Thread 33898984

Debating going back to school for nursing. I'm a compsci grad, employed with the feds, decnt savings, and one of the schools I'm looking at offers a "pre-health" program that can transfer into an RN because I don't have all the pre-reqs. The program is three years four months (not counting the eight months of pre-health). I feel like it would be a better use of my time compared with basically everything I'm doing right now.

Dear god why
Nursing is so stressful most nurses develop extremely toxic personalities

>>33898990
Because I feel like actually trying to help people would be a better use of my time than programming some fucking fillable form internal website.

>>33899017
I'm gonna give you a hint
People don't want your help
They don't care if you've made it and are now trying to help
As a nurse people only temporarily need you so they don't die or lose a leg

Become a nurse if you want, but it will be thankless

>>33899030
Stopping people from dying or losing a leg sounds like a pretty good use of my time, even if it is thankless.

>>33899039
Then do it bro

>>33899087
Thanks anon. I may just do that. (Also Toga best girl).

>>33898984 (OP)
Do you have any specific questions? I was an EMT when I was young, moved into IT for a number of years, then switched back into healthcare as an RN. What would you like to know?

>>33898990
This guy is correct about the stress. Staffing in many areas has never recovered post-COVID. Burnout is a real concern.

>>33899030
A little more nuanced but mostly correct. Nurses find a lot of fulfillment in areas like LDRP and pediatrics. General floor nursing can be a shit show. Psych units often have primarily addicts and ex-convicts and the few people that actually are helped never show up again.

That said there are a lot of positives. Scheduling can be awesome (e.g., 3 day workweek full-time). Nurses can change specialties rather easily. There are huge advancement opportunities. Lots of nurses go into administration, education, or advanced practice after getting a bit of experience. As an example, my hospital paid for my MSN in full and is covering most of NP school which I'm doing while I work. Money is good and it is a career field that is resistant to technological capture.

>>33899593
I guess my top questions would be:
1) When you switched from IT to nursing, how did they evaluate you wrt the educational requirements? I graduated with a CS degree, but my grades weren't the best, hence me looking into the pre-health program both to gain the prereqs and to bump up my average a bit. I imagine they looked primarily at your EMT courses? I'm loated in Ontario Canada if that helps.
2) Why did you switch from IT to nursing? Just wanted to get back into healthcare, or was it more a question of the job market?
3) If admissions end up being a problem for me given my comp-sci background, even if I do very well in the pre-health program, would you recommend me going for an LPN (or RPN as we call them in Ontario) and then bridging into RN afetr work experience?

>>33899593
And thanks for being willing to answer questions!

>>33900189
My answers to you will probably be rather general since I don't have a clear picture of the educational system in Canada.

>1
After graduating high school, I was one of those "pre-meds" who lacked the maturity to handle college the first time around, but I did take many of the pre-requisite courses for nursing which still counted later (e.g., biology, chemistry, psychology). In general, most of the coursework that you've taken would likely be counted as general education credits unless you have health science classes. EMT only went so far as being a good medical background having field experience and a modicum of training.

Almost across the board in the US anatomy, physiology, microbiology, chemistry, and introductory/developmental psychology are required before entering into actual nursing coursework.

>2
I had always been drawn to healthcare. It is something that I was passionate for, but also failed spectacularly as a student when I was younger. I got my A+, opened a small tech repair and service business and wizened up over a number of years. At some point, the nagging thought of making a positive difference finally caused me to go back to college. It wasn't a necessity, but it felt right. Nursing was the most reasonable option as I finished the pre-reqs for RN programs while finishing a "general" AA then BA which I had never completed after dropping out my first time around.

>3
Nursing school can be competitive, but if you nail your pre-nursing coursework you should be competitive. My GPA before dropping out of college the first time was like 2.8. When I went back a decade+ I aced the classes that I took which mattered a lot. That said, with nursing shortages in the US now, hospitals are paying entire tuitions for work agreements. I don't know how that is reflected in Canada though.

LPN is an option. It really gives a strong basis on pharmacology and medications as that is often their role, however, the pay difference is big.

>>33900290
Very good things to know, thanks!

>>33900311
If you have any other questions, let me know.

Overall, I think nursing has been a good experience. That said, I am glad that I'm transitioning into an advanced provider role because nursing on a unit does wear at you.

Something that you may be interested in after you get some experience would be nursing informatics. I am on my hospital's committee due to my IT background, but many locations have full-time nurses who cover the technological systems and compliance used in the hospital. This might involve IV pump use, electronic medical records, and medication operations. A meeting might go over updates to the charting system based on nurse feedback or finding optimizations in charting systems based on need or new advances.

This is one of the most "desk job" nursing roles which seems pretty comfy longer term.

>>33898984 (OP)
Nursing is a blue collar job. You deal with moving 70+kg people, cleaning their shit, keeping track of checklists. You will get night shifts which will kill your neurons, you will see people dying, people crying, people yelling in pain.

Just why in the world would you want that?

>>33900351
Because bettering peoples' lives, even if it's a fucking mess, is a worthy pursuit and better by far than the life I'm living now.

>>33900395
You don't better people's lives. You witness their death. This is what a nurse does, this is what a GP doctor does. The only one who arguably does better their lives is the emergency medic or surgeon. Because of their procedural nature these absolutely directly act on people's lives.

A GP, Internal medicine, etc, offers the patient information to better his life and it's up to the patient to take it, most of the time they don't or advice is not even possible, so all the doctor does is watch the slow motion trainwreck. This applies for pediatrics too, since pediatrics has mostly to do with malformed children or premature care neurological sequels.

A nurse is a janitor. You clean shit. You move bodies that can't move. You inject drugs and plug lines, you move a patient from one ward to the other, you keep track of the drugs he's taken, you whine to the doctor if something is going on, you keep inventory of drugs and supplies. You are a tool to run machinery. You could argue to be bettering people's lives in a clerical job in a government office all the same without lifting 100kg bodies, hearing the pain, smelling the shit etc.

Get fucking real. Jobs are about working them. Goals are another fucking thing, but if you really want to clean shit and lift weighs for a living go ahead.

>>33900445
Well I'm aiming for the emergency room.

>>33900725
Well I don't know of a single workplace where nurses don't rotate, specially for shifts. All the same, emergency room is about handling people's complaints about the crowded system, walking people to the respective wards, managing inventories and plugging lines. Doctor makes all the decisions, and algorithm makes all the decisions for the doctor by the way. If you want to really really be one, go ask to shadow a nurse any friday night and see what it's like. Or work in a kitched, that's the most emergency like situation you find in daily life.

>>33900851
I think shadowing a nurse would be a good call actually. I might see if I can do that. Thanks anon.

>>33898984 (OP)
Follow your dreams anon

>>33898984 (OP)
WIPE POO GET DISEASES

>>33898984 (OP)
What advice do you need?
If this is just an ad to get more people into the nursing industry, it sucks btw

>>33898984 (OP)
A lot of good stuff here for you anon. I will contribute my experiences. Firstly, what are you doing it for? Because you want to feel like you are helping people? The reality is that most people you will take care of don't want to be helped, and they want to use you despite hating you. You will be used and abused by patients and your own leadership. You will see directly where your social security dollars are going to and it will drive you up a wall.

Nursing is basically a trade that has clawed itself up to academia. When you begin, you will most likely have to work as a floor nurse till you get enough experience for managers to not scoff at your resume for the better positions.

With your education, you could also make a lot more money on average. Unless you live in the west coast, nurses who make 100K plus either have years of experience, or they work an incredible amount of overtime.

I work in psychiatry, so I could talk to you about that as well.

>>33898984 (OP)
Nah, go traditional program to RN.

I got my CNA recently, not sure what I'm doing though. I work at a hospital as a janitor and told myself I would climb the ladder at my job for once. I just wanted to try something new, and do some as needed work and make some extra money, see what it's like, because it LOOKS like the nurses don't do anything but sit on their phones half the time. I take the exam soon and haven't actually worked in the field yet but I'll give my two cents. I ask for more insight. I'm sure it isn't as easy as it looks, and I'm not sure I can actually deal with a full time desk job. But I don't know...

Some of the anons seem right. My clinicals were in long term care facilities and the shit is depressing. I know I can't deal with that as a career. Wiping ass of and having to feed and ambulate basically corpses that can barely respond kills your spirit. I don't see how people do it.

My goal is to just work ED and get a taste of it, see if I can adjust, but I already worry about gender discrimination. A stressed out CNA at my training facility blew up on me for absolutely no reason because I said "excuse me" to try and get information on a resident. She had already cussed out a cook, and is probably out of a job soon, but she specifically identified me as a man and continued to project her shit onto me just for existing in her workspace as a man. How common is this shit? Because I really don't know how well I can work in a female dominated field. I can't stand the cattyness and the sloth. I have to have something to do at work.

The more I say this shit out loud the more it really seems I shouldn't advance further in healthcare. But like I said, it's a planned side gig at the moment

>>33905213
>blew up on me for absolutely no reason because I said "excuse me" t
You interrupted their thoughts, which could have resulted in an error on their part. They are likely overworked and a ADHD type, or maybe even sleep deprived Wait for them to acknowledge you first next time? Be sure to say "may I ask you a question, please?" because people usually recognize polite people.
You aren't born with these skills naturally, they are learned by example from good mentors who model clever approaches to deal with people. Maybe it's family that teaches you, or just a great mentor. When you pick a job, you should state in your interview questions that you are looking for a good fit, and good mentors to model behaviors for you, and let them know you want to stay a long time.

>>33905249
I'm putting the cuck "may I please shit" advice aside. The woman straight up ignored me in passing, when I was alone as a student in a place I didn't know, with residents I met ten minutes ago at the time. The way I said it was not the issue. I later learned that that particular cna does not take students and is bitter about not being promoted as a mentor. She had her own bullshit going on and unfairly took it out on me. I'm asking if this is common, because I know how women act when they get together, too. I've walked past several gossipy conversations.

So many of them on the hospital floors are rude as fuck and act like they're above me at work when the assistants don't even make as much as we do. I'm asking how they treat you once you're one of them. The ED seems to stay busy enough to prevent that kind of atmosphere, which is why it's my target.

>>33905213
> it LOOKS like the nurses don't do anything but sit on their phones half the time.
With the shit you have to do as an RN, especially when you work inpatient, any moment of respite greatly helps you get through it. However, there are a lot of nurses who straight up video call people on the shift, and that has always annoyed me.
>Wiping ass of and having to feed and ambulate basically corpses that can barely respond kills your spirit. I don't see how people do it.
Worked geripsych for 2 years, it kills your soul. Families cannot let go of meemaw and refuse the DNR, even though granny can't even take two steps without falling.
>A stressed out CNA at my training facility blew up on me
She is just a bitch anon, all it is. Since healthcare in general is very social, you will have to learn to play the game. It doesn't mean gossiping behind people's back, but you do need to learn the art of speaking a lot without saying anything of substance. It's just how it is, especially in female-dominated fields, because they will use whatever you say against you.
>My goal is to just work ED and get a taste of it,
ED is really chill most of the time. You can never truly avoid the gossiping, but ED will have some of the best people in healthcare personality wise, and you might even get close to some people. Just make sure you are competent at your job.

how much money are you making currently OP?

>>33904923
I've heard similar things from people I've asked about this, but they also mention the occasional thankful patient that restores some faith in the profession. Not denying what you're saying at all though. I will also mention that the work itself appeals to me in the sense it's more concrete. It's not a whole bunch of stakeholders dicking around with CSS requirements, it's doing things with tangible outcomes. It's the same reason I've also been looking into some trades work as another possible option, namely elevator technician.

And as for making more: I make about 80K CAD at the moment. That's comparable to what a nurse makes around my area, and there's a significant need for them so hiring will likely be alright. Not to mention constant cuts in tech at the moment. The industry is a shitshow, and you can't outsource nursing to AI.

And please, elaborate on your psychiatry experience. That's one of the areas that would interest me if I were to pursue nursing.

>>33905008
Why would you suggest that as opposed to RPN to RN? It's probably the route I'm looking at anyways, just curious about your reasoning.

>>33905318
Thanks for the response. I'm sure when I get in it'll be fine. When I was in clinicals and had to step up and do what was needed, I didn't have much trouble sucking it up. My teacher even said she was surprised how I socialized with some of the cognitive residents. She said I did really well.

It's just the incontinent and incognitive experiences that have be second guessing things. I can't sit there and keep repeating myself to someone who I can't tell is listening or not. Women are good at doing that baby talk shit, and some of those empathatic ones are really in their element there, but I'm a very practical person. I like to get shit done and not waste time on excessively pitying someone, you know? I've been a patient and I hated being talked to like that. I also kinda just went the cna route because they need males in the field and it seemed like a mostly sure thing, maybe I could even compete pay rates between employers.

Do you have any other advice you would want you to know when you started? Or what I should expect as a man? I can get along with women just fine, but I kind of get the impression most of the men in this field are gay, and being a straight cis male makes me stick out. During orientation, a stranger homo introduced himself to me when there were a hundred women in the room he could have talked to ffs. I really just worry I won't belong with women and homos, but I told myself I would do it for now for the money

>>33905249
I call it "sudden-onset hostility", and it is surprisingly common. Stay calm and face the shitstorm when it hits; don't cringe and cower and try to avoid it, because that's only going to humiliate you and make the hostility feel ten times worse.

>>33905421
>whole bunch of stakeholders dicking around
I'm sorry to tell you that profit and shareholders are very much a part of healthcare, and half the shit we have to deal with is because of them. Quality metrics, reviews, admissions, getting told how to do your job by people who don't even know what Tylenol is. This is especially the case in for profit hospitals, but Canadian healthcare is more socialized so I am not exactly sure how it is for you folks. I get your point though anon.
>The industry is a shitshow, and you can't outsource nursing to AI.
Stability is a fair point, that is actually one of the pros of nursing. You will always have a job, with the caveat of it being bedside of course. If you want to get a better job down the line though anon, you will be competing withg many 10 plus year veteran nurses who want to leave bedside, so it will be quite difficult. It took me one year of job applications to escape inpatient psych. However, you will not make good money starting out, especially in Canada from what I've heard.
>elaborate on your psychiatry experience
You will frankly meet the worst of the worst society has to offer. People have no idea how many people in society live to exploit it. I have seen it all in psych. Mood disorders, anxiety, chronic schizophrenics, detoxers, I've even taken care of rapists and child predators (haven't had a murderer as a pt afaik). Most of them are apathetic and will just do the bare minimum so they get out of inpatient psych. I can count on my fingers the amount of times I feel like I helped someone who was truly receptive. Then you also have a good chunk of people who are just outright malicious and seek to harm you physically and mentally. As a man, you will be expected to step up and assist with taking down patients. You will fight people, you will be attacked, and you will have to give forced injections. You can never drop your guard in psych, even when acuity is low. (1/2)

>>33905421
You must have excellent observational skills in order to do this job, because shit can hit the fan quick. You need to master the art of speech and de-escalation, and you must maintain a poker face at all times, because patients will use anything they can against you. You must have a good team that you trust, so that you all always have each other's backs. Never trap yourself in someone's room, and always be aware of your surroundings.

On the bright side, you won't have to deal with much medical stuff. No IVs, no medical skills for the most part besides passing meds. Sometimes you need to do some wound care. If you are connected to a hospital, you might be excepted to do the occasional straight cath, especially with geris. Also you will likely develop good and strong bonds with people, trauma bonding and shared experiences. It is a job that requires that high level of trust, so you will also meet many cool people that are relaxed and helpful. The day is not as busy compared to a medical nurse, but when shit hits the fan, you need to do whatever it takes to control the situation. There is a reason why most people don't want to work psych, even if they insult us for not being "real nurses"/"easy nursing". (2/2)

>>33905429
I get you anon. For the baby talk, people aren't going to talk to their coworkers like that for the most part, it is just a mask people put on with patients. Customer service, right?

>Discrimination
It has never been an issue for me. I suggest you work in areas that will have a higher concentration of men (ER, psych, ICU, med/surg at times). Usually, that sort of cattiness towards men is in specialties prone to it. Pediatrics, OB, OR, Labor and delivery. People in these areas can be quite territorial, so I would avoid it except for maybe peds if I were you. Avoid fucking your coworkers, do not have relationships with them if you know what is good for you. Do not date nurses ever, they will ruin your life.
>Do you have any other advice you would want you to know when you started?
Advice for working as a nurse, nursing school, or getting along with people? Specify what you need and I'll be happy to tell you.

>>33905555
Nursing in general, I guess? I get along well with most of my aasociates in evs, but I can pretty much do or say whatever I want there. I mean we swear and tell each other to fuck off and stuff, all jokes. It's probably a different crowd in the actual healthcare work. Seems like everybody has some front, and I've always been pretty down to earth, no-bullshit. I managed to sometimes talk to one nurse who was there on contract and it's crazy how quick he opened up and was straight up honest to me about things I asked. There's an area I restock where some of the nurses hide and gossip to get a break. Most of them pretend I don't exist though, and that's everywhere.

>Avoid fucking your coworkers, do not have relationships with them if you know what is good for you. Do not date nurses ever, they will ruin your life.
Why? Most of them do seem the type, but I might have one flirting with me. Another one is always eyeballing me but then I try to talk to her and she's just cold as fuck. I assume it's the job class difference. Like they think they're above me even though I look better than the majority of men they work with. What the fuck ever. I'm not exactly pursuing anyone at work because I realize I also can't afford these bitches.

But do explain. I was considering advancing with the flirting with this one girl, but I'm already second guessing that too. I mean I get this sneaking feeling something isn't right with them but I can't place it. Like maybe they just go on power trips playing men.

>>33905668
I'll address dating your coworkers first. Firstly, words travels fast and everyone will know about it. You private life will become part of work, and you won't be able to escape it. So if you break up, everyone will know and you will be forced to work with her. Nurses are also nymphomaniacs in general, they will prey on who they think they can win over. Power imbalances can be a thing too like you said. I used to know a guy that got manipulated by a nurse older than him with alcohol and sexual provocations. She also tried to babytrap someone in the past. It is just such a big headache with so many variables that can go wrong that I would suggest you forget about it.

>Nursing in general, I guess?
People are not scared to talk about reality in nursing? People bond through trauma and experiences, so you will be surprised to see how people open up. Especially in specialties like ED and psych, people will actually be really chill to talk to. Don't take them not talking to you personally unless they are being actively hostile. They are just on break snacking and are venting before heading to the unit. If you say hi to them and just exchange a few words when you pass through, you would be surprised how friendly they will get.

As for specifically nursing, you first year will be your roughest as you learn how to actually be a nurse. School is the foundational knowledge, but everything comes together only in practice. Listen to your preceptors, don't be a know it all. Always ask for help and learn to delegate, people will help you. Learn how to manage your time, learn to prioritize tasks. Learn the common medications that you use in your specialty. Remember your fundamentals, your critical thinking will naturally develop. Eventually, you will be doing your RN duties without constantly second guessing yourself once you get experience and confidence with your clinical judgement. You are the nurse, techs and others that assist you on the unit have to defer to you.

>>33905758
There is so much advice I could give that I could fill this whole thread with ramblings. Trust yourself and your intelligence, and you will succeed.

>>33905532
>stakeholders
Oh I don't deny that they're a part of healthcare, and that you probably deal with a lot of shit because of them. But to my mind there's a very big difference in offering healthcare while jumping through asinine hoops, and shifting a goddamn fucking webpage element back and forth and back and forth and back and forth over the course of month because people don't know what they want (an extreme example, but one I've dealt with in the past).

>stability
I'd be fine working bedside to start, even if I'm sure the novelty would wear off fast. As for the money I've looked into salaries: I wouldn't be taking that huge of a pay cut (feds have really good benefits up north, but in IT especially the pay leaves something to be desired). Besides, with recent provincial grants a good chunk if not all of my tuition would be covered if I stay local, which is a win given I don't intend on moving.

>psychiatry
It sounds stressful. Also, weird as it might sound, I like the sound of a scrap? I have a blue belt in BJJ, and I've never been opposed to getting punched in the face given I've done some Muay Thai in the past. Obviously I wouldn't ever be applying submissions/hitting back, but if it comes to control based grappling I've got a good base. It helps that I'm a reasonably big guy. As for de-escalation, I've done some volunteering in homeless shelters and have some experience. Obviously I'd need to know more, and I'm certain there are avenues to learn verbal techniques which I would take, but I can keep a level head while being screamed at and threatened. Thanks for sharing, weirdly you might have moved it up a couple notches on what I'd wanna pursue.

>>33899017
You will regret it. The medical field is more soulless than corporate programming.

>>33905993
Sounds fake

>>33905989
>I like the sound of a scrap?
Well, if you ever actually decide to go into psychiatry, keep in mind that there are cameras in most places. Where cameras are, you have to basically use methods that they teach you in their useless crisis prevention courses. Usually you will have one guy for each outer extremity. Out of cameras though, you and the team have some more freedom to take someone down with different techniques ;). However, if you are ever in a situation with no backup, and you need to defend yourself, swing away man. Your license is not worth your life. Lord knows how many people I have seen get hurt badly.

Dw about verbal stuff, they will teach you. It just takes time, practice and finding your own style. Good luck anon if this is what you decide to do. Despite it all, I am crazy enough to like it over pushing fluids in medical. Maybe you are too.

>>33906344
Thanks for all the info anon. I really appreciate it.

i got a STEM degree but it seems like i reached my peak on what i can do with it, specially without a phd/masters.
i've been thinking about pivoting, perhaps to nursing, but im 34 years old and feel like im too fucked time-wise to transition to another career, let alone spend years studying for it in the first place.

>>33907163
If you get the degree you can start practicing by 40. By 60 you'll have worked the career for 20 years. I'd say that's worth it.

>>33898984 (OP)
Just get into outpatient rehabilitation like physical therapy or whatever there are several. Better specialized, higher pay, you have a general idea of what kinds of patients to expect and you'll be genuinely helping people on the mend.
But if you thrive in chaos, go ahead and go for nursing.

>>33907506
I can see the appeal. That being said, I do actually enjoy some chaos.

>>33898984 (OP)
I think if you're going to go back to school for 3-4 years to change careers you should seriously consider becoming a physician as medical school is typically 4 years long anyway. The medical field needs good primary care physicians and you sound like you have a good heart. I've known a lot of nurses and in my opinion nursing is not the best idea. You will put up with a lot of shit (sometimes literally). It might seem nice on paper but the reality is very different.

>>33907163
Similar situation but different fields. I'm 30 and got my master's degree in the humanities, thinking about pivoting towards law school because going back to re-do everything to pursue STEM/medicine would take 2-3 years. I need a job with better employment prospects and earning potential and I'd rather not be surrounded by 20 years olds. Have you ever considered law? What do you think of it?

>>33908522
I appreciate the sentiment, but frankly my grades probably bar me from med school. Nursing is doable with specific programs in my area though.

>>33908532
Law school would certainly be stimulating, but working in a medical setting appeals to me more.

>>33898984 (OP)
CRNAs make absolute bank, more than doctors in some specialties. Not a bad job at all from what I've heard.

>>33908219
I've seen several med students drop out first year though due to some mental ineptitude for the future work though they have the IQ capacity. Might be as simple as the stress, afraid of blood, or the dread of handling the weight of a human life by their decisions and simple mistakes. You're a comspci graduate right, why not get a job inside a hospital as some IT or something. Get a feel of what the field actually is from observation and interaction with those living the life. You have a good heart anon, but empathy burnout is a thing . I just intuit it's some sort of midlife crisis or boredom at your current status quo. But no one here really knows you and sometimes we don't even fully know ourselves. Whatever you decide to do, good luck.

>>33911354
You make some fair points. I'm gonna be saving up for the next year and a half to make sure I have all my expenses covered during school, and in that time I hope to talk more in depth with some nurses I know about the day to day, whether I'd be suited for it, etc.