Thread 151103161

>Apocalypse in adaptations
A nigh-unstoppable monstrosity of the "shit just got real"/final boss kind
>Apocalypse in the comics
>a jobbing little bitch
How do we fix this character, /co/?

>>151103161 (OP)
Make him fight Avengers for once

>>151103161 (OP)
Why does he have bimboification lips?

>>151103177
He is egyptian.

>>151103161 (OP)
He should be more sheming than fighting. Have a higher plan and stick to his testing than winning attitude.
But the hero needs to win, so villians will job. Thats like the devil in the binle is always loosing too.

>>151103161 (OP)
Have a character impact rule. Everytime Pocky appears onscreen somebody dies/becomes addicted to turbofentanyl like angel/ gets it's spine broken. Yes, even during telecalls and/or flashbacks

>>151103161 (OP)
Apocalypse in adaptations
the X-men are the only ones fighting him
In material he shows up once or twice at most
This allows the plot point to be either banishing him or his plans get ruin so he just leaves

>Apocalypse in the comics
shows up several times
sometimes in the very same year
has to face the whole marvel gallery if his threat level gets high enough
This exhausts all quality stories and starts to mount a sea of just bad comic tales

Comics with no end work like cancer and just kill anything good.

>>151103161 (OP)
Adaptations cover up to 90s stuff where he was OP

>>151103161 (OP)
You don't he's always been a big fish in a small pond, the moment he gets into the wider Marvel U he's utterly mogged by the real shit

>>151103360
What flavor of Pocky would Apocalypse be?

>>151103161 (OP)
Jobbing to who? He usually does fine in the X-house and barely steps out of it ever since The "fittest" went from anybody strong to mutants only.

>>151104425
I think that's the point. Apocalypse is a top-tier nemesis to the X-men but ONLY to the X-men. Once you put thought into it, in the grand scheme of things is concerned Apocalypse is maybe a storyline worthy foe of the Avengers at best without his Four Horsemen to back him up, since the Hulk can go toe to toe with him and Susan Storm can block his tech power.

>>151103161 (OP)
i like that Apocalypse is an endgame level threat.

It really feels like only hereos ever get buffed in Marvel Comics while the villains gotta wait for sometrhing like a big event to be a threat to a full team of enemys or simply having all the hereos stronger then them be sneak attacked and carried out of the event entirely.

>>151103380
A lot of people forget most X-Men adaptations are 90s, not the current runs that are bad and have nerfed all villains or made them lame allies. X-Men first movie is Night of the Sentinels but with Rogue.

This happens to every single villain over decades of stories. The only way you can keep someone unstoppable is if you only use them a handful of times at most and then defeated for good, never to appear again.

>>151104500
I don't think people would notice or care about how strong Apoc is if it wasn't for gimmick being only strong should survive. He is way too weak to be pulling that shit.

>>151103161 (OP)
Stop having world ending, apocalyptic events. They never matter.

>>151104605
He's existed for thousands of years and is pretty much unkillable. He just can't effortlessly win against multiple superpowered people by himself.

>>151104605
Exactly. The X-men books glaze him like he's in competition with the likes of Thanos or Kang the Conquerer when he's more in competition to the High Evolutionary or Mr. Sinister

>>151104681
There has been one future dystopia and one alternate timeline where he won and took over the world.

>>151103177
because like bimbos he is a monstrosity

>>151104702
Compared to the timelines where Thanos kills kajillions and Kang the Conquerer already having taken over most of time and is fighting the Avengers as a victory lap, he really is small time. Though that's not saying Apocalypse isn't a credible threat, it's just that it's harder to take his claims that he's basically the ultimate lifeform when he's being taken down by the X-men all the time who are presented as more of a danger to themselves than to the galaxy outside of really silly shit like the Age of Sinister.

>>151104605
Doesn't help that he was actually handed a cheat sheet with the Celestial tech back when humans were still restricted to hitting each other with bronze weapons, and the stupid fuck still couldn't properly wring one out.
>>151104702
Count that against the countless futures when it's Thanos, Galactus, Kang, or any other cosmic horror fucking things up, and Apocalypse is small time.

>>151104519
This, look at him up there with Galactus, Thanos, Mephisto, Annihilus, Shuma, and the fucking Infinity stones.

>>151104702
Wasn't that a timeline were none of the super hero teams existed

>>151104955
Yeah, but people like Doom and Stark still existed.

He was always low heavyweight in the grand scheme of things, even in Acts of vengeance he was barely fending off Loki's recruitment attempts.

his real threat is his age, worldwide networks and celestial tech, but those are barely focused on when hes used.ghghs

>>151104934
This is a ridiculous image for many reasons

>>151104702
Age of Apocalypse explicitly has him showing up before almost all superpowered individuals, much less mutants, arrive and even then he's only able to conquer North America.

>>151105408
Bro got his worldwide network wiped out by fucking Dracula so bad he needed to crash on Van Helsing's couch until he got his shit back together.

Poccy should be a genuine threat, but is hamstrung by personality traits that work against him. He should be the guy completely blind to his flaws, to the flaws in his ideology, the guy who tries to brute force his plans instead of adapting because being forced to change plans means you weren't good enough in the first place. Apocalypse should be a deeply hypocritical, self-sabotaging man whose underlings are as much of a problem as his enemies because his system advances self-serving yes men and political cutthroats over competency.

>>151103379
>Comics with no end work like cancer and just kill anything good.
They're disposable media. They're not meant to end. They're just IP farms for the shit that actually makes money, the adaptations and merch.

>>151103161 (OP)
1) he uses celestial tech, so he could be a scifi villain for people like silver surfer and beta ray bill, nova corps
2) he dabbles in magic, so he could be an extremely big threat to magic users and midnight sons. imagine how bad it would be if apocalypse gets the cytorrak gem. apocalypse is also egyptian so he could be a moon knight villain
3) he gives his minions incredible buffs and different minions could be showcased
4) one minion (or villain in his own right) he has never really buffed is dark beast, who is absolutely underutilized. imagine a timeline where dark beast actually teleports to the m'kraan crystal as he intended
5) he exists in the past and future, so there's a chance for time travel shenanigans that could involve kang, stryfe, cable and bishop. this would be the doorway for writers to have creative freedoms and depict characters that haven't appeared yet. this also means that beefs he had in the past can reappear, like Dracula wanting revenge
6) he's a bigger threat that most people realize if his former horsemen are permanently weakened to his influence. it's not just archangel, it's also hulk

>>151103379
you do realize you're saying it's super bad cancer, yet posted an image that's a reference from the cartoon which was probably referencing andrew wyeth's famous painting. the literary significance of a social darwinist villain at stonehenge is the elephant in the room. the age of apocalypse (which takes place on an earth covered in radioactive fallout from global nukes) was a political warning fable against bigotry and injustice. you get that, right? you do realize that apocalypse calls himself a god and has tech from higher beings, so to fight him means the heroes have to fight god, right?

>>151104359
This one?

>>151103161 (OP)
He should be a puppeteer in the background. Someone constantly recruiting and scouting Omega level mutants. He'd be a great tool to element power creep and/or characters that have become too powerful and need to be killed off. Get strong enough and Apocalypse shows up to either recruit you or kill you. He should also be pitting mutants against one another and against other human threats. A pot stirrer. Someone constantly creating friction between things to insight his theory of survival of the fittest. I'd also have him take over the Savage Land as his permanent head quarters.

>>151105408
>celestial tech
Lol Lmao remember when he started shit with Thor using invulnerability armor then when Thor beat his ass using a counter all he could muster was a "you didn't beat the game" at him. Fucking Big Blue Bitch

>>151104359
cookies and cream

>>151106356
>apocalypse is also egyptian so he could be a moon knight villain
Happened in the Moon Knight Anthology. Poccy jobbed as usual

>>151106613
Ouch lol.

>>151104934
>gyrich just happy to be there

>>151106356
Most of these are better ideas than anything xmen comics used him for over the last 25 years

>>151103966
>>151106558
>>151106613
Okay last one because I'm kinda on an Apocalypse being a fucking bitch ass jobber kick right now thank to this thread. Remember when Black Bolt no diffed his ass, yeah it was House of M but still goddamn this is sad.

>>151106654
>Gyrich
Pretty sure that's what's his face from Agents of Shield cuz NOBODY like Gyrich

>>151106700
Aaah coulson, right, the good gyrich

>>151106687
I wonder what was stopping Apocalypse from taking over the Inhumans at any other point in history

>>151106613
>>151106687
yeah that sucks. fuck modern marvel writers holy shit. i knew about the black bolt one but not the moon knight one

>>151106675
yeah almost like fans could write better comics!

>>151105408
>his real threat is his age, worldwide networks and celestial tech
>age
Nearly all of the other existential threats are immortal or age is not an issue due to having multiple bodies or time manipulation of some kind where a future self can rectify any issues of death.
>worldwide networks
When was the last time that mattered for him? It tends to get fucked up a bunch.
>celestial tech
And here is the biggest knock against him. Celestial tech should give him an advantage over everybody since Celestial tech allows for practically limited possibilities. This dumbass landed on a diamond mine of the best technology in the universe and still couldn't capitalize on it after having access to it for thousands of years.

>>151106742
Black Bolt would rape him to death, remember Apocalypse like Magneto and honestly a LOT of X-men top tiers with a handful of exceptions like Legion are actually the lowest of the top tier once you compare them to the wider Marvel Universe. Big fish in small ponds

>>151106784
No I mean in the past, presumably the civilization must have crossed paths with him at some point

>>151106803
Inhumans stuck to Attilan until about a decade ago in-universe.

>>151106784
>remember Apocalypse like Magneto and honestly a LOT of X-men top tiers with a handful of exceptions like Legion are actually the lowest of the top tier once you compare them to the wider Marvel Universe. Big fish in small ponds
It makes Marvel's attempt to put the X-men at the top of the galaxy during the Krakoa era, which mind is AFTER Cosmic Marvel has spent two decades being kicked around, even more laughable because their attempts to form a cosmic mutant empire didn't even last half a decade irl which in comic dilation terms would mean it lasted a few months at best. And that's WITH Apocalypse, multiple reality warpers and time travelers, an entire afterlife, the Phoenix Force, AND an entire planet full of even more overpowered bullshit super mutants.

>>151103161 (OP)
Doug is a better version of him now

>>151103161 (OP)
He’s just the Mutie Darkseid. If Apocalypse and the X-Men existed on their own, he’s top dog but throw in the rest of the marvel world and he’s another warlord like Doom or Attuma.
>>151104934
Is Dormamu on there too?
>>151105809
Yeah you got all the mystic and space threats and then Apocalypse for no reason. I’m more worried about Ultron and the Sentinels.

>>151107851
X-Men in general only works when segregated from the rest of Marvel and pretending stuff outside of it's world doesn't exist.

>>151103161 (OP)
You can retcon his defeats by claiming that was a clone.
>>151104519
I once beat him with Dan Hibiki

>>151106769
>yeah almost like fans could write better comics!
They really can't.

>>151104359
Existing? Matcha.
Just flavours? Strawberry-Daiquiri

>>151107894
Yes and no. The general concept of a "next step" of humans evolving because of all the mutative shit in the ground/ocean/atmosphere and needing to protect themselves while they get to grips with their powers makes total sense. The idea that mutants are somehow the only ones whose struggles matter, both cosmically due to the Celestials specifically choosing them, and socially what with being somehow the most powerful people in the world being shit on and shunned by the world, along with how they've brainwashed themselves into believing they're "destined" to outbreed and overtake humanity is what doesn't work, and not just because 99.9% of all futures show the opposite. It's cause cause Marvel's business model would never let it fucking happen.

>>151107589
Wakadans have done more in space than mutants. Makes ya think.

>>151106769
>yeah almost like fans could write better comics!
Doubt that. The average fan posting here or on reddit or twitter would be every bit as shit as Marvel's worst writers. Plot concepts are easier to come up with but actually writing them is harder.

>>151108017
Fucking Bootstrap Paradox space Kangs

>>151108017
To be fair, the Wakandans had a bit of a headstart and actually have a comprehensive and cohesive society unlike the mutants, who just kind of mashed themselves together in a jury-rigged sense of solidarity and culture after coming from vastly different walks of life and with almost nothing in common with each other.

>>151103161 (OP)
Why do we need more of him?

>>151103161 (OP)
>How do we fix this character, /co/?
The first step starts with you, OP. You stupid cocksucking nerds need to stop exaggerating things for effect all the time and pretending villains are "jobbing all the time" when most of the things you're talking about are actually "the villain's scheme is thwarted and he escapes" rather than "the villain is physically beaten up and cries like a little bitch" like you keep pretending is happening.

So the first step is you need to stop pretending stuff like that is even happening, because you retards are creating the perception that things are even worse than they really are.

The second step is that Marvel needs to just roll back X-Men power creep so that characters like Apocalypse, Juggernaut, Sinister, Stryfe, Exodus, etc, can all credibly fight an entire team of heroes and win, instead of there being at least ten X-Men who can take them on solo and have a good chance of winning. The Stormfags will shriek and cry, but it needs to be done regardless.

Thirdly, for Apocalypse specifically rather than the wider villain problems above, they need to completely disregard everything Hickman did with him AND everything Remender did with him, AND anything that involves clones or host bodies, and disregard most Apocalypse comic stories after the original Age of Apocalypse, really. Set aside notions of "it's canon it's continuity so you have to respect it", and just copy how the cartoon portrayed him instead. Write Apocalypse with "always make Apocalypse look strong" like you'll get fired if you don't, and treat him like some force of nature that cannot be physically defeated, you can only thwart his schemes or defeat his henchmen. This would need to be enforced in AUs, as well, as a lot of actual examples of 'jobbing' being posted are bad AU crap.

Apocalypse also needs writers to remember his goal was never meant to be ruling the world, so that fans will stop asking why he didn't do it back before superheroes were a thing.

>>151103161 (OP)
>How do we fix this character, /co/?
Pretty sure the adaptations already did that, so you just answered your own question retard.

/thread

>>151106558
Remender retconning that Apocalypse was actually always wearing invulnerability armor so he can then have Thor get an anti-invulnerability armor axe made to beat him isn't an argument for Apocalypse sucking, it's an argument for Remender sucking, When the entire plot revolves around having to retcon that the villain doesn't REALLY have a power he's always had, it's just his costume, it's not a good story in the first place.

>>151106687
Black Bolt:
>Nigger.
*Apocalypse is wasted*

>>151106558
Treating Apoc's' armor as it has the same durability as an actual Celestial was dumb. Dude has been taken out by far less for years.

>>151111019
Honestly, imo, Apocalypse as a character in concept and deed is fine. He's a big scary asshole who basically takes an army to take down, aka the X-men, and that long with the fact he's got enough charisma to repeatedly convince people who know better to work for him is something that goes a long way. The main problem is one similar to how the X-men comics have gone where their bad guys are basically world-ending threats yet nobody but the X-men are allowed to deal with them or really react to them much. So it makes for the weird effect where one of the biggest threats to humanity has maybe actively gone out of his way to threaten it all of...twice or so in recent memory, since I don't count "Lol I curbstomped the bronze age" as more than a fake boast at this point. Which means either he needs to be rewritten since he's overhyped or he needs to be refocused on being a threat specifically to mutants/the X-men, rather than trying to puff him up as something he hasn't been in ages.

In a sense, it reminds me of how Kang the Conquerer tends to get brushed off as a jobber despite the fact that by his own internal storyline logic, he's already won and all his fights in the modern day are just for shits and giggles. To the point that one of the few times he stopped fucking around and actually conquered the world in the 90s right around the time Genosha blew up, people seem to just forget he ever did that.

>>151103161 (OP)
Well it sounds like the Cartoons fixed him.

>>151111349
I think your best option to split the difference and not piss off X-Men fans is to make Apocalypse the guy who has drunk his own Kool-Aid. Every one of his victories is a resounding success that will ring throughout the ages and every defeat was a trifling setback that doesn't really count, as long as he's the one telling the story.

This is why I think the only direction for Apocalypse is to remain a good guy, or neutral. He's entirely too difficult to write because the initial 90s run where he first appeared made him so comically OP that every writer since has visibly had trouble making him work.

>>151111103
>Black Bolt- no Blakagar
>After everything you have done for me and my people I give you this
>T'challa hands him a single use N-word pass
>Black Bolt gives him a look of genuine surprised, touched by the gift
>Use it well my friend

>>151111349
With Apocalypse, they need to get back to most of what he's doing being byzantine schemes to manipulate the course of history for humans and mutants alike to ensure the strong survive, and that even when he appears to lose, he actually achieves his goals but the heroes don't realize it, rather than trying to use him as just another world-conqueror who never accomplished it because reasons. And X-book editorial actually needs to protect him so writers can't have him show up in other books just to lose to random other heroes, even in AUs.

Kang's biggest problem is that he's an Avengers villain and most of Marvel fandom doesn't read Avengers or watch Avengers cartoons, fan communities are dominated by people who only read Spider-Man books or X-Men books, and there's a huge amount of those fans who'll just dismiss villains from other books as "that guy must be a jobber or else I'd have heard of him, if he mattered he'd be in the books I read or in the cartoons adapted from it". Then Kang's one big chance in live action falls on it's face for both casting and story reasons and that's tainted the character in ways it's going to be hard for him to recover from in terms of casual Marvel fan perception.

In terms of actual "jobbing", Kang usually does pretty well against the heroes he fights, it's whenever writers pit Kang against Doom that they can't help making him job to the bigger villain.

>>151111442
How the hell does he work as a good guy. Does he just go around hosting friendly super human tournaments where he pits mutants and supers together as training. Does he just go around handing out Gear and HGH to huge swaths of the population

>>151111600
The traditional Grampa of mutantkind, he's always hoping that they would succeed in what they would do but will always be there with the genocide option if they want it

>>151111600
Drop the good guy stuff, and a disguised Apocalypse hosting a tournament for superhuman fighters as a way to recruit new Horsemen could be a good storyline for him.

>>151111581
You do have a point, him having byzantine and complex plans that rely on the fact he has all the time in the world has probably been one of the few aspects they get right with his depictions, and probably an aspect they should lean harder if they ever use him again in the future. They already have god-like entities, someone with an infinite amount of time and patience to maximize their evil plans is really something the X-men don't usually deal with outside of weird shit like Hickman.

>>151111600
He stays the exact damn same, he just now threatens and bullies the people that annoy the X-men rather than threatening and bullying the mutants. Or at least that's how they tried it.

Apocalypse as an Avengers villain makes a lot of sense and can easily be done:

>>Super power Supremacist
>>Fought Thor in the past
>>Will conquer the earth in the future, setting up the post apocalypse future Kang eventually conquers after Apocalypse gets overthrown by the OG GOTG and Avengers
>>Helps villains in the present day with power boosts and new tech to "thin the herd" of undesirables" IE the weak.
>>Has a thing for Wanda because he sees her potential power-wise and counters Steve Rogers calling him a Nazi when Steve basically cheated to go from weakling to strong man via chemical help
>>Has a massive hate boner for Hawkeye and Hank Pym for being normies who think they can fight Gods
>>Loki legit fears him, constantly curb stomps Ultron, and Baron Helmet Zemo sees him as a threat to everyone, leading to him eventually rejoining the Thunderbolts to fight
>>Regularly raids Doom's labs to the point Doom no longer resists because he realizes he'll just get his ass kicked
> Kang hates him but can't touch him as his entire future requires Apocalypse to roam free

>>151111442
>Tanks Black Bolt
>ten pages later gets obliterated by scott alone
Nah

>>151103177
Birth marks from his mutation

>>151111665
>He stays the exact damn same, he just now threatens and bullies the people that annoy the X-men rather than threatening and bullying the mutants. Or at least that's how they tried it.
See also: Magneto, Emma, Mystique. Important X-Men villains don't become better people when they change sides, they just keep acting like a villain but fighting on the same side as the X-Men. Apocalypse wasn't anyone on the X-Men's family or anyone's lover, so he ended up being the one guy they acted like they had a problem being there.

>>151111795
Power levels back then were very inconsistent.

Apocalypse should have been in AXE

>>151111581
>even when he appears to lose, he actually achieves his goals but the heroes don't realize it
That shit straight up tanked interest in the YJ continuation. It's not satisfying for readers. It's okay occasionally when you have some sort of payoff for it and you can present a compelling justification of why it's actually a good thing the villain got their plans thwarted, but otherwise it's a lazy asspull.

>>151111665
Making him a good guy because he's too OP as a villain doesn't solve the problem of him being OP, it just creates new problems. Also in general the byzantine and complex plans of immortals plots always take me out of the story because it requires so much handwaving of exactly how they're pulling off incredibly complicated and interwoven schemes on a global scale over the long-term given just how complex society is at that scale.

>>151111831
A big slug fest between two very hard to kill individuals

>>151111795
And like a page or two after that there's a line about Scott still hearing "Apocalypse's mocking laughter". The whole thing ended up being a Just As Planned scheme to get baby Nathan infected with the techno virus and taken to the future.

It's like an echo of Inferno ending with Cyclops obliterating Sinister, only this time they were already setting up in the exact same issue that the villain wasn't really dead.

>>151103161 (OP)
Apoc original goal not conquest its guiding humanity evolution, AoA is different version but some writers mistaken it for regular apoc and assumed he is another conqueror villain.

>>151103966
Pretty much this.
Apocalypse is only big and bad because he takes on X-Teams, which usually consists of mostly normal squishy humans that can cut or shoot things with energy. Occasionally they had a decent brick on the team but it's not common.

When a real high caliber brick shows up, they tend to handle Apocalypse. Thor and Namor can slap him around. He seems to perfectly equal High Evolutionary, and he cannot seem to be able to do shit about Loki. Avengers with 1-2 bricks on the team should be able to handle him without too much trouble.
>>151106687
Not that big of a deal, Black Bolt's voice is supposed to be an end-all be-all kind of thing. Like as good as blasting gets before stepping up to cosmic levels. It also blew up Kree fleets so the Inhumans could take over Hala.

>>151104425
>>151104500
He was meant to be an unstoppable force to 80s versions of the O5 X-Men. They were not particularly powerful but someone on a Thor level would kill them all too easily if they ever got into a tussle.

>>151105408
>>151106356
That's how I saw it. A guy who is some special herald of the Celestials, in Celestial armor, with a mile long Celestial ship should be a big cosmic threat that tackles Silver Surfer or Quasar, and routinely empties out planets. His survival of the fittest needs to be a planet scale thing that he does on random worlds.

>>151111782
I'm pretty sure Kang or Ultron could pummel Apocalypse

>>151103161 (OP)
speaking of characters whom have goteen this treatment

>>151107907
>>151108051
you anons say this post krakoa?

... are you, x-writers by any chance?

I don't even ever know what his powers are or what he wants

>>151111651
sounds a lot cooler than most of the "everyone enters a superhuman tournament Because Reasons" plotlines. I'd read that.

>>151103161 (OP)
I don't even know what his powers are supposed to be anymore in the comics. He seems to hardly ever use them.

>>151106558
Can't remember exactly where but a recent Thor comic doubled down on Thor not giving a single shit how he gets the W as long as he gets it.

>>151111019
Well that's gonna happen when Apocalypse does this stuff in the near future

1. Genocides all of Arakko and returns Mars to its natural state.
2. Kills Douglas Ramsay and revokes any notions of having a successor.
3. Doubles down on himself being the only person in existence who should be in charge of fucking anything ever.

>>151111581
During the Krakoa arc -A- flat out says he plays the role of Satan for the mutants as a way to make them stronger. He actually loves the X-men at the end of the day.

>>151111600
He worked pretty well during Krakoa as their sorcerer supreme.

>>151105408
>even in Acts of vengeance he was barely fending off Loki's recruitment attempts
Apocalypse is weak as shit, but I remember reading this several months ago and I didn't get this impression at all. He pretty firmly told Loki to go fuck himself, and Loki just ran like a bitch. Unless there was other side material outside of that one issue that I didn't see.

>>151103161 (OP)
He looks stupid
What's the giant a on his belt buckle even for?

>>151103161 (OP)
>reversed the old trope of a big bad villain in a comic being a goofy retard in the cartoon
Can't fix what ain't broken

>>151115961
He was dogshit as a mage. I have almost no occult knowledge but even I know an X is a shitty replacement for a Circle when you're doing magic

>>151115626
Apocalypse led a successful slave revolt and kicked Kang out of Ancient Egypt before he got the Celestial Armor.

Apocalypse and Ultron have never crossed paths (unless I['m wrong).

>>151111831
I feel like Apocalypse's weird body shifting stuff doesn't get used as much as it should be. It's weird in a good way.

>>151111782
>>Has a massive hate boner for Hawkeye and Hank Pym for being normies who think they can fight Gods
I don't think he'd really have a problem with this in a full on "I'm ensuring survival of the fittest remains law" writing because they're normal humans who by some manner are able to stand shoulder to shoulder with people like Thor and the Hulk. They've earned their survival until they prove they are no longer able to. Survival of the fittest doesn't mean just sheer power, smarts, quick thinking, and agility are also good survival tactics so long as you don't neglect other things.

Really, thinking they can fight gods is something he should be pleased with, it gives humanity a bar to aim for and hopefully surpass. He's probably even looking forward to the day when they rise up and defeat him, proving they've gone even beyond him.

>>151115686
>you anons say this post krakoa?
Yes.
>... are you, x-writers by any chance?
No.
We already lived through the era of readers-turned-pros who came into the books with an attitude of "Wouldn't it be cool if" and just a few years later, the consensus was that McFarlane, Liefeld, and Larsen's storytelling was awful.

>>151114845
Back in the X-Factor days they had a story where Celestials used to do their Eternal/Mutant/Deviant thing on lots of planets and occasionally they would show up and judge it, usually to eradicate it. X-Factor went to some planet that was entirely mutants and the population was divided between perfectly human looking ones with superpowers and freakish looking ones. The Celestials showed up and blew the place up.

Apocalypse should be the guy that does the going around and judging worlds for them. While also being the one who pits the tree groups against each other to see which one is the strongest and steers their evolution.

>>151115626
And yet they lose to the funny purple robots.
Whoever wins and loses doesn't really matter, the writer decides.

>>151117726
Which is strange since that's his actual power.

>>151103161 (OP)
What's his deal?
>t. loved Age of Apocalypse but have only read ~50 mainline X-Men comics

So, do you think he's gonna get super wanked in the MCU, considering the next Saga is like 90% confirmed to be mutantwank?

>>151117726
>>151118582
I don't know why it confuses people so much. He can shapeshift parts of his body into complex machinery like robot arms, rocket legs, and big giant lasers etc. He basically has any power in the world because he can morph his arms into some device that does the same thing like fly, shoot lasers, make forcefields, control magnetic waves, that kind of thing.

>>151118428
There was a really long period of time when he was their indentured servant but they've wisely not elaborated on what it is they had him doing.

>>151103161 (OP)
I think it's more annoying how movie/tv Apocalypse just has different powers from comics Apocalypse. Only the 90s X-Men cartoon got that he shapeshifts and makes machine parts out of his hands. Everyone else just made him into some reality warping guy that makes things float or shoots purple energy at them.

>>151118660
>>151118677
Let's be real, it's because people find the machine shapeshifting thing silly.

>>151103170
He's fought the Avengers. They killed him, the Celestials took him away to collect on the debt he owed which apparently ended with him sucking a lot of dicks so that they'd send him back to Earth alive to screw around like the Scooby Doo tier villain he is.

>>151103161 (OP)
"En Sabah Nur" is Egyptian for "never jackal pain terror" which is stupid

he's a fundamentally stupid character

you cannot fix shit

>>151118658
I think they're going to make one mutant movie, possibly just Secret Wars or whatever the fuck with RDJ back, and then decide X-Men movies don't sell like the MCU. Mutants are in the same position as Eternals and Inhumans, if it doesn't work, they're not going to go on making them. FOX didn't have to but FOX wanted to cash in on the Marvel brand when it was big, and probably lost money overall trying to do so. So much of the FOX crap was just that - crap that you only remember because FOX pushed it hard and had a lot of media buy at the time. But the places you even advertise things are different now than they were then. Even if you spent as much on full-video ads on twitch or youtube or wherever as you used to on network and cable channels, you'd still never come close to the kind of reach those old ads had. It's a different time and advertising hasn't really caught up.

Marvel Studios also isn't in the position it was in 10 years ago where they had to make back Disney's buy-in money or the position 10 years before that where they had to make Marvel movies work to survive. They can just stop and everybody moves on to other jobs. There's no point grinding the brand down like all you've got that sells close to reliably is Batman and so you have to make 80 Batman movies, this isn't WB/DC we're talking about. They can just stop. Maybe they'll reboot in the 2030s, maybe not. Maybe this is where we all finally start seeing original IPs get a chance again. Who knows.

>>151118694
Nah it's cool. If some dude came down, did he was going to make mankind great again, then his entire upper arm turned into a fully functional double barrel rocket launcher is be down to side with him.

>>151116473
Surelly not for France, anon.

>>151118582
It made me kinda think he's a really weird parallel to Reed Richards.
>they both had some kind of power that was added into due to space shenanigans
>blue color palate
>very tech focused
>both working towards the betterment of mankind(in a sense)
>both have a team focused around the number 4
He could work weirdly well as some sociopathic cosmic counterpart to Reed.

What I'm saying is the Maker should have just been Ultimate Apocalypse.

>>151118694
Apocalypse can shapeshift into ANYTHING, not just machines.

Anything he does that doesn't involve shapeshifting, stretching, changing his size or regenerating/healing factor comes from Celestial Tech.
>>151118694
Disagree, turning into machines (or anything else) isn't a silly power.
>>151119233
Interesting take. It does make sense.

I thought Apocalypse was more of a (coincidental/ unintentional? parallel) to Ms.Marvel. Both have Middle Eastern roots and the same powerset (minus celestial armor). The only difference is that Apocalypse was born in ancient times, started out as a slave of Kang, booted Kang out of Egypt and became just as bad or worse than the one he overthrew.

>>151116473
The movie version at least turned the one on the costume into a pyramid with a little capstone thing like the US dollar, so it has the "A" shape without being a big "A"

but then they went full retard and made a big "A" (with an Ankh inside it!) on his pyramid 5600 years ago, or about 2000 years earlier than that letter existed in any alphabet (and probably with the meaning of "tame" in every alphabet that descends from it). So you could read the sign on the pyramid as "tame life" or "life tamer" I guess but it's still reaching pretty hard for something that just isn't there, especially as the ankh didn't even exist until 500 years after it's depicted as a massive sign, and nobody can even agree what it originally represented. Depicting it there with a very specific meaning (relating to "life") that it probably hadn't acquired yet if it even existed at that time (which is far from a given, even if it existed in another form) is bullshit.

>>151119341
Total crap, if he could shapeshift into anything he'd shapeshift into a winner. He literally needs time traveling assassins to clear a path for him to get anywhere, and even then he only takes over north america. He's like a shitty mutant Trump.

>>151118428
Actually had Lee and Liefeld not his K'ed the Xbooks, that sort of was what Simonson was aiming for with the Twelve/Apocalypse. Except Apocalypse was trying to SAVE Earth due to the Celestials putting off wiping out Earth to give Apocalypse the chance to prove mutant men were not all sterile as far as the big reveal that mutants could not have kids on their own and could only reproduce via fucking a human

>>151118694
I feel like that should be something more like Dr Doom's. the smartest guy in a comic universe should be a little bit more than evil Iron Man in plain ol armor. Doom having armor bits that morph into other pieces of technology sounds like his kind of deal. Seems weird and scifi enough for him also that lets him punch up above the weight class of just a guy in armor since he likes to fuck with cosmic things a lot.

>>151119475
He did just fine playing the long game in Cable's future until his last attempt at acquiring a new body to possess didn't pan out.

>>151103161 (OP)
>Apocalypse in live-action adaptions
A guy that controls sand.

>>151103379
Why does Apocalypse have T-Rex arms?

>>151104519
Fits the name and the vibe.

>>151118660
Apoc is always stated to get any "physical" power which is why you never catch him getting into energy shit outside of shoot beam or turn himself into a energy being. Hell his telepathic shit is usually a listed a separate thing he just has instead of something he gives himself. Most critically he can't just give himself the max level of the powers he can recreate.
>>151118694
I think you this opinion is dumb but probably one writers share. It's probably the reason he usual transforms into machinery when he should be able to do plastic man type shit.

>>151105408
>>151106356
>>151106783
The problem with the Celestial Tech is that he doesn't actually know how to use it

>>151103161 (OP)
Anytime a character is referred to as "nigh"-ANYTHING in the comics, they very much ARE that thing in the X-Men animated series. Rogue, for instance. "nigh-invulnerable". First one knocked the fuck out in most fights by hits Cyclops can tank.

>>151120161
Which is idiotic. If he's had it since ancient Egypt he should at least have a good idea of how to use it. The fact he has celestial tech at all should put him at least galaxy level threat.

>>151119647
It's not really playing the long game if it takes you 10,000 years to opportunistically take over a radioactive wasteland earth.

He goes on and on about survival of the fittest leonard but he doesn't seem to be able to not get his ass kicked weekly by a bunch of schoolchildren.

>>151120903
He got the Celestial Tech after Ancient Egypt

>>151103161 (OP)
It has 2 main issues.

1. In adaptations he fight against the x-men. In comics he fights against the whole marvel and he is nowhere near A tier in power. In his most famous story, a regular Magneto destroys him without a sweat.

2. His goals are too desctructive so they can only be achieved in elseworlds or different timelines without affecting ie: spiderman ongoing.

>>151121180
he's had it for 1000 years, stop making excuses for him

>>151103161 (OP)
more like Fuckupalypse

>>151118582
It's strange that Apocalypse's original powerset covers virtually everything he can do, yet writers keep trying to come up with other explanations for things. You'd have to be an idiot to think Apocalypse would need to put on a suit of armor to make himself invulnerable.

>>151119475
In the AoA timeline, a lot of the rest of the world just gets nuked and ends up uninhabitable. There's not much worthwhile territory left out there.

>>151120161
You should probably be interpreting that one line about Apocalypse and his Celestial tech as being a similar situation as most people having no idea how their smartphone or laptop actually work, but they still know how to use it, rather than Apocalypse literally not knowing how to use the stuff at all. No matter how much people keep bringing this one page up to bash him with, the idea that he doesn't know what he's doing at all with his alien machinery just doesn't hold up with any Apocalypse story ever, where he clearly knows how to use his tech.

>>151111019
>Sinister
Sinister just fucked everyone for the last 10 years and only lost to the phoenix force which was reasonable. Sinister did the whole millennia long scheming better than Apocalypse ever did. Apocalypse never once thought that to beat the x-men he could just take a 50 years nap and wake up when they are all dead. All the suggestions about making Apocalypse is a schemer Sinister already did it, much better and with more success. And he started a regular bitch ass human.
Sorry but that spot is already taken.

>>151118554
Kang has never lost to sentinels, in Kang Dynasty he simply just redirects them away like nothing since he planted safe guards in them from the past

>>151117656
He didn't kick Kang out, also Rama-Tut escaped before they fought didn't the and also this was before he became Kang who can fight entire teams of the strongest heroes of earth solo and conquered the modern earth for a solid while....actually I am surprised Kang and Apocalypse have yet to fight or even meet again considering that

>>151122093
going by the map it's at least a billion people, probably more like two billion, and to be honest the only nuked bits are the middle east and south america

shortly after this map was drawn the entire universe ceased to exist, so it's uninhabitable by everybody

>>151122337
Then why doesn't he deal with them in any of the timelines where they win?

>>151123458
Almost all of those timelines have them blowing up humanity and Earth along with it, so there's zero left of worth to conquer. It'd be like why he doesn't just move in to all the zombie filled timelines and start mowing down zombies since it's now free real estate, not worth the effort

>>151122559
I had this one in white and black as was published in my country.

>>151103161 (OP)
You can't

>>151122161
Sinister and Apocalypse always seemed like both the X-Men and X-Factor writers back in the 80s using the exact same idea for their books.
>Evil blue final boss guy
>Scheming immortal genius guy that has been planning things for centuries
>Mostly undefined shape shifty powers
>Super secret high tech hidden science lair
>Powers up mooks into useful minions, X-team usually just fights the minions. Sometimes a hero mutant gets a power upgrade by them.
>Are too powerful for the X-Team if they try to fight

They're both the same guy, but one is for one book, the other is for the other book. They could have been very easily retconned into the same person working both X-Teams around 88ish

>>151103161 (OP)
What that mouth do

>>151124727
When you lay it out like that, it makes sense why there's so much overlap and sliding between their M.O. Which makes it all the more disappointing that so much of what Apocalypse had has been given to Sinister (without actually improving him as a threat), while Apocalypse is literally running on scraps.

>>151122559
>>151123881
Makes me nostalgic. Marvel really could do an Age of Apoc comic and series or something really well. I had the toy, it was bad ass.

Just give him an Armstrong cannon arm

He's trying his best anon

>>151103161 (OP)
You can't.

>>151104735
GOTEEM

>>151114774
>Namor can slap him around
what the fuck
how strong is Namor?

>>151111442
we had Evan for that

>>151122023
>had it for 1000 years
stop making excuses for bad writing?

>>151118677
>he shapeshifts and makes machine parts out of his hands
X-Men Legends 2 videogame actually got that one right.

>>151103177
Those are his Apocalips

>>151125726
I miss when I could enjoy and talk about this franchise

>>151123458
Cause why bother, he's not gonna get anything of value from wiping them out besides boring practice and conquering those timelines ain't worth it since he gets nothing of value in a ravaged earth but even worse a boring ravaged earth that's been done several times over.

>>151122161
>nooooo you can't have two villains who do similar things
>you just can't
>even when one started out as the other's apprentice so it would thematically make sense
>also I'm going to depend on awful recent stories to make my argument rather than anything that was actually good
Why are you like this? They both coexisted as villains for decades and it was fine. Gillen, Hickman and the Krakoa writers have ruined Sinister even worse than anything that's been done to Apocalypse by turning him into le quippy gayman.

>>151122559
IIRC some other AoA material mentioned Japan and Russia getting it bad as well, Sunfire was one of the only survivors from Japan. And Holocaust was trying to exterminate everyone in the territory he controlled, including using nuclear weapons to do it.

>>151128191
The one time Apocalypse and Namor fight, it's inside a flooded submarine, They're underwater so Namor is at peak strength. Apocalypse's submarine is wrecked, his plan to brainwash Namor is wrecked, so he just bugs out and leaves an android to fight Namor. They didn't keep fighting until one is clearly defeated.

It was a story published in 1993, when Apocalypse was presumed dead, with a note stating it took place before X-Cutioner's Song in 1992, but as Apocalypse is still healing from injuries in his previous battle with X-Factor in that story, it would really need to take place before X-Factor #65-68 in 1991 to fit. It's surprising nobody just dismissed it as one of the robot doubles Apocalypse used around that time.

>>151127178
Based on what?

>>151130323
>Gillen, Hickman and the Krakoa writers have ruined Sinister even worse than anything that's been done to Apocalypse by turning him into le quippy gayman.
Gillen is more to blame as he changed Sinister to be campy in around 2012, many years before Krakoa.