Why do you hate the Bat-family?

Yes. Miller Dark Knight has always been the template Batman for me. These pansies all sissify him.

>>149435368 (OP)
They take focus away from the characters I like.
Also Batman should be a loner.

>>149435368 (OP)
Why doesn't his mansion have a larger kitchen?

>>149435368 (OP)
THERE'S JUST TOO DAMN MANY OF THEM!

Making them an actual team dilutes the brand and makes the whole world feel smaller

>>149435368 (OP)
I don't have any problem with him having a Robin, and getting a new one if the spot is open. I don't love the idea of a gaggle of teens hanging out at the mansion. It can start to feel more like a superhero team than a mystery solving duo like it was supposed to. That was the point of him having a sidekick in the first place, to have a character to bounce dialogue off off like Holmes and Watson. Not for Batman to become a brand that a bunch of vigilantes are part of.

>11 issues in and he already had a child with him

Is it just me, or do none of them actually follow Batman around anymore? Robin should be a weird little tyke who sits in the Batmobile with Batman. When he's prowling streets or talking to suspects Robin is walking behind him. He's mostly a vehicle for Batman to bounce his monologue off of.

these guys operate like their own team, like Batman has to phone them and go "Batfamily deal with XYZ all by yourselves for half the issue". That's why I don't like them, they take up space and make it about only them. They're not partners anymore but an organisation.

>>149435439
Batman doesn't draw any money without Dick CHADson I'm afraid

>>149435448
all his films without Dick the Fag broke 1 billion. all his films with that whiney bitch Dick flopped and ruined the franchise.

>>149435368 (OP)
I don’t.
I love them more than that Joker-loving-Batman.

The "found family" shit is boring and actively takes away from Batman's character

>>149435417
>dilutes the brand
what a faggy thing to say

>>149435468
Batman being a dark boring faggot with no superpowers is what kills the movie franchises

>>149435368 (OP)
I think that its a mistake to try and have this many character active at once and pretend they are independent heroes. It gets messy and convoluted fast.

If you want Bruce to still be active, he should have one or AT MOST two sidekicks. Keep it small and simple.

If you want the Bat Family to be a thing, Bruce needs to be the coach and not the star player. Think a Batman Beyond style dynamic, but with a Bruce thats not quite so old: Bruce managing a team of young Batman-successor heroes because he knows with his age and injuries he can't do it himself anymore. He can be the detective and the mentor, but he needs the rest of the family to be the legwork and the fighters and at some point he needs them to be able to do the detective stuff without him too. Only when then Bat Family no longer needs Bruce to function is his work done.

In a way, the idea that Bruce himself was so exception that he needs to train an entire team of people who only by working TOGETHER manage to be his equal is still very flattering to Bruce's legend.

>>149435417
More often than not, Batman is on his own, at most he has a Robin.
You people act like he has the whole family with him 24/7.

>>149435444
>Robin should be a weird little tyke who sits in the Batmobile with Batman. When he's prowling streets or talking to suspects Robin is walking behind him. He's mostly a vehicle for Batman to bounce his monologue off of.
Now Batman uses Oracle for that. She's utterly useless 95% of the time, but writers use her as Batman's chatterbox so that he doesn't monologue to himself.

>>149435368 (OP)
I like Jason and Tim. Barbara and Dick are okay. The rest should be culled.

>>149435493
>If you want Bruce to still be active, he should have one or AT MOST two sidekicks.
He usually just has one, everyone else does their own thing.
Again, he's not with all of them all the time.

>>149435381
Batman wasn't alone at the end of DKR when he said "This will be a good life."
You know nothing of Miller.

>>149435468
Bruce has never been this based.

>>149435526
Correct, but with the way comics continuity works that just means that the rest of the bat-family is in some quantum inventory space where from issue to issue either Batman is the only one in Gotham and has to handle things solo, or the rest of the Bat Family is 10 minutes away and with a single phone call he has a dozen bat-themed ninjas in capes on his position to help him without delay. They don't need to be riding his ass 24/7 for the specter of them to not be a constant shadow on Gotham because they still get brought up at least individually often enough that their presence is felt.

>>149435519
Early New 52 and by proxy Gotham Knights had a right idea. All you need is Dick, Babs, Tim and maybe Jason being a wild card. The rest can kindly fuck off.

>>149435570
Thats boomer nostalgia talking. "Only the sidekicks that were around when *I* was reading these comics for the first time count and matter. The clock stopped when I got here, and must forever be frozen there. Nothing new, no one else gets to have anything, only ME."

>>149435568
So your problem is that they're not always with Batman??

>>149435614
i think his problem is that they exist at all

>>149435607
Yeah, because Batman fans care so much about Kate Kane, that one Fox kid or fucking Duke Thomas. Even Stephanie Brown is a literal who to the most people.

>>149435368 (OP)
The only one I don't really care for is Duke, but he mostly works during the day, and is mostly irrelevant in anything else, so he can be the diversity hire I guess.

>>149435486
They tried being dark and cool and edgy, and they got 89, Returns, and the Nolan Trilogy and made billions and became a massive cultural influence.
They tried being faggy and frufru and gay like dick grayson self inserters in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin, and they became laughed at for how boring and gay they were for all of time.

>>149435649
>Bat-Family thread
>posts complaining about characters that aren't relevant anymore
Like clockwork.

>>149435368 (OP)
They dilute the concept of Batman and actively make him worst.
Robin had his place before two way radios and Alfred existed and Batman needed someone to talk to.
All Batman needs in 2025 is Alfred or Oracle for expository dialog

>>149435696
I swear to god, the only reason they haven't resurrected Alfred yet was because they need Oracle to have something to do.

>>149435368 (OP)
Batman works better when very few are selected to be his secondary cast beside Lucius fox, Jim Gordon and Bullock.
The useful, batfamily was just Dick, Tim and batgirl. Jason should have stayed dead, while Damian should never existed in the first place because we were already on our third robin.
If spoiler and Cassandra cain stayed as a tertiary cast of the secondary cast with no batman relation maybe they could have worked better.
Everything else is rubbish.
Batwoman was originally it own thing, it was like putting spider-woman along with spider-man when they had nothing in common beside the spider theme.

>>149435763
>If spoiler and Cassandra cain stayed as a tertiary cast of the secondary cast with no batman relation maybe they could have worked better.
With how... unhinged the Cassandra Cain fandom is, that would never fly. They just keep whining that Cassandra Cain isn't important enough or something.

>>149435368 (OP)
Dick should be in his own city.
Jason should get his own city and not associated with Batman.
Tim should be living with his parents who are alive again.
Damian stays.
Barbara is a cripple again.
Cassandra stays or get her own city.
Steph stays.
Duke shouldnt exist at all.

>>149435368 (OP)
>Why do you hate the Bat-family?

I don't. Don't put words in my mouth bitch.

>>149435409
Is Helena bertinelli huntress even part of the batfamily? She's almost never associates with them.
The same with catwoman, she's jaut batman love interest she's not really part of his familiy.

>>149435889
>Is Helena bertinelli huntress even part of the batfamily?
Used to be, nowadays she's kinda distant.

>>149435733
Oracle's usefulness ended with the invention of smart phones and drones.
But DC is too cowardly to use her the right way as a quasi romantic intrest for Batman, and let them have playful banter and be actual romantic rival for Catwoman.

>>149435911
The stuff with barbara is even dumb, because writers can't decide if she was batman or dick love interest.
Persnally I think it was better for her to be a dick love interest, but in the end, we know starfire is the better girl for him, so she ends ups alone. The batman thing should have stayed as a crush and nothing else.

>>149435911
>Oracle's usefulness ended with the invention of smart phones and drones.
Eh, there are so many ways for Barbara Gordon to actually utilize her hacker abilities because of the smartphones and drones being commonplace. Think Deus Ex, Watch Dogs or even Mr Robot.
But DC just want to copy the 2000's Oracle where she's glued to the chair 95% of the time, even though that's the most boring and inefficient way to handle her.
But let's be honest, DC doesn't care about utilizing Barbara Gordon properly, they just want to sideline her in favour of Cassandra Cain and putting her behind the desk as Batman's chatterbox is a perfect opportunity to do so.

>>149435368 (OP)
It presents a very uninteresting dynamic.
Only fags and women could possibly enjoy this.

>>149436373
>It presents a very uninteresting dynamic

Solo Batman presents no dynamic at all.

>>149435987
>But let's be honest, DC doesn't care about utilizing Barbara Gordon properly, they just want to sideline her in favour of Cassandra Cain and putting her behind the desk as Batman's chatterbox is a perfect opportunity to do so.

False. Barbara became Oracle years before anyone had even dreamed of Cassandra Cain.

>>149435368 (OP)
Love the pic, hate the concept and execution of the batfamily.
Dick, barbara and tim and thats it.
Jason stayed dead and was the reaminder of how being with batman can end in tragedy, reviving him was the same level of lame marvel is doing right now with the original gwen stacy, there was a reason people voter for him to die in the past.
I agree with >>149435763 in almost everything, damian as a robin was just an excuse for bruce to have a child of his own blood but was terrible because as someone said here, we were already on our third robin, Talia as a mother was awful too, selina was the logical chocie, if bruce needed a child of his own.

>>149436439
That’s better than le wholesome family Bruce.

>>149435567
Man, i never really liked barbara because as a love interest she was a pain innthe ass.
But boy dick really did a scummy action here, he literally fucked barbara and then he said to her he was gonna marry starfire.
If I remember right he tried to stop her, but barbara was really insistent in it.

>>149436533
It was the day before his wedding too. Shit was real cold hearted lmfao

>>149436533
>>149436571
Koriand'r is better in every way than barbara. Unlike her, kori was a cool woman to be with.
Only the new 52 made the mistake of making her a whore, but they already reconnected that terrible idea.

>>149435409
Don't forget everybody in Batman Inc counts

>>149435468
They've never once cast an age-appropriat Robin in a DC Live Action show or movie. The last Robin they had that was faithful to the source material was the weirdly racist 1940s stuff.

>>149435381
>>149435563
It would be cool if the batfamily functioned more like the Sons of Batman at the end of DKR streetwise teens who could navigate the city as his footsoldiers. I think some already work find for that (Dick, Jason when he was Robin, Steph, Cass ), Babs and Tim are a bit too middle class but work in that they have somethign to prove, and have distinct dynamics with the others. Duke is just lame. His Robin gang should be that, but they ended up feeling really generic. Damian is tricky because his role as biological son inevitably gives him an advantage, but I can see him learning to adjust to Gotham's streets as an angle.
I don't like older members like Batwoman and Batwing who could function on their own as adults but chose to crib Batman's mantle after they were already grown. Robins who leaned under him are different.

>>149436528
I wish they were more healthy and functional. Half the time there's some big drama in the batfamily for fight scenes. Even OP's pic exists because the next page has Bruce having a vision of everything going wrong to set up the next arc(where the Batfamily fight Batman, naturally.)

>>149436690
90% of those literal who's are black for some diversity reason.
Only azrael and helena bertinelli are worth something in that pic.
>we had yet, another batgirl
Jesus, how many characters we need to have with te same name.
We have too many batgirls and robins.
Is like the way too many spider-powered characters in the 616 universe.

>>149435567
What issue is this from?

>>149436772
Tiffany is just from an alternate future, not a regular character.

>>149436690
>>149436772
I forgot how dc tried to make a black bootleg version of the batfamily.
Does that idea even worked? I actually forgot all those guys were even a thing.
It never really worked with miles morales, imagine the whole cast.

>>149435368 (OP)
>chocolate keeps him awake
somehow i thought bad-kids would be more resistant to caffeine than that
haven't they all tripped on scare toxin before?

People here are either miserable or resent liking comic books that seem like they could be for children, which is why all the movies write out Robin to be all "dark and mature" and Batman is just a schizophrenic weirdo punching poor people.

In reality Robin has always been important to Batman and he's been there from the start

>>149436927
No one is against a batfamily, we're against useless or derivative family members. Some here even said some characters could work better as the secondary cast of the actual secondary cast, like cassandra and spoiler. Huntress, batwoman and even catwoman aren't even suposed to be in that equation.
Jason is fine as red hood, but should have stayed dead, damian was an actual mistake because we had 4 robins in the batman timelapse of 6 years.

>>149436876
>with this black bootleg of a popular superhero, we will target:
>old audience of comic book readers who have the genuine version but are willing to switch to a bootleg
>new audience of blacks age 12-20 who can read but haven't started reading comics yet

>>149436772
>for some diversity reason.
DC desperately wanted their own Miles Morales but not a single one of their black Batmen took off

>>149436817
Nightwing Annual #2.
It has its moments, but for the continuityfag, it's really fucking dumb.
>Batgirl is crippled in TKJ - 1988
>Nightwing's last space trip in New Titans 55 - 1989
>Nightwing and Starfire wedding in New Titans 100 - 1993
How the fuck does this scene make sense?

>>149437101
accidentally dropped a whole image

>>149437113

>>149435409
>>149435368 (OP)
Gotta be honest, does someone here actually cares about duke thomas?
Is not about him being black, he's... just there. Does he even have closeness to any batfamily member? you know, actual closeness and not just one panel?
I remember too how batwing was important at some point in the batman incorporated time, but people just forgot about him.

>>149437019
The thing is, effectively that’s what happens already. Babs mainly just shows up in Dick’s book. Steph has only appeared in Cass’ book briefly in the last few months. I can’t remember the last time Duke popped up. Jason is doing his own thing with huntress now apparently. Tim and Damian are the only regulars interacting with Batman a lot of the time.

>>149437122

>>149437131

>>149435368 (OP)
I like them better
they just need to divorce themselves from Batman

>>149437124
This thread is mostly focused on batman as a main character, in what's supposed to be the main batman story.
The secondary cast having their own books is just dc exploiting the batman brand. Only dick and tim original run was worth something.

>>149437187
Sorry, this reply was for >>149437125

>>149437124
>Gotta be honest, does someone here actually cares about duke thomas?

I have a hard time believing anybody gives a shit about him, but one thing I've learned over the years is that even the most obscure character is somebody's favorite.

>>149437124
I like Duke. He's about as close to Batman as Steph is. He's supposed to be close to Cass, they were on the Outsiders together.

>>149437187
>>149437201
Ok, but my point is you can read Batman’s main books and not have to deal with most of these characters as is.

>>149436439
All he needs is one sidekick, Gordon, Alfred, and his rogues. Plenty of GOOD dynamic there.
Also yes, even solo Batman is preferable to the Batfamily.

>>149435368 (OP)

Hot take: Batman is maybe 5th or 6th most interesting Bat character.

>>149437363
List your most interesting Batman characters so I can tell you what a moron with awful taste you are.

>that many attractive athletic people
>who are not actually related

Hard to imagine them as a family when they fuck eachother so much.

>>149436848
What's really weird is that there was already an existing alt-future black Batgirl from Steph's run, Nell.

>>149437101
Even better, how does a retrospective issue designed to push the DickBabs romance act like presenting Dick as a two-timing asshole to both the women he's involved with is going to sell anyone on the relationship?

>>149436690
This image bothers me because seven of those characters predate the Black Batfamily concept, eight of them have their own contexts, one of them is non-canon, two of them are long-standing associates of Batman, and one has been dead since 2004.

>>149437396
To be fair dick literally fucked barbara, tim used to fuck steph when he wasn't gay and had a close thing with cassandra.
And almost 30% of the batfamily fucked catwoman, even dick.

>>149435911
>But DC is too cowardly to use her the right way as a quasi romantic intrest for Batman, and let them have playful banter and be actual romantic rival for Catwoman.
ship nonsense should get you shot in the leg

>>149437396
Bruce nearly married Selina, Dick nearly married Babs and fucked Helena, Tim and Steph were a couple for years. Even if you keep the Batfamily to just Bruce, Dick, Babs, Jason, Tim, Steph, Cass, and Damian that's half the cast fucking each other.

>>149435368 (OP)
Now post the next page

>>149435911
No batman fan would like to have babs as bruce love interest, by far she was one of the worst love interest for bruce, while she works for dick way better until starfire stole her thunder.

>>149437609
Dick fucked helena bertinelli? Now thats a new one to me.

>>149437444
>>149437609
I will never forget what dc did to tim, alan scott and jonathan kent for diversity points.

>>149437692
Yep, actually kinda funny in that it basically happened before Babs could seal the deal.
Coincidently she considered capping Helena with a sniper rifle when she was Batgirl in NML

>>149437692
It's happened a few times. Where have you been?
>Nightwing Huntress 90s mini
>NML New Years Issue
>Grayson/Nigthwing Rebirth

>>149435368 (OP)
I'm not a Batfanboy, so I don't really mind writers rightfully digging at his lapses and recognize that writers can make him say or do things just to stir that up like here, but the point remains Wally and others have this bullet ready for Bruce anytime he criticizes their personal lives affecting their superheroics and vice versa because he is written endangering children en masse, directly as his partners in crime or resourcing them to go off and get up to who knows what.

If Bruce was just raising orphans he trained to be able to defend themselves and go into areas of need in Gotham to fight corruption it would be fine, commendable even, but as is it looks like how Joker dragged Harley into his world of insanity.

>>149435368 (OP)
>Why do you hate the Bat-family?
Because it's bloated. All it needs is Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Babs and Damien. All the rest are needless fluff that add nothing of significance and the bat-lore can utterly do without.

>>149437826
>and Damien.
lol I like how you can always clock when a poster started reading based on things like this.

>>149437826
Jason gave Bruce some good character development

>>149437826
Damian is a rape baby and the self-insert of a bald tranny working through his mommy issues. How does he add anything of of significance?

>>149437735
>dick cucked barbara not once, but twice.
Lmfao, no one like barbara enough to put a ring on her permanently.

So I don’t read comics, but how does the whole “le wholesome batfamily” thing work with Jason being Red Hood, does he like not murder people with guns anymore?
Just seems odd for the team with the biggest no kill rule be okay with their one murderous member, like “oh we let Jason shoot someone every once in awhile, as a treat.”

>>149437874
Story was mishandled, but the Bruce, Jason, Nocturna drama was a really interesting concept because not only was it a conflict between hero and villain that extended to their civilian lives but Nocturna genuinely cared about Jason and his well-being.

>>149437806
Modern harley try way to hard to make harley a sympathetic character, abused by the joker, when originally she became a psychologist passing by having sex with her teachers while she wanted to known joker to be famous for being the one curing him, for money.
Harley was never dragged into joker's world of insanity, she voluntarily got in, while she was a massive psychopath for her own hands. Not only joker.
Harley is a special case because the character became popular and dc wanted its own deadpool and needed an "empowered" woman, even if harley never really made sense at all.

>>149438006
Jason uses the Katana exemption, "You're my teammate, not my boss."

>>149437806
>Even dc writers hate how batman had 4 robins
Talking about story, damian existing was a really stupid concept, being another robin sealed the deal.

>>149435409
This is my biggest issue too.
Him having a sidekick that lives in the manor, be that Robin, or whoever the writers want to make up, is fine.
Batgirl/Oracle helping him, while living away, is fine.
Retired Robins being off doing their own things, but still keeping in touch, is fine.
Him having allies he might call upon once in a while, is fine.
But Batman should not be running a fucking orphanage/hotel.
Unless it's some elseworld story, the only people who should be living at Wayne manor should be Bruce, Alfred and 1 sidekick, whoever that might be at the time.

I like Batman being nice to his sidekicks but don't want fucking thirty of them

>>149435910
>>149435889
Of course. She's an off an on supporting character and hookup buddy for Nightwing, she's the third member of the Birds of Prey, and she was the edgy one before Azrael showed up and Jason got resurrected and Damian got introduced.
Her last big story was Tamaki's Detective Comics run.

>>149437735
>>149437794
I need actual pics to laugh a little, please.

>>149435368 (OP)
They keep backstabbing Bruce and getting away with it.

They literally teamed up with Catwoman and her army of thieves against him.

They should all be fired.

>>149438094
It's pretty rare that many of them are operating together except for crossover stories. Dick and Jason usually operate outside of Gotham and the Batgirls tend to work in parallel to Bruce rather than alongside him. Bruce, Alfred, and 1 sidekick at the manor is the norm unless you're reading Wayne Family Adventures. Dick hasn't lived at the manor since he graduated high school, Jason never lived at the manor, Tim only lived at the manor as his primary home for a brief period, Damian lives at the manor, Babs never lived at the manor, Cass always had her primary residence somewhere besides the manor, and Steph never lived at the manor.

>>149438055
Funnily enough regarding Mad Love, the actual story itself isn't canon to the DCU, only the DCAU. However, statements referencing events in Mad Love are canon.

>>149438309
If only there were places that you could READ COMICS ONLINE.

>>149435368 (OP)
I don’t hate them, in fact I just find it hilarious how the guy most popular interpretation of being a brooding loner ended up with a big supporting family with nearly a dozen members.
Like compare it to the more outgoing and friendly Superman, who’s supporting family is considerably smaller, it’s just funny.

The only supporting characters Batman needs are Alfred and Gordon and sometimes a single Robin.

>>149438443
The brooding loner interpretation hasn't really been a thing for the vast majority of Batman's history.

>>149438376
Nah, is easier for someone to post pics here, thanks for having the time for posting it tough.

>>149436485
>there was a reason people voter for him to die in the past.
Yeah, because they wanted to see if they would actually do it. The idea of Jason's death having meaning died when Bruce brought Cass into the mix despite being more fucked up than Jason and himself.

>>149438342
Man some concepts were really retarded.
Almost all batman family members have literal fights with batman every month.
I do get why people hate that concept, it always make everyone look like some ungrateful cunts to bruce, while bruce is always written like the worst parent ever created by people who's not writing the main book.
Is like captain america being mostly a good guy but is almost written as a literal nazi on the x-men books, or spider-man being admired by some heroes in his own book, while the whole heroes community hates him on other books with the exception of daredevil. Funny enough the worst spidey hate is too, on the x-men book. Heck, some of them even say say miles morales is the better spider-man, talk about making stupid shit.

>>149435368 (OP)
Yes. Extremely. Batman shouldn't necessarily be an angsty "grr I work alone" type, but there's just too many fucking characters.

>>149438635
The best thing about the Tom Taylor run, regardless of quality, was that it was so popular that Taylor could completely disregard all Zdarsky's Gotham War bullshit.
In the Didio era his entire series would have gotten railroaded for an unnecessary tie-in.

>>149438635
Plenty of main title writers have written Bruce as a paranoid, imperious, and unpleasant control freak and several Batfamily members, Tim and Steph specifically, are honestly too pleasant around Bruce considering his assholish behavior towards them in the past. Though if you're being realistic Tim should be pretty cool with Dick for sidelining him when Bruce was Omega Sanctioned and not even be on speaking terms with Damian for the repeated attacks and general shitty attitude towards him.

>>149435368 (OP)
All you have to do is look at that panel to see why. The "Batfam" should be nothing more than: Bruce (Batman), Dick (Robin), Alfred, and maybe Barbara (Batgirl).

>>149435398
I get the thought behind this, but I'd say he needs Robin. He barely got 11 issues in before they had to spice him up by coming up with Dick.

>>149435407
He moved into an apartment with Damien so they could bond or something dumb.

>>149439044
Tim was 17. Damian was 10.
Tim needs to grow the fuck up. Also, get good.

>>149439105
He lost his money and his company to some Joker bullshit. Lucius Fox owned (owns?) Wayne Enterprises. Vandal Savage owned (owns?) Wayne Manor.
Bruce had downsized to a brownstone.
Now he's got a new, smaller mansion.

>>149435409
The wild thing is all of these people (save Alfred and Barbara) exist pretty much only to fill Dick's shoes. Having him "move on" to Nightwing destroys the story every time. Suddenly, you need a new Robin, and no matter what they're never enough, resulting in them multiplying into 2-3 of them and then opening the door for autists bending over backwards to try to make The Killing Joke canon to mainstream continuity, pushing Barbara out and adding in 2-3 new Batgirl stand-ins. Then among the musical chairs of shuffling through all of these B-strings you inevitably get a few absolute D-listers no one likes added in, too.

All of this becomes immediately apparent when you ask yourself the question: "What if Dick was Robin?" suddenly, they all disappear like shadows when you turn on a light. No one can justify any of their existence in a lineup with Dick as Robin save for maybe Barbara so he has someone to flirt with and of course Alfred at home keeping things in order.

>>149435468
You're forgetting the G.O.A.T. Republican Serials
>>149436710
> Hating the best live action Batman
ISHYGDDT

>>149439123
Nta but this place agrees about damian not existing at all.

>>149439170
Which only goes to show how terrible peoples' tastes were back in the day considering Robin was only ever interesting thanks to Jason and Tim. You know it's bad when even Denny O'Neil stated that people hated Jason when he dared to give him some character.

>>149435515
Which is a downgrade to have her chattering away 99% of the time when you could just have him checking in with Alfred every so often and a Batcomputer that does all the heavy lifting.

This is really a problem that stems from the elimination of narration panels. It just opens the door for geeky autists to wax philosophical or try to sound witty and cheeky and just devolves into obnoxious cringe.

>>149436680
That's irrelevant, it was him deciding that his bachelor party was going to be tricking Barbara into thinking he wanted to get back with her then going: "PSYCHE! Lol"

>>149439123
>be heir to the League of Assassins
>trained since birth by the greatest killers on the planet to be a peerless combatant
>need to ambush a guy who has zero intentions of fighting you despite claiming him as your inferior
>later on get bodied by a failed businessman with an exacto knife

>>149435614
It sounds nitpicky but it really gets to the heart of the issue. If they were with Batman all the time everyone would go: "That's too many people." so they have to exist in a state of quantum limbo where they don't exist until they're convenient for the plot even when it doesn't make logical sense, which is just subpar writing.

>>149439179
Way too into the SLAP A JAP N BUY WAR BONDS era for my tastes.

Do you ever wonder if Bruce deals with surprise inspections from CFS?
Like single rich white guy constantly taking kids into his home, somebody’s gotta be questioning this right?

>>149439425
It’s happened..

>>149439458
Say, jason todd is supposed to be legally death, how come jason living didnt legally change anything? Does he still use his name, use a fake name, how does he makes money?

>>149439504
Good question. DC hasn't had good writers editors on the main Batman books since Jason was a John Doe bad guy, so nobody's thought to address this.

>>149439425
It's a major plot point in Batman and Robin: Year One. Dick's caseworker is in every third issue.

>>149435368 (OP)
It's too bloated. You could cut out half of them and it'd be far better for it.

>>149439504
It would have been incredibly easy to address and say that they got the wrong body in the casket, while the real Jason was being held ransom in Ethiopia.

>>149439669
>Huntress
>Slutty Huntress
are these different characters?

>>149437863
>lol I like how you can always clock when a poster started reading based on things like this.
Jokes on you. I've never read a single batman comic in my life.
>>149437916
>How does he add anything of of significance?
Continuation of Bruce's bloodline and the Wayne family legacy.
>>149437874
Jason was wholly unnecessary. A death of someone close to him to motivate him for shit? That's what his parents dying was for. He didn't need Jason for that shit.

>>149439669
Like 13 of these characters don't really appear anymore, once again.
>>149439690
They're probably meant to be Helena Bertinelli and Helena Wayne.
Bertinelli was specifically created as a replacement for Helena Wayne, so they'd still have a Huntress around, we don't usually have them both at the same time unless it's some kind of time travel plot.

>>149439669
>Batwoman
She only shows up for pride month
>Flamebird
She hasn't appeared in a Batman comic since the Batwoman ongoing
>Julia Pennyworth
Hasn't appeared since the Snyder run
>Terry
Come the fuck on. He's an alt future character.
>Helena Wayne
She's gone, and so is Johns.
>Nu52 Batwing
Isn't he dead? He hasn't shown in over a decade
>Gotham Girl
barely appeared since King's run ended
>Clayface
Had a five minute stint as a hero a decade ago.

>>149439669
Here's all the essentials.

can someone share which ones are the comics with the better love stories between Robin and Starfire? i don't know any but love the characters

>>149439669
Terry Mcginnis was such a cool characters of someone deserved the batman legacy other than dick, it was him, but people likes to give damian a pass just because he's bruce actual son.
Terry doesn't count anyway because his story literally passes in a really far future. Where other heroes are dead, or are just plain old.

>>149439669
Helena wayne huntress doesnt even exist in the main universe, shes just an alternate dimension character.

>>149439781
>jason todd
>essential.
Sure dude.

Whis is worse Bat family or Spiderverse

>>149439781
>fan favorite
Kek, you got me there lad.

>>149439825
Jason Todd is more interesting than the essential Dick Grayson, so be happy I included Midwing in there.

>>149439843
She's actually my own little fan favorite. Snyder actually did a pretty decent job of writing a queer characters.
>>149439837
Spider-Verse

>>149439781
>alfred
>not essential
get the fuck out

>>149439837
Both are on the same levels of horribly awful, but for total different reasons.
Batman cast is bloated with retired robins and batgirls, while marvel want us readers to belive every single alternate spidermen/spiderwoman that invades the marvel 616 universe is better than peter parker, this is comically evident with miles when they try to give him stupid new powers every month, but miles is stupid as a concept when he moves to a universe where peter parker is still alive, the same with spider-gwen.

>>149436461
Yes, but that's the reason she STAYS that way. It's in part because having her as Batgirl harkens too much back to the olden days and makes people say: "Why isn't Dick just Robin" so they bend over backwards to shoehorn the Killing Joke into mainstream canon even though that was never the intention and ruins the mystique of it as well as the ending, and then they use the fact that's it's a "heckin' iconic Alan Moore story!" as a shield against criticism. Now that they've got their BDSM Rei Ayanami diversity hire to push instead they have all the more incentive to keep it that way.
>>149436485
See, this is also part of why I think having Dick be Nightwing is ultimately a bad thing, because besides all these extra characters and changes it leads to, it also results in this retroactive dark, edgy, morally questionable stuff. Originally, the only reason he became Nightwing was he was too popular to sideline as a sidekick and Batman needed a Robin, so they invented Jason who was basically just a kidder version of Dick, who was busy with the TItans and Batgirl, and it was a wholesome little bringing him into the family thing. Then that got retconned so now the reason Dick becomes Nightwing is because Batman is an asshole and he ran away from home, which leads to Jason who JUST HAS TO die, and then Barbara gets shot, and before you know it you have all this cringe shit with ninja assassins and control freak paranoia that no one likes. Keeping Dick as Robin also gets rid of all that.

>>149439888
Alfred’s been dead for years and everyone is chugging along just fine anon.

>>149439869
Jesus bro, I thought you were being sarcastic. Awful taste man.

>>149436757
I like how they just casually made Bruce psychic for drama.

>>149439781
>No Alfred
Horseshit. Nevermind himself, there's no way Bruce could manage Dick, Jason and Tim without him.
>Barbara's legs
Humorous

>>149439781
Saying Jason, Tim, and Steph are essential but Alfred isn't is a wild fucking take.

>>149436848
That's how they all start...

>>149439918
>Keeping Dick as Robin also gets rid of all that.
And you lose the best era of Batman as a result and remain stagnant. Even worse is when you have people like Mark Waid who can’t let of Dick Robin despite Tim Drake having an better, more memorable run.

>>149439781
>Alfred being cut but jason being essential
>liking the queer character in a not ironic way.
Everything else is fine, but boy, those two mistakes you did? Baffling.

>>149435368 (OP)
Dick as the young sidekick is the only option

>>149439781
I forgot clayface became good.

>>149437916
The rape was a retcon. I liked Damien for the sheer fact that Ra's is probably my favorite Batman villian, he reminds me of my little brother a little bit, and he appeals to my childhood fantasy of being Robin even though I was like 7 and it realistically didn't make any sense, but I would be fine with getting rid of him if it meant getting Dick back.

>>149439918
>. It's in part because having her as Batgirl harkens too much back to the olden days and makes people say: "Why isn't Dick just Robin"
Not really. The only people that REALLY remember the old days are well into their late 40's or 50's and over by now.
People are ok with Dick as Nightwing, Babs as Batgirl and a Robin, like TNBA or Gotham Knights or countless art pieces showing that.
This sounds more like you having a personal preference.

>>149439944
I mean, Alfred was the first person to throw Jason under the bus to take the heat off Bruce.

>no one is even trying to defend catwoman as part of the batfamily
Hah! She's works as bruce love interest, but no way she works as part of the batfamily, maybe if she actually married bruce.

>all the Jason hate
I thought people liked the edgelord characters?

>>149437874
No, he didn't, and the writer's clearly were not prepared to deal with it or think through the implications. Everyone defends it because they like Batman and reading the stories but realistically that would be a breaking point where Joker needs to get killed or sent to some equivalent of the Phantom Zone but they can't do that because it would change the status quo too much and Joker is popular so it's just: "Yeah, lets ignore that part but appreciate the cool parts!" It's ridiculous.

In a continuity where Jason never existed and it's just Bruce and Dick you never have poorly thought out morality problems. Dick's a savant, hyper-competent, and due to very extenuating circumstances found himself as Bruce's ward and sidekick which ended up being the best for both of them.

Reminder that gookgirl is a useless, pointless, redundant, no-draw SHIT character for genetic dead end weebs that has
>NO memorable runs
>NO rogues gallery
>NO supporting cast
And last but not least
>NO presence in the public consciousness
Her pity solo is a shitty flop not even gookgirl retards can defend and it'll be cancelled soon.

>>149438006
You're not allowed to acknowledge it until they want drama, then you have to pretend it's not happening again.
>>149438055
Agreed. She works better as Joker's sidekick / sort of love interest who occasionally teams up with Ivy with a tease of sexual tension. Once they went full gay and also tried to make her a hero it was over.

>>149438376
My preferred way to read comics is:
> torrenting them and reading them in my offline comics reader
> 4chan storytime
> an online site

>>149439967
recency bias
how many golden or silver age comics have you actually read?

>>149439781
>Used goods blonde whore faggot
>Retarded take
Like fucking clockwork

>>149439792
I've always thought that it would make more sense for Dick to become Batman and Damian to take on his own identity.

>>149439154
That's even worse in every way.

>>149440071
My knees...! I-I-I'm kneeling...!

>>149440021
Damian as a concept shouldn't even needed to be a thing because we already had 3 robins, is the same problem with green lantern having 9 fucking human lanterns on earth, when the logical choice was having just hal, john, kyle and guy, while they needed to focus on the actual alien lantern. Don't make me start about the agenda and all the diversity lgbt shit they did from simon baz to kid lantern. Gosh what they did to Alan scott and tim talking about batman was inexcusable.

>>149440057
Jason wants to be hardcore but editorial won't let him.

>>149439781
>no Alfred
>no Catwoman
Literally numbers 1 and 3 in terms of importance to the Batman mythos, not including villains ofc

>>149439302
Need more PUNCH A NAZI N BUY BITCOIN, huh?

>>149440021
>he reminds me of my little brother a little bit
My sincerest condolences

>>149440071
She exists to be Bruce’s only daughter, since Babs is more of a work friend’s daughter and Steph got in by dating Tim.

>>149440113
Not a lot because a lot of it is pretty boring. Pre-Crisis is for losers.

>>149439425
I'll avoid the Epstein in the room and point out that I'm pretty sure he's only ever adopted Dick and Jason, though I could be wrong. I think I heard he adopted Tim at one point and that it was stupid since Tim's supposed to still have parents, ditto for Steph, and while it would make sense for Cassandra I assume she's technically an unperson since her parents are both off the grid assassins.

>>149440057
Young people like him, became he's the young readers first edgy character along damian. But if you actually know batman story, both were stupid concepts talking about batman story time-lapse in 6 years. Jason demise had weight on batman story, while damian just became another robin, when already had a lot of them.

>>149439550
He doesn't need a job, he knows kung fu so grappling hooks and stuff just appear on his body and he doesn't need to eat or sleep because that's boring.

>>149440071
based gookgirl anon

>>149439250
Or you could use some logic and say they don't all show up at the same time because they're busy with their own crimefighting and Gotham is a massive city that isn't quickly traversed.

>>149439930
False. I haven't touched a Batman comic since they did that, nor will I.

>>149440181
I think he adopted Tim in the New 52 when his parents went into witness protection, and his real name wasn’t even Tim Drake

>>149440239
Let’s be honest: if Alfred was still alive the current runs would still be bad.

>>149435368 (OP)
I think Thomas and Martha have been dead an alley for years.

>>149440181
>>149440241
Tim parents were originally dead, but the new 52 stupidly reconnected a lot of shit.

>>149440113
>>149439967
That's exactly what it is. You read the old stuff and you realize how far we've fallen. Not too mention B:tAS.

The argument that you're "losing the best of X" when you eliminate them falls flat every time for multiple reasons. 1. those comics still exist and you can just read them. 2. Everyone else, including Tim's backstories are too convuluted and require too much foreknowledge to ever properly be adapted save for possibly a DCAU Original Movie, which I believe they unfortunately aren't making any longer. In other words, they aren't normie friendly and would take far too long to properly establish for any franchise. Whereas everyone KNOWS who Bruce, Dick, Alfred, and Barbara are. If you're worried about losing a cool story that could have been in an adaption you can just give it to Dick because there's nothing in it that ultimately ties it to Tim or the rest. Jason liked chocolate cake and old movies? O.K. Dick can just do that (and did in the B:tAS Christmas Special where he makes Bruce watch It's A Wonderful Life), Tim did some cool stuff with the Titans/had a STAFF? Dick can just do that, and has already in the early 00's cartoon. If you're talking about comcis there's no reason to retread those stories and you can just read them if you want, otherwise Dick us just all around the more entertaining character on top of all the previously mentioned benefits.

>>149440255
Whats the excuse for killing alfred and the excuse for maintaining him dead?
He was way too much important.
Funny how alfred died while jason todd, lived, when he was the most hated robin.

>>149440029
Or they either read the old comics or watched Batman the Animated Series growing up. It wasn't until the Arkham games that most normies even started becoming aware of Oracle and the rest. I know I was shocked when I first started getting into comics and found out that Dick wasn't Robin, Barbara wasn't Batgirl, and there were apparently 75 other characters no one ever talked about. And there hasn't been a single story that's made me care about them since save possibly the Morrison run which I'm fine with being set to the wayside. Even some of the things from it, like Steph infiltrating that all girls school or whatever it was, could've easily just been given to Barbara.

>>149440314
Sorry Dickcuck, but Dick is still a boring character.

>>149435368 (OP)
I dont hate the bat family, i hate the forgettable new ones like the yellow guy. Also Jason being rude Dick seems like a waste, I think you could make him a bat antagonist without making him a super villain.

>>149440162
No, she exists to be eyecandy. Literally. She's not meant to talk, she's meant to be hot naked girl, or sexy and cool leather girl. That's it.

People that "like" her either do so for diversity reasons or more likely because they're gooners in denial.

>>149440299
No, Tim's parents were originally alive.
Then they immediately killed his mom and crippled his dad.
Then his dad got better.
Then,when they decided to make Tim into Dick, they killed Tim's dad.
Then they had Bruce adopt Tim.

Killing Jack Drake was a mistake, and part of the end of Tim as a character people gave a shit about.
The New 52 bringing Tim's parents back was the right choice.

>>149435468
Action movie watchers are just cape fags with lower attention spans. I dont care what they like.

>>149440225
That doesn't work when Batman frequently quickly traverses the city. I mean his mansion is at least 10 miles outside of the city alone.

I can maybe buy that they're busy stopping petty muggings or something, though after a certain point that becomes unrealistic. But your telling me some Rogue's Gallery shit starts happening and they're not all swarming it immediately? Nonsense.

>>149440314
>>149440360
>unironically wanting composite characters
The DCAU is ass in certain areas because of that. Kyle Rayner got fucked because of that and they fooled millions of people into liking Wally West when they really liked Bart Allen.
>but muh normie
Normie will literally eat feces presented to them.

>>149440420
I can do without any Jason or Tim nonsense, but that's always what it comes down to with them.

>>149440443
Normies want to see Jason and Tim tho. I’m pretty sure they’re done with the Titans.

>>149440071
>>NO memorable runs
Puckett Batgirl was better than basically every batman run since the mid 90s.
>NO rogues gallery
Shiva, Cain, Mad Dog, Alpha. The real problem is she requires an artist with actual figure drawing capabilities to bring them out.
>NO supporting cast
Same supporting cast as any other steadily member except were relationship with babs and steph are actual dynamics and not plot devices.
>>149440382
She's meant to be a naked girl who's outfit covered more than anyone. But youre right, she lacks epic Deadpool quips and only talks about character or plot relevant things like some skank.

>>149440471
That's because they keep getting teased by "real fans" about these "super cool characters" they never get to see. If they finally made a movie, animated or otherwise, with them as main Batfam members I think everyone would be over it real quick. Just look how quickly they had to walk back Luke Fox and Batwoman when they tried adding them to the Batman & Son saga of the DCAU Original Movies, or how fast the Batwoman show tanked.

>>149440393
You are probably the only guy i know that really thinks having tim parents alive was a good idea.

>>149435368 (OP)
There's way too many of them

>>149440479
I was under the impression Cassfags were still upset she started talking and reading or whatever. I remember the first time she did that, I think when Tim beat her up, everyone threw a fit about it.

>>149440511
Or it might've been when she randomly showed up for five seconds in the Morrison run (I think) and gave Dick a lecture. I can't remember but I do remember a shit storm about her talking too much.

Honestly her being mute and using sign language/navy seal hand codes would make her more interesting.

>>149440529
Kind of like Snake Eyes from G.I. Joe

>>149440479
>Puckett
Literal mediocrity and the only passable run to this day
>Literal whos and a Batman villain
Lol
>Stealing Batman's cast and a pointless blonde whore
LMAO

>>149440004
He's been flip flopping lately, but they'll probably make him good again for synergy with the Clayface movie.

>>149435368 (OP)
Really, aside from Robin/Nightwing, most of them are boring and crowd out Batman for little gain. Most of them are just boring. The various Robins and Nightwing get a pass because they're usually interesting in their own right and work in multiple ways to support Batman's characters in a way the other 20,000 random batfamily members and sometimes-members don't and can't.

>>149440360
>Even some of the things from it, like Steph infiltrating that all girls school or whatever it was, could've easily just been given to Barbara.
The whole point of that school is that they were daughters of supervillains, it was one of the cases where it was perfect for Steph. They were waffling on having her as Spoiler before going back to Batgirl because they weren't sure if she'd have her old Spoiler outfit in new 52(and she wouldn't)

>>149440360
>Or they either read the old comics
very few people do. Not that there's that many of the Batman/Robin/Batgirl set up in the bronze age. dick was off to college soon after Babs came a long, and a lot of the Batfamily team ups were just a few Babs and Dick without Batman.
At this point there's far more Babsgirl with Dick as Nightwing and Damian as Robin comics than there ever were Babsgirl and dick Robin books
>or watched Batman the Animated Series growing up
which was immediately followed by TNBA, where the Nightwing/BAtgirl/Robin dynamic that's still fairly popular to go back to.

>>149440318
>and the excuse for maintaining him dead?
Cheap drama AND Oracle has something to do.

>>149439154
And the batcave?

>>149440529
I dunno, for me, Cassandra Cain is a peak "tryhard" character. She's this "nothing personell "meme made manifest.
But I must be weird, because I thought Cass was a stupid character even as a kid in 2000's.

>>149440318
Alfred's role in the comics is largely in between the field, talking and addressing the given situation with Batman and the others, often with dry wit, and maybe some assuring messages. That sort of downtime doesn't really happen as much anymore.

>>149440491
>. Just look how quickly they had to walk back Luke Fox and Batwoman when they tried adding them to the Batman & Son saga of the DCAU Original Movies, or how fast the Batwoman show tanked.
The difference is that comic fans never really cared about Luke Fox or Batwoman. ESPECIALLY not an OC show Batwoman lmao. No comparison.
Jason is an example of a character liked by comic fans that actually did prove popular being adapted.

>>149435368 (OP)
The only "Bat-family wholesome moment" panel I like is the "Let's watch Zorro" one. The only people in the "Bat-family" should be
>Dick
>Cass
>Damian
And technically Jason, but he's exiled due to obvious reasons.

>>149435368 (OP)
Is this from an actual issue? If so, which issue?

>>149440969
Fuck off, gookgirl faggot

>>149440969
>damian
Nah man, he was pretty much unnecessary
>cass over babs
Now this is a strange take
>jason
Dude please, read the thread.

It's uncreative writers searching Twitter and Tumblr seeing slice of life fanart doing numbers and thinking that's what the audience wants to see, instead of actually coming up with a good story.

>>149440979
Batman (2016) #136

>>149441034
I wish duke felt more like another brother. He was just there doing nothing.

we all agree that Alfred should still be a permanent inclusion right?

>>149441089
I'm sorry but all this time we've spent with him dead made me realize how unnecessary he actually is.
He's like Pa and Ma Kent, just there because people like him, he never actually does anything in stories himself, mission control can be done by Oracle, his humor and wisdom really isn't as necessary as some might think, and Batman can do exposition without him.

>>149440998
I'm not a fan of Damian. But I'd rather have him than Duke or Steph.
Barbara/Oracle would work with them, but I don't think she should be hanging around watching movies and making pancakes and whatever is happening there in OP's panel.
I prefer a smaller, more personal family. And I don't think Jason should still be connected to Batman, I think he should've ditched them for good after Under the Red Hood.

>>149441089
Yeah, every single batman fan feels alfred losing a hand thanks to the joker, and being killed by bane to give damian a lesson was a terrible idea.
Special by how important he used to be, even if the dude wasn't that much on the field.
He was bruce main secondary character along jim gordon.

>>149440511
the mute thing was dropped early on, but she talked in a terse and short manner, not very talkative, and this is around where most Cass fans like her. Also illiterate and struggling with reading.
She's sometimes still terse, but less so, and her reading issue was solved off panel suddenly one issue and she was revealed as reading a lot

>>149439918
It's still ironic that for all that Simone's 2000's chest beating that Oracle isn't just a Batsecretary and is really cool no really you guys, current DC just made Oracle a Batsecretary and called it a day.

>>149441118
>>149441089
I like the idea of Alfred's eventual death being an expected thing. He's there when Bruce is alone, there at the beginning of the family, and now in the modern family he's gone. His presence is missed but things move on.
Similar to how Alfred dies in DKR before Bruce sets up his underground gang. But I also have no interest in Batman being locked in an eternal BTAS formula which seems unpopular here.

>>149441082
The problem is that he's a black character largely handled by white creators worried about offending.
You can't have someone like Damian shit on him like he does on almost everyone else, which comes off as weird and sterile. He doesn't have any special niches with any characters. Like Tim is Dick's little brother and a bit more static with him and Jason but they had more civil moments since Lobdell(for better or worse), antagonistic with Damian, close with and has history Steph, works well with Cass.
Duke kinda had a close bond with Cass set up but it's not touched on much after the initial set up

>>149441034
Why are they eating in their costumes?

>>149441257
Because branding.

>>149441235
Funny how black people ruined their only chance to have a black batman family member because black people get offended by literally anything if a white guy is involved.
At least lucius fox is still cool, i cant say the same about all his family members.

>>149441279
>Funny how black people ruined
well thats the thing, they're not really the ones handling them. I'm sure lots of black fans would be fine with black family members who were as dysfunctional as long as they got some cool moments too. But I can see a white writer being afraid to have Damian insult Duke, as he likely would, because it might make him see like he's racist(even though he insults Tim and Steph and other white characters freely)
Not that there aren't some black writers who write some cringe shit, Jace Fox was effectively created by a black writer(based off an existing one, but entirely reinvented) and he's pretty mediocre, but he's generally outside the batfamily wheelhouse.

>>149435813
Give this man a writing gig. Or better, an editorial one.

>>149435368 (OP)
They let in the joggers.

>>149439669
I thought Gotham died and Gotham Girl lost her powers.

>>149440873
No, no. I agree. It was just a passing thought.
>>149440909
While that's true I doubt that we will ever get a good Jason adaption due to the fact that he's so intrinsically tied to Death In The Family and Red Hood now. The best option would be a movie with him as Robin and Dick as Nightwing, but that will be a hard sell because everyone will be asking when he's going to die and that's a storyline they probably won't ever want to do both because just jumping straight into it makes it so you can't actually enjoy him as Robin and because you're asking for quite a bit of set up to ultimately land in: "Nevermind, he's gone and won't come back until he's a villain much later." On the flip side trying to do a comic continuity where Jason is Robin and Dick Nightwing will just cause the legion of Tim fans to start complaining about him not getting shafted so they can have Tim show up. Maybe a random adaption of some Jason story for a one off animated movie might work, but that's only if there's a story that could support a whole movie. Alternatively trying to do something with him as Red Hood doesn't really work because no one knows what to do with him in a way that's satisfying for everyone or how to address the elephant in the room about his death and the Joker and it comes along with all that needless baggage retconning Batman into this crappy and grim character.
>>149440745
I feel like that's irrelevant since that was really just them being told to set it apart from the previous series and wanting to use Nightwing (which is what it always comes back to) though I wouldn't be opposed to them just saying to heck with it and using the Jason/Tim composite from that show in the mainstream since it seems to be the thing that puts all this other nonsense to rest. Then you can have your red Robin with Nightwing and not have to deal with Death in the Family/Red Hood, The Killing Joke/Oracle, or any of the needless spares.
>>149441005
True.
>>149441089
Of course.

>>149438055
>Modern harley try way to hard to make harley a sympathetic character, abused by the joker, when originally she became a psychologist passing by having sex with her teachers while she wanted to known joker to be famous for being the one curing him, for money.
>Harley was never dragged into joker's world of insanity, she voluntarily got in, while she was a massive psychopath for her own hands. Not only joker.
So Punchline really is a retread of OG flavor Harley, interesting to know. I wish the parallels were explored more, but we all know DC will never do it.

>>149441034
> An ENTIRE basket of sweet potatoes
> Jason eating that bacon like it's a Ghibli egg
> Tim's Hitler Youth haircut
Yeesh

>>149441331
>Jace Fox was effectively created by a black writer(based off an existing one, but entirely reinvented) and he's pretty mediocre, but he's generally outside the batfamily wheelhouse.
Well, Jace Fox didn't catch on specifically because the black writer in question was overcompensating. He tried so fucking hard to make Jace Fox so much better and cooler than Bruce Wayne, the fans eventually told him to fuck off, because who the fuck is this usurper and why are you trying so hard to replace Bruce with him? Especially since between Dick, Tim and Damian, there is an entire conga line of potential successors that fans actually like and you are sidestepping all of them.

>>149441409
Jason todd can't work on adaptations because robin as a concept is barerly explored on movies and tv shows besides titans.
Michael Schumacher killed the whole concept of robin as batman sidekick and you can't really have jason tood if dick can't exist in the first place.
Jason being popular proves nothing if the character is terrible in the first place, just look at what they did to harley quinn. She got a pass for being popular and every single oldfag not she's just a husk of what she's suposed to be.

>>149441118
He's there to add ambience and flesh out the cast, to make the world feel more lived in. I've noticed this since reading the Ditko run on Spider-Man. It felt so much more vibrant having Pete bounce off JJ and Betty at work, then Flash and Liz at school, and Aunt May at home. They're the type of people that make the world feel genuine and give you a breather so that it's not just endless swinging around and fighting which gets stale and hollow after awhile. Keeping it small, with lively personalities lets you develop a nice rhythm rather than endless one line cameos.

Also,
> Why have a character people LIKE when they can have fifty they DON'T LIKE
Kek

>>149441439
I think those are croissants in the basket

>>149441172
Lol. Really, it's because that's what she is. Maybe there's something you could do if you gave her a solo about some hacker vigilante, but that's not what she's about and not what anyone wants. They want her as a Batman supporting character, and if that's what she's doing than Oracle can only be a secretary.

>>149441184
I do want an eternal BTAS formula. If nothing else, I want a return to that and for it to go on for a decade or so.

>>149441331
It's a rather big ask that every popular comic character not only add a black person to the cast but then only allow the title to be written by black people from now on because: "Come on, bro, please."

>>149441482
Yeah people nowadays want action with no substance or world building. Makes me remember the spider-man raimi movies where every single youngling hated aunt may scenes, but when you are old, you know how much weight aunt may speech have on peter's mind.
The same with the entire daily bugle crew. Or in batman case, the actual batman secondary cast that is jim gordon, lucius fox, harvey bullock. And the rest of the gotham city police, while alfred was the most importan man on bruce life.

>>149441511
There's always going to be miniseries and stories for that. there should always be a LOTDK series running for that stuff, too.

>>149441420
Of course not, and for multiple reasons: 1. They would have to admit they were wrong. 2. It would enrage the woke mob. 3. It would eventually result in her just becoming Harley Quinn 2.0 and one of them would need to be shelved because of it.

>>149441490
That makes more sense, but they could've used just a tad more rendering.

>>149441506
Technically, she has Birds of Prey... and she's a tertiary character in her own book.
And it's still funny that DC considers Oracle a "promotion" over Batgirl because of current editorial's 2000 nostalgia, even if she's being blatantly sidelined every step of the way.

Just have Bruce and Selena marry already. Never liked Talia because of Damian

>>149441519
Having black characters only being written by black writers is a stupid concept.
A good writer can make a good story that's it, if a characters sucks is because the writer is not that good.
For real sometimes i can't understand america and their racial mess, getting into fiction of all places.

>>149441519
I'm not saying you need to add black people to every cast or only have black writers write them, I'm just saying that if they are going to add black characters they shouldn't pussyfoot around giving them actual character dynamics. Don't just make them entirely nonoffensive and nondescript. Because that's becoming a recurring issues- either they're just wallpaper or they get heavily glazed, both of which makes the tokenism more obvious.

>>149441534
Is there a current miniseries that uses the BTAS formula?
>>149441521
Exactly. Heck, I even liked Dr. Leslie Thompkins and Rupert Thorn in the cartoon adding some extra background to the world even if Leslie was rarely utilized and Thorn was rarely a serious threat.

>>149441553
I thought about Birds of Prey, but like you said, she's tertiary in that book. She's basically just Professor Xavier with less agency. The only way you could show her off would be to give her a solo where she has to wheel around doing legwork under the guise of being a innocuous wheelchair girl, or working as a secretary down at GCPD or something getting clued into things then using her hacking skills and such to save the day though you would either have to not have her ever do physical combat or have some kind of android she remotely controls or something. Otherwise she's just going to continuously get sidelined for the more active character.

>>149440998
>Now this is a strange take
Not really. Babs isn't "family". Even in her peak she was an independent operator.

>>149441556
I agree. Really it's just because the audience for that isn't going to be satisfied unless they get the cake and eat it, too and there's a lot of loud and obnoxious people who amplify that sentiment and use their connections to apply pressure internally.
>>149441560
I agree, though I feel like it's near impossible nowadays because everyone's just waiting for an opportunity to complain about it.

>>149435368 (OP)
I like the Bat Family. What I hate is people sitting around the house having foodsies.

>>149441555
Talia was a cool character when she was the fragile femenine princess, that was extremely good in contrast to r'has but writers nowadays forgot how she used to be good at some point and started to despict her as bad if not worse than her father.
But she worked better as a love interest, not the mother of bruce child.
Damian should have never existed anyway.

>>149441587
I was actually thinking about the current Birds of Prey. It ironically showcase why Oracle DOESN'T work anymore at this point. Babs can absolutely just suit up and take a more proactive approach... but she doesn't, because that would defeat the purpose of the Oracle.
Previously, Oracle was glued to the computer, because that was the only thing she could do, being crippled and all. Now she's glued to a computer... because editorial tells her to?

>>149435368 (OP)
I don't consoom capeshit. are they his adopted orphans? they'd be kino if they were

>>149441639
Call me stupid but I always like Huntress being Batman’s daughter or the Brave and the Bold take on Damian
https://youtu.be/tIDJYMQ291c?feature=shared

>>149439458
Holy shit, don't tell me that's Cass. Fucking wew, Bruce you dog.

>>149441654
Selina being damian mother while damian was a robin in a really far future when dick was batman could have made more sense, than what happened in the comic.
Can we agree too the actual lad that actually deserved to be batman from the future was terry mcginnis?

>>149441682
If you ignore the swap semen injection yeah

>>149441439
>> Tim's Hitler Youth haircut
He looks good with it

>>149441567
>Is there a current miniseries that uses the BTAS formula?
If we take BTAS/ Classic 70's-80's story templates as that formula, Batman Dark Patterns and Batman Full moon are largely Batman solo stories with no Batfamily and at most a few characters like Zatanna appearing.
if you extend it to include a Robin with minimal Batfamily, there's Robin & Batman: Jason Todd

>>149441690
Yeah, that was the only letdown, but terry was an actual cool character.

Do we really need Tim?

>>149441034
That's a cute Barbara

>>149441654
Huntress is largely pointless if she's not Batman and Catwoman's daughter. They could never commit to her being she-punisher so she has no real kills, and then they made her a no-kill character anyway. she's vaguely bat themed but doens't stick to Gotham, the BoP don't really need her either.
Batman and Catwoman's daughter is such a cool idea that anything else seems underwhelming.
>>149441682
The BATB cartoon basically blends the Bruce Wayne Jr. stories from the golden age, a dash of Earth 2 Huntress with Selina being Bruce's wife(in the GA stories it was Batwoman), and the modern use of Damian as Batman's son.

>>149441034
Why are they all blind?

>>149441722
He has more fans than most DC characters,so yes.

>>149441409
>I feel like that's irrelevant since that was really just them being told to set it apart from the previous series and wanting to use Nightwing (which is what it always comes back to)
But the audience isn't privy to what's behind the scenes, they just know they saw a series with Nightwing, Batgirl,and Robin. Even with tertiary knowledge of the comics people understand this as a setup that exists, even when it didn't exactly exist in the comics.

>>149441741
When all else fails do triplets with Bruce and Selena have each one go down paths either parent would like and dislike
>Helena goes to Huntress path
>Damian goes Batman
>Third either goes criminal/anti hero or full punisher

>>149441654
I forgot how good batman the brave and the bold was, it despicted all the comic characters right and their heroic deeds.
The only letdown was that they killed selina and bruce to make damian a robin and a batman, that was really unnecessary. But i liked how the whole cast said bye at the end as of the whole show was a theather play.

>>149441651
Dick, Jason and Tim are. Damian is his biological rapespawn with the main villainess from TDKR.

>>149441722
Yes, he was the first robin, that was so relevant they gave him his own solo book.
He's the only other hero rha's al ghul respects to be called detective.
Nowadays he's forgotten in favor of damian, but if you know robins history, dick and Tim were the best.

>>149435368 (OP)
I think its cringe

>>149441781
The Batman was also good. I also liked Vicki Vale in that one

>we'll be getting Damian and Cass in the Gunnverse
Eh, there go my hopes of having a compact Batfam in the new movie DCverse.

>>149441651
Dick, Jason, Tim and Cass are adopted.
Damian is his biological son.
Babs, Steph and Duke have their own parents.

>>149441893
Waht were you hoping for? also Gunn has been talking about Cass for decades now so I don't know what you expected.

>>149441894
Aren't Tim's parents also alive?
That's what made him unique amongst the Batfam. Similarly to Babs pre-TKJ, he wasn't a traumatized mess with a dark backstory.

>>149441929
Dixon kept Tim's dad alive despite editorial wanting to kill him off, because he said that was his niche to set him apart, and gave him conflict and responsibility. A year after he leaves Tim's dad gets killed, and he gets set on the path that makes everyone who started reading comics around the late 2000's think of him as redundant.

>>149441922
I was hoping for Bruce and Tim duo. With Babsgirl and Nightwing showing up occasionally, but generally doing their own thing in the background.
Also, we haven't seen them on the movie screen yet, so Cass and Damian can wait. Seniority, bitch.

>>149441929
>Aren't Tim's parents also alive?
Holy shit dude, when was the last time you read comics?
Tim has been an orphan since like 2004.

>>149435368 (OP)
I know what I want for breakfast.

>>149441929
He was adopted by bruce for being a witness protection anyway so his parents being alive doesn't change things that much.
Is kinda stupid if you ask me, why he needs to be with bruce if his homies and cousins are alive?

>>149441951
Didn't that change in New 52 again?

>>149441960
>>149441979
His New 52 origin isn't canon anymore, they're dead again.

Jason is so under utilized, both as Robin and as RH, that it is criminal. He has the potential of being very interesting, being the walking tragedy, Batman's and Bruce's failure, the lonely Robin.

>>149441986
Thank god, never understood that new 52 stupid retcon.

>>149441979
Well yeah, but even then he was adopted by Bruce and his parents were irrelevant so they might as well have been dead anyway.
Also, his Pre-Flashpoint lore is back, so the New 52 shit isn't canon anymore.

>>149441994
He does have a flashback as Robin series currently and an upcomming series with Huntress.

>>149441994
Every Batfamily member that isn't Nightwing (because he sells) or Cassandra Cain (because current editorial has a boner for her) is underutilized at this point.

>>149441994
Jason was better as a corpse, him being revived by editorial mandates. Was as stupid as reviving gwen stacy.

>>149441986
Jesus who wrote this, this is tim drake hate at his finest.

>>149441986
With Bludhaven not being a smoking, toxic crater his stepmom should be alive.

>>149441639
I agree, though my introduction to her was BtAS. I like how she and Ra's always result in a big globe spanning Jonny Quest type adventure, and she had a nice appeal when she was the reluctant daughter of a villain who knew his secret identity. She hypothetically could be his perfect bride and even fight alongside him, but she's too loyal to her family to do so and Batman would never betray his morals and join Ra's.

>>149442058
Don't quote me on this, but I think according to pic related, which is about a boy who can talk to cities, Bludhaven did still get bombed.

>>149442010
>Cassandra Cain (because current editorial has a boner for her)
it's partly that, but also because DC is in a constant state of following whoever runs the movies. I'm not sure if Gunn has any actual plans for Cass yet, and these plans have proven pretty mercurial anyway until there's actual filming in progress, but they know Gunn likes Cass and are anticipating him using her.

>>149442006
>Also, his Pre-Flashpoint lore is back, so the New 52 shit isn't canon anymore.
Isn't DC's gimmick nowadays that everything is canon even if it contradicts itself? That's not a very good way of introducing new readers into the universe, but I guess DC doesn't care.

>>149442077
It would be amusing if he actually ends up using Babs or Steph, because they are easier to introduce. And then DC editorial would feel stupid, because they spend so much energy sidelining them in favour of Cass.

>>149442009
Doubt it'll be any good. It'll probably jerk off how he looked up to Bruce and how he expects the future to be bright "Ohhh the irony".
>Huntress
Should've revived Vic and given the people what they wanted.
>>149442010
You can't be serious. Jason has been under utilized since forever. Everyone else had something at multiple points in their careers. He finally had 1 thing going on and it was taken from him.
>>149442013
Jason at least has a background of super hero work. Reviving Gwen and turning her into a Deadpool derivative was way more retarded.

>>149441654
>>149441741
Now, I want to see an AU where Huntress is Damien's older sister. Where's a Westaboo artist to draw 12 year old loli Huntress in costume running around with a grumpy Damien and a chucking Bruce and Selina in the background?

>>149441704
I'll check them out, but disappointing there's nothing with Bruce, Dick, Babs, and Alfred.

>>149442138
>loli
Come on man don’t ruin it

>>149442077
Considering how Gunn's Superman isn't doing as well as DC had hoped and Reeves and Pattinson seem adamant on not being merged into the new DCU, a non-Reeves Batman movie, and by extension the utilization of Cass, seems increasingly unlikely.

>>149441722
No, but Timfags will die before they admit it.

>>149442115
It's kinda funny that he never mentioned Steph besides that list of comic girls he'd bang years ago, considering his Ratcatcher II OC is another daughter of a Batman c-list villain(although one who likes her father). When asked about his favorite BAtgirl he just mentioned Babs and Cass but not Steph.
Had he mentioned Batgirls when that was running it probably would've saved that book for a little bit

>>149442151
Well, Alfred's been dead, but Dick and Babs usually work together in his Nightwing book. Babs even gets to do something once in a blue moon.

>>149442151
>but disappointing there's nothing with Bruce, Dick, Babs, and Alfred.
>babs
Tall order, she's barely in BTAS and she wasn't even in the classic comics that much, especially not operating with Batman. This is a case where you want an idea rather than anything that resembles a regular setup.

>>149441767
I'll give you that point, but will argue it falls a part a bit once they realize Tim from the show doesn't exist outside of the show. That's how it was for me, at least, and a big factor that prevents me from liking Tim and Jason now (their extra baggage doesn't help.) I will say, though, outside of Barbara looking sexy in the redesign it's always seemed a popular opinion that the original artstyle was better and as such harkens back to the Bruce, Dick, Babs set up. I remember always wishing there were more episodes of that over TNBA, though as time went on obviously I wished for more of that over JL(U), and then everything that came afterwards, even though I liked JL(U).

>>149442168
Because let's be honest, Steph's career as Batgirl is just a drop in the ocean. She's Spoiler, first and foremost.

>>149441893
With Battison or are they doing another reboot?

Also, I have zero faith in either of them being handled well by Gunn.

>>149442187
NTA, but she had a prominent role in TNBA as Batman's number two. That's where the setup comes from. And it was a good setup, with her being essentially a replacement for Nightwing, who was busy moping/in Bludhaven.

>>149441960
> We need to put you in witness protection
> Lol, no, you can't bring your minor child with you.

>>149442201
Most people don't overthink the robin in the dynamic. Doesn't matter if it's Tim or Damian or some hybrid of Tim and Jason. Ultimately I think you're projecting a lot of your own feelings into this.

>>149441994
It really doesn't work in an ongoing sense, though. Eventually you have to contend with Bruce just not addressing it which doesn't make any sense.

>>149442058
The retcon changed reality so Bludhaven didn't get blown up but Tim's Stepmom still died in the explosion. It's been very hard for him.

>>149442075
I hate everything about that sentence KEK

>>149442115
>they are easier to introduce
Poor Cass, the only movie adaptation people will know her from will be that Harley Quinn/Birds of Prey movie.

>>149442236
Yeah, but anon is talking about BTAS specifically because the whole point of discussion was something like that formula where Dick is still Robin.
Though going back to the initial point generally we do get a few solo Batman minis, rare that they'll feature Robins or Batgirls though.

Hot take, but the only current Batman media in recent memory with a very good Batfamily dynamic was Gotham Knights.
Game's quality aside, THIS is the Batfamily I want to see in comics/movies.

>>149442274
Good for her.
Because when you think about it, her character is ridiculous.

>>149442246
Meh, maybe so but I don't see a lot of people who didn't come up on the Tim comics or get introduced to him as "the gay one" liking him. For me, comic Tim is just this weird guy that's not Dick and Jason's just this tryhard trying to turn Batman into an edgy Seinen, same with Cass to a lesser extent.
>>149442187
So, you're telling me it's never really been done, is the obvious choice, and the most normie friendly one? That seems like the most compelling argument possible to do it in mainstream comics since it will not only be "fresh and new" but draw in a crowd of people who don't read comics because they're a convoluted mess filled with characters they don't know.

>>149442290
I shudder to ask, but who are either of them supposed to be?

>>149435368 (OP)
Same reason I hate all hero families: they add too many characters.

>>149442270
Why? If Coast City got rebuilt, why not Bludhaven?

>>149442318
>So, you're telling me it's never really been done, is the obvious choice, and the most normie friendly one
That's technically what New 52 was trying to do at first, but then it all fall apart once DC was forced to introduce Damian because Morrison threw a tantrum and then Cassfags started kwetching about muh Cass and now here we are with 128 Robins and Batgirls running around.

>>149442138
Nowadays, the implication is that Helena comes after Damian, she'd be the younger sister.

>>149442158
>Considering how Gunn's Superman isn't doing as well as DC had hoped
No one here really believe this anon.

>>149442337
It's more that a relatively important piece of lore is being confirmed in some random Z-list story about a dude who can talk to the disembodied spirits of inanimate objects. I like the concept itself as a stand alone and don't have any feelings about the Bludhaven stuff, but imagine having to explain the lore to someone about Batman and being like: "Oh, yeah, so like ten years ago there was this random oneshot about this guy that doesn't really fit in this specific title and it TOTALLY SAID.."

>>149442318
again you're overthinking it.
People are used to the idea of Dick growing up to become Nightwing, and it's popular because it's a cool bit of progress. People who watched the 03Titans cartoon or played the Arkham games understand it as part of the character's progress. I don't see them reverting to a BTAS set up when even BTAS' sequel changed things. Nightwing is just part of the zeitgeist.
When they want Dick as Robin, they'll simply due comics set in the past, which we got with World's Finest and Robin and Batman

>>149442340
Ay ay ay. Maybe I'll check out this New 52 garbage. Also, kek at Morrison trying to play it cool and be like: "I'm surprised they're still using him, I thought he would've been killed off by now." then throwing a shit fit because muh royalties need to keep coming in.

>>149442347
I'd prefer it the other way around but I'm curious where this comes from and would like to see more.
>>149442369
Eh. Possibly, but I feel like it's one of those things where they don't feel strongly either way. Nightwing was a possible future thing in TT, and while he is cool I'd say his more diehard fans are the comic readers. The general audience can take it either way.

>>149435439
And then he had Batwoman, Batgirl and Huntress. Funny how Bat has a loner rep in the public consciousness when he had a bigger vigilante group than even Superman.
Even Miller had him train an army at this of DKR.

>>149442376
New 52 is hit or miss, but I found the Batbooks pretty decent. Red Hood started a bit rough, with slutty Starfire, but then in found its footing. And Simone's Batgirl alright, if grimdark as fuck.

>>149442174
>>149442187
>>149442340
We forgot The Batman. That's probably the one piece of media with the most Bruce, Alfred, Dick, and Barbara content now that I think about it.

>>149442408
>The Batman
You mean the 2004 show? I've never seen it.

>>149442403
Red hood and the outlaws got better when artemis amd bizarro became jason teamates, statfire and arsenal were terrible teamates compared.

>>149442386
>The general audience can take it either way.
Nah, I think people generally don't like Robin being too old. It's sort of a humiliating role after a certain age. People like Robin but also like joking on the role,they like Dick's personality but having him be a sidekick is sort of demeaning if you want him able to do more mature things.
Nightwing allows people to enjoy the character with a more dignified look, where as a younger character can then be Robin(and it doesn't really matter as much which is Robin,as long as he has the little brother dynamic)
Titans stuff is sort of an exception because the animated ones keep him younger, visually, when he's Robin.

>>149442412
Nta, but awesome batman show, until the tone changed for having robin, batgirl and the justice league, but a cool show notheless.
I advice to see the batman vs dracula tv movie, it was spectacular.

>>149442412
Yeah, that one. It's pretty good, though a different take on the character. One thing I like is they introduced Barbara first so you get her an Bruce as a duo for a season before Dick comes in. It was an interesting dynamic.

Also, Batman & Mr. Freeze: Sub-Zero

>>149442365
If it makes you feel better, I think it's been referenced in other comics, it's just that the story where the main character can literally communicate with cities was the first thing that came to my mind.
Really, this is just a consequence of the New 52 bringing back Bludhaven, and then when Pre-Flashpoint canon got reinstated, they had to reference at some point the city got blown up.

>>149442427
True, but Dick works pretty well at 17. Anywhere between 16-19 lets him keep his charm without being too old, and non comic readers don't have a lot of frame of reference for older Dick. Heck, they probably remember him most from Teen Titans.

>>149442432
>Batman & Mr. Freeze: Sub-Zero
Anything asociated with the dcau was a gem, except that modern film focusing on harley quinn.

>>149442386
>I'm curious where this comes from
For starters, the fact that Damian is already born, while Helena isn't.
They've also implied Helena will still be born in many possible futures by King, Johns, etc.

>>149442130
>Reviving Gwen and turning her into a Deadpool derivative
Gwenpool isn't Gwen Stacy and isn't much of a Deadpool either.

>>149442429
>>149442432
Ironically, I've skipped the show, because back then I thought I was too old for it. I might give it a go at some point.
And yeah, I haven't seen Sub-Zero in a while. I should rewatch it.

>>149442436
>and then when Pre-Flashpoint canon got reinstated, they had to reference at some point the city got blown up.
I still think Infinite Frontier was a mistake, because at one point DC is going to crumble under that "everything is canon" bullshit and be forced to reboot AGAIN.
And at this point DC really needs a reboot, because I am trying to pay attention to the "new canon" and I'm still getting lost.

>>149441894
Cass was never officially adopted and the whole thing was dropped completely after Flashpoint.

>>149442490
Nah, it's unironically been their best decision in years, either everything matters, or nothing matters, now they have the freedom to reference whatever they want.
>because I am trying to pay attention to the "new canon" and I'm still getting lost.
You don't HAVE TO pay attention to that, you know? Like, I thought I had to read everything to understand everything before getting into DC but that really isn't the case.
New stories will reference and bring up whatever is needed, it's not that complicated man.

So, have they eventually provided an explanation as to why Babs is Oracle again outside of "I'm kinda having that phase right now"?

>>149435409
I liked Batwoman better when she wasn't fully affiliated

>>149442448
Oh, that was atrocious. Literally one of the worst things I've ever seen and I couldn't even finish it. It's quite tragic since they did get the cast back and were using the old designs (save Nightwing's haircut) but everything was horrific. Even the animation was weird and jittery like an indie short someone did themselves in some scenes.

>>149442531
I believe she just wants to take it easy on her implants.
That way, she can be Oracle like everyone wants, but if DC wants the marketable Batgirl, she can put on the costume and do shit herself.
The real reason is that everyone liked Babs better as Oracle.

>>149442548
Well, she really isn't now, we barely see her, specially with Batman or the Bat-Family in general, she's very distant.

>>149442453
Ah, well that would make sense, especially if you care to follow those writers. Though, I will say if they ever do put her back in they're most likely going to retcon her in as already being an adult.

It would be kind of hilarious to see Huntress pull a Damien and be another "long lost child" of Bruce who shows up to badmouth and beat everyone up, including him.

>>149442551
>The real reason is that everyone liked Babs better as Oracle
Turned out everybody liked the nostalgic memory of the Oracle, rather than the character itself. Because once Tynion reintroduced her, the general consensus seems to be "ok, this character is actually pretty lame".
Grass is always greener and all.

>>149442558
I mean, whenever they bring up Helena, she is an adult, but her stories either take place in the future or she travels back into the past, they're sticking to her not being born yet.

>>149442558
Anon I take it you don’t really read comics

>>149442471
Sub-Zero kicks ass, always loved it as a kid, and it's what really sold Barbara for me. The scene of Dick and Jim talking at the gala while she beats up criminals, then speeds over to make a grand entrance and dance/flirt with Dick is one of my favorites of all time. The ambience of it is just so warm and zestful, I've been chasing that high ever since.

Fair, I was around that age, too, and a little put off by the abrupt art and tone change from BtAS, but it wins you over and is really cool in it's own right. They do a lot of neat "modernizing" of things into an early 00's aesthetic and have some really unique takes on the characters. Say what you will, but they definitely took risks and tried to do something original and it paid off, even if some of the things aren't my favorite (their Ivy, nixing the tragic Freeze backstory even if he looks really cool, the whole Justice League thing they eventually get into, etc.) Their Joker, while not my favorite, is amazing and I almost wish they could have him and the regular Joker in canon at the same time. Honestly I'm forever disappointed they didn't use the Three Jokers thing as an excuse to do exactly that. And as the other Anon said, the Batman vs Dracula movie is top tier and one of the best Halloween movies.

>>149442490
It's quite a shame. There really should be an editor keeping everything straight but I guess that's too much to ask from them nowadays. I really don't get how hard it is to not massively change canon every five seconds but I guess it's a bunch of fanboys trying to either prop themselves up or force in their favorite stories.

I guess I can't complain too much, though. If I were a writer I'd be trying to make massive changes to the Batcanon myself.

>>149442569
I've always mission control is kind of a boring role to have.

>>149442531
No lol

>>149442598
Well, they are making a New DC History book, so hopefully that should clear some things up a bit.

>>149442602
Yeah, it's a boring desk job.
That's why I think they should've been going into Batgirl doing cyber-espionage shit, like JC Denton with boobs and Batcostume. But for some reason DC can't figure out the obvious.
Babs being Batfamily's girl on the phone is the least interesting thing they can do with her.

>>149442583
I've read a bit of famous runs and arrived at a point where I want to start from the Golden Age and work my way forward. Right now I'm going through Spider-Man. So, for Bats I've read the first couple Golden Age issues, Year One, Miller Bats, Dark Victory, Long Halloween, Hush, Tales of Demon al Ghul compilation, Court of Owls, the Morrison run, Murder at Wayne Manor, and some Elseworlds stuff like Batman/Dracula, Batman/Frankenstein, Gotham by Gaslight, Earth Two, that one where he's handcuffed to Joker, Going Sane, Widening Gyre, and a few others I can't quite recall. A big problem I had before was getting confused as to where to pick up when I hit the end of the trade paperbacks because I wanted to keep going but had trouble finding the issues and keeping the reading order straight. I tried hopping on to storytimes during the King run and just wasn't feeling it, and again when the Bloom stuff was happening (I can't remember if that was King, Snyder, or someone else) and was curious about that prep school thing everyone loved but never got around to it. The impression I've gotten is that a lot of the stuff going on right now and even in recent history has been rather mid and disappointing, though, so I've been more focused on finding older stuff to check out while I wait for it to "get good" again.

>>149442606
Maybe (though I feel like a year or two in those get tossed in the trash by writers doing their own thing.) I've always felt those are kind of silly. Like, just keep them in line. It shouldn't be too hard to not have each new writer blow everything up or to tel the guy writing Green Lantern not to shove in some random tidbit that changes how Krypton worked or something.

>>149442598
I guess DC did that "everything is canon" shit to avoid complaints that New52 had that a lot of characters fans liked got sidelined during the reboot, like Casandra Cain, Tim Drake and Wally West. So now everything is valid and all characters are prominent (on paper) so that DC can have a cake and eat it too.
Except that didn't solve shit, because now as an example Cassandra Cain and Wally West gained prominence, but Babs Gordon and Barry Allen got fucked in the process. And Tim is still being upstaged by Damian. So now we have a "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" situation when fans of those characters are complaining instead.

>>149441959
>Gookgirl faggot adds nothing to the discussion
Typical

>>149439716
>Continuation of Bruce's bloodline and the Wayne family legacy.
Most works leave that for the epilogue and ever after. It's nothing significant.

>>149440057
Tribalism.

>>149440057
casuals and secondaries like Jason
/co/nnoisseurs all love dick

>>149436690
How many fucking kids did Fox pump out?

>>149440318
Why would they need an excuse since DC don't use Alfred "Important" Pennyworth anyway.

>>149440492
Yeah, OK, whatever you say, Dan.

>>149442260
No, Bludhaven was still bombed, casual.
It got better.

>>149441257
You wouldn't recognize who they are without it.
>>149441704
>Robin & Batman: Jason Todd
Trash and it's nothing like BTAS. Bruce and Dick are not even in bad terms like in the show or the old comics.

>>149441567
>Is there a current miniseries that uses the BTAS formula?
Batman: Dark Patterns is a solo ongoing set pre-Robin.
Batman and Robin: Year One is a maxiseries
Batman/Superman: World's Finest this idealized Silver/Bronze age DCU, with Batman, Superman, and Robin as the main characters.

>>149442427
>able to do more mature things.
He doesn't do more mature thing as Nightwing or as a Titans. He's just doesn't have Batman patronizing him like a child, which is why Robin become humiliating past a certain age.

>>149443219
>Bruce and Dick are not even in bad terms like in the show or the old comics.
They weren't on bad terms in the old comics, casual. That was all built up through retcons years after Dick became Nightwing. This is going back to the original relationship.

>>149443256
>casual
Idiot, it's a different continuity. Dick was in bad terms with Bruce in Post-crisis because he got fired and realized that Bruce hired Jason behind his back not long after. The new Robin book is not following any pre-existing story, continuity or canon or this would also have to reset Jason as what he was during pre-crisis. A blond and campy boy scout.

>>149437124
I'm a big Batman fan and I read his first appearance but I forgot about him.

>>149435911
Bruce Tim is that you?

>>149443300
>Casual says casual things
Have you read any Nightwing comics published since Death Metal? They're back to the original Nightwing origin. Jason kept his street kid origin.

>>149435368 (OP)
My ideal would be
Bruce being Batman
Alfred being Alfred
Damian being Robin
Dick being Nighwing leading a team and visits once in awhile.
Jason: a black sheep that rarely interacts with the bat family. Being in the outlaws and what not. I'd have him being a Rick Flag type leader of the Suicide Squad if they haven't done that yet.
Tim and Steph both married and retired and raising the next generations of heroes.
Cassandra as Batgirl, but is a more international hero.
Barbs becomes a detective for the GPD.

The other character are gone form cannon.

>>149435368 (OP)
>hate
>Bat-senpai

>>149443368
No,why would I. But thanks for confirming they're cherry picking between continuities and it's nothing like the old comics.

>>149443453
NTA, but cherrypicking is how this cheerful "everything is canon" shit works. At one point Dick conveniently announced he has a degree in law, because he had it in one continuity sometime, at some point.

>>149443501
Yeah, this lack of integrity is partly why I don't bother with DC anymore. I just wanted to point out anon was full of shit. Thanks, though.

>>149443453
Of course they're cherrypicking. Even my original post was cherrypicking.
>Bruce and Dick are not even in bad terms like in the show or the old comics.
>Bruce and Dick are not even in bad terms
>Bruce and Dick
It went back to the old comics. Retard.

I LIEK CHOCOLATE MILK

>>149435368 (OP)
Everyone in this image besides Batman needs to die in a fire or be wiped from continuity.

>>149441082
Duke needs to be flirting with Cass. Joking with Dick about how big Barbara’s ass has gotten lately. Tell Damian to loosen up. And whisper to Tim if he’s so serious about hooking yo with boys, then Steph’s open season.

>>149444176
Duke doesn't make any sense in the current timeline.
He's only a few years older than Damian but he was old enough to help save Batman in Zero Year.

>>149435368 (OP)
>putting chocolate chips on pancakes after they're already cooked
>instead of putting them in while they're cooking
There's always weird shit like this in comic book art that reminds me comic book artists aren't real people.

>>149444205
He’s closer to Tim’s age than Damian’s.
>>149444176
Yeah. Have him flirt with the single Batgirls. At least that gives him some character.
Also he should be the one more trusting to Jason than anyone since the Joker jokerized his parents.

>>149435563
he only read the drawings

>>149435409
This. There's a guy running around New York (or I guess Atlanta now) dressed as Batman, calling himself Batman, and he's never even met the actual Batman. That's the point we're at.

>>149444249
Jace is in Atlanta now?

>>149444263
As of the Power Company Recharged one-shot, yeah.

>>149435368 (OP)
There's nothing inherently wrong with the Batfamily outside of writers trying to cram all of them into stories together. Just because they are a "family", doesn't mean they have to be around each other 24/7.

Plus, with so much retconning and changing, the characters I read growing up are completely different to the characters that exist now.

With so many different iterations and characters, though, it's becoming a huge mess and nothing ever changes leading to stagnation and the death of actual character development.

Why does Duke exist when Jason is already the black rep?

>>149444220
It's called a garnish, you peasant.

>>149444309
Jason is a wigger. A wannabe. He isn’t black rep.

>>149444220
It's more that comic art is largely done by ESLs these days getting poorly translated scripts and no real interactions with the writer to specify things. They will jut take everything matter-of-fact because their job is just to illustrate exactly as they get the script, as far as they now.
If the machine translated script says something like tossing chocolate chips on pancakes but neglects to mention "batter", they aren't going to reach out to the editor who sent the script and ask, they can barely speak english, they're just going to do exactly as the script says.
This is also how we get things like a modern forklift in that Avatar comic.

Duke should tap that shit.

Message to all the nigger porn addicts polluting this thread and board: please kill yourselves. Thank you.

>>149444583
No way. This is too entertaining.

>>149435368 (OP)
I love the bat-family. But i dislike certain characters because they are forced.

>>149443300
>y. Dick was in bad terms with Bruce in Post-crisis because he got fired and realized that Bruce hired Jason behind his back not long after.
That only started being a thing in Nightwing Year One, Bruce and dick avoided each other when he became Nightwing,but it was less a harsh firing and more a parting of ways since they couldn't see the partnership work anymore.
Nightwing Year One has always been a bit controversial for adding some over-the-top drama to the split, and making Jason's whole intro more messed up.

>>149444583
It’s literally just one dude who responds to himself. You can tell because he always does it on his iphone.

>>149442459
Anon... check the news...

>>149435368 (OP)
It doesn’t make sense and makes you people’s batgod look incompetent. He’s supposed to be able to handle every situation and a plan for everything but needs sidekicks?

>>149435368 (OP)
It mostly just comes off as stupid when multiple comics have been about/multiple characters have brought up how it's not a good thing that Bruce keeps recruiting young people into his war. Now the norm is: Bruce will keep recruiting young people, and if any of them die as a result they'll be brought back and they'll all have a movie night together so it's fine.

>>149445023
I would say the people who like the batfamily generally dislike the Batgod/contingency plan stuff.
The people who love batgod/preptime are more powerleveling people who want him solo or feel he doesn't need anyone.

>>149441089
Absolutely a staple. Even with the bloated bat family Bruce needs a confidant, someone to bounce ideas off of. He is basically the Watson to his Sherlock.

>>149441722
Yes he's a gay icon

>>149442115
Steph is an easier sell

>>149444223
How old is Tim now? Are they still pretending he's a teenager or is he finally old enough to drink?

>>149445393
She is but DC and people who work for it ignore her for whatever reason.
Daughter of a supervillain who becomes a vigilante to spite him is a fun angle and surprisingly not really done much in adaptations. Closest would be Gamora in GOTG and even then she's not really a traditional superhero.
Then you have people here who would just give her aspects to Babs instead because Steph acts closer to Babs in adaptations than Babs did in the comics.
But in the comics it's hard to have Babs try to be both a serious Oracle and fun Batgirl and not feel schizophrenic.

>>149444223
Duke is a high school student still, right? Damian is too. Tim is a NEET with a houseboat.

>>149445436
19

>>149445451
>Then you have people here who would just give her aspects to Babs instead because Steph acts closer to Babs in adaptations than Babs did in the comics
The DCAU really was a mistake in the long run.

>>149445453
>Tim is a NEET with a houseboat.
Living the dream

>>149445451
>But in the comics it's hard to have Babs try to be both a serious Oracle and fun Batgirl and not feel schizophrenic.
You can absolutely have that. Again, Gotham Knights did it with ease. You can still have a playful Batgirl with all the necessary gravitas of post-Oracle Babs.

>>149435368 (OP)
Bats doesnt even appreciate.

>>149445517
The thing is, Babs in BTAS wasn't too unlike her comic self, takes herself really seriously, sort of bossy, straightwoman to Dick's quips. TNBA leaned in to making her more quipy and cute, maybe due to the voice change and Tara strong being pretty young.
The funny thing is she's notably older in TNBA, but it's not really remembered because she acts younger.She has a steady job and is implied to be living on her own(unless Gordon somehow didn't notice her modifying the apartment with), she's long graduated from college.
DCSHG is a parody and those personalities don't really work for the mainstream comic characters. arguably even The Batman 2004 version feels more mature than TNBA in some ways

>>149441722
I've been thinking on this for a bit.

Jason being brought in and dying aren't necessary, but they function at least to contrast with Dick's fate. Dick couldn't be Jason'd because he has to become Nightwing, sort of, and dying after becoming Nightwing wouldn't really be the same. But after Jason was Jason'd there shouldn't be another Robin since the whole point of was to cut Batman down to a solo act.
DC may have regretted that later, but narratively Tim is antithetical by nature, like if you had a son, you and him go about trying to put out forest fires secretly because of some convoluted origin story, anyway he dies horribly one day trying to do it alone, some kid shows up after the funeral saying he knows your secret and you need a child/partner so you agree instead of having him instituted. Weird analogy, but Tim is in a weirder situation. I'm not sure who Tim could be handed to without risk, but whatever.
Similarly Batman should report Barbara immediately to Gordon and he should have her moved from Gotham, she'll hate them for it but it clears them of guilt and any TKJ situation. Steph shouldn't happen either.

Funny enough I'm not fond of Damian narratively or as a character, but he has the one excuse to end up forcing the matter after Nightwing and a Dead Robin because as Bruce's son raised by the Al Ghuls if he's not kept an eye on and humored he'll probably become a problem later anyway.
Cassandra should be sent to one of Bruce's old mentors.

Kate, Selina, Helena and Duke are fuzzy since Bruce can't fully decide what they get up to even if he doesn't associate with them, he could probably report all he knows to authorities for everyone but Kate. She'd probably take him down with her if he did.

So Alfred, Bruce, Dick by circumstance, Jason briefly and Damian reluctantly are really the only necessities narratively.

>>149440492
>You are probably the only guy i know that really thinks having tim parents alive was a good idea.
do you mostly know people who started reading after 2004?

>>149445604
>TNBA leaned in to making her more quipy and cute, maybe due to the voice change and Tara strong being pretty young.
In TNBA, Batgirl notably swapped personalities with Nightwing. She was the charming, quippy one, while Dick was the brooding, bossy asshole most of the time. But I wouldn't say she was particularly infantile or something, she was still taking herself quite seriously most of the time. Her role was to be the heart of the team, just like Nightwing was in the comics. And arguably the darkest episode of the show revolves around her and how quickly the Batfamily dissolves when something happens to her.

>>149445465
Give it another couple years and Damian will be older than Tim.

>>149435368 (OP)
way too many members, damian and signal shouldn't exist

>>149441082
Duke was originally suppose to get Gotham Girl pregnant. So he’d be going through a “teen dad” storyline just like Steph went through a teen mom plot.
Then Gotham Girl flies away with the baby who she names Hank after her brother leaving Duke all alone and broken.

>>149439918
>Yes, but that's the reason she STAYS that way.

No. Oracle was always intended to be a permanent new role for Barbara. Barbara Gordon as Batgirl was a SHIT superhero. She has no skills, no powers, no motivation, not even a defined personality. She became a superhero as a HOBBY for fuck's sake. Babsgirl's got nothing going for her other than dumb nostalgia from a handful of fat old retards like you. As Oracle she has some measure of dignity at least.

>>149447616
Babsgirl will always, forever, be used on the marketing because a redhaired white girl will always be popular.
You will never escape that long shadow. These are IP farms. Babsgirl is a valuable IP.

>>149447616
Puckett, please.

>>149446732
That sounds way more interesting than the Bane and Thomas Wayne shit we got.

>>149447637
>>149447850
You’re not proving him wrong tho.

>>149447970
It comes off as empty whining. Fighting against the windmills. No one cares that Hal's classic GL stories might not be so good, he's back now, he's the classic Green Lantern, simple as that.
It's the same situation with Babs as Batgirl. Even if they're not prominent month to month, they're going to be the versions DC keeps coming back to.
There may not be any standout Babsgirl comics since New 52. But they're still serviceable to most people, and it's not like her replacements have anything better to show.

>>149435368 (OP)
Batmans supposed to be dark gritty and serious. Does it make sense that a dark gritty and serious Batman would knowingly endanger not one but several children?

>>149447616
>As Oracle she has some measure of dignity at least.
What "dignity"? She's nothing special at this point, just some exposition fairy at best.

>>149448018
Burnside Batgirl was good and I'm tired of pretending it wasn't.

>>149435381
This is to date my favorite approach to Batman. He acquires an army instead of a family.

>>149448104
I mean, you may not like the style of it, but the Stewart run was pretty good. It just gets lumped together with that awful Rebirth run even though that's a completely different creative team. Simone and Scott's runs were also pretty good, even if Simone's run was grimdark as fuck. And there was too much editorial meddling going on.

>>149448018
Hal is didn’t in the sense that he can actually back himself up and is a certificate draw in his own right. Babs on the other hand…

>>149448107
What's interesting is that if you actually do look into the fujo batfamily fandom, a lot of them are really obsessed with the "good soldier" aspect and the idea of Batman molding these kids into model soldiers in an army.
Don't get me wrong, since tumblr there's a big explosion of cutesy batfamily stuff. But there's at least a signifigant portion who are in it for the soldier aspect, even if it's more tied to the psychology of that.

>>149437142
>mercy action
what, they couldn't just say pity fuck?

>>149448702
She's a prude like that.

>>149443689
>of course I said something I didn't say
Well played, retard.
>>149444665
>Nightwing Year One
Batman (1940) #408. Bruce fires Dick after Joker almost killed him early in post-crisis. Just before hiring Jason. kek

>>149449273
> Batman (1940) #408
Yes anon, I’ve read it. There’s some arguing before this but ultimately it’s not a bitter split. But here there’s no angry tossing of the Robin costume or nothing, Dick is an adult and goes his own way that Bruce understands
Jason’s death arguably caused more of a rift later. Later writing, in the aftermath of Jason’s death, would emphasize that Bruce was ailing from losing Dick and jumped the gun recruiting Jason. But that would be later.

>>149447877
I not sure why Editorial canceled it but that was King’s intention.

>>149449372
>Later writing
No so later and just a different situation. Dick parts way without thinking he could be replaced and soon.

>>149449273
it's a long reply chain of batfag autism of anonymous users replying leading back to that quote.
Seems straightforward, idk. >>149443219 said it

>>149435368 (OP)
All you need are Bruce, Dick, Jason and Damian.
>B-bu Batg-
Is useless. Even Oracle is pointless. Batman is the detective and has a supercomputer.
>But Cassandra!
Has done absolutely nothing in forever and also contributes nothing.
>BUT TIM DRAKE WHAT OF TIM DRAKE
Again, what does he actually contribute to these characters? Their mythos? His one role is pulling Batman out of his rut but I don’t think that’s truly necessary and it makes him look incredibly bad in light of Jason’s death. Plus, the kid has no character beyond whump bait for women that write about underage gay sex. Were it not for BTAS none of you would even know the guy existed. He’s done that little to stand out.

So why Dick, Jason and Damian?
>Dick
The first Robin. The one who has a strained relationship with Bruce and the one who is ultimately there for him.
>Jason
The ‘failure’. Got too aggressive, rushed in and died. Could still come back as Red Hood but I’d consider keeping him as an antagonist if so. Him replacing The Joker makes sense narratively and can work in a movie or game setting just fine.
>Damian
The Blood Son. The Murderer. The boy that represents everything wrong. Everything Bruce hates in his own flesh and blood. Which is also why he makes for the perfect ‘final Robin’. He’s an assassin. He’s abnormal. Not a normal kid. Even if Bruce wanted him to stop it wouldn’t work and people could end up dead. Dick is like the angel on his shoulder while Jason is the devil. It becomes about Bruce’s ideology being tested as he tries to pass it onto his murderous son and seeing how Damian validates it by making the right choice. Combine that with Dick as the next Batman and Damian as Robin and it comes full circle. With Damian eventually becoming Batman himself.

>>149449656
Batgirl should still be there, if only because she's Dick's most important supporting character.

>>149449656
>jason and damian
No anon, is pretty clear you're way to young. Read the full thread too.

>>149450156
>, is pretty clear you're way to young
These threads always come down to what era you started getting into the comics or what cartoon you attached to the most(or which game now)

>>149448195
look, we know you like Cass and this is why you have strong feelings about Babsgirl. Can we just be transparent about that?

>>149435368 (OP)
I don’t hate it. I like it and wish there’ll be batfamily scenes with Maps

>>149435368 (OP)
Because Robin should have never existed, and now were stuck with a billion batfamily members because of him

cass

>>149435368 (OP)
I don't, but almost all the characters outlasted their arcs a long time ago and instead of writing them out after their story's over, they just hang on forever. It's like if Doctor Who companions never left the TARDIS and stuck around while the Doctor kept collecting new companions, and you were stuck with an endlessly growing cast.

>>149435368 (OP)
When I buy a batman comic (I dont) I want to see fucking batman and not 16 of his brats.
Keep Barbara,Dick,Damien and Jason as anti villian who pops up.
Autist batgirl and spoiler can go hang around with young justice\titans,tim can be removed outright,he serves no purpouse,same with duke.

>>149451931
>When I buy a batman comic (I dont) I want to see fucking batman and not 16 of his brats.
If you actually did, you'd find they don't show up, let alone 3 or 4 at a time.

>>149451931
I forgot,barbara stays crippled,dick pops up every so often from bludhaven and robin is more of a get civilians out\provide cover with slingshot support character,
Jason runs around like a punisher mixed with kingpin to keep gangs on a leash.

>>149451971
How many batfamily turns on bruce arcs we had in last 5 years ? I can think of 2 atleast and thats one too many.

>>149435368 (OP)
I'm honestly surprised they haven't done something with the entire bat-family, like an animated series.

>>149435368 (OP)
I like most of the bat-family, but a few of them (not the ones you think) have to be catapulted immediately.
Jason, Tim, and Barbara are the first ones that come to mind. They either need to retire, die or gtfo - or they need a massive rework to become viable characters again.
Jason, for example, needs to either go back to being a villain or renounce killing (like Huntress did), because the anti-hero archetype just does not work in Gotham. He's just unworkable at the moment.

>>149438342
in what issue? i wanna read that

>>149438309
Dick kissing Helena...

>>149452608
...and Babs considering popping Helena's head off. Granted I don't think she knew she was Batgirl at the time.

>>149435368 (OP)
the idea of a "bat family" foils nicely againsst bruce, who is supposed to be this stoic, impersonal character who stands out in those situations. But I feel like it erodes too much of the character when he is in those types of situations all the time. he becomes less of silent guardian, and more of stick in the mud that everyone is supposed to laugh at

>>149451749
What counts as batfamily scenes? Maps met Damian and Tim in costume, went to the Batcave with Bruce and Alfred and became Robin (for one mission), met Cass and Steph (out of costume but she’s aware of who they really are). She met almost everyone that matters except Babs, Dick and Jason.

>>149452262
>but a few of them (not the ones you think) have to be catapulted immediately.
ok
>Jason, Tim, and Barbara are the first ones that come to mind
anon you lied to me...

>>149452695
I dunno, considering Bruce lost his family as a kid, it makes complete sense to me that he would build himself a family.

>>149435368 (OP)
just stephanie brown. and because her dumbass got orpheus killed

>>149453978
She’ll make it up by having reparations of giving her body freeuse to Duke and Like.

>>149452844
I get that, and it is perfectly fine to have him working towards that. but we've gotten to a point where you step back, and look at the bigger picture, Bruce has a big enough family that they can start a fucking softball team. why is he still taking in new family. fucking stop

>remove the batfamily for a batman+alfred only run
>instant best seller
>best selling comics of 2025
I mean, it wasnt that hard

>>149435689
>89 and Returns
>dark and edgy
>not faggy and frufru
Did we watch the same movies?

>>149435368 (OP)
Batman works alone, simple as. Also I hate DickBabs.

>>149455548
They only feel campy now. At the time they were considered dark.

>>149450156
Why the fuck would anyone care about your sense of purity regarding the comics? What matters is what works best with the current iteration of the Batman setting, the character, theming, etc. When we talk about shit like this we benefit from hindsight, retrospect. And under a modern day lens the 'better' structure for the Batfamily is going to be different from some boomer or hipster's conceptualisation of it.

>>149454994
DC and Batmanfans will never admit that no Batfamily is a huge part of Absolute's success

>>149435368 (OP)
I don't, I think it makes sense to have a family live at your ESTATE/MANOR, BRUCE.
>That one stacked relative that lives like they're on a 5$ budget

>>149437122
Man, these idiots really diluted the meaning of the term "nazi", didn't they.

>>149447616
Oracle was never supposed to exist because TKJ wasn't supposed to be canon.

>>149449656
It's a good idea but I prefer sidestepping Jason entirely.

>>149451931
Have they ever tried to stick anyone except Dick and Tim on a team like the titans?

>>149456714
It makes sense. "Nazi" may have originally meant the members of the German National Socialist Party but they never called themselves that, it was always a slang word for "people I don't like" which at the time was them. Since then it's evolved to mean everything from strict authority figure to "guy who thinks the Green M&M is pretty."

>>149447616
I love it when someone talks about what they don't know with conviction.

>>149452608
This one is funny.

>>149438376
The funny thing is that after sleeping with Helena, he made sure to let Babs know.

>>149456714
I don't think it's that bad in this instance, as she's taking the piss

>>149456798
Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian have all been put on the Titans at one point or another.
Jason was always meant to be temporary.
Tim was meant to replace Dick
Damian was meant to replace Tim
But they kept using Dick's teammates and redoing the stories of Dick's Teen Titans. So they sucked.

>>149457488
Because the only thing that makes Titans sell is Dick and Wally. The alternative would be to put Supergirl on the Titans, which would be new, and not keep putting Dick Grayson's ribs to replace him.