Thread 150943687

Zach Hadel said this in a recent interview:
>https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/smiling-friends-season-3-zach-hadel-michael-cusack-1236554253/
What does /co/ think about this?
(Unrelated but, how does an anon who is braindead in the internet, which is myself, can get inspired for his personal projects for a future animation series, that can feel fresh according to this statement of Charlie)

He's exactly right. You need to have varied and diverse interests and things that interest you, to make great art.

It's like the old saw about George Lucas versus Disney people working on Star Wars. When Lucas made Star Wars he was influenced by old sci-fi serials, and Akira Kurosawa samurai movies, and pulp stories and comic books. Whereas most of the people who have worked on Star Wars since Disney bought it are just influenced by Star Wars itself. It's a navel-gazing exercise and that's why it doesn't feel as fresh as Lucas' own stuff. Same principle applies here, to cartoons as a whole.

>cartoons referencing cartoons
Makes sense

>>150943687 (OP)
People have pretty much always understood this.
>We saw every ballet. We saw every film. If a film was good, we would go and see it five times. Walt rented a studio up In North Hollywood and we would see a selection of films, anything from Chaplin to unusual subjects. Anything that might produce growth, that might be stimulating—the cutting of the scenes, the staging, how a group of scenes was put together, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Nosferatu were things that we saw. I remember Metropolis, I would never want to see this film again because it had a very strong impact on me. I have built it up in my mind and I want to leave it that way. This was Walt's attitude, always the search for something different. - Marc Davis on making Snow White

BTW if you ask the average animation fan what art and entertainment they like that's older than 30 years the answers are usually pretty grim.

He could just have said "I don't like postmodernism"

>>150943894
But what if it’s lots of different post-modern works across the decades?

>>150943738
Exactly that Star Wars example. Disney Star Wars is an ouroboros consuming itself. If a Star Wars fan had made the prequels we wouldn't have gotten pod racing. That was added in because George really loves race cars.

>>150943687 (OP)
As stated in the last thread
I am an uncultured fuck who can't make up for the time I have lost
I will make cartoons anyways about being a dysgenic failure

>>150943791
>BTW if you ask the average animation fan what art and entertainment they like that's older than 30 years the answers are usually pretty grim.
Let me guess The Cartoon Cartoons, Looney tunes, Nicktoons (basically just SpongeBob) that's it

>>150943791
This is stupid, you don't need to consume something older than you to understand a medium.

>>150943687 (OP)
He's exactly right and this goes for any form of art. You don't want to limit yourself and cannibalize your craft, you need to experience more. That kind of variety is good for the mind.

>>150944529
Retard

>>150944228
It was added as a reference to the chariot race in Ben-Hur, dude...

>>150943791
This would never fly today simply because employers expect their employees to be working at all times. There's no sense of community to a job anymore, and nobody would ever get their employees together and watch MOVIES or TV SHOWS with them.

This show is going to wear out its welcome by season 4

>>150943687 (OP)
I guess the last thread wasn’t enough faggot?

I’ll copy and paste then:

I’m so goddamn sick of hearing this shit over and over.
>c-c-comics are made by people who only read comics
>c-c-cartoons are only made by people who watched cartoons

Blah blah blah it’s not true. The reason comics and cartoons suck is because they’re made by women and faggots who don’t care about animation or sequential art and just care about validating themselves and pushing gay narratives.

The reason art sucks is because nobody is allowed to tell students, objectively, their art sucks.

Fuck off you insufferable faggots.

>>150943687 (OP)
He's saying the right things but not interested in anything beyond "weird" stuff he saw online that everyone else has seen.

>>150943687 (OP)
100% correct. And it doesn't just have to be media, you should draw inspiration from your own life experiences rather than creating something cobbled together from characters and tropes you've seen 100 times in the media you consume.

Ignore Zach's advice and you'll make a show like OK KO.

>>150943687 (OP)
Anime's long since fallen into that pitfall.

>>150943687 (OP)
>>150944860
Isn't this how we get those cringey generational trauma Pixar flicks like Trooning Red that just whine about their moms?

>>150943687 (OP)
He's right. Cartoonists should draw from more influences than other cartoons, otherwise they end up making a poor imitation with no understanding of what made the shows that inspired them good in the first place.

>>150944883
No that's what you get if you only watch Pixar.

>>150944883
"General Trauma" in of itself is not an inherently unworthy story to be told, just because it's been overdone lately it doesn't change the fact that it is better to tell a story that comes from your own fleshy bloody humanity than "I played FINAL FANTASY 7 and I wanna do Final Fantasy 7 except it's mine!!"

>>150944306
Based

>>150944883
That's more of an issue with how Pixar films are developed now, when what you describe goes poorly it is the opposite end of the spectrum and happens when you have an imbecile speak from experience.

>>150944883
Truth is that >>150944809 is right
It doesn't matter what an artist takes inspiration from if they're untalented

>>150944883
Moms are cartoons?
Generational trauma is cartoons?

>>150944988
>Reading comprehension

>>150943687 (OP)
Are we entering the stage where people believe SF is more meaningful than it actually is?

Was it Miyazaki who said something like this too? Or another anime guy?

The people who made those cool 80's robot OVAs were actual engineers and nerds. The machinery was detailed because that's what these people were also into in addition to animation. They'd throw in a cheesecake lady or two for fun and that's the show. Then fans watched this and were more into the boobs than the mechanical design, so that's the direction shows went in. Now we've got robot designs that don't make sense because the people who draw that stuff aren't engineers-turned-artists, they just started out artists without really branching to other interests.

Not just the robots, all kinds of cool craft stuff is suffering because we kind of have to pick a specialty and stick with it. I don't think humanity is becoming creatively bankrupt, I just think people with interesting ideas (aka most of us) don't have the financial stability to take risks on a passion or five.

>>150943738
This is the thing that is killing pop culture, 100 percent.

>>150944984
Talent isnt some ephemeral thing that only based straight white men have, the fact the people aren't experiencing anything outside of their pop culture bubble is why they are lacking in talent.

>>150943687 (OP)
This show is just a bunch of fucking internet memes. Why are we pretending Zach is some poignant cultured guy now?

>>150945481
Who said anything about white men? There are plenty of untalented people of all types, I don't give a shit about what kind of life you lived, if your art sucks, it sucks

>>150943687 (OP)
Yeah no shit.

>>150945410
Yeah it was Miyazaki

>>150945594
I'm exactly this type and can't find it in myself to give a shit.
Nobody is going to watch my cartoons anyway. I have no life and never will.

>>150945481
>the fact the people aren't experiencing anything outside of their pop culture bubble is why they are lacking in talent
Smiling friends is dogshit. Simpsons past season 3 is dogshit. Family guy past season 2 is dogshit.

Yet this faggot uses those other two examples and his own show as proof that being “cultured” helps in creating a good product. He should kill himself. And so should you.

This is the industry version of the faggots who come here and genuinely think and act like they’re the only ones who read comics or watch cartoons. “/co/ d-d-doesnt actually do x blah blah blah”. Or the pseuds who think theyre the only ones who read novels, philosophy or history. It’s fucking nauseating.

Im so goddamn sick of you egotistical, delusional fucks. Delusional, self-aggrandizing dweebs like Neal Adams were saying this before you were even born. This has been said for generations and IT HAS NEVER BEEN TRUE. In fact it’s false on two accounts 1. Far more people are far more cultured than these pseudo intellectual cunts would believe and 2. You don’t actually need to be cultured to create good art.

There are no rules, there is no process or paved pathway, to creating art. Only people who think far too highly of themselves say shit like this.

>>150945759
>Smiling friends is dogshit. Simpsons past season 3 is dogshit. Family guy past season 2 is dogshit
This is the funniest part, he acts like he’s citing (and making) high culture, sophisticated, historical touchstones. Looney tunes is a better example than any of these three of what a broader pool of influence can do to elevate a work.

>>150945759
Okay, so you're just a miserable cunt who hates everything. Cool, I guess?

He says these things like he's some learned scholar with his dated Chris Chan references, and not some "above average", "gifted" former student turned thirty year old Wikipedia skimmer. Fuck right off, Zach. Your 'real man interests' are watching YouTube videos and scrolling subreddits.

>>150946166
Oh so apparently you can’t read.

>>150943687 (OP)
>>150943738
>>150943791
>>150944547
>>150945410
Adding to this, Chuck Jones mentioned something similar along with discipline/knowing your limitations.
https://youtube.com/kHpXle4NqWI?si=rJmIgjqXWSmeqSQD

>>150943687 (OP)
It's true you gotta pull from Jesse "the body" Ventura and Michael Richards' Laugh Factory set

>>150943687 (OP)
retard who hasn't made anything worthwhile has opinion.
who cares?

>>150945759
Show biz corrupts, in his role you have to talk like that to sell yourself as the boss

>>150943687 (OP)
reminds me of an interview some old anime artist said. his gen looked to like real life, other kinds of art etc while modern anime makers just looked to anime and only really know anime so it was getting all samey to him

>>150944228
>>150944660
It's both that he's tributing Ben-Hur and because he loves race cars.

>>150946209
You can't write if you think that midwit slop you wrote is some kind

>>150947394
>almost two hours later, surely because he was “busy doing real shit”
>posted before finishing his reply
Absolutely seething

>>150945759
Can you name anything that isn't dogshit? All you seem able to do is just talk poopoopeepee kill urself reeee spergeouts. One of the things I've noticed with you contrarian types is you stammer and shut up when you're prompted to put up or shut up. You can tear down but you can't ever give actually good examples. Love to tear down but can't build up anything - straight up fucking mirror images of the whole Critical theory faggotry. If you do admit to anything then it'll open yourself up for criticism so you don't, just bottle it up and go "YOU ALL SUCK YOUR ALL FAGGOTS KILL URSELF REEEE ITS ALL SHIT JEWS AND FAGS AND WOMEN NOTHING IS GOOD"

If it's pure talent, nothing else, name us some talent. Name what's good. You said what's dogshit so say what isn't poopoopeepee.

>>150943687 (OP)
>If you're just watching cartoons and making cartoons based on cartoons, it spirals into a big blob of nothing

>makes smiling friends

Checks out

It's a fucking stupid query to throw out anyway, the people who had diversified interests benefited from it because they had organic psychological growth. This lent their creative decisions enough internal logic that, even in the absence of massive studios and editorial staff, they could adjust their work in ways that improved things instead of neutered them.

Trying to hire more jacks of all trades won't help because they'll still be corporate posers who will do anything for the cash and credits. The passion and genius aren't there, because that shit's beaten out of them as part of the process that makes them a good fit for the industry. All those skills and all that money are a poison chalice, and we're still drinking it.

>>150943687 (OP)
yeah or you could just make a product that isn't about regurgitating pop fucking culture

>>150944883
Drawing inspiration from your own life experience isn't the same as therapyslop.

>>150948364
Everything you said is most likely not true.

>>150947617
I accept your copium and concession

>>150943687 (OP)
>If you're just watching cartoons and making cartoons based on cartoons, it
spirals into a big blob of nothing.
In other words, AI

>>150948533
>u-u-uh I a-a-accept your concession!
I can’t concede a race to a retard who never actually joined in, Zach.

Now go back to making your sloppa.

Yeah. Kind of a no brainer, isn't it? If you make cartoons, your only point of reference shouldn't be other cartoons. If you make movies, your only point of reference shouldn't be other movies. Broadening your horizon will always benefit your own work.

>>150944860
>own life experiences
Anon not many artists go through interesting Life experiences that are worth crafting stories about, most artists comes from mostly the same background of experiences of becoming an artist and how they got there (modern artist atleast

>>150946413
>doesn't embed
do you mean this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHpXle4NqWI

>>150943687 (OP)
Yet another case of decent, generic advice completely ruined by the messenger doing a poor job of showcasing it in their own work.

I like how there are multiple people in this thread who conflate worthwhile technical skill with creative leadership.
In truth being good at your job should be a requirement especially for animation and artistry and in that regard the study of animation is essential for continued mastery.
But to be the one in charge you got to have worthwhile ideas and drawing from a wide pool of varied experiences is essential in that regard.
Not having those experiences to draw upon isn't a bad thing for an animator, but again it is for someone who is a All-in-One Border/Scriptwriter or Showrunner.
We have beautiful examples of artistry from the medieval and renaissance era but the majority of which were commissions of nobility portraits, mythology, religion, or history not of original works. That doesn't make them bad but more often than not they were just following someone else's idea and often using actual people as models, which requires an outside presence that someone had to have and that caries through to this day.

And the reason the Pixar stuff is shit is because instead of looking outside of animation to other sources the creators only looked at themselves, and a self portrait can be good via a skilled artist but rarely are they the masterpieces.

>>150949328
So you're saying that don't make art on personal experiences?

>>150949453
There is a difference between personal experiences and drawing upon those and a myopic self-obsession that negates the outside world for ones own feelings.
In other words you need to let the world into yourself and let it change you to make experiences worthwhile. Which most of the aforementioned Pixar animators don't.
The most wonderful vista means nothing to someone who is only looking into a mirror and you got to have a really interesting face to make it worth more to your creative development. Which none of them were.

Sure is crabs in a bucket in here.

>>150943687 (OP)
That originated from Miyazaki.

>If you're only going to refence other anime it's going to be a hodgepodge of slop, but if you refence things outside of anime it's going to bring in new life into the media.

Even John K knew this when he rebooted the Jetsons back in the mid 80s.

In fact this is much older then you think so heres what Charles Solomon said about the subject back when Looney Tunes Cartoons was released.

>Chuck, Bob, Tex and Friz would never do something as boring as what we saw in Looney Tunes Cartoons. There's nothing "tongue and cheek" about it, it's just watered down gags that they would have done in Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra.

>It's because the classic directors where inspired by things other than cartoons (Tex Avery loved stand up comedy, Frank Tashlin was a movie nerd, Bob Clampett liked screwball comic strips and abstract art, Chuck Jones liked novels) while it looks like these guys ONLY watch cartoons and nothing else.

>Even the crew behind Tiny Toon Adventures and Animaniacs had inspirations besides cartoons, Toshihiko Masuda loved American super hero comics and kung fu action movies from Hong Kong, Kenji Hachizaki loved sentai (mainly Kamen Rider) and abstract comic art, Hiroyuki Aoyama love photography as he even has a blog for it when he's not Mamoru Hosoda's bitch, Kazuhide Tomonaga loved car chases, Atsuko Tanaka loved cooking and Hisao Yokobori loved all female J-pop metal bands, namely Baby Metal.

>It's just that the people who are doing Looney Tunes Cartoons felt like "more of Wabbit/New Looney Tunes".

So yea, if you're working in animation make sure you have outside influence before you make your stuff.

>>150943687 (OP)
He's right, but he left out the other alternative to making good cartoons. One way is to do what he talking about here, pouring your heart and soul into creating something while drawing from all sorts of sources outside of animation.

The other way is to never actually make a cartoon or any other creative work of value, and instead just do video game "lets plays" on youtube well into your late 30s like Arin Hanson and Chris O'Neill, which is almost as good, right?

Mega for the new episode? I tried looking for "smiling" in the archives, but found nothing.

>>150943687 (OP)
Well yeah, no shit.
If your only inspiration for your art is other stuff in that artform, you're just limiting your pallet for no reason.

>>150950234
Try x

>>150949328
>>150949578
>source: It was revealed to me in a dream

>>150950290
I don't see how this would help.