desirable man that they would pick over their BF’s / husbands anyday.

Lets first establish why being settled for as a man is harmful and is to be avoided at all costs. Women settling for men is a conscious decision they make, in which they are fully aware of all factors in play. They know that they want a man they most likely won’t be able to tie down or even get a chance to interact with, due to the high demand and low supply of those types of men (men who are more valuable across multiple measures, as mentioned before), they understand that their need to be validated by means of commitment from another man still needs to be met, and are willing to pick someone they are not sexually attracted to and even disappointed with to meet those needs, so long as the individual man in question meets some baseline requirements as she lowers her standards. Most women do not make these decisions maliciously, they don’t so with the intention of trapping a man in a less than ideal relationship.

However, this does not negate the negative consequences that men have to deal with as a result of these actions.

During the initial stages of a relationship, a woman who settled may be at ease with the relationship, and may even convince herself that she is fully satisfied with her choice, despite not actually being content, as a way to cope with the distress she most likely feels due to partnering with a man she feels is not good enough for her. This is the calm before the storm. It’s only a matter of time before she, slowly but surely, is unable to maintain her composure. Indifference and bitterness will follow. The realization of her being unable to remain content the way she thought she would be able to will cause chaos. She will begin resent to her BF / husband, view him as less than and no longer have any sort of respect for him. This is all a part of her taking out her anger and frustration out on him, as she will most likey feel victimized by the situation she finds herself in. Any women in this sort of relationship (which happens much more than we’d like to admit) will experience insecurity and feel as if she has less value, as a result of being unable to obtain commitment from a man she truly desires and being in a relationship with a man she settled for, a man who she perceives to be of lower value. She will internalize this dynamic and take it as a reflection of her own worth. The psychological distress accompanying this thought process will guarantee a hostile and aggressive backlash towards the man she feels is the cause of her crisis. This will continue to develop until she realizes settling for a man she never wanted was a bad idea and divorces him, cheats on him with men she’s actually sexually attracted to, or until they both die at an old age after spending decades in a miserable household.

>>33500841
An average man will find themselves confused as to the cause of this, will be unable to find a solution, as there is none, and will not experience a satisfying and healt

break

hy relationship as he may once thought was going to occur.

Most men who are settled for are blissfully unaware that they are being settled for, when in reality, their GF’s / wives would have never chosen them had they been unable to pair with a man of more worth. None of this is theoretical, this happens all the time, society chooses to turn a blind eye to it because it’s uncomfortable to acknowledge. Because of this ignorance, they don’t understand the danger they’ve put themselves in of being mistreated and discarded by a woman who’s commitment to them is no where near as solid as either one of them thought it to be. So to all of the men who may feel being settled for isn’t a bad idea, think again and do not underestimate the consequences that may occur.

But this all assuming average men are unattractive to most women. Can’t a woman truly love a statistically average man? No.

From research that has been conducted, it is known that the physical attractiveness and athletic ability are the only two attributes that reliably predict romantic interest from women, and that intangible traits, such as personality, values, and interests play virtually no part. What types of men are physically attractive and arouse sexual interest in women? Lets look at the literature.

>>33500844
HEIGHT / FRAME

Let’s talk about height. According to a 2007 study, only 4% of women would tolerate a relationship in which the man was shorter (this is settling), and men taller than average height are viewed as more masculine than shorter men. Due to signaling undesirable genetic traits in the stature department, women perceive men who are average height and short as less than ideal, which explains the strong and now predicable dissatisfaction towards them, not only in this study, but in most research conducted. It is well known that tall men are perceived by women to be more attractive, have greater fighting abilities, and are instinctually viewed as fully developed males. It is also known that taller men on average have more sexual partners, are more likely to occupy positions of high status and authority in the workforce (Blink by Malcolm Gladwell), and are consistently more likely to receive social interactions from women).

What does “tall” mean? The average heights for men and women in the USA is barely 5’8” and 5’4”, respectively. From data gathered, women report the most satisfaction when partnered with males 8 in taller than themselves. When connecting these two data points, we can infer that a man has to be 6’ inorder for a woman to be potentially satisfied with him, and can also infer female preferences for even taller men as female height increases. Knowing that only 14.5% of men reach the height of 6’, and even less grow taller than that (Blink by Malcolm Gladwell ), we can safely assume that women are disappointed with the stature of most men, being that the difference between the average male height and ideal male height is rather large when visually compared, even if 4 inches doesn’t sound like a huge disparity on paper. Women don’t always admit it, but the fact that they respect taller men more than short men shows when observing interactions.

>>33500855
Now, onto frame. Much like height, the shape and proportions of a man are also reliable indicators of female interest. The relationship between shoulder width and hip circumference has been known to influence a mans attractivness. Women very much enjoy the sight of a man with broad shoulders and a small waist, mainly because they give the impression of increased musculature, robust upper body strength and a larger overall body. One study took the initiative to study the relationship between shoulder-to-hip ratio (SHR) and height, and came across interesting findings. In short, women reported higher SHR’s made taller men appear even more visually attractive, almost as if a high SHR present in a tall man made him exponentially more desirable. The same study demonstrated that higher SHR’s did not affect the attraction women felt when presented on short men. Higher SHR ratios are also proven to be positively correlated to the number of sexual partners. Similar to height, a high SHR was perceived as more masculine and better at fighting than men with low SHR’s. The same did not hold true for short men.

We know how rare the ideal male height is. How rare is the ideal male SHR? First, we know that the ideal ratio specifically is 1:1.61, women from various cultures around the world repeatedly report being most attracted to this specific set of proportions. The average male SHR falls short of the ideal at 1:1.1. Regarding the exact percentage of men who do possess the ideal SHR, research has yet to be conducted to discover the total amount. However, from the figures known, the assumption that the ideal male SHR is rare is a safe one to make. Whats also safe to assume is that, much like height, most women view the physical frame of most men as boring, uninteresting and elicits no attraction, being that most men don’t even come close what has been discovered to being what most women are interested in when it comes to SHR.

>>33500860
FACE

Not surprisingly, the facial attractiveness of a man, much like height and SHR, are phenomenal predictors of sexual interest from women. Shocker, I know. Women are known to show sexual attraction towards men with more “masculine” features and greatly prefer such for reproduction as opposed to men with less masculine features, as those men signal poor genetic quality. What’s interesting is that women prefer less masculine features when selecting for men to be caretakers, as they perceive them to be weaker and less masculine, but also as more honest and more invested in a parental role (this is settling). From this, we can extrapolate that women subconsciously know facially unattractive men have fewer options, attract less mates, and are therefore better options to ensure faithfulness, paternal investment, financial stability and lifestyle. So what we can infer here is that, women look for men that they perceive to be unattractive, assume (correctly) that they have much less sexual oppurtunites than themselves, take advantage of this, and thus, be able to use them as a fallback for when they need stability for their children and / or lifestyle. They won’t be nearly as sexual with them as they were with men they were attracted to but, as we’re discussing, they will settle.

What’s also known is that women express even more sexual attraction and preference for men with more masculine features during the fertile period. So, in a nutshell, men who are married probably aren’t with women who are attracted to them. Also, men with facial qualities that fall short of what’s perceived to be masculine do not have the ability incite arousal in women during the monthly period in which they are at the peak of their sexual arousal and fertility, and men with masculine faces are greatly preferred by women who do not utilize hormonal contraception.

>>33500864
The dynamics of condom use is another relevant factor to take into consideration. As expected, a 2019 study found that women were more likely to require condom use if having sex with men who they deemed to be “less attractive”, so as to prevent their (what we can infer to be) unwanted and poor genes from reproducing with them and being less likely to use condoms if having sex with attractive men, indicating acceptance of the “superior” and “desirable” genes for reproduction. It’s may be upsetting to hear for most men, but it needs to be accepted: men with less masculine faces are viewed as less desirable and genetic material that is to be avoided. Most men don’t have the facial qualities that qualify them as truly desirable prospects to women for the purposes of reproduction. Being aware of this is much preferable to being ignorant in bliss. Women are hardwired to recognize poor genetic quality in men, avoid it, and seek out men with higher quality genetics for their children. It is what it is.

Wealth

Wealth / status also play a huge role in all of this, and the findings are just as bleak for average men. As expected, women are always going to overlook men with humble earnings for men with more ludicrous bank accounts. Men with less money are deemed less attractive. We also know (women are much more likely to reach an orgasm while having sex with rich men. This dynamic is almost certainly related to the fact that women pay more attention to high status men than they do to low status men, who don't possess the financial assets to stand out to woman or compete with wealthy men.

>>33500873
According to the U.S Bureau of Labor Statistics, men between the ages of 16 and 44 earn an average annual income of $49,500. Most definitely not an amount of money that could make a man be perceived as financially successful by most women. These findings and numbers indicate that most men would not be able to provide an exciting courting experience for most women, provide comfortably so that a women could have a living and have access to desirable commodities, or be a symbol of status that most women want in men. Instead, average men of predictable incomes are background characters that most women most likely not have as their first choice.

Not only is the above true, there’s also an interesting relation between some of the factors we’ve discussed already. These findings left me surprised that someone had looked into the matter and that such a concept even exists, but not surprised at the results. This is the dynamics regarding male height, income and how to they relate to eachother. We’ve already established that tall men are sexually attractive to women while short men are not, but a research paper found some interesting details when it comes to the effect of income on the perception of short men from women. Turns out, men standing at 5’3 are required to earn $175,000 in addition to the average income inorder to be considered just as attractive as a 6’3 male earning less than $60,000 a year. That amount is quite literally the same amount of 4 separate average incomes, and if your genetics didn’t bless you in the lower limb department, you need to earn that insane amount to be considered on the same level of attractiveness as 5’11 men. For reference, only 18% of americans will earn six figure incomes, and thats not excluding women. So while the chances for men hitting that mark isn’t impossible, it’s slim. Probably much less for short men who aren’t monetarily compensated as much as tall me are.

>>33500881
Reflection

In conclusion, most men would benefit from avoiding any long term, committed romantic relationship with a woman, being that most of us don’t measure up to the ideal. It’s clear that average metrics by which us men are qualified by do not result in doting or affectionate women who truly wish to love or exhibit passionate behaviors. Settling is the only outcome that can result, and the consequences of that has already been established, and is obvious why it should be avoided.

There are men on this earth who have been blessed with great inheritable qualities that have in turn led to better social outcomes, making them all around more desirable. Good for them. Life’s not fair, but that doesn’t mean us plain fellas have to be resentful towards them. If I were 6’3, wide, handsome, smart, athletic and well off, I would absolutely lean into all of those to maximize my happiness and quality of life. I hope they all take advantage of what they’ve been given to use it to the fullest, glad some of us got a better deal. Happy for them.

But for the rest of us, we gotta keep pushing along in things that can work out for us. It’s definitely painful and disheartening realizing that being born with less than ideal traits puts you at a major disadvantage, especially when most guys really do wish to have a women in our lives that love us, a woman that truly wants us as the man in their life. In order to cope with this, it is imperative that we are self aware enough to know where we most likely stand in the perception of women based on an objective assessment of our own attributes, and decentering women from our lives. Too many of us guys pedestalize women and their approval way too much, and it leads to heartache, depression and disappointment. I’ve struggled with this personally for quite a while, and it truly is a fucking bitch and half to have as demon.

>>33500887
But we gotta keep moving along.

It might not be women, but there’s other things that we can rely on to feel fulfilled. Educate yourself, read history, take care of your health, lift weights, get stronger, help others, develop your professional career, build yourself up with what you can. Focusing on these other things can help massively in alleviating much of the distress caused by pedestalizing women, and can even result in some social improvements in some cases. Being able to accept the reality of the situation, shrug your shoulders and say “it is what it is” is a powerful thing. It’s not easy to get to that point of being genuinely unbothered, but I feel that’s it possible and necessary.

The world has changed massively since the advent of technology and social media, its affected the dynamics of dating and romance completely and its important for all of us, but more importantly men, to be acutely aware of this, so as to not blindly and naively misplace optimism in our prospects and so that we can make changes to our behaviors and expectations accordingly.

Seeking a woman to have a genuine relationship with is getting to be a lost cause for most men nowadays, I’m going to save myself the headache and just try my best to become a better man for myself. Don’t worship women, better yourself, and stay strong fellas.

>>33500829 (OP)
Sir, this is an advice forum.

>>33500829 (OP)
>the chances of a women dedicating herself to an average man out of genuine love and a true desire to commit herself to him is low
Stopped reading here. Whoever wrote this doesn't understand women (or men) and you can safely disregard anything else they say. Women are not your mommy. No woman anywhere ever 'dedicates herself to an average man out of genuine love' besides your mom. They don't love you unconditionally because you're such a special special boy. They love you because you're a man who can bend the world to his whim and survive and navigate problems and bullshit better than the next asshole. That's it. Women are not men. They value different things. They want different things. They parse reality differently. They do not have this honorable notion of 'love' for you as men understand it. They never did and they never will. That is reserved for their offspring and children. If you're a man, you're alone. Faggotmaxxing or whatever internet meme term you're using to optimize your life and obsessing over your heigh and dress and jaw shape is a waste of time and will never attract women which is why you've read 0 (zero) success stories about it here or anywhere else. Go be a man like they were for 150,000 years of human canon. The rest of your problems will sort themselves out.

>>33500829 (OP)
I won't read a wall-of-text opinion piece pulled out of some bitter, subhuman moron's ass.

>>33501017
why should a man dedicate to a woman who will only love him conditionally? you're not entitled to a male

>>33500829 (OP)
if women can't appreciate the men they settle for we're just driving ourselves insane and are better off alone. that is my assertion

>>33502306
Do you love a woman unconditionally? Didn’t think so.