Thread 2926388

I hate to slide a thread to ask this question but does anyone know how much shit you will get in if you just go ahead and build your own house in australia? not yet planning anything, but i fucking hate the government and ill be fucked if im gonna ask permission to live on the land i paid good money to purchase. there are like a million brick and mortar cottages in the country that the settlers erected without permission, why shouldnt i also just go ahead and do that?

>pic totally unrelated.

>>2926388 (OP)
the picture is also some old field stone and lime mortar construction located somewhere in the US i think. i believe the story goes that the house build ontop of it was knocked down for a new construction and they left the cellar alone for one reason or another, built in like the 1600's.

just incase anyone was curious about it. i found it to be pretty enough to save.

>>2926388 (OP)
I don't know auzzie specifics, but in most of the first world, they can demolish the building if you don't get your good goy papers in order. At best, they can force you to get your papers in order, assuming you built a structurally sound building and can afford to pay someone to go through the whole thing and sign off on it.
>but what about all the old buildings
Yeah that's just how law is everywhere, old buildings can get away with being all kinds of garbage as long as nobody tries doing anything new with them. Do something new? You bet your ass they'll fuck you over on every step.

>>2926392
what is the likelyhood that they will catch on to a new construction on over 100 acres out in the middle of what is essentially buttfuck nowhere with no actual proper road access besides what amounts to a dirt road resembling a 4wd bush track?

surrounded by forest, place is overgrown with trees perhaps 10ft tall, little willowy things you can see through. If you just built a place and had it for like 10-20 years.. what is the likelyhood anyone would catch on to it?

>>2926395
I don't know about Australia, but here in the US they use Satellite imagery to check properties for improvements, mostly so they can tax you more.

Poor investment, OP. Unless it's a literal shack, then nobody will care. But if it's a full sized house, then people will care and anyone who ever goes out to your property can tattle on you and fuck you over, so you're looking at living like a paranoid schizo the rest of your life, which is not good. Usually that stuff is public record, so it's pretty fucking easy to tell if a building is legitimate. You don't build your house in a way that someone else can demolish it with impunity, which is what a 1st world authority will force you to do if you don't abide by the laws of the land. It all depends on the specifics of your area, though. Every place has different laws and building code requirements. Some places are easier to build than others, so it might not even be that big of a deal to go through the building process. I know you don't see it now, but there's a good reason for building code and legislation. It is true that in some circumstances it is a bureaucracy and perhaps a hindrance to the common man, yet in nearly all cases it is a good protection for the people. Understand that the people ages ago still had building code and legislation. That shit goes back past Ancient Rome. They would kill you for violating some things, by the way, so consider yourself lucky there's no corporal punishment for that anymore. Use the stupid questions thread next time, btw.

>>2926409
You and I both know it has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with extracting taxes, fees and protectionism for unions and corporations. Regulations were first introduced to prevent destructive fires in cities, and that has nothing to do with rural homes.

>>2926404
I can confidently say this also happens in Canada, they do this shit to increase your property taxes

>>2926426
>it has nothing to do with safety
emergency services service rural homes and do not want to have to worry about being injured or killed going into some shitbox that wasn't built to code.

>>2926426
There are laws to prevent people from doing stupid shit to others, and then there are laws to prevent people from doing stupid shit to themselves. Both are mostly written in blood.

>>2926388 (OP)
>hate the government
>land i paid good money to purchase
So you hate the government but your concept of ownership is purely legal. This idea of ownership entails some exclusive and limited rights as mandated by the government.
>funny

>>2926426
Don't be naive, anon. It's absolutely safety first.

>>2926426
It worked too. That's why every major US city had a great fire.

>>2926388 (OP)
Real answer? Are you confident you will never need to call emergency services? Will you need to hook up to any utilities? Is the area unincorporated? If you build a house in dumb fuck nowhere no one is going to even bother to figure out if you are up to code. But if you have to call any kind of official for a hook up, or if there is a government local to the area, you will EVENTUALLY get someone asking questions.

All regulations have loopholes. Find what technically counts as a house and what technically counts as an out building, get the "house" up to code, then build the biggest barndaminum you want.

>>2926395
In my country you can almost trivially get a permit erect a "tool shed" or "refuge" in your land. Start from there, and keep the outside of your "refuge" unassuming. Also, try to fragment your land in several lots: my land is divided in three, and that confuses the hell of the automated tools used by the leeches. And you can build a "refuge" in each lot, say, at their convergence point (didn't need to do that-- bought the land from boomers who built a nice house before the laws went crazy here. But, as another anon said, I can't add shit.)
Look around and ask the locals, see if they build without permits. Also, most trouble in my country is initiated by nosy neighbors; thank God mine are reasonable, but I've heard elsewhere of calling the authorities over a cut tree in your property, or some trivial upgrades to the house, with massive fines. Befriend some old timers and ask around.

>>2926388 (OP)
unpermitted building was still a thing when they had to drive out to the property to see what's up.
now they pull up gis and satellite images from a their desk with a nice mug of cocoa on the warmer, and you are going to be fined or tossed into the pokey

OP I reckon your best bet is buying a property with an existing building on it, even if it's just a shitty old shack, then demoing it and redoing it with a similar floorplan. You'd have to be quick but they wouldn't catch on. I'm Australian but live in the USA, if I ever move back to Australia this is what I'll do. Fuck the Australian government, they are pure scum.

>>2926388 (OP)
Owner-builder is legal under conditions and those conditions depend on which state. Eg over $16k of building work requires certificate of consent from vba in Vic, and you can't do certain specialist work. You also have to about the same things as a builder - permits, inspections, compliance etc

>>2926959
You can't do specialist work like demolishing, but you can build a new house.

Just dig an underground home out and have a network of caves and caverns all lined with reinforced concrete and make it look pretty with drywall. The entrance can be a 1 meter square hatch that you can hide under a decoy tumble weed or bush or something.

If they can't find you they can't fine you.

>>2927009
Everything is illegal in Australia but they're unlikely to catch you doing a house remodel especially out in the middle of the bush

>>2926388 (OP)
yes you can as long as it's got a stable this is the law

>>2926388 (OP)
There are areas of unincorporated land in the Northern Territory where you can build whatever you want with no council approval legally. Dont know about other states but think people do it all the time with shed houses that are probably illegal yet councils seem to turn a blind eye to it.

>>2927008
how do they estimate value?

>>2926389
man thats cool

>>2926388 (OP)
Dunno about Australia, but if it's anything like Germany, they'll bitch, moan, and eventually try to force you to pay a fine, nothing more. That is, if you a. get caught and b. the house doesn't fit any of the dozens of special cases where you don't need a permit to begin with. Here, most of those exceptions are centered around farming (my favorite example being that owning a single rabbit, and feeding him your lawn cuttings, means you can build a 100m2 / 6m high "stable" without any permits, then legally convert it into a regular house after 7 years, as long as the rabbit has died by then), and I wouldn't be surprised if there were exceptions like that in every developed country (other than the US, I guess, since they seem pretty allergic to freedom).

>>2927873
Bernd erzähl mehr über die Baugenehmigung ex Hasenmord.

A farmer who built a mock Tudor castle without planning consent and hid it behind hay bales- UK used to have a 4 year rule - maybe AUS has similar?

>>2926426
It's basically the retard tax. Rather than let retards build shit badly and die as a result we create stupid laws to prevent them from being stupid.

For example certain places (don't know about Australia specifically) disallow you to build tiny homes because some retard will build a shed and will be blown around inside it when the first big wind storm kicks off. Anyone intelligent meanwhile will know how to fasten the home securely that storms won't blow it down.

>>2926388 (OP)
Why does the government care if your house is a piece of junk that will collapse on you? Like i get them caring if you're trying to sell it to someone. They dont want people to kill eachother. But if its for you, by you, then they shouldn't care. Be free to kill yourself with your own hands.

>>2927179
Kek. I want an entire town built like this.

>>2928783
That is not true and you have a very toxic and incelly mindset. Try not calling people retards unless they deserve it for one.

>>2928783
As opposed to the mcmansions blowing over while Warren Buffet and DR Horton jerk each other over the insurance money? Maybe it's better that Blackrock should own everything and people can rent 2x4 from the home depot but have to apply for a license to cut it.

>>2928800
They care because taxes, you build a house and it increases the value that they can tax you

>>2928800
You're gonna die and nobody's gonna know what kind of deathtrap awaits until it's too late.

>>2928962
Thats what inspectors are for.

>>2926510

God forbid people to understand this simple concept.

> "Nooo muh indipendentinooo! Skreeeh!"

>>2929234
So you say there are laws for stupid people, but then its ok when these stupid people are allowed to vote a guy with nukes. I think its you that is stupid.

Either people are free or they are slaves. And you seem to be liking to be a slave.

>>2929326

Thank goodness I live in a place where I don't have to be afraid that the neighbour is so free that his shack might explode because of a gas supply installed by the means of freedom rather than by code.

I also like the fact that I can go to have dinner to my friends' places without risking a structural collapse because muh freedom.

If you are cheap and ignorant, calling those qualities freedom won't make them work.

>>2926388 (OP)
I feel the same way as you. If I OWN a property I should not need PERMISSION to do what I want on that property WTH. That said, I tried to renovate a run down abandoned property in the ghetto, I got redtagged with a stop work order posted on the front window and summoned to court and had to pay a bunch of fines. A building across the street did the same and they were forced to demolish the whole building due to going much further and still playing games after their first redtag etc. Angered the building department and had to tear the whole thing down. I am now forced to do all work with permits unfortunately.

>>2929326
you ever been to china? I feel like you'd fit right in

>>2928149
I believe they fined him for it in the end. The judge ruled that removing the bales of hay was part of the construction process so construction only ended when he removed them. This meant that it was finished less than 4 years ago and then they fucked him for it.

>>2926388 (OP)
>Australia
They will use sand and gravel as lube when they rape you.

Less obvious - what are the odds you get nailed for replacing your furnace and central air unit in America without a permission slip from daddy gov? I need to do them both at once on my house because they're both ancient and the evaporator coil is of an obsolete size and I'm just not going to deal with it. Got a bunch of 410a equipment cheap because of the installation ban at the end of the year.

I understand, I hate the council and governments' bullshit greedy policies and fees and shit too, but honestly it's not worth the hassle. They've designed it to fuck you in every direction if you don't play by the rules they made, and they will, because they can charge you, and they will. Best case scenario you live in a shed with no running water, wow, great. Worst case they force you to demolish your shit at your expense, then fine you on top of that, now you've got no home and are a couple hundred gorillas out of pocket. I don't mean to be a defeatist here but this is the world we live in and we've got to bend over for our masters or we get the whip, up to you if you can handle the whip.

As a fellow Australian, I must concede the foreigners are correct.. You have absolutely ZERO chance of building a home without approval anywhere in Australia without getting caught.

Aussie local councils are cunts.. They will go for the maximum penalties possible.
Being located along a dirt track in the middle of nowhere won't make any difference. They're relentless.. they are Borg.

>>2926388 (OP)
As a fellow Australian, I must concede the foreigners are correct.. You have absolutely ZERO chance of building a home without approval anywhere in Australia without getting caught.

Aussie local councils are cunts.... They will go for the maximum penalties possible.
Being located along a dirt track in the middle of nowhere won't make any difference. They're relentless.. they are Borg.

>>2926388 (OP)
Buy a mobile home..
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006993921284.html

>>2926395
Look up old photos and maps of the area. Sometimes the forests of today were the barren wastelands of yesterday.

I'm an unlicensed builder so have a pretty good idea, though the answer isn't clear cut.

So generally, it's one strike if the structure isn't liscenced, one strike its a zoning violation, one strike if it's a commercial development, one strike if you are challenging the authorities. It's sort of about how many levels of law you're breaking at once.

The outcome is often that the structure has to be pulled down, but depending on how many years you can avoid paying rent it's often still worth it. It varies region to region as well. We're in a housing crisis, some jurisdictions approach it differently.

If you already have a property on the block, applying for a detached dwelling isn't so bad. If it's a vacant block corrupt property developers try to obstruct you because they want you to sell the land to them. If it's farmland? Personally I don't think cunts should build on farmland, but if you go that route for fucks sake get it signed off as a shed first.

I've built so many houses for semi homeless cunts, the trick is to build a structure which will hold its value when vacated. If the build is a dead loss, it's probably more expensive than renting. But if the structure holds its value and its a commercial style build (not hippie shit) you can scrap all the materials when you move out.

I did that shit what...3 hours ago?

>mobile homes
You're not planning on moving anywhere though are you, that's exactly what you're trying to avoid. Why build a 30k shit shack on a 30k roadworthy steel frame?
People say you can sell them on... but the condition they'll be in after ten years will it still actually be roadworthy? As in, could you move it even once? Could you imagine the court order cost of removing a wrecked motor home, if for example it burnt down. Just to get that frame out if it wasn't roadworthy.
>portable units
Seriously underrated. Put a bunk bed into one, ducked heating (because that keeps your gas and carbon monoxide on the outside, you get a TV, a lot have toilets in them, you can install a box shower and just gravity feed water from a header tank and use instantaneous gas hot water.
Comes on a truck in one day, get it out of there in one day no matter how it turns out. Usually get a permit for one as a site shed for a farm. Because legitimately, when it's time to fuck off you're not leaving a massive shit on the land like the hippies do.
>shed-home.
Get a permit for a machine shed with a hinged door. Get it signed off. Government people tick the box, you never see them again.
Duckted cooling, through-stove with an internal chimney and ember catcher, lose carpet, pink bats, plasterboard, build a loft into the steel, build a second slab for your utilities so the shed isn't plumbed in.

If anyone cries, demolish the utilities slab (all of a meter wide), roll up the carpet, park a random tractor in it.
Government comes back, structure is still compliant, still a machinery shed, they can't revoke the permit only fine you for unlawful occupancy. Plead hardship, get put on a rates plan, you now essentially pay them rent to live illegaly. Which as you cost them nothing and pay twice as many rates as everyone else many LGAs will accept indefinitely.
>office home
Many jurisdictions don't enforce tenancy laws against an owner-occupant of a legitimate business

>>2934807
>4 strikes
No wonder Aussies will never.

>>2934808
>Could you imagine the court order cost of removing a wrecked motor home, if for example it burnt down. Just to get that frame out if it wasn't roadworthy.

It's easy to demo mobile homes and haul off the wreckage. It's done all the time. I cut up the frame onsite with a torch or recip saw into useful lengths then toss it on a trailer or if want shorter sections into my truck bed.

Intact MH respond well to a log chain looped through a window and side door or holes you smash through the wall. Connect chain to truck leaving a few feet of slack, hit the gas and rip out that section of wall. I also used that method to snatch the old water heater out the side.

If MH is ancient enough to have aluminum siding strip that for scrap.

Renting a rolloff container is one way to get rid of the rest, or renting a dump trailer etc. It's often more convenient to gradually burn everything flammable.

>>2934808
>portable units

Shipping containers are easy to work with and don't need a permanent foundation as railroad ties or concrete piers (using Sonotube etc) work nicely to keep them off the ground.

So do large used steel beams which I use for three of my High Cubes. You could even have adjustable height corner piers by welding simple mounts for trailer landing gear jacks or adapting them to the corner fittings using common jack pads welded in place.

Search "shipping container jack lug" to see a variety of inexpensive fittings ya can easily adapt to interface landing gear to your container. They're so inexpensive it wasn't worth my work to fab a set.

>>2926388 (OP)
Stop whinging and learn to play the paperwork / legal game like an adult.

>>2929359
>public infrastructure that tons of unrelated people use is the same as your own personal house