Thread 21428794

I think I’m tired of this thread, that’s for sure

>>21428796
Do you have umami fatigue perhaps?

>>21428815
We have fatigue from ESL trolls asking if a defined English word means what it's definition specifies because they're too stupid and willfully ignorant to ever learn.

>>21428842
>we
Go back.
And take your jap words with you. This is an English language site.

>>21428794 (OP)
umamu wassana sayosong

again?

>>21428945
You are not familiar with English if you are getting this upset about words being adopted into the language. The word umami is now part of English because it describes well something that we didn't have a singular good word for. Yoir continued ad nauseam tsunami of bitching about this month after month is a clear faux pas, showing the glitch in your brain that makes you not understand how English actually works. Stamp your feet and cry like a baby all you want. The point at which a word is included with it's definition in the Oxford English Dictionary, your childish opinion over whether it should or shouldn't be part of the language os utterly meaningless.

And yes, before you drag your other meaningless complaint through the mud again, the reason both savoury and umami have separate entries with separate definitions is that they are different words that have different meanings. No amountof your trolling will ever change that.

>>21428999
MSG is literally a savory seasoning. It makes things savory. Umami means savory

>>21429685
MSG is a type of salt that can be made to make a food savoury. That does not mean everything with glutamate flavours is savoury. You've been shown over and over that the two words have distinct and different definitions. You've been shown that the definition of savoury is far more specific than you try to claim it is. You have been shown that there are multitudes of foods which are fundamentally and undeniably umami but to savoury in any way.

So seriously, what the fuck is your agenda? Why do you refuse to accept English as it is properly used? Why do you steadfastly ignore every other potential synonym even when they are better and drone on about "savory" month after month? What purpose do (you) really have here trying to mangle my language and distort and muddy the meanings of it's words?

>>21429872
Except when you look up umami, MSG is specifically mentioned to describe the flavor, and MSG is inherently savory

>>21428999
It's a retarded meme that only anime watching incel faggots use. It has no actual meaning. You just like being a pretentious annoying little shit head.

>>21429872
Why did you post cake? Is that supposed to be savory or something? Lol

>>21429904
He thinks cheesecake is some point of truth for the existance of umami even though cheesecake is sweet and savory (umami)

>>21429880
>the average anti umami argument.

LOL

These threads have made me HATE umami. I never cared before but now I'm a radical anti-umamite.

>>21429872
MSG is an analogue of sodium, not salt. umami and savory are two entirely different flavor profiles. have you tried dashi stock? it does not taste savory. it has and umami flavor. it is a distinctly separate thing all together.

>>21430007
Whys that? Team umami actually has real arguments and intelligence. They're at least attempting a good faith argument in favor of umami. Team savory is 9 idiotic non argument posts to 1 reasonable post.

The angrier and more seethe/cope rich side is obviously the loser. Also the guy making these threads is anti umami.
I have a very strong suspicion that these threads are made by the same guy that would constantly post all those anti rice cooker threads.

>>21428794 (OP)
>savory :l
>umami :o

>>21430007
these threads made me LOVE umami, the fact that a simple word has mindbroken somebody so hard is fucking hilarious. umamibros won and the perpetual existence of this seethe thread is proof of that.

>>21430013
>Real arguments
Nigga just Google "is umami Japanese for savory". The answers yes

>>21430010
Dashi is savory. That's the whole point. It's rich because it's savory and salty. The fish and kombu are both savory and salty and combine to make deliciousness.

>>21430024
I did and here's the wikipedia result
>Umami (/uːˈmɑːmi/ from Japanese: うま味 Japanese pronunciation: [ɯmami]), or savoriness, is one of the five basic tastes.[1] It is characteristic of broths and cooked meats.[2][3][4][5]:35–36

>>21430033
Here's what Ajinomoto's website says.
>Umami, which is also known as monosodium glutamate is one of the basic five tastes including sweet, sour, salty, and bitter. Umami means “delicious savory taste” in Japanese, and its taste is often described as the meaty, savory deliciousness that deepens flavor.

>>21430023
Yep. It's hilarious. Same thing happened with rice cookers. LOL

>>21430033
>>21430036
OH MY GOD IT MEANS SAVORY

>>21430030
have you had it? it tastes totally different than what something savory typically would. the skipjack tuna flakes and kombu seaweed combine to create a very unique flavor rarely found.

>>21430040
Umami describes foods rich in glutamate and other umami compounds and the sensation/taste of those foods. It's like sugary.

Savory is a category of foods. A food can be savory without being umami.

Jesus christ people why does this recurring obvious bait post always keep getting you dumb cunts every single time

>>21430044
See >>21430033
>>21430036

>>21430043
Of course. It tastes exactly what something savory tastes like. Here's something from Matcha.com
>Umami 101: What is it, exactly?
>Umami (pronounced oo-mah-mee) is a Japanese word that roughly translates to “pleasant savory taste.” It was first identified in 1908 by a Japanese chemist named Kikunae Ikeda, who was fascinated by the rich, mouthwatering flavor of dashi—a broth made from seaweed. After researching what made it taste so delicious, Ikeda discovered that glutamate, an amino acid, was the main compound responsible for this distinct taste. He named it “umami,” which he described as a satisfying, savory depth that enhances and rounds out other flavors.

>In technical terms, umami is the taste sensation that occurs when we eat foods rich in glutamate, inosinate, or guanylate. But in simpler terms? It’s that extra something that makes food taste complex, savory, and incredibly satisfying. Think about that mouth-coating, almost meaty flavor you get from a well-aged cheese or a perfectly ripe tomato. That’s umami.

>How to describe the taste of umami
>So, what does umami actually taste like? This is where things get interesting, because unlike salty or sweet, umami doesn’t have a taste we can pinpoint with just one word. It’s savory, deep, and kind of brothy. Imagine the mouthfeel of warm, comforting foods—almost like a hug in taste form. It’s that sensation you get from foods that taste “rounded” or “full,” giving a richness that makes you want to keep eating.

>Some people say umami is like the “protein flavor” because it’s common in protein-rich foods. But even plant-based foods, like tomatoes or seaweed, have umami. When you eat something with strong umami, you might feel like the flavors linger in your mouth a little longer, coating your tongue with a savory, almost buttery sensation. And the best part? Umami makes other flavors taste better, giving you a layered, balanced experience in every bite (or sip).

>>21430055
have you used the PTC strips before to see if you genetically have an expanded taste pallet?

>>21430054
I know. Those are called npc definitions. Intelligent thought produces a more meaningful, useful and real distinction between the two.

>>21430066
No it doesnt

>>21430066
You're going to disregard the Japanese defintions because they don't suit your narrative that savory is completely distinct from umami? Ajinomoto says umami is described as savory. You're even going to go as far as saying the Japanese company that invented MSG is wrong? You're contradicting Ikeda, the Japanese chemist who discovered umami and started the Ajinomoto company. No one who is serious about umami makes the argument that it has nothing to do with savory. It's impossible to find any article or scholarly paper about umami which doesn't use the word savory to describe umami.

>>21430080
To be expected from the npc. Umami is the sensation/taste from glutamate and other umami compounds - the fifth primary taste.

Umami also describes foods rich in specifically the umami compounds.


If that is too much for you to understand I got bad news for you, bud.

>>21430085
But then why do the Japanese describe umami as savory? Why does the Japanese chemist who discovered it describe it as savory? Why does his company, Ajinomoto, which was the first in the world to manufacture MSG describe umami using the word savory?
From Ajinomoto's own website:
>Umami means “delicious savory taste” in Japanese, and its taste is often described as the meaty, savory deliciousness that deepens flavor.
Is Ajinomoto wrong?

>>21430092
He is describing the sensation of umami. Please think harder about these things.

>>21430095
Yes, and the sensation of umami is savory.

Here's an excerpt from an article from umamiinfo.com.
>Starting in 1899, Kikunae Ikeda studied abroad (with Japanese national government funding) in Germany at Leipzig University. Majoring in physical chemistry, he studied for two years under Professor Wilhelm Ostwald, who would go on to receive the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1909. Ikeda was surprised at the physical size and nutritional conditions of German people at the time, and he developed a strong desire to improve the nutritional status of Japanese people back home. He also tried tomatoes, asparagus, meat and cheese for the first time while in Germany, and through these experiences he sensed that another basic taste was present in foods aside from the four currently recognized tastes of sweetness, sourness, saltiness and bitterness. This realization would prompt his later research into umami (savoriness).

>>21430101
Savory is not a taste, dummy. It is a category of foods.

>>21430133
From Ajinomoto's own website:
>Umami means “delicious savory taste” in Japanese, and its taste is often described as the meaty, savory deliciousness that deepens flavor.
>umami means "delicious savory taste"
>savory taste"
>"taste"
The very first company to make MSG, Ajinomoto, the company founded by the Japanese chemist who discovered and coined umami, disagrees with you.

>>21430145
I dont give ajinofuckos boy. He is describing the taste of umami not savory.

Savory is a category of flavors/foods, so in a way it does have tastes associated with it, but it is not one of the primary tastes. Umami is one of the "savory flavors" just like salt and spicy, but not all umami foods are savory. It's only logical to recognize the difference.

>>21430177
>He also tried tomatoes, asparagus, meat and cheese for the first time while in Germany, and through these experiences he sensed that another basic taste was present in foods aside from the four currently recognized tastes of sweetness, sourness, saltiness and bitterness. This realization would prompt his later research into umami (savoriness).

He's describing savory food. He discovered extremely savory food in Germany. He wanted to understand why German food was so savory. He did, and created MSG and the Ajinomoto company which describes umami as such
>>Umami means “delicious savory taste” in Japanese, and its taste is often described as the meaty, savory deliciousness that deepens flavor.
>savory taste
>savory deliciousness
The man who created MSG and invented the term umami described it as savory. Why do you think you know better than the chemist who discovered and coined umami and created MSG? Umami and savory are inextricably linked.

>>21430210
You are simply not understanding what I'm saying.

>>21430213
What are you saying?

>>21430216
Re-read my posts and respond to my argument.

no, its something that enhances flavour

>>21430228
I did. I provided ample evidence to back up my argument. Your argument is "I'm right and you're wrong" without any proof.

>>21430256
ok boomer

>>21430256
Cope harder. If you cannot understand what I am saying that's your problem. You're just throwing meaningless quotes around.
You are literally saying daddy umami says savory is the exact same thing as umami, so I am right. LOL

>>21430260
Your problem is you don't have an argument anymore as I've proven. Your argument is contrary to the chemist who discovered umami and invented MSG. Your argument is contrary to the Japanese defintion of umami. And who is "daddy umami"?

>>21428794 (OP)
Savoury chads have won

No-one in the Yookay ever said Worcestershire sauce was "umami" until this weeb forum started peddling their Nippon fetish

>>21430292
You are legit stupid lil bro. An appeal to authority is just you being an npc. It means nothing to people who actually use their brain. It's sad how thoughtless you are.

It is very simple logic to understand my point but you are just far too stupid to follow along.

>>21430310
Yes. 4chan is the reason. 4chan is an umami website after all.

>>21430076
The literal definition and translation of the word has been posted multiple times. You're simply wrong but can't accept it

>>21429878
>and MSG is inherently savory

That's not how the word savoury is used. Foods flavored with MSG can be savoury if they are not sweet.

>>21429904
Cheesecake is inherently and deeply umami but is not savoury in any way. Which is one of the myriad reasons the two words are not interchangeable.

>>21429915
Sweet and savoury does not exist you insolent ignorant troll. You don't know English. You keep clinging to savoury claiming it means things it doesn't because clearly your vocabulary is tiny. You are pathetic.

>>21430378
no 4chan is a savoury site retard

>>21430818
one last time as to why savoury never has and never will be a good synonym for umami is that savoury is a very precise word with a fairly narrow definition while umami describes a much broader taste. Savoury specifically only refers to things which are seasoned with things like salt and spices and which isn't sweet. The people who try to insist savoury and umami are interchangeable continually confuse that because they give the word savoury a much wider meaning than it has.

There are of course many foods that are both savoury and umami. A piece of chicken roasted with salt, garlic and herbs is a perfect example. It has the umami nature of the meat and then it has the savoury nature of the seasonings. However by contrast, if that same piece of chicken was simply boiled with no salt or any other seasonings it is still umami, but it is not savoury. They try to distract, but by it's definition it is not and no one familiar with English would refer to it as savoury. This is one of the various proofs that those trying to insist the two words are interchangeable are fundamentally unfamiliar with English.

To further the point still, that same piece of chicken could be cooked up with a glaze of honey, butter and garlic. That chicken again would still be umami but it would also still not be savoury. Savoury very specifically only refers to foods seasoned in a way such that they are not sweet. The chicken could be referred to as luscious, decadent or scrumptious but would not be called savoury. Again, this is a repeated error that the ESL detractors frequently make. It's because they have a limited vocabulary that they try to label all manner of things as savoury where it simply doesn't belong.

From this point, anyone attempting to dispute the meanings and uses of English words has to prove they are at least not brown skinned (of European descent if not British) and that they live somewhere where English is used. If you're not a foreign troll then prove it.

>>21430845
Kys autist

>>21430847
Not when my beloved language is under continual attack by disingenuous, willfully ignorant trolls.

>>21430857
You speak like a midwit redditor and probably are one

>>21430845
BASED.

>>21430875
>>21430845
samefag

for me it's yo mommy instead

>>21430888
Wrong again. Cope harder for us please. We enjoy seeing savorycels lose.

>>21430818
>>21430845
>Umami in Japanese means savoriness per multiple sources
>No it doesn't
Okay

>>21430972
Npc take

By definition, 'umami' is savoriness . Let's first break down the etymology of the word 'savory'. It means something that persists in the taste for some time after, it is 'savored' by the mouth. Is this not what umami is?

We must understand that taste is not a binary thing. What makes something salty is a complicated series of information transfer between nerves in the tongue. Umami is, in fact, just on proponent of what makes something savory. Umami on its own has no flavor is and is NOT a taste. Instead, its a catalyst for other flavours, increasing how they are 'savored' in the mouth, and with salt, this is especially prominent, resulting in the existence of the flavour of 'savory' (which is not to be confused with savoring itself). Umami can work with every other taste, but we do not have good words for these, unlike with salty + umami = savory

>>21430998
Incorrect. Umami does have taste. Glutamate does not, but inosinate and guanylate have extremely meaty tastes to them. Try it the powders. You will immediately recognize the flavor if you have ever had instant ramen.

Consider this logically for a moment. If a food can be umami, but not savory does that mean umami is the exact same thing as savory or different?

>>21431006
Then what does umami taste like? Can you describe it? MSG is not solely umami taste, by the way. It's a mixture of tastes including slight saltiness enhanced with umami. There is no such thing as pure umami, it does not exist, umami is a spectrum that applies to all tastes. It's like you can't have autism on its own, there's got to be a person that the autism is attached to

>>21429915
>even though cheesecake is sweet and savory (umami)
cheese only becomes more savory once it's aged. fresh cheeses are still sweet and sour cheeses are tangy like yogurt but not savory.

>>21431009
It tastes like non-descript meat, the unifying characteristic of all meat, that foundational meat flavor before species provides its own flavor.
You can easily differentiate the salty taste from the umami taste when you try the pure powders btw. Do you have powdered stock cubes with msg and inosinate/guanylate? Taste one and see if you can taste that non descript meaty flavor. That's umami.

Buy some disodium inosinate + guanylate on amazon and try it. You'll actually gain the experience most people lack to actually have a good take in this discussion.

Peep this umami list.

https://info.newbiotic.com/documents/Glutamate-content-in-foods.pdf

>>21428842
What you mean like savory?

Umami is Asian word.

>>21428999
Quesadilla is in the English dictionary but it's still not and English word.
Its called appropriation, don't get all whiney about it everyone does it.

>>21431046
We call those cheesy tortilla sandwiches around my parts.

>>21428999
Checked, America is the hegemon

>>21428945
Umami is am English word 100%. Japanese don't know what you mean when you say it, it only means "deliciousness" and will confuse them. It became an English word out of confused weebness

how do these threads keep getting so many replies, literally what could there possibly be left to discuss after like 15 of these threads. don't you guys ever get tired of this?

>>21431026
That is so fucking stupid I can't believe it. You're telling me cottage cheese and cream cheese and ricotta aren't savory?

>>21430972
>Umami in Japanese means savoriness per multiple sources

Got any of those sources?

>>21430998
You are utterly and fundamentally wrong, stupid ESL frog poster. You don't know what savoury actually means because English isn't your native language. You are giving the word meanings it does not have. Umami and savoury are very, very different things. That's why they have different meanings.

It's very telling you post a cartoon of a frog and not proof that you aren't a foreigner posting from India or some middle east shithole.

>>21433138
No those are by definition not savoury. They are umami. Savoury has a specific meaning and ricotta and cream cheese are undeniably NOT savoury in nature. They're neither salty or spicy. Get that through your fucking skull.

>>21431703
It's because the trolls who want to insist savoury means anything they want instead of It's actual definition literally will not stop trying to spread their misinformation. It's intentional and the goal is to mangle English.

>>21433260
Google it, retard.
>>21433265
Shut the fuck up you stupid faggot they are absolutely savory. All cheese is fucking aged too. It's literally how cheese is made

>>21433314
This dude is angry as all get out AND he doesn't know how fresh cheese is made LMAO.

>>21433322
>Fresh cheese
It's literally aged milk

>>21433314
No they are NOT savoury. Look at the definition of the word. >>21433260 that does not describe either cream cheese or ricotta. Now look at the definition of umami, that does describe cream cheese or ricotta. You are continually misusing the word savoury and trying to claim it means things it doesn't. You're a fucking ESL bitch probably in Isreal or some shit doing this because you're too fucking stupid to learn what words actually mean.

>>21428842
You're almost as much of a faggot as OP

>>21433345
Because I dislike my language being mangled and ruined by moronic trolls who refuse to learn what words actually mean and just insist for months on end that their precious feelings about what they want savoury to mean should take precedence? Your brown skinned opinion doesn't mean anything to me.

>>21433331
Cottage cheese and cream cheese are probably two of the easiest examples of savory you can find. Cheese in general is savory. Even the sweeter ones

>>21433538
>Cottage cheese and cream cheese are probably two of the easiest examples of savory you can find. Cheese in general is savory. Even the sweeter ones

No. You illiterate fucking moron. You are using the word completely wrong. Even by American definitions, neither of those are savoury in any way.

>>21433538
>Savory is applied chiefly to cooked food made palatable by spices and condiments
>>21433260
>(of food) belonging to the category which is salty or spicy rather than sweet

You are wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Stop fucking talking about what savoury means when you are objectively dead wrong and have no clue what you're talking about. Unseasoned cheese is not savoury. Sweetened cheese is absolutely not savoury in ANY way. You are a miserable shit skinned troll who doesn't know the first thing about English.

>>21433538
Ohh yeah, and post your fucking hand and not a frog cartoon so we can all see what a shit skin you are.

>>21433325
Wrong. It is processed using rennet and a culture. Fresh cheese can be made in hours.

>>21433778
>>21433790
NTA but go fuck yourself up a wall.

>>21433843
So they are not the same thing like everyone smart has been saying.

>>21433865
>e : being, inducing, or marked by the rich or meaty taste sensation of umami
Is it opposite day already?

>>21433869
That is not the same thing as umami lmao

>>21433898
Not OK, you are intelligent, heterosexual and a member of the white race.

>>21433804
What do you think the culture and rennet do to the milk? They speed up the aging process in a specific way to get cheese ya fuckin dunce

>>21433928
You are really stupid. It's so funny.

>>21433953
Ad hominem. Umami is Japanese for savory

>>21434010
Every dictionary as well as common sense proves you factually incorrect.

Your stupidity stems from the fact that you believe letting milk age magically turns it into brie. Retard.

>>21434022
You claimed there's such a thing as "fresh" cheese when there isn't. All cheese is aged milk ya idiot. Also every source describes umami as savory. Shut up

>>21434040
Aged refers to extended periods of time, usually months. Not minutes or hours like you seem to think. It's laughably stupid. Go to a cheese shop and tell them their farmers cheese or ricotta is aged. You'll get laughed out of there in an instant.

You are really comical. Thanks for the laughs.

>>21434057
No, no not really since cheese only exists to preserve milk and it's nutritional content. So even "fresh" cheeses are still just preserved (or old/aged) milk. I'm sorry you can't wrap your head around it. Wait til you find out about pickles

>>21434079
You just changed the goalposts after being proven wrong. Preserved is not synonymous with aged in any sense. Preservation allows for aging, but a preserved food is not aged until time passes to give it age. We don't call cheese aged milk for a very good reason. That is not what cheese is.
I'm unsuprised you cannot wrap your head around the fact that umami and savory are not the same thing. Wait until you hear about glutamate receptors on the tongue.

>>21434079
You are not smart or witty for insisting that a pizza is just an open face sandwich. It's just stupid autism.

>>21430377
I’m not appealing to authority. I’m citing the Japanese chemist who discovered and coined umami as well as inventing MSG powder. Apparently you’re more of an authority on umami than the discoverer of umami/inventor of MSG.

>>21434100
Cheese is literally aged milk. Cottage cheese is one of the freshest cheeses you can get and it's just curdled milk. Preserving = prolonging somethings lifespan or aging. I'm sure you'll figure it out at some point, but at this rate my hopes aren't high
>>21434104
Especially when this is the type of person to agree with you

>>21434177
>>21434173
>if I repeat myself enough I'll be correct

Lol really nice cope.

>>21434190
>if I dismiss every argument that proves me wrong I'll be correct

Can you tell me what makes you more of an authority on umami than Kikunae Ikeda? Call me crazy, but I'm more inclined to believe him than a random /ck/ troll. Ikeda didn't divorce umami from savory like you do. I've provided ample evidence. You have not. I believe you're engaging in what you've repeatedly called "bad faith" discussion.

>>21434227
You have failed to respond to a single one of my posts.

>>21428794 (OP)
My cooking changed 360 degrees when I discovered Umami and the Umami flavour pallette toolkit. Was like opening up Narnia's wardrobe, and discovering a world of culinary possibility. It was like learning how to season food properly for the first time - a second loss of the virginity.

>>21434242
Same. It really makes such a big difference, especially when you're feeding normies hah.
The people that refuse to even acknowledge the existence of umami are just telling good cooks that they suck at cooking.

>>21434236
That is an outright lie.

>>21434253
You gave me a you, but your responses failed to address any of my points. It is the definition of a bad faith argument. Go back and give it a shot lil dude.

>>21433843
>>21433869
Savoury always and consistently means not sweet. Literally no one would call pecan pie or cheesecake or bacon with pancakes and syrup savoury, EVER. Sweet and savoury is NOT a thing. Those things are are clearly and undeniably umami in nature though. So savoury will always be a terrible attempt to say the two words are interchangeable since they just plain aren't.

It's that you always cling to savoury, over and over and ignore the host of other words that are at least as close or better that highlights this is all just disingenuous trolling.