Debatable. They're not organisms so much as pieces of information that copy themselves. You can't kill them, only damage or destroy them. They do evolve and change. Going by the way we define life as we know it they aren't, but if you cast your net wider then maybe. They're really fucking weird.

>>4994465 (OP)
No, by the standard definition of a living thing

>>4994465 (OP)
If you have a penis over 5 inches and don't care about semantic bullshit, yes. For all practical considerations they're life or at least close enough to it the distinction is meaningless.

discounting viruses as non-living has got to be one of the most narrow-minded possible viewpoints a "scientist" could have. Pure dogma. Imagine we find alien life that more resembles viral structures than cellular ones. You think they wouldn't immediately change the definition? Of course they would.

>>4994558
Saying viruses aren't living organisms is more for practical classifications purposes since you could debate what "life" is forever. There's no real debate to be had, most scientists recognize it as entirely arbitrary.

>>4994465 (OP)
Yes, viruses are alive, sentient, and have malicious intent. They're probably aliens.
Only a retard would look at something that looks like a bacteriophage and say it's not some sort of bug.
Most generous take: They're as non-living as a tree, which is generally considered alive.

>>4994558
There's an infinite about of Things, we just try to group them or draw lines so we can make sense of some of it and know what we're talking about with our limited language and cognition. Systems are in place because they work for their purpose. Terms for law and work like this would be examples where rigid definitions are useful, if not needed, for practicality. You can still explore it or get philosophical outside their context, so long as the terms stand for their purpose within it. If you're convincing enough with it, you may even manage to change the contextual term.

>>4994465 (OP)
>people think these things arose "naturally"
Humanity is capable of evil beyond your comprehension.

>>4994813
viruses are self replicating chemicals units, not living things. they look scifi because they're basically just geometric arrangements of large chemicals instead of life as you know it (which is the same concept but with lots of extra bits)

>>4994558
Viruses rely on cellular life to propagate though.

>>4994819
Aren't we all?

>>4994825
Yes, but you also can't kill/cure it either

>>4994825
So do I.

>>4994825
and all consumers require life to survive, but nothing above phytoplankton are labeled obligate parasitoid chemical structures instead of life
not to mention plenty of parasites also require other life forms to propagate... It's so silly. Imagine if some form of cellular life evolved into a viral "body"plan and people claimed it wasn't a life form now because of it. It's just insane. Kind of like that one dog cancer that's an independent dog, technically speaking.

>>4994939
Okay but if we find alien viral analogues they would necessitate alien cell analogues since a virus can’t reproduce itself making it a moot point hypothetical.

>>4994951
Yeah and next you'll tell me that if there's a multiviral organism that's symbiotically linked with single cellular organisms that the multiviral organism isn't an organism

>>4994966
yes, because viruses are not living things

>>4994976
What if death is just a state of mind?

>>4994976
you hold fast to a needlessly rigid definition

>>4994465 (OP)
They're self replicating (sort of) biotic micelles basically, but they're not "quite" living (nor organisms) but I'd classify them as "life" nonetheless

>>4994978
viruses dont have a mind either
>>4994981
so you define it then, what constitutes a living thing

>>4994939
a parasitic fly or worm or whatever doesn't need a host to propogate in the same way that a virus does. something like a botfly uses normal insect sexual reproduction, they just lay the eggs in a host. a virus physically cannot create more viruses without hijacking a cell's mechanisms.

>There are viruses that parasitize other viruses.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virophage

>There are viruses that are just a loose strand of RNA that doesn't code for any protein.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viroid

How deep does the rabbit hole go?

>>4995001
>what constitutes a living thing
the nexus of reproduction and the code that creates its form. If a construct of nature has a series of segments anywhere within that defines its form and it was formed in that way in order to reproduce, it's life. This would include viruses, but also hypothetical macro-combinants based on crystalline structures or artificial/digital/mechanical life, and obviously provides the groundwork for non-?NA-based reproductive structures which I have no doubt could occur in an alien genesis event outside of earth. It also provides for non-reproducing organisms that would have or could have derived from reproducing ancestors. Only thing that's truly being avoided here are 1.) phenomenal, spontaneous generations of an independent entity (say a series of minerals lined up just so on an alien planet and was struck by electricity that it created a momentary existence of a sentient or sapient consciousness in that substrate such that if it were to be continually charged with electricity it ought to be considered novel life sentimentally) but that's borderline anomalous and monumentally unlikely to occur, and 2.) noncorporeal or otherwise physics-transcending entities, which we don't really think are possible right now and if they were labeling them something other than life might be reasonable considering their assumed inherent nature.

>>4994465 (OP)
>Are viruses living organisms?
If they were found on Mars, would NASA and journos claim they found life?
Yes.
I consider most insects to be akin to automatons. But they're just as alive as you or me. It's all a matter of perspective on what it is to be "alive."

>>4995193
How would they be on Mars without something else to allow them to propagate?

>>4995213
smoke and mirrors

>>4995213
How are they here, then? not like they could arise without life being present. Almost like they're a component of the overall biosphere of the planet. You know, an example of life there.
Plus, why couldn't they have some simple unexpected variant that allows for a viral organism to be motile and deliberate independent of cellular life?

>>4995177
wouldnt make sugar crystals alive

>>4994465 (OP)
They don't have a metabolism. Life is an uphill battle against entropy.

>>4995371
Does sugar have a genetic code?

>>4995425
>goalpost
moved

>>4994465 (OP)
weird how super evolved life forms regularly job to what is essentially just strings of code

>>4994825
That's just a minimalist predatory reproduction system. There are lots of animals that require certain conditions, even laying in other animal's living bodies or corpses. I say they are alive.

>>4994555
Upvoted

>>4995009
I cant replicate myself without someone else's egg cells, am I not life now?

>>4995602
Your cells are replicating right now, smartass.

>>4995652
Cells are not me stupid

>>4995549
>life is reproduction + code
<wouldn't make sugar crystals alive
>does sugar have code?
<GOALPOSTS MOVED
?????????????????

>>4995668
You are cells stupid

>>4994465 (OP)
Viruses are proof of hostile alien influence.
They shouldnt exist.
It doesnt make sense why any simple organism would act or evolve into the nature of virues. Its a tool engineered by a higher being. And id have more time for regliousfags and their intelligent design theories if they werent so adamant about it being a single benevolent creator.

>>4994564
practical classifications purposes don't matter, you can't redefine words to suit your "science". sorry scientists didn't get that memo. they are subversive language terrorists.

>>4995325
A viral organism thats motile and deliberately independent of cellular life is not a viral organism anymore. The concept of a virus is it being dependant on cellular life

>>4995381
I don't agree at all. Entropy is an imparity in the distribution of energy. Life, generally speaking, only dissipates energy in any long term perspective. Therefore, life is not working against entropy. Life is a consequence of the progression of entropy, at least as far as we can observe.

>>4995549
you did not read his post before asking a retarded question, just take the L dude

ancient bioweapons
I mean fuck, look at the op's pic. This shit's entire point is to replicate and kill hosts. Thats it. We human beings at least invented anal sex, jazz music, and petting zoos in the meantime..

not to mention how they are built. literal machines for some of them. gives me the willies.

>>4994813
I don't even think they're real at all. Being sick is just your body detoxing. Plus all viruses images are 100% CGI anyways, they have no real proof

>>4994465 (OP)
Bacteriophages look like freaky robots, and the Coronavirus looks like a gross fungus.

Yes, they're just specialized parasites
>BUT THEY CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT-
Parasites. This whole dumb "that depends"/"middle ground" debate is pointless, either something is organic and alive or organic and not alive. And this is doubly true for viruses that are originated from actual cells.

I would say viruses aren't life. They come in many shapes, but they all boil down to being different containers for genetic material. They don't produce or use energy at all either. For something to be 'alive' imo they would need to at least have some ability to use energy to perform a task. Viruses just float around aimlessly dumping genetic material whenever they come in contact with life. They don't 'do' anything, they just exist.

>>4994465 (OP)
I guess the new narrative they want to push is saying viruses are alive to cover for the scamdemic and the military weapon injections and justify the maimings and deaths from the shots (or how about what morticians have been finding?). So anyone who's saying it's alive is basically a useful idiot, just like anyone who's saying novid came from a lab - because it was never isolated and purified, because it never existed.

https://old.bitchute.com/video/n4ROIQ8pGAuq/
https://old.bitchute.com/video/y2yISRvXylQt/

>how dare you criticize DARPA pharma products and the one world government propaganda to push it across the globe
Eat shit, normalfaggots. I bet you don't even know about chemtrails, V2K, targeted electronic/microwave harasssment, and morgellons. And if you do, most of you are cowards who won't talk about it because you're afraid of saying the emperor has no clothes or being mocked for speaking up about something the media shames people into silence over.

If you got the shot, you injected graphene oxide nanotech (could vary depending on the batch), you can look up the pictures of it under a microscope. Why graphene oxide? They want a total surveillance grid, where your body itself powers the surveillance technology.

>>4994558
>Imagine we find alien life that more resembles viral structures than cellular ones.
Ayylmaos are reddit. In fact, it's the most reddit part of /x/, because it aligns perfectly with the state-funded creation myths of the big bang and evolutionism. And why are those the state funding religious beliefs? because it makes the perfect slaves who look to the government and the "experts" to tell them what to think and what to do, and how to wear the mask, and how far apart to be from others. You're like the spacefags on /sci/ too.

>>4995562
Evolution is a lie too, just like abiogenesis, and the big bang. Violates laws of science, never passed the scientific method, but you go on believing because you were programmed to believe it.

>>4997718
Meant this one for the second link instead of the same video twice:
https://old.bitchute.com/video/EsQqsNU8PYvM/

>>4997718
>I guess the new narrative they want to push is saying viruses are alive to cover for the scamdemic and the military weapon injections and justify the maimings and deaths from the shots (or how about what morticians have been finding?). So anyone who's saying it's alive is basically a useful idiot, just like anyone who's saying novid came from a lab - because it was never isolated and purified, because it never existed.
what the hell does that have to do with anything? The sars cov2 shit was a hoax/scam and we know because of the surplus PCR tests provided before they could have been made and like you said, the virus has never been isolated in a lab. But viruses are alive because they have genes and they reproduce by recombining those genes.

>>4997718
>Ayylmaos are reddit. In fact, it's the most reddit part of /x/, because it aligns perfectly with the state-funded creation myths of the big bang and evolutionism. And why are those the state funding religious beliefs? because it makes the perfect slaves who look to the government and the "experts" to tell them what to think and what to do, and how to wear the mask, and how far apart to be from others. You're like the spacefags on /sci/ too.
this is just bait, clearly. Look, I actually believe a lot of schizo shit, I think current theory of evolution is wrong because of a lack of sufficient evidence that carbon dating and similar methods actually predict age, and I think the state absolutely is creating pseudo-religious doctrine in order to better pacify people... obviously. I also only used aliens as the example, considering it was in my opinion fair to argue from a secular POV because it is the most common one. But disregarding whether it was fair or not, you didn't actually argue against it, just say that I was wrong because I clearly believed x, y, and z along with my hypothetical. Also space is real don't be dumb, the Bible described the earth as a sphere flying through a void dummy.

>>4997718
Sniveling faggot hops into a thread he knows he'll hate with his truckload of projection in a desperate attempt to cling to some misplaced sense of superiority.
Nobody cares that you think you've unlocked the matrix truth. Your asinine midwit bullshit doesn't impress anyone, and if you really wanted to fight the beast you would be lurking outside the homes of corporate executives with a hammer and a pistol you larping faggot.

>>4994466
Living information? Isnt that what we are?

>have genetic code
>mutate, evolve and adapt
>drive to reproduce
They're not alive because....I just said so, okay?!

Explain why they arent they real life zombies

>>4994565
>pic
No one says that.

>>4994465 (OP)
Are Chinese living organisms?

>>4994465 (OP)
They are not alive the same reason 1 is not a prime number.
Because we say it does not count, because if we count it then it would ruin the whole point of the concept.

>>4998415
that literally makes 0 sense

>>4995381
>They don't have a metabolism
This right here. This is the whole thing that made me switch sides to them not being "life". There's no additional qualifiers needed for this to make sense.

>>4998644
What part do you need help with?

>>4995884
>subversive language terrorists.
That would actually be poor/illiterate people. Especially the highly melanated ones.

>>4994565
Low IQ post, bait or not.

>>4995892
>The concept of viral life is it being dependant on cellular life.
tftfy to be more biologically inclusive

>>4996119
>We human beings at least invented anal sex
Not gonna take somebody seriously when their idea of the epitomy of human achievement is poopsex, which retarded (gay) animals invented anyway.

>>4998671
seems like a very bizarre line in the sand to draw

>>4994465 (OP)
A living organism is a cell or made up of cells.

>>4998870
It’s about as objective a line as can be drawn.

>>4999027
disregarding the potential of living things that aren't cell-based is silly and objectively near-sighted

>>4999027
whoops mixed up 2 different posts

>>4994465 (OP)
Yes.
The virion is simply the extracellular phase of the virus. The actual virus, the virocell, is alive.
Plasmids are also viruses but with a less destructive life strategy.

>>4994465 (OP)
Viruses are alien nanobots sent to keep humanity in check

>>4994565
>>4995849
>>4999486
>>4996119
>>>/x/

>>4994465 (OP)
Viruses descend from bacteria that evolved towards minimalistic parasitism and rogue eukaryotic genes. They're undergoing selectiv pressure, are subject to evolution. They're inarguably part of the domain 'Life'
They are, of course, inert unless actually colliding with a potential host. But most life relies on other life to exist. Viruses are only unique insofar as they cannot use other life's resources through their own metabolism, they rely on the host's metabolism instead.
And while they're inert unless in contact with a host, they're emphatically not inert when actually inside a host. Again, just a very small step removed from hibernating bacteria or, say, bears.
That there is a debate at all is that the original definition of 'Life' required a metabolism, as viruses (and the molecular mechanisms driving evolution) weren't yet known. But that's not a reason to exclude replicating organisms that clearly evolved from metabolic organisms and continue to evolve from life. That's a reason to update the definition of 'Life'.

>>4997718
I am vaxxed and I have microscoped my blood like five times with no results but red blood cells.
>"You've gotten a lucky batch"
What's the fucking point in placebo batches when they want a control matrix?!
Don't get me wrong, I feel betrayed I had to inject myself with mystery juice to keep my job, but fear mongering faggots like you are just as bad.

If nothing happens you will push your narrative forever.
If all vaxxed die you faggots will gloat at it just because a hand full of retards was mean to you.
>morticians
Pic related is a fibrin clot from a catheter, they also form after you fucking die because your blood clots when you die. This shit will happen in anyone, "purebloods" and vaxxies
I even saw you niggers posting pictures of gorgonians(corals) snd claimed it was a biological antennae theat grows inside people now, and fuckniggers gobbled it up

>>4994465 (OP)
I don't know. are my blood cells alive?

>>5002633
Theres a lot of disinfo around this spread by the corpos themselves

MRNA vaccines are more dangerous than the other two options, due to overproduction of whole spike protein. Which is the part of the virus that hurts you the most. They were approved 20 years too early because US investors were billions into R&D and wanted to profit now just in case the economy went tits up.

Adjuvant and inactivated virus vaccines are 3-5 times safer than MRNA vaccines.

>>4994465 (OP)
no, they do not posses a metabolism
if they don't have anything else around them they are as inert as a rock
if viruses were classified as life then so would proteins, ribosomes DNA and RNA

>>4995076
>Viroid
I don't know why I find that name funny

>>4997718
>because it was never isolated and purified, because it never existed.
It has been isolated and purified, there's tons of protein structures on RSCB PDB.
>I bet you don't even know about chemtrails, V2K, targeted electronic/microwave harasssment, and morgellons.
Ok so schizo fearmongering, schizo fearmongering, schizo fearmongering, and schizo self harm? Like I thought you had maybe even a little bit of sense until I read that part. This genuinely looks scripted and I wouldn't be surprised if that was bait.
>If you got the shot, you injected graphene oxide nanotech (could vary depending on the batch), you can look up the pictures of it under a microscope. Why graphene oxide? They want a total surveillance grid, where your body itself powers the surveillance technology.
Genuine random bullshit with 0 proof. Looked it up and all I saw were some carbon hexagons, like what is even your point here lmao?
>Ayylmaos are reddit. In fact, it's the most reddit part of /x/, because it aligns perfectly with the state-funded creation myths of the big bang and evolutionism. And why are those the state funding religious beliefs? because it makes the perfect slaves who look to the government and the "experts" to tell them what to think and what to do, and how to wear the mask, and how far apart to be from others. You're like the spacefags on /sci/ too.
Okay so if none of that's the truth and it's all "state-funded myths" despite it having 100% factual proof, then how do you think the universe came to be?
>Evolution is a lie too, just like abiogenesis, and the big bang. Violates laws of science, never passed the scientific method, but you go on believing because you were programmed to believe it.
How does it violate any laws if millions of verified scientists claim it's true? I don't get the "ur brainwashed 2 believe it!!" crap. Who would be brainwashing people and why are they even doing it in the first place?

>>4995076
Too deep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obelisk_(biology)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defective_interfering_particle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_subviral_agents

>>4994465 (OP)
We haven't decided yet

>>5002633
>Don't get me wrong, I feel betrayed I had to inject myself with mystery juice to keep my job, but fear mongering faggots like you are just as bad.
>Being forced into taking an untested or malicious drug
is the same as
>people saying not to take drugs if you're being forced into it because nothing good can come from that
??????????? That's an absurd line.

>>4995381
>They don't have a metabolism
What if it's just really really really really slow

>>5002863
its inert tho...the halflife of its chemical bonds would break it down

>>5002808
Proteins don't actively make copies of themselves when you touch them. Is a dessicated tardigrade also not alive?

>>5002633
see
>>5002783


While the entire forced vaccination was by all means bullshit spread on top of bullshit with little regards for safety and regulation, it is nowhere near as bad as what you could hear in conspiracies stories.

I'm marking this little fact here, it was necessary to have wacky conspiracies bloom everywhere around it, made everyone including myself confused, just enough to forget that basically they used covid as an excuse to test how well everyone cooperate with the system, and made a killing out of it. After a long ass time studying the thing under every possible angles, this is my conclusion.

I did notice everyone around me got their immunity permanently affected though. that much I'm willing to attribute to the vax, but thats it.

The real thing about it was that they forced the near entire world population to get it, and that is grim as fuck. We've seen a display of coordinated operations bloom for a short while, and I just wish that this degree of mutual cooperation was for something else than just a massive cashgrab operation done at the expense of every civilians on earth, ever. The worst is the mental gymnastics normies had to impose on themselves to pretend this was sane and normal lol. poor souls. It is likely a similar scenario will happen again in the future so get prepared fellas. It worked once, don't see why it wouldnt work twice.

>>4997718
anyone have the edit where Morpheus is holding one of those knockoff chinese brands?

>>4994465 (OP)
honestly i think we should change the way we understand a living organism
instead of being a yes/no answer it should be a more relative one like >less/more alive than...
viruses are living beings beings, just not as alive as other lifeforms

>>5004021
I vote for this from the virus-is-alive camp, great way of solving the problem while acknowledging its nuance. You can additionally include thresholds into such a spectrum that would allow you to discuss traditional life in its current non-virus definition by simply defining it as a vector along that spectrum. Very good.

>>4994465 (OP)
They're very large organic molecules that turn cells into copies of their molecular structure. That's it. They are otherwise inert and cannot react to stimulus or metabolize energy, capabilities that all other forms of life share. Even the smallest cell possesses the capabilities of reaction and energy usage. You may as well ask if prions are organisms as well.

>>5004470
>they feature [trait of certain forms of life x] but not [trait of certain forms of life y] or [trait of certain forms of life z]
>so they're not life cus uh they don't have features that some other life forms have yeah
like saying a lizard isn't life cus it doesn't have fur

>>4994465 (OP)
Nominally. Readily as they reproduce in the context of eukaryotes. they're about as remote from consciousness as computer viruses. Even Nematodes that live a live a few kilometers under are far more advanced, in that general direction/

>>5004539
what the fuck does consciousness have to do with life
and there are plenty of viruses more complex than some cells, because objectively life-definition-compliant cells can come in very simple packages
complexity, and proximity to consciousness, has nothing to do with whether something is alive or not

AYO WHY THESE NIGGAS LOOK LIKE PLAYSTATION 1 ENEMIES

>>4994465 (OP)
No cuz no metabolism and shieet

>>5004546
>what the fuck does consciousness have to do with life
Imagine knowing this little about natural history.

>>4994466
What they evolve all the time through mutation

>>4994465 (OP)
I hate how they look like they'd walk around with those "legs" but in reality likely just "float"

>>4995884
it’s not “redefining a word” dumbass it’s using just using a pre-existing word to designate a specific concept within a specific context, the word remains the same in vernacular english.

>>5006644
buddy I get what you're saying but that is literally redefining a word

>>5004531
They're not life because they lack features that literally every other life form has. Are you going to call AI life because it shows one trait (reaction) while lacking all the others?

>>5006925
>they're not alive cus ummm...... cus uhhhh...... cus of this new rule I put in place that specifically excludes them
like claiming that only multicellular life was life, moron

>>5007237
I have no idea why you think I'm pulling this out of thin air.You understand that living things are not inert and have the capacity for sensation and reaction, right?

>>5007260
>You understand that living things are not inert and have the capacity for sensation and reaction, right?
tardigrade is not a living thing, check

>>5007286
Of course tardigrades have the capacity for sensation and reaction. Why would they not? They're animals like any other.

>>5007428
They go through periods of no metabolic activity and do not react to the environment or sense it whatsoever. Therefore, they are not alive.

>>5007455
>through periods
pure rhetoric you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, you don't believe in your argument

>>5007581
That's the point, genius. The argument doesn't work for tardigrades and it doesn't work for viruses.

>>5007716
Except it does, because being inert is not the default state of a tardigrade, nor are tardigrades even relevant to viruses

>>5007737
Being inert is also not the "default state" of the virus, obviously, because why would a virus have evolved into its current form that can parasitize cells otherwise? Besides, what does "default state" even mean? Is it the state something is most commonly observed in? Why would it matter if the most commonly observed state is one of stasis, waiting for its next host? Plenty of other living things do that, and the only real difference is that viruses are small enough to get away with needing little to no maintenance during that stasis... Your line of logic is conceptually flawed.

>>5007747
It quite literally is, yes. Even the most rudimentary cell in existence will react to stimulus, continually seek out energy, and maintain homeostasis. Viruses have none of these capabilites, they are quite literally just complex chemicals. If you want to argue that viruses are a form of life, you're going to have to argue that prions are as well since they're both made of organic molecules and they both spread through other living things.

>>4994465 (OP)
The closer you zoom in on biology, the more contradictions you will find in basically any definition of the state "alive". The error is that life is not a property or a state of an object, it is instead a process. You can very clearly define a process that a virus participates in that results in the birth of new viruses.

>>5007755
okay, so do rocks, that doesnt make a rock a living thing

>>5007792
Says you

science related to biology is generally retarded
We can’t even agree what sex is anymore and it’s okay to eat plant life but not animal life because ?????

>>5008511
>Plant life vs animal life

Ability to suffer and consciousness. Why is it so hard for you to comprehend?

>>5008518
Define consciousness and suffering and try not to limit it to ape like reasoning “me feel this way therefor all must comply to it”

Are trees that send out distress signals to other trees when attacked, who in return start producing toxic compounds not a sign of communication of suffering?

Does an organism need eyes and be worried about bills for you to consider it worthy of being treated humanely?

>>5008518
1: Not all suffering is wrong or even relevant.
2: Theoretical consciousness alone does not make something "holy" in absence of any god or universal spirituality.