Yeah, but it's called savory and the word has existed as long the english language has
The only people who call it umami are fags

>>21398230 (OP)
My balls in your mouth is a flavor.

>what does umami taste like?
>soy sauce, cheese, ketchup, mushrooms, smoked fish, breast milk
>but those taste nothing like each other
>doesn't matter they're all the same taste
Umami is a myth. It's actually just savory.

>>21398230 (OP)
umami so fat, she puts bread on her butter.

>>21398288
What does salt taste like?
>soy sauce, cheese, ketchup, mushrooms, smoked fish
>All these different foods taste nothing alike
>doesn't matter theyre the same taste

Salty is a myth. It's actually just savory.

>>21398412
Welcome to the thread, umami schizo anon. Ketchup and mushrooms aren't salty. Your post doesn't make any sense.

>>21398460
Your post doesn't make any sense.

>>21398562
Of course. Everyone knows Heinz ketchup is salty not sweet. I think what you're doing, umami anon, is engaging in the kind of bad faith argument you constantly accuse others of doing. You posted the back of the sugar free Heinz that's sweetened with stevia instead of sugar. Is that a good faith or bad faith argument?

>>21398586
Just curious what sugar has to do with something being salty? I didn't even notice it was the sugar free version. Go ahead and post the non sugary one. You seemingly missed out on my point which is that ketchup is salty.

His initial argument is flawed logic that I was pointing out. Try your best to stay on subject cherry picker anon. Pointing out that mushrooms and ketchup are not salty instead of addressing my actual argument is, infact, not good faith argumentation. What youre doing is very childish. Get with it.

>>21398241
>>21398288
trvke

Last time I engage in this cocksucking ass psychopathic ritual post ass (You) farm thread. If you take something savory, and you put umami/MSG on it, it tastes different. It doesn't taste STRONGER it tastes different. So yes they're different you dumbfuck jaguar bait. Eat my shit and don't forget to sprinkle some Accent on it you flip flop wearing caterpillar victim.

>>21398621
Beautiful. Thanks. :)

>>21398614
Is there a difference between saying that something is sugary vs saying that it is a dessert food?

One is describing the taste of a food, while the other is describing the quantity of sugar within a food. A dessert does not need to be sweet necessarily, but a sugary food must have sugar.

>>21398621
>mushrooms are savory because of the MSG in them
>add more msg
>"It doesn't taste STRONGER it tastes different."
Is umamicuck okay? Did all the MSG burn holes in his brain?

>>21398627
A dessert does not necessarily need to be SUGARY* sorry

>>21398605
You know exactly what you're doing, schizo umami anon, and everyone can see right through you. I don't know why you think you're some kind of master troll unless you're a young man who isn't very familiar with internet forum culture. You get your cheeks clapped in every umami thread you make because anons can see exactly what you're doing. Next you're going to insult me while reddit spacing and declare you won.

>>21398630
Not me, bud. I don't use msg. I use natural sources for my dishes. It's more fun and challenging, and the result is almost always better.

>>21398634
Calm down.

Keep coping

Reddit obsessed umamilet.

We are here to discuss the intracacies of umami.

Contribute to the discussion in a mature way or leave.

Your crying is not wanted here.

>>21398642
>we
Who is we, umamicuck? It's also funny how anons constantly bait you into doing what they want you to do. You get accused of reddit spacing so you double down and reddit space everything you type. Btw, "let" as a dimunitive suffix isn't spelled the way you spell it.

>>21398230 (OP)
why do we need this thread up constantly? serious question.

>>21398241
Wrong.
Savory refers to a broad range of flavours that are not sweet - including salty, bitter, and umami flavours. This is how everybody uses the word savory except for a handful of autists here who decided they're too cool to use a Japanese word so they had to retroactively change what the word savory means.
Umami is more specific than savory. Umami flavors are savory, but not all savory foods are umami.

>>21398669
If that's the case then why did you describe drumstick ice cream cones as savory in November of 2023?

>>21398230 (OP)
I can't possibly understand what discussion this thread might have that hasn't already been discussed in the last several of these threads that have gone on for 300+ posts. Are you all seriously so bored that you sit here day in and day out having the same argument over and over again about a silly little japanese word? Talk about fucking mindbroken jesus christ.

>>21398664
Because umamicuck desperately wants to be an oldfag troll despite being in his teens/early 20s.

>>21398671
I don't understand what you mean by that. I don't lurk in these threads every day like you do.

umami specifically refers to the savory from glutamates

>>21398674
>>21398673
I promise to you I am not the one making this thread. I just like spreading the truth about umami.

>>21398663
Please stay on topic. I've posed an argument in a previous post. Try and address it.

>>21398671
That wasn't me. I don't understand why you're so hung up about a 2 year old post. That's really weirdly obsessive.

>>21398680
>try and address it
You mean "try to address it". Lol, you're a fucking third world ESL. That explains everything. You probably didn't realize you were posting the sugar free Heinz because you've never seen or tasted Heinz ketchup and posted the first image result you found. Every post you make just exposes you more.

>>21398669
Exactly. New things and foreign things, especially J-word things are big scary for autists.

You understand umami perfectly. Well done.

>>21398671
Attempting and failing to look at my post history is peak reddit. You should try to contibute to the discussion, yeah?

You know how astronomers started giving celestial objects names from non-European cultures to be more inclusive? "Umami" is the same thing.

>>21398694
Lol. You are so desperate to avoid any and all conversation about umami. Bad faith through and through. Really sad, actually. Obsessive melty status: nuclear.

Try and address it is totally fine. It's a common informal way to phrase it. I think that you not knowing that is actually more esl. Teehee.

such a stupid thread and I hate all of you dumb fucking schizos who keep engaging in low-tier-threads like these that end up pushing quality content to le archives

>>21398698
>You know how astronomers started giving celestial objects names from non-European cultures to be more inclusive?
I thought we were naming stars shit like XÆ12-V2
>"Umami" is the same thing.
Yeah it's so dumb to force a loanword that's even worse than the original word. The real definition of umami is "delicious" or "pleasant tasting." Literally anything can be umami. Only some things can be savory. It's such a disgusting rape of two different languages all because some pseuds think they're too unique and special to use English words.

>>21398709
Oh nooo not the 7th mcdonalds thread in one day! What are we gonna do without the 12th taco bell thread of the day? Does anyone know if coffee is good for you?

>>21398711
>I thought we were naming stars shit like XÆ12-V2
They started using exotic names for many objects. Messier 87 was discovered hundreds of years ago and they recently named it "Powehi" after some Hawaiian shit.
Remember the buzz over pic related? It was the first interstellar object found passing through our Solar System. They named it ʻOumuamua(the apostrophe is part of the name lol) again after some Hawaiian faggotry

>>21398711
Bad faith argument.

Try and address my argument next time.

>>21398711
Umami means foods high in glutamate, insonite, guanylate. It is not the translation of the literal word. It is the given name to the fifth primary taste after glutamate receptors were found on the tongue.

Think about how people called sugary foods desserts(or whatever categorization it may have been) before they knew that sugar was a primary taste and that sugar created the sweet taste. After we learned sugar = sweet/dessert we can say a food is sugary, which is more specific than simply calling a sugary food a dessert. Not all desserts have sugar in them.
The difficulty comes around when we start understanding how primary tastes interact with flavor and aromas in a modulatory way rather than as a simple additional flavor or taste. Sweet,sour,bitter,salty, and umami all have a taste, but they also modify secondary flavors in their own way. Interestingly primary tastes can actually cancel each other out like with sweet and salty or sweet and sour.

I think we should apply this nuanced understanding of how tastes and flavor work to the fifth primary taste as well.

Maybe glutamatey would work better for you?

>>21398742
Nobody has ever said the word sugary outside of a fringe sitcom made in 1983.

>>21398742
>Sweet,sour,bitter,salty, and umami
It's just hilarious seeing you guys type this unironically with a straight face. Umami will only catch on with cosmopolitan faggots

>>21398750
Bad faith, try again.

>>21398746
Does the word sugary exist? Is it well understood or accepted that sugary means a food that contains a high level of sugar?

>>21398761
Did you also call it bad faith when MSM("men who have sex with men") didn't catch on and people still call them homosexuals? Get over it, common sense prevails

>>21398772
This is an intellectually lazy and very bad faith argument. Try again.

Common sense would be to treat the relatively recently discovered fifth primary taste exactly like we treat all the other primary tastes. It is not special or different.

>>21398772
>brings up homosexuals on a food board
nice try groomer

>>21398783
Do you flip out over tomatoes being considered culinary vegetables even though they're fruits?
>>21398785
How about "birthing person" instead of woman then?

>>21398792
what?

>>21398792
I do not understand how or why your post relates to our discussion about umami. Please stay on topic and address my argument.

>>21398798
Bad faith argument. Please address my argument.

This is what umami winning looks like.

>>21398840
Not an argument.

Meme posting means you have nothing to say.

>>21398843
keep seething oohmamatard

>>21398718
>ʻOumuamua
Oh so every field of interest gets to have their own umami. Now I don't feel so bad

>>21398847
Not an argument.

Your name calling proves you have nothing to say.

It is over for you.

Enjoy Onimusha, child.

Bump

>>21398669
Name 3 foods that are savory but don't have umami.

>>21399431
That retard already said this, and is going to keep saying every food that doesn't have sugar is savory. This includes bitter foods like 100% dark chocolate, or something spicy like capsaicin extract, or something salty like pretzels, or something sour like vinegar. The guy you're replying to has 0 nuance to his thought. I don't know if he's bad faith or if he's an ESL autist that takes dictionaries at face value. He will keep citing dictionaries that describe savory as "describing foods that are not sweet" while ignoring all the context and nuance the word has that is more than just "not sweet."

>>21399447
Can you explain that nuance?

>>21399431
Cabbage, broccoli, and green beans.

bump

>>21399468
The real meaning behind savory is more than just "doesn't have sugar."
You don't eat a bitter food like 100% dark chocolate and say "mmm savory!"
Savory foods are savory because that's the word we've ascribed to the feeling of eating high glutamate foods.

>>21399690
What about >>21399471 foods that are not glutamate rich? Surely herbs like savory are savory, right?

>>21399431
A water cracker with herbs is a good example of something with a savory flavour with little or no umami to it. The point isn't that savory foods are often umami, the point is that not nearly all umami foods are savory.

So in response, here's a question if you are still so stuck on umami and savory being the same thing. Are you saying that a cheesecake, a peanut butter and jam sandwich, a pecan pie or buttermilk pancakes with bacon and maple syrup are savory or are you saying they are not umami?

>>21399690
Yes, the meaning behind savory is that it refers to foods made delicious with the use of herbs and spices. If herbs and spices aren't a major aspect of the flavour of something, it is not referred to as savory. At least not by people who understand English and how it's used.

>>21399891
Pic related

>>21399897
Also, the OED definition of what savory means in English.

who cares what you think OP

suck dick

>>21399898
Follwed by the definition of umami. Note how although both words can sometimes refer to the same thing, they have distinctly different meanings. Most baseballs are white. Not nearly everything that is white is a baseball.

>>21399779
broccoli, cabbage and green beans are not savory. they're mostly flavorless with a slight bitterness, and theyre only as salty as you season them. ive never heard anyone call cabbage, green beans or broccoli savory.
>>21399897
>>21399891
>ESL autist misses the point entirely only to cite a second dictionary, of which he couldn't even bring himself to open up the correct section
Words exist independently of dictionary entries.

>>21400096
>Words exist independently of dictionary entries.

Not when they're used impoperly. That's why dictionaries exist. I will not have my language ruined by ESL idiots who refuse to learn it properly. Savory and umami are distinctly different. Anyone claiming otherwise is fundamentally and objectively wrong. The funny thing is that there are many English words that are close to the meaning of umami. Meaty, nutty, rich, luscious are all not quite the same but are definitely good synonyms. To get hung up on fucking savory of all words which even in the best case only accounts for maybe a third or so of all foods that get called umami is honestly just pathetic

>>21398288
>>21398412
I think these posts (and a lot of discussion around this topic) just ignore linguistics. Yes, umami is very similar to "savory", but not every language has that word. Portuguese for example only has one word for "savory" and "salty". Japanese also doesn't have a word for "savory", which is why they came up with the term "umami", which means "pillar flavor", something that is core to a dish and that we associate with savoriness. Its useful as an universal term for gastronomic discussion, because not everyone speaks or is discussing these topics in english.

>>21398230 (OP)
Yeah it's japanese for savory

>>21400096
You are just a tastelet if you really think that, or you've never had quality vege in your entire life.
Your subjective analysis does not change the fact that they are categorically savory foods.

>>21400137
>Its useful as an universal term for gastronomic discussion, because not everyone speaks or is discussing these topics in english.
Someone should invent a "lingua franca," or a universal language that everyone on the internet can use to communicate with each other. Since various languages clearly lack the words to describe various concepts, I propose that American English be the world's lingua franca.

>>21400150
It turns out that people talk about things outside of the internet, or in spaces within the internet where English isn't the most popular language

>>21400137
>Yes, umami is very similar to "savory",

That's not true though, which is the whole point. Many savory things are also umami. But far more umami things are not savory at all. Ice cream is not savory.

>>21400157
>It turns out that people talk about things outside of the internet, or in spaces within the internet where English isn't the most popular language
And your point is what?
I'd like to point out that you posted a message in English, instead of another language.

>>21400145
>Your subjective analysis does not change the fact that they are categorically savory foods.

You are objectively using the word wrong if you think unseasoned broccoli is savory. It specifically means foods flavored with herbs and spices which are not sweet. If it's not flavored with herbs and spices it is by definition not savory.

>>21398695
Japlets lost the war and can't reproduce, nobody cares what they think

>>21400157
That's no excuse for them to mangle and misuse English because they are too lazy to learn the proper usage of the words they are saying.

>>21400189
It specifically means foods flavored with herbs and spices which are not sweet. If it's not flavored with herbs and spices it is by definition not savory.

>>21400157
Why do nons obsess about White people so much? Is it because they can't invent anything?

>>21400185
>Ice cream is not savory.
Then why did you call ice cream savory in November of 2023?

>>21400185
Ice cream isn’t umami, child. Enjoy Onondaga.

>>21400201
White millennial hipsters invented stealing unnecessary loan words from other languages in an attempt to appear more cultured.

>>21400205
you slants eat seaweed
debate over
collect your L at the front desk.

>>21400199
Yeah I dropped the u by laziness there Pay attention though >>21399898
Savory and savoury are two different yet related words.

>>21400199
Did you even read your own image? You are so lost and confused. You are looking at the definition for (S. hortensis) and not at the definition for the "savory" we use to describe food. No wonder you struggle with understand the true meaning of "savory." Take some more english classes, pal.

>>21400210
That moment when you realise some people can only comprehend time in chunks of less than 50 years. And they probably have high school diplomas.

>>21400205
Ice cream is absolutely umami. I guess you don't understand any words.

>>21400217
You're mad because I struck a nerve.

>>21400216

>>21400214
>Savory and savoury are two different yet related words.
You are hardcore exposing yourself as ESL.

>>21400219
Ice cream is a sweet, not a savory. Enjoy Mexican prison, child.

>>21400221
>You're mad because I struck a nerve.
Why would I be mad? I accused you of being incapable of comprehending time beyond a 50 year span. Are you gaslighting me?

>>21400231
Read your "savory" image 5 more times, ESL-anon.

>>21400238
>Read your "savory" image 5 more times, ESL-anon.
That's not how gaslighting works.
Anyhow, I read it 5 more times, and it still looks exactly the same. How about that, ya fucking retard?

>>21400197
Its not mangling english, its just a loan word. Do you also get irrationally frustrated at the use of "tsunami"?

>Umami-cuck is estrogenically seething and accusing everyone of gaslighting
Kek do you guys think it's a female or someone that's consumed too much soy?

>>21400240
Hint: We don't use nouns as adjectives. The "savory" you screenshotted isn't the definition for the word we use to describe the taste of foods.

>>21400235
Yes. One is an herb. The other is a word used to descride foods flavored with herbs, such as savory. I don't know why that confused you.

>>21400236
Exactly. Ice cream is not savory at all. Because umami and savory are completely different. Please stop using my language if you refuse to learn what it's words mean. Savory has a very specific definition, you are using it far more broadly than any English speaker ever would.

Umami schizo anon is an ESL turd worlder confirmed. Guranteed umami doesn't exist in his native people and his own people would laugh at him and call him stupid if he tried explain the concept.

>>21400250
>Yes. One is an herb. The other is a word used to descride foods flavored with herbs, such as savory. I don't know why that confused you.
Your reading comprehension is horrible. The "savoury" entry in your dictionary doesn't even mention herbs. You are mixing up too entirely different concepts. Even if you were looking at the correct entry in your dictionary you would still have no idea what the word means. You shouldve learned American English instead of the inferior UK English, you immigrant.

>>21400250
>Ice cream is umami
Perhaps ice cream means something different in your language than it does in English. Do you know what ice cream is in the West?

>>21400263
I know English isn't your first language which is why I also posted the Antonyms, Synonyms and Prepositions section. >>21399897 Note that the OED points out it's foods that are salty and spicy versus sweet. Spicy is where the herbs and spices comes in. A plain unseasoned steak for example would never be referred to as savoury. Once you put salt and pepper on it, it becomes savoury.

And again, the point is not that a lot of savory foods happen to be umami. It's that a huge number of foods which are very umami like a cheesecake are not in any way savoury. So to say savoury and umami are the same thing is just plain wrong. To spend months not understanding that is pathetic.

Learn my language or stop using it.

>>21400285
Ice cream means the same thing for a British Canadian than it does most people. What planet are you on where ice cream is savoury?

>>21400242
I havent even posted since >>21400145 you obsessed schizophrenic.

>>21400294
If you aren't baiting, you are seriously stupid. You don't know what a noun is, and you're unable to find the correct words in a dictionary (which is something that 5 year old native speakers are able to do).

>>21400294
You've already admitted to being an ESL, you dumb fuck, You've been doing this umami shitposting for so many years you can't even keep your lies straight anymore.

>>21400189
Wrong. It is especially savory if you season it with salt, and sear it in a pan. Doing all those things does not introduce any umami, but creates a savort dish.

>we went from "savory = anything salty or spicy"
>to "savory = anything without sugar"
>to "savory = exclusively the things that have mint in it"
The discourse here gets worse with every post and more ESLs coming in with every post.

>>21400310
Wrong. The Mallard reaction from searing creates umami aminos.

>>21400305
How is that meant to contradict anything I said?

>>21400309
Other than a tiny bit of French, English is the only language I know and I am obsessed with it's usage and etymology. I have no idea who you are confusing me with.

>>21400310
With salt, yes. With no salt, no.

>>21400317
>mallard
Esl confirmed

>>21400320
You're the ESL umamicuck who has been making these insane /x/ tier umami threads since 2022.

>>21400320
>Other than a tiny bit of French, English is the only language I know and I am obsessed with it's usage and etymology. I have no idea who you are confusing me with.
I can tell you're ESL because you don't know the difference between savory and savoury. You seem to default to "savoury" as your preferred spelling which would imply you're British, but you didn't get triggered by American English being called the superior English. You are someone who is not fluent in English, who cannot differentiate between American English and UK English.

>>21400317
Umami means glutamate RICH foods not a teeny little bit. Think sugary, but for glutamate. Would you call an unripe peach sugary? No, but it still have a little sugar in it.

>>21400320
>How is that meant to contradict anything I said?
Savoriness has nothing to do with the "savory" plant from the mint family. You have an entry for "savoury" in your dictionary that is entirely unrelated to the "savory" you posted. Your dictionary's "savoury" has nothing to do with herbs or your dictionary's "savory". If you were EFL you would understand this instantly. It shouldn't take 3 posts for you to realize your mistake.

>>21398742
>Remains unrefuted.

>>21400329
Never made a thread, sorry lol. I don't give a fuck about any of this other than savoury being mangled by some idiot who doesn't understand it.

>>21400341
I get where you're going with that at least.
Can you find any definition of savoury that does not mention herbs or spices? More importantly, what is your reaction to the definition given for umami >>21399902 and how does that relate to savoury?

>>21400335
Umami means whatever the fuck I want it to mean, umamicuck. Ice cream? Umami.
Raw potato? Umami. Coca-Cola? Umami.
Brazil nuts? Umami. Eggo Waffles? Umami.
Rice? Umami. Get the picture, ESL umamicuck? "Get the picture" is an English idiom btw.

>>21400363
No it doesn't, and that isn't an argument. It jusy sounds like you're having a little temper tantrum at this point. Take a chill pill. You're going insane over a word. Lmao.

>>21400372
Yes, it does. Yes, it is. No, I am not. No, I will not, and no, I am not. Enjoy third world prison, ESL umamicuck.

>>21400381
Okay. Continue screaming and crying whatever you want. It doesn't change reality or how absolutely wrong you are about umami.

Your melty is quite entertaining tho. :)

>>21400362
>Can you find any definition of savoury that does not mention herbs or spices?
Yes. Your own definition you posted here (>>21399898 Towards the bottom. Savoury.) doesn't mention herbs or spices, but rather salt and spiciness. I dont agree with that definition though.
I think accurately describing savory would be tautological. Just as a dictionary can define Red as "Reddish in color or having parts that are reddish in color." Savory is most accurately described tautologically. Savory is NOT salty. Savory is NOT spicy. Savory is NOT bitter. Savory is best described as savory.
>More importantly, what is your reaction to the definition given for umami >>21399902 # and how does that relate to savoury?
Many dictionaries directly translate Umami to "Savory" and I agree that Umami and Savory are the same thing. Umami is an unnecessary loan word and I will not use it.

>>21400391
I will, child. It does, child. There is no such thing as a "melty", child. Enjoy third world prison, ESL child.

>>21400411
So there's no specific word to describe an ingredient/dish that has high levels of glutamate? There's a word that describes the quantity of every other primary taste for every other one. Salty = a lot of salt ,sugary = a lot of sugar ,bitter = a lot of bitterness, sour/acidic = a lot of acid.

Umami = a lot of glutamate.

I suppose bitterness is sort of an exception, but there are also many many compounds that produce a bitter taste unlike the other primary tastes.

>>21400428
Your inability to understand how English works is hilarious, ESL umamicuck.

>>21400428
>So there's no specific word to describe an ingredient/dish that has high levels of glutamate?
There is. It's called savory. Which is why many dictionaries choose to translate "umami" to "savory."

>>21400441
So savory just means savory, BUT it also means food rich in glutamates? There are foods/dishes we would all call savory that have no glutamate in them.

>>21400411
>I don't agree with the Oxford English Dictionary

Cool story ESL friend.

>>21400512
>trust MY authority, but not your authority

Kek.

umami is just a synonym for savory

>>21400196
TRVKE

>>21400532
It was already decided that savory does not mean not sweet. Your definition and source are flawed and incorrect.

>>21400532
nooo tranime sister it means something different sugoi desu!!!!

Uhhhh savory sisters? Why does this dictionary say something different???

>>21400537
>It was already decided that savory does not mean not sweet.
Run that through your translator again, ESL umamicuck.

>>21400547
>why is English so complicated
You constantly expose yourself as a non-native English speaker.

>>21400551
The meltdown/entertainment continues on stronger than ever. I see your temper tantrum is reaching other threads. Lmao. You're so angry and easily manipulated. It is truly funny.

>>21400560
No, child, it does not. No, child, there is no tantrum. No, child, I am not. The only funny thing is you making the same umami thread for three years. It shows how sad and pathetic your third world life is. Enjoy brown people prison, child.

here’s wiktionary, i like the explanation of the japanese meaning. note the synonyms listed.

>>21400579
>no u
>crying
>coping
>board wide melty

Yep that's exactly what I wanted from you. You have been my entertainment for the past few days. Thanks lil man!
You lost the umami argument btw, badly.

>>21400586
This is exactly what I've been trying to explain the whole time. Umami means the presence of glutamate/the specific taste of foods with high levels of glutamate.

It is more specific than savory. Savory is not a primary taste.

>>21400591
It is though, because umami is another word for savoriness.

>>21400599
There are savory foods that do not have high glutamate or any glutamates, which is why savory is a category, while umami refers to specifically foods high in glutamate.

It's like saying desserts vs. sugary. Not all desserts have sugar, but all sugary foods have sugar in them.

>>21400605
All desserts have sugar in them

>>21400618
Have you ever had beans on sugar-free toast before?

>>21400618
No they dont, and that doesn't include sugar free things.

>>21400618
Wait. No. You misunderstand. Foods can have sugar in them, but not be sugary. An unripe peach for example has sugar, but is not sugary.

>>21400588
No, child, that is not what you wanted. No, child, I have not been. No, child, I did not. Umami still means savory in English and no amount of your ESL posts will change that. Enjoy Brazilian prison, child.
>You lost the umami argument btw, badly.
What is the "umami argument", ESL child?

>>21400657
Wa wa wa
Cry me a river you big fat baby sore loser.

Umami won. Whatever your weird and idiotic gibberish is lost.
You gave up and started having your melty a long time ago. Isn't it obvious that I've been egging you on? That you are my little comedian and (you)cow? Huh, you must be a lot stupider than I thought. Lol!

>>21400691
Your English becomes worse as you become more passionate, child.
>You lost the umami argument btw, badly.
What is the "umami argument", ESL child?
I know you won't answer that.

>>21400706
Cope harder my sweet little (you)cow. You're in complete denial on top of the extreme schizophrenia and weirdly reddit behavior you have exhibited.

The umami argument is whether or not umami is a real thing and what it actually means. Is it different than savory? All have been answered and umami is a thing and it is different than savory. These are established facts.
You really are just here because you're an obsessed and angry little guy huh?
It is truly funny. I have a feeling I'm going to have a lot more fun with you. :)

>>21398671
>>21398675
>>21398684
The Jew fears the /ck/ auditor

>>21400731
Schizophrenic and obsessed reddit behavior. Only one of those posts is mine btw.
He was trying to say I was wrong about everything because he incorrectly thought I called an ice cream cone umami 2 years ago or something.

Yes yes I found his posts admitting that he was an angry little manchild in a romantic love hate relationship with umami 3 years ago. I told him the truth about umami and he has been obsessed with me ever since.

>>21399889
>>21399471
>Green veg and crackers taste like steak
Oooookay retard

>>21400445
>So savory just means savory
Yes. This is the casual definition of savory. When you're using savory in a casual conversation and don't want to bore the normies with bla bla bla bla glutamates. It's the word we used to describe glutamate rich foods before we were aware of glutamate receptors, and it's the word we'll keep using after we're aware of glutamate receptors. You've either experienced the savory sensation or you haven't. Just like the color red. You wouldn't be able to sufficiently describe red to a blind man. You've either seen red or you havent.
>BUT it also means food rich in glutamates
This is also true. Red can also be defined scientifically with certain waves of lights hitting certain receptors, just like savory can be defined by certain chemical hitting certain taste receptors. Both are true at once. Red was still red before we knew about the physics of light, and red is still red after we learned the physics of light. Merriam Webster even supports defining savory by glutamates here>>21400532

>>21400750
Blah blah didn't read

>>21400755
Huh?

>>21398671
This seriously isn't cool.

>>21400771
Yes you did. You're only fooling yourself. Lmfao.

>>21400771
>blah blah can't read English
ftfy

>>21400769
This is the best argument against umami being different than savory. Thanks for not acting like a little child.

This is what I get from what you're saying. Normies simply dont care so it isn't worth having a specific word that aligns with the way we treat every other primary taste.
Referencing dictionaries is not very convincing for me because I don't really care what normies think and dictionaries are not really reliable sources considering how every dictionary has a different meaning, and they get updated all the time. Some includes glutamate some do not, some call savory a category of foods lacking sweetness.

This whole debate was actually settled a long time ago by food scientists. After scientists discovered the glutamate receptors on the tongue umami became a widely accepted term for food scientists. Why? My guess is that there is utility in specifying whether or not something is actually high in glutamates, or is simply salty/spicy/herbaceous/not sweet. Savory is an imprecise and nebulous term, which is why I think that there is/should be a distinct between the two.

>>21400769
One more thing I will add is that your color analogy is not quite right. Savory is more like a secondary or tertiary color, while umami is a primary color.

>>21400793
>Referencing dictionaries is not very convincing for me because I don't really care what normies think and dictionaries are not really reliable sources considering how every dictionary has a different meaning, and they get updated all the time. Some includes glutamate some do not, some call savory a category of foods lacking sweetness.

I feel the same way about science books. I think those motherfuckers are lying to us about almost everything in order to oppress the people and prevent a worldwide uprising. Hideo Kojima has similar ideas about language to you, most poignantly expressed in Metal Gear Solid 5. Language makes reality real. That's why casting magic is called spells. Spells as in spelling as in language shaping reality.

>>21400793
>Some includes glutamate some do not, some call savory a category of foods lacking sweetness.
>simply salty/spicy/herbaceous/not sweet
All the salty/spicy references in dictionaries makes me wonder if "savory" means something else in other regions. In all my life "savory" is exclusively used for high glutamate foods. Someone calling salty or spicy foods "savory" would be really strange to hear.

>>21400821
Exactly. That's partly why it's fun to talk about this weird umami thing haha. Extremely based knower of spells. I've understood that for a while now. Something that smart people do is keep old dictionaries. Like 50-100 year old ones and it lets them reference old meanings to words and understand how they have changed and maybe even figure out why they've changed. Really interesting stuff.

it’s always painfully obvious when the umamifag posts.

>>21400849
That would make perfect sense. I assume it is something very similar in Japan, where their cuisine revolves so heavily around the use of glutamates and ribonucleotides.

>>21400881
Why are you even here? You're purposefully choosing to engage in a thread that is clearly making you very upset. Low IQ behavior.

>>21400881
This ain't your thread pal. Umamichad stays dabbing on all you euro centrics. Take the umami ytboi.

>>21400521
Yes. You are some random internet idiot with a hot take that savoury should mean something completely different than the actual use of the word and you think that your opinion outweighs the most respected and recognized dictionary of English that exists. You don't know English.

Go ahead and post the dictionaries and their definitions where they "directly translate umami to savory".

>>21400849
>wonder if "savory" means something else in other regions. In all my life "savory" is exclusively used for high glutamate foods.

Where do you live?

Also, the thing isn't that most savoury foods also happen to be heavy in umami that makes sense, because typically meats are one of the main things that you flavour with herbs and spices.

The important thing is that savoury is a very specific meaning, while umami is a much broader meaning. So while yes, a seasoned chicken breast is both savoury and umami, a slice of pecan pie is equally umami but not savoury in any way. That's what the savoury = umami retards still fail to understand.

>>21401185
Pecan pie is sweet. Seasoned cooked chicken is savory. Pecan pie isn’t listed in the entree section of any menu just like seasoned cooked chicken isn’t listed in the dessert section of any menu. Your rigid black and white thinking and strict adherence to literal definitions without thinking is a strong sign of autism btw.

>>21401185
We went over this already. NOBODY'S definition of savory has anything to do with "herbs and spices." You were looking at the wrong dictionary entry. You were looking at the dictionary entry for Savory (NOUN) a plant belonging to the mint family. Savory the plant has nothing to do with savory the taste.

>>21398230 (OP)
short answer no
long answer also no

>>21398761
>what is Sweet

umami=savory

>>21403295
Prove it.

>>21403114
Sugary=dessert

>>21401834
Both definitions are in the screenshot, I left them both there on purpose. Either way you can plainly see that the definition for savoury as in the flavour profile is totally different from umami. Also you can see here >>21399897 in a book of synonym, antonyms and prepositions from the 70's it clearly descibes how the word savoury is used and what it means.

>>21400310
Yes, if you put salt on broccoli it makes it savoury, since that's the definition of the word. Broccoli without any salt is not savoury. A steak with no salt or pepper is not savoury. If you think it is, you are wrong. It only becomes savoury after being seasoned. It is umami the whole time.

>>21401795
Exactly, because pecan pie isn't savoury. But it is absolutely and undeniably umami. That's the whole point. There are a shit ton of sweet umami foods. By definition there are no sweet savoury foods. The words are not the same.>>21401795

>>21403527
So salt makes umami?

>>21403535
No. Salt can make something savoury by the definition of the word. Presence of salt has no effect on whether something is umami or not, they are both primary tastes.

>>21398750
It's in the Oxford English Dictionary, it's official. That's how English has always worked.

>>21398742
For those who don't like the broad term umami, meaty, nutty, creamy, rich and luscious are all decent synonyms.

>>21403527
Pecan pie is not umami. Pecan pie is not savory. Pecan pie is sweet.

>>21403821
Nuts have relatively high glutamate.

>>21403821
Pecan pie is absolutely, unequivocally unami. That's the whole point. Nuts are one of the major umami foods, anything made with nuts is by default umami at it's core. A peanut butter sandwich or a pecan pie are perfect examples and absolutely umami. That is precisely why savory is and always will be a terrible attempt to find a native English word that replaces umami. Savoury only covers foods which are salty or spicy rather than sweet. Umami is far, FAR broader than that.

Again. Meaty, nutty, rich, creamy and luscious are all not perfect but are far better native English words that are a decent synonym for umami.

>>21398230 (OP)
No. It's a taste, not a flavor. Know the difference.

>>21403939
Why do you spell savory differently in the same post?

>>21404184
Because I'm typing on a phone, posting to 4chan and too lazy to really bother to check spelling as I go. I assume anyone intelligent enough to understand the point can gloss over whether it's the herb or the taste profile I am referring to. This bullshit false debate has been dragged out here so many times that it's hard to care about details too much because the disingenuous 'umami means savoury' troll just says the same thing regardless

>>21404184
The guy you're replying to has confirmed he is ESL multiple times over. He can't differentiate between American English and UK English because he is fluent in neither. He can't read a dictionary and when someone tries to correct him on his mistakes he doubles down on his stupidity.

>>21404251
>the herb or the taste profile
Holy shit, you are legitimately fucking retarded. I have explained this to you 10 times already. When you're an ESL and an EFL is giving you advice, you should fucking listen.
Savory and savoury are the same word. One is American spelling and the other is UK spelling. You are totally incapable of understanding any nuance that exists within the English language and you should not be debating anything regarding the English language.

>>21404257
LOL. I bet he's a "British" man. Is he the fuckman who has been ritual posting these retarded umami flame war threads for like five years?

>>21404267
No I think he's a new guy. He is the one that posted dictionary entries for a totally irrelevant word and keeps trying to define "savory" as having anything to do with herbs or spices (WHICH NOT A SINGLE PERSON ON EARTH DEFINES SAVORY THIS WAY). This guy is either severely retarded or baiting.

>>21404261
>Savory and savoury are the same word.

American spelling is of no interest to me. I included both words in the photo I took simply for comparison. 'Savory' typically refers to the herb, 'savoury' typically refers to the flavour profile. That Americans choose to spell them the same is of zero interest to me.

Anyway the important point is that neither definition is anywhere close to the definition of unami and saying either savory or savoury is a decent synonym is utterly ridiculous.

>>21404272
And yes, savoury refers to herbs and spices. Actually pay attention to the definition >>21399898 "salty and spicy" spicy comes from spices. Also you continually and steadfastly ignore the entry in a book on synonyms where the whole point is to illustrate the different nuaces of words >>21399897
So explain to me how Funk and Wagnal's Synonyms, Antonyms and Prepositions is less accurate than your internet troll hot take.

>>21405924
spicy =/= spices
You can add a lot of a spice to something and have it not be spicy.
You can have a pepper that's spicy without adding slices.
Herbs aren't mentioned anywhere at all unless youre looking at the wrong dictionary entry.
NOBODY, absolutely NOBODY, defines savoury by "seasoned with herbs and spices"
You do not understand the English language on a basic level. You are not equipped to have these kinds of conversations.

>>21398230 (OP)
umami is just savoury and sour combined

>>21406114
>spicy =/= spices
>You can add a lot of a spice to something and have it not be spicy.

Obviously, that's usually called savoury. You go on and on that no dictionary specifically mentions herbs yet you continually ignore that any definition for savoury only encompasses a small portion of the foods to which umami is related. The issue has never been that a lot of savoury foods also have a strong umami component, it's that there is a vast array of foods which are umami but not savoury at all. No matter how hard you harp on me including both words in my photo it doesn't change that central important point.

Also let's remember that you or one of your ilk already decladred that they disagreed with the OED definitions. So expecting your opinion to mean anything in light of that is laughable.

Savoury and umami not the same thing. That's what this is all about. You can stamp your feet all you like but that is the reality of the words as they are used in English.

>>21407327
You are retarded. You looked at the dictionary entry for THE WRONG WORD, and now your mind is permanently fucked. I don't know how someone can be so retarded and mindfucked like this. You are severely mentally retarded or you're baiting. I find it hard to believe someone can really be this stupid.

>>21407327
Based umamichad calmly explains facts and logic.

>>21407667
Cringe and seething savorycel has another temper tantrum.

>>21407667
>You are retarded. You looked at the dictionary entry for THE WRONG WORD, and

I never did that. You are conflating my laziness to recorrect the US auto-fill to change savory to savoury every time. Other than in passing as a point of reference I am always talking about the flavour profile of savoury. That's what this is all about. If I knew posting an image with more than one word definition would confound you so much I wouldn't have, that's my bad for giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Regardless, the definitions for savoury abd umami are both there clearly. If you actually pay attention to both you will see they describe very different things. Yes many savoury foods are umami, that has never been the point in question. The point is that savoury is a very specific word and a huge array of heavily umami foods are not savoury in any way.

What's most notable about the months long campaign you have waged trying to say the two words are synonymous is that as has been pointed out many times there are a number of words in English that do come close. Meaty, nutty, creamy, rich and luscious are all not perfect but far closer to what umami means than what the word savoury is used for. That you cling to savoury and mention it over and over and over and over month after month, thread after thread is what convinces me you are at least not very familiar with English as a language if you are human, but far more likely all these responses are bot replies by an algorithm that can't learn.

Either way, you are wrong. Savoury is and always will be, a severly lacking attempt to find an English word you can use in place of umami which triggers you for whatever reason.

>>21408958
Spitting facts.

>>21409490
Yes. Facts are what matter. The actual meanings of words and the way they are used is what this is about. Some idiot both doesn't understand what savoury means and is equally clueless as to what umami means so he keeps insisting they are the same when factually they are barely related and mean distinctly different things.

>>21409523
Saying no or you are wrong because I say you are wrong is not convincing. >>21408958 is convincing and you have proven his point once again.

>>21408958
What does a chocolate cheesecake have to do with umami?

>>21409872
Everything.

>>21409534
That's why I have been explaining in detail, you just refuse to pay attention. Look, definitions are right there and very simple.
>>21399897
>>21399898
Savoury refers to foods which have a salty or spicy flavour profile and are not sweet. Dead simple.

>>21399902
Umami is the flavour of glutamates that you find in protein rich foods like nuts, meats, cheeses, mushrooms etc

All you are saying over and over again when you insist that savoury and umami are the same thing is that your cognitive abilities are so poor that you literally cannot imagine a food which is protien rich but sweet instead of being salty or sweet. Despite many, many examples being posted. You then say utterly retarded shit like this >>21409872 because you're too stupid to understand that cheesecake for example is heavily umami in flavour. You literally don't understand the basis of this because your brain is so incredibly limited.

>>21411328
No.

>>21411337
Well that's the English language and what it's words mean. If you want to remain willfully ignorant because what is simple to virtually everyone else confuses you, that's not my problem.

>>21411343
Umami.

>>21411370
Go ahead and explain what you are attempting to imply there so I can mock your pathetic ignorance even more

>>21411403
Simply umami.

>>21411328
I see you dropped "cooked with herbs and spices" from your definition of savory. I wonder why.

>>21411981
Because the "person" I was conversing with seemed confused by that, because as anyone with English as their primary language would understand, the line between herbs and spices is fuzzy and not really important. He seemed to get hung up on that so I simplified it as much as possible so as not to confuse him. I'm only really replying to these out of vague curiosity at this point. I can't figure out if it's a bot set to reply every time the situation comes up, or an Indian or Oriental of some sort trying to troll but who doesn't know English, or if it's some American retard triggered that the word got adopted but just wants to be pissy and upset about it rather than learn. I don't really care what's up but the clinging to ignorance in the face of knowledge is fascinating in a way.

indian thread, all Whites ignore

Umami is the king of the savory kingdom.

Everything goes according to keikaku

>>21398621
Dont blame cocksucking for this, this is definitely a womanly gaslighting bitch behavior

New to this thread. Umami seems to have won. That is all.

>>21400237
>gaslighting
Imagine being this new.

Funny how the gooks of Nippon are the only people in the entire world to have ever come up with the notion of there being more than five flavors. Makes you think DOESNT IT.

>>21413130
Its called savory in english, you brain dead fucking moron

>>21413137
Yeah the whole point is that its slightly different from savory because niggers are saying shit like "oh this cant being described as just savory, its umami" shut the fuck up then you dumbass worthless gorilla nigger. You just refuted your own point then. Why would i use some dumbass word from incel island if i have a perfectly good word that describes the same thing. Fucking nigger

>>21413130
Umami is the fifth primary taste. Kek?

>>21413137
Worthless pathetic troll. Stop using my language if you're going to be so fucking stupid and stubborn to know what it's words mean.

>>21413150
It's not even slightly different, it's completely different. To imply otherwise is objectively wrong and only highlights you don't understand English and are too stupid to learn. I know umami triggers your precious little feelings but that's no one's problem but yours.

>>21411328
Cheesecake is sweet. It isn't umami.

>>21413846
It's absolutely umami. Cheese is umami. A cake made out of cheese is intrinsically umami. Like nuts are umami. You really think everything made with nuts is savoury!?!??? Seriously. What the fuck is wrong with you? You have the definitions of how the words are used in English. They clearly refer to different things. Do you just really like being ignorant?

>>21413891
Change is really scary for some people.

>>21413891
We're speaking English, sweety. Our words have English defintions.

>>21413903
What about the karaokes? Or sake?

>>21414004
I don't know. Are those umami food or something?

>>21414041
Sake is lmfao! It is Japanese word commonly used in english! Or are you so silly thst you say rice wine and sing a long lounge instead of the japanese words? Lol

>>21414041
Do you say taco and burrito? How about chow mein? Curry? Strudel???? Just wondering if these scary foreign words are things you say.

>>21414069
>>21414071
Those words all have accepted English defintions no one argues about. Umami doesn't have an accepted definition which is why people argue about it. There aren't massive threads spanning years about the defintions of taco, burrtios, and sake like there is this umami wars thread. If you look up in the thread you'll see anons arguing about English language defintions of umami.
Like this one>>21400532

>>21414148
No one argues about it, and it is widely accepted and used term in food science, my sweet little rebel.

>wh*tes can't taste umami
No wonder why your food is shit.

>>21414223
>is widely accepted and used term in food science
So no one outside of food chemistry autists uses the term?
>no one argues about it
The three years of these umami agument threads proves you wrong. This very thread proves you wrong.

>>21412006
>Because the "person" I was conversing with seemed confused by that
No. You dropped it because not a single dictionary would support this definition of the word. You read the wrong dictionary entry, got confused, and you can't admit to being an ESL that can't work out a dictionary. You can't differentiate between UK and American English. Stop LARPing as one of us. It's so fucking silly.

>>21413150
Based

>>21414232
Sample size one type bro. Sick. Everyone who knows the truth and understands what is right in this world uses the word umami.

This board is infested with rabid Japanophiles that will never use any japanese word even if it makes them look idiotic.

>>21414004
>>21414071
>Using names of dishes that are unique to another culture
>Using foreign words to describe a sensation that exists in all people regardless of culture, and replacing the existing words and concepts we already have for these sensations every culture experiences
I don't know if you're smart enough to tell, but these are not the same things.

>>21414433
We do not have a word for umami. We merely had a suggestion. A category of foods. Nothing as specific as umami.

>>21414229
brown hands typed this

Wam bam thank you mam. That settles that. We have a winner and that is umami!

>>21413903
Yeah and this is a word now adopted into English. >>21399902
That's how our language works. I don't know what shit hole you're from but you clearly don't know English.

>>21414433

English adopts words and phrases when it's useful. That's why it's so obvious you're either a bunch of bots or foreigners.

>>21398230 (OP)
Kinda on topic, kinda not, can I mix fish sauce into scrambled eggs or does the heat fry off the benefits of the fish sauce and am I better off just using it like ketchup?

>>21398230 (OP)
No

>>21416716
Looks like we have another ignorant to laugh at!

>>21398230 (OP)
No, umami is not an actual flavor, you dense cunt.

>>21416726
Try msg mixed with a little disodium guanylate and disodium inosinate. It tastes like real meaty meat.
It is both a flavor and a flavor modulator like salt. This is a fact.

I just don't get it. If unami just means savoury, then why aren't all umami things savoury? Gosh golly this hard to wrap my head around!

>>21417827
Once you understand English, it's usage and history of adopting words it's very simple. Sadly so many around here cling to ignorance like a security blanket