Thread 5042417

tortoise

>graced with patience
>encased with a protective dome
>survives for decades, even centuries

hare

>quick witted, nimble
>fully open to overhead attacks from birds of prey
>likely to die from a heart attack due to stress

Which one wins at life?

>>5042417 (OP)
>Which one wins at life?
Not me

>>5042417 (OP)
The tortoise
>Entire lineage existed for 200+ million years
>Lives on remote islands with zero predators, just eats, sleeps and shits all day while watching birds
>Infact, almost used to be widespread on main lands around the world until humans wiped most of them out
>Can have a lifespan that can outlive dozens of generations of hares.
>Can survive stranded, floating in oceans for whole years with no food
>Built like a tank and won't die from a measly infection like a bite or scratch
Yep, im thinking reptiles win again.

>>5042466
What's the point of being alive if you have a brain so small that you're not even consciously aware of your own existence?

I'd rather be a hare.

>>5042470
Reptiles being unintelligent is a meme. Crocodilians are some of the most smartest predators out there and wood turtles can complete mazes and puzzles as good as lab rats.

>>5042471
>tortoise
"The brain of a tortoise is extremely small."

"In the 17th century, Francesco Redi performed an experiment that involved removing the brain of a land tortoise, which then proceeded to live six months. Freshwater tortoises, when subjected to the same experiment, continued similarly, but did not live so long. Redi also cut the head off a tortoise entirely, and it lived for 23 days."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortoise#Brain

>>5042569
The brain is an important part but the not the entirety of the central nervous system in some animals.

>>5042417 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvdH32h5JfM

>>5042584
Classic.

>>5042572
Aha.
snakes, Tortoises, toads, chickens, Cockroaches, praying mantises, wasps etc are well known for being the most intelligent creatures in the animal kingdom...

>>5042592
>chickens
That's not the slamdunk you think it is

>>5042596
Stand back Parrots and Corvids, here comes the genius chicken.

>>5042598
>>Parrots
The vast majority of them are retarded anon. Besides, having the durability of a partially decentralized central nervous system is not a sign of or lack of intelligence. It is just a biological feature of thr animal.

>>5042569
>>5042592
What is that supposed to prove?
The body of a chicken can survive a couple of days completely decapitated with just their brainstems intact yet they are still intelligent animals. Unless you're a moron and think birds aren't intelligent either.

>>5042592
>>5042598
Yes, chickens are more intelligent than many people realize, demonstrating complex cognitive abilities such as self-awareness, problem-solving, sophisticated communication through a range of vocalizations, empathy for other chickens, and even basic arithmetic skills. Scientific research has shown they can recognize human faces, learn from observing others, and remember individuals, proving they are not the simple, dull birds they are often perceived to be.
Cognitive & Learning Abilities
Memory and Recognition:
Chickens can recognize up to 100 different individuals, including people, and remember specific faces and voices.
Problem-Solving and Learning:
They are excellent learners, capable of learning from their environment and from watching other chickens. They can also learn to perform tasks, associate cues with rewards or punishments, and understand that hidden objects still exist.
Self-Control:
Studies show that chickens can exhibit self-control by delaying gratification for a larger reward, a complex trade-off that indicates a level of self-awareness.
Social and Emotional Intelligence
Empathy:
Chickens have demonstrated empathy by helping blind or injured flock members, even sharing food with them.
Social Structure:
They form complex social relationships within their flocks and can interpret social cues, such as calming down when their caretaker interacts calmly with a stranger.
Emotional Experience:
Research suggests chickens experience emotions and show signs of anxiety when their chicks are distressed.

>>5042602
>Chickens can recognize up to 100 different individuals
No a single scientific paper or publication demonstrates the random unsourced internet factoid you copy-pasted lol.
What a joke.

>>5042600
>>5042599
Hey guys! The tool using chickens and tortoises are going to take over guys!

>>5042607
>Hey guys! The tool using chickens and tortoises are going to take over guys!
Neither parrots or corvids, you imbecile.

>>5042607
Cope, faggot.
https://www.legalimpactforchickens.org/blog/chickens-are-smarter-than-you-think

>>5042609
Lol, you're an imbecile.

Corvids can use tools.
Chickens and tortoises can't.

IRONY!!!

>>5042614
>muh heckin corvids and tools!!1!! I just fucking love corvids anon!!!1! let me derail a tortoise / hare thread because I just want to sperg about muh HECKIN TOOL USIMG BIRDS!!!!!1111!

>>5042614
And? Lots of animals don't use tools as it's simply not convenient or needed for them.

>>5042613
Oh wow, hey guys! Let's quote and animal rights activist group!!!

"In America alone, 9 billion chickens are raised and slaughtered for food every year. Many live harsh, painful lives in conditions that the average American would consider unacceptable.
Join us in fighting to protect these animals’ welfare."

Very scientific guys!!!

Ok, let us look at the sources THEY provide and see if the "Chickens can recognize up to 100 different individuals" claim is substantiated anywhere.

1 Lori Marino, Thinking Chickens: A Review of Cognition, Emotion, and Behavior in the Domestic Chicken, US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health, 2017, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5306232/.

Not mentioned.

2 Ferris Jabr, Fowl Language: AI Decodes the Nuances of Chicken “Speech”, Scientific American, December 11, 2017, https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fowl-language-ai-decodes-the-nuances-of-chicken-ldquo-speech-rdquo/.

Not mentioned.

3 Barbara J. King, Why Chickens Are So Much More Than “Bird Brains”, TED, April 15, 2019, https://ideas.ted.com/why-chickens-are-so-much-more-than-bird-brains/.

Ok, finally something that mentions the "100 different individuals" claim. BUT, it's a fucking TED talk that once again doesn't cite a single study or scientific publication for that particular claim. Strange, because studies ARE cited for different claims but not that one.

4 Chickens Can Do Math, Science World, November 18, 2014, https://www.scienceworld.ca/stories/chickens-can-do-math/.

Not mentioned.

5 Rosa Rugani, Laura Fontanari, Eleonora Simoni, Lucia Regolin, Giorgio Vallortigara, Arithmetic in Newborn Chicks, US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health, 2009, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19364746/.

Not mentioned.

6 Rob Nelson, How Smart Are Chickens, Untamed Science, https://untamedscience.com/blog/how-smart-are-chickens/.

Mentioned but no study or scientific publication cited.

>>5042622
Continued...
Source 7 is a Dead link.
Source 8 Doesn't mention it.
Source 9 Doesn't mention it.

Ok, so you quoted clickbait shit that sources clickbait shit that you didn't read which doesn't provide a single fucking scientific paper, study or publication that proves Chickens can recognize up to 100 different individuals.

What a joke. That calls all the other stupid claims into doubt.

And you shall be christened:

Chicken Schizo.

>>5042616
Aha, we're now applying the "South Americans didn't actually need wheeled transport" logic to non-human animals. Hilarious.

>>5042615
>Autistic psychopath is so profoundly mentally retarded that they identify as a tortoise. An extremely stupid creature.

>>5042470
You're certainly harebrained

>>5042602
When i slaughter chickens the other chickens steal the head and eat it

They do not fear my hands or the hatchet. They do not fear me. I kill them in the coop.

Chickens are automatons.

>>5042680
Same goes for cows, pigs and some dogs anon.

>>5042716
>pigs
No, pigs fight back. I hate having to kill a pig. Over time they get a sense of what time of the year pigs die even if they weren’t around for it.
>some dogs
Dogs and cats don’t want to die and will fight back if they know they’re in danger.

It’s just chickens (birds aka dinosaurs have no souls) and cows (they know and fear death but herd animals evolved to accept death as a noble sacrifice that results in the safety of the group).

>>5042718
I don't know man, I swear I have seen some videos where pigs get killed next to another one and the other just doesn't respond

>>5042720
Factory farms? The germans that the so called allies executed in camps during denazification responded the same way. I’m talking about free range animals.

Pigs don’t want to die.

>>5042718
>It’s just chickens (birds aka dinosaurs have no souls)
All I can think of is the video of the cockatoo having a look of despair watching their owner cook a chicken while she points to him and tells him this is what will happen to him if he doesn't be nice.

>>5042721
>muh denazification
Patrick, your powerlevel is showing!

>>5042417 (OP)
Same can be compared to

Man of God

>tests and trials in life produced within him the virtue called patience
>encased in God's hedge of protection
>Psalms 91:16.jpeg

AtHiEsT

>intellectual, even of the psuedo type
>fully capable of being engulfed in his own anxiety
>likely to die from a heart attack due to stress

>>5042607
>>5042622
Wrong:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10071-016-1064-4

https://ideas.ted.com/why-chickens-are-so-much-more-than-bird-brains/

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/animal-science/articles/10.3389/fanim.2021.671905/full

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-startling-intelligence-of-the-common-chicken1/

>>5042907
>If I paste enough irrelevant links that don't prove the point at hand the anon will stop replying to me and that means I win.

>>5042908
They do prove the point though

>>5042629
>erm actually animals NEED to use tools or else they are dumb even though most have no efficient reason to use them in their niches
Tell me why the hell would a tortoise or chicken would want to use tools to get shit as basic as plants, insects or seeds in the wild? Tell me why tool use would evolutionarily benefit them for what they do? They aren’t major hunters for the most part. Also Animals aren’t humans btw so why you are comparing them to some outside third world people problems is out of my question
>>5042718
Most animals will defend, run away or attack when in danger you fucking halfwit. It’s not exclusively a mammal thing.

>>5042933
None of your fucking links yet again have anything to do with chickens supposedly recognize 100 different individuals.
You're a moron.
>>5042947
>Tell me why the hell would a tortoise or chicken would want to use tools

Tortoises sometimes hurt their noses when foraging around hard sharp rocks and so could benefit from holding some wood or bark in their mouths as a barrier. Similar to how dolphins protect their noses with sponges.

Chickens love eating bugs/grubs and so could use a sharp stick as a tool to extract those bugs out of rotting wood or holes in the ground akin to the way many other birds do.
Chickens love eating mealworms so don't give me excuses.
This isn't rocket science...
>Most animals will defend, run away or attack when in danger
except Chickens for some reason...

>>5042471
>Crocodilians are some of the most smartest predators
Crocodilians are automatons with oversized mouths.
https://youtu.be/JLy-Iiy_Zp4?si=5rYs4v63xP0QH5UF

>>5042976
what....
What in the actual.
That is completely alien behavior.
Insect robot level behavior.

>>5042569
If you seriously believe those 17th century accounts made by literal snake oil salesmen then you might just be dumber than the tortoise

>>5042976
They’re cannibals and not by mistake. I don’t think he cares whether or not he hurts his neighbour

>>5042569
Yeah, and the 17th century had a booming tortoiseshell trade. Why do you think they would write shit like that to diminish their sentience?
>yeah we are killing off entire tortoise populations in droves, but don't worry they are practically vegetables!
This is how gullible you are anon.

>>5043345
That's not the issue. It's the fact that the victim crocodile doesn't even care or react to having its foot bitten clean off and just continues walking normally as if nothing even happened. That's insect-like...
>>5043344
>If you seriously believe those 17th century accounts made by literal snake oil salesmen then you might just be dumber than the tortoise
umm...
"He disproved that vipers drink wine and could break glasses and that their venom was poisonous when ingested. He correctly observed that snake venoms were produced from the fangs, not the gallbladder, as was believed."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Redi

>>5043353
>Yeah, and the 17th century had a booming tortoiseshell trade. Why do you think they would write shit like that to diminish their sentience?
You're a moron that has absolutely zero understanding of history or anything for that matter.
Christians don't care about how big the animal's brain is or even how intelligent or visually appealing the animal is. In the Christian mind all non-human animals exist simply to serve humans because god said so.

Genesis 1:26-28

"Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%201%3A26-28&version=NIV

So Francesco Redi's scientific discoveries had absolutely zero effect upon how the average person felt about tortoises.

>>5043518
>It's the fact that the victim crocodile doesn't even care or react to having its foot bitten clean off and just continues walking normally as if nothing even happened. That's insect-like...
It does react. It moves its head to the side and opens its mouth as if trying to bite at the pain. Do you expect it to start crying?
>He disproved that vipers drink wine and could break glasses and that their venom was poisonous when ingested. He correctly observed that snake venoms were produced from the fangs, not the gallbladder, as was believed
That’s all well and good but it doesn’t change the fact that what he said about tortoises is bullshit

>>5042417 (OP)
Birds of prey also kill tortoises(at least the smaller one) all the time by skydropping them to crack their shells

>>5043532
>but it doesn’t change the fact that what he said about tortoises is bullshit
... anon...
>Do you expect it to start crying?
You have to be pretending to be stupid at this point.

>>5043518
>seething about christianity out of nowhere
Pagans hunted giant deer, mammoths, etc to extinction before jesus was even born. Humans have always had this idea:
>We can talk
>These do not
>They are our lessers

>>5043518
>all that bible talk

>>5043518
Why the fuck are you talking about christianity? Are you a bot?

>>5043556
It's the schizo

Just post a picture of a wolf when you see him and say "you're gay". Like this

>>5043518
You're gay.

>>5043518
You are a homosexual

>>5043518
Gay bash
Gay bash

>>5043543
>You have to be pretending to be stupid at this point
Yet you can’t actually say what is wrong with what I said