Thread 33607949

Pretty sure my wife (37) controls all access to sex and affection. Made me realize this is the dynamic in the relationship. She either gives me affection, rejects me outright if I try to touch her or interact, or lets me touch her/be affectionate. I have to just guess when this is available as even if it's clear she will reject without an obvious readable sign. She will also straight up ignore me when I talk unless she decides she wants to listen. I don't know when this is as she can be busy with anything at any time. There are times of the day she is basically unavailable unless of course she needs something from me or wants to talk then she will reach out to me. I'm the opposite where I'm always giving out love and affection, listening and trying to help with problems, and enjoys spontaneous intimacy.

Same thing with sex. I can't really control when we have sex it's on her terms. If I want sex it's I wait until she decides she wants it most likely at night and with drinks. I can't woo her or anything like that to make sex happen on my terms. It's a touch only if touched and speak only when spoken to dynamic. I have a new strat I'm trying of just leaving the house for a few hours when this happens. Time to get out? It just seems like she doesn't like me at all most of the time but wants to stay in a relationship? I imagine this mostly benefits her (roommate with benefits dynamic?) and she wants kids now too so I'm sure I'm the only option now.

>>33607949 (OP)
Do not have kids with that woman anon. Start looking for someone else.

> Time to get out?
No just flip the script. Reject her a few times
She can't have kids unless she initiates

>>33608019
I rejected her last sat after a night out because she barely talked or interacted. After she was laying in the bed starfish style waiting for me to initiate and I told her I was tired and didn't want to have sex. She seemed pretty mad and not happy the next day. If I have sex with her I feel like she gets what she wants by getting sex when she wanted it while doing nothing validating for me up to that point. Half the time I don't even feel that aroused with her and it feels mechanical and pointless. My libido is through the roof so I can have meaningless sex with her and the next morning I'm even more aroused for the shit I'm not getting in my marriage. This then causes a more intense wandering eye feeling that just stacks endlessly.

My mind is utterly incapable of imagining relationships like this. When I want to have sex, I just start to caress and kiss my girlfriend, until she fully opens herself up to me. She resists sometimes, but I just keep doing it, until she relents. She has never complained about this.

>>33608136
Stop doing all that. Just jerk off bro
If you can't abstain and deal with a hoes mad situation until the inevitable conflict then you should just leave now

>>33607949 (OP)
in before OP realizes he is the wife and she's the husband
some "men" like that I guess. my father in-law is married to such a woman and seems to like it.

>>33608149
The funny part is all of this was fine when I was jerking off 4x a day for years. I didn't really need the intimacy I guess but that eventually imploded on itself when you eventually want the real thing via strippers I can never go back to that life. It was great for cope though and focusing on my hobbies.

>>33608166
I honestly never noticed it until quitting porn a few years ago. I'm at my best when I lead as it's the most natural. Either I coom and let her lead or I have this constant internal conflict when I let her have all the power. It's easier to just let her do it as she is competitive but it doesn't feel good or look good at all. I can't be my best self and have self respect while also not leading.

>>33607949 (OP)
(bump for someone that might know what the hell to tell you)

As a failed normie/born-again-incel I am always totally baffled by these stories from married men putting in the time for a decent life, taking care of themselves, with wives that just stonewall them constantly. I don't know what normal married sexlife is supposed to be and there probably as a point that sexual obsession becomes a corrupting thing - but for what few relationships I had (women that approached me during peak youth I was too autistic to leverage for a decent life) we were always physical. Restrained contact in public, snuck sexual touching with moments of almost privacy, and sex when we could.

If I managed to right my life, go through all the hoops to land a wife, and then get snubbed at every gesture of affection
>Eww, no thanks. Go do something to impress me lately
and sleep next to the equivalent of a heated body pillow (but that's not even it because the heated body pillow won't push you away) I'd grow the desire to divorce and set fire to anything and everything that I built that she'd try to take.

Maybe memories of fleeting but failed relationships are better than whatever that is.

>>33612231
Probably explains why I find 99% of women attractive now. Anything is better than this feeling. It's almost exactly a year ago I had asked her for a divorce and I don't feel like we have made that much progress outside of getting more sex on her terms. I question myself a lot "why am I here" and I feel like that is the point of no return. One foot out the door but it feels like a defense mechanism now at this point. Last time there was any real affection was Sunday. Yesterday she talked about work pretty much all day and basically ignored me until we went to bed.

I'm quitting weed for awhile too so this will probably cause implosion of trying to fix things. Pretty sure I was coping with weed as it's like an invisible friend and also removes desire to socialize.

>>33608144
This is how a functioning relationship works.
>>33608136
Your wife is no longer relationship-compatible with you. Same way you wouldn't be with her, if you stopped giving her your time and attention, taking her out to dates, and providing sufficiently for her.
This can be ok as a temporary problem of hers, but you don't want to end up in a dead bedroom situation, nor in a situation where she doesn't have respect for you (which already seems to be the case).

>>33608200
maybe she tried to see if she can get away with emasculating you, and it appears you're allowing her to, hence she loses all respect and attraction for you and is probably looking for backups, as well as gradually escalating to see how much she can get away with.
Women, children and animals (and men) will instinctively try to see how much they can get away with, and not showing them reasonable boundaries is the worst thing you can do for yourself (and for them)

>>33614030
>>33614047
^these
>>33613188
I don't know your situation or how long you've been married. But this situation is liable to get far worse if and when you have children. If you don't have a relationship basis where you feel loved I don't see the point of locking in unless you just really feel you'd make great children together and you can tolerate a frigid room mate.

>she can be busy with anything at any time
What does this mean? If it's idle scrolling on her phone - that's pretty fucking bad. If she has some high responsibility highly technical job (unlikely, but possible) where there are real stakes requiring her input at odd hours... then hmm.
It sounds like an absence of respect where I would suspect cheating.

Did you seek counselling or therapy when you considered divorce a year ago? Not that it would necessarily help but its an effort above just having a few talks, making a few half gestures, then sinking back to a nonchalant routine.

The whole bit of your wife being unavailable / flat out ignoring you seems like a red flag and a far cry of a man having responsibilities that occupy his time and a wife seeking attention from him. If I had wife or even girlfriend that just pretended I didn't speak while she stared at her phone I'd be enraged.

I don't know your stats or whether there are things you can do that can be improved that might push your relationship to a healthier dynamic (improve fitness, improve your self presentation, make the "your areas of the home" immaculate) which can help some marital ruts but it sounds like maybe you're so far outside the bounds of a healthy romantic bond that there is no recovering it.

Divorce will become monumentally more difficult if you have children.
I'm in no position to push someone to break a marriage but if you consider a life more alone, with some shallow troubling flings, and possibly sex tourism in the future more appealing than what you have now: well, there's your answer.

>>33616697
pretty much this
good gf > alone > bad gf
(after you've had a relationship and aren't too fucked up)

Your wife refuses to make changes to herself to adapt the relationship to suit your needs?
Yes, your relationship is no longer built on any form of trust or respect. You must cut your losses and move on.

>>33616697
I definitely think it's a respect thing and I also work from home full time which I'm sure doesn't help. We got into an argument last night after I mentioned I wasn't in a rush to have kids until we fix some issues. She didn't validate that issue at all and it continued with me talking about being ignored. Most if not all my complaints and concerns were valid. She started to go off topic and bring up random things that she doesn't like or that I didn't do randomly that week. Nothing is ever good enough moving the goalposts vibes. I switched it up this time though and told her I am leaving for few hours and hung out at the local bar. Was kind of nice to reset and take away the power once she started deflecting.

The ignoring and the overall vibe given off just seems like apathy and general lack of interest in me. Like if she came to sit near me on the couch I would be excited and give/receive affection. It's not the same vibe the other way around, almost annoyed.

No counseling since divorce but that might be an option now. I feel like I've been improving since before the divorce by just living my own life and putting myself out there. Solo events, bars alone, doing things for myself. She has slowly moved away from the center of my world and I think it's how I should treat women going forward. Either it will fix this marriage or at least set me up nice going forward.

The whole being alone thing is also on my mind as I'm closer to 40 than 30. I can definitely do it now and probably most of my 40s/early 50s but I've seen with my own eyes that it gets pretty rough for men that are alone later in life. I'm almost at the age where women in their 20s are unavailable to me and the 30s seems to have a lot of jaded baggage or rush for marriage/kids. The 40s they just seem to have even more baggage/standards. There is some logic involved with continuing this marriage with happiness further down the list of my priorities. What would someone 200 years ago do?

>>33618912
It's kind of hard to understand exactly what's what because you don't provide any specifics regarding the issues, only your vague summary interpretations. The gist is strong that its not working but without a case report of exactly what happened and what was said there's not going to be any highly accurate advice.
>Most if not all my complaints and concerns were valid.
What complaints did you state. What did she say? Did she say they were valid? Did you just conclude they were valid? Details matter.
>She started to go off topic and bring up random things that she doesn't like or that I didn't do randomly that week
Examples: as specific as possible as they were said.

>if she came to sit near me on the couch I would be excited and give/receive affection. It's not the same vibe the other way around, almost annoyed.
Do you two not even sit next to each other on the couch during a movie? These examples are also vague but it sounds like your wife doesn't even like being next to you most of the time. If that's the case, that's absolutely brutal. I've never heard of anyone reversing course toward healthy affection if that's the point of the relationship. Why does she even want to have kids with you if she doesn't want to touch you?

I think the fact that you brought up divorce in the past and nothing happened and the relationship didn't change means she has subconsciously decided you are weak and will defy you forever. Best case scenario you move out, make self improvements that outwardly signal more assertiveness and her attitude changes. From there it would be a constant psychological persuasion game to train your wife to be a wife and not a room mate.

In bringing up therapy I don't think its that useful. It's hyper feminized and is not geared to encourage men and women to fulfil the necessary archetypes to be in a happy marriage. But if your wife had suggested it as an olive branch at any point it would be meaningful. (cont...)

>>33607949 (OP)
This is the case in like 90%+ of heterosexual relationships. Sucks, but you just have to accept the fact that most women are psychopathic narcissists with main character syndrome

>>33618912
(...cont) And, at least, when you exchange grievances with a mediator present women often are on better behavior and do not pull out the kind of childish obstinate games they will use in private.

>Solo events, bars alone, doing things for myself.
Every long-term married couple I have ever known that did not divorce eagerly goes to social events together. They have some non-overlapping personal (same sex) relationships from their past or cousins that they might meet solo but the majority of their social life is eagerly pursued as a couple. Does your wife not desire going out together?

Circling back to the lack of affection over all avenues of close contact: this is far from normal. A woman that neither pursues physical contact nor welcomes contact (some won't initiate but make a point to 'look cute' next to you until they receive attention) just is not in to you.

Consider: have you ever seen a dog or cat owning woman lavish affection on their pet on a daily basis. It's pretty simple, but meaningful. Do get at least a hug, smile, and a kind word on a daily basis? If not - you're lower on the hierarchy of deserving affection than your standard pet in the eyes of the pet owner.

Do you know what happens to solitary cat owners when they die alone and aren't discovered for weeks? Their cats eat their fingers and faces. Your average dog can't apply foresight to their owner's concerns to not shit on the carpet from time to time. Have you oriented your life and routines around your wife's tastes to a higher and more thoughtful degree than a dog? Why do you accept receiving less affection than a dog?

>>33618912
(...cont)
I can understand there may be a mismatch of day-to-day interest in sex. But couples make exceptions and, again, functional arch types direct a woman to be attentive. A man's pleasure button's are pretty simple. Be a woman, be present, give interest and attention, work the penis from time to time. When you were alone and jerking off was that a difficult thing to do? Maybe you'd like to fuck a few times a week, or daily. I can understand that might seem excessive, to her, at this point.

But, tell me, would you be happy with getting met in the middle with your wife ritually jerking you off each morning and smiling at you? Throw in a date night on the weekend. Would this be at all difficult? Is jerking you off a difficult thing to do? Does the level of potential discomfort rise to the level that dog and cat owners go through taking care of and cleaning up after their pets every single day for the animals entire lives.

Why do you, her husband, deserve a lower level of attentiveness than a pet receives?
>it gets pretty rough for men that are alone later in life
This is true. It very well might be what you have versus less. Maybe there are some missing details that would change the picture. But it does not seem there's any way for you to claim your assertiveness and dignity without broadcasting loud and clear to your wife,
"I will take nothing over what you give me. I will not continue doing the chores to maintain this life with this level of love. I would rather starve than be expected to smile at the contemptuous "gift" of a few breadcrumbs."

>>33618912
(...cont)
The only final caveat is... maybe coping and having a child isn't the worst possible outcome. It will not improve your marriage. But if your wife is a genetic specimen, you both have family support networks to lean on, and you very much want to be a father... maybe. This is a maybe coming with a strong likelihood of your wife divorcing you a little later, contesting you on custody, and putting you in a lesser financial position than if you had walked away now.

In truth, though, if you are truly committed and prepaired for it: being a father and coping could be a more meaningful life than a strained marriage and coping. But, that would come with greater pains and strains than you are currently experiencing. Becoming a parent is a much better option in a loving marriage but there could be a version where it would be worth sacrificing your desires for personal romantic affection.

If greater sacrifice for a difficult possibility of a different sort of joy does not appeal to you just walk away now.