Thread 149497756

New Batman Adventures gets banished to the phantom zone and never spoken of again

Second looks too much like Clark

>>149497773
But TNBA looks so smooth

>>149497792
looks like shit (except Scarecrow)

>>149497756 (OP)
I think it's weird how Bruce's eyes kept changing
>Solid black (BTAS)
>Pure blue, no pupils (TNBA)
>Blue with pupils (Beyond)
>Back to solid black (JL/JLU)

>>149497756 (OP)
Right is pretty much Batman without the pointy ears, which is pretty much what Bruce is in TNBA. .

>>149497756 (OP)
Remember when Bruce's disguise in TNBA was wearing a pencil mustache while still wearing his regular clothes?

>>149497756 (OP)
Part of me wishes they stuck to the BTAS aesthetic throughout the DCAU but I'm not sure how shows like Static Shock or Batman Beyond would look.

>>149498057
I really like this Brainiac.

>>149497756 (OP)
TNBA is underrated. In terms of episode quality it might be the single best season of DCAU Batman. Sometimes I think people forget how many clunkers BTAS has throughout its run.

Also Dick as Nightwing was cool.

>>149498601
Its one of the most consistently well animated seasons of DCAU as well. I also like the specific color palette although I get how the sheer amount of red could drive people nuts.

>>149497756 (OP)
>Left or right
Even with some mid episodes, I'm still picking left.

>>149498601
I prefer the tone of BTAS

>>149498745
I have a fair amount of sympathy for Bruce Timm, when he talks about how the major reason for the style shift was he got really tired of how shitty the animation got in some episodes of BTAS and he wanted to do something about it.

>>149497773
it has a few good designs but Bruce was absolutely not one of them

>>149498601
>Sometimes I think people forget how many clunkers BTAS has throughout its run.
TNBA had lower lows, and a far greater percentage of them. Bad BTAS episodes are the exception, whereas for TNBA is was like 50/50.

>>149498086
Zod is just Ra's

>>149497817
nah scarecrow's BTAS design is better

>>149499155
This. Scarecrow is supposed to look unassuming until his fear toxins kick in. Making him look like a zombie out the gate misses the point.

>>149499148
And it turns out the tie-in comic featured Zod for a Supergirl-focused story.

>>149497773
The designs of the ladies were way better though. TNBA and Superman TAS was Timm at his most coomer.

>>149497773
We would never get batman: vengeance then

>>149499155
>>149499194
>>149497773
No way, Scarecrow was never scary at all in BTAS. His episodes sucked and so did he. TNBA made him way better, no matter what he's "supposed" to look like.

>>149499295
Ivy is so hot with the chalk white skin. Her best look.

>>149499295
Lois was a fucking smoke show.

>>149497756 (OP)
The right looks like a bad bootleg Chinese knock-off of the left.

>>149499295
Something Unlimited mogs both of them

>>149497756 (OP)
Why does TNBA look so soulless?

>>149499787
The soul is stored in the forehead

>>149499720
>Coming off Batman with Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, and Batgirl
>Timm somehow makes Lois Lane sexier than all of them
how the fuck did he do it?

>>149499787
Lower budget.

>>149499295
>The designs of the ladies were way better though.

Not really. Every woman in TNBA has the exact same 14-year old nymphet body.

>>149497756 (OP)
Isn't BTAS basically an anime since they got TMS to do the first season?

They're just two people at different stages of their lives. BTAS Bruce has hope and friends and a family. TNBA has lost people and chances, seen people he had sympathy fuck up over and over again without remorse, had his trust betrayed, seen Gotham get worse despite breaking his body every night to fix it.

>>149498842
It's frustrating to have a conversation about animation with people online because it becomes apparent that for many people "animation" just means how something is drawn and the character designs.

>>149499610
I swear we had this exact thread like a day ago.

>>149499976
Nah, they only worked on 6 out of the 85 episodes. Although there were other episodes that were done by other Japanese studios.

>>149499977
I really do enjoy DCAU Bruce's arc. It makes you feel bad for him, but at the same time, it makes total sense. We all love the joke that Gotham is perennially a shithole, but the persistent ability of the city to just not get better would absolutely wear him down and make him bitter and cynical.

Of course this all culminates in some of his shitty behavior, like sleeping with Barbara and neglecting both Tim and Dick, which drives everybody away from him until he's the lonely old man sitting in a mansion, waiting to die, that we meet at the start of Beyond.

And then Terry basically brings him back to life, and proves that there IS still good in Gotham, and the city's not beyond saving.

It's neat. I like it. I also really like how the two characters in the DCAU with great big, sweeping arcs are Bruce and Clark. That feels pretty fitting.

>>149499155
This. Scarecrow isn't supposed to look scary, that's what the fear toxin is for.

>>149499906
STAS Lois is carried by Dana Delany.

>>149497817
>>149499398
>Praising TNBA Scarecrow design
>It's just Undertake with a rope around the neck
BRAVO!

>>149499989
We did have a thread about the DCAU/BTAS/TNBA a few days ago. I was there. I was in it. In that thread I ALSO said I find TNBA Ivy sexy as hell.

Because it's true, and true things should be proclaimed at all available opportunities.

>>149499295
Nah, he fucked most of them so bad

>>149499746
This nigga thinks Spider-Man Unlimited is better

>>149499998
>TNBA one

>>149499998
>>149500075
These two redesigns, in particular, are a direct result of Timm always seething that he was bound by an approximation of the Burton movies' use of both characters. BTAS Penguin looks like Danny Devito, and BTAS Catwoman looks like Michelle Pfeiffer. Timm never enjoyed this because that's not really what the characters were in the show proper.

When TNBA came around he had a chance to redesign both characters to be more in line with his preferred designs from the comics, so he did. He also switched Selina to having short black hair, just like her comics version.

>>149500113
>He also switched Selina to having short black hair, just like her comics version.
>Lois Lane but with short hair

>>149500135
Timm can only draw one woman but that's okay because it's really fucking sexy.

>>149499733
He does look a lil Chinese now that you mention it

>>149497792
Like your brain

>>149500075
Dot Warner looking tall.

>>149499976
Not how it works anon, and they didn't animate everything. A lot of TNBA was also handled by Japanese studios.

>>149500113
What I always found funny about this is that while Selina ditches the blonde hair, her TNBA looks like a simplified version of Returns Catwoman more than her BTAS version did.
I think the short hair in TNBA actually predates Selina having short hair in the comics for a bit, she had that buzzcut in Year One, but the short pixie hair started being a thing around'98 with NML

>>149500273
>A lot of TNBA was also handled by Japanese studios.
This scene seems to be animated by Japanese studios.

>>149500259
>A lot of TNBA was also handled by Japanese studios.
This scene seems to be animated by Japanese studios.

>>149499295
TNBA has top-tier Batgirl.

>>149500008
You can also read it as Bruce being self sabotaging. It's a pretty common dynamic to semi-intentionally push people away not just out of typical self destructive behavior, but out of a twisted sense of "freeing" them from the burden of you.

>>149497756 (OP)
Left is better not only in design but also the voice that Conroy used

>>149497756 (OP)
I prefer the real Bruce Wayne

>>149499295
>The designs of the ladies were way better though
Absolutely not, their bodies were hotter pre-TNBA

>>149500434
Wasn't it because Conroy admitted that using different voices for Bruce and Batman was too straining on his vocal cords?

>>149500075
This one was one of the worst downgrades. Is so different compared to the animated series, is almost insulting.
Scarecrow and penguin felt almost as radical.

>>149497756 (OP)
The New Adventures Batman was a fucking asshole for no good reason, BTAS Batman was kinder and more humane when it came to handling his rouges. Also the design was perfect for both Bruce and Batman

>>149500464
I don't know about that.

>>149500558
>The New Adventures Batman was a fucking asshole for no good reason, BTAS Batman was kinder and more humane when it came to handling his rouges
TNBA Bruce had to live with all those sympathetic rogues then committing crimes again and again and never reforming or getting worse. It's sad that Mad Hatter is such a lonely guy and ha no idea how to fix himself, but by the third time he's terrorizing the town with mind control devices, it's hard to feel bad no matter how mentally sick he is. He's causing trouble and hurting innocent people.
It's scarily similar to what happens to a lot of cops where they end up jaded because repeat offenders are so prominent.

>>149500095
no I mean Something Unlimited

>>149500604
He's actively using brutal force on the ones that are mentally ill, iirc he didn't even deliver a single punch to someone like Two Face or Mad Hatter in the original

>>149500558
I guess all that Batgirl fucking made him miserable. Somehow.

>>149500604
>>149500699
Everything could be fixed if he rapes them, specially Joker, rape Joker, Batman

>>149500075
Jesus

>>149500075
It wouldn't be this bad if they didn't give her white slits for the eyes. Batgirl has a very similar design, but she looks million times better simply because you can see her eyes.

>>149500699
Because it's hard to keep feeling sympathy over Harvey, sick or not, if he keeps on hurting people and is clearly too far gone to ever fix.

>>149497756 (OP)
It's weird how he looks younger.

>>149500075
Absolutely disastrous

>>149500699
they usually ARE trying to kill him

>>149498601
The redesigns of the villains, particularly Joker and Riddler will always ruin these seasons for me.

Scarecrow was cool though.

I like how pic related was pretty much a midquel.

>>149502435
It also sucked.

Imagine if Mary Dahl made you break into a theme park with her, make her a large soda, and turn on the Ferris wheel for both of you to ride which ends up stopping right when you're both at the highest point and Mary starts to realize that maybe picking the large soda wasn't the best idea...

>>149502440
I'll kick your ass.

>>149502389
I don't know what they were thinking with Riddler. They didn't like having to make their designs for The Penguin and Catwoman based on the movies, but they deliberately redesigned The Riddler based on Batman Forever

>>149497773
TNBA has higher highs than BTAS

You're a buffoon and a cretin.

>>149502753
Riddler, IIRC, was based loosely off A Clockwork Orange. I can see how the jumpsuit looks like Forever, but he had a jumpsuit before the three piece suit in the comics, just with a belt.
Don't know where the baldness comes from though.

>>149497756 (OP)
The old seasons had that old WB animation feel even if the motion was spotty at times.
Starting with TNBA it just looked like any other cartoon.

>>149502829
How sensitive you are over your shit taste

>>149500008
> his shitty behavior, like sleeping with Barbara

How dare two attractive adults have a consensual relationship

>>149502829
TNBA had the highest highs and the lowest lows IMO. It had some of the best episodes in the show, like Mad Love, Old Wounds, Sins of the Father, Growing Pains, Legends of the Dark Knight and my absolute favourite Over the Edge that is one of the ballsiest episode in kids' television IMO. As well as some of the worst - like Critters. But everybody who claims TNBA is shit is talking out of his ass.

>>149503019
Legends of the Dark Knight is the worst episode

>>149503051
It has Michael Ironside as Batman, it's a hit for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsJ1SWNy4vo
It's amazing that nobody ever asked Ironside to play Batman for real.

>>149502848
I thought I read they said his redesign was based on Jim Carrey in BF

>>149503051
I can't fathom having taste that bad, holy shit.

>>149502753
>>149502848
>>149503246
Not that it matters, they didn't give him any episodes anyway

>>149503194
>Michael Ironside

Literally who?

>>149502454
Nigger shut yo fucking mouth, if im gonna read the fetishistic ramblings from a retard here its not gonna be you

>>149503194
That is, awesome

>>149502829
This. People who hate on TNBA are just faggoty tourists who probably haven't watched either show since they were kids, and they just bash the revival because of the art style change.

But even the issue there is that they're likely just comparing screenshots of the best/TMS animated episodes of TAS. Part of the issue of TAS was that the character models were so detailed it was harder to maintain consistency. Most of the series doesn't look nearly as good as people like to remember.

>>149503288
you're literally a homo

>>149503288
Darkseid
>>149503194
Not getting him for the DKR DTVs was a mistake, Weller didn't give a shit and was cast just for being Robocop. But he hasn't given a shit about genre roles since the 80's(though I hear the Robocop game is good).

>>149503288
>DURRRR, ME ANON, ME NOT KNOW WHO PEOPLE ARE

The Bruce Wayne in BTAS had a personality. He was friendly and seemed to be a real man of the people. He could act a bit clumsy, but was also a Chad. He did charity work, rubbed shoulders with celebrities like the Man-Wolf dude, and commanded instant respect.

TNBA version was TOO stoic in appearance. Never made a slip-up like TAS Bruce did when he was introduced in Robin's flashback by the circus and dropped his popcorn. TNBA was too much of a mask. TAS persona of Bruce was more natural.

>>149503362
>Darkseid
And Sam Fisher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUSmB7nKiQ8
>though I hear the Robocop game is good
It's actually very fun and comfy especially if you like the movies. Very reminiscent of DX: Human Revolution, but you play as a walking fridge. But it is a budget title and you can see that from time to time. But Robocop fining people for bad parking never gets old.

>>149503301
Okay but you kinda did

>>149502867
Barbara was the girlfriend of his surrogate son. That's a SERIOUS violation of the bro code or in this case, the dad code.

I did like how Bruce and Dick could butt heads in TAS like Robin's Reckoning. And I sorta get Dick being frustrated with Bruce after graduating from college like being ruthless to that guy he interrogated in front of the guy's family. But then again, Bruce actually has his compassionate side like giving that former criminal an honest job at Wayne Enterprises.

People forget that without Bruce Wayne's charities and jobs, Gotham would be uber-fucked.

But Bruce letting Barbara in on the Bat secret was a major mistake. He never should've done that.

>>149497756 (OP)
Old definitely

>>149500008
I really feel bad for DCAU Bruce. Remember in Justice League/Unlimited, there are moments where he's actually SMILING and having a good time...then you remember that Tim being kidnapped and brainwashed by the Joker isn't that far off from JLU's final episode.

And by the beginning of Batman Beyond, what do we see? A Bruce Wayne in his 50s still battling crime. He has a major heart condition and was forced to use a gun; something he would never do in the past. He has no friends. Alfred is dead. Dick and Tim probably never call him. All he has is a big empty mansion.

>>149503555
It's sad only if you skip from BTAS to BB, but watching TNBA it's little wonder he ended up that way and basically deserved it

>>149503555
I always saw Beyond as Bruce's bad ending.

>>149503527
>But Bruce letting Barbara in on the Bat secret was a major mistake.
Didn't Barbara figure it out on her own at one point anyway?

>>149503564
I agree which is why I have mixed feelings of TNBA. That was when Bruce got more edgier. Though it did give us The World's Finest team-up and would usher in Justice League because of that crossover.

I also HATED that episode where Clayface returned in TNBA. His sendoff in Mudslide was tragic as fuck and Timm-Dini seemed to remember than when he was brought back in Justice League.

>>149503573
It truly is. I always envisioned Bruce to be a stern yet fair mentor to a new generation of heroes. Gotham is far from perfect, but people can walk in the streets relatively safe and there's no need for masked vigilantes.

While Gotham in the Beyond era is obviously much more cleaner and a bustling tech hub, the crime is more corporate and organized crime via designer drugs and other stuff than muggings and other shit. So he did win a victory in the end, but at the cost of everything for himself.

>>149503617
No. Bruce showed her the cave.

>>149503527
Isn't it implied in the shows that that was a mistake? Like the writers knew Bruce was fucking up and that was the point.

>>149503527
>Barbara was the girlfriend of his surrogate son.

They broke up

> a SERIOUS violation of the bro code or in this case, the dad code.

No such thing. Their body, their choice.

>>149497756 (OP)
BTAS' Batman wasn't just a brooding machine, and he wasn't tormented 24/7 by the memory of his parents. Sure, there are episodes where that's the main focus, but it's usually triggered by something in the first act. It's even more obvious when he's Bruce Wayne, you honestly believe he enjoys his public persona, and it's not just an act. As Batman, he could smile, even laugh, and he had no problem working with others to achieve his goals. For example, after Catwoman kisses him for the first time, he lets out a playful whistle.
i.e., Batman was allowed to be a fun character.

TNBA's Batman, on the other hand, is turned into a full-on brooding machine. He never smiles, never has a moment of peace, and isn't allowed to be funny in any way. You can tell he'd rather kick everyone out of the Bat-family just so he can keep brooding (which he eventually does, as seen in Batman Beyond). The best example is actually in the Superman: TAS crossover episode "Knight Time", when Tim and Superman watch a video message from a mind-controlled Bruce. The weirdest thing Tim notices is: "Have you ever seen him smile?" To which I can reply: yes, many, many times in BTAS.

Justice League and JLU reversed the damage a little, but deep down, he was still the same brooding TNBA Batman, which is the version they used for the Justice League stuff, unfortunately.

>>149503416
That was the point retard

BTAS is Bronze Age Batman (quite literally in some cases since some stories were directly lifted from that time) with Golden Age trappings
TNBA is the usual post-Crisis slop Batman who everyone is tired of

>>149503804
>TNBA's Batman, on the other hand, is turned into a full-on brooding machine. He never smiles, never has a moment of peace, and isn't allowed to be funny in any way.

Read the Gotham Adventure comics retard

>>149503804
>The best example is actually in the Superman: TAS crossover episode "Knight Time", when Tim and Superman watch a video message from a mind-controlled Bruce. The weirdest thing Tim notices is: "Have you ever seen him smile?" To which I can reply: yes, many, many times in BTAS.
Exactly

What caused that sudden shift in attitude? Is it the Sub-Zero movie which is technically canon seeing how TNBA mentions the Wayne Foundation helped Nora. You could definitely see glimpses of Bruce being a bit more hard-edged there.

Is it because in-universe, Bruce was getting frustrated that his efforts was like Sisyphus and the boulder? Or how some of his rogues like the Joker and especially his former friend Harvey kept committing heinous crimes? And he was teetering on the brink of stress and snapping? I used to work at a shit job that made him into a hateful jerk and I couldn't even properly focus on my grad studies (brain fog is a real thing even at age 27). So it's the only explanation I could come up with.

>>149503804
I liked "Injustice for All". Yeah, Justice League ep, I know, not the point. The point is, watching Batman smile the smuggest fucking grin ever after he defeated the Joker and pulled a fast one on Luthor was a sight for sore eyes.

>>149500075
>>149501432
True, or even just have her wear a full face mask

>>149500604
>>149503891
This was the writers "solving" a problem of their own creation. They knew they were writing a TV show, they knew they had a finite amount of episodes, TNBA was two years after the last episode of BTAS when STAS was already running and other shows were being planned. There's no reason why they couldn't have given Batman a few wins to prove his methods still worked, instead of being a complete broodlord.

>>149503804
Bruce's changes may have fit for the overall arc of the DCAU but I still don't and won't ever like it. On Leather Wings' scene where Batman takes a call as Bruce has always been one of my favorite bits and it could never be done later on

>>149503844
Why? And you better 2hh0m

>>149500113
>>149503919
>Timm never enjoyed this because that's not really what the characters were in the show proper.
And yet Catwoman's costume redesign made her look even closer to Returns'.
Who gets this guy?

>>149497756 (OP)
Original all the way. Bruce in that feels more like an approachable sort, a nice fella who is as clumsy as he is smooth. You can trust him, but don't make him hold anything breakable. I'm also fond of his brown suit.
TNBA Bruce is just too damn smooth. He's suddenly a damn supermodel with piercing blue eyes. Kinda miffed that he dropped the lighter tones in his voice too.

>>149503928
Speaking of STAS, at least World's Finest gave us a good look of what a TNBA Batman/Bruce would have been with BTAS' characterization.
Which makes me dislike TNBA's Batman more.

>>149503928
Both Superman TAS and Batman TAS dealt with a major personal crisis that the respective hero faced.

In Superman TAS, the finale showed large portions of humanity distrusting Superman after being brainwashed by Darkseid. The fact that Superman was able to soldier on and regain the world's trust painstakingly so that by Justice League's premiere, it seems that he salvaged his reputation for the most part. But those missing years in-between Superman TAS and Justice League really makes you wonder at his willpower. Everywhere he went, he heard whispers about civilians mistrusting the "alien" whether he was Superman or as Clark Kent. It makes you wonder if his Clark Kent persona was affected like being more stressed out or did he realize he had to keep it cool and not let people figure out something was wrong with mild-mannered Clark Kent?

For Batman to be a broodlord during much of TNBA, there was no cataclysmic event you could point to from the end of Batman TAS like Superman TAS' Legacy episode. And technically Superman has FAR more reasons to be more edgy because the DCAU laid the seeds for the Cadmus conflict very early in Superman TAS like Lois visiting an alternate future where Superman and Luthor become fascist overlords or how Emil distrusted Superman (even I realized that was going to be a problem way before Justice League was ever made).

With Superman TAS, there were all these occurrences and events that slowly built up to the shitstorm that ensued in Legacy and then in the Cadmus Arc of Justice League. But Batman TAS is harder to pinpoint.

>>149504009
World's Finest was absolute kino. They even had Ghibli animating a bunch of it.

>>149504024
I could have bought that after Dick left Bruce took Jason Todd under his wing until he got killed by the joker, and that could explain why Bruce became such a jerk

>>149499998
His plastic surgeon does damn good work.

>>149504024
>or how Emil distrusted Superman
Why did the staff hate his character so much anyway?

>>149503974
Ever see Mask of the Phantasm? I liked how Bruce experimenting in his early years as a vigilante was flawed and how he couldn't strike fear. Like remember his first disguise and nobody really took a dude with a generic ski mask and gadgets seriously?

TAS Batman is someone whom you would never suspect as a vigilante. He's too normal. TNBA Bruce is far more cold and distant. You can tell there's something up with him.

>>149504041
So kino that it’s the gold standard when writing a first meeting between the two. Initial distrust, mutually discovering each other’s secret ID’s, a grand teamup against a combined threat, and an ending with the World’s Finest having mutual respect for each other and the beginnings of a friendship. Honestly, reading their first meeting Post Crisis left me pretty disappointed in comparison.

>>149504065
Yes. Had Jason Todd existed in the DCAU back then, it would've made more sense. I did enjoy Under the Red Hood a lot.

>>149504084
Did they? I always saw Emil betraying Superman to being a very human trait.

Before being threatened and manhandled by Superman, Emil absolutely trusted Kal-El. But there were probably seeds of doubt like Lois telling Emil and Superman about the alternate future where Superman was a dictator or encountering Jax-Ur and Mala; those 2 rogue Kryptonians. The idea definitely lurked in his mind but he always shelved it away because Superman was this paragon of virtue...until the day he seized Hamilton by the neck and scared him. And this was a Superman who WASN'T brainwashed.

>>149498057
I like the fleisher look.

>>149504129
NTA, but the crew absolutely hated Emil. When writing the episode where Darkseid kills Turpin, Emil’s name was put forward as a possible casualty. But then they decided that nobody would care if he died. And no, I have no idea why they hated him so much.

>>149497756 (OP)
I will never forgive how they ruined Joker in TNBA

>>149504155
Yeah seriously, it's not like he was annoying or anything. He was altogether helpful and respectable. How can a writer harbour deep hatred for a character that they wrote themselves?!

>>149504155
>>149504219
Is this a thing that actually exists with evidence behind it, or is it just fans making shit up again?

>>149504219
Maybe Bruce Timm just hates university professors.

>>149503951
nta, but the Batman adventures comics are great. Has one of the best iterations of the Joe Chill story too. Keeps the idea from Bill Finger's original that Chill is haunted by killing the Waynes, with a better resolution than the original story.

>>149504024
>For Batman to be a broodlord during much of TNBA, there was no cataclysmic event you could point to from the end of Batman TAS like Superman TAS' Legacy episode.
It was Dick walking out. Batman gets darker with no Robin. It's the way of things.

>>149504412
I could buy that but the continuity when that happened and brooding Bruce is a bit off.

>>149504412
This made sense in the comics when Jason died because it was a personal failing that Bruce was haunted over. It doesn't make sense in the cartoons because there was no natural transition between BTAS and TNBA, and Dick claims Bruce changed as his reason for leaving so that wasn't the cause.

>>149503891
I didn't like it, but it made some sense. As other people pointed out, a lot of police officers start to get hard and cynical soldering on day after day. imagine dealing with all the shit Bruce did.

>>149504469
>>149504523
Dick claims Bruce's methods were getting more extreme and we see it in Old wounds, albeit he's more merciful than Dick thinks when we see he gave the criminal he was harsh on a job.
Bruce was still clearly hurt with Dick leaving though.It may not have been as severe as Jason's death, but he did take it to heart.

>>149498896
Apart from Scarecrow and Ivy what designs were good?

>>149503928
>They knew they were writing a TV show, they knew they had a finite amount of episodes, TNBA was two years after the last episode of BTAS when STAS was already running and other shows were being planned. There's no reason why they couldn't have given Batman a few wins to prove his methods still worked, instead of being a complete broodlord.
This was also a TV show for kids, funded a toy company and commercials and made to sell merch, made with the knowledge many episodes would be out of order. There was no way most of the villains, especially the iconic ones,were ever going to reform. They weren't meant for that.

>>149497756 (OP)
honestly they should be considered two separate incarnations with BTAS not being part of the DCAU desu

>>149504396
I preferred the way it got resolved in Three Jokers.

>>149503019
>no The Creeper

>>149504589
Batgirl, Robin, and Nightwing are all great(mullet aside for Nightwing). The Neal adams Robin costume is great, but the TNBA one might be even better. Batgirl in black is cooler, Nightwing adapts the then-new comic costume but adds a bird logo which makes sense.
Penguin is fine, more classic
Band and Mad Hatter look creepier, and I think that work, especially for Hatter past his first episode.
Talia, R'as and Harley didn't feel too different, besides color/shading differences.

>>149504624
I did like Ventrikoquist reforming

>>149504357
Wtf

>>149504256
>>149504357
nta, but the source should be Modern Masters Bruce Timm.

>>149504723
>Justice Lords episode
>All the heat vision lobotomized villains in the Lords’ Arkham
>Ventriloquist is there with holes in his head
>So is Scarface
>Lord Superman heat visioned a puppet
Kek

>>149504867
I thought the holes were only in the puppet's head

>>149504723
Ventriloquist also didn't get a toy until Hasbo was about to lose the license years after TNBA ended and released a mold they probably sat on for years because "toys of old guys don't sell well" according to a Hasbro employee. So they probably didn't care what they did with him

>>149504658
The only plot-threads that carried over between shows were Clayface and Mr. Freeze. TNBA was pretty much a soft reboot to better match up with Superman TAS.

>>149504904
You forgot Baby Doll

>>149504935
Her TNBA episode pretty much ignores her previous TAS appearance and changes her from a child actor who couldn't let go of her glory days to a midget sociopath who'll gladly nuke Gotham over being cheated on by Killer Croc.

>>149504624
Toy sales run (or at least ran) on fresh ideas, and reforming a villain into a hero would be a fresh idea. You think kids wouldn't want Hero Action Mr. Freeze, fighting side by side with Batman? Plus more heroes means room for more villains which means more toys.

>>149504974
Imagine if Baby Doll got a third episode that really emphasized the "baby" part of her moniker, if you know what I mean

>>149500075
Such a downgrade compared to BTAS.

>>149504688
Creeper was just what Freakazoid would have been had Timm not been veto'd by Spielberg.

>>149504979
...you weren't around for the kenner Batman line as a kid, were you?Those lines were dominated by Batman repaints(and sold really well)

>>149505153
Then there's no reason to worry about toy sales being lower if they reform a villain in one cartoon.

>>149503270
The tie-in comic gave Riddler back his old TAS outfit and pretty much wrapped up his character by having him finally admit to Batman that he's messed up in the head and needs help.

>>149505426
didn't he win in beyond and then died

>>149505426
I thought the comic was cancelled while he was still in a coma

>>149497756 (OP)
Thoughts on Gotham girls? I really enjoy it and Harley was super cute in it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrwRmtRN0QQ&ab_channel=ToughGamingGuy

Thoughts on Gotham girls? I really enjoy it and Harley was super cute in it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrwRmtRN0QQ&ab_channel=ToughGamingGuy [Embed]

>>149506506
I never liked the whole Gotham Sirens thing in the comics or cartoons. Selena was enemies with the other two for the longest while, then it was "gal pal time tee hee"

>>149506559
well it's not like Selena is really pals with them in GG, it's mainly just Harley and Ivy who hang out together while Selena sometimes works with them when she has to

This is from a late 90s comic.

>>149498794
This, it was too dark

>>149506590
always a bit odd she wore such deep ruby red lipstick as a teenager at all times.

very "teen-slut" of her.

>>149506590
I mean she's right.

Riddler had invented the Iphone 2 decades early.

>>149500440
He's not real, though. He's just a tomato.

>>149506590
BABS' EYES ARE BABY BLUE
REEEEEEEE

>>149507469
the entire point of that show is that things are as real as they are perceived to be.

>>149507518
>having this little media literacy

>>149507527
then do break it down for me, I was almost completely convinced I knew the thematics and point of the fucking show.

he literally gives a big ole Speech to the God-Blonde as she's erasing the world she created about how she has to live as a human being, even if the World and everything in it is just her own creation.

>>149499998
Cobblepot looks better as a gremlin, the other guy looks like a Monopoly man rip off

>>149499194
>Scarecrow is supposed to look unassuming until his fear toxins kick in.
Have you ever read any comics with Scarecrow from before fear toxin was introduced?

>>149497756 (OP)
its simple, Right is made by the same people who made Akira, Left is made by the same people who made The Big O

>>149503362
>>149503479
Dude, we lost Adam West as DKR Bruce, and all because miller admitted that DKR is the "future" of 66 and classic batman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ211GBe6e0

>>149498601
>Also Dick as Nightwing was cool.

Yeah, but he only had a leading role in three episodes.

>>149497773
Mad Love and Over the Edge are too good for me to agree with this.

>>149508301
Mad Love is so fucking great, there are so many things about it that are awesome.

One of my favorites is the fact that, early in the episode, when Joker is going over his Batman-killing plots and schemes, Harley says, "Why don't you just shoot him?". This prompts Joker to go on a rant to her about how the death of Batman has to be a big production and a huge thematic triumph for the Joker and his ideology.

Then, at the end of the episode, after Harley has ALMOST killed Batman, he's chained up on a table, and Joker, about to leave him alone, reconsiders, and prepares to... just shoot him. Exactly what Harley had proposed, and he had ridiculed, earlier in the very same episode. He's just a hypocrite about it all.

It's a really great episode about how awful and shitty the Joker is, in addition to being a tragic episode about Harley.

>>149509217
Eh, it kinda flubbed the ending from the original comic where broken and bitter Harley is asked by her old boss at Arkham how it felt to throw everything away for love and got nothing back.
>(sees Joker's "Get Well Soon" rose next to her) "It felt like a kiss..."

>>149507916
I like both designs

>>149509804
It IS really funny how lame the Matches Malone disguise is in TNBA. It's more elaborate, and more of an actual disguise, in BTAS.

>>149507418
>always a bit odd she wore such deep ruby red lipstick as a teenager at all times.
She's like 23+ by the time of TNBA. She graduated college like 3 years prior. She might've skipped some grades, but assuming she's Dick's age or older she's no teenager anymore, she has a job and an apartment.

>>149500690
Lol this nigga thinks Batman Unlimited is better

>>149500273
Lol that's pretty funny, gets rid of the celebrity hair but makes the costume a lot closer, even has the pale face

Is it ever established how long into Bruce's career as Batman the first episode of BTAS is?

Like, how long has he been Batman by the start of "On Leather Wings"? The Joker and the Penguin are established, but every other classic Rogue gets an intro episode. Harvey's also not Two-Face yet and becomes him over the course of the first season.

Yet clearly it's not right at the very beginning, because in "Robin's Reckoning" we see flashbacks to Batman in a more Year One-type suit, wiith a more primitive belt and no yellow oval around the bat symbol.

>>149510177
I always assumed 5-10 years

>>149502829
>TNBA has higher highs than BTAS

lol no

lmao even

>>149502800
At least post the graphic novel panel instead of this ugly crap.

>>149502435
>Hope is death

>>149510257
Hot take: the episode is better than the comic. The comic meanders too much. The episode boils the story down to its essential elements and tells a tighter story.

What was with the sheer amount of transformation episodes? I swear someone had a fetish for it.

>>149510282
Hello twitter

>>149510282
I love how there's a fucking werewolf episode that has some totally bullshit "scientific" explanation behind it.

>>149498023
You're talking about a universe were superman puts on glasses and no one notices he's Clark

>>149500604
You're filling in the blanks for the creators here. There's no story reason for why Bruce/Bats is 2-dimensional, they "flattened" all of the characters' personalities because execs complained about older episodes not being kiddy enough. Kiddies can't handle fully-fleshed out characters, apparently.

>>149510243
I will never not be surprised that TNBA has a defense force. There's one for literally everything.

>>149510177
3-5 years I'd guess

>>149497756 (OP)
Original is best, but the revised version no longer has to cheat his nose. the scene in World's Finest where Superman x-rays through the Batmask would have been impossible in BTAS style.

I also prefer his vocal performance back when his face looked like that, but I guess somebody in charge told Kevin to stop that?

>>149498057
They can have BTAS aesthetic without being so visually retro, even BTAS wasn't as retro as this.

>>149510775
>I guess somebody in charge told Kevin to stop that?

Yes

>>149504082
he got reverse-spliced
>>149500008
seriously. Beyond's future is so subtly dystopian, I didn't even notice as a kid (and keep in mind I was a kid who was like "oh they blew up the twin towers? why didn't they just fire their rooftop missiles? anyway put pokemon back on" but when you watch again.. it's both terrifying and kind of hilarious, since 'creds' seem to be something that physically exists on cards, so when you rob a bank you steal the cards.. not just hacking the numbers in your account to go higher.

>>149507641
Maybe this is just my "i went through literature classes in school and recognized they are bullshit" but I didn't think there WAS a meaning. it was just pretentiousness trying to build to something. A rarity in anime, to be sure, but in fairness it DOES have a western aesthetic. Not saying it was deliberate parody of lore stuff, but

>>149500464
better hope not, since Bruce's voice was his voice.

>>149503416
But wasn't that personality completely manufactured?
When he talked to Alfred or Dick, as himself, in the cave, he had the Batman voice. that Bruce persona was a mask.
>>149503527
it never happened. anyone who thinks Babs is telling the truth is as delusional as she is.

>>149510802
seems an odd choice, but at the same time, the way he's being written, it... works.. also we get to see very little 'regular Bruce' in TNBA. only one I can think of is Cold Comfort and uhh the one where he gets a plant waifu. Boy, if he'd used the old Bruce voice in that episode, that... would have added an interesting layer.

>>149497756 (OP)
I sorta missed when Conroy had two separate voices between Batman and Bruce

>>149510310
Has Timm or anyone else mentioned execs wanting the characters personalities being simplified for kids? Because I've read a lot of interviews from them, have been following Timm's posts for 20+ years on Toonzone(or "anime superhero", now), and while they definitely had to deal with some mandates and executive decisions, I don't think they've ever mentioned having to simplify his personality as part of it. And Timm is pretty open and transparent.

>>149510775
>I also prefer his vocal performance back when his face looked like that, but I guess somebody in charge told Kevin to stop that?

The thing to understand is the earlier seasons were made more for an adult audience. Yes, it was still meant to be a child-friendly show, but the tone and the writing were made more with adults in mind. With the later season on WB, they were told to tone it down for kids. Executives had complained that the earlier show was too dark and that their #1 priority should be selling Kenner action figures. That meant less character-focused episodes, less detail in the art, no more of that film noir feel, less effort in the soundtrack, less brooding, less psychological stuff, and less Twilight Zone-ish irony. And more Robin, Batgirl, and lots and lots of action for the kiddies.

>>149510989
Source on this?

>>149510978
I remember reading in an article (It might have been Wild Cartoon Kingdom) that there were particular episodes of BTAS that executives hated. Notably, "Harley & Ivy", "The Man Who Killed Batman", and "A Bullet for Bullock" (the latter was delayed for a whole year because they didn't want to air it). They really, really, really hated episodes that didn't focus strictly on Batman being Batman and they really hated episodes focused on villains and their twisted psychology. And they wanted Robin in every episode. So basically, there was no need for Bruce Wayne's alter-ego anymore if they weren't doing stories like that anymore.

>>149510775
To me it felt like more and more Bruce was hardening, becoming sharper. He was still very compassionate, but tragedies, deaths and defeats were piling up on him and so he became less joyful and it was harder for him to keep on the Bruce Wayne mask. Real life pressures aside, that's how I felt about it.

>>149511017
Sorry for not answering because I have been going through old magazines looking for the source and have come up empty so far. I discarded a lot of my old Wizards over the years and I suspect it might have come from there.

>>149511066
I think you may be confusing TNBA with the Adventures of Batman and Robin series.
TNBA also had execs request Batgirl and Robin as regulars, but a lot of the rest seems more like assumptions that the same stipulations extended to TNBA, where they'd deal with a different network execs due to the channel shift.
Especially saying the art style change was a mandate, when Timm has said he wanted it himself due to preferring the consistent look of STAS

>>149511356
>Timm has said he wanted it himself due to preferring the consistent look of STAS
can you blame him when some of the btas episodes looked like weird jello

>>149511066
I actually think Dick is done really well in the DCAU. Or, at least, better than he could have been done. For all the mandates about including him in the show, I think they did a good job.

It's also ironic to me that the execs insisted on him being in the show for "kid appeal," yet the storytelling that centers around Dick includes some of the most adult and serious moments in the series.

I did come across this page from a WCK issue that mentions how the network hated "Harley and Ivy", though it doesn't mention specifically why. The internet rumor was that they didn't like the lesbian overtones, but I remember specifically that it was because of the lack of Batman in the episode. The internet states that this episode was delayed from airing because of how much they disliked it, but that isn't true, it aired in early 1993 alongside a bunch of other new episodes. The episode that was delayed was "Bullet for Bullock". I remember that specifically.

>>149511384
the thing is, most casual viewers do not notice this. They just know BTAS designs have more lines and detail and that makes it better animation to them.

>>149511393
Thank the writers for that. They wanted Robin there for kid-appeal, but they made the Robin focused episodes some of the best-written episodes of the series with some of the best pathos in the whole show. The same thing happened with Batman Beyond, a show that was forced into existence by an executive who insisted they turn Batman into a child because children will only watch child characters, or something ridiculous like that. And those same writers turned that into an amazing show.

>>149511393
To be fair, Timm and Dini were trying their damned hardest to move Robin past the "Golly gee whiz, holy whatever, Batman!" days of Burt Ward since that was what most audiences remembered best from the character.

>>149497756 (OP)
I associate Right with the worst of the DCAU. Batwank kicked into overdrive once he got that redesign

>>149511356
Nah, these were all episodes of the original Batman show, from the original FOX era. You are right that they had to deal with different sets of executives and each network had their own very strict rules and regulations (though FOX's got more and more strict as the show went on, hence why we got "The Adventures of Batman and Robin". The art style change was for two reasons, 1) to match the Superman art style and 2) because Timm was unsatisfied with a lot of the animation from the previous series due to some overseas studios struggling with the more detailed character models. He sort of went off the deepened with his overly-simplistic designs since his days working on MOTU and Ghostbusters.

>>149511612
I actually think Justice League and JLU are a happy medium. They're not BTAS, but you can tell in them he's pulled back from the extremes of TNBA and STAS.

>>149504688
what the fuck this is a real character and not somebody Waid made up for Shazam?

>>149511948
created y Steve Ditko of Spider-man fame, no less

>>149507641
Okay, let me break it down for you.
>>149500440
Said "I prefer the real Bruce Wayne"
And to that I responded "He's not real, though. He's just a tomato." With the joke being that he can't be the 'real Bruce Wayne' because he's an artificial human.

>>149510837
Season 1 was made up bullshit. Season 2 was supposedly CN asking them to run with the original bullshit ending and explain it and largely failing.

>>149512762
The real answer is that there never was supposed to be an explanation. It was all setup for the world, something that hangs over their heads but can't actually be solved because it's beyond them.

>>149504688
me on the right

>>149512878
I love how the Joker couldn't fucking stand him. The DCAU was always really good about Joker biting off more than he could chew and it coming back to thwack him.

>>149502454
Imagine if she wore her Baby Doll outfit and said "Ano-o-o-on! I need to go-o-o-o-o!" in her Baby Doll voice

>>149504890
Yeah, it was just Scarface. Honestly the most humane thing Lord Superman ever did.

>>149497756 (OP)
I've grown exhausted with Bruce Timm's style, so I've gotta go with left

>>149511457
The same thing happened with Batgirl actually. The execs wanted a "girl appeal" character for TNBA that's marketable enough to sell toys and Batgirl was a natural pick. But then it turned out Timm and Dini actually really liked Barbara Gordon, so they went an extra mile and not only made her a very likeable character, they also gave made her a focus of some of the best episodes in TNBA.