Thread 149452891

I loved it and Superman to me is more awesome than Batman, Dante and Sonic to me, but the topic is related to the latter two.

Why are most the new optimistic and cheerful heroes total cocky quipsters and douchey frat bros who hate following the rules and bully villains?

Is being genuinely nice and humble that uncool(Superman and Captain America) and uninteresting nowadays?

>>149452891 (OP)
In Sonic's case, he was specifically created to be the anti-Mario (a character who was generally seen as nice and nonabrasive), so his original characterization was driven more by attitude and a "I'm gonna do what I want" mentality. That has carried through in some form over the past 30 years, just in different flavors given the decade. It's not solely about being uninteresting, It's simply what the character is.

>>149452891 (OP)
Bad example because Dante and Sonic are originally Japanese characters and they're based off of what they think is cool from western media. Also it's just popular among the kids because going against a society that is very harsh to those who don't conform to it. Being humble to the point of passive is basically how their society wants them to grow up into though. Ever since Covid though, things are changing at least...

>>149453073
Well put
though they are pretty similar.. Both take things in a chill manner, it's just that Sonic has to hear there is DANGER before he gets off his ass, because he's a beach bum. Mario is just like, oh you want to go go-kart racing? tennis? spin around in circles for a while to see who can do it the most? okey-dokey! he's pure positivity. Sonic is pure groove.

>>149452891 (OP)
>Why are most the new optimistic and cheerful heroes total cocky quipsters
Because that gives them an emotional drawback that they can overcome in the third act once they have to get serious. In a story where characters agency is usually dependent on their superpowers this gives them a way to improve over the story without actually needing to change or increase their powers.

>>149454074
Superman would tell Sonic to grow up and learn to be wiser

>>149454853
Sure but not every character needs to be Superman.

>>149453371
sonic was only ever lazy bum slacker in adventure 1 and that one japanese movie. i fucking miss him so much

>>149452891 (OP)
yes

>>149456560
To be fair we don't really see him in casual situations much. Most of the time he's either pulled into danger or Eggman's looking to fuck up the world. Less that he's a super proactive hero and more that there's usually some kind of threat to his way of life happening at any given time

>>149452891 (OP)
Sonic isn't "new", he came around in the early 90s, and as someone who was a little kid in the early 90s, we liked attitude.

Wolverine was more popular than Superman in the 90s and he was a complete asshole, AND had been around since what, the 70s? From the 70s-90s there was just a growing understanding of the "nice guys finish last" mentality and nobody wanted to look up to that, because only someone like Superman truly makes that work, most of us need to be a little less nice to get ahead in reality, but that's just an anecdote I guess, what it really was about was simply that Superman didn't really reflect reality, and he's not supposed to, he's an icon because he actually is BETTER than any of us can be, and sure it's noble to strive to be like Superman, but unless you're also a 10/10 chad it's not gonna get you far, this is why the "flawed hero", often in the form of being some type of asshole whether just having attitude or angst or whatever, became more popular, because it's a lot more like how most people are, jaded and cynical to a degree

Ask yourself this, with characters from even longer ago, why do most people prefer Bugs Bunny over Mickey Mouse? Same reason, neither are bad guys, but Bugs isn't naive, he's a smart ass and a bit of a trouble maker

>>149452891 (OP)
Why so ESL and reddit?

>>149454985
It's because Superman sets the standard of being a genuine force of good and acting the part that Sonic falls short of being a complete pinnacle of hope, plus Sonics still a kid, he still has more to learn, its the adults who act like Sonic who need this lesson. Aka Goku, Guy Gardner, Tony Stark, Dante, Yuri Powell etc

>>149457734
sonic hasn't been the same in serious situations either. adventure 1 and anime movie sonic were reactionary; not alot of thought would come from them, instead just blurting something out that matches their emotional state. adventure 2 and onward sonic has been a preachy guy leaning more into being heroic role model type, also he's also been way more eager to do stuff. crass lazy bum sonic was a flash in the pan.

>>149452891 (OP)
Are we actually talking about Superman now?

The counterculture has oscillated between sincerity and sarcastic dismissal of others for several decades now.

>>149461708
examples? i'm pretty sure sarcasm came in the 90's and never went away

>>149460260
Superman is the American boyscout aw shucks main protagonist template. Others are edgy and unconventional takes on superman.

>>149461708
And this movie is supposed to be a come back for the former?

>>149453073
You also have to note that Sonic was born in the 90s
The 90s were all about attitude. Through even then, you can see how 'attitude' and 'cool' change between time periods and regions.

>>149457535
yeah?

>>149452891 (OP)
I love Mario but yeah people shit on him for being nice and humble because they think it's bland, but at this point it's less of the norm to have a genuinely nice person instead of having some attitude

>>149452891 (OP)
>Superman to me is more awesome than Batman, Dante and Sonic to me,

>>149466004
Mario doesn't have a personality, when he did it was the 80s - early 90s when he was depicted as a gruff, roughneck working class Italian from NYC

Soon as Mario 64, he was just bing bing wahoo, and nothing more or less, just a guy with a Mickey Mouse voice because Mario games have no narrative or dialogue or even expressive character moments beyond "he's hurt so he looks hurt" etc