/co/ will never admit it but Wonder Woman is a fucking damned to obscurity and to failure character that should have stopped existing after the 40s along with the others golden age sexual power fantasy superheroes.

Her only value for modern DC is reminding them she is the first female superhero.
She is basically Uncle Sam who exists only to remind you he is the first patriotic superhero.
Where you know he exists but don't care for a comic where he does shit

You can use all the excuses you want
>You should read her own adventures because her team ups have her ooc
I did, they're shit. She doesn't have good comics because no one knows what to give her that's not a ripoff of better heroes.

Don't believe me? You think she could be salvaged? That she could be fixed? That your super original coomer fantasy idea will make people actually buy Wonder Woman comics?
How? How could she be fixed in a way that hasn't been tried already?

>Make her just greek myths based
Already happened, Perez and Wein's run.
Which only existed to give Superman a new love interest because they felt WW only value was to complete a better character.
>Return to the femdom bondage roots
Already done, Morrison's Earth One which failed to be a realistic approach on a matriarch superhero and ended up turning in a feminist lecture.
>What about turning her into Xena? People love Xena!
Already happened, New52 by Johns and Azzarello and poisoned her side characters and Diana
>Return to scifi amazons
Rucka and Orlando did it already, failed
>Make her sexy
Tom King is currently doing that and guess what? Failure.
>Give her fall of Wonder Woman and her Doomsday
Already done 4 TIMES and failed
>Focus on her villains
We had one decade of shilling her villains and still failed

Wonder Woman is a literal C lister superhero who is TREATED as being an A list one while no, she is not and will never be. Shazam deserves to be in the trinity more, if not Aquaman, Green lantern or Flash, who actually have good comics.

dividuals might engage in negative attention-seeking due to a variety of factors, including:
Low self-esteem: Seeking attention can be a way to feel validated or reassured.
Loneliness: The desire for connection and validation can lead to seeking attention from others.
Rejection: Past experiences of rejection can make individuals more prone to seeking attention to avoid similar outcomes.
Narcissism: Individuals with narcissistic tendencies might use attention-seeking behavior to maintain a sense of superiorit

>>148967419 (OP)
She's the girl of the group. That's about all she needs to be isn't it?

another week, another thread by a fag claiming Wondy isn't popular because... she just is, okay?!

not reading all that seethe

>>148967419 (OP)
>Arguing a world-famous character isn't world-famous
What an odd way to waste your time.
Enjoy, I guess.

>>148967419 (OP)
> that should have stopped existing after the 40s along with the others golden age sexual power fantasy superheroes.
You’re right, no more Superman,and Kane probably had some sexual proclivities too so Batman should also be done with.

>>148967525
She isn't famous, at least not to the point where she deserves "iconic" status.

too long didn't read

>>148967590
she's not famous in YOUR little village

>>148967590
and your replacement for her is....Shazam? lmao

>>148967543
That leaves us with Captain Marvel and The Phantom. Not a bad trade off.

>>148967618
No replacement. It's just the DC Duo now.

>>148967514
>>148967525
>>148967616
It's not that she isn't famous, is that her fame is like Uncle Sam's one.
She is a symbol, not a character.
Uncle Sam's symbol is being the symbol of USA, you wouldn't care about his personality or powers, just his symbol.
Wonder Woman's symbol is being the girl of the group, that's it and no other personality or power needed, that's how people see her, no ammount of comics or movies will change it because even for the slum child in the philippines she is the "baby's first female superhero".
So she is an idea, not a character that needs comics.
Like Uncle Sam gets uses by lefties and righties for "vote this guy at the elections" you have Wonder Woman being used as a symbol of being a strong female because she is the FIRST thing people think upon hearing female superhero.
For example Wonder Woman cleaning service doesn't make references to Themyscira, no reference to her being a clay golem or a bastard of zeus neither mention her villains or her invisible jet.
Just like with Uncle Sam badges he isn't in the freedom fighters or fighting Overman, he is just there looking cool.
Pic related is Wonder Woman's symbol, not the female warrior that fights monsters and mad scientists.

>>148967899
okay uncle sam schizo

>>148967899
>this guy thinks Uncle Sam was created as a comic book character

>>148967419 (OP)
You stupid.

>>148968085
sexoooo

Women don't work as superheroes.
Superheroics are a strictly male fantasy.
Women will never not look silly trying to be cool and tough.
Nobody will respect a man saved by a woman.
Nobody will take a villain defeated by a woman seriously.
You may not like it, but that's the truth.

>>148967419 (OP)
>Her only value for modern DC is reminding them she is the first female superhero.
>She is basically Uncle Sam who exists only to remind you he is the first patriotic superhero.
Neither of these are correct.

>148968363
>incel thinks his opinion on women is in any way relevant or worthy of consideration
no (You)'s for you today, try better ragebait next time

>>148968085
always love seeing this guy's art

>>148967419 (OP)
Then why do you keep making threads about her

>>148967419 (OP)
Don't care, still would

>>148969070
it's just an excuse to have a Wonder Woman general

>>148967419 (OP)
I like her, so fuck you

Is OP mental?

>>148967629
I didn't know Carol was around back then

>>148969478
>KT confirmed working on the crossovers
It's finally time Carol x (Absolute) Diana bros

>>148969478
He is clearly talking about the M. F. Enterprises Captain Marvel, the one of Split powers

The fact that all the replies are
>shut up she's sexy
>incel
>you're dumb
proves OP's point

>>148967419 (OP)
How are Perez and Rucka's runs failures? They were pretty solid.

>>148969785
what point? that WW should be replaced by his favorite hero because of non-existent reasons? what the hell is up with that Uncle Sam comparison lmao

>>148967543
Huge fan of off brand erotica from famous artists. Wally Wood has a really good collection.

>>148969785
shut up she's sexy, incel, you're dumb

>>148969963
Was gonna say, pretty sure Perez and Rucka are like top 3 WW writers alongside Marston himself (sorry Gail, you're still a very close #4 though!)

Glazing Batman in her own comics doesn't help either

>>148970636
that's just an ugly curse afflicting DC for decades now, glazing Batman for no reason

>>148970653
>glazing Batman for no reason
He's literally their most profitable character.

>>148967419 (OP)
>REEEEEEEE
Yawn. Wonder Hotness thread? Wonder Hotness thread.

>>148970678
I said "for no reason", meaning I'm referring to the instances where it was unnecessary.

>>148967597
What is she supposed to be doing to the sharks? Her arms are too far away for it to be clanging her bracelets.

>>148970636
>Maxie Zeus meets Wonder Woman in a Batman/WW event
>He becomes the leader of a cult that worship Gotham demons
Uh

>>148970860
She should punch my dick

>>148970860
Best wonder woman movie, the fights were great

>>148967419 (OP)
>Wonder Woman is a fucking damned to obscurity and to failure character
She's the most famous, recognizable and successful superheroine in existence
>Shazam deserves to be in the trinity more, if not Aquaman, Green lantern or Flash
None of the characters you listed is even remotely as popular or successful as Wonder Woman, Shazam especially. You call her a C lister but think a literal D-lister should take her place?

>>148971827
To be fair, Aquaman has comparable pop cultural recognition as Wonder Woman and he also has the greek mythology angle as well

>>148971155

>>148970636
>why don't you use the lasso?
>I don't know, it might not work on them (we may never know)
what a retarded story that was

>>148967419 (OP)
You're right! I'll NEVER admit to that

>>148971749
Imagine her fan mail haha, Supes and Bats would mostly get "wow you're my hero" while Wondy would get dic pics and requests like "can I be your slave" and "please come over and step on my balls"

>>148971944
aquaman's "pop culture recognition" is being that one retard who talks to fish and thinks that makes him a superhero

>>148973072
>Wondy would get dic pics
Of her own futa dick right?

>>148970636
Someone needs to kill the batcuck

>>148967525
>>Arguing a world-famous character isn't world-famous

She is literally not world famous at all. She's America-famous. Nobody outside US gives a single shit about WW.
>b-b-b-b-but she had a movie!
That everyone already forgot about. She had zero cultural impact.

WW's fame is like when Americans talk about "the global videogame crash" of the 80's that was, in reality, an American videogame crash and went totally unnoticed in Europe and Japan. WW is only famous in US and that's it.

>>148973127

Aquaman's movie made way more money than Wonder Woman's, therefore he's more known than Wonder Woman (nobody has heard of WW outside the first movie).

>>148973313
Wonder Woman cleaning service dude

>>148973127
Yeah and it works
As Aquaman in BatB taught to DC the meme status of Aquaman is beneficial to him and to his fans and haters because both want to buy it to laugh with him or of him and that's good
For this reason Aquaman had never had a bad run or a run that didn't make good sales for DC
N52 Aquaman ranked near the maximus success of Batman
You see? Aquaman being silly iconic is what made him relevant enough to compete with Batman, that's why Aquaman fans will never stop loving silly badassness that boost sales and completely dwarfs the others runs

>>148973285
see >>148967616

>>148971749
Same

>148968363
>Women don't work as superheroes.
They do for male gaze
>Superheroics are a strictly male fantasy.
A male fantasy is women being hot and loving men
>Women will never not look silly trying to be cool and tough.
It's what men want because it's sexy
>Nobody will respect a man saved by a woman.
It means the woman is working while you relaxing playing games, another male fantasy that men don't like to remember
>Nobody will take a villain defeated by a woman seriously.
It's the male fantasy as well, a woman defeating a villain and still wanting to have sex with a man
>You may not like it, but that's the truth.
Lol

>>148975570
Yeah I’m starting to think the OP is gay.

I love superheroines!

>>148967590
MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU NOT KNOW OF THE FUCKING LIVE ACTION 70S WONDER WOMAN SHOW?!!

I don't even particularly care for Wonder Woman myself but that show is iconic as fuck, up there with Adam West Batman and the 70s Hulk show

>>148973242
They already killed Batman like 15 years ago

>>148975938
He got better

>>148967419 (OP)

Only version of Wonder Woman that has ever been good was the one who burst into tears because she couldn't cook for her man. And that version is never coming back.

>>148967419 (OP)
>Shazam deserves to be in the trinity more, if not Aquaman, Green lantern or Flash, who actually have good comics.
Funnily enough, the trinity originally was The Flash, Green Lanter and Wonder Woman.
Wondy got screwed when she was moved to the world's finest duo.
And Aquaman is used as the 4th member when they try to expand the trinity.

>>148976613
fun fact, Wonder Woman didn't have a team up with Batman or Superman until 1968, when she was depowered and wearing white

>>148967419 (OP)
>Wonder Woman is a fucking damned to obscurity
As long as coomers exist, so does she.

>>148976831
Oh, did Wondy team up with other heroes before? She shared a magazine with Wildcat and Terrific.

maybe she should get a male villain she lusts after
he wouldn't be evil, just commit harmless crimes, like Catwoman
and we all know who it would be

>>148977258
pretty sure she did with Alan Scott or Jay Garrick yeah

>>148975570
it always makes me laugh when so called "straight" incels are extremely averse to women and talk about male fantasy... is their fantasy just about fucking dudes then?

>>148977267
>and we all know who it would be
pic unrelated

>>148977267
who?

>>148977267
Hercules

>>148977267
Angel Man is for Donna Troy. They should be married by now.

>>148976433
Based.
Source?

>>148980097
It's on filename

It's cute that some of you think your little town outside of America matters when it comes to cultural relevance. Americans don't give a shit if Wonder Woman isn't popular wherever the hell you are. Americans barely have a scope outside their own county. Yet Wondie is popular through the whole country.

Wondy is popular throughout the world, especially once they redesigned her outfit to be less about the America flag. not that it matters since Captain America is super popular too but leaning more into her Amazonian warrior heritage certainly had an effect

>>148980489
The tv show Diana still has the american flag.
And her suit having the american flag is a joke, Kanigher and Perez dropped the eagle

>>148980752
The eagle was dropped in the early 80s so she would have a trademarked logo for merchandise.

>>148980489
>>148980752
nobody cares about this, this is dumb formerly twitter discourse
and the WW logo was in 1982, neither Kanigher nor Perez

>>148980752
Silver Age is still eagle, Bronze Age is W.
But I'm sure you did your best with a google search.

>>148975570
>>148975641
>>148977885
Coomers who have nothing but sex on their minds ruined this site, holy shit.

>>148981032
>no rebuttal
>proceeds to go off on a tangent about muh coomers
I accept your surrender, incel

>>148981049
Nah, it's a well-deserved rebuttal for reducing everything to "muh sex".

>>148981084
Well muh sex good so you're wrong, sorry!

>>148967419 (OP)
I will happily admit it. They hated you because you told the truth.

>>148981309
What truth? That Wonder Woman is a pop cultural icon like Uncle Sam for everyone?

>>148967419 (OP)
Her comics sell like shit but her merch sells very well, YOU BITCH!

Did no one from Mattel, the filmation series and the Netflix series of She-Ra realize they copied so much from Wonder Woman?

Big Bad overlord Hordak = Ares
Angsty catgirl rival Catra = Cheetah
Evil sorceress Shadow Weaver = Circe
Brutish big woman Scorpia = Giganta

>>148982086
Did She-Ra have an evil little person with mind powers?

>>148967419 (OP)
Is this good?

Truth:

Wonder Woman and Aquaman are iconic and awesome and have great comics.

>>148982794
Not really. I think Grant made Steve Trevor black. No.

>>148982794
get familiar with Wondy comics and especially Marston's original stuff first, read this only after all that

>>148982739
Imp

>>148982987
Based, I hope Gunn takes alot of inspiration from it then

>>148967543
Someone dump this

>>148973072
Would she like that ?

>>148981273
sexo

>>148982794
Diana was sexy, that's pretty much it. The story goes completely off the rails in the last book.

>>148982987
It made him black to HUMILIATE HIM, he got cucked

>>148983933
More like she got fucked……….AND BLACKED!

>>148983957
She did not and he did not, she femdom'd him and treated him like a dog.
That's femcolonized

>>148967419 (OP)
isn't this exact thread made every week

>>148984146
God I wish that were me

>>148983717
Meh, it would probably get old after awhile.

>>148967519
>Muscletranny shit
Yuck! Post Wonder Loli instead.

>>148980946
bronze age started in the 70s

>>148984300
t. Tom King

>>148967419 (OP)
I sometimes think the problem is the perception that Wonder Woman doesn't fit an archetype in the same way Batman/Superman does, aside from being a girl. But the more I think about it, a lot of female characters don't fit an archetype so end up as so many different things. Now this is a perception, and the reason why I make that caveat is because you could describe Batman/Superman in similar ways but Wonder Woman for people is just a mess.

People get Batman, lost his parents, trained, became the Dark Knight. People get Wonder Woman, lost his world, raised by nice couple, became the Man of Steel. But Wonder Woman feels more fixed, with the Gods and mythology stuff and all the rest. Even someone like Thor at Marvel can still have the "son learning responsibility to become King one day" type stories. Wonder Woman is the ambassador of her people to the man's world but all this other stuff they have tried over the years (as have a lot of people) but unlike those other characters where you cut through to the core you just can't with her?

A normie gets Batman and Superman to an extent they will never get her.

You ever notice how the only comic threads we're allowed to have now are trash bait threads overly negative and borderline TORtanic /v/ tier? Fuck, /v/ has better comic discussions than we do.

>>148986523
>People get Wonder Woman, lost his world,
*Superman
Fucked up there

>>148986523
there's nothing to get, fuck character driven shit, I want cool stories

>>148986523
>Isolated Princess from a strange land decides to help mankind in trouble and discovers the world
Maybe it's less poignant when it's not tied to a war when we need to believe in a savior but these are 80 year old characters, why do we need more "stories that get into their core"?

>>148986620
>there's nothing to get, fuck character driven shit, I want cool stories
The problem is people are not inspired to write cool stories for characters they don't get.

>>148986696
>why do we need more "stories that get into their core"?
I think you missed my point. I am saying that because Wonder Woman lacks an archetype for many, that means people disconnect with her in a way. It is a perception issue. Most superhero characters are like this because they have changed so much over the years they are practically completely different to how they started.

There are stories people point to with Batman and Superman such as Frank Miller's Batman work which they see as being that character. When people recommend Wonder Woman stories there is nothing that has ever hit those same heights that breaks a character down in a way to speak to an audience.

All I am doing is trying to answer OP's point:
>/co/ will never admit it but Wonder Woman is a fucking damned to obscurity and to failure character that should have stopped existing after the 40s along with the others golden age sexual power fantasy superheroes.
Despite being an icon and a symbol the core of who Wonder Woman is still remains a mystery to people because of this messiness that other big mainstream characters don't have.

I'm not saying we need another bland origin story where Ares is the villain.

>>148986829
>in a way to speak to an audience.
as large an audience*

>>148986829
>When people recommend Wonder Woman stories there is nothing that has ever hit those same heights that breaks a character down in a way to speak to an audience.
Because they only know her from post-Crisis
Her "problem" is that she peaked early and people dismiss old stuff

>>148986917
Then it seems like she's done for then and you're agreeing with OP?

>>148967543
>>148967419 (OP)
Who are the other golden age sexual power fantasy superheroes?

>>148967543
>Batman should also be done with.
I mean Fredric Wertham literally said Batman was gay with Robin at the time.
>the Batman type of story may stimulate children to homosexual fantasies, of the nature of which they may be unconscious
>only someone ignorant of the fundamentals of psychiatry and of the psychopathology of sex can fail to realize a subtle atmosphere of homoeroticism which pervades the adventures of the mature 'Batman' and his young friend Robin

>>148986980
Phantom Lady

>>148986998
>Loving your son means you're gay because I studied a joke profession in which I get to say retarded shit and call other stupid if they don't agree with my retarded shit
I'm happy that kike is in hell

>>148986523
>>148986829
>>148986964
As someone that read many of the so called BIGGEST arc stories they did with Wonder Woman, her core is literally Warrior for Peace.
She represents wanting everyone to came in peace in a Stockholm syndrome like way. She forgave Cheetah and tried her best to save her even after she killed and tortured people, because she believes everyone is good and that goodness needs to take over.
In the Golden Age she was the master of an island for the rehab of villains and of women victim of bad men.
She represent love and compassion beyond reason.

>>148987282
>Warrior for Peace.
And yet she has also been pushed as the most violent of the trinity, snapping Max Lord's neck etc or giving her a sword to fight with constantly.

>>148986964
>Then it seems like she's done for then
we just need to make people stop being retarded

>>148987313
As OP said, crossover Diana is very different than Solo Diana because in team books everyone gets stereotyped to fit one cardboard description and their powers either nerfed or bullshit wanked.
Reason why GLs in books can't even make a punch and Batman can hack alien spaceships.

Solo Diana biggest arcs are when she is full of compassion for the worst and even forgiving Dr Psycho, for the Max thing...she had a time where she discussed with herself if there was another way or how she failed her role as WW, then in the next team book she got back at murderous cunt so fuck it

I feel like Diana doesn't get much exposure outside of comics. Superman and Batman get movies and tv shows, hell Supergirl had a TV show in recent years, they just need someone who cares enough about her to do a good movie or show.

>>148986535
>Fuck, /v/ has better comic discussions than we do.
Don't lie, they don't even read comics and act like they're actual nerds of comic lore. And no, not in the same way of /co/ comiclets, /v/ fake comic nerds are worse

>>148988104
Her video game got cancelled...

>>148988139
The fact that I forgot that even existed kinda proves my point.

>>148988104
WB doesn't have any faith on her, so usually they will just hire any average writer, or at best they hire popstar writers who don't understand her to write her, thinking the writer's fanbase will be bigger than hers and he will have "the magic touch" to make her cool or something cough cough tom king and grant morrison.

Then the cycle repeats

>This came about because I wanted to do a World War II story with Wonder Woman, because I initially had a pitch with DC Access to do a Wonder Woman series based in World War II," Lukic tells CBR.

>"This was before the first Wonder Woman movie came out; while we were pitching it, we found out that they were doing a World War I take on Wonder Woman. And I thought it would be good to do this as a series, but the development didn't last long because they didn't think Wonder Woman had legs, not until the movie came out that they realized 'Oh shit, this is a moneymaker.' So I just took some of the ideas that we had for that series and applied them towards this film."

>>148987484
Or make better stories.

>>148988199
They really don't, the only reason why I even consider her part of the trio is because of the Justice League cartoons and because DC says so.

>>148988199
Outdated list, but so much Marvel and DC, and most of the Marvel women only got popular due to the MCU, a couple of indie girls, and then there's Sailor Moon who sticks out like a fucking sore thumb.
https://www.gamesradar.com/best-female-superheroes/

Diana needs life injected into her as a whole after WW84, and what better way to do that then a fun crossover? Especially with something like Sailor Moon?

>>148967419 (OP)
My biggest issue with Wonder Woman is that they really don't lean too much into how inhuman she is. She's not a flesh and blood human born normal she's made of divine godly clay blessed with abilities not even the other Amazons have. And yet Wonder Woman is mean to be the mascot of Feminism who teaches women how to rise up and be equal to men? Doesn't even hold up in fiction. And stories try to treat her as a normal being in society which is ludicrous.

And her villains legit suck. I hate how her most famous villains are public domain characters from mythology which makes her seem like a badly constructed concept. Besides mythology her only actual villains that are known are Cheetah and Giganta. Everything else is trash. I've seen a better rogues gallery in Ben Ten or Ninja Turtles.

>>148967519
fourth post best post

>Wonder Chads just ignore the OP and start posting best girl
based

>>148988588
For that you need to hire a developer like the one doing Marvel fighting souls but good luck with that since DC doesn't do many of these collaborations. Marvel has humiliated DC because they made their heroes flexible.

>>148988838
I want to lick her toes

my favorite Wonder Woman stuff are
Golden Age
TV show
2006 relaunch setting (not so much the actual writing)
Azzarello's run

I believe Perez' intentions were sincere but I'm sick and tired of it being treated as gospel, and it ruined many things for the character. It was never that good either. Plus Hippolyta falls in love with her rapist.

>>148988117
There is no lie, faggot. Comic video game threads are actually decent

>>148986523
when Superman is a salt of the earth champion of the opressed and a cosmic explorer and a scientist and a flying brick brawler nobody cares
but when Wonder Woman is so much as presented as being from a place that can make jets it's "contradicting her background"
it's fucking bullshit

>>148989671
Because the invisible jet is lame. The problem is so much of WW's baggage is lame now.

>>148986535
>Fuck, /v/ has better comic discussions than we do
yeah once every 6 months maybe

>>148988117
97% of /co/ doesn't read comics. The 3% percent that do are people who bullshit their way through conversations and are usually wrong because they haven't actually read many comics or read comics years ago. So all these conversations are vague bait on grand topics with no real meat or details over and over again. The most pointless discussions. I've had people in Fantastic Four threads tell me they read Kirby run and then know nothing about a bunch of shit that happened during it. Stuff like that. It is pointless.

>>148989509
I remember reading this for the first time, this shit was so ass

>>148967419 (OP)
>I did, they're shit
your poor taste does not equate to worldwide opinion sadly

>>148967419 (OP)
She died because all her villains are dogshit and she has nowhere to go.

>>148990434
Now imagine that but worse, that's /v/.
They stopped reading comics in the 90s and still tried to say Flash isn't that fast

>>148989671
>>148990372
Earth One had scifi amazons so the invisible jet wasn't lame.
But now Tom King has the invisible jet as badass and that series is a success so it's all fire now

>>148991483
I love her villains.

>>148986535
we have better vidya threads the same way /v/ has better comic threads

>>148989530
>decent
Lmao.
/v/fags knowledge of comic threads is Injustice, they legit think Superman kills and Batman doesn't and Wonder Woman has no name

>>148981655
Yeah, this is what's ultimately important. She's an extremely well-selling merchandise symbol. Who cares about comics?

>Wonder Woman is not on the Mt. Rushmo-

>>148992340
>She's an extremely well-selling merchandise symbol.
So she is LIKE UNCLE SAM!

>>148992678
shut the fuck up retard
uncle sam is not a comic book character, imbecile
I hope it's bait or else you're too stupid to live in civilized society

>>148967419 (OP)
I like Wondy.

>>148992700
Hi

>>148992700
>He doesn't know Earth 10
Sad

>>148967597
>>148969150
>>148993180
Safe horny

>>148967597
This is safe horny

bump

>>148994216
>Safe horny
Why does it need BBC and Scat to be unsafe? Fuck off

>>148995040
Something put in way that doesn't put emphasis on their sex appeal is safe horny, i'm sorry. that doesn't mean it's bad, it's just safe horny.

>>148995484
And stupid me remember when we all agreed a character drawn to be sexy isn't sexy but just a Rob Liefeld tier whore while a character that's casually sexy is actually sexy.
AND BOOB JIGGLE ISN'T EMPHASIS ON SHAPE?

>>148990434
that's how discussion works anon, if you were fresh off the source material the last thing you would be doing is asking for other peoples' opinions on it.

>>148967419 (OP)
I think you're all just faggots who would rather argue about books you don't read than read them in silence

>>148996979
When something is good there is no point discuss it, cept for All Star Superman

You know, this is the problem of
>Marvel's Wonder Woman
Which simply means
>The first female you think about in this franchise"
Which is why Wonder Woman isn't a character, she is an idea.
And that idea is "a female" literally the first female character.
You all say it's MJ or Thor or Captain America or Captain Carol or Wanda or Black Panther or Storm, but these answers never work because everyone think that what's popular about Wonder Woman is either being myth based adventures, warrior of honor adventures, sexy lady adventures or simply a popular female character.
Because Wonder Woman is NOTHING outside being the first female, everything she has of myth warrior or peace adventures can be told with the other myth magic warriors characters like Aquaman, Shazam, Green Lantern, Zatanna, Aztek.
Her only value for modern DC is reminding them she is the first female superhero.
She is basically Uncle Sam who exists only to remind you he is the first patriotic superhero.
Where you know he exists but don't care to see a comic where he fights with people you don't give a shit about.

So that's why there are multiple marvel's Wonder Woman, because marvel has a lot of "popular female character" but Wonder Woman is the first people think about not caring what her character is, it's not the adventures or the myths or the amazons, it's simply being a popular woman.

>>148998676
Maybe you can figure this out by removing ones who best match DC heroines with a well-defined niche and then the remainder is Marvel's Wonder Woman.

>>148988273
And you expect them from any D and C lister, but Wonder Woman is treated as an A lister and yet no one knows her as an A lister like they would know Batman and Superman outside movies

>>149000243
They knew her as an iconic merchandise symbol.

>>148998676
>Uncle Sam retard copypasted his other post

>>148998676
None of this is wrong and this is the worst bolland cover I've ever seen

>>148999488
>>148998676
Wait a second, these are copy pasted from another thread.

>>148967419 (OP)
Why do you keep reposting this thread?

>>148967419 (OP)
Just make a new character. Stop trying to ''''fix''''' old ones.

>>148993180

>>148982794
Eh... It's Morrison's obligatory "Girls rule, amirite?" project and he thought he'd be cheeky by going the full Marston inspired femdom but it really doesn't work other than setting up an Injustice setting where Wondy is the one that takes over the world.

>>149001404
Stealth wonder woman general

>>149002261
Does one even need stealth?

>>149002633
Generals are kind of forbidden.

Has anyone read Trinity's solo? Is it any good?

>>149002261
>>149002699
>wheredoyouthinkweare.jpg

>>148997105
/co/ heritage desu

>>148992700
you're out of your element, donny
go do your summer reading assignments

>>149001472
Why not just make wonder woman Donna of Troy and give her a 20ish patriotic grand daughter who calls herself lady liberty.
Have her fight the Amazon's to become the new wonder woman and make her an actually normal woman.

>>148982794
It's Grant Morrison writing a woman, what do you think?

>you now remember when Azzarello made the Amazons a roving band of sex pirates
Just incredibly based.

>>149002261
If you're actually OP then I gotta respect the hustle, I guess.

>>149003998
Has Chiang ever done explicit porn comics? His art style makes me diamonds.

>>148988838
yes

>>149003998
People hated this for being too much even for greeks but greeks would have approved it since for them Amazons were everything they disliked about barbarians and Ares lapdogs

>>149003998
This shits so ass.

The one that put the hat on is cute, though.

>>148967419 (OP)
Adria’s ass will save WW

>>149004078
>>149004514
Greek teen WW is best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH4YqvPLYQ8

>>149004078
>Gal Gadot face
dropped

>>149005269
She could be Yara

>>149004514
Only ones who hated it were dykes and their simps. Anyone else would think it's metal.

>>149005592
too soon, probably never

>>149003998
Azzarello always said he only read Golden Age Wonder Woman
online Wonder Woman fans think she was created in 1987
That's the disconnect, that's why they didn't even know where things like the berserk rage came from when it was used throughout the entire pre-Crisis
And now they're out there spouting that Amazons keep spawning from the "wheel of souls" since 1987 and not since 2021, because they don't actually even read any comics except current

>>148967419 (OP)
>stopped existing after the 40s

But I liked a good majority of her comics. And her tv show and movie were fun.

>>148967419 (OP)
I didn't read your OP, but I just wanted to say I just like watching Linda Carter's bouncing boobies.

>>149005739
it's a classic

>>149005613
>>149005688
Problem is, he used something that would work well for the Bana Mighdall or one of the bad Amazons from golden age, using the Themyscira one that are PEACE AND LOVE is asshole behavior

>>149005929
those are the same Amazons, from their country called Amazonia before they went to Paradise Island

>>149005613
it's not, it goes against what we know and adore about the Themyscirans since it's just another attempt to make something "realistic" and "gritty" by adding lazy subversions on established norms.

>>149005953
>Themyscirians
another post-Crisis babby

>>148967419 (OP)
She's currently the most controversial character in their line up
>attractive woman
>wearing sexy clothes
>migrant
>who believes in the promises of the Founding Fathers and in stepping on the dicks of men
>also is known to engage in furry play

They could make millions of her right now.

>>149005962
ok and? things being different pre-Crisis doesn't automatically make them the better or superior choice. New 52 was full of retarded subversions for the sake of subversion, it reeks of trying to modernize something by juts making it edgy. no wonder people who defend those decisions also adore Snyder's writing.

>>148976556
He got the full Ramsey experience.

>>149005981
cope
there were far more damaging changes in post-Crisis holding Wonder Woman back to this day thanks to you chucklefucks

>>149005688
My favorite part is when a piece of media is called not accurate to the comics that were produced after it, making you wonder if you're talking to intelligent beings

>>149005945
They're all the same Amazon, just the Bana Mighdall are the amazons that went in Man's World and became a warmonger nation.
An offshots like the daxamites for kryptonians

>>149006153
those Amazons capturing men as slaves are the same Amazons that went to Paradise Island
I am informed about post-Crisis shit, I read it

>>149006153
Everything about WW side characters gets given to Diana and her amazons.
Artemis is Themysciran and they also have a fat amazon they repurposed as an Etta Candy, so the Bana personality of man hating warriors is given to them too

>>148970822
The DC superhero girls art style looks like it comes from a disgusting fetish comic

>>148994216

>>149005425

>>148984675
Die, die pedo scum. Wondy would feed you into a tree shredder.

>>149006389
Or from the banned horse show.
And in both cases it's a style that pleases me.

>>149006012
No

>>149006614
is that meant to be Sara something, the chick who plays Eve in the new movie

>>149008653
Look like an AIfied Alexandra Daddario

>>149008653
>>149008670
looks nothing like either one of them

>>149009076
those eyes and the chin mole are definitely closer to Sara Sampaio

>>149009076
Well she looks also like Dove Cameron from Disney channels show

>>148967419 (OP)
Catwoman beats her in comics quality, the bar is not that high this days but if quality mattered, she should be shilled as much as Harley Quinn in my biased and correct opinion.

>>149005759
I just wanna gwab onto those bweasts

>>149011072
and woll em awoooooooound

>>149011083
and awoooooooooooound

>>149011093
huh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh

>>149011072
>>149011083
>>149011093
>>149011112
kys

>>149011072
>>149011083
>>149011093
>>149011112

>>149010151
>Fartacular Harley Quinn consumer wrote this to have a Fart comic depicting Catwoman

>>148975719
Still the best interpretation of WW out there.

>>148980067
Comic book captions in a live action show will never not be hilarious.

>>148967899
>even for the slum child in the philippines she is the "baby's first female superhero".

Actually the Filipino kid would view Darna (created by Filipino comic book guy Mars Ravelo in 1950) as "baby's first female superhero." Besides comics, that character has starred in countless movies and at least three TV series.

>>148967419 (OP)
>Her only value for modern DC is keeping the typical Justice League lineup from looking like a gay 70's band
Fix'd.

>>148967899
The same applies to any famous character, see Goku Mexican fast food.

>>148967419 (OP)
>she is the first female superhero

There were over 30 or so female superheroes published before Wonder Woman, depending on how you count. Some of the better-known ones include: Hawkgirl, Phantom Lady, Black Cat, Miss America, and Bulletgirl. There was even one called "Amazon the Mighty Woman." WW wasn't first, but she was more popular and more durable than most.

>>149013299
is there any other?
it's better than a narrator

>>149013304
but everyone there knows she's a Wonder Woman copy

>>148967419 (OP)
>How could she be fixed in a way that hasn't been tried already?

Just go back to the original concept. She's not a vigilante or a conventional superhero; she's a guardian angel. Instead of punishing the wicked, she tries to turn the bad guy into a good guy, or help the victim stand up for themselves. She's not an "eye for an eye" gal; she's a "Love your enemies and turn the other cheek" gal.

In other words, she changes people's lives for the better, and that provides the human interest. She risks her life to achieve this greater good, and that provides the heroism and the suspense.

>>149013610
>but everyone there knows she's a Wonder Woman copy

But she wasn't. Ravelo, the creator, was inspired by the Captain Marvel/SHAZAM! comics, not Wonder Woman.

>>148977267
I think it says a lot everyone beyond Ares, Circe, and Cheetah are immediate literal who tier and even those 3 compared to Bruce and Clark's are very much not on the same level

>>148982794
Genuinely upsetting because I loved the art but the actual writing fucking sucks

>>149016183
it's probably got the most gorgeous art I've seen in a Diana comic ever

>>149013304
That's like to say italian kids would think at that italian Spider-Man tv show rather than Spider-Man Peter Parker when thinking at Spider-Man.
It's their version but not the one they know FOR REAL like the original

>>149015865
You know precisely what he meant.
It's like the "She-Ra isn't Wonder Woman, she becomes a superhero like Shazam" or Sentry being more Shazam than Superman when it's clearly Superman reconstructed like Shazam.
She is another Wonder Woman reconstructed with Shazam powers like Blue Beetle is a Spider-Man constructed with Green Lantern things

>>149016102
Now that Tom King's WW is breaking sales we surely will get more of Sovereign right?

>>149017196
ew, not even close to Dobson

>>149018672
nope, not saying Dobson is bad in any way but Paquette's art on earth One is better

>>149018696
if you like retarded designs and people looking like psychos

>>149018702
Diana literally has a man-face in the image you posted

>>149018301
The current Trinity book got didn't make it past 10 in most bought comics

>>149018720
It's a strong jaw

Happy Father's Day

>>148991483
To be fair literally no female superhero has good villains.

>>149020167
Ehem Jean Grey ehem

>>149020246
I said having no villains, not being a villain.

>>149020216
Why is Supes so submissive here? Did Diana peg him into submission?

>>149020113
The only thing I really about the "Zeus daughter" origin, is that it protects her from "golem" misinformation/interpretation.

>>148967419 (OP)
>Which only existed to give Superman a new love interest because they felt WW only value was to complete a better character.
I can't believe retards like you inhabit the same board as the rest of us

>>149005980
Yes, for a comic posted on this board. But for boomers? If the 90's BAD Girl craze is any indication the line is scantily clad athletic women with recognizable weapon does action stuff. Anything more than that is considered "weird".

>>149005980
>who believes in the promises of the Founding Fathers and in stepping on the dicks of men
hot

>>148967419 (OP)
>/co/ will never admit it but Wonder Woman is a fucking damned to obscurity
Because reality shows otherwise. She's had way WAAAAY too much exposure in media to be obscure. She had a television show in the 70s that nobody forgot about, she was a prominent lead in every Justice League cartoon that's existed and had two films devoted to her. There is no way in hell she can be called obscure today or at any point in the last 40 years.

>>149020611
Once again Perez did it best by having the golem origin being the soul of the first baby girl that was killed given a clay body by Hippolyta and the gods

>>149020288
Pink kryptonite

>>149021611
these threads occur regularly on /co/ and even if you put aside the obvious ragebait nature of them, it speaks a lot that she's popular but people keep casting doubt on that purely because of the lack of sufficient animated/live-action adaptations the same way Batman or Superman do

>>149020611
golem misinformation?

>>149021611
>>149021820
>Normie understanding of what popularity means
Lol
Wonder Woman is meme popular, she has presence as you said in OTHER shows.
She doesn't have a TAS or a videogame or a trilogy. She is a side character at best.
And her 70s show is considered like a CW show now, nothing that makes people look at it back

>>149009569
While the show got Diana’s characterization down.
Why didn’t they include easy to adapt villains like Priscilla Rich Cheetah or Angle man?

>>149021638
oh yeah, that's gonna stick
specially because it was an unborn child and you don't want to mess with that topic anymore

>>149021916
>And her 70s show is considered like a CW show now, nothing that makes people look at it back
Because people are retarded

>>149021916
>She doesn't have a TAS or a videogame or a trilogy
And she's still an A-lister
Based as fuck

>>149022485
So you agree with OP point? That she is treated as an A lister despite being D?

>>149022485
thats what im sayin, she's an A-lister throughand through but people have the audacity to run their mouths about her supposed "obscurity" just because she doesn't have a Wonder Woman TAS or a billion actresses playing her in live-action

>>149022509
no, she IS an A-lister, not "treated" like one

>>149022509
She's an A-lister treated like garbage by WB

>>149022517
>>149022551
>>149022562
Side character for A listers

>>149022680
but enough about Flash

>>149022680
She's DC's Minnie Mouse. No one really cares that much Minnie, there aren't too many stories with massive appeal that you can tell about Minnie, but Minnie's image moves a ton of merch.

>>149022347
It keeps sticking even with all attempts by Kanigher, Azzarello and Johns to bury it.
Soul of unborn child being reincarnated are a topic that divides both christians and prochoicers

Notice how Wondy's "fans" don't have much of a counter argument to OP besides HEHE TITTIES.

Now that I mention it, you can strip away any sex appeal to Batman and Superman and they're still good characters. People love the old Superman cartoons or Adam West's Batman. Do it to Wonder Woman and literally everyone would stop caring about her.

Tom King hate going crazy on twt right now, it's hilarious.

>>149023893
What happened?

Wonder Woman’s only problem is being obscure to begin with. Well done stories are still well done stories.

Her tv show in the 1970’s continues to be her prime in public consciousness

Having ONE truly bad sequel appearance and the universe around her collapsing is what fucked the modern gal gadot Wonder Woman, and she wasn’t even good at the role

>>149022680
>>149022485

Forget 'a-lister' Wonder Woman is in the S-list of all superheroes. She's probably the fourth most well known and famous superheroes ever following Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman.
She's this popular despite only having two major films (only one good film) and one decades-old tv show. She's awesome.

>>149024280
It's all on the strength of a really good character design that no one's ever been able to repeat since, and not through lack of trying.

>>149023504
they changed it even for the "brought it back" stuff, so no, it doesn't stick
the clay origin sticks, the other stuff is unnecessary overcomplication no one outside of her minuscule readership will know about
>Kanigher
dumbass, this stuff is an entirely post-Crisis detail

>>149021960
It was uncommon for superhero TV shows to use comic book villains until Smallville. With the exception of Batman and Superboy, dating all the way back to George Reeves. Only a couple of cases for The Flash and Lois and Clark.
Even Super Friends only started having supervillains from the comics later.
They still had Baroness Von Gunther and Fausta Grables because the first episodes were direct adaptations of the early issues of Sensation Comics and Wonder Woman.
Also, Angle Man is not that easy to adapt on a low budget, and he only became how he's known for now when the show was already on.

>>149023938
>Having ONE truly bad sequel appearance and the universe around her collapsing is what fucked the modern gal gadot Wonder Woman,
Shazam Fury of the Gods?

>>149024783
That and The Flash were merely lame cameos

>>149021838
Believing she is "made of clay" instead of "made from clay".

>>149023728
They already stripped her and more heroines of sex appeal and people still care about her for what she represent, peace and love and forgiviness.
Even if it's Amazon Attack, Gal Gadot shitty version, edgy Dead Earth.
I will love Diana even if she was a black tranny because her peace and love personality is attractive and makes her a good character.

>>149024408
>t was uncommon for superhero TV shows to use comic book villains until Smallville. With the exception of Batman and Superboy, dating all the way back to George Reeves. Only a couple of cases for The Flash and Lois and Clark.
That's bullshit and your examples contradict it as well. Shazam Power Hour had Black Adam

>>149025879
That was animation, I mentioned Super Friends merely as an additional example that even animation had some trouble.

Adventures of Superman, The Amazing Spider-Man, the Captain America TV movies, The Incredible Hulk, Shazam! and The Secret of Isis had no supervillains from the comics.

Superboy had 4 (Lex, Metallo, Bizarro and Mxyzptlk)
The Flash had 3 at the end of the show (Captain Cold, Trickster and Mirror Master)
Lois and Clark had 2 (Lex and Mxyzptlk)
Swamp Thing had 1 (Arcane)

The Dr. Strange TV movie had Morgan Le Fay
One of the Incredible Hulk TV movies had Kingpin

Wonder Woman had 2 villains from the comics as previously mentioned, and Cagliostro+Morgan Le Fay but I'll not count them because they're not supposed to be the ones from the comics

>>149026205
just remembered that Lois and Clark also had Toyman and The Intergang, but The Intergang had none of the members from the comics.

>>149026205
Shazam Power Hour was a live action, the actor of The Captain appeared in Shazam Fury of the Gods too.
And it had Black Adam.

>>149026380
Power Hour was the cartoon
the live action show was just Shazam! (with Isis it was called Thr Shazam/Isis Hour) and it had no Black Adam

still can't find the source for this

>>149026751
okay I found it

>>149023183
This is accurate

>>149025853
>Amazon Attack, Gal Gadot shitty version, edgy Dead Earth.
None of those versions represent "peace, love, and forgiveness", it's more Xena bullshit.
That also goes for New Frontier, which I actually really like except for the weakest part, the Wonder Woman scenes.

>>149024280
She's an a-lister by senority. Effectiveness Grandmothered into the trinity by being once of the oldest major superheroines .
She's a more famous version of Tigra where she can't work as a solo series but is good in team stories.
She's famous by association not individual merit

>>148967419 (OP)
There is only way I can see Windy just stories on the same level as supes and bats is if they solidify the symbol she's suppose to be.
Superman is the Symbol of Hope
Batman is the Symbol of Vengance
And Wonder Woman should be the Symbol of Justice, both compassionate and harsh.

Have balance between how tough and gentle she can be loke the others and have her falter in some of her decisions. Maybe then we can have sonethig to All-Star Superman or The Dark Knight for Diana

>>149026954
>she can't work as a solo series but is good in team stories.
only retards say this considering she's always the worst part of any team story by being a bitch or being nothing

>>149027017
Wonder Woman is the symbol of truth

>>149027048
I'm mean in a lot of animated justice leagues movies/shows she's pretty good.

>>149027064
How?
I'm being genuine here, how?

>>149027068
the problem with wonder woman is that most people have terrible taste

>>149016102
Ares is the literal physical personification of War as a concept and yet 9 times out of 10 he's a jobber despite how big of a deal that should be all accounts make him since he's a Wondy antag therefore not worth taking seriously

>>148967419 (OP)
She’s only obscure because culture hates male heterosexuality rn

>>149016102
You talk like superman has a strong rogue gallery.

>>148988104
Mindblowing that Kiteman got an animated series before Wonder Woman was even considered

>>149027534
they have considered it many times, but they always get cold feet
and then whey they do something that randomly gets popular, they try to cash in and then fuck it all up immediately, and it goes back to square one

>>149027517
He does.
>Lex Luthor
>Parasite
>Brainiac
>General Zod
>Toyman
>Mr. Mxyzptlk
>Metallo
>Mongul
>Bizarro
>Lobo
>Darkseid

>>149027641
>>Lobo
>>Darkseid
Those two originated from elsewhere, and are more general DC characters.

>>149027666
Darkseid appeared in an Jimmy Olsen comic first and is closely associated with Superman. I'd say he counts.

>>149013142
sure is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUp9e0S_ouI

>>149010151
You say that like it's aaseive achievement plenty of women in the landscape have better comics than Diana on average

>>148967419 (OP)
Just replace her with Absolute Wonder Woman

>>149028168
the good things from Absolute Wonder Woman are the things they removed from Wonder Woman decades ago
There's no need to replace her with an edgy fad, just put those things back in

>>149027078
The lasso, it makes you say truth

>>149023728
half the thread ahs been posting counterarguments but youre only focused on the titties because thats what youre obsessed with you coombrained baitposting faggot

>>149028251
"edgy fag" is not the correct description for Absolute WW I'm afraid

>>149007113
Michael Jackson?

>>149025818
I may be retarded, what's the difference?

>>149027666
>Those two originated from elsewhere
Sabretooth debuted in an Iron Fist comic

>>148967419 (OP)
Don't post about her here idiot, jannies love her and will erase any thread talking about her even if it's complimentig the character

>>148984675
Kill yourself

>>149029413
There are no counterarguments, it's butthurt Wondy "fans" posting pinups and talking about how hot she is.

>>149029936
only because your pornbrained mind only looks at the pinups and nothing else in the thread

Carol better

>>149027666
>>149027749
Punisher isn't a Spider-Man character neither Wolverine a Hulk character, they the first appearence in someone else comic is a subtle way to introduce them like CW Flash introducing other DC characters that aren't Flash characters

>>149029867
Her soul is human and her body is made of clay, she isn't like a living statue like a robot.
She is a soul in a robot.

>>149030607
Carol Ferris right

>>149027017
>Superman is the Symbol of Hope
>And Wonder Woman should be the Symbol of Justice, both compassionate and harsh.
Used to be the other way around.

>>148975719
>up there with Adam West Batman
Should've had a crossover.

>>149031135
correct

>>149027017
>>149031162
Morrison said Superman is action.
And so Batman should be detective.
So Wonder Woman.....cavalcade? Sensation?

>>149027017
Superman’s the symbol of hope.
Batman is the symbol of Justice .
Wonder Woman is the symbol of truth.

If you want the actually symbol for vengeance, then go see the Punisher.

>>148967419 (OP)
She is relevant because of porn. Spider Gwen is even more pointless and still remains popular because of coomers. She's never going away.

>>149031577
Meanwhile Yara....she bombed hard

>>149031724

>>149027517
He does? No sane person is putting Cheetah or Circe on the same bracket as Lex Luthor or The Joker

>>149029867
She is a living statue vs "gods transmute live from base elements".

>>149029337
Wow, maybe Wondy really does have nothing going for her.

>>149031468
Journey?
Going to a bunch of places on adventures and all that.

>>149031735
I live Wonder Woman villains

Wonder Woman villains rape

>>149032000
Can Gotham police recruit them?

>>149032017
I mean, isn’t Vandal Savage currently the Police Commissioner?
That guys been doing SA since the prehistoric era.

>>148987282
Thor is often portrayed as a hero of peace and compassion beyond reason, doesnt stop him from being Marvel's Viking version of Conan and committing brutal acts of violence and destruction for self indulgent pleasure and glory and enforcing his power over all else as the way of what's right and good. Diana is kinda the same. Only shes more womanly about it.

>>149020216
Supes is into this sort of thing

>>149030607
Yeah!

>>149026825
That's what I said, that I love Wonder Woman even when she is OOC because I want her to be good even with the shit they put her in.
I want her to be so good not even bad stories will ruin her for me.
>>149032517
You described Aquaman, in JLA he was both the Conan and the diplomat for Atlantis.
Diana is supposed to be the MOTHER, the redeemer and the one is ready to go fury if you hurt her kids

>>149032694
is this some jeet who constantly fantasizes about threesomes as Clark?

>>149030784
>Punisher isn't a Spider-Man character neither Wolverine a Hulk character
They're closely related enough to be called antagonists. I mean Spider-Man and Daredevil can both share Kingpin as a villian.

>>149029944
There's nothing else besides vaguely sharing she represents "peace" and "truth" when she really doesn't, also her stories still suck either way.

>>149034280
Not the point, some characters get introduced in some comics but develop and being divorced by their appearence issue roots.
Hitman isn't an Etrigan's character

>>149034293
>erm actually no youre wrong she sucks because... she just does, okay?!

>>149034930
Funny, you still can't explain why she's a good character without vague platitudes treated as traits. Perhaps it's because every new writer tries to "fix" her because she's so damn boring, and thus there's been no consistency with Wonder Woman for the past 80 years.

People get Batman. Some people get Superman. Most do not get Wonder Woman. It is that simple. I remember Bruce Timm talking about the difficulty he had doing a Superman animated series (pic related). I just think Wonder Woman has this issue but to the extreme.

The truth is comics were disposable entertainment and most characters are all over the place in terms of characterisation besides a slim few. And even those characters that may have more consistent characterisation or popular stories/villains have plenty of "all over the place" stories when you look at the totality of their comics.

>>149035289
She represent a mother that wants to uplift humanity and be a peaceful utopia and she can also be a mama bear with a lasso and a sword for all the worst of humanity and telling them that they're not lost but broken and can be saved.
And yes I'm a mommy fetishist coomer but I'm the only WW fan left if you want to see me like that.
Perez, Rucka, Simone understood that too, hack writers that want to fix something that was never broke don't apply.
>>149035703
Just follow Morrison's principle, she is Heras, Love, Mother.

>>149035703
but they don't get her because they are extremely retarded and invent problems
you mentioned Bruce Timm, he said she's paradoxical because "how can you be a warrior but also a diplomat? how can you be headstrong but wise?" when she's not even the only character that is like that. Even Superman has that dichotomy. He's supposed to be friendly but he's often an asshole.
Not to mention, if it's supposed to be a choice, why do they always choose the violent path? There were no lovey dovey characters in JL and plenty of "badass" characters already.

>>149035703
This only happens because they don't treat the Golden Age as anything more than "the fetish comic" and they don't treat the TV show with even a tenth of the respect they treat Superman 1978 even though it was doing many of the same things earlier.
Bruce Timm said "with Batman you have Frank Miller, with Superman you have Christopher Reeve. With Wonder Woman you have nothing. I love the show but it's not what Wonder Woman is about". When it's precisely what Wonder Woman is about.
They ignore the clear examples of ehat Wonder Woman is in favor of their own headcanon or "unique take" and then complain they don't know what to do. The Fleischer animation is still revered to this day, but anything old about Wonder Woman is discarded, a footnote, they think they know better.

>>149035967
>but they don't get her because they are extremely retarded and invent problems
It is a perception issue. A character for a person only exists in what they have seen or heard in narrow ways. It is what people do. Framing it as just being retarded people inventing problems won't fix the issue. Fixing people's perception of her would fix the issue.

> when she's not even the only character that is like that
That is literally what I was saying:
>The truth is comics were disposable entertainment and most characters are all over the place in terms of characterisation besides a slim few.
Most characters are, when you come down to it, all over the place. The very nature of having so many creative teams over decades does that (but even a single creator can forget the point or write bad stories.) But some characters have been able to cut through that issue. I think the best way to cut through that issue tends to be a big popular story that is seminal enough to create some kind of consistency or at least appeal to that great story. Like Batman might have with Frank Miller etc.

>There were no lovey dovey characters
I don't think anyone could write a decent lovey dovey character in an interesting way because of the entrenched industry and creative patterns. Some of it is the trappings of the genre and what people are inspired by and what they repeat.

Does anyone else feel like Wonder Woman being connected to mythological stuff is just a bit been there done that and that general audiences don't care as much about that myths and legends shit anymore?

>>149036161
It is a bit Public Domain. The one Thor movie that was most well-received had little to do with Norse mythology aside from the beginning and ending and was mostly about Thor going to an alien planet.

>>149035703
>People get Batman. Some people get Superman. Most do not get Wonder Woman. It is that simple
>Bruce Timm's shit

Bruce Timm is a great artist. I love his style. He doesn't really get Superman, HE DOESN'T GET BATMAN, as evidenced by every fucking batman thing he's done without Paul Dini. With all due respect anon it's not an apt comparison. Bruce Timm isn't a good writer. Bruce Timm should not be your guide into character insights.

>>149035793
Morrison's wonder woman is trash

>>149036085
>They ignore the clear examples of ehat Wonder Woman is in favor of their own headcanon or "unique take" and then complain they don't know what to do.
Everyone does this because people are interested in different things. Comic book fans are not, in anyway shape or form, free from this issue. I regularly talk to people on /co/ who make grand generalisations about characters or series even when the actual series they are talking about are vastly different to what they think they are about. People can miss the point so easily or misremember. The truth is the vast majority of what you think about a character, any character, probably has mistakes and issues at best, gross mischaracterisations at worse.

>>149036206
>>149036161
My theory is since people stopped learning about that shit in school it is harder to connect to anymore. Besides the odd video game or comic book movie mention.

>>149036219
>Bruce Timm should not be your guide into character insights.
I think you missed my point. The point I am mentioning is, how perceptions mould what people see as a character. I am not using Bruce Timm as the be all and end all of character insights, not at all. I am saying that how people connect to a character and how they see a character influences things and we need to understand how to cut through it if you want any chance of a character building or connecting with audiences.

the only reason Batman and Superman feel like they have clear purposes is because we've been bombarded with depictions of them driving that point home since forever, we don't even remember a time when we didn't know what they were about, and that influences writers themselves to keep writing that
As wonky as the 2017 movie was, I feel at least the writer managed to make clear what drives Wonder Woman

>>149036161
Nolan is filming an adapation of The Odyssey and I'm sure he has a way to make it fun and interesting for modern audiences. The creators using it in Wonder Woman don't execute greek mythology well, just like they always fuck up the feminist message too.

Wonder Woman is about matriarchy being the better way. The creator explicitly told this to everyone.
They want to hide that so of course it gets vague and complicated.

>>149036301
>Nolan is filming an adapation of The Odyssey and I'm sure he has a way to make it fun and interesting for modern audiences.
Sure. There is always a chance someone can make it interesting again.

>The creators using it in Wonder Woman don't execute greek mythology well
I think the problem is the repetition of it. Since people don't understand it they execute the same shit over and over again.

>>149036104
>I don't think anyone could write a decent lovey dovey character in an interesting way because of the entrenched industry and creative patterns.
Sailor Moon and Steven Universe did that

>>149036259
>The point I am mentioning is, how perceptions mould what people see as a character. I am not using Bruce Timm as the be all and end all of character insights, not at all. I am saying that how people connect to a character and how they see a character influences things and we need to understand how to cut through it if you want any chance of a character building or connecting with audiences.

And who you get to do the molding matters. The person in the drivers seat decides how people connect to a character the form the perception for the audience. FUCK THE AUDIENCE! the audience is cattle. And the writer,editor,director, whatever is the shepherd. So back to Bruce and Batman, if Bruce's contributions to Batman's history legacy was all there was their would not be many if any more Batman fans than Wonder Woman has. Because Bruse draws nice shit but doesn't get the character even if he says he does. And the same for WW. The problem with WW (and this isn't entirely fair because I feel today their are more hands in the pot/cooks in the kitchen than ever before trying to manufacture a pleasing WW product than ever before) their are no "visionary" writers tackling the character. They're all to some degree copying or purposefully going in the opposite direction to semi disastrous affect. What I'm trying to say, or what it sounds like what you're trying to say to me is is that some kind of group will or hive mind of acceptance is determining what these characters are and I beleive that's (not only with WW) why we have all the trash we have today. I'm saying the creators and their vision for what they want to show in a character or in that characters story is what grabs the attention of the larger group.

>>149036323
>Wonder Woman is about matriarchy being the better way. The creator explicitly told this to everyone.
The based matriarchy, the one where women can choose to be slave if the man wants it. We had an issue where Wonder Woman went in the future and even when women dominated they still wanted to suck men's cocks
>They want to hide that so of course it gets vague and complicated.
Earth One by Morrison wasn't vague about that, the book ends with a giant matriarch orgy fest.
We're good with Marston's Matriarchy because in that women work and men relax all day

>>149036464
>And who you get to do the molding matters.
Of course.
>FUCK THE AUDIENCE! the audience is cattle.
I know people think this is what creatives do but having seen behind the scenes it isn't as much the case as people think. (It does sometimes happen).
>their would not be many if any more Batman fans
So you don't think the animated series made Batman fans? I feel like you've gone over too harshly on Bruce Timm to an extreme?
> their are no "visionary" writers tackling the character
I mean this was part of my point I mentioned earlier that some seminal work needs to be taken to tackle the character and build that.
>They're all to some degree copying or purposefully going in the opposite direction to semi disastrous affect.
In some ways so many comic book characters get caught in the cycle of diminishing returns,Wanda is my go to example because her infamous (and not good) stories influence her direction more than her good past.
>What I'm trying to say... is is that some kind of group will or hive mind of acceptance is determining what these characters are and I beleive that's (not only with WW) why we have all the trash we have today.
Not a hive mind but I am trying to state how people see a character is important, how those perceptions form and how we understand that. I also acknowledged earlier this happens with other characters.
>I'm saying the creators and their vision for what they want to show in a character or in that characters story is what grabs the attention of the larger group.
And I have also stated and acknowledge that the creators can change the perception but they are often caught in the same cycles. Ultimately our positions are not far off, even when it sounds like you think they are.

I just think it is not helpful sometimes to just think (not saying you did this) that people are retarded because it doesn't help explain how to improve a characters direction. We need to understand the full picture.

>>149036612
>So you don't think the animated series made Batman fans?
I think Paul Dini was a the substance behind Bruce Timm's style. Like I said before I really like Bruce Timm as a visual artist. No complaints really. But in all honesty I can't think of anything he's been given full creative control over or where I believe he was ultimately the one in charge that hasn't turned out poorly.

>>149036612
>I just think it is not helpful sometimes to just think (not saying you did this) that people are retarded because it doesn't help explain how to improve a characters direction. We need to understand the full picture.
Understanding the full picture would be great and if that's the case i think there's a lot more going into let's say Wonder Woman if not all comics than just creators the audience and fans that determines the out comes of popularity or perception. It's not my intention to label anyone a retard, nor did I mean "cattle" as a synonym for any kind of stupidity or lack of intelligence but more that MY PERCEPTION is audiences primarily are easily satiated with low hanging fruit, they go where the tall grass is, if you dangle an enticing carrot in front of them they will follow. And to that end they as an audience, the general audience, maybe not you and me as long time comic readers or cartoon/movie watchers, but just people looking for something entertaining, do not care and are not thinking about Wonder Woman or any of these characters. You brought up Scarlet Witch being "defined" by this brief period of shitty writing (my words not yours). And to me that's a great example of what I think the larger general audience is. They eat it continuously because they are fed it, they don't refuse it they don't demand or look for anything different or better. Maybe it sounds elitist but this, or WW snapping a guys neck is why things shouldn't be decided by committee. I believe we need more skilled writers free to shape the stories in meaningful ways.

>>149036301
If no one has done Wonder Woman "right" in over 80 years then it's simply not a good concept.

>>149037354
They did but keeps getting overshade by worse runs

>>149036323
But we’re long past a post-feminist 1960s-1970s women’s movement now.

>>149038369
they try to mask it because it's a tough sell, but they can't run from it when the entire backstory of this idealized hero is that she comes from an island of only women
it's in her DNA

>>149032326
Lesbian spawns or clay?

>>149038151
They're all runs that most people simply don't care enough about.

>>149023928
He's writing the Mister Miracle show they're working on and is more than likely going to be the one handing the Wonder Woman show/movie

>>149039861
I wouldn't mind Tom King in the Wonder Woman's movie direction, he at least want her to love a man and fight monsters

>>149031724
She was completely fumbled just like everyone else in Diana's cast of characters

>>149035703
I feel like the hypothetical WW TAS should have gone all in on the Fantastical and Mysticism...sadly they missed their window and I genuinely don't trust the writers on present day to not immediately fuck up WW

>>149036161
It doesn't help that other heroes have done it arguably better too.

>>149040008
JLA dark was great to bad they never made that live action movie

>>149036104
>I don't think anyone could write a decent lovey dovey character in an interesting way because of the entrenched industry and creative patterns. Some of it is the trappings of the genre and what people are inspired by and what they repeat.

Like someone said, we have Sailor Moon and Steven Universe, I'd also add Madoka to that, it seems like this is more of a DC/Marvel problem than a general one.

>>149023893
Tom King deserves hate to be fair

>>149039958
sexo

>>149031577
coomer faggots really think the world revolves around them and their "industry"

>>149035289
no response to >>149035793 I see, almost as if she's popular for a reason and randomly saying "she's irrelevant" or "her stories suck" as a tourist doesnt get you far

>>149041072
Sad they never followed to WW1984 credit scene too

>>149039958
She is now Wonder Girl number 3, the Tim Drake destiny

>>149042229
what's that? there's only one WW movie

>>148967419 (OP)
DC cursed her by flip-flopping on her stuff so much.

>>149042536
Shazam Fury of the Gods?

>>149039861
Oh God, I hope not.
I still have hope that Gunn, DC Studios, and WB will think they have to hire a woman to lead the Wonder Woman movie, and thus ignore Tom King's run.

Tom King's run isn't terrible, but it's just not nearly as good as the rest of post Rebirth era.
It's also way too political, and way too focused on Wonder Woman's relationship with Batman and Superman

>>149027017
>And Wonder Woman should be the Symbol of Justice, both compassionate and harsh.
I prefer to see her as the motherly type desu.

>>149042660
they do the same to Batman and Superman too. the difference here is that both of them have a gazillion solo adaptations, Wondy doesn't. that's how DC cursed her.

>>149042721
They don't do it nearly as much to those two, though. That's why people were so outraged when Superman and Batman started killing people in the movies, etc. Casual audiences generally have an idea of what they'd do or how they should behave. They don't really have that with WW, and it's probably because of the lack of media and writers coming in and wanting to reinvent the wheel for the 20th time.

>>149042739
youre right, but thats sort of why I said that too. having more adaptations, especially animated ones will give a sense of "definitive" Wonder Woman lore or characteristics, which Batman and Superman have aplenty. the reason casual audiences don't have a general idea like you said is precisely because there's no non-comic media that establishes general norms about Diana while the comics do their wacky shit.

>>149042758
We did have the show, but they don't seem to really push it beyond nostalgic merch stuff.

>>149042697
they would hire a woman to direct but have Tom King write it

>Tom King's run isn't terrible, but it's just not nearly as good as the rest of post Rebirth era.
but it's not even that good, just alright
King is mediocre with touches of terrible

>>149042775
It's for an invisible audience that bought the 60s tv show comics

>>149042812
It's also possibly the best piece of media she's gotten outside of the comics. I think they should remake it as an animated series and see how that fares. They need to start somewhere, so might as well use the show as a basis for possible future media.

>>149042775
the show is too old now. it does its job but its portrayal of Wondy is outdated and not in touch with newer stuff. she needs another show, live action or animated

>>149042846
>Wondy is outdated
How?
>not in touch with newer stuff.
Does that really matter?

If Starfire, Harley Quinn, Kite-Man, Mr Miracle and the Creatire Commandoes get their own cartoon show, why not Wonder Woman?

>>149042969
Because she sucks

>>149042854
I didn't say Wondy is outdated, I said the show was. it's from a different era of superhero media. and quite frankly, it's not popular or known among newer audiences which bring me back to my point about there not being enough adaptations of Wondy in the modern era. people who grew up on the DCAU had her regularly appear in JL at least, but modern-day audiences (which consists of both zoomers and older people just entering the genre) only have the 2017 movie to go with, since all her other DCEU appearances were dogshit

>>149042846
>not in touch with newer stuff
I'm glad the show was my first exposure (and not way back then). There are limitations but the heart of what makes Wonder Woman is there and much of the comic book stuff is there, at least for a while. I was actually shocked at how much they directly adapted from the first comics when I then looked them up to read. And having an actual charming person depicting the character goes a LONG way.
I doubt I would be a fan if my first serious exposure was the JL cartoon or any other animation, or a random post-Crisis run. Perez wouldn't make me a fan of Wonder Woman herself, maybe the mythos. I was also kinda lucky that the first comic run I read was the 2006 relaunch which isn't exceptional writing but it was kinda of a revamp on many classic concepts. Otherwise I would just be "what the hell is all this random stuff? Why is she in Chicago?"

>>149043054
*Boston

>>149043028
My cock right

>>149037040
>You brought up Scarlet Witch being "defined" by this brief period of shitty writing (my words not yours). And to me that's a great example of what I think the larger general audience is. They eat it continuously because they are fed it, they don't refuse it they don't demand or look for anything different or better.
Not the same anon, but that was a strange situation where playing the character reasonably closer to who she'd been through most of her comics history actually really clicked and resonated with general normie audiences, but it was online nerd-dom who largely don't read Avengers comics, who were salivating for those specific stories to be adapted because that's all they knew and cared about, and the guy running the MCU was one of them. This wasn't the general audience's fault, this was all on nerds only knowing a character for one story and not caring enough to know it's not what she's normally like or that it's a really bad story. Maybe normies not caring for it will finally shut them up.

As for WW, you have writers trying to work out how, in an action heavy genre, to have her resolve things in non-violent ways and have it be entertaining to read or watch, and they chose the easier route of just making her more of a warrior type, and again, it's the nerds with only a surface level knowledge obsessing over moments like the neck snap story because it's all they know.

>>148967419 (OP)
Wondy is damned because DC never fucking give her any solo projects.
You want a cartoon? Best you can do is a supporting character in a Justice League show, second fiddle to Bruce and Clark of course.
Animated movie? See above.
Live action? Cast the fucking worst actress you can find
Video game? Well they were going to make one but then WB being WB changed it mid production to live service shit, then after all their live services flopped they made the devs change it back to single player, and then just said fuck it and scrapped the whole thing killing like 5 or 6 years of dev time for nothing. She's damned by the retards in charge of her IP.

>>149044027
>Animated movie? See above.
but she did have an animated movie
they cancelled its sequel because initial sales were slow but it ended up being one of the most successful
then they did the other one to cash in on the movie popularity and it was shit because it adapted Rebirth

>>149044155
An non theatric animated movie is just a long tv special.
And see how JSA movie used Wonder Woman just because they felt it needed a cunt warrior like girlboss
Don't have the quote but in another thread it was posted

>>149033535
????

>>149035793
>She represent a mother that wants to uplift humanity and be a peaceful utopia and she can also be a mama bear with a lasso and a sword for all the worst of humanity and telling them that they're not lost but broken and can be saved.

So shes Superman but female. She can't save humanity if she's mythological catered toward violence and enforcing woman's version of Greek order.

Maybe Batman and Superman get more media because they have plethora of stories to adapt. Wonder Woman only has Rucka's original run and Perez's run. Both of which are just okay but not outstanding.

>>149044602
nope, to WB there's Batman, Batman, Superman, pet projects for their star writers, and everyone else
Other characters have big stories that don't get adapted unless it falls into the "pet projects for their star writers" category (ie Green Lantern, The Flash and Aquaman only get Geoff Johns shit)

>>149044434
Superman doesn't have theatrical animated movies either

>>149044659
He had those shorts

>>149044628
Dick is on the same boat as Wondy.

>>149044659
>>149045299
He had one recently

>>149044602
nothing says they can't write new stories, Lynda's show had new stuff aplenty

>>149045299
things before the invention of television don't count

>>149045713
It's a silly argument in many ways considering so many of Batman's adaptations are original stories, including the biggest ones like mask of the Phantasm and The Dark Knight

>>149045516
So was also a Wonder Woman theatrical movie because she was in it? Lol the JL was a side appearence in this, the pets are the mains.

>>149046311
And the superman animated series created a lot of new villains.

>>149046572
And real superman fans hated them lol, like for MAWS

>>149032000
Cheetah does lesbian rape

>>148967419 (OP)
Wonderful

>>149032694
The N52 Superman suit breaks it but still SuperHarem so I approve anyway

People talk about icons this or perceptions that, nah nigga you just need good, popular, well-written stories. Frank Miller made Daredevil far more popular by throwing cool shit at him (like ninjas), giving him an interesting love interest (Elektra) and changing parts of his origin. Give someone who actually gives a fuck at trying something different and has a crumb of talent and you might make something of Wonder Woman. But nah you will give the same conveyor belt of flavour of the week guys a crack at Wonder Woman and go no where.

The next movie ww needs to be someone men long to be at the knees of

>>149049672
Will be since Tom King is writing it
>>149049621
You described Tom King's WW

>>149049958
>You described Tom King's WW
in the last paragraph, right?

>>149049958
Hi Tom we don't like you here

>>149049958
Tom King should be strung up

>>149048005
Nice

>>149044434
Bloodlines was pretty good in my opinion.

>>149050834
calm yourself

>>149044628
You forgot people related to Batman rank above pet projects

>>149050984
Still hate Rosario Dawson as Diana

>>148969462
So famous that you post superXena with sword and shield lmao

>>148969963
Because they used the real deal and these characters weren't bastardized beyond recognition yet

>>148971806
100% agree.
Only annoyance are that she should fly and that Amazon should have been sci fi pulp civilization (otherwise the invisiplane doesn't make sense)

>>148971827
>She's the most famous, recognizable and successful superheroine in existence
Not even her fans can even tell what's her lore
She's superfacially very famous, but there is nothing behing that superficial fame

>>148973313
acquaman's movie and ww's movie are both dogshit and huge mistreatings of both characters

>>148975719
I would agree if it wasn't 50 years ago anon

>>148975958
>>148980580
>>148981273
muh warrior

>>148998676
This. She's been a label to slap on identity-less shit for so long that she isn't even a character anmore, and hasn't been in ages

>>149005269
t. closeted gay

>>149013304
Looks betther than anythign made with WW in the last 15 years or more

>>149025853
Then you don't love WW, you like the general idea. And all those shitty version are just lame Xena

>>149031129
I don't understand why suddenly this ancient concept became cryptic in the mind of so many people
Same with "le golem"

>>149032326
>woke revisionism
no thanks

>>149035289
she's only boring because she's a shapeless idea instead of one specific character

>>149036161
It was fine when it was part of the mix and a subversion of myths. When it became like the myths and omnipresent it became boring and shit.

>>149036301
>Nolan is filming an adapation of The Odyssey and I'm sure he has a way to make it fun and interesting for modern audiences.
Yeah, only an unexistent audience would like a movie with that cast

>>149042536
first one was dogshit too

>>149046311
>>149046572
exactly, V shows don't have to copy the comics beat for beat and some of the best capeshit kino has been non-comic-origin, Mr/ Freeze for example. notthing says we can't get talented writers to work on a new WW show but DC is too retarded and allergic to good decisions

anyway nice thread, we'll meet again in the next inevitable thread "debunking" Diana's popularity to no avail, because she'll never not be popular and /co/tards will never not seethe at that

>>149054039
*TV shows, fuck me
>>149054025
it was decent, Gadot's lack of acting skill notwithstanding

>>149054013
it's the anachronisms that make Wonder Woman interesting

>>149053899
lol no
Perez was the one to make it popular to disfigure Wonder Woman

>>149053909
>>149053997
She is greek myth supermom
>>149053939
As Morrison said superheroes ideal go above their bad stories
>>149053946
You have both shitaste and gay if you don't like that ass lol
>>149053973
The point was, a fan of WW supports her and wants her to be better even with her bad stories
>>149054039
Best capeshit kino? Lmao you either mean Snyder or Marvel slop and they were bad with the noncapeshit enjoyers making hot takes on capeshit, you need to like the comic origins AND wanting to update or fix them with good writing. Like only few dc and marvel medias writers did. And how Marvel Rivals is doing.
>>149054055
Perez put a bible on how Diana needs to be and adapted

Someone storytime today’s issue.

>>149054300
>Wonder Woman is just an idea of a good character not a character with bad stories.
So OP was right all along?

>>149054300
>Perez put a bible on how Diana needs to be and adapted
stripped down of personality, agency, most of her cast, setting and several iconic elements? even the 2009 movie, mostly based on it, had to put stuff back in and remove his random creations

>>149054557
That was shitty, but Perez's Diana personality is what needs to stay, not skinny Etta or old veteran Steve

>>149050984
>new 52 warrior

>>149054044
>it was decent, Gadot's lack of acting skill notwithstanding
There was nothing decend about it but more power to you if you liked it

>>149054055
Fore every mistake Perez, made he did 10 things right. And she he didn't turn her into a shapeless malleable bastardized non-character that not even historical fans can tell who is she supposed to be
>>149054046
It'a specific way to be anacronistic that made her interesting tho. Among other things that got lost with the bastardization

>>149054300
>She is greek myth supermom
Lol you are not a fan
>>>149053939 (You)
>As Morrison said superheroes ideal go above their bad stories
Morrison is a hack and among the many things he doesn't get at all there is Wonder Woman. Also you are describiing her like an idea for a character and not a character, bsically agreeing with OP
>>>149053946 (You)
>You have both shitaste and gay if you don't like that ass lol
Lmao assfag cry more. you can't even see the face
>>>149053973 (You)
>The point was, a fan of WW supports her and wants her to be better even with her bad stories
someone who acriticallly like anything under the labebl of his "favourite" IP is just fan of consuming said IP for arbitrary reasons, and one of the worst addition to any fanbase ever

>>149054905
She is a greek myth supermom as simply what her core of her best stories like League of One is, sorry if I'm a consumer and a WB cocksucker but that's what being a WW fan means

>>149054926
No it's what being a mindless drone who doesn't care for the identity and integrity of the thing he claims to like means.

>>149054573
lack of personality is a personality, I guess

>>149054853
Other part about were pretty good. It had 5 WW villians, a good twist villian, Steve was cool, it had Diana fuck up in a way, good sacrifice, some tension, Frank the Minotaur.
It was fun