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Thread 21487970

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Anonymous No.21487970 >>21487992 >>21488501 >>21488710 >>21501156
Taiwanese "cuisine"
Took it upon myself to investigate the origins of various Taiwanese dishes after the slapfight in the other thread. Here's what I came up with.

For reference, I'm an American, and I looked these all up on Google search (which has grounding, so no need to worry about sources).
Anonymous No.21487992 >>21488388 >>21488395
>>21487970 (OP)
Oh great another asian autism thread
Anonymous No.21488190 >>21501497
Chang, your arguments have been nothing short of idiocy. As you yourself stated in the OP of your other thread, Japanese sushi wouldn't be the way it is now without Chinese influence.

Well guess what, chang? La dee da, it's the same with China too! Can you imagine Sichuan cuisine without chili peppers and potatoes from Latin America? Can you imagine hot pot or milk tea without the Mongols on their horseback? Can you imagine Chinese curry and Buddha's delight without Indian influences?

Most of what China currently refers to as "Chinese cuisine" is merely modern fabrication, often through the role and orchestration of the communists. An example would be the Wen Tianxiang story about three-cup chicken. Believing that tall tale's real is just as stupid as believing General Tso invented General Tso's chicken. "5000 years of history" is just a lie invented by Han patriots to bolster nationalism. (Oh, and just so you know? It was actually invented in Taiwan, by the way, just like three-cup chicken itself!)

I think you'd be surprised at how much of the cuisine in any country is a lot younger than you might think. Too bad you've got the Chinese patriot goggles on. (Let me guess: your mommy whipped you too hard during Chinese school?!) Therefore, any chauvinist or Han-supremacist discussion about the "authenticity" of certain dishes is utterly pointless.

Get a grip, chang. You seem overly invested in this topic, and at this point I'm starting to genuinely get worried about your mental health.
Anonymous No.21488388
>>21487992
I am not diagnosed with autism, but I've been studying it lately. Their obsession for intricate things has inspired me to take up Chinese again. My brain feels better. It was rotting before.
Anonymous No.21488395
>>21487992
Damn, scott cawthon really fell off
Anonymous No.21488501
>>21487970 (OP)
Tried looking it up myself, and found a few other dishes

Fish Balls are from HK
>Fish balls (้ญš่›‹) are one of Hong Kong's most popular and representative "street foods", eaten plain or cooked in a curry sauce. Readily available in traditional markets and supermarkets, fish balls are also a popular ingredient in hot pot.

They also had "Taiwanese sausage", though efforts to find a "true origin" for those anywhere outside Taiwan, or even within Taiwan, remained elusive despite my efforts and consulting multiple sources.
Anonymous No.21488710 >>21488938 >>21488955
>>21487970 (OP)
Wow so your telling me a nation of people who came from somewhere else have food from that place???
Anonymous No.21488938
>>21488710
Yeah it's almost like Taiwan's culturally a part of China or something like that.
Anonymous No.21488955
>>21488710
Grok? Can I get a fact check on this?
Anonymous No.21489005 >>21489024 >>21489340
This list is so fucking dumb, chang

Like using your same broken Google AI, apparently mac and cheese was invented in England
Anonymous No.21489024 >>21489034
>>21489005
it was
Anonymous No.21489034 >>21490329
>>21489024
fucking brits and their typical culinary craftsmanship lmaoooooo

in the 1700s tho not the 1400s or 1500s OP was claiming
Anonymous No.21489340 >>21489685
>>21489005
>Baked beans
>Indigenous roots
Why is Google's AI so fucking stupid? Indigenous to fucking WHERE!?
Anonymous No.21489685
>>21489340
I wrote "indigenous". And obviously to America by the context.
Anonymous No.21490329 >>21492082
>>21489034
Macaroni is mentioned in the lyrics of Yankee Doodle
Anonymous No.21490413 >>21490420 >>21491061
You mean to tell me a nation that used to be China has Chinese food? My Taiwanese buddy calls mainland China west Taiwan if that's an indication.
Anonymous No.21490420 >>21491065
>>21490413
These morons dont even know US history, why would they know Chinese history?
Anonymous No.21491061 >>21497067
>>21490413
Taiwan being its own non-China country is such a fucking larp when you consider the facts

>speak varieties of Chinese
>started off as an irrelevant ooga booga jungle until the Chinese came over and brought civilization
>like 95% Han Chinese
>China in its official name
>founded as a "based" alternative to communist China
>culturally identical to China in almost every aspect imaginable, except free of communist trappings
Anonymous No.21491065 >>21491114
>>21490420
The US has history?
Anonymous No.21491114 >>21492015
>>21491065
It does, but so much less compared to China.
Anonymous No.21492015 >>21496012
>>21491114
not if you count Native American history ofc!

...lol. Just... LOL.
Anonymous No.21492024
china is west taiwan
Anonymous No.21492082 >>21492088 >>21492123 >>21493738
>>21490329
Macaroni was a fashion trend in the 1700s. Rich fops who had gone on a grand tour of Europe and particularly Italy, and came back to Britain as obnoxious fags in weird clothes. Compare and contrast with Dandy or Hipster.
So named because they usually picked up a taste for macaroni pasta in Italy.

the joke in Yankee Doodle is that the American in question is not only so gay as to want to be a Macaroni, but also so repressed and/or unworldly as to think merely sticking a feather in his hat is gay enough to be Macaroni style.
Anonymous No.21492088
>>21492082
https://youtube.com/watch?v=M7g6pw_0W1U
Anonymous No.21492123
>>21492082
every now and then i'll remember 20+ years ago when i was in high school
the teacher said something or other about paul revere and the black kid in the class said "ain't that the dude that put macaroni in his hat?"
Anonymous No.21493738 >>21493761
>>21492082
>stuck a rainbow on his back and called themselves a tranny
Anonymous No.21493761 >>21494073
>>21493738
>called himself a tranny
they call themselves women these days
Anonymous No.21494073
>>21493761
they didn't call themselves macaroni those days
Anonymous No.21494080 >>21494632
Is this surprising? "Taiwanese" people are just 3rd generation Han Chinese colonists. Aboriginal Taiwanese people are an endangered ethnicity.
Anonymous No.21494632 >>21502001
>>21494080
Well, there are some retards who have this idea that everything China invented was actually the work of Mongol or Manchu goatfuckers
Anonymous No.21496012
>>21492015
nice cherry picking lol
Anonymous No.21496216 >>21496528
taiwan is china there is no "taiwanese people" those are just chinese
Anonymous No.21496528 >>21497469
>>21496216
yes there are

and they (austronesians) are literally the ancestor of all pacific islanders

malagasy, chams, tagalogs, cebuanos, ilocanos, waray, malays, javanese, sundanese, balinese, batak, maori, samoans, marshallese, palauans, tahitians, tongans, fijians, hawaiians
Anonymous No.21497067 >>21498902
>>21491061
>started off as an irrelevant ooga booga jungle until the Chinese came over and brought civilization
All of Asia belongs to the West then, since we caused them to industrialize
>like 95% Han Chinese
Because they colonized it. They're not indigenous.
If chinks are going to whine about western imperialism I don't care what territory they feel entitled to
>China in its official name
...and existed before the PRC
>culturally identical to China in almost every aspect imaginable, except free of communist trappings
You can't have the modern PRC without authoritarianism
Anonymous No.21497469
>>21496528
>yes there are
well they claim otherwise unless they gave up on the whole mainland thing
Anonymous No.21498902
>>21497067
britain pretty much just implemented a firewall similar to china's lol

if all the countries are gonna be authoritarian and censor shit to their own will, i might as well align more with the ones that actually get shit built
Anonymous No.21499823 >>21500919
Everyone know taiwanese are just island chinese. We pretend they are different countries so we can do a ukraine 2.0 on china in a few years.
Anonymous No.21500919
>>21499823
And it ended up erupting in SE Asia instead lol
Anonymous No.21501156 >>21501212
>>21487970 (OP)
This type of autism is like delineating between a chopped cheese being a new york food, or an american food. It's all the same shit.
Anonymous No.21501212 >>21501236
>>21501156
Now imagine some retards tried to claim New York State was an independent country that had nothing to do with America.

That New York was never REALLY part of America.

That New Yorkers don't speak English, or even "American English" or "American", but "New Yorker".

That there's a Hollywood film industry, and a New York film industry.

That there's an American cuisine with different regional varieties like New England food with seafood and chowder, southern food with chicken and biscuits, Texan food with brisket and BBQ, and Midwestern food with casserole and hotdish... along with a New York food that has nothing to do with the aforementioned regional traditions, because of its bagels, chopped cheese, and special Jewish and Arab cultural influences the rest of America might not be getting enough of.

That they have bodegas and Broadway as part of their separate culture, even though it's all obviously derived from American culture, and you can find a lot of the same stuff elsewhere in America.

Sadly, a ton of people around the world believe this shit, even though the actual facts couldn't be more obvious.
Anonymous No.21501236 >>21501253
>>21501212
People do that with Australia and Britain
Nice try CCP shill
Anonymous No.21501253 >>21501480
>>21501236
I'm from the US, and have never lived in the CPC ever.
Anonymous No.21501480
>>21501253
*PRC
Anonymous No.21501497 >>21502444
>>21488190
>Sichuan cuisine without chili peppers
Sichuan peppers are native to China
Anonymous No.21502001 >>21502438
>>21494632
LMAO! This chang took screen shots like its some sort of exercise his therapist told him to do to help him deal with the ass blasting he got.
Holy crap, you are legit the most cringe loser on /ck/ by a mile.

And its true, Chinese foods were influenced WAY MORE than it influenced others. ROFL!
Anonymous No.21502438 >>21502964
>>21502001
>where do japanese gyoza and ramen come from
>where does korean jjajangmyeon come from
>where do singaporean char kway teow and hainanese chicken rice come from (literally where is hainan)
>where do vietnamese pho come from
>where do peruvian lomo saltado and arroz chaufa come from
>who invented soy sauce
>who invented noodles (i WILL concede italy and china COULD'VE invented noodles separately, but there's no way ramen, jjajangmyeon, or pho had more italian influence than chinese)
>who invented oyster sauce
>who invented the wok
Anonymous No.21502444 >>21502472
>>21501497
Entirely different from the other peppers used in their cuisine.
Which came from Latin America
Anonymous No.21502472 >>21502522
>>21502444
Well, who invented mala ziji? Latin America, or China?
Anonymous No.21502522 >>21502608
>>21502472
What allowed mala ziji to exist? Latin American Chile peppers
We wouldn't exist without monkeys in Africa learning it's better to walk than swing from vine to vine
Anonymous No.21502608 >>21506090
>>21502522
Well why didn't Latin America invent mala ziji?
Anonymous No.21502964 >>21503024
>>21502438
Mostly manchus and mongols, chang. Seethe and cope.
Anonymous No.21503024 >>21503051 >>21503072 >>21503082 >>21503183
>>21502964
In addition to all the above... where is Hainan on a map?
Anonymous No.21503051
>>21503024
not him but post a real source, faggot
Anonymous No.21503072 >>21503165
>>21503024
zhajiangmian comes from Manchuria, aka manchus during the Qing (manchu) dynasty. Even Chinese sources state this
Anonymous No.21503082 >>21503183
>>21503024
chang, no one in the other thread said pho ramen lomo saltado were manchu or mongol. What kind of strawman argument is this?
>make up fake argument no one made, go to ccp_propganda_help.cn and asks pinkies for help cause ass blasted.
>Deboonked!
Seriously? How cringe.
Anonymous No.21503165 >>21503169
>>21503072
Nigga can you even READ Chinese?

This presents 3 theories of origin for zhajiangmian, and only the first attributes it to a Manchu inventor. The third attributes it rather dubiously to Emperor Qin Shi Huang's cook during the Qin dynasty, and the second literally admits that - lo and behold - the Qing Manchu imperial family co-opted the recipe from commoners living in Xi'an for the palace!

Consulted Eater.com too:
>This type of localized adaptation is something that has characterized zhajiangmian throughout its history. Originally from northern China, the specialty has been avidly embraced in Beijing, Korea (where itโ€™s known as jjajangmyeon), Japan (as jajamen), Sichuan province, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. While conventional wisdom holds that the dish originated in Beijing, Carolyn Phillips, the author of All Under Heaven: Recipes from the 35 Cuisines of China, believes that it got its start in homes and small towns in Northeast China before it became popular in Chinaโ€™s capital. โ€œItโ€™s very possible that itโ€™s something created by the Hui Muslims โ€” they created so many of North Chinaโ€™s greatest noodle dishes and bread dishes and they really donโ€™t get enough credit for it,โ€ Phillips says.

The Hui are Han Chinese, and speak Mandarin as their indigenous language.
Anonymous No.21503169
>>21503165
>muh theory is better than yours
chang, do you read? your claim is a theory. lol
Anonymous No.21503183 >>21503191 >>21503206
>>21503024
Also, since you apparently can't read maps, HERE's Hainan!

https://www.soundofhope.org/post/718733
>According to legend, during the Ming Dynasty, an official from Wenchang brought Wenchang chicken back to the capital and presented it to the emperor. The emperor savoured it and praised it highly, saying, "This chicken comes from a land of culture, blessed with outstanding people and flourishing culture. The chicken is also delicious and fragrant. It is truly Wenchang chicken

(Wenchang chicken = the original version of Hainanese chicken rice. Wenchang is a city in Hainan.)

>>21503082
They're examples of China's vast influence on other cuisines. You know, in response to you saying:

>And its true, Chinese foods were influenced WAY MORE than it influenced others. ROFL!

Meanwhile, the examples you used for how those nanny goat fuckers influenced Chinese cuisine?

>In fact, Manchu foods like dezhou chicken was so loved that later on the Chinese emperor made it part of his royal menu. Today, Manchu foods like ๆฒ™็ช็Ž›, ๆ–‡ๅฎ‡,้…ธ่œ็™ฝ่‚‰, etc. are all over China.
>Manchu's are the reason why China has Hotpot, pickled veggies, blood sausage, various buns (steamed and fried), sweet/sour soups, pastries, and even types of soft cheese and yogurts. These are iconic dishes we see in China and authentic Chinese dishes to this day. THEY ALL CAME FROM THE MANCHU'S!!!

You're so historically off base it's laughable.
>hotpot
Goes back to the Three Kingdoms period. Then the Qing co-opted it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_pot#History)

>buns
Baozi arose during the Three Kingdoms period and are sometimes credited to Zhuge Liang; first confirmed record is Song dynasty. Mantou? Mentioned in Warring States, Han, and Western Jin texts before the Mongols co-opted them.

You're just embarrassing yourself, and I can almost smell the goat farts.
Anonymous No.21503185 >>21507929
Sun Yat-sen would not be pleased by this thread. Or, really, by basically anything either China has done since he died, but you know.
Anonymous No.21503191
>>21503183
Who are you talking about? Schizophrenia can be treated.
Anonymous No.21503206
>>21503183
>blood sausage... and even types of soft cheese and yogurts
I WILL acknowledge that said nomadic goatfuckers DID play a role in developing those. However, they never became core parts of mainstream Han Chinese food, and no one believes it is. Even now, dairy consumption in China is low compared to cultures where it was historically native.

The dishes in question are often considered specific to northern Chinese cuisine, similar to how cha canting ("cha chaan teng") is considered specific to Hong Kong despite its obvious British influences. (And man, oh man, you can literally fucking tell. What have those demons DONE to Hong Kongers' taste buds?!)

Same goes for Saqima, Dezhou braised chicken, and suancai bai rou. They're regional, specific dishes. That would be like saying there's no such thing as Mexican cuisine - or at least that Mexican cuisine is actually Arab cuisine - just because they have one specific dish that was invented by Arabs (tacos al pastor).
Anonymous No.21503663 >>21503721 >>21506817
KILL CCCP MEMBERS THEY ARE NO BETTER THAN COCKROACHES
Anonymous No.21503721
>>21503663
>CCCP
That's the SSSR from the now-extinct Soviet Union, you muppet.
Anonymous No.21506090 >>21506803
>>21502608
Why didn't the Enlightenment begin in Africa?
Anonymous No.21506803
>>21506090
Purely economic factors. Also all of the famous enlightenment people were afriKANGZ. Racist.
Anonymous No.21506817
>>21503663
There is no commie ass cccp anymore
Anonymous No.21507929
>>21503185
Sun Yat-sen is basically China's version of George Washington, and there's a street named after him in every city