Thread 150872118

Oh

Because the Absolute line is eating their lunch.

>>150872118 (OP)
Sounds like Tom Brevoort had another hissy fit.

>>150872149
When will that shitter leave the company

>>150872169
Who knows? But it looks like they'll kowtow to the big baby everytime he shits himself over everything not fitting his manifestos.

>>150872118 (OP)
Why does Hickman keep getting fucked?
>Had a plan for Krakoa but the writers on the other books created a coup against his plans for the line, leading to the situation going on too long.
And now this.

The writer who was the only sales draw for this universe is surprised that it's ending now that he's leaving? Deniz Camp doesn't move numbers.

>>150872118 (OP)
>If you wanted OMD undone, you should have bought more copies of Renew Your Vows, the book I wrote
>What's that? You're all buying someone else's book about married Peter, and it's outselling the main 616 book?
>STOP THE COUNT SHUT IT DOWN RED ALERT RED ALERT SAVE US POLAND

>>150872214
He's not getting fucked. He only wanted to write 24 issues of Spider-Man and then move on entirely.

What is it that makes Marvel so incompetent anyways?

>>150872327
Bad Quesada-era hires that should have been shown the door alongside Alonso.

Since OP didn't bother to post the text of the article
>“We were at one of those creative retreats and I was sitting next to him, we’re just talking, and he’s like, ‘Well, we’re finishing our stories, then you could do that.’ I said, ‘No, you’re done,’” Buckley remembered. “I was by myself with Jon, Jonathan’s looking at me, he goes, ‘What do you mean we’re done?’ I said, ‘We’re shutting it down.’ He goes, ‘Why are we shutting it down?’ I said, ‘It’s the end, right?’”

>Turns out that, even though Hickman had written a two-year-and-done storyline, he still didn’t think Marvel would cancel the line after it was done. Buckley, however, felt that it was important to do so.

>“There’s a lot of story being told here. You’ll be able to take this journey — take the beginning, the middle, and the end — and digest it for years to come and be able to pass it on to people and say, ‘This is the experiment, this type of storytelling, we’re allowed to do this,’” Buckley explained, arguing that allowing this incarnation of the Ultimate Universe to stand apart from anything before or after was important as a statement of creative intent.

>“We’re not going to do this with the Marvel Universe,” he clarified. “This is more about a group of creators getting together and saying, ‘This is what I see as a story, we want to have a beginning, a middle, and an end.’”
For once Marvel isn't running a story into the ground long after its lost its appeal and people are still complaining.

I'm not going to actually believe this until it's June and there's no books or news of books

>DC actually won for once
Kinda shocked desu

Anyway they’re gonna use the event to soft reboot Ultimate and they’ll relaunch everything at #1

at least with imperial nobody at Marvel gives a shit about the cosmic side of things so all it has to do is sell well to keep going and Hickman isn't even doing an ongoing for it plus they've got Abnett on board
even though I wish GOTG could have been the 2008 roster, Norrin to be alive, and for Bruce to deal with Sakaar stuff instead of Jennifer (even though it would have derailed PKJ's run, which I actually like)
>>150872310
he got fucked because he was doing a slow-burn story that he thought was getting passed onto another writer and now he's stuck with 24 issues of slow burn with endgame being the only payoff
>>150872356
>isn't running a story into the ground
you mean except for putting Maystorm and Richard into 616 and doing Secret Wars III involving 6160 to have synergy with the MCU doing Secret Wars?

>>150872356
The issue is that it's very obvious that the writer's didn't intend for it to be like that.

>>150872452
I would be really funny if DC managed to steal Peach Momoko over this and put her on Absolute.

>>150872118 (OP)
The line pays its creators a lot more than their regular contracts, and funnels sales out of their mainline books, they'll bring it back with shittier, cheaper writers and artists.

>>150872169
hopefully soon since Brevoort is most likely the individual that bought Bendis back to Marvel.

>>150872572
>bought Bendis back to Marvel.
Is there any legitimacy to that claim or is it just baseless scoops

>>150872572
Late Bendis is something I was happy to be rid of, unless he comes back reinvigorated and is turning out Jinxworld level stuff again I'm hesitant

>>150872403
>All DC was hoping for was solid sales, but honestly the book was approaching almost 200,000 copies that issue #13 this month. So for us, that sort of success is completely mind blowing but also just icing on the cake.

What did DC do right with Absolute that marvel didn’t do with the new Ultimate universe?

>>150872650

I think just a BleedingCool article

completely unfounded but i do think he and Slott are probably having a fight over who gets Superman/Spider-Man

>>150872718
The day Brevoort gets thrown out is the day a writer copies the Spider-Man: Minus One pitch

>>150872131
absolute universe wanted their nachos and have them

>>150872214
>Why does Hickman keep getting fucked?
Well, he keeps getting raped by editorial then raping the readers in revenge, but for some reason the readers always forget that and think he won't rape them with his next bomb.

>>150872714
>What did DC do right with Absolute
Nothing, it's pretty shit it's own special way

>>150872417
>he got fucked because he was doing a slow-burn story that he thought was getting passed onto another writer and now he's stuck with 24 issues of slow burn with endgame being the only payoff
"Reed gets out and they have their final battle" is the payoff, yes. They'd have to come up with something else to continue on from there and Hickman wasn't offering any new ideas fast enough apparently.
>>150872452
Which writers? Hickman said he was done after 24 issues. He was fine letting Camp write the conclusion. Momoko's translator said the same a few months ago which resulted in a ton of denial and cope.
>>150872650
Bendis is just doing a short thing for ASM #1000, he's never going back to doing an ongoing. There's no incentive in it for him.

>>150872810
Do they need to have big ideas from Hickman? The current Ultimate universe has enough new characters and settings that you could probably create several ongoings that will do well.

>>150872834
What's the conflict? Because right now, Reed and his Council are it. Once they're defeated, what then? Just going through the motions?

>>150872214
Krakoa sucked even under Hickman, probably better to just watch the ultimate universe die before being taken over by other creative teams.

Only one I’ll miss is momoko’s x-men, personally.

>>150872689
>unless he comes back reinvigorated
lol this is what you shills said to DCfags.

>>150872214
Hackman was also the problem when writing Krakoa

>>150872487
What Japanese DC character would Peach work on? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Doctor Light.

>>150874516
Super Young Team

>>150872118 (OP)
And nothing of value was lost

>>150874516
Only a fraction of the X-Men characters are Japanese originally. Could just pick whatever and put them in Japan if needed.

>>150874516
You say this like Ultimate X Men isn't just a bunch of OCs and reimagining characters as japanese school girls and boys.

They should just give her Absolute Teen Titans and leave her in her own little corner of the Absolute universe.

>>150872169
If Bendis is coming back to Marvel probably soon. I'd be surprised if Marvel wants to pay two huge contracts.

I expect him to go to DC a year or so from now to revamp the Titans considering there is a DCU movie in development.

>>150872487
Absolute is supposedly ending soon. Only reason DC have an Absolute line is to counter Marvel's Ultimate line. And with Marvel's Ultimate permanently ending soon, DC might just abandon the Absolute line.

>>150874768
>Absolute is supposedly ending soon
There is zero indication of this happening.

>>150874768
Snyder outright said they aren't ending Absolute any time soon in response to the Ultimate line ending lmao

>>150872214
>>150872118 (OP)
Hickman has had great ideas but he has consistently shown that he's awful at executing them.

Secret Wars kind of petered out.

Krakoa went to shit pretty much as soon as House/Powers of X concluded.

his Ultimate verse was shit from the getgo with a bunch of recycled characters and ideas and more doom wank.

Ultimate verse was a bad joke compared to Absolute.

>>150874831
>Hickman has had great ideas
Most of which are prefaced on established characters acting completely out of character. The dude has always been a hack. His only good comics are creator owned.

>>150874203
Only saving grace is that Hickman at least had an idea... potentially. Whereas the Krakoa thing was sincere after he left.

Q>>150872214
You forgot GODS. They priced the first issue at $10 and then cancelled it at eight issues (granted, it was pretty meh, but Marvel couldn't even keep a dream book going?).

I'm surprised he hasn't tried to make the jump to DC. It wouldn't surprise me if he writes Titans in 2027 or so with the DCU movie entering development.

>>150874866
The idea itself is awful though.

>what if mutants created an ethnostate and became everything they fought against while teaming up with the villains they said were wrong for all those years
Is an awful idea, full stop.

>>150872118 (OP)
>What do you mean super long from storytelling isn't tenable on a month to month sales contingent art medium!? I should be allowed to have 100 issues no questions asked!

It's like, on the one hand I want to feel bad for any creator who doesn't get to carry out their vision because of executive meddling but also, c'mon man.

>>150872327
Daddy Disney's money means they don't have to worry about bankruptcy anytime soon, so the shitters are not kicked out.

See? This is what happens when you don't rape the leadership at Marvel with AT LEAST A FUCKING CHAINSAW!!!

>>150874866
>Whereas the Krakoa thing was sincere after he left.

It took Hickman leaving that characters actually started to act like real people instead cultist drinking the koolaid because the plot just insisted everyone was in agreement and doing what the plot needed to happen.

>>150875142
???

Anon at no point in any of that krakoa bullshit were any of the characters acting “like real people”.

>>150872327
Honestly I think it's because some of the guys have been there forever. Think Brevoort, Cebulski, Lowe, Buckley or David Gabriel.

Keeping your employees for a long time is usually considered a positive due to institutional knowledge, but at this point it looks more like Marvel is stuck with outdated strategies and ideas.

DC is better unironically because Dan DiDio set DC editorial on fire when he was trying to push 5G before getting fired himself.

>>150875172
The way he claimed that Hickman didn't write real people while all the writers that replaced him did, makes me think it's someone from Marvel editorial

Like no one seriously believes post-Hickman was any better other than shills following some script

>>150875172
They absolutely were. You can cry shill all you want but when Hickman writes characters they’re just dialogue and plot points performing automatons who don’t feel like anything like their normal characterisation. That’s why it was driving readers insane how everyone was depicted as just agreeing what Krakoa was doing like it was a cult. Atop of all the egregious retcons you were expected to just accept.

Once Hickman left and Gillen was put in charge you finally started to properly see various characters actually act like they should, show disagreement and depict Krakoa doing bad things, causing internal conflict, villains still being villains with personal agendas motivating them, etc.

>>150872356
>For once Marvel isn't running a story into the ground long after its lost its appeal and people are still complaining.

The complaining is the point.

>>150875176
There's a small matter of them not being any good to begin with. Any actual talent is long gone while all we're left with is these hacks.

>>150872118 (OP)
Its kicking Mainline's ass too much.

>>150872118 (OP)
>we realized that the 5 Ultimate ongoings are the only ones outside of ASM, MM:SM, Avengers, Wolverine, Adjectiveless X-Men and Uncanny X-Men that have reached over 10 issues without a relaunch. For that reason, we're going to end them all

>>150874772
the part where they failed and became Darkseid's horsemen

>>150872118 (OP)
>Marvel Editorials would rather sabotage the good shit so that everyone eat their mediocre shit in mainline.
No, I won't read Space Spider-man or Spider-Norman or another story where Mete's life get ruined for the x times.
No, I won't read any Storm or Miles wank.
No, I won't read your 50 X-titles
I may read Nova and Moon Knight though.

>>150874866
>sincere
... no the FUCK it wasn't

>>150875259
>cry shill all you want
i absolutely will, shill. 99% of krakoa was shit, stop fucking lying.

>>150875142
>>150875259
Genuinely starting to believe the conspiracy that Marvel employees post here for damage control

>>150876313
LMAO you think I was a fan of Krakoa?

>>150872118 (OP)
>the book about Peter growing up and having domestic adventures with his wife and daughter is selling well
>Execs: KILL THE ULTIMATE UNIVERSE RIGHT NOW.
Amazing. Spectacular, even.

Nobody will ever hate Spider-Man more than Marvel editorial. Goddamn.

>>150876335
>not a fan
>still defending something that was bad

you're making yourself sound even worse. please stop.

>>150876350
>the book about Peter growing up and having domestic adventures with his wife and daughter

That’s not what the book really was about. Like a major aspect is actually about Harry and his wife Mysterio. Peter isn’t grown up, he’s a guy who has a middle aged crisis because he’s bored, gets powers, gets into trouble, runs away, blah blah.

>>150876330
I might sound like a schizo, but I think Marvel is really trying to sabotage Ultimate.
Like, you had Wolverine, whose writer was not long ago confirmed to have been selected by the editor and not by Hickman, who is killing the entire classic X-men cast. Like, I genuinely believe now that Ult.Wolv is an editorial plant that was made to deny the usage of Cyclops, Havok, Xavier, Beast etc in a future storyline that doesn't exist anyway. Then they attached Miles unto it like a parasite so that he can literally still stuff from it and put it into mainline.
And then you have storylines like Wanda and Pietro or the Guardian of the Galaxy that are obviously made to be long term story with a pay off at the end. So yeah, I think the "Ultimate line was always meant to end after two years" is bullshit.
I am going schizo now, but I am convinced that mainline editorials got uppity about Ultimate Titles running circles around their books, how it proves that a writer centric organisation was better instead of dumb mandates like the Spider-Mandate and shit like that.
Like, I am pissed off. Like yeah, Spider-hickman fell off, but stuff like Camp's Ultimates, Momoko's X-men and Hill's Black Panther were far more deliberate and soulful...

>>150876403(me)
Forgive me for all the typos, but the thought of Marvel shooting itself in the foot out of pride just infuriate me.

>>150876330
Easily observable, most alien reading posts around at any given time.

>>150874516
Absolute Dr Light could work, but DC could always retcon Raven to be Japanese and make a Raven and Starfire comic. Or maybe make a Zatanna comic, and make a Japanese OC, or pick an obscure character to turn Japanese, and make a comic about Zatanna and this OC fighting Yokai and shit.

WHERES THE COMICS, BUCKLEY?

>>150876413
Bro, nuUltimate was not what the people wanted. It's the wrong vibe, the wrong everything. A nuUltimate Spidey should be taking notes from manga, not other comics. Hickman doesn't have what Gen Z and after are clamoring for. He's too much of what came before, and that's not okay if you want Absolute numbers.

Dan Buckley officially confirmed for the dumbest motherfucker in the country
Hickman is 100% ditching Marvel after this (unless they throw cash at him and allow him to finish whatever plans he had for G.O.D.S.) and it's going to be Buckley's fault

>>150872118 (OP)
Sell the company.

>>150876845
To me

>>150874516
Katana of course. With Lady Shiva, Batgirl, Ravager, etc.

Hopefully my waifu will move to 616 and survive.

>>150872118 (OP)
Kek what a loser, smelling too much of his own farts

>>150872985
poor deluded marywhorefags

>>150876999
Miles will ever be recognized as Spider-Man?

>>150876999
She won't
She'll be stuck there and they'll introduce a 616 version of her using the Origin Boxes that Miles will nab next week

>>150877167
Naw.
They always save at least one person from each of these alternate universes who ends up on 616.
By all accounts Maystorm is set up to be the one from the current Ultimate Universe.

>>150874866
Sincerely shit lol

I want more of them.

>>150876708
And yet, most of Marvel's line is doing worse than current Ultimate

>>150877485
In the addition to "schizo" above, I'll add my theory that most of the "NuUltimate line was such a failure" is shills trying to push a narrative.

>>150877430
It was such a chill run...

>>150877566
I believe it. There's something very strange about how it's being handled. Like for instance usually Marvel brags about having huge sales and number of orders. But with USM, they didn't mention the number of orders they got until Absolute Batman order numbers were getting paraded about, and it had to be done via Rich Johnston rather than an official channel.

Some people at Marvel are desperate to make it fail in order to save their jobs, I'd guess

>>150872118 (OP)
I thought after krakoa, he was hired to do setup/plot seeding with no fucks given to the ending
he admitted as much about Imperial