Thread 21510910

Whenever I try to look for substitutes for non-alcohol online, I often get snarky responses about how alcohol burns off and adds unique flavor and how I have no culture or whatever.

Honestly, I would be fine cooking with alcohol (I want to make French onion soup some time soon, which traditionally uses sherry or white), but my family (currently living with my mother) is pretty religious and has a strict no-alcohol policy. Whether it cooks out or not is irrelevant; IIRC, according to the Islamic doctrine they follow, you cannot use anything that can intoxicate you in normally consumed quantities, regardless of how much is left off in the end. Heck, it took me a while to convince my dad that I get some balsamic vinegar.

On a side not, I also see in comment sections of recipes that are negative when they point out they don't use alcohol in dishes (which probably matters in something like beef bourguignon, but not every standard beef stew). You do what you want, but it's their life, and maybe they have strict religious families like I do, or someone is a recovering alcoholic and needs to stay away from access 24/7. It's not like we need to add alcohol to make a delicious dish.

That aside, how do I get away with using alcohol as an ingredient? Cooking wine is not an option because they still won't accept it, plus I don't think it's good to use anyways. I don't want to lie to my mom and feed her something that is against her orthodox, that is bad character. Do I just add it to dishes that only my guests and/or I will consume? How do I hide it from her so she doesn't find out?

Sounds like you should tell your family to stop being Muslim. Problem solved.

>>21510910 (OP)
>how do I deceive my mother and father?
HARAM

>>21510910 (OP)
When you cook with forms of alcohol the heat destroys 99% of the actual alcohol from it and you are just left with the flavor. Also tell you family to stop being tarded. If you want to cook things that the recipe requires alcohol just do it. Fuck it. Its a whole bunch of a them problem.

>>21510910 (OP)
I'm pretty sure they have non alcoholic versions of any single drink you'd be needing to cook with. The alcohol itself isn't the flavor it imparts anyways

>>21510925
an option yes, but i will be missing the alcohol-soluble flavors

>>21510910 (OP)
i'm thinking if i should just skip the alcohol for the french onion soup i plan to make for now

as far as i know, it's not as much of a requirement like it is for other dishes like coq au vin or bourgegnion
I've heard in some places in France it's not traditional to use any booze for the soup

>>21510910 (OP)
My dad is muslim, you'll just have to leave it out. Substitutes vary based on what you're making. But honestly it doesn't make much a difference

Assalamu Alaikum,
Cooking will alcohol is halal as long as the alcohol is completely cooked out (no sautéing since that leaves some in) and the alcohol is not made of dates or grapes.
There is no intoxicating quality in a stew cooked for a long time even if you added alcohol at the beginning so it should be halal.
However buying and transporting wine is haram so you are limited here.

>>21510913
fpbp

>>21510913
This.
op your family sound like a bunch of sheeple. Show them a "Family Guy dunks on religion" compilation on YouTube or something.

>>21510910 (OP)
Are you an islamofascist?

Why are all these racists telling OP to stop being a good Muslim.

Muhammed(PBUH) was such a good man that he married his 7 year old neice but waited until she was 9 to have sex with her.

>>21510910 (OP)
You need to put in the effort to de alcholize what you want to use and prove it to your parents
If you manipulate them regardless of cultural or religious constrictions your a fucking animal
Talk to them, show them how it has no alcohol if they don't relent try a different flavor profile without alcohol
My father who was a raging alcoholic refused to eat anything deglazed with xyz alc out of fear of picking up the bottle so i dehydrated wine, sherry, maderia xyz because i wanted him to feel comfortable consuming alcohol byproducts
Do the same anon and put in the fucking effort

>>21510910 (OP)
If your mother was actually religious she'd know alcohol isn't haram but being intoxicated and making a nuisance of yourself is

>>21510910 (OP)
vinegar

If your recipes call for an acidic taste then vinegar (any kind desu, it all mellows out in 99% of dishes) will do just fine. If your recipes call for a yeasty flavor then there are plenty of non-alcoholic beers to try. But gold-standard is if you can educate your family about how alcohol has a really low flash point and how almost all the food we eat anyway has some alcohol in it, then maybe there's hope for you being the chef of the senpai.

>>21510910 (OP)
You can't substitute alcohol. Also especially spirits or fortified wines should be added just before serving so the alcohol doesn't cook off as it's much more aromatic and fragrant. You also need much less of it that way.

The proper substitute will depend on the dish. Deglazing with a good chicken broth instead of white wine for instance. A fancy balsamic vinegar or pomegranate molasses can replace the more fruity flavors found in wines. Spirits like cognac or rum will be harder to replace, and I would just go with a totally different flavor if I had a recipe in mind.

Also, the amount of alcohol remaining in the food after cooking varies quite a lot depending on how it’s being cooked and for how long, like 40% of the original alcohol added can remain. Not enough to get anyone drunk, but the alcohol doesn’t really cook off all the way in many cases.

>>21510913
FPBP

>>21511524
theology from cartoons...
The existence of a Creator is a given, as known by philosophy, the fine tuning, moral law, the genome being a programming language, etc.
Islam is aint it though.

>>21510910 (OP)
Put a jihad on them

>>21511714
>The existence of a Creator is a given, as known by philosophy, the fine tuning, moral law, the genome being a programming language, etc.
lol

>>21510910 (OP)
>Heck, it took me a while to convince my dad that I get some balsamic vinegar.
The Prophet (pbuh) loved vinegar, so there's obviously an exception for using alcohol to create vinegar. If he's such a devout Muslim he should know this.

>>21510910 (OP)
>>21512056
also islamqa says this

>>21510910 (OP)
>cook with alcohol and it burns off so no one will notice
>alla or whatever doesn't exist so nothing happens
I don't see a problem here.

>>21511714
>The existence of a Creator is a given, as known by philosophy, the fine tuning, moral law, the genome being a programming language, etc.
>Islam is aint it though.
That is nace and but doesn't change that the cult's prophet is a warmongering pedophile and the quran explicitly says you are allowed to be a bad person as long as it's aplied to infidels. Not nice.

>>21510910 (OP)
Gruvi sells a white secco that I use a lot for fondue, first while pregnant and now so that I can share with my kid. It's perfectly fine, albeit expensive for what it is..

>>21510932
>i will be missing the alcohol-soluble flavors
But those cook off anyways.

>>21511063
>>21511524
>>21511710

Lmao what fucking janny removed that?!?

>nooo you can’t call someone’s diet retarded it’s wayciss

>>21510910 (OP)
I'm sorry your parents forbid you from cooking good food in their house because of their religious beliefs, but what do you want us to do about it? Move out if you want autonomy, or don't cook with alcohol if you want to continue living in your parents' home.

>>21510910 (OP)
OP, stop living with your parents, problem solved.

No lying, just omit ingredients that offend anyone. Do not sneak them or live by rules as long as you live under their roof.

Do find alternatives. There are "dry" beverages now that omit alcohol. Unlike NA beer, I think they literally do not contain any residual alcohol. Also, other than the fact that alcohol soluble flavors exist, after an alchol burns off, what is left, and what can you do to duplicate that. If it's gin, you're going to look at herbal infusion, from green and dried herbs to juniper berries. What does wine bring to the table, grapes, raisins, berries, mineraly or earthy notes. Samin Nosrat's cookbook focuses on flavor coming from balance of salt, fat, acid, heat. Intuitively improve the flavor of whatever you're making by making a lot of balance to a dish. You seem to be more focused on truly wine-based dishes that you just can't do. The best onion soup you can possibly make may not be a soup with sherry, but maybe it could have cream and cheese like "Walkabout Soup". the fun of a cheese topped crouton can be on any soup, but a sopa azteca tortilla from mexico has crema drizzle and fresh cotija cheese, lardons of pork chicharron, pan fried ancho chili rings, and fresh lime and cilantro. Gourmet enough with that balance.

>>21512419
>after an alchol burns off, what is left, and what can you do to duplicate that
The point of alcohol in cooking is usually the chemical reactions it facilitates, not the flavor of the alcohol itself. We aren't putting vodka in vodka sauce to make it taste like vodka.

What a stupid fucking retarded bait thread.

>>21510910 (OP)
Nobody gives a fuck about your life story, Mahmud. Holy shit.

>>21510910 (OP)
The alcohol is cooked out, dingus, but your fake-ass religion has a stipulation that if you don't know something has alcohol in it then you're clear so just don't fucking tell them. Moron. Had you actually read the fucking textbook to your fake ass religion then you would have known this.

>>21510910 (OP)
deglaze with a little stock instead of wine for a similar practical effect then make sure to throw yourself off a tall building for being such a fag about what strangers on the internet say

>>21510910 (OP)
>Muslim
Subhuman
>Crippling alcholic
Subhuman
Try being more human.

>>21510910 (OP)
Dont bother. Old people are set in their ways. It is a waste of your time and energy. Cook their shitty meal that they love and make something for yourself. I'm just a white American from the midwest USA. My parents are the same. Well done steaks and baked potatoes.

>>21512434
>The point of alcohol in cooking is usually the chemical reactions it facilitates, not the flavor of the alcohol itself. We aren't putting vodka in vodka sauce to make it taste like vodka.
That's the most retarded shit i've ever read.

>>21510910 (OP)
>uses vanilla extract
N-NOOOOO!!!!!!!!! WHAT ABOUT THE ALCOHOL??????
>drinks cough syrup, which frequently is about 15% ABV
NOOOOOO! HARAM!!!!!!!!!!!
I think Allah (swt) (pbuh) would want you to explain that cooking off the alcohol removes most of it. If that side of the family is so kara boga they don't even accept that, then just find another recipe. Maybe chickpeas and some cilantro/herbs tossed in a bit of aioli could work for that, give them something low effort and a bit passive aggressive but still undeniably tasty

>>21510910 (OP)
Just use the alcohol and lie about it

I work in international hotels, we do a lot of this.

Short version, alcohol really isn't necessary in cooking, and only important in a few select dishes. Generally it's used for deglazing, which is a step that you can just skip, or use a bit of water, or depending on what you're cooking vinegar, sugar syrup, some of the sauce you're going to use. Deglazing is just getting the fats you want off the pan.

There is a marginal amount of ethanol in many products which contain both yeasts and sugars, like fruit juice. Did Mohamed (peace be unto him) eat apples? Yes, and the quran endorses the eating of fruits, grapes and pomegranates specifically.
You can't get drunk on fruit juice, so this is generally regarded as a non issue.

Muslims are far more likely to reject the use of manufactured alcohol which is used in preparation, rather than naturally occurring ethanol in orange juice. So the use of isoproply alcohol as a sanitiser, ethanol as a solvent, neither of which are present in the final product because they oxidise and evaporate.... which is why we use them. But this has a non issue from our end, we just use other surface sanitisers and other solvent at a technical level. Nobody should be using wood spirit on our stainless steel benches anyway.
The biggest issue is actually animal welfare, which is very hard for us to verify in the hotel because everything just comes in vacuum bags.

So from a culinary point of view Muslims really aren't missing out on much, and where we use wine or sherry, they can just use non alcoholic products straight up grape juice. Pomegranate molasses.

Other common halal subs:
Fruit pectin is now widely available as a stand in for pork gelatine. Boil all your lemon piths.
Veal is better than pork it's just expensive, and there are many fatty cuts of lamb, Muslims bred special sheep to have excess fat for rendering lard, sheep lard is fine, I've never done a plov with pork lard.

>>21512687
You must make a really shitty vodka sauce

>>21510932
>I have retarded beliefs that don't allow me to do a completely arbitrary thing but I still want to do the arbitrary thing
Guess you're fucked then, aren't you, Yusuf?
Seriously, why even ask for help if you're just going to shit on any suggestion that doesn't actually involve consuming alcohol when you know you can't/won't consume alcohol?
It's like you're agonizing over nothing for the sake of it

Now I remember why we used to hate religion in the 90's

>>21512060
Many muslim schools disagree

>>21513323
I make no shitty vodka sauce at all but just real sauces.