I disagree with that popular opinion about spider-man
Of course, writers relentlessly shitting on him for no particular reason is wrong and annoying, but I don't think he must have full happy family, a lot of kids and own company with billion of dollars.
It's not really what character is about, is it? The hero business is a sacrifice, and the real satisfaction should be the knowledge he prevented the tragedy he himself went through and in some cases the gratitude of random people he saved, not just "he got beat up, but at least he will bang a hot chick and get karma cashback with money or something"
Marrying Mary Jane wouldn't ruin the character, I just don't think he is about happy endings.
Actually, you do have a spider-man who isn't getting cucked by some self-insert and has his parents alive and isn't broke, but you don't like him as much, because he never learnt that "with great power..." lesson. Miles I mean

>>149248179 (OP)
You're an idiot. And you fail to understand the point and the problem. The problem isn't that he doesn't have EVERYTHING, the problem is that he has NOTHING. And that writers are so dead set on pushing the Parker Luck as some kind of universal absolute of suffering without realize it's meant to swing back and forth. He doesn't get his small victories and happiness. You're an idiot.

>>149248179 (OP)
If Spider-man was about happy endings Peter would have gotten over his Spider-man addiction years ago.

>>149248211
I'm not saying they are right by making a cat shit in his drawer every morning, I'm just saying that desire for making him a genius billionaire feels like a self insert
He is at his best when interacting with new yorkers, this dynamic is the most entertaining, like in reimi movies where they threw shit at goblin or concealed his identity after the train in the second movie

>>149248211
For example killing aunt may at any point will always be retarded, the whole point of ben dying is that he didn't try to be spider-man, if he is spider-man now may should never die

>>149248179 (OP)
You sound like you agree with the popular opinion and disagree with the strawman you think the popular opinion is.

>>149248240
>I'm just saying that desire for making him a genius billionaire feels like a self insert
No one wants this. Everyone hated Parker Industries. Peter getting married and starting a family isn't some self-insert wish fulfillment, it was the natural extension of his character development over 30 years

>>149248240
>I'm just saying that desire for making him a genius billionaire feels like a self insert
Everyone but me hated that though.

>>149248179 (OP)
>but I don't think he must have full happy family, a lot of kids and own company with billion of dollars.
No one is asking for this. People don't like what's happening to him because he's been getting shit on for 20yrs at this point and has less than nothing.
It really drove the point him for me with Superior Spider-Man where he's killed and not a single soul cares that he was basically replaced overnight.
At this point in his life he has no real friends, his love interests are a revolving door and the only thing that connects to a normal life his Aunt May and said revolving door.
At this point just take ol boy out back and shoot him in the head.

>>149248337
>>149248346
I guess thread doesn't make sense now then does it
Drama plots with families should not be a focus though, at most I hope it's just gonna be background stuff
I

>>149248179 (OP)
I don't think that Peter's life should be perfect, but making it always a thing were he loses in some way or another is depressive. I mean, he can still somehow fail and show that human sacrifice, the perseverance. That was what made him special since his first run. But if you overdo it or make it always present it gets boring because you're looking at a character who isn’t developing, who isn’t growing. Peter's marriage with MJ was not only a cute thing, but also important because she was a character present in his life since issue 42. Having a daughter or son was the next step. And also getting a good job. Not necessarily a great one because that would solve many problems and make the stories boring, but still good enough. And time passes, so Aunt May was probably going to die and that could have been an important issue, one were Peter learned a new lesson. Which one? I don't know, but I think it had potential. 2025, this isn’t the case. Peter is a manchild who sticks to the core values of the first Spider-Man decade in the most artificial and misunderstood way
>Miles
Yeah that's one of my problems with that fag, but in no way is my interpretation of what Spider-Man should be about comparable to Miles

>>149248405
Maybe I am misinterpreting the idea when people say he doesn't get rewarded for selfless behaviour
He doesn't deserve to be cucked and shat on and raped, but reward is heroic deed in itself, he saves people because he feels he has to

>>149248442
and editorial rewards him by putting him in a literal cuck chair
everyone's happy

>>149248179 (OP)
He should have the same thing every popular cape character desperately needs. A fucking ENDING to their story. Followed by a new story with new characters. If they had tried that like half a century ago and, yknow, found half decent writers now and then, they might just be actually competing with manga now

>>149248452
kikes and liberals hate selfless heroes
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>149248405
I mean that's what it boils down too. Peter doesn't win big, but he gets normal small happiness. And that's beautiful. He can suffer any hardship weather any storm because if nothing else he had that one pillar of support. And that's all anyone really needs.

>>149248442
Dude, you're thinking too stoically. Stop being me. Everyone needs some kind of reward, even Aunt May's kisses counted as rewards. In fact, i think that doing what you say without exploring it too much is a cheap way of making a supposedly deep character. Peter was like that, but mostly because he was responsible for the death of his uncle. So he was like paying this big debt. In some way, he finally pays it in If this be my destiny. But of course that wasn't the case because Ditko left and Marvel made him a completely selfless hero. Oh and also he is Spider-Man because it relaxes him, but i think that was a thing since the beginning. What I'm trying to say is that i don't think that failure and perseverance shouldn't be themes he has, but completely centering around them would eventually feel simply bad. Hence, the second half of Spider-Man's history. Specially considering that, unlike most people believe, Peter is a character with a lot of themes. Fully concentrating on the ones you're talking about probably should be specially reserved for specific storylines. The kind of storylines that sometimes get critically acclaimed

>>149248531
Thanks anon. I still can't believe that Marvel killed him. He's a very deep character, even though most people wouldn't believe it

>>149248179 (OP)
>>149248211
I don't understand why people have so much trouble with this
Peter's supposed to be a guy who is struggling, but making it.
he struggles for a long time to get a girl, and even when he does, she dies.. but finally he gets his second chance, and the two of them are a perfect couple. it feels earned.

they struggle financially for years, even though any of Peter's rich friends should be easily able to subsidize him, but that way, every so often, when he catches a break, it feels good. When Tony writes him a check for assisting in the research of his Infinity Engine, and you realize yeah, he DID. he actually does deserve that money. now they can pay off their debts.. you feel good.

he shouldn't ever be a new Tony Stark. that's fucking stupid. Part of what makes him cool is his improvised, small-scale gadgetry, that a single guy came up with. if he's covered in tech, why do we care that he's part spider?

he also shouldn't be suffering constantly, because that SHOULD hurt you to read, seeing someone being this patient and this good, going unrewarded. Yeah real life is like that, but that's why we read comics, to get away from it.

>>149248531
It sucks ass (for the two of them) that Kraven's Last Hunt was, like, the second thing that happened after they got married

>>149248179 (OP)
Well the main issue isn't that Spidey doesn't have a happy ending, it's that he is no longer progressing as a character.
Part of what makes Marvel interesting is how characters slowly grow older and move on in life, they change over the years.

As Spidey increasingly approaches his 30s, it feels wrong for him to still be a unmarried photographer struggling to pay rent.
Him being married and having problems about managing that, or having a new higher rank job and then having to balance new work responsibility with being Spider-Man is also a good way to continue his character.

Like, we've seen Spider-Man be a single photographer before. That was his status quo for ages.
It's just not interesting anymore. He should get new challenges and stories through a reasonable progression in career and stage of life.
With what Marvel is doing right now, they may as well tell stories where Peter Parker is still a teenager, because that's basically what he is right now.

>>149248273
What about from natural causes?

>>149248179 (OP)
Actually I like Miles more. Because I relate to him more.
Peter is a boomer’s fantasy from the 20th century.
Miles is more real to me.

>>149248996
You're right, people nowadays want an easy life without any complications. He is perfect for the new generations

>>149248179 (OP)
I'm not a Spider-Man fan, even though I love comic books. I just never really got into him, but people really have. He's the no1 most popular superhero and there are hundreds of thousands of people who grew up reading him and kept doing so, and now view him as a friend of sorts. They're invested in a significant way, much more than one would be with any other fictional character.

And because of that, what Marvel has been doing is just depressing a lot of people. I get that Spidey having to sacrifice to be a hero is core to his character, but that surely can still be present without having him beaten, killed, poor, lonely, cucked, and fucking every other bad thing under the sun.
It's just depressing at this point. I'm not saying it needs to be all sunshine and rainbows, but it needs to lighten itself in tone.

>>149248714
Never put it beyond the retards running the ship to piss all over their own greatest moments

>>149248996
>>149249053
Get fucked, you faggots.

>>149248474
>A fucking ENDING to their story.

Not really

>>149248474.
If you know so much, then where the fuck is your comic book?

I’m not really a spidey fan but everything I’ve seen of the current character feels so depressing like it feels some weird form of torture porn

>>149248179 (OP)
I just think the editorial are idiots, who are trying to push for a Peter Parker that didn't exist till Brand New Day.
And you know, I would have accepted Peter not being with MJ, if it was handled competently. Unfortunaly, we had a fucking pact with the devil instead.
As for Miles, I think he should have stayed in the ultimate-verse. I jist don't like the idea or multiple Spider-man spin off coexisting in the same verse. Like, the two first Spider-Women were fine since they were largely unrelated to Peter, but I don't want Miguel or Mayday or Miles being in 616.

>>149248179 (OP)
Marrying Mary Jane was great and removing it is the dumbest decision they've made (especially how they did it).

But I don't think it needs to progress past that too much. Don't make Peter super rich and successful or anything like that. Give Spidey his sexy wife back and that's it.

>>149248179 (OP)
Spider-Man's costume is so timeless and cool. Who could've guessed it'd be lauded all these years and iterations later?

>>149248273
>if he is spider-man now may should never die
Gwen, Jean and Harry still died. Being Spidey doesn't mean you can save everyone.

>>149248273
Counterpoint:

>>149248273
Retire already, Breevort.