Every animal you have ever consumed has experienced sadness, wonder, happiness, and fear right before they died.

Yes but when I do it with animals I'm used to eating, it's based and caveman pilled. When someone else does it with animals I'm not used to eating, it's sick, serial killer shit and it just proves that they're all subhuman.

>>21431050 (OP)
if animals are so smart, why dont they just eat humans or make spaceships to get away from us? checkmate atheists

>>21431050 (OP)
Boo fucking hoo, so did I

>>21431050 (OP)
That's why I hope go out getting eaten by a tiger or something to help even the score. Eating animals is fine, they do it to each other constantly, but it is a bit kitsch to do so while not fearing being eaten on a day-by-day basis.

Pigs have such human eyes, but they are so delicious. I'd rather not live than not eat meat.

>>21431050 (OP)
i want lab-grown meat :(

>>21431050 (OP)
If it wasn’t for my desire to eat these animals, they would have never been brought into existence in the first place. If we had no desire to kill them, then we’d have no reason to give them life.

>>21431084
this is a decent argument if the animals are living good lives and are comfortable and happy. animals living nightmarish lives in factory farms were probably better off not existing at all because i can't imagine they ever really experienced much of anything pleasant.

-1'th order thinking, OP
All living things die regardless. Humans give food animals life and usually a humane death.

>>21431050 (OP)
Perhaps, but with no opposable thumb it is their fate and purpose to be used by higher beings

>>21431087
True, but you can find stores and butchers selling ethically raised meat in much of the world. There's a cost premium, but if you make a decent income it is not that much of a stretch (at least in Texas where I live).
Plus if you truly feel strongly for this, you can also hunt for your meat. One buck can net you enough food to feed a family for months and fishing is always an option.
As much as I'd love to stop factory farming, telling every poor person that their staple protein option went from cheap chicken and cheap eggs to exclusively expensive eggs probably isn't viable. But society is getting wealthier and despite what overly online dorks say living standards are still generally rising so maybe we will be able to ditch factory farms within my lifetime

>>21431087
or you could be imagining an entirely untrue, fabricated horror, an alternative reality of sorts, to justify your veganism by good virtue and superiority. Go find, then do something about the wrongs in this world or get off your soapbox.

>>21431087
Most animals live happier lives than the average person who consumes them, even in what we’d think are shit conditions.

>>21431101
>you're imagining things
>imagining i'm vegan
i'm not vegan

>>21431050 (OP)
Every bug that you've ever stepped on begged for its life.
Every one of your skin cells that you scratched to death had a family.

>>21431050 (OP)
Good. This also applies to plants. The plants that grows in the greenhouse are about as bland as store bought while one in the open they tastes like heaven. All the heat, cold, moisture, sun shine, weather, bug and soil stresses the fuck out of plants and they cope and prepare with secretion of many acid, pigments and other shit. One can taste and smell the evidence of that it has been through.

Every time you wash your hands, you kill between 10,000 and 10 million bacteria PER HAND.
Every single cell experienced sadness, wonder, happiness, and fear right before they died.
What kind of monster values their own sanitation over tens of millions of lives every day?
Stop committing genocide. Stop washing your hands.

>>21431050 (OP)
I'm a dairy-avoidant vegetarian

>>21431131
grim

>>21431050 (OP)
That's nice

>>21431136
No, it's nice

>>21431118
crop plants are just grown for things other than flavor and nutrition, size and transportability mainly. and they're picked underripe. if you grow a good variety properly it can be just as good.

>>21431123
epic

>>21431147
>can’t eat cheesecake, pizza, or chocolate
no, it’s grim

>>21431050 (OP)
It's their fault for being so delicious.

you can't eat without taking some form of life thats how the world works

>>21431050 (OP)
A emotionally fulfilled life then.
Let’s eat.

>>21431160
I can eat them, and I sometimes do, I just generally avoid dairy.
There are also dairy-free alternatives with such foods, which are generally okay.

>>21431173
and we could change that instead of just throwing our hands up and shitting ourselves

Hippies said the same thing about hippies and it didn't stop anyone from beating them up.

>>21431050 (OP)
Now explain why that matters.

>>21431188
end yourself now before the cancer from your dairy alternatives gets you

>>21431198
As opposed to the cancers from red meat? Okay.

>>21431195
i say it does

>>21431203
Fact: pretend foods will always be worse for you than actual food. Fact.

>>21431212
'Dairy-free' does not necessarily mean chemical lab slop. It simply means workarounds to not have dairy, which can entail completely natural ingredients. And while we're on the subject of facts: a diet with consistent red meat intake is more likely to contribute to the development of cancers compared to a diet with minimal or no meat red meat consumption. Fact.

>>21431101
Animal ag companies have lobbied many state governments to ban recording of animals in factory farms because it was so horrifying. You can get charged with a felony or even a domestic terrorist charge for trying to expose factory farms or CAFOs. Clearly they have something to hide.
>>21431084
Their lives are so miserable that in a lot of cases it would be better than being born at all. For example it would be completely understandable for a human to commit suicide to avoid being enslaved or tortured to death.l

>>21431225
Good thing I rarely eat red meat then. Which I can do without becoming a vege/vegan retard.

>>21431228
Animals lack a lot of higher order thinking that would cause them to think their existence is ‘miserable’. They simply know that they exist.

>>21431228
>Their lives are so miserable that in a lot of cases it would be better than being born at all.
Sounds like you need to go vegan, anon. But it doesn't mean that what you imagine is true. So, why are you on this forum?? Shouldn't you be shilling over at PETA or greenpeace places? You have very extreme views. It's not normal.

I'm not giving up meat, personally. I weekly and daily count my consumption of vitamin K and I'm not going to increase protein from veggie, personally, that'd be like eliminating most of my current diet which would be too much work. The issue with veganism is it consumes too much of your life, thinking, planning, creating menus and meals. It's literally the diet of the obsessive-compulsive types. It should be added to the DSM, just like picky eaters was added. I suggest meds.

>>21431228
>You can get charged with a felony or even a domestic terrorist charge for trying to expose factory farms or CAFOs. Clearly they have something to hide.
Or maybe you'd just be trespassing on someone else's private and secure property, maybe to taint and contaminate their food industry products, introduce pathogens on your feet and clothes or intentionally poison the animal food supplies, or mess with their business model, durr. People break the law all the time when they use their ideals to justify it. What gives you the right to be there without being an employee worker. None. Your inability to see the entire picture should be punishable by law.

In my state, there are certainly egg chickens that are not free range, nor would I want them outside in the weather, the mud, and dubious conditions and ridiculous heat and humidity. Fans will blow around excrement. Free range would mean a greater need for antibiotics and sanitation changes, and I would not need to be introducing the risks of their fights and damages to each other, like happens when territories and roosters get involved. Animal welfare activists don't live in reality to see a whole picture. Get your own chicken coop is the answer, and then euthenize the unwanted chicks as the birds live and die in their short life cycles. Very short. It's neither feasible nor economical, but it's fine for occasional slaughter, and gifting.

The other animal farming is very light, maybe 6% of the overall state, which is nearly entirely agriculture. You'll see nearly all cattle have literal acres to graze but instead just park themselves near water and under trees to stay cool. They'll share land with agriculture.

>>21431268
>nor would I want them outside in the weather, the mud, and dubious conditions and ridiculous heat and humidity
lol
>the weather
can't imagine it being much worse than a crowded factory farm. you're still supposed to provide shelter if it does get too hot or cold or whatever

>the mud
like they don't shit everywhere and walk around in it otherwise

acting like factory farming is some kind blessing that's better for them is insane

>>21431050 (OP)
is that Trump

>>21431206
You're already yelling at the maggots that'll feast on your corpse lmao. Grow up. You and your poorly disguised narcissism don't matter.

>>21431323
blah blah blah

>>21431188
You would deny a cow her right to get her tits fondled?

>>21431050 (OP)
I went vegan. My motivation for this is that I feel I have a duty to be respectful to life. I find consequentialist arguments for animal rights to often be a mere extension of self-interest and liberal-utilitarian utility maxing. I don't consider this a lifestyle nor do I deeply identify with the vegan label. It's just a morality thing for me.

>>21431282
>can't imagine it being much worse than a crowded factory farm.
then you don't know that they have to physically nip off/chop off the beaks of chickens to prevent injuries between the vicious and territorial birds if they walk around in that "free range" setting. The fact you don't imagine very well does not deny the bigger reality.

>>21431050 (OP)
Schrodinger's bacon: If I didn't see the bacon before it died, it might as well always have been bacon. Conversely, a property (a sad pig) is not real if I have never observed it.

>>21431364
>then you don't know that they have to physically nip off/chop off the beaks of chickens to prevent injuries between the vicious and territorial birds if they walk around in that "free range" setting.
they do that in crowded factory farms too... idk what that has to do with the weather anyway

>The fact you don't imagine very well does not deny the bigger reality.
snarky bitch, so pathetic

>>21431072
>I'd rather not live than not eat meat.
Nobody actually thinks this. Let's face it -- we eat factory farmed animals because we are complicit in our satanic jewish society.

>>21431050 (OP)
Many animal species literally need to be eaten otherwise they reproduce to the point of mass starvation, that includes deer and rabbit which ironically enough people refuse to eat because they are cute

>>21431370
No, I eat them because they are tasty

>>21431247
Humans lack a lot of higherer order thinking that would cause them to think their existence is ‘miserabler’. They simply know that they are miserable.

The suffering is what matters. Not being able to come to conclusions from it does not make it any less real.

>>21431050 (OP)
literally not my problem. I will eat a burger for dinner and simply not care. This form of guilt tripping only works on women and morons

>>21431050 (OP)
This is why you honour what you eat and remain thankful

>>21431050 (OP)
don't care. the strong survive and the weak get eaten. such is the nature of this bitch of an earth. there is nothing anybody could do to change it.

>>21431386
Based
People who can't handle the fact that an animal died for their food deserve to be malnourished

>>21431394
>there is nothing anybody could do to change it.
sounds like a weak mindset

>>21431411
alright brother deconstruct the entire circle of life and reconstruct it in a manner where cruelty no longer exists.

>>21431425
i will

>>21431426
youre going to have to kill off alot of carnivorous species

>>21431100
If population keeps going down, even if living standards drop some, it isn't unlikely.

>>21431050 (OP)
What if plants and fungi also feel pain (but of course they won't say so) , should I then start eating stones ?

>>21431283
lmfao came here for this comment

>>21431050 (OP)
Except for the fear part

>Ohh, where are we? Looks like another pen. Food time! Huh, I wonder what he is holding the-

And then the lights went out

>>21431428
Even most herbivores are obligate meat eaters though, you'd have to kill them as well. Any plants that block out sunlight also kill smaller plants that want to grow, so you'd have to eliminate trees, bushes, grasses, etc. Even the short plants crowd out seeds in terms of nutrients and water, though, so we'll just have to eliminate all plants. Fungi kill other fungi and bacteria, so they have to go. Most bacteria also absorb other bacteria, so the only remaining organism would be phytoplankton

>>21431428
i can come up with a better solution

>>21431445
better than this rambling bullshit

>>21431442
no lol animals often get pretty stressed during transport or with any other sudden big changes in routine. that only really works if you slaughter the animal on site and even more preferably with someone the animal has gotten used to, but that's rare.

>>21431050 (OP)
So did our fallen ancestors way back when, this is all just reparations

>>21431050 (OP)
I don't give a fuck.

>>21431050 (OP)
True its so sad im so glad you said this because its important for everyone to know but at the same time too much knowledge and awareness has caused me to live unhappily and suffer greatly BUT this in particular is important for all the retards who eat way too much meat and dont cherish it and are ignorant and racist and stuff

>>21431050 (OP)
stop being retarded. i love animals yes but even if we had animals just as companions, they still die. they still very well may suffer from OTHER animals eating them

coming from someone who has a fuckton of chickens and only consumes eggs from them

>>21431050 (OP)
I eat meat because a vegan or vegetarian diet is unhealthy and unnatural.

>>21431377
Yeah, you eat them because they are tasty and because you are no better than a jew.

>>21431681
Yeah enjoy your beyond slop Mr totally not a goyim own those Jews!

>>21431686
>omnivore fragility
So fucking reddit.

>>21431050 (OP)
There's literally nothing stopping you from killing yourself. Nobody every loved you so you won't even inconvenience anyone.

>>21431050 (OP)
>it's a kike doesn't want anyone but the chosen people to eat meat episode
please do me a favor and spare us your next justification for drinking children's blood out of their penis you disgusting cannibal goblin trash

You know what I hate? The state of ignorance we've placed ourselves in.
People are watching too many Disney-Pixar movies and are attaching human attributes to animals. And then I get into conversations like this:
>do you know where your meat comes from?
Yes.
>do you know they are housed in factory farms and are suffering?
Not always.
>would you kill an animal yourself?
Already have.

And then they lose their shit. Yes, I've been to my grandma's farm and we killed a few animals to eat. As people have done so for millennia. Why are we so disconnected from the fact that we kill animals on a daily basis? Whether through pesticides, destruction of their home environment, by virtue of research or medicine, etc.? No one is immune to this.
The truth is, vegans couldn't care less about the environment. If they come from a western nation, they're already consuming their way 100x more into co2 emissions than any 3rd worlder. It's just that they can't admit one single thing to themselves: "I think killing animals is icky". Just admit you're a little bitch and be done with it.

>>21431680
There's nothing "natural" about keeping animals in cages or small pens their entire life. Have you ever seen a lion cage gazelle, and then build a slaughterhouse to industrially kill thousands of them a day?

>>21431442
I can't speak for cattle but pigs get freaked out, they know somethings wrong. They're as smart as dogs, and every dog owner knows that dogs are aware when you them to the vet to put them down.

>>21431050 (OP)
And?

>>21431050 (OP)
That makes it taste better.

>>21431784
99% of all meat sold in the US is from factory farms or CAFOs. Meat from small family farms or from hunted game is economically irrelevant. Nobody in the US gets all their meat from locally sources farms or from hunting except maybe the Amish.

>Muh environment
The cattle industry is easily the worst agricultural industry for environmental damage and it's not even close.

>>21431795
Fortunately I'm not in the US.
>The cattle industry is easily the worst agricultural industry for environmental damage and it's not even close.
Pork tastes better anyway, which is what my main source of protein is.

>>21431050 (OP)
ORANGE
FOOL

>>21431050 (OP)
Aw, sweet. Is it movie night on /ck/ already?
https://archive.org/details/LeSangDesBtes

>>21431050 (OP)
The existence of every animal I've ever consumed was predicated upon my consumption of it.

>>21431686
Ancient Greece was the birthplace of Western vegetarianism, animals were often sacred symbols in Egypt, Greece and Rome and killing them required a sacrifice. (The Illiad describes Agamemnon sacrificing a bull to Zeus and then eating it with his entourage, implying eating beef wasn't common even for kings and was reserved for special occasions.) Meanwhile the Old Testament fetishizes mass slaughter of animals and took the spiritual nature and normalized testing animals as unthinking products meant to serve humans, devoid of any religious connotations. Factory farms would be impossible without Jewish spirituality. It's why factory farms are most common in the Protestant Anglosphere.

>>21431050 (OP)
Cool, I absorbed their life energy. Get killed & eaten, suckers! Ahahaa

>>21431050 (OP)
I saw a story about wolves making a comeback in some states. They're killing cattle and whatever else that were once safe.
I figure that is nature, but should we kill our own food instead of relying on slaughterhouses?

And they would all have killed their own offspring for a bucket of feed.
Amusing how atheists consider death to be the greatest travesty but their animal kin treat it with little regard… A symptom of being gifted a higher consciousness and choosing to be an animal, perhaps.

>eating living things is bad
>e-except plants of course h-haha
Either it's okay to eat living things or it isn't. You can't have it both ways. The only animal rights people I respects are the ones who consume nothing but purely synthetic food.

>>21431919
>purely synthetic food
doesn't exist lol

>>21431072
Just eat it 2-3 times a week rather than every day. Your soul and the animal will be grateful.

>>21431941
fuck off parasite

>>21431050 (OP)
>Every animal you have ever consumed has experienced sadness, wonder, happiness, and fear right before they died.

>>21431050 (OP)
plants are also capable of feeling all that

>>21431087
most animals are smart enough to self-harm if they truly find their conditions to be that detrimental and yet most of them aren't doing so
it's just pissy vegans projecting their nihilism onto lower lifeforms
factory farming is the consequence of economies of scale multiplied by a bloated human population, and industrial agriculture is just as ugly for the same reason

>>21431123
They are not fellow mammals

>>21431050 (OP)
Good. Glad to know they had a well rounded existence.

>>21431995
>most animals are smart enough to self-harm
I need you motherfuckers to stop this shit goddamn how fucking retarded

>>21431050 (OP)
every animal on this planet has died a miserable and painful death with no humans involved.

animals die from the following:
predation (painful death)
infection (painful death)
disease (painful death)
starvation (long and painful death)

no animal in the wild dies from old age.

fuck off. you have no concept how nature works.

>>21431190
yeah we could eat rocks and develop photosynthesis. what the fuck are you on about? eating a plant is the destruction of life.

>>21432028
Didn't realize you were such a clade-ist, anon.

>>21432041
Human deaths can be painful too. Does that means we should keep children in cages and then slaughter them when they come of age?

>>21432041
I wouldn't say NO wild animal dies of old age. There are quite a few animals with no real natural predators for whatever reason. If disease doesn't get them, organ failure will eventually.

>>21432049

>>21431160
>thinks milk chocolate is good

all reproduction is evil imo
vegetarians focus on animals because they are spoiled

Watch Dominion

https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?si=8FYyZQa4JtqD1sxM

Every animal that's ever lived has experienced sadness, wonder, happiness, and fear right before they were killed by the food chain.
So profound.

A thread died for this btw.

>>21432077
>A thread died for this btw.
A thread that experienced sadness, wonder, happiness, and fear right before it died

>>21432090
Someone should make a documentary about this to raise awareness

>>21432077
>Every animal that's ever lived has experienced sadness, wonder, happiness, and fear
The vast majority of animals aren't capable of experiencing any of that

>muh intelligent live stock
Chickens are brutal as fuck, they kill each other by pecking the head of the other until it dies.
Pigs eat baby animals.
Ducks shit so much it ruins the area.

They deserve their deaths.
Also chickens have lost so much braincells from stock breeding they are a literally nearly braindead.

>>21432101
Think of the cockroaches you fucking nazi

>>21431050 (OP)
This is just a bare assertion. Prove that animals are conscious — that they have any experiences at all. You can't. Not that I'm staking out the opposite position confidently, either. It's a difficult issue. On my more cynical days, I even doubt that humans who fail the breakfast test have internal experiences.