Thread 5041864

I am dead scared of diving with sperm whales because they can do to you what a submarine does when it launches a ping (aka vibrate your body with 265 dB clicks till you turn into mush). They could kill an entire diving party before it could even see them. The line between a wondrous experience and an atrocious death is drawn by the whim of an animal no smarter than a dog, and this frightens me immensely.

>>5041864 (OP)
Sperm whales are much more intelligent than dogs (or cats)

>>5041867
They're the dumbers of whale kind, alongside baleens.

One of the reasons why orcas are better.

>>5041869
No they aren't

>>5041871
Sperm whales destroy orcas with their poop missiles

>>5041864 (OP)
isn't it interesting how therir brains don'gt mush?
>it's directed!
you can direct shit shit like vibration only so much

>>5041906
You can easily direct sound, and it's even easier to direct it in water where it moves faster and dissipates slower. Also
>he's comparing the physiology of a 50 t deep diving animal with that of a human

>>5041869
>They're the dumbers of whale kind, alongside baleens.
Sperm whales are the only whales that developed complex tactics to avoid whaling ships.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/17/sperm-whales-in-19th-century-shared-ship-attack-information

wright wales, humpback whales and blue whales never worked this out and so suffered far greater population reductions.

>>5041867
>Sperm whales are much more intelligent than dogs
I would actually place grey wolves on a similar level with orcas and sperm whales.
Keeping in mind that grey wolves in general show more advanced problem solving abilities than intelligent breeds of dog and also have significantly larger brains (25% larger).
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11299805/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf4C_EMz5Fc

>>5041871
>One of the reasons why orcas are better.
I used to rank Orcas as above Sperm whales in intelligence but when you actually compare novel behaviors that are pretty much neck to neck in intellectual feats.
Sperm whales also have fairly complex diets too.

" Long-line fishing operations in the Gulf of Alaska complain that sperm whales take advantage of their fishing operations to eat desirable species straight off the line, sparing the whales the need to hunt."

"Video footage has been captured of a large male sperm whale "bouncing" a long line, to gain the fish"

"Sperm whales are believed to prey on the megamouth shark, a rare and large deep-sea species discovered in the 1970s.[161] In one case, three sperm whales were observed attacking or playing with a megamouth"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_whale#Ecology

>>5041914
>Keeping in mind that grey wolves in general show more advanced problem solving abilities than intelligent breeds of dog and also have significantly larger brains (25% larger)
I would say they’re smarter than dogs, not anywhere near as smart as whales

Comparing Encephalization Quotients -

Sperm whales (female EQ = 1.28, male EQ = 0.56)
(Sperm whale males are three times the mass of females)

Killer whales ( 2.3 to 3.0 EQ )

Blue whales 0.19 EQ

Grey wolf 1.68 EQ

Bottlenose dolphin 4.0 to 5.0 EQ

https://escholarship.org/content/qt4jv59569/qt4jv59569_noSplash_c8ea2ed0cc9f641e853916bb6d0b549d.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetacean_intelligence

https://academic.oup.com/evolut/article/77/7/1591/7127839
>>5041923
what would wolves need to do to be considered as intelligent as something like a bottlenose dolphin?
Bears in the past were popular circus animals and have more provable demonstrations of intelligence than wolves despite almost certainly being less intelligent than wolves. I'm just giving wolves the benefit of the doubt. I'd need to read old accounts of wolves actively hunting people to maybe get an idea.

It is interesting that the EQ of bottlenose dolphins is higher than killer whales even though killer whales are definitely more intelligent. Also interesting how the grey wolf has a higher EQ than the Sperm whale.

>>5041941
EQ is a nonsense metric. The whole brain is the roughest possible measurement. What matters more is frontal lobe volume and cortical neuron count vs body size and even this is rough as brain STRUCTURE like interconnectivity matters a lot. Chickens and small songbirds are on opposite sides of a powergap entirely because of one funny nerve pathway connecting disparate parts of the songbirds brain.

>>5041864 (OP)
no they cannot. and neither can submarines. that factoid is a gross misconception of how that shit works and is one of those reddit fuckery things like "hur dur u eat 8 spiders in ur sleep and a dolphin ejaculation would literally kill you if it hit you"

>>5041950
>EQ is a nonsense metric.
Unless it's extremely low or extremely high and you're just comparing mammals with mammals etc.
I just find it interesting.
>What matters more is frontal lobe volume and cortical neuron count vs body size and even this is rough as brain STRUCTURE like interconnectivity matters a lot.
agreed 100%.
>Chickens and small songbirds are on opposite sides of a powergap entirely because of one funny nerve pathway connecting disparate parts of the songbirds brain.
Sounds interesting. Link?

>>5041864 (OP)
You can't compare dB under water with air. To define 1 dB you need a pressure in micropascal.

Air's pressure is defined as 20 micropascals, water's pressure is defined as 1 micropascal when regarding sound pressure.

Some say you should subtract 50-100dB. Anyways it's still loud.

Then, if the clicks are high-frequent the ear is already deaf for those high sounds. If the clicks are low-frequent infrasounds, you might feel a shaking in your body.

>>5041956
>mammals with mammals
Aquatic mammals with sonar are basically their own class. Their brains are adapted to something totally alien to us and they have a whole outgrowth of the limbic system with no clear function - but they do have an extraordinary ability to precisely coordinate behavior despite lacking abstract language, and the limbic system is related to automatic behavioral synchronization.
>link?
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Brain-pathways-for-vocal-behavior-in-vocal-learning-and-vocal-nonlearning-birds-and_fig1_268809697
My theory of consciousness is it's just how rich and interconnected the dataset is.

Dogs have a human-like vocal learning pathway btw. Many mammals do, so it seems to be basal. Some birds don't.

>>5041952
>>5041864 (OP)
What we do actually know is that just a sperm whale visualization sonar ( gauging the shape via echolocation ) Is already so powerful that it has been confirmed to paralyze a researchers hand for four hours.
https://youtu.be/zsDwFGz0Okg?t=63

So assuming they have more powerful "hunting strength" clicking the reasoning is that sperm whales use it to paralyze their prey before eating it. Rather than the sound waves actually directly killing their prey.

>>5041958
>https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Brain-pathways-for-vocal-behavior-in-vocal-learning-and-vocal-nonlearning-birds-and_fig1_268809697
cheers.

>>5041958
>My theory of consciousness is it's just how rich and interconnected the dataset is.

"Apes are reported to have thicker axons than other mammals, and for fibres connecting cortical and subcortical areas in the brain, velocities of 10 m s−1 are reported, while peripheral nerves (e.g. the sciatic nerve) may reach 150 m s−1. On the other hand, the axons of cetaceans (whales and dolphins) and elephants have thin myelin sheaths and consequently relatively low conduction velocities"

"The highest IPC is found in humans, followed by the great apes, Old World and New World monkeys. The IPC of cetaceans and elephants is much lower because of a thin cortex, low neuron packing density and low axonal conduction velocity. By contrast, corvid and psittacid birds have very small and densely packed pallial neurons and relatively many neurons, which, despite very small brain volumes, might explain their high intelligence."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4685590/

"Collectively, the new studies describe over 3,000 cell types that reside in the human brain.

The main takeaway, Lein says, is that “the brain is really complex, from a cellular perspective.”."

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/human-brain-cells-new-census

Seems like your theory checks out from what we know so far.

Just cover your ears?

>>5041952
nigger, water vibrates along the hull the submarine so much that it fucking boils. a sonar ping can and will incapacitate humans, from a long distance as well, as shown when a chinese sub harassed australian divers.
https://www.bbc.com/news/67461081

>>5041864 (OP)
Why did they name an animal "cum whale"?

>>5042022
"Spermaceti is derived from Medieval Latin sperma ceti, meaning "whale sperm" (from Latin sperma meaning "semen" or "seed", and ceti, the genitive form of "whale"). The substance was initially believed to be whale semen, due to its appearance when fresh. The substance is also the origin of the name of the sperm whale."

>>5042022
bongs in their immense knowledge thought they stored sperm in the head because the spermaceti is a viscous, whiteish goo

>>5042024
>thought
There is zero evidence that they actually believed it to be whale cum instead of that they thought it was funny that the oil looked like cum.

>>5041871
>>5041914
Found it interesting, but adult male sperm whales are one of the few, if not only animal that orcas will actively not try to tangle with.

Oi bruv the bloody fish is fulla jizz

harmless
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyr1Y8OqwiY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1ljEWTl26o

>>5041984
>>5041958
>>5041956
It also depends which genes are under positive selection, eg

>We found genes related to cognitive abilities, learning, and memory [RELN (61, 62) and ADARB2 (63)]. RELN encodes for the reelin protein, which has a role in the modulation of synaptic transmission in response to experience (61, 62). Coastal bottlenose dolphins (Tursiops sp.) develop habitat-specific foraging techniques, which are transmitted maternally or in social groups (35, 36) and may require genetic adaptations for increased cognitive abilities. RELN has been found under positive selection in sea otters, which also exhibit maternally transmitted foraging behavior (64).

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abg1245

>Positive selection on RELN, which encodes the reelin protein, is particularly interesting, as it is involved in the regulation of synaptic plasticity in response to experience (Weeber et al. 2002; Tissir and Goffinet 2003). Sea otters display interindividual variation in prey preferences and tool use that are transmitted along matrilines (Estes et al. 2003; Fujii et al. 2015) which may involve genetic adaptations for increased memory and learning abilities.

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/36/12/2631/5481008

>First, although individual-level foraging/resource specialization, defined as the use of a narrower niche than the population niche [107,108], occurs among many invertebrate and vertebrate taxa both on land and in the water [107,109], individual-level specialization in tool use is rare. To the best of our knowledge, the only documented cases outside of humans occur among sea otters [69] and bottlenose dolphins [4]. Numerous factors can drive interindividual variation in foraging behaviour [107,109], but in both sea otters and dolphins tool-use specialization by some individuals is likely driven by intraspecific competition and ecological opportunity.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4027413/

>>5042134
>narwhal
I vaguely remember some meme about these some years ago.

>>5042157
Interesting.
This brings me back to something I've thought about for a long time.

For example, different metal-working technologies being Invented, transferred for a bit and then forgotten, only to be reinvented again.

Think Copper, Bronze or early iron age communities where 99.9% of the population can't read/write, transport is slow/difficult and most people are 100% self-sufficient on farms.

So populations which don't contain circulating genetics that produce individuals who can rediscover things eventually fall technology behind everyone else.

The modern era bypasses the need for these genetics with universal literacy, education and the proliferation of data storage techniques that can preserve information near indefinitely in theory.

Originating ideas is far more intellectually demanding than copying from others.

>>5041873
>poop missiles
what

>>5042246
https://www.livescience.com/animals/whales/sperm-whales-drop-bubble-of-poo-off-western-australia-to-prevent-orca-attack

Scientists witnessed the clever defense strategy unfold Tuesday (March 19) during a tourist excursion in Bremer Canyon, a whale-watching hotspot off the coast between Albany and Hopetoun. They described seeing a "cloud of diarrhea" permeate the water, and this rarely seen defense mechanism seemed to help the sperm whale pod escape what could have been a fatal attack by at least 30 killer whales, ABC News Australia reported.

"It's called defense defecation," Jennah Tucker, a marine biologist with Oceans Blueprint, a marine and environmental sciences research organization, who was on the charter boat, told ABC. When the animals defecate, she said, they pass their huge tails through their poop to drive away or confuse attackers.

Imagine being a gigachad whaler back in the days when they used to throw harpoons at the whales manually. Probably the manliest occupation in history.

>>5041864 (OP)
Diver here, sperm whales don't get near diving places, they are too close to the shores. But if I ever encounter one sperm whale I am more than willing to risk to be converted in mush, as you put it.

>>5042134
Orcas don't tangle with anything bigger than them unless they're in group, and only then when the quarry is tired, injured or old.

>>5042336
Orcas are pussies like all pack hunters

>>5041914
Porphyrios:

"a large whale that harassed and sank ships in the waters near Constantinople during the sixth century, was active for over fifty years and caused great concern for Byzantine seafarers."

"Emperor Justinian I (r. 527–565) made capturing the whale a priority, but he was unable to devise a method to do so.
The whale eventually beached itself near the mouth of the Sakarya River, likely while chasing dolphins, and became stuck in the mud.
A mob of locals attacked it with axes and ropes, hauling it further up the beach before cutting it into pieces; some consumed the meat on the spot while others took portions to cure."

>>5042520
almost all of these stories from ancient greeks/romans are made up bullshit

>>5042527
Retarded solipsism

>>5042544
almost all of these posts from modern anons are made up bullshit

>>5042544
kek ancient greeks and romans claimed that dogheaded and blue people inhabited africa, taking any bullshit they made up as fact is just silly

>>5042520
Cheers, interesting.

>>5042527
That's like saying the Roman Empire is a myth because they are mentioned in the bible alongside obvious supernatural rubbish.

>>5042549
>romans claimed that dogheaded and blue people inhabited africa
They are called Baboons and Mandrills you complete and utter imbecile.
None of you ever think about anything you ever say.
Between 4chan feds and the brown real user majority very little thinking ever happens.