Thread 33547541

I had a big fight with my bf, and I broke things off with him. I found out I'm pregnant though, and my mom has been telling me all the stuff about abortion being murder so now I feel like I have to have the baby.

Should I tell my ex or just leave him out of this?

>>33547541 (OP)
Tell him with ACTUAL proof. This shit will haunt you back in the future when your baby grows old and finds out the truth themselves.

>I had a big fight with my bf
You'll deal 2 problems at the same time. You had a huge fight. This will be prolonged for years if you refuse to do all of this.

>>33547541 (OP)
>Should I tell my ex or just leave him out of this?
Tell him, he has to know. It's his kid. Show proof, do it before he finds someone, do it before it's too late.

>>33547541 (OP)
Tell the ex, hash it out, go and seek couple's counselling, get the problem fixed together as a team, don't meme yourself with depressing despairing doubtful ideas of couples counselling being a bad or miserable experience, it's not, it's actually insightful and fun, it can and does change relationships for the better. Then you raise that kid together and bond over it. It will be difficult. But it's doable.

Arguing and disagreeing is normal and can even be healthy. Every couple has disagreements. What separates the good relationships for the bad is the good ones always execute a solution and a resolution after each big obstacle, they have a way to solve problems. The shit relationships don't.
The shit relationships can become good once they learn how to solve them. That's where couples counselling comes in.

Do that and you will have a good life after.

>>33547541 (OP)
based tokusatsu mother

>>33547564
>>33547716
I can't just get back together with him even with all this. This isn't going to be some happy family thing, he isn't going to change and be better for me or he would have already.
I'll let him know about the baby. I'll probably need some help and the baby will probably want to know about him I guess. I just hate the idea of having to spend more time around him.
>>33547745
I just like the idea of a good guy out there who's just trying to help people.

>>33547541 (OP)
just abort the baby, dont ruin your life by bringing a fetus into this hell hole of a world

>>33547541 (OP)
think about yourself not about others

its better being selfish

>>33547541 (OP)
>I need to be taught that abortion is murder.

It's literally a human being by definition. Of course it's murder. I will admit that the entire situation is messed up since neither of you are christian are are therefore just acting on your own fallible whims.

>>33547832
>This isn't going to be some happy family thing
No it's not. There exists no big happy family. There does exist stable families. Stable ones can push through hard shit with dignity. Shit ones don't.

>he isn't going to change and be better for me
>For me
Yes correct. Because no one can change for someone else. Nobody, not man or woman or beast. People can only change if they want to change for themselves. They have to be convinced to want it. Again, this is where couple's counselling comes in.

>I'll probably need some help
Exactly why that kid needs a father and why you need a dependable husband.

And you think he can never be that husband, I get it. He needs to think that he can. Couples counselling, OP. Take that suggestion and keep it in your back pocket. I am not asking you to accept it today or tomorrow, but do it soon. You won't regret it

>>33547859
stfu

>>33547832
I never said you should go back with him with the first post above. I know you don't care any of this shit anymore but your baby will in the future and so does the baby's father.

Deal with this with proof so no further bullshit goes on. That's all you have to do and you're done.

>stuff about abortion being murder so now I feel like I have to have the baby.
Tell him if he wants to keep the child. I don't think you wanted to the baby because of this.

>>33547541 (OP)
>my mom has been telling me all the stuff about abortion being murder so now I feel like I have to have the baby.
Ignore your mother. If you don't want to be pregnant right now, end the pregnancy. Don't let your mother destroy your entire life.

>>33547900
>Don't let your mother destroy your entire life
>But DO become a mother who destroys the life of the child inside you

>>33547541 (OP)
>Should I tell my ex or just leave him out of this?
If you do actually have the baby, you will want to get your ex to pay child support for the next 18 years, in which case he'll have to know. But if you're going down that route, don't tell him until after the baby is born. The baby is NOT going to bring you back together.

But the best option by far is to have an abortion and don't tell him.

>>33547859
>t's literally a human being by definition
It is literally, by definition, NOT a human being, and won't become one for quite some time yet.

>>33547541 (OP)
Also OP to any and all people recommending an abortion: Ask them if they are married and have children. Watch them all grow irritable and dodge the question or say 'no'. Then notice they are giving you advice on an experience they have never seen through to the end.

Be wise.

>>33547908
There is no child. There is an embryo which *may* eventually become a child if it is left alone. It is not a child yet.

>>33547920
>NOT a human being
Yes it is. It's not going to grow into a tree or a frog or a microwave. It's growing into a human because that is exactly what it is.

>B-but muh no heartbeat muh no brain muh no consciousness

Go and smash up American Bald Eagle eggs. They are not eagles yet. They got no heartbeat or neurons firing off. Then notice you get charged with a federal crime and arrested for years.

Then realise the juxtaposition: We can destroy human life in the womb, but not fucking bird eggs.

>>33547924
>all people recommending an abortion: Ask them if they are married and have children.
Yes, I am married. Yes, I have three children. Yes, she absolutely should have the abortion - it's the only sensible choice. It's a bit weird that you think being married and having kids would change anyone's perspective on that; why would it?

>>33547938
You have no idea how many weeks OP is pregnant. Most women don't find out until 2 weeks and that's IF they expected to be pregnant. Most pregnancy tests can only read from 2 weeks accurately.

And OP wasn't expecting to get pregnant or intending. Meaning she is probably WAY past the embryo stage. By 4-6 weeks the heartbeat is already there.

Please stop speaking on shit you know nothing about.

>>33547961
Nope, don't believe you.

>>33547951
You're contradicting yourself. If it's already a human being, it cannot grow into a human being. You admit that it's going to grow into a human being, so you're admitting that it isn't one now.

It's like saying an acorn can grow into an oak tree: that statement only makes sense because an acorn *isn't* an oak tree now, it's merely something that can become an oak tree later on, under certain circumstances.

>>33547967
>You have no idea how many weeks OP is pregnant.
Clearly abortion is still an option, otherwise why would she have been discussing it with her mother. There's nothing else we need to know.

>>33547992
Semantics, not a contradiction. You aren't an old man now, but you will be. Know why you have the capacity to become an old man? Because you are a human. Know why the fetus has the capacity to become a baby? Because it's a human.

>Inb4 but it's just a fetus m-muh fetus
Latin word for offspring;child.

It's a human offspring a human child.

>>33547976
>Nope, don't believe you.
Of course you don't, because your brain is too limited to be able to process any beliefs, or even any facts, other than the ones that you acknowledge to be desirable.

The woman who is now my wife had an abortion when we'd been together six months, and it was absolutely the right decision. We already knew at that point that we wanted children eventually; we also knew we didn't want them then; so we ended the pregnancy, waited till the time was right, and then had kids. I love them more than life itself. But neither I nor my wife has ever had the tiniest flicker of doubt that having a termination then was the right call. Why would we? What is (or was) there to have doubts about? If you don't want to be pregnant, end the pregnancy. It's that simple.

>>33548045
>it was just more convenient to kill my child, chud
OP listen to how pro-abortion people sound

>>33548010
>You aren't an old man now, but you will be.
Correct. I am not an old man now. I have the capacity to become one in the future. And in precisely the same way, the occupant of OP's womb is not a human being now, but has the capacity to become one in the future. You keep proving yourself wrong. It's hilarious.

>>33548055
There wasn't a child, anon, that's the point. There was merely a pregnancy which was terminated long before a child ever came into being. Killing a child is the worst crime imaginable; but abortion merely prevents a child from ever existing in the first place, which is morally no different from choosing not to have sex when your wife is ovulating.

>>33548071
>The occupant
Notice how you have to change your language to avoid the fact of what that life is.

>>33548087
>There was merely a pregnancy which was terminated long before a child ever came into being.
when exactly does the child come into being?

>>33548102
Don’t bother asking. His mind is one of “out of sight out of mind”. He’ll say it’s when the baby is out of the womb.

>>33547908
Imagine getting knocked up by some asshole and then blowing over $300,000-400,000 for 18 years because of a religious mom lol. Could literally pay for a house instead and good luck with any college

>>33548153
Imagine killing your child

>>33548092
>Notice how you have to change your language to avoid the fact of what that life is.
What language do you imagine I was using before?

>>33548102
>when exactly does the child come into being?
An interesting question, but one there is no need to answer. You don't need to know when it's going to happen, you just need to know that it hasn't happened yet.

>>33547832
>I just hate the idea of having to spend more time around him.
Should have thought about it before opening your legs to just anyone and letting him cum inside you.

These people here are sick, they want to kill babies to avoid responsibilities. Imagine how many deaths they caused. I can't imagine how they put themselves before to sleep.

What is inside her IS A HUMAN, there's no way around this. It has 50% of her DNA and 50% of the man that came inside her. It's a unique being with its own DNA.

>>33548241
>It has 50% of her DNA and 50% of the man that came inside her. It's a unique being with its own DNA.
I just gently scraped the inside of my cheek. On the tip of my finger right now there are living human cells that contain my unique DNA. Should I grant them human rights?

>>33548216
>An interesting question, but one there is no need to answer. You don't need to know when it's going to happen, you just need to know that it hasn't happened yet.
Horrible answer. Obviously you should know when le clump of cells becomes a real child or you don't have any foundation to stand on.

>>33548248
>Should I grant them human rights?
Yknow what fuck it, yes go ahead and do it

>>33548248
They contain *your* DNA. Fetuses contain DNA unique to themselves. That is why they are not part of a woman's body, but rather a unique being and killing them is murder. You are a complete ignoramus if you think this is the same as your cheek cells

females have the inalienable right to cull

even if you legislate against it there are no shortage of coathangers or witches brews, spawn selection is part and parcel of the eternal female

>>33548253
>le clump of cells
You are a clump of cell, can I also kill you? No. Your attempt at dehumanizing the baby is ridiculous.

>>33548253
>Obviously you should know when le clump of cells becomes a real child or you don't have any foundation to stand on.
They become humans as soon as hey have is own unique DNA, thus using condom is not killing, but removing the baby from your uterus is.

>>33547541 (OP)
Your a woman. Consequences dont exist for you. Just do whatever. Tee hee.

>>33548381
I disagree with abortion I was just referring to the clump of cells meme that pro abortion people always use

>>33547845
based and /thread

>>33548341
So, if I get cancer, which has a mutation that causes cells to divide uncontrollably, I need to treat the cancer cells as having human rights, because their DNA isn't identical to that of the rest of my body (or to anyone else's)?

Identical twins don't count as human because they don't have unique DNA?

>>33548381
>They become humans as soon as hey have is own unique DNA
So in your mind, using an IUD is murder?

>>33548010
So menstruation is is a genocide then and so is jerking off or cumming at all since million will die and only one wins the competition. It's not a human being, it's a lump of undifferentiated cells. Are stem cells a human being because you can program them to differentiate into gametes and thus produce a zygote ?

>>33548381
It's not ridiculous as those aren't differentiated cells and hasn't developed either consciousness or other senses even. It's nothing literally. Like a tumor.

>>33548496
>So in your mind, using an IUD is murder?
I know my keyboard is crap, and many keys are not working properly. But where did you get that from? Do you even know how IUD works? The IUD mainly prevents fertilization, so the sperm usually never meets the egg. It's just like a condom. For the looks of it, you don't even know how pregnancy works, that's why you are saying it's not murder when it clearly is. I'll explain to you:

When sperm fertilizes an egg, a zygote is formed. Biologically, this zygote is a new, genetically distinct human organism, it has a unique DNA and the potential to grow into a fully developed person. From this perspective, life begins at conception.

Murder is defined as the intentional killing of a human being. If you define a human being as starting at conception, then deliberately ending the life of a zygote, embryo, or fetus is intentionally killing a human being. Therefore, abortion fits that definition.

Some say: “It’s not murder because the fetus isn’t conscious or aware.”

Consciousness isn’t a requirement for being a human life. A toddler, newborn, or even someone in a deep coma lacks full consciousness, yet killing them is still murder.

The fetus, from conception, is a genetically unique human organism with the potential to develop into a fully conscious person. Ending its life intentionally is still ending a human life, regardless of current mental awareness.

>>33548496
>cancer
Cancer cells are not independent human organisms. Even though they have mutations and unique DNA, they are part of the mother’s body.

Fetuses are independent human organisms. From conception, a zygote has its own genetic identity, a full developmental potential, and is a distinct living human being, not just a collection of rogue cells.

>>33548341
A person can have different DNA in different tissue, a condition known as chimerism. Or a genetic mosaic. Would it be considered a murder if for example someones appendix has that foreign DNA and you "kill" it ?

>>33548524
>muhhh consciousness
I knew some braindead would say that. So just read what I typed >>33548539

>>33548543
>A person can have different DNA in different tissue, a condition known as chimerism. Or a genetic mosaic. Would it be considered a murder if for example someones appendix has that foreign DNA and you "kill" it ?
I'm not the guy you replied, but, chimerism and genetic mosaics involve different DNA within the same organism, but all tissues are still part of one living human being. Removing an appendix or killing a cell with “foreign” DNA does not kill a separate human organism, it just removes part of the existing person’s body.

The fetus is not part of the mother’s body in the same way. From conception, it’s an independent human organism with its own DNA, development, and life trajectory. Ending its life is intentionally killing a separate human being, which is morally and biologically different from removing an organ or cells.

DNA uniqueness alone does not define independent life. You can have genetically distinct cells inside one person without creating new human beings. Murder requires intentionally killing a separate human life, which a fetus is, but an appendix or mosaic cell is not.

>>33548512
>are *blah blah blah retarded cope*
You are either fucking retarded or doing a damn good impression of someone who is. Unique DNA, natural process, simple as. Abortion is murder and abortionists should be put on the breaking wheel

>>33548543
By the way, you probably murdered some babies or incentivized people doing without even studying it, right? For fucks sake... If you want to murder babies, and incentivize people to do so, just tell it as it is, don't deny scientific knowledge to fit your ideology.

>>33548539
>Even though they have mutations and unique DNA, they are part of the mother’s body.
Can you please stop contradicting yourself as you clearly have no idea what you're talking about or how to properly lead a constructive conversation. First you say that a separate DNA of a fetus grants it human rights and now another clump of cells appears and that doesn't apply because it doesn't suit your stubborn distorted views. What about a teratoma containing neurons, teeth, bones, hair ? Would you consider that a tumor to be removed or a fetus. Some can even produce hCG like syncytiotrophoblast (later placenta) does.

>>33548512
>So menstruation is is a genocide then and so is jerking off or cumming at all since million will die and only one wins the competition
I'm not the guy you replied to, but read this >>33548539

It's the same as IUD, condoms... Jerking off and menstruation is not murder. For fucks sake, can't you read it? LMAO

>>33548558
I dunno about putting abortionists on breaking wheels. I think abortion is murder too but let’s not get all zealous and talk about killing them. Be consistent, respect their lives as much as the unborn even if they hate their own lol cuz thats why they see no humanity in the unborn and dont mind killing em its because they hate themselves and dont even feel human either

>>33548546
Clearly you are the braindead one. You go by the assumption (or as you call it definition) that human life start at conception. I don't. It's important to properly understand and define things before you go around convincing people in your personal beliefs.

>>33548568
>another clump of cells appears and that doesn't apply
Are you dumb or are you making an impression of it like this guy here said >>33548558
I already answered you, you clearly cannot comprehend the complete absurdity you're talking about. IF I let the chimera develop, or don't jerk off, will a baby be born out of it? I think that's the best way to explain, but even by saying like this, I think your small brain won't be able to understand, LMFAO

>>33548568
You’re comparing a tumor to a baby, bro. When get a scan of a tumor it doesnt suck its own thumb or laugh or cry, by week 20 of the baby ultrasound you can see the baby do all of those.

You’re being a dumbass

>>33548539
>Cancer cells are not independent human organisms.
Look, anon, I know you're struggling with this, but you understand that every argument you make just weakens your case, right? You make a huge deal about how something being genetically unique makes it human; you're confronted with an example if something that is genetically unique human tissue but is manifestly not human, and an example of something that clearly is a human being despite not being genetically unique, and the best you can do is say "um, er, um, er, um, er, let me shift the goalposts". There's no point in arguing if you can't acknowledge it gracefully when you've been proven wrong. I'm sorry, but you are badly out of your depth, here. Just let it go, okay?

>>33548585
>Clearly you are the braindead one
>muuh consciousness
Can I kill toddlers? Can I kill people that are in a coma? You are the brain dead one, you didn't even read this >>33548539

For fucks sake, kill yourself.

>>33548572
A toddler or a newborn do not lack consciousness.

>>33548601
>A toddler or a newborn do not lack consciousness.
Can you prove it? It's something you can only experience in 1st person. Dumbass. Braindead.

>>33548600
Yes you can kill people that are in the coma by "pulling the plug" and people often do that if family consent to it.

>>33548539
>Do you even know how IUD works?
Yes, but you clearly don't. It doesn't prevent fertilisation, it prevents the fertilised egg from implanting in the wall of the uterus.

>>33548602
Can you prove a fly or a spider don't have consciousness ? Yet you still kill them.

>>33548598
>Strawmen
LOL

You are just guilty of killing babies and incentivizing people on killing theirs too. Since you can admit it that you like killing humans, your coping mechanism is saying it's not murder, LMFAO.

>>33548605
>Yes you can kill people that are in the coma by "pulling the plug" and people often do that if family consent to it.
yes, they pull the plug, and it's KILLING IT. IDIOT WHORE.

IF I GO INTO THE HOSPITAL AND PULL THE PLUGS BY MYSELF, WITHOUT ANYONES CONSENT, WILL I BE SENT TO JAIL FOR MURDER? HELL YEAH, YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT CUNT

>>33548613
comparing babies to spiders and flies now. first tumors now spiders.

>>33548606
Taking progesteron pills to treat endometriosis prevent fertilisation specifically. Should we treat it ?

>>33548613
>Can you prove a fly or a spider don't have consciousness ? Yet you still kill them.
So dumb... OMG I don't kill spiders and flies because they don't have consciousness, I kill them because they aren't human. But hey, a baby is a human, LMAO

See, you don't know what you're talking about.

>>33548617
Chill there you double digit redneck. No need to yell when you feel intimidated by someones logical superiority and your lack thereof. I realize there is no point in having a conversation with a dogmatic religious nutjob.

>>33548629
>muh spiders are like babies
>cancer is like baby muhh
Yes, run away, that's all you can do

>>33548622
>baby
Fetus is not a baby. At least not up until some point.

>>33548617
Are you all right, anon? Do you maybe want to sit down and have some chamomile tea or something?

>>33548637
>Fetus is not a baby. At least not up until some point.
You still couldn't articulate how it's not a baby.

>>33548622
>I kill them because they aren't human.
Are you equally comfortable killing chimpanzees? Just curious.

>>33548640
>Do you maybe want to sit down and have some chamomile tea or something?
Nop, I want you to go fuck yourself. Don't come here telling others to kill babies as if it's nothing, and then telling me to chill, you piece of excrement.

>>33548644
>Are you equally comfortable killing chimpanzees? Just curious.
I never killed any chimp, dogs, rabbits, I avoid killing mosquitoes as well. So what? This is irrelevant to the argument.

>>33548641
How it is a baby ? Oficial definitin of a baby is that it's a very young human offspring and it's counted as that after birth. This is how people use the term baby. Now you can argue yes but I can define it differently. Yes you can and hope that the use of the word baby will get an entirely different meaning. Point is you are saying that there is no difference between a newborn and a developing blastocyst which is nonsensical.

>>33548647
hahahaha literally kys and do the world a favour you pedo priest

>>33548654
>it's counted as that after birth.
That's nowhere in the dictionary.

>Oficial definitin of a baby is that it's a very young human offspring
Agreed.

>>33548666
Look at these numbers 666

LMAO

Go to hell devil. I'm not Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant, I follow God, and killing kids is devious. You know that, because there's many demons inside of you.

>>33548669
Yes a very young child. Again what does it even mean ? We can (and probably will due to natural evolution of languages) maybe use the word differently. Definition of a word comes from its repeated usage. In different languages you have different words for those and they specifically mean something. In my country per se nobody calls fetus a baby. Language is insufficient to describe it properly. You have to make a distinction at one point. What you are saying is your personal opinion on what constitutes as a human being which is ok but it's also bad to go around claiming something simply based on your religious beliefs as they are dogmatic in themselves. Just follow what you wnat.

>>33548687
>Again what does it even mean ?
It means what it means. A fetus is what it means, it means literally a young offspring but in Latin, same definition, different languages.

Look, there's no point in arguing any further. I know it's murder, it's engraved in my heart. I know it's murder, because science says it is. Alright? You can believe what you want, but you can't claim ignorance anymore.

>>33548676
>I follow God
omfg so you're even worse than the usual religious nuts. i could've sworn you were some kind of a mormon or evangelist by the way you articulate your blind convictions but this is even better ahhaahh so what exactly species are you then ? african voodo religion ? hinduist ?

>>33548651
It's relevant because you're obviously more comfortable killing a fly than a chimpanzee or a whale, despite chimpanzees and whales not being human; which means that, when you say the reason you're okay with killing a fly is because it's not human, you're full of shit. The real reason you're okay with killing flies is because they're not intelligent - they don't have brains. And neither do human embryos.

>>33548693
We're having a discussion, it doesn't have to be a debate where I need to convince you and you need to convince me. Why are you competitive here? Again Latin is a language and as such is used to give names medically to things. If you really wanna go strict a word fetus means offspring (general offspring not unique to humans). Also etymologies of some words are not supposed to define them completely. There are numerous medical terms which were initially thought to be one thing and then proven to be something else yet the word for them remains the same for the sake of convention.

>>33548647
Anon, please, sit down, take a few deep breaths. Absolutely no one in this thread is saying you should kill babies. Literally no one I promise. Some people are explaining why something that you think would be killing a baby actually isn't, in order to put your mind at rest; but no one is saying we should kill babies. Please stop straw-manning.

>>33548722
Exactly but anon remember that you cannot argue reason and logic with a dogmatic religious person. They have been indoctrinazed deeply to believe something and doesn't want to think about it for a bit. They formed their firm opinion and stance on something and are not prone to thinking around the box or even within the box. They tend to rationalize things in order to fit their agenda. I know it because I was once one of them. Then I grew my pubic hair.

>>33548747
I know, I know, but it's not for their benefit that it needs to be said. They may be beyond saving; but there may be some other people reading this thread who aren't yet, and we write for them. They need to be able to say "Hmm, that's right, that doesn't make any sense now that I think about it."

>>33548792
You have a point there.

>people advocate a fucked up incel life with a single mother over just putting you out of your misery when you're not even conscious
Grim

>>33549710
>people advocate killing your child
Grim

>>33548833
His point was to compare babies to cancer tumors and spiders or flies. He gets a kick out of making people question reality using semantics it's called gaslighting

>>33547541 (OP)
tell him. If he welcomes you back, then live happyly ever after. If not, get an abortion.
Don't care about you mother's words. Your body, your life, your future, not hers. Just tell her what life could have the child without fater, (hint: multiple traumas). Maybe abortion is murder maybe not, I am not a judge here. But the pure math is this: one life (?) taken or at least 2 riuned (maybe 3 because as you talk about your mom's influence I assume that you are still young)

>>33550694
>Multiple traumas
You know you are just telling people who had childhood trauma and survived it that they are better off being dead and shouldn't have been born?

>>33550697
Yes. If I know my child could never have a proper life, I would not want it. Getting a baby should be a logical decision not out of passion or ego.
t. child without father

>>33550704
You don't actually believe that. If you did you'd have committed suicide yourself already

>>33550707
Trust me, I was close few times. I still don't have the will to live, just exist most of the time.
However stopping someting is completely different than not even starting.

>>33550710
Not really different. Life started in the womb, when that is we could debate all day. Heartbeat is 4-8 weeks. 6 - 8 for brain activity. Your life started about then for all intents and purposes. And you say it should have been stopped. Well here you are some decades later and you think it shouldn't be stopped because why? Not that I think you should stop it I think you ought to live because I know exactly what it's like to be born to a very abusive and very shit hand in life too and I know there's a way to make a better life too. But I ask again, theoretically, what difference does your start/stop metric make? If you think the trauma is so bad it's worth stopping life in the womb then it must also mean it's worth stopping via suicide right?

>>33550719
>Life started in the womb, when that is we could debate all day. Heartbeat is 4-8 weeks. 6 - 8 for brain activity.
Memories are not developing before 30th week. Brain activity is not consciousness and not even thinking.
>If you think the trauma is so bad it's worth stopping life in the womb then it must also mean it's worth stopping via suicide right?
Nope. The damage is done already. If I could have chosen if I want to born like this or not I would not born at all. But it was not up to me, as most of my childhood. Psychology was almost nonexistent back then here and nobody knew what traumas can make. Now people are way more informed in this topic too anbd can/should make better decisions.

>>33550755
>Memories are not developing before 30th week.
What does that matter? Can you remember being 30 weeks old in a womb?

>Brain activity is not conscious and not even thinking
Same's true for sleep, and comas, and being on certain drugs, hell you could argue same is partially true for people dissociated from cptsd or childhood trauma and they have those autopilot episodes where they don't actually think, just react.

>The damage is done already
Yes. And you think it's not possible to love with the damage and grow larger than the damage, why?

>Should make better decisions
And why can't someone with childhood trauma make better decisions themselves and live better? Abortion aside, why do you feel unable to make decisions for yourself for example? You are seeming like you feel unable to make a decision to push through trauma.

>>33550676
His point was to highlight the logical inconsistencies in your thinking.

>>33548539
>Murder is defined as the intentional killing of a human being. If you define a human being as starting at conception, then deliberately ending the life of a zygote, embryo, or fetus is intentionally killing a human being. Therefore, abortion fits that definition.
So, terminating an ectopic pregnancy is also murder, right?

>>33550861
>His point was to highlight the logical inconsistencies in your thinking.
Not sure if it was my thinking directly since multiple anons got into it but I disagree with him anyway so whatever. No he did a poor job at highlighting the logical inconsistencies because he did not make any direct refutations, what he did was take conventional logic and turn it inside out to try to disprove the conventional logic which is a cheap way to go about it and doesn't even accomplish the desired goal and example
>How do you know flies or spiders don't have consciousness?
>You kill them all the time and yet you won't call that murder yet when someone kills an unconscious fetus then it's murder all of a sudden?
I paraphrase him I know but same gist. What makes his counter a weak counter is you can use that inside-out logic for anything, such as: if we can kill flies who are conscious surely it's okay to kill living human adults. If we can do this then we can do that. It's weak arguing and poor form

Also the insincerity of it too because we know he doesn't care for flies or spiders either but feigns a defense for them for the sake of mounting a flimsy inverted logic. And the reason he does this presumably is to maintain the subjectivity of the topic so that he cannot fall under scrutiny of objective measures.

>>33550869
>Ectopic pregnancy
See that's a good argument that's more like it. Much better than making comparisons to tumors or flies or skin cells from inside of mouth cheeks.

Nta you reply to but I am against abortion and I think terminating ectopic pregnancies is not murder because there's a moral difference between murder and killing. Terminating ectopic pregnancies is under the category of killing and it's a morally grey category neither moral or immoral, this is because whatever immorality there is, is cancelled out by a strong moral motivator, saving the life of the mother + understanding the baby cannot make it to birth anyway even if you wanted it to. Ectopic pregnancies kill both the mother and child, so termination in that instance is the only sane option

>>33547541 (OP)
Abort or ruin three lives in one.

>>33550905
>Ectopic pregnancies kill both the mother and child,
They can, but they often don't. My mother had an ectopic pregnancy and didn't even realise it until she went in to have her tubes tied a few years later and they found one of her fallopian tubes was already ruptured.

The fact that the baby is going to die anyway doesn't even begin to justify committing murder. If someone has cancer and is probably going to be dead in six weeks, but doesn't want to die yet and wants to make the most of the time remaining, is it okay for you to shoot him? Clearly not. The fact that he's going to be dead in six weeks doesn't make it okay to kill him now.

And killing one person to save the life of another is also morally repugnant: if someone needs a heart transplant and will die without it, it's not okay to kill someone else to obtain a donor heart.

So I'm afraid this is yet another example of you forming opinions without being in full possession of the facts and without requiring your beliefs to make logical sense.

Clearly terminating an ectopic pregnancy *is* the right thing to do because THERE'S NO BABY. There is simply something that cannot ever become a baby, but which may endanger the life of the mother if you allow it to continue doing its thing; and so that's not even a decision. Of course you terminate it.

But if you think that a fertilised egg is human then terminating an ectopic pregnancy *is* murder; taking a Plan B pill is potentially murder; using a copper IUD is murder. I would find your beliefs less offensive if they were at least logically self-consistent.

>>33551590
>They can, but they often don't.
That’s at least somewhat reassuring. Any idea on the fatality stats? How many are fatal Vs non-fatal?

>The fact that the baby is going to die anyway doesn't even begin to justify committing murder.
I like your zeal, man, I do. But I can’t say with intellectual honesty I agree with your example:
>someone has cancer and is probably going to be dead in six weeks, but doesn't want to die yet and wants to make the most of the time remaining, is it okay for you to shoot him?
Certainly not, of course. But a cancer patient isn’t a baby in a womb, in particular, the cancer patient’s life is not potentially fatally linked to another life. If the cancer patient dies, their mother or father will not die with them as a consequence. An ectopic pregnancy that goes bad, real bad, if the baby is permitted to develop only to die, the mother goes down too. (probably).

>And killing one person to save the life of another is also morally repugnant
Not always. Not if the mother for example agrees to die to save the kid. At that point it’s a sacrifice and a noble one too at that point.

>So I'm afraid this is yet another example of you forming opinions without being in full possession of the facts and without requiring your beliefs to make logical sense.
So pick better analogies and comparisons and make it make sense.

>Clearly terminating an ectopic pregnancy *is* the right thing to do because THERE'S NO BABY.
Then the ectopic pregnancy happen by itself? Yes I am being facetious, we both already know where we split hairs. You deny designating life in the womb as life at all. I don’t deny the designation, but you do. You seem to think I do this out of empty belief, I don’t. I do it from experience, I’ve seen what unborn babies do at certain stages during ultrasound scans, seen em smile seen em kick around, respond to sound outside of the womb, the works. I cannot force my mind to look at that and say “Theres no baby”.

>>33551590
>They can, but they often don't.
There's a high chance that they do and even if they don't it's extremely rare that ectopic pregnancy is even viable to the fetus. Most don't even develop placenta. And that's a lame argument since it involves health issues. We're talking generally in a normal case. If a woman wants to abort or not. Also what would you say in the case of parthenogenesis ? Disregarding the stance on free will and the extreme rarity (only one case) but there's still a possibility, mother didn't have a choice not to have an offspring and isn't ready to have one. Why would she give birth there ?

>>33551590
Is this the religious nutjob again or someone else ?

>>33552128
It’s the guy who argues unborn babies aren’t children or babies at all, but his arguing style is one where he play’s devil advocate against his own position just to refute it later. I respect the flare and his style but 4chan post formatting don’t really convey it well.

>>33547541 (OP)
Almost can not fundamentally understand how people can unironically advocate for the abortion of a healthy fetus
Like, having healthy children around is infinitely better than not having them, even if they are someone elses
Why would anyone
>POSSIBLY
not want you to have a child, except that
>>33547961
every single person I have seen irl who denigrates other people having kids always has a large happy family themselves
Think this is why Planned Parenthood have women with their newborns on their commercials
Encourages the evil, counterproductive mentality that (you) shouldn't have kids, but it's everyone else's choice

Should keep the kid first and foremost to spite these freaks

>>33552362
>Why would anyone not want you to have a child
Not OP but it's fairly obvious why a lot of people make it their goal to talk people out of it, it's because of projection, they project their own despair and use this as their motivation to talk people into abortions. Usually it's because they had a shit childhood or a rough relationship to their own folks and so they automatically assume that it's better to kill the unborn than let it live because they project themselves in the womb of a stranger they never met, they grasp at their own bad experiences and then try to count another person's fate using that. It's why you will see so many people who don't know OP or their family or friend network or anything about their life but will boldly say with a sense of false certainty: "You will ruin your life/his life/it's life."

Which is very ironic because if you talk to them about causality of how the fetus will surely become a child (which is does), they will tell you that you're stupid or delusional for fixating on future events. But in the exact same breath they will then try to forecast future events for other people's pregnancies and other people's parenthood. It's a kind of intellectual schizophrenia.

And the tragically humorous part is, the fetus becomes a child with 100% causal certainty. A shit childhood or shit life is entirely uncertain. So they are the ones who end up placing bad faith in the relatively statistically weaker outcome. And they do this from a place of emotion but they mask it as 'logic'.

>>33547541 (OP)
Just kill the baby if you’re not going to be with the guy because it opens up your options with men later on. Though the odds suggest you are bound to run away with a kid anyway.

>>33552116
Ectopic pregnancies are *never* viable for the embryo in the long term. If left unterminated they are risky for the mother - can even be fatal sometimes. But the idea that they're a guaranteed death sentence for the mother is not correct. If death for the mother were an absolute certainty then even a pro-lifer might be able to cobble together some sort of trolly-problem justification for it - better one life than two - but if you're trying to balance (in the mind of a pro-lifer) committing murder - because (in the mind of a pro-lifer) even a fertilised egg is a human being and has human rights, and killing it is therefore murder - against what is merely a *risk* to the mother's life, then terminating an ectopic pregnancy logically can't be justified.

Which is just another way of saying that any pro-lifer who approves of terminating ectopic pregnancies has a moral system that lacks any kind of logical coherence, and you should therefore ignore their opinion.

Of course ectopic pregnancies *should* be terminated, because there is no baby - there is merely a not-yet-a-human-being embryo, which in this instance has no chance of ever becoming a human being even if you do nothing. So there's nothing to be gained by not terminating it, and potentially quite a lot to lose in terms of endangering the mother.

But the reason for bringing it up is that it's yet another instance where pro-lifer moral systems run slap bang into a reductio ad absurdum as soon you think about them for a moment.

>>33552401
This is true, but what is most obnoxious is people who you know clearly have stable lives still calling for others to end the chance for them to have that
Using the lower instinctual lizard brain to tear other people down because
>I want MY offspring to inherit the earth, not yours
>Don't want you taking an infinitesimal amount of resources from the mouths of MY kids, or myself to feed yours
As if their own kids can reproduce asexually and don't need to have any peers at all
subhuman reasoning

>>33552427
>
Which is just another way of saying that any pro-lifer who approves of terminating ectopic pregnancies has a moral system that lacks any kind of logical coherence, and you should therefore ignore their opinion.
Or it perhaps says you argue in bad faith and rely on archetypes to argue with rather than discuss with individuals, and it perhaps also says your idea of 'logical consistency' is black-or-white paradigms and that you struggle to perceive moral nuance or shades of grey.

You say "in the mind of a pro lifer" yet you don't exactly display an acknowledgement that you only have your own mind to be inside of. You cannot know what's going on in anyone else's.

>>33552465
>This is true, but what is most obnoxious is people who you know clearly have stable lives still calling for others to end the chance for them to have that
I choose to not believe their claims of being parents themselves, honestly. Because the alternative would be to believe them which would be worse because I then have to acknowledge there are people out there who can see the baby in the scans, watching them move, watching them play in the womb, watching the giggle in the womb (all real occurrences with hundreds of recording examples) they can even feel the thing kick at then through the belly of their wife, responding both to touch and father's voice. And yet despite all of this, the parent says "There is no baby" really turns my guts. At that point all I can assume is the person has some blunted empathy or some shit.

I texted him a pic of the pregnancy test and he immediately called me. I didn't pick up. Eventually he came over in person, I explained everything to him and he's saying I need to get the abortion.
The idea of the abortion feels wrong in my conscience but he made a lot of good points that neither of us is in a great position to take care of a baby.

>>33552535
>He's saying I need to get the abortion
Did he ask if you wanted it or not? Remember, your body your choice right? If its wrong for him to say you need to keep it, it'd be wrong for him to say you need to abort it.
If you feel it's wrong and don't want to abort, then don't abort.

Do the female strategy you got at your disposal, see how he reacts to your decision to keep it. If he loses his shit and starts getting really aggressive and pushy for you to abort then you have your answer: He don't want responsibility and the inconvenience of that would matter more to him than your own gut feelings

>>33547920
>It is literally, by definition, NOT a human being

It is a human being according to objective genetic science. Just say "I like murder when it benefits me". Just be honest with yourself.

>>33552535
>neither of us is in a great position to take care of a baby.

Take a look at pic for a reality check. This is a Mucabal tribal woman being a mother just fine in an environment that doesn't even have brick houses or actual money. What sort of 'position' would prevent you from doing the same, presuming you are a first world western woman living in a wealthy country? Pause and think about it. All a kid needs is milk from the mother, warm blankets and kept away from hostile weather, basic baby food which you can make for cheap at home, and baby clothes and accessories are so thriftable for cheap it's not even funny. I was able to get a years worth of clean clothing like hats, boots, gloves, onesies and etc for just over $100. Netflix for a year is more expensive.

Also your own mother is telling you to keep the kid so presumably it means you won't be alone in the mothering process, you'll have her to take over when you get tired or overwhelmed

>>33552466
>You cannot know what's going on in anyone else's.
You mean pro-lifers don't actually believe all the stuff they scream about 16 hours a day, 365 days a year? No, I think it's pretty fucking clear what they believe.

>>33552641
Who are they? You're still talking in archetypes anon. Some of us have nuance, you can be anti-abortion and not identify as a pro-lifer. You can be pro-abortion and not identify as 'pro-choice'. Not everyone speaks in the language of newspaper headlines. Christopher Hitchens the famous atheist spokesperson refused to identify as pro choice and only considered abortions to be used for last resorts. Does this make sense to you?

>>33552571
>It is a human being according to objective genetic science.
We've been through that one already, several times. The cells I gently scrape from the inside of my cheek with my fingernail are living human cells that contain a full set of human DNA. They do not constitute a human being. Something being alive and genetically human does not even begin to make it *a* human. Can you please come up with a better argument than this? This just pathetic. "Objective genetic science"? Jesus fucking Christ.

>>33552657
>You can be pro-abortion
NTA, but literally no-one is "pro-abortion". What planet do you live on?

>>33552664
>The cheek cells again
OP knows she is pregnant from testing. OP also knows the pregnancy test can only read results from 2 weeks, that's reality so far so good, you understand?

Now OP has to calculate her last known ovulation/period cycle and the last time she had intercourse. (Remember, it can't have been less than 2 weeks ago, because reality).
Chances are it's been quite a number of weeks, maybe a whole month.

4 weeks? 6? 8? Let's go with the lease number to be fair to your argument. Take a look at the picture: This is what you compare the same as flakes of skin from the inside of your cheeks:

Do you understand why your argument isn't sticking the landing?

>>33552671
Pro-abortion means in favor of access to abortion. Which could mean any number of limitations or nuances. Pro-choice typically implies the right to choose no matter what on a whim.

>>33552535
This thread was a fucking mistake

>ctrl+f abortion - 34 results
>ctrl+f adoption - 0 results

I'm tired of all this ant-human bullshit

>>33552671
An enormous amount of people are pro-abortion
It's just they usually want your kids to get aborted, not theirs

>>33552706
>An enormous amount of people are pro-abortion
>It's just they usually want your kids to get aborted, not theirs

It still astounds me too anon. Crazy how fervently people will try to convince other people to abort their children when it's not even their child to begin with yet will hypocritically remind the woman "your body your choice. But do abort the child because your life will be ruined, according to me."

>>33552706
Also don't bother recommending adoption, because they will claim to know what it's like to live in adoption centers (plot twist, they've never even visited one in real life) and they will say how brutal and harrowing the adoption experience is and will still say it's better to abort lol.

(Punchline: They are indirectly sharing to anyone alive today who have adoptive parents that they were better off aborted or dead)

Abortion is a quick and easy decision that will haunt you worse and worse the older you get.

If you don't want the baby, put it for adoption.

>>33552549
>>33552590
I told him I was having the baby because I don't believe in abortion, and that I don't want to be around him anyway so if he doesn't want to be involved that's fine just not to speak to me or expect to see the baby.
He got mad about how I was trying to force him into being a deadbeat dad and we argued about why we broke up and it sounds like we kind of have a plan.
He's gonna tell his parents what happened and get them to help put us up somewhere so we have room for the baby. I'm gonna finish out college while he supports us, and then if I still want to leave I keep custody and I can support the baby with my degree.
I feel like this is a trick to get me to stay with him though, and I feel weird about it.

>>33552990
>feel like this is a trick to get me to stay with him
a trick like not getting an abortion?

>>33552990
>He got mad about how I was trying to force him into being a deadbeat dad

Sounds like either he feels or worries he won't be a good father, or that he is angry that you would force him to confront the shame of being an absentee dad. Either way he's passing the buck a little. You aren't forcing anything, he was the one who ejaculated into you after all, that was his choice.

>He's gonna tell his parents what happened and get them to help put us up somewhere so we have room for the baby.
That's good at least. Sounds like this pregnancy has put a flame under his ass and hopefully will make him become more responsible.

>I'm gonna finish out college while he supports us, and then if I still want to leave I keep custody and I can support the baby with my degree.
Fair enough. Let us hope that this wake up calls for him will stir him into being more dependable and strong headed. Perhaps you won't need to break up but we'll see won't we?

>I feel like this is a trick to get me to stay with him though, and I feel weird about it.
Doubtful. If he wanted to trick you into that, he'd have told you to keep the baby. His first reaction was to tell you to abort, which tells you this isn't a trick, but it's about his self esteem and his own conscience starting to finally turn some cogs in his brain. He wants to avoid shame or being a deadbeat, that's why he said you were "trying to force him into being a deadbeat dad".

I don't know the guy but he sounds half-immature like he has a tendency to pass blame or deflect and abdicate responsibility but at the same time has this internal integrity to try and not be entirely useless either. Maybe he'll wise up.

Anyway good luck to you and baby and congratulations on the baby. I know it's not the smoothest of circumstances but having a kid isn't as bad as you think, it doesn't take away your life it adds to your life. It will be hard but life is always gonna have hard stuff. a kid is at least hard work that pays off

>>33551590
>The fact that the baby is going to die anyway doesn't even begin to justify committing murder.
What are you on about?
If there is zero chance of delivering to term, and guaranteed permanent harm, potentially death, from allowing further development, then "murdering" the embryo is absolutely justified.
I'd call a prohibition against ending life a rebuttable presumption. There are plenty of unpleasant cases where it's justified, even when it results in the death of innocents, because morality exists at the societal level. Individual moral choices and responsibility are in relation to it, not just to the individual in a vacuum.

>>33553078
So, if a cancer patient is going to be dead in six weeks, but wants to hold on and enjoy the time he has left, is it okay for you to shoot him in the face?

If an embryo is a human being, then killing it is murder. The fact that it is going to die six weeks from now anyway makes no difference to this: it's still murder. If you think that the fact that a human being is going to be dead in six weeks makes it okay to murder him now, then you must also be okay with shooting the cancer patient in the above example, and I assume you probably aren't.

Now if, by contrast, you think that ending the life of an embryo is *not* murder, because it isn't a human being yet, *then* your position would at least be consistent

>>33552808
>Abortion is a quick and easy decision that will haunt you worse and worse the older you get.
Bullshit. I've met dozens of women who have had abortions, and none who have regretted it.

>>33552684
>Do you understand why your argument isn't sticking the landing?
Look, anon, I'm doing my best to be polite, here, I really am, but you're making it very hard. Only someone who is extraordinarily stupid could possibly imagine that anyone "else* could be stupid enough to need an explanation of the things you are explaining. We know all this stuff. We've known it since we were 13. Anyone with even a glimmer of intelligence would assume that everyone else already knows all this!

It's pointless continuing this, because your brain doesn't operate at the level it would need to in order to understand what I'm telling you. You don't understand the concept of abstraction. You don't understand how analogies work. You don't have even the most rudimentary grasp of logic. I know that what I'm saying makes no sense to you, but that's not because it doesn't make sense, it's because you aren't capable of understanding it! You are the Dunning-Kruger Effect personified. Please, just let it go; you are humiliating yourself here. I'm not going to drop by this thread again, so rant all you like - and I'm sure you will, at tedious length - I won't read it. Really, this is like trying to explain Quantum Mechanics to an eight year old. I'm done.

>>33553575
>So, if a cancer patient is going to be dead in six weeks, but wants to hold on and enjoy the time he has left, is it okay for you to shoot him in the face?
No, because the presumption that ending a life is wrong wasn't rebutted. There is only the default wrong of killing in that situation; there's no other potential wrong to balance it against like there is in an ectopic pregnancy.
But if this same cancer patient kept eating food in a famine, and insisted on doing so (i.e. contributing to the starvation of others who could survive far longer)? Yeah, killing him might actually be justified then, and it's specifically because of the terminal condition.

Murder specifically means *unlawful* killing, also. So while you can accurately call it murder if you see the act as immoral, it's also not incoherent for someone who sees a legal and moral justification for ending life to reject the label.

My point is that many people (I don't consider myself pro-life or pro-choice, but I generally side against abortion) don't think "killing people is wrong" is the highest and inalienable absolute. If they did, then you're right, it's incoherent to say that while also saying that abortion is justified for any reason other than saving a life in the face of both certainly dying otherwise.

>>33553711
He's right to reject the comparison, though. Cheek cells are a part of a human. Not a complete, independent organism like a developing embryo.
Calling him stupid doesn't make the abstraction any better, and it's frankly a weakness on your part if you think the only way you can make an argument is by running away from the labels he uses. I.e. you refuse to make a moral argument, and instead pretend that the labels we all apparently understand mean something else to avoid recognizing his premise.
And doing this gives him ammunition, because in your haste to shut down criticism of abortion, you're tacitly accepting that humanity is the ultimate judge of whether you'd consider abortion moral (otherwise you wouldn't be so eager to argue over what makes a human)--and thus reinforcing the strength of his argument to anyone who hasn't already assumed the conclusion of abortion being good.

tl;dr try putting forth an alternate justification for abortion instead of making half-baked semantic arguments to contradict anon's criticism of it

>>33553950
The problem is he tries to make something that’s real into an abstraction, he tries to treat what is a biological matter into something lukewarm and pseudo-philosophical and doing it weakly

>>33552835
Don’t. If you’re not going to take care of your own kid, then don’t have him/her.

>>33552990
What a clown. You obviously aren’t interested in him but the idiot feels inclined to waste time and resources on you.

>>33547541 (OP)
abortion

>>33552362
>having healthy children around is infinitely better than not having them, even if they are someone elses
That's quite a cucked mentality

>>33553943
>Murder specifically means *unlawful* killing
Well, good thing it's legal to allow abortion in most countries
Up to 12 weeks for abortion on request, up to 24 weeks for rape, incest, or socioeconomic reasons, and more for fetal impairment or risk to the woman's health or life

>>33547541 (OP)
I mean, if you want to cuck your potential future husband into raising someone else's child, it's your choice.

>>33552684
NTA, it looks like a small animal at that stage of development. But while killing a rat might make most people feel a little squeamish, it's still not a big moral issue. I think an adult rat might actually have much more consciousness than that fetus.

>>33559986
>consciousness
>muuh consciousness
Do toddlers have consciousness? Do newborns? Can you remember something from when you were a newborn though? Can I go on a killing spree on a hospital, turning off all machines in which I find a comatose patient? You are dumb AF.

>>33560087
>Do toddlers have consciousness? Do newborns?
https://youtu.be/Cw9KaZkLbQA

>>33560153
Most people aren't ready for such viscerality
>>33559602
Let's trust the experts' choice and stick to 12-24 weeks limit for now
>>33560087
>comatose patient
The braindead ones with no stored consciousness/sapience/soul are fine for organ harvesting and saving the living people

>>33560218
Btw, in some Asian countries people still cook and eat fetuses, no biggie

>>33547541 (OP)
LARP

>>33547541 (OP)
Abortion is murder, and you shouldn't do that
Do what this anon said
>>33547564

>>33548158
It's not a child you dumb fuck nutjob. How many times does people have to repeat this?

>>33547541 (OP)
1.Abort if the child is in a very early stage as a formless blob
2. Don't abort if he visually started forming into a human being

2's abortion is murder, 1 is not

>>33562717
>formless blob
Btw, sometimes normal fetuses develop parasitic twins nearby

>>33562701
>It's not a child you dumb fuck nutjob. How many times does people have to repeat this?
It is a child, you can try coping, but doesn't change reality.

>>33547541 (OP)
Apologize to your BF about the fight, clearly you were high on pregnancy hormones, you're not going to make any sense or have good judgment for the next nine+ months so get used to it.
He's probably not that bad of a guy, if you liked him when you were not high on preggo hormones.
Actions have consequences, FAFO, which you did literally, so now you're a mom, go have fun being a mom, life will change but thats OK.

>>33562717
But then they can’t use her babies blood and body parts to make supplements and whatever else.

>>33547541 (OP)
You need to give more detail OP on why you too broke up
>Should I tell my ex or just leave him out of this?
He has a right to know, and the children have a right to their father. (UNLESS:- you broke up becoming he's a rapist/child molester/physical assaulted without provocation).
with all of that being said, use your better judgement as long as you don't kill the poor kid, none of us know your situation or your bf

>>33547938
>It is not a child yet.
This is disgusting desu, just tell her to be selfish instead of pretending that it's right to abort a literal baby,
>*may*
May my ass, what else is it gonna become? A frog?

>>33548045
>If you don't want to be pregnant, end the pregnancy. It's that simple.
If you don't want children, end them. It's that simple.

>>33563268
He's controlling. He has this whole "I'm the man of the house" attitude like his word should be law. He acts like he knows better than me about everything and he tries to tell me which friends I shouldn't hang out with and where I should or shouldn't hang out with them at. He doesn't respect me as a person, he treats me like a responsibility attached to something he likes (sex). I broke things off with him to be with someone else who actually likes me and my friends, but now I'm pregnant and this asshole has a permanent stake in my life.

>>33547541 (OP)
Why don't you just grow a spine and do what you want to do?

>>33563737
Why are you letting this guy reproduce if he's such an asshole? Also if you have a kid with another man your new boyfriend is probably going to dip sooner or later.

>i made a stupid choice
>now three broken lives are going to revolve around this shitty choice forever
>what do

murder the tardspawn out of your womb, leave your parents' house so you and them will be spared the pain of reminding each other what failures you've laid at one another's feet, then sew your cunt shut so you're not tempted to make such poor choices in the future because you clearly can't be trusted to make your own decisions with it

The choice of abortion exists for a reason.

>>33563737
Then why on Earth would you want to have *his* baby?

>>33548248
>>33548496
Not even remotely the same, you disingenuous faggot.

>>33552128
No sorry, it's me I'm the guy comparing unborn infants to cancer cells and the inside of my cheeks. I'm deeply unhappy so I'm samefagging counterarguments because it's the closest thing I'll ever experience to affection. Thank you for participating in my creative writing exercise.

>>33563737
Then why did you have sex with him? Also, you were clearly cheating if you immediately had someone in the wings. You're not innocent in this.

Just have the abortion. You will just fuck up your life, your ex's life, and your baby's life because of your mother is projecting guilt onto you. You deserve punishment for not being careful about getting pregnant, but the punishment shouldn't be a living human. Do them a favor.

>>33563793
I just don't feel right about doing an abortion. I don't want to have his baby.
>>33565125
I wasn't cheating, but there's a guy who has been supportive of me and interested in me who treated me a lot better than him. I was planning to give it two weeks and talk to him after the break up before I found out about the baby.

>>33547541 (OP)
Real advice is to tell your bf and say that you're aborting the baby. Do not listen to anyone else's advice about keeping the baby. Children are the worst financial investment you can ever make in your life, and if you're not financially stable you will be poor for the rest of your life. Do you want to be uneducated, poor, and possible have an absent father down the line? Abort.

>>33562791
you're the one actually coping desu. your mom probably wanted to abort you but eventually decided to keep you so now you're happy you're alive to live your miserable meaningless life

>>33566462
this and /thread

>>33566437
then how do you think of getting rid of it ? you'll wait for the stork to pick him up ? get your shit together and accept the consequences of being careless

I love when people make bad decisions on purpose just because their family told them to. News flash, they aren't gonna be the ones dealing with a retarded teenager in 15 years.

>>33563737
>I broke things off with him to be with someone else who actually likes me and my friends, but now I'm pregnant
Holy cuckshit, please be bait

>>33566462
>Children are the worst financial investment you can ever make in your life,
That means that (you) were the worst financial investment your parents ever made in their life.

>>33566437
>I wasn't cheating, but there's a guy who has been supportive of me and interested in me who treated me a lot better than him.
Be careful with that OP. Plenty of guys who hate other guys love to prey on other guys' relationships to fuck their girl. They wait until the girl has a big argument with their bf, then they rush to their support and do the whole 'nice guy' routine to hook you in and get you to monkeybranch or cheat. Then once they fuck you they bounce and if they stay eventually their mask slips and you find out they are way way worse than whatever you thought your boyfriend was. I predict this 'nice guy' you are talking to will dip when he finds out you keep the baby.

Meaning the only guy who actually wants to care for you and actually is putting in efforts for you and the baby is your boyfriend. You already said he is too he's currently working with family to make a future for you

>>33567355
What a hypocrite. You are the boyfriend larping at some random person to convince and manipulate her to stay. Really disgusting behavior.

Op get as far away from this person as you can.

>>33567355
How long have you been doing this exact thing to trap and manipulate her? To put her in the position she is in now that she is desperate to escape?

>>33567370
>>33567374
? I've nothing to gain from lying or larping or pretending anything. I'm talking to OP as though she were an individual capable of her own choices and I am telling her what the things to look out for are. If she doesn't wanna listen or wants to ignore the cautions she absolutely can that's how to her, I ain't her father or her pimp or her God. She's already free to do whatever she wants. Though for some reason you guys think she is this helpless little victim who is easily manipulated.
>How long have you been doing this exact thing to trap and manipulate her
0hrs 0mins 0sec, trap her where? Manipulate her how? I'm just an anon to her. All I'm pointing out is watch out for 'mr nice guy' they're famously like wolves in sheep's clothing this is common knowledge in the dating circuit

>>33565108
>Not even remotely the same
NTA, but you understand that you're agreeing with him, right? If those things aren't remotely the same, that means he's right and you're wrong.

>>33567398
>All birds can fly therefore they are birds
>Wasps can fly too therefore they are also birds
>What you say it's not the same thing?
>Well it means I am right and you are wrong because if those things aren't remotely the same it means you agree with me

>>33567391
Being in the same room with you it's a prison and you run around the walls patching up any exits and yelling loud noises to keep me stuck in the middle of the room.

But I see something you don't. A way out of this hell and everything to do with you.

There's something you missed, my escape from your desperation and this pit you've dragged me into, a small crack, a beam of light shines through, The warmth I feel whenever the light catches my eye, A way home.

You need to clean cut. Abort and cut this part of your life out. Block the ex you are with on everything. Have an exit plan to move in with the other guy or back home you should start communicating this now so we are ready to move when the time comes. With the situation as it is don't let the current guy do any further damage. Like the best even just to leave now and Go to your folks place and block the guy

>>33567391
You're the wolf in sheeps clothing. You look for any and all means of help for her and then try to scare her away from them. If you can make her think the nice guy is just as bad as you then maybe you can trap her more

>>33567451
>There's something you missed, my escape from your desperation and this pit you've dragged me into, a small crack, a beam of light shines through, The warmth I feel whenever the light catches my eye, A way home.

What? Get some help anon this sounds like schizophrenia if you're perceiving all that stuff you made up from anons

>>33567461
>If you can make her think the nice guy is just as bad as you then maybe you can trap her more
Trap her where? She doesn't even need to go back to boyfriend if she has the kid, she even has the means to keep him out of her and kids life if she wanted. And by the way if you wanna talk about manipulation and controlling behavior, consider the fact several times OP said she wants to keep the baby/would feel wrong aborting it/even her own boyfriend tried to tell her what to do 'abort it'. Yet here you are trying to make her go against her own feelings and trying to talk her out of her own conscience.
If you wanna know who the manipulator is take a look in a fuckin mirror

>>33567402
Er, no. It actually went something like this:

You: "A fertilized egg has property X, which means it is a human being, because everything with property X is a human being."

Him: "But here are some things that also have property X and which are clearly not human beings. Therefore your claim that everything with property X is a human being can't be right."

You: "But those things clearly aren't human beings! Checkmate!"

Honestly, you're agreeing with him.

>>33567529
>You: "But those things clearly aren't human beings! Checkmate!"
And that's where you fucked up because no one said the cancer patient isn't a human being.

>>33567499
Manipulator, liar. I won't be trapped here by you. I'm done living in your lie. I can't be physically near you. Get away

>>33567539
>Manipulator, liar. I won't be trapped here by you. I'm done living in your lie. I can't be physically near you. Get away
Deep breaths anon, notice this is just text on a screen. Deep breaths anon notice no one is around you in real life, now go get some psychiatric help

>>33567531
Looking back up the thread, that seems to have been an entirely separate argument. That one went:

Him: "Your position is inconsistent, because you argue that an embryo is a human being and killing it is murder, but you also say that it's okay to kill an embryo sometimes. Those two positions conflict."

You: "It's okay to kill a human if they're definitely going to die in six weeks anyway."

Him: "Here is a situation which a human is definitely going to die in six weeks anyway, but it is clearly not okay to kill him. So what you just said is clearly not correct."

You: "But in that situation the guy is human! Checkmate!"

That's not actually a counter-argument.

>>33547541 (OP)
If you broke it off and got pregnant by this guy then abort ffs. Do you want to have him in your life for the next 20 years? do you want to explain every future partner who that guy is and why and how it came to this? Do you want to be this woman?

>>33567582
>Looking back up the thread I will strawman and deliberately misinterpret people's words to construe a narrative of how I think it went down and how I think both people think as well

Since this thread has gone to shit, I have to save it. What is your race? What is the mans race? The rest I leave in the hands of pol.

>>33567326
You have to be financially stable, which my parents were. I definitely was an investment that drained them for sure. OP is probably not even 25 with no prospects, no career, and with a deadbeat to be dad

>>33569979
>You have to be financially stable
Not really no because if that were true I'd not have had to talk one of my rich ass friends out of suicide because despite coming from money his mom was psychotic and his dad was a weak cuck who kissed his mom's ass and allowed abuse to continue and it fucked his childhood which consequently fucked his adulthood fast forward to having to be talked out of blowing his brains out. What fucked him was a lack of love not a lack of money, so long as the kid feels cared for in a mental and emotional manner the kid will grown up just fine and that costs $0.00

>>33570114
Money does not guarantee happiness, but a lack of it guarantees misery.

>>33570459
And a lack of love guarantees suicide

>>33570478
>And a lack of love guarantees suicide
No.