Infinity Train creator on the whole "Go Indie" claim

>>149265557 (OP)
>American problem
Not my problem. No wonder the biggest indie studio right now is Australian.

Maybe it's time for other countries to get a shot at making cool stuff.

>>149265557 (OP)
You can spend even just 15 minutes per day on your indie project. Progress is progress.

>>149265557 (OP)
>Also... healthcare? Hello? In the US it's tied to employment. You'll have to pay for it otherwise how do you pay for it if you don't have a job?
https://www.healthcare.gov/unemployed/

>>149265558
>"Pay me more so I can live off of cooking what *I* want to feed you!"
Typical drawfag behaviour. They are narcissists. They want money and praise, but for their ideas instead of what the audience wants to see. These idiots aren't getting the message that they are being weeded out by audience selection.

>>149265565

Nice to know you don't have empathy anon

Just more industrycuck cope. There are legions of independent artists who just do it for its own sake, you're just too used to having a regular salary and don't want to give it up, but aren't willing to admit you're ok with the creative bankruptcy that comes with it.

>>149265594
if 15 minutes produces 1 minute of product sure it would only take you a month to produce a short film

do u think anybody's working at that rate

like Aardman's big movies have a production rate of 3 seconds per day for full days of work, so you're telling people stop motion is dead because even at a lower quality associated with faster rates of production it would still take years to make a five minute short

the same is true of CGI because animating, modelling - these things take time but can be done in short bursts, up to a point

the problem for CGI is the render times: if you want to look competitive you have to have the time to render sequences uninterrupted, which also costs a shitton of money because you're constantly running your own PC at the limits of its 1.8kW power consumption for hours at a time even when you're not there (not to mention the noise and heat of running it like that, or the cost of acquiring the hardware that can do the rendering)

2D animation? for 15 minutes a day? hahahahaha

want voice work? good luck getting decent reads in 15 minutes every day

>>149265606
that's gone today babes

>>149265565
no, no he has a point even in civilised countries, you've got to make rent somehow and it is true that money spent on weird fuckbunkers that're just going to be abandoned dankholes in 25 years is money not spent on the arts

when you look at Venice you're not looking at something made to make weddings for bald idiots look pretty, you're looking at a city which was paid for, even in its minor architectural details but especially in its great works and the contents of its galleria, by obscenely rich people who wanted there to be beauty and joy in the world

those people no longer exist and the currently obscenely rich people don't seem to understand where it all came from

>>149265594
There's ultimately two things that animatorfags don't seem to get when going indie
1. It doesn't need to be your main job, not immediately. You don't need to live in LA for whatever reason. You can put a hour or two into it each night and hopefully you'll make enough an impact for it to be your occupation shortly, and if not you just keep doing what you were
2. You don't need this highly complex hand drawn, 30 minute "pilot" to start off. Make animatics even if you need to keep something in budget

>>149265739
name 5000 indie artists who've actually produced something finished in the past 5 years, as well as the name of that piece and where to find it, either for free or when it was on general release in theaters or print or whenever

you may not use Patreon etc as examples because by definition those artists have patrons

(5000 is the number of men in a roman legion)

take all the time you want, faggot

>>149265565
Survivorship bias. The CEO are very richs and already had an established fanbase.
American should follow european animation studios organisation, they are practically all independent.

Having a job and also having a passion project is not really a difficult thing. Just look at the thousands of artists out there on social media who work a wide array of jobs and yet still manage to make time for their webcomic.
Obviously you can’t shoot for the stars and make a fully-produced season of animation unless you have funding and/or a team, but there’s still a lot that independent artists can do.
Animation industry people were suckered into a career where they work 16 hours a day on shit like Paw Patrol because of the of the 2% chance they might get to pitch a show that gets picked up and completely changed by executives into something bland and cheap.

>>149265557 (OP)
Huge fucking cope. Fuck the industry, you're not gonna make them do shit and treat you any better by begging and swallowing their cum. Owen is really cucked for saying this shit and makes me feel less bad that IT was cancelled. JUST GO INDEPENDENT like Dana did. For all the bitching and whining she did about Disney she's actually trying to make a difference

>>149265856
My god you have no idea if you think Paw Patrol is a bad gig. It gets so, so much worse

>>149265884
I think his definition of "indie" is doing yourself and not with the help of a medium team, like GLITCH is : a medium-sized animation studio.

>>149265557 (OP)
Reality is indifferent to individual plight.
If you're poor, go get a job.
If you want more money, get a better job.
If the industry doesn't want you, go indie.
These statements only seem cavalier to people who think they are special. Animators as a whole, as much as I sympathize with them, think they're special.
Something like 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first 3 years. Nearly every prose author and musician are technically indies, and the vast majority of them live near destitution. If we are to hand out safety nets to everyone in this position, then animators are nowhere near the front of the line.

>>149265920
>doing yourself
Making your animaion by yourself* which is technically just projects every animators do.
The awkwardness of this discourse comes from the audience who treats every short projects like a full fledge animation series, imo.

>>149265557 (OP)
If you're a teenager/college age, go indie. If you're late twenties/early thirties/go indy. If you're late thirties/early forties: it's a hobby.

>>149265920
But Kiana Mai made her pilot animatic without the help of an indie studio (I think). Regardless, any one as talented as industry people really have no excuse to not at least try to pursue and support indies. I mean arent these guys all part of TAG? Why isn't their union fighting for them (instead of focusing on AI shit)? I understand where he's coming from but if you want radical changes in the studios you need to be willing to the risks. Maybe if all the established industry people walked out and started their own studios and forced the companies to hire new inexperienced artists, that would kill the companies.

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
What a salty bitchlet, he sounds like he has more söy in his little finger than any amount of skill or talent in his output.
Also here's the link to his thread (since he's made his account hidden, lol what a faggot):
https://subium.com/profile/oweeeeendennis.bsky.social/post/3lsyyptk7yc2m
And I suggest everyone reading this to archive everything asap, b/c he's the kind of sissy faggot that goes into dfe mode every week.
https://archive.md/cB2RX

>>149265637
nice rage b8
now make yourself useful and go draw something, maybe you'll finally do something meaningful with your life

>>149265816
Healthcare is not gone today lmao
And you would be self employed

>>149265557 (OP)
I agree with everything except the healthcare thing. The last time I needed to go to the doctor was 15 years ago and it was to take the allergy tests. I absolutely could go 1 year without healthcare.

>>149265973
Titmouse is a great example of an american independant animation studio affiliated to no networks.
Even Disney, Nick and CN are starting to comission series from european/south american animation studios. There's a new untapped markets for indie studios actually.
The world of art was always full of uncertainty.

>>149266058
Yeah, I just dont like this guy pretending that the studios is the best option for artists when his own show was hella neutered by CN.

>>149265993
Which part is bait? "Artists" are whoring themselves out on social media for attention and complain that people only give likes to porn drawings instead of their original characters. Like the Toucan Terry guy.
If you want my money and attention then give me what I want.

>>149265884
>For all the bitching and whining she did about Disney she's actually trying to make a difference

Explain why Amphibia gets many books and Gravity Falls vynils while The Owl House gets nothing

>>149265973
>>149265982

People still prefer to go to networks, Ian J.Q decided to got to Disney to pitch his next show one month after Dana's show got at announced

Why are these people unable to do anything after getting high from getting big

>>149265557 (OP)
This sort of situation validates the necessity for a basic income. If we've such plenty and such efficency we should be able to afford people to live comfortable lives to make of themselves without needing to justify it with further profit. There's no logical point where you get chosen by the fates to be a multi-millionaire for people.

Communism would probably be more popular if it wasn't up its own ass about the smelliest ugliest faggots possible rn. Like, I wanna Eat the Rich, but not with those freaks.

>>149265558
>>149265637
Patreon was launched on this premise: that if you're an artist your only path is somebody rich throwing money at you to keep doing what they like to see. It's why artists and actors were viewed the same as whores back in the day vs now where we somehow elevated them to socio-political gurus.

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
>Infinity Train creator
You made shit that nobody watched because it was garbage. Opinion discarded.

>>149266021
they just passed a bill cutting healthcare for many unemployed people in the usa

>people who have made a name for themselves, have a previous show, a portfolio of industry work, and could easily find support for a new project
>having the balls to complain that it simply isn't good enough even though there are a million artists out there who will never have the opportunities, connections, or fanbase that they have
I'd rather industry nepos not be the ones making indie projects, I much prefer it when it's some unknown artist who would never have the luck to make it as far as these people did.

Keep the industry out of indie. I hope they all just stay in their lane making lame ass calarts cartoons nobody watches while passionate artists make indie projects on a budget. They don't always work out, but at least these artists are doing something because they really want to. It seems like industry people all see indie as a "fallback" and something beneath them, while actual indies are doing it because it's the only thing they can do.

>>149265557 (OP)
Soooo season 5 script soon?

What do these artists pretend to get when there is no demand for what they create? The blame is always on marketing, but do these animators ever consider the problem is at the root? He can't work indie because he knows he wouldn't succed, because his work has no appeal. I am no vivzie fan but her work immediately jumps to the eye. Put Infinity Train and Hazbin Hotel side by side and tell me which one is a teenager going to set aside their videogames to watch?

>>149265816
15 min us bare minimum, 2 hours is optimal

You don't need hand drawn Disney level animation. Henry Stickman gor popular. 3D animation that uses game engines got popular.

I think artists are pretentious and don't think in terms of creating an independent product first and think they must do recognized art first.

It is like indie devs trying to do AAA Skyrim killer.

>>149265557 (OP)
It really is all about the money for them, huh?

>>149266606
There's plenty of demand, the main issue is that if they're not doing LCD there's inherent risk and it's pretty much a non-starter if you have a niche fanbase.

>>149266640
We live in a capitalist society retard, things cost money to make and people need to work for a living. The only people that don't need to worry about that shit are nepobabies.

Americans still do that health care thing? Do they charge you to chop off bits of your dick when you're born or is that one free?

I think one of the big reasons why indie animation, and in general the whole industry, sucks is because they want Disney quality animation for shit that doesn't really need it. I mean have you ever wondered why adult animation looks like it does? You don't NEED every single scene to be hyper animated. It's why anime got so popular because they only animate what's actually important.

>>149266674
So art is not about passion anymore but money? No wonder AI is going to replace you guys, kek.
I hope you get a well paying warehouse job with medical benefits.

>>149266642
>niche fanbase
That's code for "portland" and "broke communists".

>>149266763
>So art is not about passion anymore but money?
It's always been a balancing act since the dawn of time. Were renaissance artists selling out by having patrons?
>No wonder AI is going to replace you guys, kek.
Oh you're one of those Indian grifters.
>I hope you
>you
Not an artist retard.

>>149266801
>Not an artist retard.
Than way are you giving me your stupid opinion when you don't even understand what it means to be an artist.
Go fuck off to the Kitty Katswell thread instead, you belong there. >>149237150

>>149266831
>Than way are you giving me your stupid opinion when you don't even understand what it means to be an artist.
Why are (You) then for that matter? You don't need to be an artist to understand what it entails or what you want from them, that's retarded. I'm not a chef but I can understand what goes into cooking and what I expect from it. I also know enough that I don't want flavorless slop drowning out everything.

>>149265558
>There used to be patrons of the arts.
Yes... and they paid those artists to make what THEY wanted, not what the ARTISTS wanted. A sizable chunk of patronage of the arts during the Renaissance was the Church paying artists to make frescos and murals for all their chapels and cathedrals, and the most of the rest was ugly aristocrats asking for portraits that made them look hot.

In other words - public works and fan art commissions.

>>149265993
Nah, get back in your chamber ungrateful dance monkey, you do as the customer says

The real main issue with Industry vs Indie is that there really isn't any actual any movement between them. Like ideally popular indie creators should get chances in the industry, you know, new blood with new ideas. But that really doesn't happen that often. Be it just how the industry is structured or that the people in the industry are elitist who see themselves as superior because their parents payed for them to go to an art school. Either way the industry is extremely insulare and stagnant. You have one kind of person with a unified set of ideas and it shows.
One of the most popular [as] shows of the past 5ish years were created by two indie animators. It clearly can work but unless your a specific square peg your not given a chance.

>>149267034
Industry people are made to be as competitive as possible to a degree where they just don't wanna welcome new people or new competition into the field. It's such a cut-throat environment where nobody is actually friends with each other, and they're all just trying to get their shot.
I know to a degree it was "always like this", but I think CN had the right idea of allowing all their creatives to make a pilot short and see where that goes. Then they just stopped doing that.

Posts like these show that fags here on /co/ literally do not work in the industry.

Anyways it's cuz LA is Uber expensive and studios don't want to find remote workers. According to studios it's better to have someone in house then some dickhead slacking off on discord. Also better control.

Unions run this industry in Burbank and pay is high . I know few folks at Flying Bark that get paid 69 hr to do their awful storyboards.

Healthcare is tied to employment and they have good healthcare. County is terrible.these fucks don't wanna go to county.

When your making 8000 a month you don't wanna fall off and falter.

It's funny how he thinks he's entitled to other peoples' money to do what he wants to do.

>>149267059

>but I think CN had the right idea of allowing all their creatives to make a pilot short and see where that goes. Then they just stopped doing that.

Just say it's the Discovery merger anon

He is at least half-right. American corporations hate to give their artists any kind of authority.

>>149265691
NTA but blow it out your ass if healthcare is the one thing you're sure is holding you down, get the fuck out, there's are millions of people who need medical attention more than you and rawdog it anyway to die at 60, shut the fuck up get out of the country nigger.
>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
People like this need to give up the cope arguments and just admit they're sell outs who want money.

>>149265557 (OP)
If nobody is paying for it you aren't an artist

But it's also true that nothing will change unless somebody takes a huge risk.

>>149265557 (OP)
"Pay artists what they're worth!"

Make something I want to pay for, lol.

>>149265558
>pay artists enough they can work on their own projects on the side
WTF?

>>149265816
Animation isn’t a 1-man job
Plenty of cartoons came from comics and storyboarding is a similar art. If you can’t show your stuff with a comic, you can’t with a cartoon. Then it can be put together as an animatic. I am literally doing this.

>>149267277
We're still in the post-Hazbin goldrush phase where everyone thinks they'll make a high quality pilot, gain a massive following, then get picked up by a network to fund their studio.

>>149266424
You have to work 80 hours a month (which is the same you have to right now for SNAP benefits so everyone does) to qualify for medicaid unless you're disabled or a large number of exceptions. You can work part time at Goodwill 4 hours a day for 5 days and qualify.
If you're self employed you worked 80 hours a month on your art or whatever is your business. I'm not a fan but it's still overexaggerated

>>149265816
the current obscenely rich people are still comissioning beauty and joy in the world
just look at furry porn, for instance

>>149267244
Alternatively
>"Pay artists what they're worth!"
I am.

>>149266183
>Explain why Amphibia gets many books and Gravity Falls vynils while The Owl House gets nothing
Because Disney didn't like the owl house and probably didnt like Dana. GF was dead in the water for years until Disney decided it was time to milk it which will likely be the fate of the owl house

>>149265557 (OP)
One of the bigger guys at Sony was also preaching the
>Just go indy bro! Do what you love!
Thing again on Linkedin a few days ago.

Every one of those assholes in their 30th year of working seems to have totally lost the entire concept of "The Dream" when the Dream is to make a living out of doing what you love. The Dream is not to do what you love in the spare hours you have between working a totally different full time job that pays all the bills.

>>149265558
There is just not going to be support for arts or artists until the boomers are very long dead and gone in the US.

America was very successful in making Art the scary gay broke liberal loser, communist drug addict catch-all term back in the early 1960s. No one wants their kids to do art, or go to art school, it conjures up all the images of Andy Warhol and Yoko Ono types that tape bananas to walls and talk about feelings. To the point where anything with artist attached to the title only brings up images of wall bananas. Boomers REFUSE to believe there is such thing as an art related career path in any industry anywhere no exceptions.

So they are going to be anti using taxes or startup money to fund the evil liberal communist thing that turns kids gay!

>>149266183
One is actually a show by someone who had a story to tell and did it well

The other is a really creepy love letter to a former college roommate using self inserts and real names while never attracting a single viewer younger than 23.

>>149265557 (OP)
>Infinity Train creator
You mean the guy that made a dogshit show and then made a blatant filler season when he knew that shows were getting canned left and right? Fucking lol.

>>149267893
Whelp, don't be a liberal faggot and get a real job loser.

>>149266183
In the case of Amphibia, I would not discount personality and work ethic. Braly planned out his show, doesn't seem to have a beef with anyone in the industry, hasn't caused drama with fans, played nice with Disney even after they made last-minute changes to season 2's finale, and whipped out books pretty quickly. He takes opportunities rather than waiting for the perfect one to come along. He doesn't push for others to make changes to suit him, he works with what he's got and makes the best of it.
In short, he makes it easy for the suits to say yes to him. The Houghtons probably do too. Terrace, not so much.

>>149265557 (OP)
If you are not willing to work on your passion project and support it
then I have no obligation to support you either.

Quit looking for handouts.

>>149265558
>there used to be patrons of the arts
he says that like there's not tens of thousands of artists making money off smut

>>149265606
...not anymore libtard, get a job

>>149266183
>Explain why Amphibia gets many books
Because Matt sticked with Tokyopop.
While Dana AND the writers refused to the deal because of low paymentt.
Either Matt accepted a lesser deal or Dana just unluckily got an unfair treatment.
>Gravity Falls vynils while The Owl House gets nothing
Supposedly there are rumors that TOH will get a Vinyl since Brad Breeck deleted his S2 and S3 music videos from Youtube and Soundcloud so I don't know.

>>149267893
>America was very successful in making Art the scary gay broke liberal loser, communist drug addict catch-all term back in the early 1960s.
>in the 1960s

>>149265920
Trying to create a new studio is an even worse idea because now instead of just you being a broke-ass nigga you've now got a dozen broke-ass niggas under the same roof and you're legally obligated to pay them money you don't have.

>>149265557 (OP)
If anons seem to want every animator to "get a real job" then how do people expect new shows to get made?

>>149265557 (OP)
It's anecdotal but imo my best work definitely came from having a job and needing to make my free time count vs being unemployed and fucking off all day because I can maybe totally do a thing later.

>>149265557 (OP)
>Also... healthcare? Hello?
Can these mutts ever make their point without being snide condescending assholes?

>>149265558
>There used to be patron of the arts!
Yes, because what artists used to be able to do was so spectacular that it defied reality itself. Of course people were going to pay da Vinci, Frazetta, or Rockwell for their mastery understanding of the arts.

Now we get tranny beanmouth slop made by narcissists artists who insist that learning how to draw stifles their creativity. No fucking wonder people are choosing AI.

https://youtu.be/exvJEilKgEg?si=Hs1BeIPKVPUH2aaV

The guy who made this did so on his fucking bus route to Blue Sky Studios every single day over the course of months. He spent all of his commute and a bit of free time chipping away at it until he had an animation short that he could submit to film festivals. I simply do not want to hear it from these people that it is "impossible" to work on anything in your free time when this dude was doing it on the fucking bus.

>>149268596
I don't think the anons who say that *want* new shows.
Personally, I'm kind of in a take-it-or-leave-it state when it comes to most western animation.
I'd rather people not suffer and lose their jobs, but I don't feel much over the loss of their potential shows/projects since I probably wouldn't have watched them to begin with, since they don't really make stuff for me these days.

>>149267893
That might be due to the fact that all artists actually are gay broke liberal loser communist drug addicts. There is no fault in calling a spade a spade.

>>149265557 (OP)
Why is having to get a job such a life destroying fucking tragedy to these art types anyway? Doing what all of humanity does every single day is just not acceptable to them.

>>149266276
Sure then go move to a communist country and go get that basic income because no one that doodles pictures is deserving of my taxmoney. I got a job and work it like I am supposed to because I want to earn a living for myself. People who don't do that are never deserving of someone else's hard earned dollar and never will be.

>>149266606
Nope, they blame marketing. if that fails then they blame executive meddling, If no one cares then they get to work saying the evil chud underground communication network conspired against them and forced people to not watch their slop.

They are willing to invent supervillain shadow organizations to keep from ever having to look inward and ask themselves if they possibly made a bad thing that no one likes.

>>149265816
>>149266620
The real issue is that if you want to make anything worth a shit, you are going to need a team. No one really cares about the simple 1-2 minute silent thing with a single character moving around. They want voices which means voice actors, music, which means composers, they want variety which means animating multiple different characters on screen at a time so double or triple that animating requirement.

Yes we know that simply ANIMATING alone is incredibly time consuming and takes a lot of effort to accomplish. But animating is like 30-40% of the overall process.
But you also need to make backgrounds
You also need voice actors
Some shots will have several characters in them so that's more work
you need editing when the shots are complete and then more work to make sure they mesh together seamlessly

anything anyone will give two shits about is going to be a team effort involving a lot of people who are not going to want to do this for free or for the exposure

>>149266763
Every single last goddamn thing in America is about the money. anyone telling you it's not about the money is a lying faggot who is trying to sound deep and spiritual but what they really want in life in a big car and a jet ski.

>artists' faces when nobody wants to pay for their black-coded trans furry inflation art they colored with period blood

>>149266640
Yes?

>I want my job to be the thing I like doing
Is not that rare and insane of a thing to want. Nobody likes the grueling soul crushing jobs that makes them suicidally depressed. They want some way to monetize their hobbies and interests.

Why is that somehow a bad thing?

Is it wrong that I love seeing industry animators and showrunners struggle?
I personally failed in my animation dreams so now I can only get fulfillment from seeing actual professionals become destitute
Personally, I hope every single celeb, musician, and ceo in Hollywood is forced to work retail for the rest of their lives
Same for the more successful "indie" animators
If I can't be happy, no one can

>>149267059
Cartoon Network also had Jessie Greenberg set herself up as the network talent recruiter and then only ever hired personal friends and contacts to any job that popped up. She personally made it a zero competitive place with herself at the top back in 2015. Now it's all dead and everyone lost their jobs....

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
This entire argument boils down to company animators seeing
>Indie Showrunner Before starting their show
Man it sure sucks living off of ramen in a shitty room I'm renting by doing 8-12 commission pieces a month for 60 hours a week. I sure hope that lump under my armpit is nothing.
>Indie Showrunner if their show is a acceptable success
Man working on my own show is so cool, I was able to get my own shitty apartment, drop my commission work down to 4 pieces a month, purchase deluxe ramen, and hire on 3-6 of my buddies part time so that I only have to work 40 hours a week. And if that lump does turn out to be something I can e-beg my fans if needed.
VS
>Company Animator when they first get the job
I get paid shit wage for working 40 hours a week and have to split an apartment with two other animators, but the deluxe ramen and vegetables are pretty good and my health insurance makes it so I will only have to go back to shitty ramen for half a year to recoup any medical costs.
>Company Animator after becoming a showrunner
I get paid a shit but better wage that lets me rent my own nice apartment with the chance of owning a house if my show gets super successful, and I get to buy real groceries from time to time, and I don't actually have to animate that much anymore since I have an entire team of 12 people making the episodes and a fleet of Korean animators doing the grunt work, just review others work and come up with new ideas. And if my doctors get back to me saying the lump is an issue then i will burn my savings to deal with it.

And not wanting to lose their marginally better quality of life.

That doesn't mean their work has more merit, and I was being a bit hyperbolic, but its easy to see why "Just go Indie" doesn't appeal.

>>149268964
Crabs.
>"if I can't do something I love for a living then no one should"

>>149268940
Same with Japan and Europe and every piece of art ever made

>>149265557 (OP)
>Pay artists what they are worth

We are, that's why you fags are out of work.

>>149269010
where did you get the no one should part from what I said?

>>149268998
Yes, but only because you wanted to go into animation yourself. That’s the devil’s work.

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
Oh look, more libfucks wanting to transform the entire functioning nation into a very non-functioning Communist one because they refuse to get jobs.

...where have I seen this before....

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
Keep in mind this guy notoriously talks a lot of shit that he later deletes. He made one big rant about NOBODY LIKE ANYTHING RELATED TO IP IF YOU WANT TO SUPPORT ORIGINALS and then went to make the Among Us cartoon. And is now desperate for someone to revive his old show, which is now a cartoon network IP.
He has a big ego for a guy who did one decent show and whos only other notable work is regular show episodes.

>>149268596
I want the woke fags that make gay slop to be permanently out of work so that they have to go get real jobs instead. It thins thew woke herd.

>>149265982
I guess the Among Us show didn't work out like he hoped.

>>149268998
I love seeing industry pros suffer because they've spent 20 years injecting bullshit into everything while belittling what came before. And the oldheads who are still around are too useless to gatekeep, so they can eat shit too.

>>149269046
You actually literally said that now quit being a faggot that moves goalposts.

>>149265558
>there used to be patrons of the arts
Didn’t they also have massive sway in what the artist did and didn’t make? I don’t know if that’s too different from how the wealthy behave now. Btw they prob invented orgies with lizard people back then.

>>149269094
Wtf? did it get cancelled

>>149268998
>>149269102
It is wrong in most cases.
It's not for Owen Dennis. Despite all his bitching, he is in way better position than most artists unemployed. He has enough reputation and fame to go pitch stuff to studios, which still gives him money, even if none of those ideas get made. Meanwhile other people worse off than him keep quiet and just keep making art when they can.

>>149265557 (OP)
>Also...healthcare!!!
Can't help but notice this pattern of terminally out of work losers who never draw a dime, and their want for "Free Healthcare"
There is just never ever any element of self awareness that there is no such thing as free healthcare. But I suppose it is for perma jobless assholes that live their lives off government tit.

>>149265993
Doesn’t seem like rage bait, artists being uppity is partially why ai art took off. There’s no whiny artist to deal with your concept just gets made as requested.

>>149269137
I wouldn't be surprised if they made 1 season and cancelled it. It's been radio silence since the first teaser and with zero updates from anyone involved other than him and the cast. At best we see it released later this year but with the knowledge that it is not getting any more seasons.
It was a stupid idea anyways, and I think he knew that going from his original IP to fucking Among Us is like a huge low in terms of animation careers.

>>149265557 (OP)
lmao Tiny Chef just did a successful campaign to fund his show. Sucks to suck.

>>149269025
Sorry to burst your fat bubble there Amerilard, but no. europe and Japan actually do have an understanding of the arts and the cultural enrichment of the arts for the sake of a people. But since you guys don't have a culture of any kind all you got is want money, buy mcnuggets, want more money for more mcnuggets.

>>149267064
Funny

>>149269160
How the hell does one make a show out of Among Us anyway?
It's fun to play but watching weird little non vocal goombas in space suits be mad at each other is not really entertaining to watch after about 5 minutes. Much less a whole season.

>>149267893
>Pic
Robert Pattinson isn't an artist, I mean by the basic definition he is, and acting is an art, but that isn't a good pic to shit on modern art, at least use the over bitched at banana like any other midwit.
Robert is just doing the weird celeb trend of using all their power to force galleries into showing their shit art along side Nick Cave, Johnny Depp, and various others.

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558

They want be hired by CN, Nick or Disney.
"Artists" who refuse publish his works comics or book, they always want be part of corporate slop of 2d Beanmouths

That people are in social media 24/7. You cant make productive work, bitching in x/twitter.

>>149266183


>>149266183
Amphibia has one book (a simple artbook) no a comic, graphical novel, etc. Same with Owl House.
Weird how creators refuse relaunch his IPs

>>149266349
>elevated to socio-political gurus
Nationalism is a hell of a thing, eh?

>>149269751

>Same with Owl House.

Where?

>>149269177
Anyone telling you it's not about the money is a lying faggot who is trying to sound deep and spiritual but what they really want in life in a big car and a jet ski.

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
99,99999% of art jobs are short freelancer jobs. So big gaming houses are not some cozy steady jobs either.

You guys are just mad at him for not taking the GLITCHpill

>>149269161
These people literally can't comprehend that their work just sucks and it's why it's not making money. They'll come up with a thousand conspiracies, theories, or scapegoats before they dare suggest, "Maybe not enough people like it".

>>149269143
Is it easy to get a job?

>>149269161
Now I need a Chad tiny chef vs virgin infinity train meme.

>>149270021

>>149265558
Just go furry.

>>149269487

>>149269788
>This is what Amerifats truly believe the rest of humanity is like

>>149270661
>Everyone besides [country I don't like because Reddit said] is doing it for SOVL there are no corporations in Japan and Europe
Naive underager

>>149268998
Get a load of this crab kek

>>149265819
That's what bugs me about the rant so much, he acts like the only way for anyone to possibly be an artist is to get a 100% livable wage from it. There are tons of people who just make art and animation as a side hobby to their main job, that's like half of what newgrounds and smaller twitter artists are. It both implicitly discredits all those artists with a pretentious "oh, I'm better than doing art as a hobby" aura to it, and makes it seem like you have no real passion for what you are making unless you are getting paid for every minute of it. Same with a lot of people's refusals to do webcomics to tell a more complicated story.

I think the problem is people assume going indie is to just make arthouse stuff for yourself or crowdfund. You know, there's actually always been a pretty healthy amount of independent animation studios that make stuff like advertisements. Even hand drawn inhouse. Its not prestigious work and its difficult to land consistently, but honestly you can make your bones with it, you actually tend to get plenty of creative freedom from people who just want a good ad, and it usually pays well as long as you're honest with people about the amount of effort that can go into it. You build enough of a reel over time and thats honestly as good, if not better than putting all your eggs making a pilot.

>>149265557 (OP)
dont worry, you won't have healthcare anyway now lmaaaaooo

>>149270974
Sometimes people treat a format as their goal. They must have a network tv show with a full season or a trilogy of feature films or whatever even though they don't even have a good idea to build on.

>>149266211

>>149267448
so unemployed people (and people who worked under 20 hours) won't have healthcare?

>>149270461
Tiny Chef has almost equaled as much fanart as IT in a shorter amount of time too

>>149271418
They want healthcare they can go get a real job like the rest of us.

>>149271418
No they just won't have medicaid specifically unless given an exception which they likely would be if they can't do 20 hrs a week
It's very overblown

>>149271418
That's what I voted for!

>>149270461
Kek!

>>149270461
TinyCHAD putting /co/'s lolipedos on suicide alert

>>149268667
>>149269130
Patrons didn't just pay artists for shits and giggles, they paid them to make the shit they wanted. The church paid for murals and stained glass to beautify their parishes and keep parishioners donating, lords paid for tapestries and paintings to immortalize their deeds and families, etc.

Any artist who gets into the life thinking they're only ever going to make things they want to make shouldn't expect to make much money doing it.

>>149271911
Kek, keep coping
>Make 4k a month making the shit I want on Patreon
You wish you were me
Better head to bed soon, mr goldstien won't like it if you're late to your morning shift at walshart

>>149271972
Congratulations that's an awesome spot to be in

>>149265557 (OP)
>retarded psychopaths race to announce they should be first up against the wall once again because someone who works for a living explains that refraining from working for a living to produce a personal artistic piece with extremely high risk and no safety net is not a serious proposition
what a surprise

>>149271972
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT, I HATE WORKING IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY
I hope all artists go broke, I can't take it anymore

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
>Youtube ads exist
>sponsorships exist
>making/selling merch is piss-easy these days, even no-name scribblers can do it via Makeship
>Patreon/Substar exists
>Ko-fi exists
>lots of crowdfunding options exist (pre-release Kickstarter-type stuff, I mean)
>TV cartoons flop regularly or just die after two seasons so there's no reason to go all-in and "join the big dogs"
>not all countries have health insurance tied to jobs
>entirely-online work projects like this means staff could work from anywhere, even places where the cost of living is basically nothing (move the FUCK out of CA, artists!)
>even if the indie project does poorly or flops, that's still a great-ass thing for a portfolio (unless it flopped BECAUSE of you specifically)

Has anyone ITT ever created anything substantial the indie way (at least 3 mins of animation)?
>inb4: "you don't have to be a cook"
I'm just curious

>>149271911
it depends on both the style of patronage and the artist. in the renaissance, yes, freelance artists generally worked to commission from wealthy aristocrats and merchants, but there is also a fairly established tradition of artists simply selling their works directly to that same type of people, who "patronize" the arts by buying the art rather than directly saying what the artwork should be. both forms still exist today even if the upper class art-buying scene is weaker than it was.

>>149265557 (OP)
a, yes, therapy train guy. of course im gonna put any value on what he said.

>>149272062
no
I flat out become exhausted after work
I'm unironically considering quitting and living in an RV
i bust my back 50 hours a week and I can barely afford my shitty studio apartment in a slum tier neighborhood surrounded by haitians. They're trying to raise my rent to 1.5k next month I'm about to lose my shit

>>149272026
Why don't you just switch to a trade? Genuinely, just put some money aside or go move somewhere where they will legit fucking pay you to go to trade school and set you up in a job that isn't going to make you miserable?

I work in HVAC and just go drive out to do maintenance and have enough time to come back home and do art stuff and enough money to not be stressed out, and its in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. Why even have it in your heart that you want to drag other people down when it'd be easy to just get yourself out of your own rut?

>>149272107
NTA but I fell for the trade meme and am barely making more than a walmart employee in my area

>>149271972
>Make ~7.5k gross a month working a job I enjoy
>Have actual benefits and job security
>Work reasonable hours and get ample time off
>Can tell people what I do without being embarrassed
>Don't have to constantly worry that at any moment I could cease to be the flavor of the month and my commission gibs will dry up.
lol, lmao even

>>149272159
what do you do, anon?

>>149272171
Engineering Physicist I

>tfw you were approached to pitch an original series by a streaming network recently for doing a bunch of indie stuff

I know it sounds like my uncle works at Nintendo bs. I feel really weird about it, everyone around me says the industry is dying and everything is horrible and for some reason I got handed a golden ticket that's going to demand a ton of responsibility.

>>149267157
>there's are millions of people who need medical attention more than you and rawdog it anyway to die at 60
Sounds like your country is fucked and in deep need of an armed revolution

>>149271911
Didn’t they also have to make propaganda for their patrons, though I suppose that part isn’t too different from today.

>>149272062
>Has anyone ITT ever created anything substantial the indie way (at least 3 mins of animation)?

I did. Too much work for little pay, even in super limited animation. I didn't go bankrupt because I don't live in the US. I don't regret it, but it was too exhausting to continue.

>>149272197
post your yt channel or you're lying

>>149272159
>commission gibs
How can something be both commissioned, and a gib? A gib is supposed to be something unconditional, while a commission is just a transaction (cash in return for product)

>>149272234
if you make money without working a real job, you're on gibs
deal with it

>>149272159
stability is nice, but there's an immense joy in being able to do what you want to do.
I would be happy in a climate controlled room with a comfy bed and the ability to draw when I want to. I don't need vacations or boats or being able to go out to fancy expensive restaurants.
I've had great experiences..and all of them pale in comparison to making art for me.

>>149272211
https://www.youtube.com/revampedroses

>>149272253
>ugly tumblr trannyslop

>>149265558
>>149265557 (OP)
They're right.

>>149267157
>People like this need to give up the cope arguments and just admit they're sell outs who want money.
Has anyone actually been offended by the accusation of being a "sell out?"

>>149272197
Even just the layman knows the industry's dying. Kids don't give a fuck about cartoons as much as they used to, and streaming just turns shows into binges where you don't have to watch reruns and your brain doesn't have enough time to latch onto the franchise, so then you move to the next show and immediately forget what the last one was called despite loving it.
The lack of reruns being a thing is something I feel goes a bit under the radar, IMHO.

>>149271911
Also depending on what timeframe it is, there's a high chance you might've been an apprentice, so literally all you've done your whole life is painting shit other people want you to paint, probably didn't even have a childhood, all while getting poisoned slowly by whatever ass-toxic paint your time has access to.

>>149272062
3D modeler/animator. Mostly short stuff. Got my Youtube permabanned because it was too naughty, heh. Mainly just run a tipjar these days, too busy IRL to actually do shit.

I guess he must enjoying working with Dana.

>>149272326
funny enough they've caught on to the middle market of "this looks like a kids show but is actually an adult comedy, so we can sell it to adults but realistically there's a ton of kids who will watch it to feel more mature" and are explicitly trying to greenlight stuff like that.

They're still trying to stick with the binge model, which is annoying, but I think you just have to respond to it by making shows with some more rewatch value that isnt dependant on lore.

>>149272244
>stability is nice, but there's an immense joy in being able to do what you want to do.
I agree, and it's a blessing if you can find something that lets you do both. Let me be clear, I'm not suggesting artists should be poor, I'm simply stating that if you go into a job, ANY job, expecting to only ever do the things you want to do, you shouldn't expect to make a lot of money at it. I enjoy my work, but at the end of the day I am making a product somebody else wants or solving a problem somebody else can't solve; and that's not all that different from how patronage of the arts has traditionally worked.

Historically, even up until well into the mid-20th century, artists who didn't come from the upper classes took commissions to pay the bills; from the wealthy, from governments or religious institutions, from business, etc. and used that to pay the bills and work on projects they were passionate about and establish themselves. The vast majority of Norman Rockwell's works were illustrations commissioned for Boy's Life, Saturday Evening Post, and other publications; the vast majority of Grant Wood's works were commissions for local businesses and schools. These people still found time to make great art outside of their commissioned works, but it was expected that making stuff other people wanted made was going to pay the bills.

Artists expecting to be paid to work on their passion projects right out the fucking gate is a very recent phenomenon. If you think can convince someone that a project you're passionate about is worth supporting, that's great, but it's naive to think that that should be the default.

I like Infinity Train, but Owen is a fucking retard.

>>149272479
>or, I'm simply stating that if you go into a job, ANY job, expecting to only ever do the things you want to do, you shouldn't expect to make a lot of money at it.
yes I know. Like I said I'm happy to just have enough for a small comfortable space and decent food.
I think one reason why Japan manages to have so many productive artists in so many fields is that the basic cost of living in Japan isn't bad. Entertainment is ridiculously costly in comparison to the US, but it fosters a big thrift/second hand market. If you want to find work drawing, it's a significantly less of a
You may not be rich, but you can make a living, which is enough for many people.

>>149265565
> other countries to get a shot
There’s nothing stopping them, retard.

>>149265739
> who just do it for its own sake
Yeah, because most of them aren’t good enough to go pro.

This is “people who don’t make anything chime in with opinions on how people who make stuff should make things” the thread.

>>149273326
Those who can, do
Those who don't, post on /co/

>>149273008
it's not as bad AND japanese people have been acculturated to make do with tiny hovels despite their country now being largely empty. but even there people are at their limit. japanese animation has been in a slow-motion crisis for years because they simply cannot find new local artists willing to put up with the conditions the industry wants them to endure for decades before a few of them can become new masters and do all the famous sakuga key animation the increasingly old masters have to churn out.

>>149265557 (OP)
>Uhh every artist does this?
>also I'm a fucking coward, I know my work can't stand on its own, I need healthcare, and what I really want is to keep working for a heartless megacorporation that just pays a little better
Transparent faggotry trying to disguise itself as some kind of misunderstood issue. If the only way you can create ANYTHING is under the auspices of some piece of shit company that hates you, then you aren't an artist. You're a corporate puppet.

>>149273651
was this not supposed to make you seem like a stupid posturing faggot?

>>149273326
This elitist attitude on behalf of an industry that can’t make hits ensures failure.

Also, you and your peers are free to read my work at any time.
>>149273362
Plenty of industry folks post here, you can be honest
And again, you have a curious definition of ‘can’. “Can be on the Titanic as it sinks”

>>149273664
>uh oh, got called out for dishonesty
>revert to a middle school mind and say an insult

>>149273664
Errmm excuse me sweaty???? Did you think you were being cool just now? Yikes.

Infinity Train was a mess.

>>149267064
lmao

>>149268998
I mean yeah it is bad
I know we get a lot of "if you even think to complain about things you don't like, you're rent free owned nerd" nowadays, but that's an excessive amount of energy for them
Just smirk when it happens and focus on what you like

>>149265558
Building rocket ships is a good thing and people still fund art.

Having all the main workplaces for animation be in super expensive cities is such a pain
Just hobbles the entire animation experience right off the bat and makes the career so much worse than it could be

>>149269161
>>149270461
lol
it really is a direct refutation of his whole statement
someone send him this shit

>bluesky
I don't even have a strong opinion on the indie vs. studio debate i just automatically discard any opinions from that site

>>149265557 (OP)
When ai takes over and they have to establish an ubi will you finally start working on your project or will you keep making excuses?

>>149273801
Probably not. If AI ever gets good enough to make a consistent animated series or entire books or even just comics without any of the jank issues of today's shitty AI, industryfags will still pretend like the only real and true way to make anything is by being an industryfag, who overpays their union dues, gets paid jack shit, can't afford to live in the hellhole Californian city that their industryfag job demands they live in, but they have the prestige and respect of their likewise broke-as-fuck industryfag peers.

>>149265557 (OP)
>Move somewhere cheap outside of California
>Pick up lower paying stuff that you can also do quickly
>Get comfortable with a lower standard of living
>Get comfortable having to stop working on your project for a couple of months to work some other kind of job when you can't find any illustration work
>Stop consuming alcohol that shit is expensive
>Stop dining outside so fucking often
>Learn how to promote yourself, promoting yourself isn't sucking up to someone bigger than you or trying to appeal to something you don't understand just because it's trendy
>Learn to take fucking criticism
There are people who didn't make it until they were 50, who the fuck do you think you are? You are no hot shit. People don't make it because they are better than everyone else they do so because they are easy to work with and are good at handling the audience

>>149273870
Owen DID make it, though

>>149273326
The issue is, "people who don't make anything" makes up 99% of the consumer market.
The people that you need to appeal to if you want to keep making things for a living.

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
There's some truth on what he's saying. A lot of artists and non artists got an idealistic vision of what an artist should be. Or a Scientist. Or a lawyer. But hell if everyone lives because someone wants our service or daddy wants us to live.
And you do what people who want you to live want, because if you don't, people won't care about you anymore.
To answer Owen, when your indie project flops, you start bitching around about and blaming audiences as Disney does when their shit flops. Or demand daddy government, or daddy Jeff to bail you out because you deserve to live. And man if there are a lot of those assholes.

>>149273939
The customer can go fuck himself
Cartoon fans should be forced to animate their own shorts each year

>>149265565
>biggest indie
That's like saying the tallest midget.
It's probably not American, but it's far from indie

>>149272095
>I flat out become exhausted after work
This is the sad, hard truth. Ed Piskor talked abut how he never really made any progress until he just took the leap and quit his wagie job.

>>149265739
Let's say there are a lot of artists, indie and studio backed, and just a little of them are good enough.
Like 1 good enough to actually good for every 200 shit artist that should work on anything else or starve.

>>149265816
>Venice
Let's be honest about that city. It really wouldn't survive if it weren't for bald rich people weddings. That place has been going empty for years.
But historically is an example of what happens when people in power try to stop social mobility. Artists go to Florence. Or Australia

>>149266763
Passion doesn’t pay rent or buy groceries. Money is importanr even if you don’t want it to be.

>>149267827
We could have ended the thread here

>>149267893
You sound like the kind of guy who's pissed his garage band didn't take off.

Besides literature, North America has never been a place of high art. The film industry had a good run for a short while then quickly became a money-laundering operation run by jews (though to be fair they were backing the film industry from the start so its their right to ruin it).
The american spirit is all about industrialization, expansion and profits. Art is driven by money first and passion second.
Everybody in america has been conditioned to only look out for themselves and treat everybody else in their country as an opponent.

muh freedom

>>149269942
People always bitch about how hard it is to get work, but the employment agency always had a job lined up for me until I found one that I stayed at, but what do know, I'm just a high school degree retard.

>>149274703
When people say its hard to get a job what they mean is that they want a sitting job with decent pay because the standing jobs that aren't niche environmental science jobs were deemed "shit work" circa the 90s and dumped on an underclass of browns.

The problem with these people is that they don't realize that no one is going to respond to their show, indie or industry funded.

>>149265557 (OP)
what sort of genetic failure are you that you need constant healthcare or else you'll die? I haven't gone to a doctor of any sort in a decade.

>>149266606
consider the mentality of the sort of person who pursues art as a career. they tend to be rather self-important and 'feels before reals', and rarely have good business sense.

>>149274551
I think that's partially true but if that's the only problem, at least there would have been more attempts to make a new studio to make big money. That didn't really happen.
I'm pretty sure that there are some other factors when it comes to American kids media.

>>149265565
>>bsky
why are you posting from a pedophile site?

>>149265557 (OP)
Americans (or rather californians) shouldn't be making cartoons, period.

>>149269152
But I see programmers, writers and historians complaining about AI as well. I mean people get angry at auto dubbing and being forced to use AI for regular white collar work. Teachers and scientists are giving evidence AI is making people dumber. Even /g/ has debates about AI. Shouldn't Duolingo have gotten away with replacing most of it's work force with AI?

>co being delulu as usual
Truth is the indie model is NOT sustainable long term. It’s a way to get into the field through the back door sure, but there’s a reason Medrano got established companies such as Bento Box and Amazon to help with her show as soon as she could. Even GLITCH is sucking up to daddy Bezos nowadays.
And also massive survivorship bias at play here. These are just the indies that made it. Plenty others fail and we never hear from them again.

>>149268998
Bro, while I wholeheartedly agree with you on that, you just chose one of the most difficult paths in terms of what art means. Instead of getting scammed by the whole "muh animation" thing, you should’ve started with something simpler, like creating comics or shorts. Again, I get the sentiment because I like to hate too, but damn, you really set yourself up for a tough start from the beginning.

>>149272197
Do it, theres nothing else to loose if the industry is truly dying, you at least get to say "I've tried"

>>149266349
>as whores back in the day
No, anon, that was never true. There where times artists were seen as work for hire. But since greece and egypt emerged, artists were specialised workers. This whore-thing is a myth and only applys to certain lesser categories of art.

>>149274537
It was never meant to be a real band, but a living piece of art screaming that the failure of one’s Seattle dream leads to red complacency and bitter regret it’s why the “band” was called bitter reds. It’s very advent guard I hope you can appreciate the simpleness of it now that I had to spell it out for you. Swedish fish?

I mean I work a shit job and make my art in my free time but whatever

>>149276098
And what kind of art is it?

>>149275312
AI is a tool and it’s not going away, but we absolutely need to learn to use it intelligently and responsibly. That starts with using it to do the things it’s good for, i.e. tedious, repetitive, rote shit that is time consuming but requires little creative or critical thinking, and not using it as a total replacement for those skills.

>>149269900
Everyone working at Disney acts like they're supposed to have the golden touch like we aren't 2 decades in to a downward spiral where they throw gobs of money at shit trying to get things to stick. If you want to make money at Disney, you have to be the one making the money. RDJ didn't just show up and start collecting a paycheck, he acted his ass off and did a bunch of cameos, and then everyone who managed to get a bit part in Infinity War and headline a movie because they didn't make RDJ money suddenly acts like "where my gibs?" Who the fuck was working on Elio and said "CG films about kids and aliens sure have payed off! Lets do another one! And release it a few months after a Lilo and Stitch live action remake!"

And I mean this isn't some new MO for Disney. They've been on a roller coaster of success and burnout for a damn century. I swear to god though, blame the fans is the funniest shit I ever see. It means you fundamentally don't understand what the fans wanted to begin with.

>>149266349
>>149275890
What we truly need is to go back to the Roman view, where any work involving your hands, including art, is for the lowest in society, and unsuited for free men, with only farming being an honorable physical trade since it actually produces what every single human needs.

>>149276401
>Cicero
You mean the guy that flip-flopped whenever it convenienced him, ended up being so incompetent that he was kicked out of the Senate and banned from being within 400 miles of Rome, and later died like a bitch?

>>149269130
Yes and no. Simply being able to produce art, especially realistic stuff, was already impressive enough for monarchs to want to keep you around. Obviously they would want specific stuff made once in a while, like a portrait of themselves or their family, but often the artist could mostly do what they want, since simply having a painting collection was impressive enough.
Cornelis Gijsbrechts work during his patronage at the Danish royal court is a good example of this.

>>149276305
>Outsourcing is a tool and it’s not going away, but we absolutely need to learn to use it intelligently and responsibly. That starts with using it to do the things it’s good for, i.e. tedious, repetitive, rote shit that is time consuming but requires little creative or critical thinking, and not using it as a total replacement for those skills.
Same shit, different day, and retards like you will still fall for it thinking you'll be the one controlling the "new tool" and not just replaced by it because it's cheaper.

>>149276401
So let me get this straight: farmers are based because all humans need food, but brick makers are cringe... because humans don't need houses to live in?? What about janitors and plumbers? They do very lowly and humiliating work but the entire society still relies on them.

This sounds like just another set of arbitrary standards by a delusional ignoramus who can't see past their nose, and I don't mean Cicero

>>149272031

>>Youtube ads exist

Goose has stated that Youtube has fucked GLITCH alot beacuse they think TADC is for kids

>>149276682
It's a shitpost anon. Obviously a world view made during the fucking ancient period wouldn't work today, wether or not it might even have a been a fair view back then. I just think the idea of not only lumping artists in with manual labor, but then also call all of them plebs, is funny. It's just an extreme version of shitting on the "uneducated" style of snobbery you still see today.

>>149266183
>>149267937

It's funny to see how Disney's relationship with Matt Braly and DanaTerrace is.

Day and Night

Heck even Alex is more nice to them beacuse the previous excs who worked with him are gone

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
>Sellout continously tried to justify himself
No shit

>>149268931
I swear to got I always thought the animator in this bit was supposed to be my uncle because he looks a lot like him and was doing storyboards for fox at this time.
He directs now and he hates it

>>149276753
the execs who Dana worked with are gone too. Dana just doesn't want to stick in the same show forever and because DTVA sees show as this very serious show that doesn't fit into the samey slice-of-life shows.
Also Tokyopop being ass too.

>>149267277
>If you can’t show your stuff with a comic, you can’t with a cartoon. Then it can be put together as an animatic
Way of the Househusband did this and honestly it looked better than like 90% of stuff coming out today.

>>149276880
Shows like to model one-off characters as various staff members
It wouldn't shock me

>>149277047
I asked him recently and he said it was someone else

>>149276988
More like she burned too many bridges during her time at Disney and realized her only option was indie.
She didn’t “choose” to abandon the industry as a rebellious act, if Sony had come to her for a movie she would have bent backwards to them. Sugar and Matt did for that movie they’re making together, nobody wanted to approach Dana.
But if anything Owen should realize he’s in the same boat and jump ship.

>>149265819
>You don't need to live in LA for whatever reason.
The reason is connections, but if you're indie, then no, you don't need to live there. This faggot's issue is that he's got so much corpo cum up his muppethole that it's soaked his brain and he can't imagine any other way to be. Sad.

>>149272428
SBA is just biding time til Glitch picks her idea up

>>149269751
Amphibia has a graphic novel coming next year which is a continuation of the season 3 finale.
Not like owl house at all.

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149268596
I think the industry sucks for sure and I'd rather it get better. But in this instance I'll say that I feel like he's WAY too dismissive of the concept of working indie. People keep talking about HOW MANY talented artists are out of work. I feel like the sheer quantity of that makes me feel like even if everyone had a 9-5 and drew during their down time we could theoretically have a feature length film made in 2 years or so just out of sheer volume. Now maybe not every person who chipped in would get a return on investment, but if the thing is a success it may lead to more money and opportunities later. And in that case you're on the ground floor of this new enterprise and are basically grandfathered in.
Of course the downside is you basically work for free for an amount of time, but at the end of the time you're still doing what you love. Which is better than starving to death NOT doing what you love.

>>149265557 (OP)
How come no one is talking about how little Japanese/korean/filipino(most powerful race) animators make?

>>149277211
It's kind of an interesting Dichotomy. Shit pay in an industry that will ALWAYS have plenty of work for you. Or BETTER pay in an industry where jobs are incredibly scarce.

>>149273670
>Plenty of industry folks post here, you can be honest
Not anymore they don't. At best you'll get a handful of YouTube guys or webcomic dudes, all the actual industry types fucked off many years ago.

>>149277085
>More like she burned too many bridges during her time at Disney and realized her only option was indie
You are so wrong.
lol
She chose Indie... more like Glitch because it would be the only way to pitch new ideas since major studios now want revivals or reboots.
And Amazon has a bad reputation of accepting lesser deals in order to do stuff.
>if Sony had come to her for a movie she would have bent backwards to them.
What if she didn't want to make a movie? lol
Specially when Dana took a break after she finished TOH since showrunning shows makes you feel burn out.
People need to realize that Dana's situation is not as controversial as people think. Specially when Dana left Disney because her contract expired (just like Matt). Dana just feels "liberated" because she historically had a experience working in DTVA, specially when working with the Tangled series where she said that the showrunner was an asshole which most of the crew of the show agreed.

>>149276988

The exc that axed TOH still works on Disney and you can still see his name in one of the shows they air

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXlhecQ1UUw&pp=ygUsem9tYmllcyB0aGUgcmUgYW5pbWF0ZWQgc2VyaWVzIGZ1bGwgZXBpc29kZXM%3D

>>149277253
>all the actual industry types fucked off many years ago.
because their fragile egos can't take people talking smack about their work.

artists need to grow a fucking spine.

>>149272298
Who is the fuck doesn't want to sell out anyway? What kind of insult is that supposed to be?

Fucking everyone wants their band to hit it big and become rock stars. Everyone that doodles a picture wants to be the next Matt Groening.

>Fucking sellout!
Has to be the chant of someone who is so insanely jealous of someone else's success that they actually have to literally rage out loud at them. God damn everyone doing a thing wants to get rich off doing that thing.

>>149270974
animators dismissal of comics is an underdiscussed topic and a real hangup on their part

>>149278349
It's not prestigious enough for them. They view it as a step down from media, and also it's something they look down on as typical nerd entertainment while they consider cartons to be the cool important thing that lets them rub elbows with Hollywood types.

>>149277183
this also reminded me that doing animation for vidya games isn't a bad idea either and number wise there's probably far more vg animators than cartoon or movie animators given how big games are
it might be cheap work but there's always someone looking for an animator or artist for their game

>>149277734
Because their jobs depend on a squeaky clean reputation in the eyes of very politically minded, terminally Twitter addicted producers that are quick to label someone as the super secret hidden Trump fan, MAGA supporting white supremacist that infiltrated their ranks. 4chan since 2016, is assumed to be all /pol/ everywhere and anyone that touches it is clearly a right wing troll looking to screech about minorities all day and night.

>>149278441
>4chan since 2016, is assumed to be all /pol/ everywhere
Let's be honest... 4chan since 2016 basically *is* all /pol/ everywhere. Occasionally we manage to keep a couple dozen on topic threads going on most boards, but the rest is all /pol/ spam.

>>149278349
>Just make comics bro
People who say this have never made one. I've done it and it's even more tedious and unrewarding than animation so I just animate shorts when I can

>>149278457
unrewarding in what sense

>>149265739
normal people have bills
every single one of those people want financial independence to be able to do their work. being paid to do their work is the same and more plausible than that

when art is something you have to do on the side that means you are more limited with your time and dedication.

>>149277734
It's more people in general aren't coming here anymore because it's mostly bots, autists, and crabs in a bucket fags compared to what it used to be. I'd be surprised if 4chan survives to the new decade honestly, it's hemorrhaging that many users and it's only getting worse.

>>149273939
consumers are morons, they want to pretend that hotdogs are made of magic and love

>>149278464
>less pay
>more work
>no one buys comics
>it seems the only time a comic gets attention is when someone fucks
the market just sucks and has sucked for decades.

>>149276694
I mean, it kinda is. TADC doesn't have a lot of stuff in it that says otherwise.
No boobs, cuss words are censored, everything's cartoony, all the death and glitch stuff is G-rated (PG at worst). If he didn't want the show getting flagged as a kids show, he really should've given the girls boobs or and made it a gag that Caine keeps making them cover up or he makes them disappear whenever he's around.
People joke about Skibidi Toilet being dumb shit for kids but even that has busty TVs and a fuckload of guns.

>>149265557 (OP)
You know, it wasn't all that long ago this guy was a massive ego faggot who flaunted his
>Excuuuuuuse me? I invented Infinity Train! Yes I am THAT more important than you!!!
Which I'm sure turned off a number of people from wanting to hire or work along side this guy. It's not really all that surprising that he is having trouble finding work these days.

>>149278553
>he

>>149273801
We are not going to be establishing ubi, people can just get jobs elsewhere like they always have throughout all of history when new technology ends an antiquated dead end career path. We are not going to embrace communism because some art school fags cannot make doodles for pennies any longer.

>>149278553
The fact that they also constantly shill literal toys of marketable cartoon characters doesn't help them either.

>>149273858
Pretty much this. It's really all about sitting at the cool kid's table and being a part of the clique. Which is why they gatekeep like fucking mad everywhere they can. They don't want to know how skilled you are, how creative you are, how much of a problem solver you are, they want to know how cool with the in-group you can be. That's it.

And AI and streaming are really fucking up their little artificial world they created for themselves. Going indy means skilled creative people who personal motivation can rise to the top without their personal stamp of approval to allow it to happen.

>>149265557 (OP)
I live in America and I get free healthcare that covers everything because I'm not working.

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
Can they sound less of an asshole when making their point?

>>149278581
UBI will probably come but America will allow hundreds of thousands if not millions of citizens to die before they do so.
If you believe normie jobs are safe then you're being naive. At best, physical trades made be immune (until robotics) and even then, as more people flock to them, it will drive down the wages. Especially if they can get some immigrant to do it for slave tier pay.
Society is running out of "career metas" to follow (go to college/learn to code/learn a trade).

>>149274170
Well no shit. Venice has been the rich guy party spot for the last 500 years at least. Especially super wealthy fantabulous Mardi Gras there that only wealthy socialites and nobles can get in on, that has been active since the mid 1400s.

Venice was established by wealthy elites looking to get away from the barbarian rabble, and then later supported by vacation elites from the rest of Europe. It was ever always a rich guy party spot.

>>149278400
>>149278464
there are far less eyes in comics.
Just like how animating a loop of porn makes you a god in the porn world, the same thing goes for still images.
It's not about some perceived elitism, it's about the simple fact that most people see a character as a character when there's a voice and movement attached.

>>149266276
Basic income happens on every reservation and as someone who's dad was born and raised on the rez & who has spent my entire life living on or near a rez, go visit a rez a see how basic income works in reality

>>149278602
Yeah, it’s called Medicaid. I don’t get why fags act like they can’t get healthcare when they’re poor.

>>149267448
You can also qualify by doing community service or volunteering

>>149278553
yeah I don't have sympathy for yt creators making kid stuff getting mad for being labeled kid stuff
especially when they start spamming swears and gore to get out of it

>>149270974
YouTube and twitch are filled with people making a living doing art. Guy's just pissed no one likes his shit

Is there a reason many anons seem to dislike /co/ creators/animators so much?
Like, it honestly feels like a genuine disdain. People here seem to get excited when an animator fails

>>149278581
Socialism (which might as well be Communism to you) is going to be embraced more and more as people get more frustrated. The old boogiemen of communism can only work for so long and people under 35 don't have the USSR as a frame of reference as a collapsing example of a communist nation.
Bootstaps and just telling people to get a job will only go so far when people find they can't advance as well as people could in the past with similar work. The whole selling point of capitalism for the common man is the ability to advance yourself- which many people find isn't happening.

>>149272326
Kids don't care about major corporation cartoons. Look how popular skibidi toilet & shit is. It's not kids don't care, it's that everything from across the world is accessible with the touch of a button so they have unlimited options now & don't have to settle for the trickle provide by legacy media companies

>>149278575
This is no laughing matter anon.

>>149278711
i honestly hate the idea of cartoonists and animators making money when that's what I've always wanted to do but can't

>>149278711
With a few exceptions, most /co/ creators are upper middle class Californians with matching politics.

Guys the problem is that anyone who went to school for animation went into it being sold on a stable office career job that would pay off their debts, but now that the industry is contracting there are a bunch of people who have more bills to pay than the average wagie without the means to pay for them from the career they picked out.

This has fucking nothing to do with being an artist.

>>149278711
4chan has always been a bunch of crabs in a bucket. Always jelly and angry towards those who are living their dreams, because their own are dead.

>>149278711
Because they couldn't make it.
I think a lot of people realize they're better off working their normie stable jobs for more money- but I don't think there's anyone here who didn't at one point have at least a moment where they wanted to make their own cartoon

>>149278711
See, you're focusing on the wrong aspect of these people.
/co/ doesn't hate creators/animators. /co/ hates obnoxious fags. They get exited when obnoxious fags fail.
It just happens that most of the obnoxious fags that /co/ talks about are those in the comics and/or cartoon fields, since that is what the board is about.
I hope this clears things up.

>>149278711
>why do you guys hate the people that drove the industry into the ground!? ;;

>>149278711
Almost all of them are this guy >>149267064 and they also react to viewer complaints with contempt, "not making it for you." Yeah well I guess you're not making it for anyone now, huh?

>>149274551
Well no shit. The nation was established by the English. Possibly the only wealthy European nation that never once
>Produced a fine wine
>An opera
>Classical elite painter
>5 star chef
And their most notable monumental construction is a clock.

Brits are not a high art kind of people. They rivet steel together and make useful things but not interesting things to look at. They make trains and bridges, not art.

>>149265557 (OP)
These people expect everything given to them instantly instead of actually working for it.
Real art takes dedication and time. And not to mention there's been a bajillion indie toons that have come out and made by people with 0 budget.

>>149275371
Indy is just a method to get to profesisonal studio work. It's just something people do to get the big studios attention to either have their worked picked up or just hired to a job by them. Indy itself has no long term goals other than bait out a job from a new employer.

>>149268998
>Is it wrong that I love seeing industry animators and showrunners struggle?
Only if they worked, or have worked for the big ones. Corporate cock suckers don't deserve happiness.

>>149278753
Why do people here think all animators are just born in California? People move there, like they do with any other entertainment industry.
Producers and entertainment executives live in California, so that's where the animation industry is(along with many other entertainment industries. Animation is basically a satellite to all these production studio's live action productions)
And yes, once you're getting regular pay , you can be middle class. That should be expected to. If you're going for the fact that almost all of them come from middle class backgrounds, but your prospects for anything if you're truly dirt poor are low no matter what career you're getting into. Most people went to college on loans. It's hard for people who are poor to get loans. But animation schools aren't particularly more expensive than what other colleges cost.

>>149269143
Health care is very expensive in the US and jobs subsidies the cost so yeah, pretty much you can't afford health care if you don't have a job, which even then probably isn't going to cover everything.

>>149278581
Do you have any idea how much government revenue is sprayed around on medicare and social security? Or this year they spent $17K per child per year on primary education in the US. If the evil billionaires were trying to grind people into dust they'd be dust.

If AGI starts this year and the economy grows ten times over in the next 20 years there will be enough to piss away giving people a lower middle class lifestyle for nothing.

>>149278711
few differing reasons
jealously
/pol/ shit (biggest reason most likely)
some creators really are just annoying
general dislike of the industry not necessarily related /pol/ shit
bait (ai is the new basedjak in terms of getting angry replies if you haven't noticed)

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
He is right but he types like an insufferable faggot. Hope he never works in anything again.

>>149270974
It goes both ways. I hate when people bitch when artists want money. Like some people Honestly think artists shouldn't be paid at all for their work while still demanding them to dance on a whim.

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
Then just give up nigga, damn.
People are just saying that for the first time in a very long time the indie space is a viable path especially if you have experience.

>>149278655
People really don't understand just how reservations are almost universally ghetto shitholes run by mafia and populated by meth addicts.

>>149272197
I meam, just remember you're dealing with the devil. Whatever it is you're pitching is going to be their's.

>>149278711
10+ years of wokeslop and brown lesbians in every single fucking show ever. Even the ones that started out good and fun turned into brown lesbians wokeslop by season 3. Then the whole crews of shows joined Twitter and got to work shitposting and insulting everyone they could. It's like a horde of angry Dobson clones took over all corners of the industry around 2016ish.

Entire industry is in dire need of a hard reset, and that can only happen if everyone there now loses their job and is gone.

>>149273326
Well you ain't making anything I want to buy sooooooo....

>>149273979
nta but this was the case for me. you’ll hear retards repeatedly tell you that your art should be something that you “do on the side,” but the truth is that you’ll get absolutely nowhere if you treat it as a leisurely past time. your skills stall out and you stop improving and your output will always be too sporadic and low unless you’re on it all the time.

>>149278575
I don't need to look the show's creator up to know it's created by a guy, or at least someone born one. Definitely not a manly man gigachad type person since there's no giant tits anywhere, but still.

>>149278711
Depends on who fails, anyone just universally cheering at EVERY creator that fails, good or bad, is just a dick.
The issue is that a lot of creators are just annoying and whine a lot.
>politics
>their show with niche appeal isn't getting picked up, and they're MAD
>their show with niche appeal isn't liked that much, and they're MAD
>"I work hard, therefore I should be -guaranteed- a living wage no matter what, no strings attached"
>"I work hard, therefore I should be SUPER MEGA RICH."
>"Stop complaining about [shit cartoon/game/movie], that's a fast way to ensure you get blacklisted from the industry forever, you dirty chuds" [smug.jpg]
>"Watch my content because I'm [minority race/sexuality] and that's an objective good because ???"
>whines about cost of living despite choosing to live in California
>drops everything to fight AI despite that pushing back timelines and damaging their personal success, ironically letting AI catch up faster
>"My content only failed because of basement nerds and literally nothing else because I have no sense of accountability and all my problems are because of someone else."
>believes the "starving artist" is a new thing and exists for literally no reason other than the 1% being greedy
>"AI made my Patreon flop" (they've been running that Patreon since 2015 and AI made no impact)

This is art. I would pay for this.

>>149278836
...there is an awful lot of this. Everyone who graduated with an animation degree in the last 4 years is basically turbo fucked in every way and working a job they hate to make ends meet.

While the extra salt in that would is that they grew up in the one small era of people actually being able to pitch their own animated series to major networks. Only to graduate in the year it ended for good. Now that era is done and we are back to the old ways of toy tie-ins or remake of old property.

This is not art. I would not pay for this.
And let's stop calling every monkey who is holding a pen an artist or letting him get away with calling himself an artist.

>>149278979
Still the limiting factor is you. YOU have to get the fuck up and go get an actual job for the healthcare. No one is stopping you. You are the only one stopping you.

>>149279014
>I hate when people bitch when artists want money.
I don't mind them wanting money, as long as they don't bitch about people not treating their shit like art.
Don't call yourself an artist if you're a merchant, especially not if you don't have craftsmanship either.

>>149279056
>Entire industry is in dire need of a hard reset, and that can only happen if everyone there now loses their job and is gone.
100 percent agree, heck the video game industry is already doing that and getting rid of all the progressive grifters who don't even develop games.
>>149279080
Reminds me of Seadramon from Digimon, pretty badass though.

>>149278980
It's not nothing, it's my taxmoney being taken and handed to someone else for breathing. It overly punishes the working class and rewards the lazy jobless class. Money does not just pop out into existence, it's taken from those who actually do work and produce for a living.

>>149278915
you are the obnoxious fag

>>149272428
A mistake on Glitch's part

>>149279118
>no one is stopping you!

You aren't a blue collar worker are you?

>>149279073
I always see anons say they do art on the side and they never seem to have much worth showing.

>>149279153
Now you're getting it.
It has nothing to do with them being creators/animators.

>>149279132
>Reminds me of Seadramon from Digimon, pretty badass though
I know! I just noticed it myself! The art is by Roger Dean. His art is beautiful. Psygnosis used to use it in their Amiga game covers.

>>149279080
This is exactly what AI is there for, and it's free.

Season 3 was trash

>>149278498
They could kill 90% of the bot traffic by just enforcing a basic samepost filter.

>>149279132
>Progressive grifters
Such as? And even if they exist, they don't bring in the same number as anti woke grifters

>>149279305
If they kill the bot traffic then the website traffic would look even more dire so of course that would never happen

>>149279427
I'm talking more about the people who get jobs based off skin color and gender and not talent.

>>149265557 (OP)

>>149279436
>If we stop letting people use our flower bed as a public toilet, they'll realize we have fewer flowers!
Honestly, a decrease in traffic from mainstream web users wouldn't be the worst thing to happen to this place.

>>149279453
So you are just mad at the things that only exist inside your head. Cool, cool

>>149279491
NTA but it doesn't matter if you manage to gaslight some rando on the internet. What matters is money, and people won't give it to you even if they are made to shut up.

>>149279491
No?
Seems like you're mad because I don't waste my money on faggot shit. Its my money, I can choose what I do with it.
And gaslighting isn't gonna work I'm afraid. You can pull the "you're getting mad in your head" all you want, but I choose to simply not pay for shit I don't like.

>>149279485
Maybe but Gookmoot is running this place from a purely financial standpoint, he has zero interest in the actual health of the community because he doesn't use it.

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
>bitch bitch bitch
WHY is every artist like this holy shit

>>149272428

I don't like Dana but i'm glad for SBA, last year she mentioned that she wanted to become a NSFW animator if she didn't find any industry work.

>>149278711
It's a mix of crabs in the bucket and the entire western creative sphere basically telling everyone who is on 4chan or who's like the anons on 4chan to fuck off, eat shit, and die.

>>149276753
>>149265884
>>149266183

Dana kinda killed any chances of TOH getting books after her whole schizo meltdown when Disney banned that Moon Girl episode.

>>149279471
thanks shaq, based as usual

>>149269063
He wants his old show back? I stopped bothering with infinity train after the Simon season.

>>149281194
He wants to feel special again after not doing anything that brings in twitter followers that adore him.

>>149278711
I hate most modern creators/animators because they are almost exclusively upper middle class white/white adjacent millennials that use cartoons as way to project their trauma and sexual inclinations often onto underaged characters. The problem lies in the fact that they regard their insincere writing and gross pandering as some great service to the world that will inspire generations to come and if you don't like your every ist/ism/phobe under the sun.

>>149280350
>bitch bitch bitch

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
a lot of cope. just go indie

>>149281552
I mostly like actiony stuff and I rarely get that from the indie cartoon scene. It's mostly the sfm/blender creators who give me a steady supply of that. I love those guys cause they're typically the least BS and just post their stuff.

Watching Sodaz shift from 40k (after Games Workshop cracked down on him) to Halo, Titanfall, STALKER and Fallout animations was fun.

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
>You should go indie
>I don't know how to monetize it

>>149279642
>>149279665
>No examples yet
>Samefagging
Yeah, totally not mad at the voices in your head

>>149272197
Can you elaborate? Are you already in the industry or some random and they just hit you up in dms? Did a video of yours go viral and they want that to be a show? Genuinely curious on all the details of the process

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
Nothing that he said is wrong.

>>149279080
Timeless looking art. Looks like it could have been made today.

I don't really have a response to this that hasn't been said throughout this thread, but I just want to say that I've always hated this big fat faggot ever since he equated critique of CN's shit generic art styles to farting (real clever, Owen. I'm sure a million unfunny vapid fatass californian retards like you haven't made the same joke before). He is so constantly goddamn condescending every time he opens his mouth it's honestly unreal.

>>149269063
This

>>149265557 (OP)
Jorgue Guitierrez did it

>>149279209
Die in a fire
>>149279277
Correct

>>149279049
Well naturally, but I'm actually okay with that and they laid out some reasonable terms if they pass on it. I'm not too precious with ideas, even if it got sent into the tax break shadow realm I'd just take the money and make something else on my own.

>>149282331
You're on the money but they were more interested in me selling them an original pitch for a pilot

>>149276694
Animation is for children.

>>149285971
I have never wanted to shit in a human being's lungs more than when some fucker like you contributes to the stunting of animation as an art form with this mind set.

>people learn about economics forces for the first time, but still don't understand human wants and desires don't always align

>>149282219
You are a nigger. Gamer Gate was a thing and regardless of which side you are on, it proves there are people willing to play sides to get into games. Try to gaslight some more and see if that makes antone any less sick of your shit, and on /co/ of all places. Try Twitter next time you mega faggot.

>>149286130
Worthless chud

>>149286130
Please, autistic gamergate retards were last month burning mad in social media about all of the INCLUSIVITY HIRES in Bethesda and when they got told that all of the women who showed up in the development announcement interview were employees for long long years now their reaction was to just go "UH DOESNT MATTER CUZ THEY DYE THEIR HAIR".
There is no reason to assume there is some kind of massive glut of third world transexual immigrants invading the highly expensive Los Angeles animation industry, most of the mare rich kids born and raised in USA and thus most of them are white or asian, it feels like you're simply coping badly with the fact that most people in the USA with an interest in fine arts are leftists and thus, by sheer mathematical force, most of the millenials working in animation there will be the kind of people who genuinely want to make shit like The Owl House.

>>149284564

Didn't the guy defended Primos and fucking Emilia Perez?

>points out how the "go indie" meme comes from people who don't actually work in the industry
>all the backseat animators and industry artists of /co/ give their horrible advice

Pottery

>>149280496

And that was the only time she gave a shit about any other DTVA cartoon that wasn't Amphibia.

She didn't bother to mention Hailey's On It! despite that many of The Owl House crew went to work on that show,

>>149287655
Not from what I remember

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
>people offer a solution to your problems
>noooo I cant do that
dont get into the art industry if you dont want to learn how to become your own boss because you will be taken advantage of

Seth Macfarlane is a very good example of an artist that was able to make it into mainstream because of his business sense. Until artists can learn business as well as art, they'll always be devalued.

>>149272159
depends on what you value in life i guess. No way of living is "wrong" if thats what you want

>>149266183
they didnt like Dana point blank lol. I wouldn't like her either. So its a good thing for the both of them that she's doing things on her own.

>>149287578
This is some really weird ESL babble.

>>149278639
Well, not really. It kinda would have been if richer people existed back then. And when filthy rich people started to pop out around 1600, they preferred their possessions in their own countries.
The sad thing about Venice is that it really didn't recover from their war with the Turks. Not so much from the Turks themselves but from the Atlantic navigation and other established but lesser used land routes that avoided Anatolia and the Middle East.
Artists still existed in Venice, but man if art was developed further in other parts of Europe leaving Venice as a relic. Hell, other places of Europe developed further than Venice. Period.

>>149265856
>16 hours a day
Well, if you love doing that, good for you.
Most people work 8+ h a day just to survive. If you use those 16 that are left in animation, it's your problem.
Just don't expect to make a living out of it. It's possible, but not that much.

>>149265920
Is GLITCH still indie?

>>149265951
/thread

>>149265963
Kek.
But man if there are old-fags out there that behaves like teenagers. It's annoying rather than sad

>>149265982
At least he links his patreon at the end of that rant.

>>149266056
But the way Healthcare works, it's preferable to pay for an insurance rather than getting broke for any stupid accident.
But yeah, it was kinda out of place.

Sometimes I kinda wish there was some kind of push to make/read indie comics similar to what's happening to indie animation right now. It would be easier for some artists to invest in if animation isn't an option.

>>149266058
>There's a new untapped markets for indie studios actually.
It is. But it's more an outsourcing technique than anything else.
>>149266118
Most of the shows that were greenlit in the past went through the network affiliate studio.
There's also Vivienne case that pulled it through going full indie. But still studio was the safer option.
But now pitching your idea directly to A24 seems to be a pretty good idea right now.

>>149288341
Even mainstream comics can barely get 10,000 readers, I'm afraid American-style comics are simply disappearing.

>>149287686
Really makes you wonder. When Dana made that post about TOH "not fitting the brand", she capped it by telling her viewers to watch Amphibia and nothing else. I think TGAMM was airing at the time. She supports fellow cliquemates like Alex and Braly, but considers anyone else at that place beneath her. I remember some low level DTVA employee made some videos about this, not mentioning Dana directly but showing drawings of this "clique" that looked obviously like her and Alex.
Hirsch, Braly, Terrace, Sugar... they were always huge slobs and the brief fame they each had seems to have gotten to their heads, besides Braly who seems smart enough to stay semi-distanced from it.

>>149268875
>>149275239
Pride is a hell of a drug. And it's even more pathetic that it comes from limp-wristed terminally online liberal artists.

>>149288341
I guess manga and webcomics (webtoons at least) is the closest thing, but the difference is that cartoons have more interest because it's audiovisual media. People just prefer to watch stuff than read. Also it doesn't help that comics are hard for them to stand out because there's a sea of them, cartoons have less competition so it's easier to get an audience if it's watchable enough with a decent style.

>>149278553
What happens when children grow up and learn that women have boobs?

>>149288865
Surely such a travesty will never occur.

>>149265637
Why does an artist's ideas have to be not what the audience wants to see? A lot of my favorite works are stuff i never wouldve thought I wanted to see, and I often find stuff that lines up with what I think I want that ends up disappointing me. I'm sorry your favorite franchise got ruined by a woke they/them tumblr feminist, but you don't need to demand punishment for every artist in the world for that.

>>149272159
>>Make ~7.5k gross a month working a job I enjoy
>>Have actual benefits and job security
>>Work reasonable hours and get ample time off
Then you of all people should be able to launch an indie project, wake up early and chip away at it everyday? None of this really seems like a justification for having a real job instead of a respectable job like an indie artist.
>>Can tell people what I do without being embarrassed
Okay, come on dude. Having absolutely no balls isn't a flex.

>>149265557 (OP)
He's right about indietranny, the only problem is that Shitfinity train was just not good.

>>149288615
>I remember some low level DTVA employee made some videos about this, not mentioning Dana directly but showing drawings of this "clique" that looked obviously like her and Alex.
source?

>>149265557 (OP)
>bluesky
Don't care

>>149266606
It’s not the artists job to monetise shit in these scenarios. What would infinity train have to do be considered successful, what metric was it working towards.

>>149272428

Someone show her Owen's rant

>>149267915
Infinity train has 1 season of 20 episodes. They just sliced that up into 4 sets of 10 half episodes

>>149268839
you don't get it. you aren't paying them to do nothing, your paying them to not commit fucking crimes. tie the UBI to criminal status. as family units. bam, now Jamals mom is fucking kicking the shit outta Jamal for putting their ubi at risk robbing the local liquor store. MAYBE Jamal then goes onto release a banger of a hip hop album I'll never listen to, but fuck, better than bumping into Jamal pan handling on the sidewalk then gutting you for your wallet

>>149265557 (OP)
>>149265558
This is the nigga that wanted a hyper story focus and planned a useless filler arc and was shocked when he got shitcanned and they had no ending at all for the series
I have zero sympathy at all for anything he has to say.