Thread 2940461

>>2940461 (OP)
OP here, I forgot to add my fucking question.
I want to do this but with the heat going inside the house (my area is not that hot during summer, but winters are cold). I had been wondering if modifying a cheap aircon was possible, and this video just proved it, so that's good, but they did it to get cold air in the house.
Would it be better to put the tubing inside the house for my use for better efficiency, or should I do it in a different way?

I suggest reading the comments, though. Some people say the fan motor might die, and that the way they did the tubing was retarded.

>>2940473
for heating i think the best is a water:freon exchanger heat pump. theres some videos on it but im not sure if i can find them from years ago

>>2940474
this is the style he used. the loop water interfaces with the refrigerant system
https://www.amazon.com/Alfa-Laval-AC10-16-Exchanger-Refrigerant/dp/B01553UZ56

>>2940474
>>2940477
that sounds great, but, how do I do it without having to touch the freon itself or having to modify the heat pump too much?

>theres some videos on it but im not sure if i can find them from years ago
can you post that please, or give me some more pointers on this?

All that work and effort when you can just buy a 120v mini split and run it off solar.

>>2940509
these are a tad more diy than a radiator zip tied to the back of a window unit
https://www.youtube.com/@Waldemar_Pachol_official/videos
this guys kinda douchy but give better info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng99_2K9BW4

>>2940514
>>2940520
the duality of the diy man. one anon wants me to design and build my own heat pump from scratch, the other says enclosing a radiator in a box and adding some tubes to dump heat to the ground is too much work

>>2940473
Don't do geothermal it cools the earth locally causing havoc on local weather systems

>>2940575
walk in traffic

>>2940461 (OP)
Its just a water cooling box built around the heat exchanger of the ac?
How is the water ciculated?8apssh

>>2940633
>Its just a water cooling box built around the heat exchanger of the ac?
yes

>How is the water ciculated?
with a water pump. even with that it uses less power and moves a lot more heat out of the room, or at least that's what the guy shows

>>2940642
so picel is what it accomplishes?

>>2940643
gotta fite global warming anonymous

>>2940643
Mexican heat pump installation

>>2940642
Interesting. His video was quite long so I didnt watch the whole thing but I will try to find the time later.

I wonder though, how something like this would work too improve performance. Maybe this could be placed in a 5 gallon bucket and filled with cement. 316 stainless may rust eventually but it should last a very long time. It appeared he used a very long lenght of pex tubing. While im sure it exchanged heat into the soil the pex itself is an insulator. Though apparently its still the preferred material for heated flooring.

>>2940672
In the vid he talked about the surrounding material and how it affects heat transfer. They made a slurry with graphite to surround the pipe for better head transfer. Cement is probably not ideal. He also adressed the PEX being insulator, said it's thin wall enough that it doesn't matter. The stainless coil would probably achieve the same thing. The depth of the hole is also quite important.
>>2940473
>I want to do this but with the heat going inside the house
An earlier video of his they put the same window shaker into an interior door, with the "hot" side blowing into a room. The cold air blowing into the hallway. It was 3x-4x more efficient than heating the same room with a space heater. Not sure you could achieve the same thing by burying pipes unless you could bury them deep enough to collect the earths heat and transport it into your house.

>>2940677
The graphite slurry is interesting but id worry it would dry out of wash into the soil. If thats the material used for geothermal installation it should stay put.

I still like the concrete idea because thing can be added to make it conductive. Metal shavings, graphite flakes etc.. conductive concrete/cements have been used in epectrically heated self thawing surfaces for bridges and road sections.

>>2940461 (OP)
>Why don't you have your own cheap geothermal system?
while I do have a lot of money, and a lot of time on my hands. I also am not stupid.

>>2940461 (OP)
I dont have anything. I ruined my back working from my teens and doing factory work.
Shit sucks.

>>2940678
The problem with using concrete in a bucket is it has a limited thermal capacity. The whole reason you bury the thing is because the earth has a much greater capacity.

>>2940473
>Would it be better to put the tubing inside the house for my use for better efficiency, or should I do it in a different way?
Decidedly not. You have to do the exact same thing he did, regardless of cooling or heating.
The important thing is not which side is hot or cold, but the deltaT the heat exchange works against. When it's 20C(heated) inside and 0C outside, deltaT is 20. When it's 20C(cooled) inside and 40C outside, deltaT is 20. When it's 20C inside(heated) and 10C in the ground, deltaT is 10. When it's 20C inside (cooled) and 10C in the ground, deltaT is -10. The lower number your deltaT is, the better the efficiency of any given heat pump. That -10 deltaT is why they had such a retardedly high efficiency in the video. There are more factors at play, but generally this is true for any heat pump.
Then as for where the pipe and where the air goes, that relates to the heat transfer efficiency from the internal refrigerant to the outside/inside environment. His pipe loop both improved the deltaT and the heat transfer ability of the radiator on the outside, but on the inside, the radiator is already good enough. This is explained in https://rentry.co/heatshit#system-design-principles and the same principles as a2w apply here, just on the opposite side of the heat pump (e.g. sizing the tubing and designing flowrate for carrying X amount of heat from the heat exchanger).
>>2940672
Your greatest performance fight would be heat accumulation. After some time, the ground, which acts as a thermal insulator more than not, will accumulate a bunch of heat (or lose a bunch of heat, whichever you are doing) and if you laid your pipes like he did, into a single small hole, you will heat or cool the ground so much that you lose significant COP. His layout is fine for a tiny AC that sees occasional use, but if you were to cool a house, you'd need to dig large trenches and lay the lines over a large area, such that the energy accumulation/loss doesn't wreck your COP.

>>2940712
I mean I still wanted to bury it. And also take the bucket off the concrete once cured. It doesnt have to be a bucket. Maybe it planting pot or just something large enough to encased the stainless steel coil in concrete

>>2940713
Yea thats a better idea ti spread it out.

>>2940713
>https://rentry.co/heatshit#system-design-principles
great, thanks. will consider the delta-t and your advice and this doc help a lot.

>>2940461 (OP)
I'm not poor so all that would be unnecessary work.

>>2940461 (OP)
I planned on doing this, but now he gave me an even poorfaggier way of doing it, and I appreciate it. I was considering ordering water to water heat sexchangers from chyna, didn't consider just boxing up the air exchanger in a little bath.
It will be for my farm shop, which is a conex box that I expertly sprayfoamed.
I like the midea U window units. They have 2 separate fans, so I can just pull one out.
Consider that too, you can just flip it and leave the hot part inside for your use case.
I also saw few people turn them into mini splits for their vans.
Got screwed by the post lockdown inflation run trying to claw my back up, thankfully I had a very mild summer this year. Been in high 90's instead of mid 110's that I typically get here.
My water table is around 10' so I think I can skip the heat transfer goop too as the coil will be wet always.

well, they don't sell these windows units in my country. I'll have to check how to disassemble and modify a split system...

>>2941012
check the comments lots of useful advice there too, like the fact that the fan gets hot so that's something to consider.

>you can just flip it and leave the hot part inside for your use case.
in that case I would have to use anti-freeze, I think, otherwise you might end up destroying the tubing and/or killing the unit.

Let me guess: A brain-amputee nigger rigs a heatpump with ground heat exchanger. A thing that has been a thing forever and you get reliable, testec and efficient units from teusted manufacturers.
But this is /DIY/ so you can't have the good stuff for probably the same price no no no you need inadequate, unreliable and inefficient ghetto shit that looks ass, right?

>2941062
>right?
yep
and yet (you) are the one who continues to visit this pathetic imageboard and shitpoast

>>2941062
what are you talking about? the guy spent less than $1k. from what I've read, you americans pay thousands of dollars for shit like this kek

>>2940713
>After some time, the ground, which acts as a thermal insulator more than not, will accumulate a bunch of heat
There's that thing where they make the underground part so huge that the losses become negligible and the amount of energy stored is enough for seasonal heating and cooling. Basically they pump heat into the ground during the summer, then pull it out in winter. Of course it's not for a single house, maybe for a small town at the very least. Also you need specific geology for it to work, e.g. ground water can easily just wash all the heat away.

>>2941138
>Of course it's not for a single house
Ground heat accumulator, they "do it" for single houses just as well, basically any geothermal heat pump that has a surface loop (buried 1-2m under surface) and not a closed well loop (long deep wells into the ground) will inevitably do this if it's used for both heating and cooling. It's more of an inherent advantage of surface loops over wells than a deliberate system choice, because you don't really have a choice in the matter, the surface loops will have this functionality whether you want it or not.

>>2941138
Do you know how retarded a person must be to believe conduction losses would be so miniscule that this makes an actual difference? You can not 'put heat into the ground for winter' crazy spastic. You simply rely on a relatively steady equilibrium between earths surface temperature and more importantly core temperature that, depending on your climate, is found in surprisingly shallow depths. And you just lay out such a system that conduction effects dominate the system. Period.

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>>2941194
Hey buddy, I think you've got the wrong door. /r/pseuds is two blocks down.

>>2941194
>>2941177
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_thermal_energy_storage

>>2941244
I'd assume BTES would be much worse than STES on small scale because of groundwater conducting away too much heat, but maybe my mental models are just shit.

>>2941251
It really depends a lot on local conditions. Water in fact makes great thermal storage due to high thermal capacity if it stays in one place. I've read of one installation where groundwater migratees slowly at a known speed so they would heat it with one loop uphill then recapture the heat with another loop downhill in the next season.
In any case *seasonal* storage only starts making sense at scales way above what a single house might need due to how storage capacity and conductive losses scale with size (capacity (proportional to volume) to the power of 3 and losses (prop. to surface area around that volume) to power of 2 for spherical shape), typicaly, dozens of meters in width and depth. For smaller installations it might be more efficient to actually maximize the "losses", i.e. dissipate the heat you're pumping into the ground as good as you can and just use the ground as a heat sink for your heat pump, by making it a shallow loop spread over a large area (both volume and area scale to power of ~2 in this case).

>>2940643
if you lived in the artic, would this work???