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Thread 938707114

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Anonymous No.938707114 >>938707178 >>938707180 >>938707386 >>938707652 >>938707680 >>938707778 >>938708043 >>938708082 >>938710078 >>938710106 >>938710665 >>938712561 >>938713063 >>938713725 >>938714171 >>938714880 >>938714965
Are you afraid that if you read Marx you'll become a communist?
Anonymous No.938707178 >>938707251 >>938707675 >>938714498
>>938707114 (OP)
Reading Marx is what made me hate communism. Can’t hate what you don’t know
Anonymous No.938707180 >>938707236
>>938707114 (OP)
I'm afraid I'll fall asleep...
Anonymous No.938707236
>>938707180
fair
Anonymous No.938707251 >>938707328 >>938707675 >>938714121
>>938707178
Prove you've read Marx. Define communism
Anonymous No.938707328 >>938707387 >>938707675
>>938707251
Ok maybe I haven't read Marx, I'm sorry for lying. I just hate what I don't understand
Anonymous No.938707386 >>938707400 >>938707470
>>938707114 (OP)
All right-wingers should read Marx, Kalergi, Locke, Luther, and Hitler. The struggle we are in is centuries old.
Anonymous No.938707387 >>938707675
>>938707328
I know anon, it's ok
Anonymous No.938707400 >>938708005
>>938707386
>one of these is not like the other
Anonymous No.938707470 >>938707488 >>938707537
>>938707386
That’s actually a good idea, help you be well rounded. Consume centerfold texts of wildly different ideologies to make yourself well rounded and know what you truly support
Anonymous No.938707475
Anonymous No.938707488 >>938708005
>>938707470
Except marxism isn't an ideology, the rest are lol
Anonymous No.938707537 >>938707556 >>938707604 >>938708005
>>938707470
>you should read the old testament AND science textbooks, that way you'll have a more rounded view of science

That's how fucking stupid you sound btw
Anonymous No.938707556
>>938707537
kek
Anonymous No.938707604 >>938707777
>>938707537
You are retarded and have no interest in being well rounded. It is clear you are a low IQ subhuman waste of being who only operates off your personal selfish emotions. The world is on fire and collapsing because people like you are now the majority. No want to learn, no want to improve, you just know everything and are perfect. Your death is greatly needed for humanity to improve
Anonymous No.938707652
>>938707114 (OP)
Nah, I've read Marx in the past and it didn't turn me communist.
Anonymous No.938707675
>>938707178
>>938707251
>>938707328
>>938707387
Why would you speak to yourself like this op?
Anonymous No.938707680 >>938707721 >>938707811
>>938707114 (OP)
I was probably marxism curious when I was around 19/20 and read the manifesto and immediately re-read Adam Smith and "The Wealth of Nations" made so much more sense that I permanently rejected communism.
Anonymous No.938707721
>>938707680
Mega based
Anonymous No.938707777 >>938707838 >>938708005
>>938707604
Ok retard, let me know when you actually learn what communism is lmao
Anonymous No.938707778 >>938709591
>>938707114 (OP)
C9mrades!
Anonymous No.938707811 >>938708005 >>938708822 >>938714154
>>938707680
Marx based his theories heavily on Adam Smith lmfao
Anonymous No.938707838
>>938707777
holy checked
Anonymous No.938707875 >>938707911 >>938707981
Reactionaries getting trashed itt lol
Anonymous No.938707898 >>938707931
Is his book free?
Anonymous No.938707911 >>938707947
>>938707875
where?
Anonymous No.938707931
>>938707898
Yeah

https://www.marxists.org/index-mobiles.htm
Anonymous No.938707947 >>938707969
>>938707911
itt

Can you read? Lmao
Anonymous No.938707969 >>938708005
>>938707947
Sure, which specific posts then?
Anonymous No.938707981 >>938708049
>>938707875
I find that left wing people tend to be hyper emotional in their policy and views causing them to be reactionary 24/7. Especially westerners who are leftists
Anonymous No.938707983
Why are anti-communists so dishonest and stupid?
Anonymous No.938708005 >>938708072 >>938713825
>>938707969
>>938707811
>>938707777
>>938707537
>>938707488
>>938707400
Just for starters. You're welcome to try to argue against any of these. But with you'll just be proven wrong
Anonymous No.938708043 >>938708078
>>938707114 (OP)
Nope
Anonymous No.938708049
>>938707981
That's nice. Your personal anecdotes are worthless btw
Anonymous No.938708072 >>938708100
>>938708005
A bunch of those are the op anon, do you consider op a reactionary?
Anonymous No.938708078
>>938708043
kek, he had a gamer moment. Do you know why he wrote that? The reason is funny as hell. Also fuck lassalle, he deserved it
Anonymous No.938708082 >>938708107
>>938707114 (OP)
Reading something about Marx's ideals has made me anti-communist. Nothing is more deplorable than following the ideology of someone who, in his miserable life, knew what work meant and who always lived at the expense of others.
Anonymous No.938708100 >>938708235
>>938708072
How could a communist be a reactionary? This should be funny
Anonymous No.938708107
>>938708082
>ideals

So you haven't read Marx, gotcha
Anonymous No.938708190
Anonymous No.938708230
Anonymous No.938708235 >>938708291
>>938708100
You tell me, you were the one linking to posts by op and calling it reactionaries getting trashed.
Anonymous No.938708267 >>938708343
Why do people who clearly know nothing about Marxism pretend to have read Marx? Where do they get this false confidence?
Anonymous No.938708291 >>938708356
>>938708235
I didn't say communists were reactionary. You're really bad at trolling btw, it's kind of cringe
Anonymous No.938708307
Anonymous No.938708343
>>938708267
Idk, a lot of the people we look to as authorities on knowledge also have a very poor understanding of marxism, so that's probably where it comes from
Anonymous No.938708356 >>938708600
>>938708291
You did by linking to op anon.
I also haven't even begun trolling you anon, so calling me a bad troll is just outing yourself having a feel.
Anonymous No.938708371
Anonymous No.938708600 >>938708678
>>938708356
...ok retard
Anonymous No.938708678
>>938708600
Hey now, I've only pointed out what you were doing, so you're calling yourself retarded right now.
Anonymous No.938708765
Anonymous No.938708822 >>938708971 >>938709879
>>938707811
maybe, but he missed the immutable facts of supply and demand.

and also man's inherent laziness and the ingrained sense of scarcity.

Adam Smith was correct in your post, because the landlords made land scarce, they could extract value from that scarcity. Disregarding whether this is good or bad, it is true and making the government or the common the owner of the scarce resource does not change the scarcity or the fact that eventually, that scarcity is used to extract something of value from others.

Marx's problem is that while his view seems to be valuable to the common weal, it fails to recognize human nature:

1 - people are mostly interested in themselves and their family
2 - they will fuck over others to advance their own needs/comforts
3 - If each receives as to their needs, not their work, they will pursue other, more desirable activities, such as napping, fucking, or lollygagging
4 - there is always someone who sees this and takes advantage of it

In other words, it is utopian at best and while an interesting thought exercise, completely unemplementable on any scale larger than maybe a few hundred people

It also stifles innovation, because why invest capital (time, money, labor, resources) to improve efficiency if I gain no benefit (net loss situation).
Anonymous No.938708971 >>938709073 >>938709817 >>938710382 >>938711327
>>938708822
Wrong again.

"...supply and demand regulate nothing but the temporary fluctuations of market prices. They will explain to you why the market price of a commodity rises above or sinks below its value, but they can never account for the value itself."
Anonymous No.938709073 >>938709228
>>938708971
You've addressed well nigh none of the criticisms of communism that anon just offered you, prove that you can think and actually address his post in its entirety.
Anonymous No.938709228 >>938709288 >>938709817 >>938710382
>>938709073
I literally just did. The first was a straight lie, the rest are strawmen. Marx writes extensively about human nature. Moreover, none of these so called "criticisms" pertain in any way to central theses presented by dialectical and historical materialism. In short, anon doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
Anonymous No.938709288 >>938709325 >>938709633
>>938709228
You literally didn't do any of that, you just went "nope communism good" with no further argument.
Anonymous No.938709325
>>938709288
Ok retard.
Anonymous No.938709369
Anonymous No.938709393 >>938709417
Life is unsatisfying.
That is no basis for believing that you are oppressed.
Deal with it.
Anonymous No.938709395
Anonymous No.938709417
>>938709393
Communism isn't about "fairness" idiot lmao
Anonymous No.938709436
Anonymous No.938709502
Anonymous No.938709521
Anonymous No.938709566
Anonymous No.938709591
>>938707778
based
Anonymous No.938709603
Anonymous No.938709633 >>938709658 >>938709730
>>938709288
>has nothing to say about being proven wrong

Fascinating, like why even bother having an opinion
Anonymous No.938709658 >>938709730
>>938709633
right? lol
Anonymous No.938709678
Anonymous No.938709730 >>938709817
>>938709633
>>938709658
Proven wrong on what and with what arguments?
Anonymous No.938709817 >>938709845
>>938709730
>>938708971
>>938709228
Anonymous No.938709836
Anonymous No.938709845 >>938709875
>>938709817
Are you assuming all of those posts are me?
Anonymous No.938709875
>>938709845
Bye retard
Anonymous No.938709879 >>938709953 >>938709979
>>938708822
These are arguments that have been around since before Marx actually, especially the part about humans being humans lol nothing you can do.
It's all bullshit that has been proven bullshit over and over again.
Anonymous No.938709953 >>938710011
>>938709879
>It's all bullshit that has been proven bullshit over and over again.
How and where?
Anonymous No.938709979 >>938710382
>>938709879
It's mostly irrelevant and has nothing to do with marxism. He even says he thinks Marxism is when then government owns things. He literally cannot prove how those characteristics of humans, even assuming they are true (which he also can't prove), would contradict a decommidified economy that Marx advocates for.
Anonymous No.938710011 >>938710027
>>938709953
You're really bad at this
Anonymous No.938710027 >>938710090
>>938710011
The feeling is mutual.
Anonymous No.938710078
>>938707114 (OP)
Anonymous No.938710090 >>938710225
>>938710027
That's nice, you're still really, really bad at rhetoric
Anonymous No.938710106
>>938707114 (OP)
Don't need to. I already read the talmud and I hated it.
Anonymous No.938710144
Anonymous No.938710168
Anonymous No.938710193
Anonymous No.938710225 >>938710271
>>938710090
That assessment is also mutual.
You rely on thought-terminating clichΓ©s a lot.
Anonymous No.938710271 >>938710328
>>938710225
You never bothered to defend your argument, I don't know what to tell you...other than you're a retard that doesn't deserve opinions.
Anonymous No.938710294
Anonymous No.938710328 >>938710382
>>938710271
>You never bothered to defend your argument
And you never spent the time to properly refute it.
Anonymous No.938710382 >>938710463
>>938710328
Ok retard. Anytime you want to renew this discussion, you can respond to any of these 3 posts:
>>938708971
>>938709228
>>938709979
Anonymous No.938710460
Anonymous No.938710463 >>938710479
>>938710382
>"But I handed you my thought-terminating clichΓ©s, why do you keep thinking man, just accept Marxism already".
Anonymous No.938710479 >>938710577
>>938710463
I am forced then to accept your concession
Anonymous No.938710509
Anonymous No.938710531
Anonymous No.938710550
Anonymous No.938710577 >>938710611
>>938710479
That's adorable.
Anonymous No.938710589
Anonymous No.938710611
>>938710577
It's not, mostly frustrating. I was hoping for more. But what should I expect from some liberal on 4chan?
Anonymous No.938710638
Anonymous No.938710655
Anonymous No.938710665
>>938707114 (OP)
Make Elon crazy by typing
https://twitter.com/?mx=1
That will prevent x from loading lulz the glowniggerbjew will lose clicksratio and precious income glowniggerswine kys
Anonymous No.938710712
Anonymous No.938710923 >>938711027
Anonymous No.938711027 >>938713859
>>938710923
>Be Mao Zedong
>Cause famine
>Eat vegetables while people starve
>Call famine bad.
Anonymous No.938711081
Capitalism is when no food
Anonymous No.938711261 >>938711361 >>938711512
Anonymous No.938711327 >>938711404
>>938708971
Your quote is absolutely wrong and exactly why Marx is wrong. The whole premise is wrong.

I suppose it does depend on one's definition of temporary though, which is a complaint I have about many capitalists, as well.

the invisible hand works on its own timeline, which may be minutes and may be days or weeks, but is often years, decades or generations. Most top-down policies ignore this.

Take housing:
1981: need full 20% dp and rates 10%+; houses $70,000

2021: 30+ years of 3-5% down payment requirements and sub 10%rates (15 years of sub 5%) houses cost $400,000

Payments in both cases roughly 35% of median income.

The lower rates and down payment requirements meant more demand bc more people could afford the homes, thus driving up the price of the commodity. it took 40 years and there was a correction, but the invisible hand said "bitch, this what home ownership in the US is worth. you can fuck around with the loan requirements all you want, but it is what it is."

2025: home prices now $500,000 and payments around 40% median hh income. will probably continue to rise a bit, but then we will get lower rates and more supply and it will come back down.

and to my original post, are you saying that in time of famine, you would not steal grain or start farming on your own for your own benefit . That if you, say, gave up 1/10 of your meager millet ration each meal in order to use your time and labor to cultivate a crop of your own and if your crop was mildly successful and yielded enough to feed 5 people decently, that you would not hoard all/most of this for yourself and family? or would you share it with the other 30,000 people in your community so that everyone including you and the layabouts gets one extra millet grain, even though you gave up 3,000 to start with?
Anonymous No.938711361 >>938711450
>>938711261
>Only these two political positions exist.
Anonymous No.938711404 >>938711908
>>938711327
Holy shit, all that just to miss the entire premise. Exchange value =/= value. Sorry you wasted your time, but feel free to try again.
>pro-tip: you're going to get caught in a loop of circular logic
Anonymous No.938711450 >>938711502
>>938711361
No? The two positions that actually exist are Marxism and liberalism (idealism)
Anonymous No.938711502 >>938711602
>>938711450
Thank you for proving my point.
Anonymous No.938711512
>>938711261
bro - china's cities didn't begin to prosper until after they gave up communism after Mao zedong died.

1 - decollecvtivization in late 70's early 80s
2 - privatization of industry in the 1990s and 2000s (still with national control, but certainly not labor ownership)
2 -
Anonymous No.938711602 >>938711694
>>938711502
Didn't, but ok
Anonymous No.938711686
Anonymous No.938711694 >>938711743
>>938711602
You did though, my point was that you think that only the extremes exist and you corroborated that.
Anonymous No.938711743 >>938711779
>>938711694
No? Liberalism encompasses a lot of ideologies, from centrism to extremism. God you're dumb
Anonymous No.938711779 >>938711794
>>938711743
You confirmed it even harder now, great job.
Anonymous No.938711794
>>938711779
Ok retard lmao
Anonymous No.938711908 >>938712000 >>938712022
>>938711404
what is your definition of temporary, as the Marx quote uses it?

My argument is that government interventions are the temporary fluctuations, but the market bears out to true value and balances value based on the balance of supply and demand.

Government (or collective) control is the cause of the temporary fluctuations (or perhaps natural disaster or other calamity).

I am not sure how this view is compatable with marxism or communism, because Marx specifically advocates for trying to manipulate this.

The theory is that if we each provide equally then we each receive equally (with the understanding that some are less capable, but often have higher needs). This would be acceptable if we each, in reality, did provide equally. However, what this does lead to is a situation where the state is actually in control, because otherwise, why would the wheat farmer grow enough wheat to feed the steel worker; why would the miner mine iron and coal and zinc when all they really want is bread and whisky (or in modern terms, why would the corn farmer make enough corn syrup to go in all the Mtn Dew that the coders drink when they could just grow enough for themselves and also plant weed and get high)
Anonymous No.938712000 >>938712553
>>938711908
Exchange value fluctuates over time due to a variety of reasons. It never settles permanently. Why are you wasting time with these asinine arguments?
Anonymous No.938712022 >>938712077 >>938712170
>>938711908
Also, government control has nothing to do with communism retard
Anonymous No.938712077 >>938712558
>>938712022
Communism always starts with centralizing the state and handing it all property, that doesn't get refuted by calling the state the people.
Anonymous No.938712131
The force is with you young skywalker but you are not a Jedi yet
Anonymous No.938712170 >>938712583
>>938712022
My point is that it inevitably does because there needs to be coordination. Communism, could, possibly, work at a small scale, but would also retard growth and quality of life, because at such a small scale, the natural resources would not be available for manufacturing and would need to be brought from elsewhere.

How does that happen? either capitalism or government control.

You know the reason everyone says "true communism society has never been tried?"

because it immediately fails and the governments have to take control.
Anonymous No.938712553 >>938712621
>>938712000
in the context of a discussion of communism, the point is that if there is no incentive to provide for others, it doesn't happen, which creates pent up demand, which then increases the value of the product/service, which then leads to that service product being being provided outside of strict communism--either by coersion/force or by profiteering.

This is inevitable. Communism seeks to avoid this but it is unavoidable.
Anonymous No.938712558 >>938712711
>>938712077
That's not communism and you could easily use Google to confirm that
Anonymous No.938712561
>>938707114 (OP)
No. I'm afraid that if I read Marx, I'll be convinced that it's okay to be a worthless sponger who can't manage money, treats his family like shit, cheats on his wife and dies destitute.
Anonymous No.938712583 >>938713200
>>938712170
Yes, it does need coordination. What the hell does that have to do with exchange value? If you don't have an argument, just be quiet
Anonymous No.938712621 >>938713200
>>938712553
There is incentive to work. Do you think workers don't get compensated under communism? Or that they're all compensated the same? If so, you're wrong.
Anonymous No.938712700
Anonymous No.938712711 >>938712737
>>938712558
I know it isn't on paper, but that is how communism acts in reality.
Anonymous No.938712737 >>938712791 >>938713200
>>938712711
No, it doesn't. That's called state capitalism.
Anonymous No.938712791 >>938712846
>>938712737
>That's called state capitalism.
Which is what happens whenever communists gain power.
Anonymous No.938712822
Anonymous No.938712846 >>938712918
>>938712791
Initially, yeah. Social democracy and then the painful and difficult task of abolishing property. It's still capitalism until then.
Anonymous No.938712918 >>938712987
>>938712846
Under what conditions would the centralized communist state abolish itself and make a classless society?
Anonymous No.938712945 >>938712979
Anonymous No.938712979 >>938713089
>>938712945
More the workers in capitalism.
Anonymous No.938712987 >>938713031
>>938712918
Global conditions. The current global hegemonies would need to have their economies decommidified. A condition that has never been historically present. What does this have to do with exchange value? Are you just conceding that point to me?
Anonymous No.938713031 >>938713073
>>938712987
>What does this have to do with exchange value? Are you just conceding that point to me?
I'm not the anon you were having that argument with.
I just jumped in to point out that all of those times it wasn't communism, it was done by communists.
Anonymous No.938713063
>>938707114 (OP)
Ive read Marx and it lead me to bel8eve that some people.complaining about antiquated systems that had not inherently attempted democracy decided it was the closest thing and failed miserably at achieving it. Democracy and capitalism is better, get over it. Stop worshipping the words of a broke and failed writer.
Anonymous No.938713073 >>938713161
>>938713031
Yeah, it's not a difficult concept to grasp, idk why some people struggle with it. You can have communists in-charge of a capitalist system.
Anonymous No.938713089 >>938713218
>>938712979
>its the deli lady's fault towel heads got blasted after 9/11
Ok retard.
Anonymous No.938713161 >>938713189
>>938713073
>You can have communists in-charge of a capitalist system.
Yeah, it's just curious how communists never end up in charge of a communist system, it's almost like they just want to change out who it is that gets to rule and live in luxury.
Anonymous No.938713189 >>938713230 >>938713238
>>938713161
It's not hard to figure out. They were dominated by global capital.
Anonymous No.938713200 >>938713250
>>938712737
>>938712621
>>938712583
I am assuming these are all the same person, so please, since we are all idiots, give us textual quotes from Marx (the topic at hand) and real life communist society examples that support your claims.

1 - where does the coordination in a communist society come from? who is doing it? do they profit from it? Source material in Marx and also a real life example please.

2 - How doe your point about variable compensation comport with "each to their abilities and each to their need" ? Where is this occuring in a true communist society? Quote Marx to explain his views on this.

3 - Where is there a "communist" society that has not begun with collectivization under government control? What property is collectively held?
Anonymous No.938713218 >>938713270
>>938713089
I don't know what you're talking about schizo.
Take your meds.
Anonymous No.938713230
>>938713189
>its the prevailing system that works fault not the system that has been left beh8nd that I wish worked
Ok...so communism sucks and doesn't work, we get it.
Anonymous No.938713238 >>938713302 >>938713580
>>938713189
>It's not hard to figure out.
True, corrupt people are attracted to communism because it affords them an easier route to become dictators.
>They were dominated by global capital.
Oh right, it's never the communists themselves that fuck up, I forgot.
Anonymous No.938713240
Anonymous No.938713250 >>938713284 >>938713292 >>938713788
>>938713200
Or you could just read Marx yourself. What a thought, huh?
Anonymous No.938713270 >>938713312
>>938713218
Try thinking a bit more before responding.
Anonymous No.938713284
>>938713250
Or you could argue your own position for once.
Anonymous No.938713292
>>938713250
> I dont know bro
We know you dont.
Anonymous No.938713302 >>938713328
>>938713238
That's right. They were undone by the capitalist global hegemony lead by the US. Very easy to see. At least you learned today
Anonymous No.938713312 >>938713344
>>938713270
Or just have a point and make it clearly like an adult.
Did that make sense?
Anonymous No.938713328 >>938713350
>>938713302
Fuck off anon, you're not dumb enough to assume that I am dumb enough to accept that.
Anonymous No.938713344 >>938713385 >>938713406
>>938713312
I made my point, you just didnt get it because youre a retard, you'll placed the blood on their hands in the hands of the workers for capital as if its the deli lady's fault I shot Arabs in Afghanistan. You're a retard.
Anonymous No.938713350 >>938713401
>>938713328
I know you're dumb enough to get mad when losing an argument
Anonymous No.938713352
Anonymous No.938713385
>>938713344
Based, OP here, also an OEF vet
Anonymous No.938713401 >>938713416
>>938713350
Oh are you prematurely celebrating your victory again?
What is that the fifth time you do that in this thread?
Anonymous No.938713406 >>938713493
>>938713344
You're analogy makes very little sense.
Just make you're point brainlet.
>I disagree Anon because
There I started it for you. Now grab your crayon and finish your thought.
Anonymous No.938713416 >>938713475
>>938713401
I just keep winning, it's that easy
Anonymous No.938713456
Anonymous No.938713475 >>938713506
>>938713416
Sure pigeon anon, that was indeed a great game of chess.
Anonymous No.938713480 >>938713535 >>938714177
capitalism is a death cult
Anonymous No.938713493 >>938713555 >>938714399
>>938713406
Nigger you claim capitalism makes the worker responsible for the blood spilled for capitalism right.
So now extrapolate that into myself going to Afghanistan and killing towel heads for fucking oil. Is it the deli lady's fault I killed sand niggers because she works in a capitalist system? No you fucking faggot. Fucking retard learn to read
Anonymous No.938713506 >>938713536
>>938713475
I am once again forced to accept your concession
Anonymous No.938713520
Anonymous No.938713535
>>938713480
Your graphic is grossly misrepresented and retarded, please try again.
Anonymous No.938713536 >>938713580
>>938713506
>He said while strutting around on the board cooing.
Anonymous No.938713543 >>938713577
Anonymous No.938713555 >>938713609 >>938713617
>>938713493
There we go, ow you explained your retarded thought.
It's wrong because capitalists force workers to participate.
Jobs aren't optional Anon.
Thank you for playing.
Anonymous No.938713577 >>938713594
>>938713543
Just get a job anon, its not a big deal.
Anonymous No.938713580 >>938713644
>>938713536
I can point to exactly where you lost:
>>938713238
You spiraled into an ad hom and got angry. Truth is, you just lost and can't cope with it.
Anonymous No.938713594 >>938713672
>>938713577
I make more money than you lol
Anonymous No.938713609 >>938713675
>>938713555
They obviously are when a capitalist system allows welfare like the US, its why its ok for you to be a neet and criticize the system, youre welcome for your freedom.
Anonymous No.938713617 >>938713675
>>938713555
trips of peak liberal retardation
Anonymous No.938713637
Anonymous No.938713644
>>938713580
>He exclaimed while knocking over pieces and spraying them with guano"
Anonymous No.938713662
He's so mad lol
Anonymous No.938713672 >>938713736
>>938713594
My uni9n package is 87/hr I take home 56/hr before taxes. With storm pay I work 6 months a year and usually net around 180-200k then take the rest of the year off if I feel, I am retiring at 50. You sure m8?
Anonymous No.938713675 >>938713724
>>938713609
They're working their hand to the bone Anon.
Hence the blood on it.
Think.

>>938713617
Trips of
>I can't understand anything abstract so I need rightoid logic to feed it to me.
Anonymous No.938713724 >>938713811
>>938713675
Oh, word, I guess I hadn't thought of blisters as capitalism...the outrage!!!
Anonymous No.938713725
>>938707114 (OP)
Worse, I'm afraid I will be able to talk to communists about communism. Some of them can tell when you are lying and try to make your life worse for it. I will stay ignorant about communism, as much as I can.
Anonymous No.938713736 >>938713814
>>938713672
>he has a union and is crying about socialism

Also I don't believe for a second you make $180k a year. Tell me your actual income
Anonymous No.938713788 >>938713908
>>938713250
Have read it - as stated in my first post, but it has been awhile, so I will accept that you are making up commuism as some construct that only you understand.

Also, even if everything you said was supported by marx quotes, you still haven't shown any real life examples of your premises in action in a real life communist society.

Oh that is right, because it has never been tried in its true form.
Anonymous No.938713811 >>938713833
>>938713724
More like you can't understand an apology so you formed a schizo one and confused yourself becauS you have red pill brain.
Anonymous No.938713814 >>938713863
>>938713736
Im not at all but communism is fucking stupid, the system we have going on is just fine by me and I dont really care what you bel8eve faggot, look up IBEw 126 Journeyman lineman rate and shit yourself about how broke you are being a wagie like me.
Anonymous No.938713825
>>938708005
But with you're wrong. >:[
Anonymous No.938713833
>>938713811
analogy*
Anonymous No.938713859 >>938713934
>>938711027
He didn't caused famine, it was an accident.
Anonymous No.938713863 >>938713914
>>938713814
Don't care honestly, I make $130k a year in banking. Truth is, vast majority of people are barely afloat because of capitalist theft
Anonymous No.938713908 >>938714563
>>938713788
Have you though? Your questions could easily be answered if you actually did
Anonymous No.938713914 >>938713964
>>938713863
Cool, what makes you think communism is the solution? You think people would ever be honest enough to not rip eachother off in any system? What're you 12?
Anonymous No.938713934
>>938713859
He moved the entire rural population into the cities and vice versa with the city folk.
Then he ordered the starlings killed, which caused the insects to boom and eat everything, resulting in the famine.
So yeah, he did cause the famine.
Anonymous No.938713964 >>938713985 >>938714024 >>938714073 >>938714635
>>938713914
I know it is because historical materialism is the best theory of history we have to date. Private property is underlying all these contradictions that are causing the human civilizations to fail over and over again.
Anonymous No.938713985 >>938713999
>>938713964
>historical materialism is the best theory of history we have to date.
Durrr...
Anonymous No.938713999 >>938714083
>>938713985
No argument?
Anonymous No.938714003
Anonymous No.938714024 >>938714065
>>938713964
>I know it is because historical materialism is the best theory of history we have to date.
Care to prove that unfounded assertion?
Anonymous No.938714045 >>938714118
Anonymous No.938714065 >>938714091 >>938714111
>>938714024
I can prove how it's superior to any other theory of history. Go ahead, name one.
Anonymous No.938714073 >>938714136
>>938713964
Great but it wasnt t the onset of agriculture, we thrived without "property" how can you claim communism is a solution to property when the answer is pre-feudal?
Anonymous No.938714083 >>938714162
>>938713999
>Look at me I'm a little gay retard who thinks dialectical materialism is reality.
That's what you sound like.
Anonymous No.938714091
>>938714065
Hunter gatherer
Anonymous No.938714111 >>938714193
>>938714065
No no, you made the assertion, back it up now.
Anonymous No.938714118
>>938714045
Go back faggot
Anonymous No.938714121 >>938714165
>>938707251
Communism is when no one has anything and new inventions and things magically get made for them because they for some reason think I’d go to work if I already had a house and food and water provided for me. Or ofc they just threaten to shoot you if you don’t work which makes it worse than capitalism by far
Anonymous No.938714136 >>938715249
>>938714073
I didn't say to regress back to a pre-agricultural society anon. If you want to understand the minutia of Marxist thought, you can read Marx yourself
Anonymous No.938714154
>>938707811
This is funny as if property tax isn’t a thing that also takes money from you for owning the earth that you actually paid for
Anonymous No.938714162 >>938714182
>>938714083
I am once again forced to accept your concession
Anonymous No.938714165 >>938714263 >>938714703 >>938714819 >>938716074
>>938714121
>Or ofc they just threaten to shoot you if you don’t work which makes it worse than capitalism by far
Capitalism basically does this with debt.
Why abstract the punishment?
Anonymous No.938714171 >>938715276
>>938707114 (OP)
The problem with communism is the same problem with capitalism. Those in control, making the rules of law, subjugate the citizens. Power always corrupts.
Anonymous No.938714177
>>938713480
a) the world population during most of the communist deaths was around 2 trillion vs >8 trillion now so even by your gross calculations, communism is more deadly.

b) now identify where all these water cleaning technologies and vaccines and medications were developed and factor in how many people benefit from them every year.

c) now compare communist countries' surplus food production vs capitalist countries' surplus food production

All that said, I agree we should be more generous.
Anonymous No.938714182
>>938714162
Like you're really here to debate in good faith.
Unless you're that much of a retard to post your genuine beliefs on fucking 4chan.
Anonymous No.938714193 >>938714345
>>938714111
I would love to. Name any other theory of history and I'll prove to you historical materialism offers a better explanation lol
Anonymous No.938714263 >>938714294
>>938714165
Or making you homeless and starving
Anonymous No.938714294 >>938714337 >>938714862
>>938714263
Or denying you healthcare.
Or letting you carry a dead fetus in your cunt and bleeding out onto the ER floor while evangelicals pray for you.
Anonymous No.938714337
>>938714294
All true, anon.
Anonymous No.938714345 >>938714429
>>938714193
You should be able to explain why you think it is the best without demanding input from me anon.
Anonymous No.938714367 >>938714596
Please present your step-by-step, well-thought-out and comprehensive plan for how you can bring about the communist utopia without the horrific consequences that have resulted from every single previous attempt.

Go on, we'll wait.

In fact, we've already been waiting more than a century for this.

Still nothin', huh?

Thought so.

/Thread
Anonymous No.938714399 >>938715303
>>938713493
>claims to support communism
>central tenet of communism is we are all in it together
>uses racial and ableist epithets in making his point
>claims that communism works because...
>refuses to take responsibility for his own actions

No one made you jon the military in the US capitalist system, as opposed to every "communist" system ever actually in existence.

Once in the military you still had the option to do something besides carry a gun

Once carrying a gun, you could have chosen any number of ways to avoid shooting people, you just were too weak to actually do them.

Which all proves the central point that communism sounds great, but when it comes down to it, people choose themselves and their own well-being over their fellow humans.
Anonymous No.938714429 >>938714537
>>938714345
I explained it was the best because it's better than others. I need other theories to communicate compare it to to make my point lol. The truth is, you don't know even a single theory of history, huh? You formed all these opinions, but you haven't bothered to do even the most basic amount of research. Sad.
Anonymous No.938714498
>>938707178
Based
Although you're still gay for reading books
Anonymous No.938714519
Anonymous No.938714537 >>938714572 >>938714625
>>938714429
>I explained it was the best because it's better than others.
Solipsism.
>I need other theories to communicate compare it to to make my point lol.
I don't believe that, you just want me to mention other systems so you can shit talk them and call communism superior with explaining it.
>The truth is, you don't know even a single theory of history, huh?
Oh bad faith, again, but you've already handed me 7 servings of that.
>You formed all these opinions, but you haven't bothered to do even the most basic amount of research. Sad.
This from the guy who refuses to explain why he thinks what he thinks.
Anonymous No.938714553
Anonymous No.938714563 >>938714620
>>938713908
bro - answer the questions. as I said, it has been a while.

However long it has been since I read Marx, you still are avoiding giving real world examples.
Anonymous No.938714572
>>938714537
and call communism superior without explaining it.*
Anonymous No.938714596 >>938715034
>>938714367
Isn't china a communism? Have you seen their cities? That's pretty much utopia imo if you ignore the poverty laced propaganda of coffin homes.
Anonymous No.938714620 >>938715066
>>938714563
real world examples aren't communism though and capitalism forced the communists to act like that anyway, so there.
Anonymous No.938714625 >>938714715
>>938714537
Ok, once you decide which theory of history you want me to compare it to, let me know. In the meantime, stay mad I guess lol
Anonymous No.938714635 >>938714691
>>938713964
also history:

>I want what you have
>I am bigger
>I take what you have
Anonymous No.938714662
Anonymous No.938714691 >>938715246
>>938714635
>The concept of property rights has nothing to do with this

You sure? Lol
Anonymous No.938714703 >>938715079
>>938714165
I can chose to be homeless and not work if I want to. Under communism you just die
Anonymous No.938714715 >>938714748
>>938714625
Yeah, laying the onus onto me is super convenient for you, then you don't have to prove your own assertions and you get to blame me for it.
You fail to argue anything, but that is my fault is your perpetual position.
Anonymous No.938714748 >>938714859 >>938715983
>>938714715
I mean, it is your move. I'm staring at the board waiting, I can recommend a move for you if you need it ;)
Anonymous No.938714819 >>938715079
>>938714165
debt is optional

It also creates a multiplier effect when used correctly.

Poor debt management is a scourge and I support increased regulation of debt. However, this increased regulation would necessarily decrease access to debt, especially in lower income/wealth households. Just one of the many tradeoffs of life
Anonymous No.938714859 >>938714884 >>938715983
>>938714748
You made an assertion, I asked you to substantiate it and now you are telling me that you can't.
I accept your concession.
Anonymous No.938714862 >>938715079
>>938714294
Maybe live a healthy life and don’t fuck men you don’t want a kid with. Pretty simple concept. I haven’t been to a hospital since I was born and we have free healthcare. I spend thousands a year paying for other people to use a system I’ve never used I’d rather keep my money
Anonymous No.938714880
>>938707114 (OP)
you mean,become a retard? I'm already a retard
Anonymous No.938714884
>>938714859
Ok, bye retard lol
Anonymous No.938714913
Anonymous No.938714958
Anonymous No.938714965
>>938707114 (OP)
I read Mein Kampf and dropped it halfway through because Hitler just sounded like a whiny bitch blaming the rest of the world for all of his problems and setbacks so I just assumed that attitude carried over with communism and never bothered with it.
Anonymous No.938715000
Anonymous No.938715034 >>938715339
>>938714596
no - China abandoned communism after Mao died.

As I stated earlier, they de-collectivized the agriculture in the late 70s-80s and then allowed for (highly controlled) privatization of industry in the 90s and 00s

China was abjectly poor prior to these reforms. All the cities have grown up in the past 30 years/ All of their prosperity has come since they adopted a more capitalist economy.
Anonymous No.938715062 >>938715361
Anonymous No.938715066 >>938715130
>>938714620
because communism is a fairy tale which is believed by people who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.
Anonymous No.938715079 >>938715358
>>938714703
You don't choose to die your forced to survive.
If you really believe ewha you just typed right now go wonder deep into the woods, lie down, and just accept it.

>>938714819
Debt isn't option it's a central mechanism of contemporary finance.
You're 1,000 years behind the curve with that one.

>>938714862
Congratulations on your anecdotal experience basement virgin.
Anonymous No.938715090
Anonymous No.938715123
Anonymous No.938715130 >>938715407
>>938715066
Exactly, which is what I was parodying in reply to you.
Anonymous No.938715174
Anonymous No.938715238
Anonymous No.938715246
>>938714691
of course property rights is the main reason that capitalist societies are more successful.

the main reason Mexico is so poor in relation to canada and US is because they have a long history of:
>nationalizing their industry and resources
>allowing strong men to take away the property

I think we are both pro-capitalism, but maybe my snarky comment in the previous post threw you off.
Anonymous No.938715249
>>938714136
I have and it doesn't apply to global economies, the ideas of Marx are antiquated as I said before. Sorry about the delay, Ai was outside throwing a ball to my dog with my son in our yard on the 65 acres of land I own because I purchased it with capitalist dollars
Anonymous No.938715276
>>938714171
110% this, human fallacy will always be the plague of humanity.
Anonymous No.938715303 >>938715444
>>938714399
I literally never said i support communism you spastic retard, read again.
Anonymous No.938715332
Anonymous No.938715339
>>938715034
>another world power abandoned a bad idea
Huh at that huh?
Anonymous No.938715358 >>938715382
>>938715079
as to the debt - you are a liar.

Again you just can't control yourself and need to blame everyone else.

Here is a simple plan to not use debt:

Buy less
Buy cheaper
Work more
Save

repeat

Of course, as I said, debt is a good tool, but only if used responsibly.
Anonymous No.938715361
>>938715062
Source on this obvious garbage propagandist news bite
Anonymous No.938715363
Anonymous No.938715379
Anonymous No.938715382 >>938715416 >>938715527
>>938715358
We're talking about global finance Anon not personal finance.
Anonymous No.938715403
Anonymous No.938715407
>>938715130
I think the main protagonist of this thread has pushed the absurdity beyond recognition.
Anonymous No.938715416 >>938715428 >>938715459
>>938715382
Communism doesn't work on a global scale, even marx admitted to this.
Anonymous No.938715421 >>938715431 >>938716171 >>938716266 >>938716286
Anonymous No.938715428
>>938715416
pffffttttttttt hahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha HAHAHAHAHAH what a retard
Anonymous No.938715431 >>938715470
>>938715421
>plebbit
Tl;dr Fuck off back to your hugbox.
Anonymous No.938715444 >>938715483
>>938715303
dear god, what have you been going on about all this time then?
Anonymous No.938715452
Anonymous No.938715459
>>938715416
That's not what we're talking about Anon.
Try again.
Anonymous No.938715470 >>938715541 >>938715606
>>938715431
Did you read it or just get triggered?
Anonymous No.938715483
>>938715444
I havnt? I posted like 3 times in this thread, pay attention to your conversations.
Anonymous No.938715507
Anonymous No.938715527 >>938715649
>>938715382
My apologies then, as I failed to see how national debt personally enslaves me to the same point that a totalitarian (communist) state requiring me to work or get shot does.
Anonymous No.938715541 >>938715610 >>938716951
>>938715470
I read it and who cares? Placating that Grey lines arent allowed to exist between political ideology is retarded. Why can't a democratic society be a republic and use socialist norms to appeal to their people while being capitalist, it seems to be a popular thing these days. Why is it just black and white for you folks?
Anonymous No.938715551 >>938715661
Anonymous No.938715606
>>938715470
>homes that dont include utilities or plumbing, decent roads or bridges, no access to health care regardless of income
Yeah...China numba won
Anonymous No.938715610 >>938715777
>>938715541
Because of the contradictions of capitalism... It's why liberal democracies become fascist
Anonymous No.938715649 >>938716074
>>938715527
I'm going to explain this to a five year old.
>The companies in America, they make money.
>BIG money.
>Government, want money.
>Government like doing stuff with money.
>Government borrows money from companies and wealthy owners.
>IOUs are created.
>These called bonds.
>Money is created from debt.
Instead of the government owning the means of production, it borrows from it.
Anonymous No.938715651
Anonymous No.938715661 >>938715698
>>938715551
How? I love celebrating Halloween and hate juneteenth. Traditionalist is alright.
Anonymous No.938715682
Anonymous No.938715698 >>938715803
>>938715661
Yes, this is clearly what Marx was talking about lol
Anonymous No.938715722 >>938715833
Anonymous No.938715745
Anonymous No.938715773
Anonymous No.938715777 >>938715857
>>938715610
Right but youre claiming capitalism is the cause of all facism when historically faism developed from aristocracy or monarchy, not democracies.
Anonymous No.938715790 >>938715864
Anonymous No.938715803
>>938715698
Listen to dumb shit, say dumb shit amirite?
Anonymous No.938715833
>>938715722
>that wasnt real communism
Neither is this, cry about it.
Anonymous No.938715857 >>938715884 >>938715917
>>938715777
That's actually wrong. Fascism arose distinctly from liberalism. Don't believe me? Go ahead and open Mussolini's Doctrine of Fascism. It reads like any enlightenment era philosophy.
Anonymous No.938715864
>>938715790
>in our communist paradise
Why didnt the CHAZ zones work out?
Anonymous No.938715883
Anonymous No.938715884 >>938715907
>>938715857
>there is literally no Grey area facism belongs exclusively to mussolini
Haha ok then.
Anonymous No.938715907 >>938716029
>>938715884
Ok, you can go back to the original image that proves it. We're just going in circles
Anonymous No.938715917 >>938715953
>>938715857
>Thinks the European enlightenment was 19th liberalism.
American education.
Anonymous No.938715953 >>938715975
>>938715917
No? 19th century liberalism stems from 18th century liberalism lol
Anonymous No.938715975 >>938716014
>>938715953
>Ideas that stem from their predecessor are all epistemologically alike.
Anonymous No.938715983 >>938716065
>>938714748
>>938714859
Just for both of you, the materialist theory of history is not necessarily in opposition to other theories such as:
Great Man
Environmental
Linear/cyclical
Nation State
Etc

Most of them are able to be layered one onto the other to create a tapestry, so to speak.

To think that one is "more correct" than the others is to miss the point completely. They all are correct to some extent and all have failing, as well.

Of course linear and cyclical are often believes to be in direct opposition to each other, but most serious histoians realize that neither are adequate and that if you think of the cycle as a wave rather than a circle, then they are harmonious.

Simpletons try to fit one theory as a catch all for making sense of history. The most pernicious one is the Great Man theory. of course, there are leaders, but they don't come out of nowhere, often is environmental issues (famine/natural disaster/climate change) that create the circumstances for their rise, but sometimes it is materialist.

Actually, materialist and environmental overlap quite a great deal. When materials become scarce due to environmental circumstances, it often causes great human upheavals.

Of course all of this is just describing human history. Natural history is simply linear/cyclical
Anonymous No.938716014 >>938716066
>>938715975
I mean, that's what "stems from" implies. Either way, it's all liberalism so who cares?
Anonymous No.938716029 >>938716171
>>938715907
>the origional.image that proves it
But m8? I just called you an idiot about your beliefs, this hasn't been an ongoing conversation. There are more than 2 people in this thread ar-tard.
Anonymous No.938716065 >>938716289
>>938715983
I actually agree with you, but historical materialism still posseses the most explanatory power, followed by environmental
Anonymous No.938716066 >>938716087
>>938716014
21st century liberalism is not 19th century liberalism.
Anonymous No.938716074 >>938716260 >>938716360
>>938715649
and how is this worse than
Government puts gun to my head to make sure I work at the shitty job they assigned me to?

as the original post implied:
>>938714165
Anonymous No.938716087 >>938716260
>>938716066
Yep, but they have the same themes and origins in a way that makes them comparable to fascism
Anonymous No.938716171 >>938716242
>>938716029
See
>>938715421
You're welcome :)
Anonymous No.938716242 >>938716266
>>938716171
See what?
Anonymous No.938716260 >>938716286 >>938716646
>>938716074
You're already enslaved midwit.
Yet here you are dependent on money and participating in capitalism while claiming agency over it.

>>938716087
No because you're conflating progress for context.
People in the 21st century do not live the same way people in the 19th century did.
Start there
Anonymous No.938716266
>>938716242
>>938715421
Anonymous No.938716286 >>938716564
>>938716260
Here you go anon
>>938715421
Anonymous No.938716289 >>938716364 >>938716410
>>938716065
I think it is impossible to separate the two.I don't think you get the scarcity complex that seems to be innate in most humans without the environmental imprinting of 100,000 years. I think this scarcity complex is what drives the materialist actions.

but yes, on the most surface level, materialist is the best explainer.

I forgot why this whole theory of history argument, came up though.
Anonymous No.938716360
>>938716074
Its not, commies are inhumane retards and think forced labor with the pretty feeling of community as in gemeinschaft und gesellschaft means humans eill.inherantly uphold social laws which has been proven wrong so many fucking times in history its retarded to believe otherwise. Hence them being retards.
Anonymous No.938716364 >>938716492
>>938716289
I agree, they compliment each other quite well. I'm just saying if we were able to put this into a regression, historical materialism would have variables of greater magnitude.
Anonymous No.938716410
>>938716289
Faggots over here talking to himself as if someone wants to hear "intellectual" discussions from a shoebox theorist. Aka samefag.
Anonymous No.938716492
>>938716364
>quite well
Why yes I'd love a spot of tea gov'nah
Anonymous No.938716564 >>938716738
>>938716286
Several problems with that.
>Critiquing fascism using a postmodern aesthetics doesn't make it postmodern, it just incorporates itself into critical theory.
>The democratic victory of fascist leaders in the 20th century, does not critically examine parallels of fascist rhetoric that exists in the 21st century.
>Fascism as it is currently defined in scholarly nomenclature, incorporates a political movement that existed in the 20th century. Emphasizing nationalism, ethnic purity, and a dictatorial leader.
Thank you for making your none point, the door is over there.
Anonymous No.938716646 >>938716715
>>938716260
OK

but everyone is enslavex then no matter what system you live in

In a hunter gatherer tribe of 35, you are enslaved by your constant need for nourishment and shelter and your labor to produce it

In a subsistance agricultural economy without money, you are enslaved by your need for food and shelter and the ability of your labor to produce it.

In a fuedal society, you are enslaved by your need for food and shelter and the lord (govt)

In a communist society, you are enslaved by your need for food and shelter and the govt

The difference is that in none of these other systems are you allowed to accumulate wealth for yourself. The wealth accumulation is what allows you to free yourself from the worry of not having enough food or shelter. I am not saying it is perfect, it is just more perfect than everything else. I would rather be a slave to the man but have the ability to work harder for my own benefit and leverage personal debt to improve my life status than be forced to work in a rice paddy or be shot.
Anonymous No.938716715 >>938716951 >>938717541
>>938716646
Oh, so now there's nuance all of the sudden?
Here's a brain twister, why does economic ideology exist in the first place when contemporary systems of economic power ignore them all anyway and emphasize the market over everything else?
Anonymous No.938716738 >>938716862
>>938716564
I fail to see the relevance of all three of those arguments. Can you clarify how these explicitly refute the central thesis presented by Huisken's demonstration?
Anonymous No.938716862 >>938717084
>>938716738
No because the merit of your cross analysis is not metaphysically true in the first place.
If dialectics determined political or economic outcomes, when why do post-structuralist narratives exist?
If Huisken uses postmodernity as an aesthetic to legitimize democratic institutions as fascist governments, then why do they emphasize the participants to participate?
Or does participation itself shape the function of the social institution?
If that's the case, and people want fascism, it emerges.
Democratically or not.
Anonymous No.938716951 >>938717018
>>938716715
What I want to know is why it took some pretentious bullshit to make this point when it was already made here>>938715541
Stop samefgging, page 7 and counting.
Anonymous No.938717018
>>938716951
I'm sorry you can't understand the argument.
That's where your intellect ends and is why you believe in the dumb shit you do.
Anonymous No.938717036 >>938717058 >>938717060
ITT: OP doesn't realize old fags know how to use sage and he's in here debating with himself to try and prove its relevant when nobody gives a fuck about communism except redit fags and dumbass zoomers. Page 8 and counting
Anonymous No.938717058 >>938717092 >>938717128
>>938717036
>It's all one person.
I accept your concession schizo.
Anonymous No.938717060
>>938717036
Anonymous No.938717084
>>938716862
>If dialectics determined political or economic outcomes, when why do post-structuralist narratives exist?
Petty-bourgeois influences in academia
>If Huisken uses postmodernity as an aesthetic to legitimize democratic institutions as fascist governments, then why do they emphasize the participants to participate?
How does Huisken use post-modernity as an aesthetic to legitimize democratic institutions as fascist governments? Are you saying the aesthetic similarities are irrelevant?
Anonymous No.938717092 >>938717182
>>938717058
It only takes 4 unique IPs to stop and thread from 404, but after 300 posts it doesn't matter.
Anonymous No.938717128
>>938717058
Proof?
Anonymous No.938717182
>>938717092
Its called doomscrolling and some of us do it often, the end pages sometimes have gems, communism threads are always there though.
Anonymous No.938717541 >>938717612
>>938716715
because everyone really understands that capitalism is the only way to increasing wealth other than stealing (imperialist mercantilism).

Those that choose not to participate in open markets (or openish) then must rely on warfare, which has its own costs that detract from the gains.

The US has been successful for the past 150 years mostly because it has been isolated as far as wars go - ie not on us soil. It has kept the homefront wars at bay mostly through exporting the wars elsewhere.

Communism, in practice must be implemented against the general free will of the people so results in internal wars (russian purges; maoist cultural revolution; pol pot's cambodian cleanse) that drastically reduce national productivity and distract from wealth building.

Again, the US wealth grew once the civll war was decided and then the US took (stole) the land (resources) from the natives.

Economic ideology exists for one faction to "other" the opposing faction. Communism as a theory had capitalism as an opposing theory, but it was imperialist fuedalism in both china and russia where it first was used to cleave the populus. Mexico briefly flirted with communism as an ideology but immediately abandoned it after nationalizing the oil production and railways (stealing them form US interests) and instead just subjected their population to generational poverty as opposed to opportunity to create wealth.

The US sort of fell into capitalism as a result of being too large and unpopulated to properly regulate, even though mercantilism and semi feudal slavery were the starting points. Basically not having a pre-existing government (royal) apparatus to maintain allowed the US government to not need to have an official economic ideology and capitalism is the natural state until it grows too big to be controlled (enter the progressive trust busters; WW2 for correctives)
Anonymous No.938717612 >>938717703
>>938717541
Anonymous No.938717685 >>938717710
>ITT: OP still talks to himself about communism as if anyone is listening on page 9
Hahahhahahahaha faggit. Go back.
Anonymous No.938717703 >>938717731
>>938717612
yes - this is true
Anonymous No.938717710 >>938717735
>>938717685
bro you're legit retarded
Anonymous No.938717731 >>938717902
>>938717703
kind of contradicts what you said?
Anonymous No.938717735 >>938717758
>>938717710
Page 10...adios nigger.
Anonymous No.938717758
>>938717735
bye
Anonymous No.938717902 >>938718033
>>938717731
no

supports what I said.

In a true capitalist, free market society, this is called "creative destruction" and as the old industries die, new ones would come about or the old ones would pivot.

However, as the money creates a power imbalance, the old industries create moats (tariffs) and then steal (war),

Which is why there needs to be regulation.
Anonymous No.938718033
>>938717902
In that context, makes more sense. Of course the capitalist class has no material interest to regulate itself.