Thread 76513268

>Advice for new runners:
- Build up speed and mileage SLOOOOOWLY (start with 15 minutes, increase mileage at most 10% per week);
- It will feel like you're going slow, you are; don't worry about setting good times for a couple of months;
- If you start to feel pain anywhere, stop and rest;
- Don't try to copy what pros are doing. Do what feels natural; and
- Once you can comfortably roon 6 miles/10km, start thinking about a goal in terms of race distance and time, and look for a training plan for that goal (see below for suggested plans).

>Couch to 5k/Bridge to 10k Guides
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/running-and-aerobic-exercises/get-running-with-couch-to-5k/
https://i.imgur.com/ef98R.png (embed)
https://i.imgur.com/qNJIy.png (embed)

>I want to run a fast 5k, 10k, half-marathon, or marathon
https://www.runningfastr.com/
https://www.halhigdon.com/
cock and ball torture
>I want to stretch
https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/beginners/a32172701/how-to-stretch-post-run/

>Performance calculators
https://runbundle.com/tools/age-grading-calculator
https://vdoto2.com/calculator/
https://runrepeat.com/how-do-you-masure-up-the-runners-percentile-calculator

Previous: >>76501089

>>76513268 (OP)
rest day today. bit stiff from my 10km yesty

Triple Prowler Half
Elevation killed me. At times I was going so slow it wouldn't even register a pace. Flats and small inclines, I was still maintaining 8:30. Only ever other half I did before was with two kids, and I did at 2:07 with ~250' total elevation. Couldn't even enjoy the downhill portions because rain earlier made it too slick to send it.
>Training?
Some 5ks and 10ks at Z4
>Taper
Did 10% of race the week leading up
>Watch?
Fenix 7X
>Shoes?
Hoka
>Warm up?
Full body gym session 2 hours before the race
>Eat?
Post workout shake and a Kirkland granola bar
>Sleep?
4 hours
>Drink?
GAT Nitraflex pre race
>Gels?
Gay
Thank goodness it's rugby season and I don't have to run for another 9 months.

So is it actually as simple as higher max heart rate = higher talent in distance running?
This probably explains why all those speedy high school kids improve so quickly while boomers take 5 years to go sub 20

12 miler today. I'm going to stretch but I'm feeling rather pessimistic. My batteries feel empty and my legs are sore.

Meh, not enough KT Tape.

>>76513268 (OP)
weather getting good so i think i am gonna run like a 25min 5k sunrise and sunset till i lose interest or sign up for a half. any tips on recovering quicker? shit like pedicures, sleeping in compression pants or taking creatine

>>76513930
Run slower

are aerobics video programs such as this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a44ayeoSfKM a good first step to starting running?
asking for my friend who's a total beginner and can't run for more than one minute at a time (he's skinny and very out of shape)

>>76514084
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZZqcycnnDI can't do better than extendor

>>76514084
>can't run for more than one minute at a time (he's skinny and very out of shape)
Just like a lot of new runners. Tell that friend to make shorter intervals if he is having trouble.

>>76514084
No just walk and run for very small intervals

32k race next week. Did a light deload run today, just a slow 16k.
Now achillies/calf is a little tender and tight.

Fuck you God you cunt.

How many miles do I need to run to fix this shit?

I want to spice things up a bit, what would be an appropriate way to do intervals.

2min break -> 40 second sprint, or?

I run a 5K once a week, I just want to spice it up a bit and do something else, I'm not an elite runner nor do I run a lot.

Piriformis syndrome, hamstring strain days after paying a bunch of money to register for a race. I can't even sleep the nerve pain is so bad let alone run.

>>76514182
why do the users of /fit/ always suffer from the most obscure and exotic of ailments. never just as simple pulled muscle

Threadly reminder that long-distance running is cope. Sprinting is for men. Real men. Men with traps that cast shadows. Men who don’t need 3 hours and a Spotify playlist to feel "accomplished"

Sprinters
>built like warriors
>train like lions
>finish workouts before your warm-up ends
>actually get laid

Distance runners
>built like malnourished giraffes
>train like hamsters on a wheel
>spend 90 minutes chasing a dopamine hit
>still get winded climbing stairs

You think you're "disciplined" because you jogged for 10km? Congrats, you just simulated slow death. Meanwhile, I did 6x100m sprints and now my legs look like they were sculpted by Michelangelo on pre-workout.

>>76514235
I do both.

>>76514235
Marius Bakken AKA the father of double threshold AKA the reason why the Ingebrigtsen's got so fast just gave the norwegian singles method his stamp of approval and you're STILL not on board anon?

>>76514089
>>76514093
>>76514099
thanks anons

>friday
>don't go do leg workout at the gym because of heavy rain
oh well i will just do my long run on saturday
>saturday
>some personal unexpected situation happened and i was unable to go for my long run
oh well there's still sunday anyway, let's just consider saturday the designated rest day this week
>sunday
>even heavier rain than friday
I SHOULD HAVE JUST SAID NO AND WENT FOR THAT RUN YESTERDAY
NOW MY GAINS ARE LITERALLY RUNNING AWAY FROM ME

>>76513921
12 miler done

>>76514377
how much of a pussy do you need to be to not leave the house because of le hecking heavy rain?

is school back in session ameribros? I was going to use the local high school track but maybe it's too late

/roon/bros, i finally did it

>>76514693
> trusting your watch's vo2max
sad!

I lift in order to have big enoigh muscles so no runner twinks can say no to me. If I really want one I take it. I take his holes and then protect him from other men. Captive to cared for.

>>76514746
>not taking her holes
sad!

Pain pain pain pain
The air is lot cleaner here than washington hts... the run was not easier. I think im overdoing it at 17mi this week, my second week back running after a year off. My legs are completely fucked.

>>76514693
what does that even mean?

Mine is good I dont understand what this exactly measures

>>76514693
>troonbros, i finally did it

I teared up my asshole runnin, is this common?

>>76514268
>"i'd say 95% of runners are training with a sub-optimal muscular state, which is huge"
Is he saying that most runners need more muscle?

>>76514831
Have you seen 95% of runners?

>>76514851
He then says
>"The NSA approach contains the mist important elements to improve on that"
Does he mean the NSA has a lifting program for runners that would fix that? Do you know who this NSA is who he is referring to and where to find that training program?

how do you avoid shin splints?

>>76514693
>he doesn't trim his arms
disgusting

god damn it was humid as fuck today, i swear my face was a waterfall of sweat despite just jogging at a comfy pace, couldn't even get 16 km in :(

>>76514693
Yeah ok good job but what does VO2 max do though???

>>76514377
>>don't go do leg workout at the gym because of heavy rain
You are bitch made.

>>76514866
https://www.intelligencecareers.gov/nsa/development-program

>>76514831
>>76514866
He's probably saying most runners have too much upper bodyweight, which is true if you only care about maximising your running performance. Most don't, and that's okay. I wouldn't recommend NSA to the average gym bro as you'll atrophy your lifting gains away on 6/7 days a week of running.

>>76514693
Garmong vo2max is fradulent, you can get it up by spamming 200m intervals every day.
Essentially if it sees a low heart rate at fast speeds it rewards your vo2max. By spamming short intervals you don't give your heart enough time to go up so can cheat the system.
For a better vo2max score use https://vdoto2.com/calculator/ and input a recent race result

>>76514866
NSA stands for Norwegian Singles Approach, it's a recent method developed by a semi-pro UK cyclist time-trialler who applied the training from cycling to running.
The general idea is to minmax recovery and training load each week, which is something most running plans don't do very well. In NSA you do three sub-threshold workouts a week and a long run and complement it with 3 easy runs (or 2 if you only run 6 days a week). The theory is that these three workouts outweight the traditional two workouts in most programs (e.g. a vo2max interval session and a threshold session) while being less intense, resulting in lower fatigue and injury risk.

The guy who invented it went from 18:50 to 15:01 in the 5K in two years after being hard stuck at 19 minutes for a year following traditional programs. He also ran 2:24 in his debut marathon in London this year despite bad weather.

That's the tl;dr, if you're interested in training this way I recommend reading this: https://sites.google.com/view/sub-threshold/home

Appropriate training paces can be found here: https://lactrace.com/norwegian-singles

If you're reaaaally interested there's a 300 page letsrun thread you can read: https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=12130781

>>76514950
Maxes your VO2

>>76515102
What's the main takeaway if I can't be bugged to roon 6 days a week due to gym and floorball and cycle-to-work shit? Would two subtreshold-runs and a long easy run do anything? I did the Friels lactate treshold test today so I have something to work with.

Elite marathon runners are 5'7 on average, which is what the 180 spm cadence derived from. If you're 6' tall, you would expect a cadence of 165 spm. I hope you haven't been doing 180.

>>76515125
Under 6 days you have enough time to recover from harder sessions e.g. vo2max so NSA isn't optimal. Though IMO the injury risk of this is higher still.

You'll probably still make good progress with 2x subthreshold + 2 easy + 1 long but you might be able to get away with 1 subthreshold + 1 vo2max + 2 easy + 1 long instead, see how your body feels about it.

Hey Roonbros
I've taken way too long off cardio, but I want to get back into it before it cools off so I can roon outside again going into winter
I lift 3x a week, so how should I program cardio in the other days?
Also what intensity? My PR was 28:45 5k before I stopped running due to the heat

>>76515166
>>76515160
Thinking about it more, actually 3x subthreshold + 1 easy + 1 long should be better than anything else, as the main benefit of NSA is the third workout which very few other plans have. I'd go with that.

>>76515187
Meant for >>76515125

>>76515179
Sorry, to add to this, I was never able to run 10k without walking quite a bit, so I would like to be able to do that
My 1 mile PR was 7:30

>>76515102
6 days a week of running leads to injury. You should only run 3 days a week, never go above zone 2. Make sure to have a 180 spm cadence.

>>76515179
>I stopped running due to the heat
Run at sunrise.
>what intensity?
Start with a slow run. If it's not easy enough, go slower. Go from there.

Cadence is a meme

>>76515073
A VDOT score is very explicitly NOT a VO2max:
“VDOT is closely related to VO2 max, which is the maximum amount of oxygen your body can utilize during intense exercise. However, VDOT is a more practical measure for runners because it considers factors like running economy (how efficiently your body uses oxygen) and race mentality, alongside VO2 max”

>>76515204
I can't get up that early, I don't often get off work until midnight. But it's still hot even in the middle of the night this time of year
I'm going to use the cardio equipment at the gym for the time being

>>76515073
My shortest interval on today’s run was 1km

>go for weekly 6 miles run
>everything is completely fine with heart rate
>sudden IT band flare up
>enough to make me pussy out and give up at 3 miles instead of risking injury
>arrive home, not tired at all, IT band just beginning to calm down
>major shin splints flare up after 30min (haven't had these in forever)
Did I burn out?

>>76515102
Thanks a lot for this detailed reply with good information.

>>76515064
Ok cool. Wasn't really thinking of getting in to it just wondered what the guy was talking about.

>>76515017
>mfwyou just wanted to get better at running but ended up working as a spy for an intelligence agency

>>76515073
VDOT is so stupid.

The only input variable is race time. It’s a race performance score. Nothing more.

10km in 41:07 still so far away from sub 40

>>76515380
sounds like it's time to stop neglecting leg strengthening and hit the gym

FUCK NIGGERS

Finished 21 miles this morning, bros. Exhausted as all shit though.

Just completed exercise 1 of week 4 of c25k \o/

Qt who was obviously faster than me slowed down her pace to run along side me. Too bad for her I'm completely focus in my running i got no time for stupid relationships

>>76515487
What is better evidence of your capabilities than a race time?

Some of you guys really suck at running

>>76516006
Why so negative?

What do we think of 15-3-30?

>>76516065
qrd?

>>76516089
15% incline
3mph
30min

>>76513268 (OP)
first roon in about a month...
made myself get up early and do 20 minutes, then 40 mins weights
feels good, man

>>76514206
Those aren't worth reporting on.

>>76516095
Sounds dumb, just do an easy jog if you want to be in Z1 and gain some running adaptions

How do you manager sore legs?

>>76516231
pussy

>>76514924
intentionally develop microfractures

>>76516172
there's some popular study showing it's superior for fat loss vs people trying to pace themselves running

>>76516282
Okay sure, if you're fat then you shouldn't be running anyway as you'll get injured so I can see it being a good program for them. As a runner though it doesn't really have a place though as there are no running-specific adaptions happening. Even if I was crosstraining I'd take 30 mins on the elliptical over it.

Threadly reminder:
Nobody has ever been hurt or injured while
>running

morning 5k heal to kick off the week :)

>>76516300
>I'd take 30 mins on the elliptical over it.
If you're injured and just want some cardio in that's fine, but I'm pretty sure the stimulus to calves, glutes, etc from high-ish incline is far superior to the elliptical, stuff that actually transfer to your running performance

time for a roon

>>76515160
I'm 5'9 and my cadence usually ends up being around 150-165... just hard to get it up.

Distance or just getting faster?

Got to 5k at 33 min after a few weeks of running. Should I keep pushing the distance or trying to run faster? I know I should probably build base but I'm quite obese (124kg) so I'm worrying about fucking my joints. Goal is really to get faster at altitude. When doing alpinism I get super winded around 4000m+, I would really like to do some higher altitude stuff before my heart gives out eventually (in family). I image just getting higher aerobic capacity is the way here, and that is built by running quite fast right? Hence I'm thinking about just not going longer just trying to go faster.

>>76515979
Regular measurements of your heart rate at specific paces (measured via chest strap), as long as you hold the pace for 1km+. Measured repeatedly across dozens of runs across weeks.

A race performance just tells you the time you ran on a specific day. Can be affected by weather conditions, course elevation profile, sleep quality, injury, illness, race day mentality, crowding. Even how hard you try.

Some people race at 10/10 RPE, some people race at 7/10 RPE.

>>76516725
>Goal is really to get faster
.... there's your answer. If you want to get faster, get faster. Most training plans will increase distance during the plan, but with your weight going big distances will probably fuck your joints. if you can, include cycling in your plan. Free aerobic gainz.

>>76516736
what is RPE.... :^p

>>76516248
blow me

>>76516725
going for speed before maxing base is the equivalent of egolifting
do with this information what you will

Oh I misread anon's post, I'm >>76516746
>>76516758 is right

>>76513268 (OP)
I’m 5’6, 175 lbs, and I fucking hate running. How do I best deal with shin splints? All I have to be able to do in the short term is a mile and a half in 14 minutes or less. It’s not much but even that absolutely fucks my shins.

>>76516725
>Distance or just getting faster?
>Hence I'm thinking about just not going longer just trying to go faster.

>>76516790
Air Force or Navy?

>>76516826
ICE

>>76516832
If they run, shoot em in the back.
Now you don't have to worry about your precious shins

>>76516838
Sprints are fine. I think my jogging form is a lot worse than my sprinting form, I’ve got wide feet with high arches and I’m incredibly stompy while jogging

>>76516844
have you considered fixing that

>>76516936
Yeah, that's why I'm here.

>>76516944
Oh, nice. Shin splints = strengthen other parts of leg (clamshells are great for shin splints)

make sure you have strong glutes as well

stretch before warming up before running. this helped with pain during runs for me so much. stretching afterward is good but doesnt have to be as serious.

uhhhh what else Oh yeah try running listening to a metronome to imrpove cadence. to improve form try jogging in place and then just lean forward. don't cross midline with arms. relax shoulders and have fun.

runner's knee/shin splints generally indicates weakness in other areas of the leg that need to stabilize before during more impact.

AND GET FITTED FOR PROPER SHOES DAMMIT. go into a running store, explain your needs, and get fitted. i swear, proper running shoes are not a big meme they really do help.

t. anon who suffered from chronic runner's knee/shin splints for years before learnining

Was supposed to be a recovery run but went a bit fast.
Saw two buns.
I think some slavic chick might have been checking me out too.

>>76516746
I already bike quite a lot, it's my primary form of aerobic exercise. But I've realized it's not "enough", it doesn't transfer very well to climbing or anything where I am on my feet a lot. I have friends who I will beat up a local hill climb by quite a margin on a bike, but they would crush me if we were running. I need to have more specific training, just trying to figure out how to do it.

>>76516956
>clamshells are great for shin splints
Seems easy, I'll try doing those.
>stretch before warming up before running
I'm pretty flexible and try to be diligent about stretching, but I'm not sure how to stretch that part in particular. I can bring my foot to my rear and pull on my foot/ankle but it feels like I get more of a thigh stretch than anything to the front of my shin, though it does relieve the pain a bit when it starts getting bad.
>don't cross midline with arms
What does that mean?
>AND GET FITTED FOR PROPER SHOES DAMMIT
I used to have even worse problems, now I have some Asic Nimbus 18s or something in a wide size, though they're a few years old now and I should probably get some new ones that aren't worn out. Are inserts generally recommended or no? Way I understood inserts was that they were generally frowned upon for being a crutch which hinders muscle development, but I've had this problem for over a decade and it hasn't improved so I think I might just be special needs in that area with my high arch.

>>76516758
But what is "base" really? If it's just about spending as much time and getting as far as possible could't you just hike?

>>76516282
>b-b-but muh fat loss
Then fucking do things for fat loss. I enjoy running do I'm going to fucking run. Is it really an impossible concept for peoe to understand to do the things you enjoy doing instesd of other consequences like:
>muh fat loss!!!
No, fat loss so happens to be a consequence of doing the activity you enjoy doing. Just like the strength training exercises I do for enjoyment so happen to help benefit my running.

>>76516986
You can add resistance bands to the clamshells and also eventually side planks with a leg lift are killer.
>how to stretch
look up a YouTube video. there's plenty of good stretches, everyone has different stiff spots but most commonly hamstrings. calves are neglected in stretches, make sure to get those too.
>midline
imagine there's a line that marks the absolute middle of your body. when you swing your arms back and forth between those planes, you get tired and lose forward momentum. try not to cross it, and you'll feel less tense and like you're 'fighting' the movement.
>shoes
definitely get new ones, shoes do age. talk to the shoe store employee about the arch and inserts. I don't struggle with that personally but my friend had some success with hers. can't give much advice there. track the miles on your new shoes, generally rec'd to replace every 500 miles

>>76517004
>when you swing your arms back and forth between those planes, you get tired and lose forward momentum. try not to cross it
So you bring your arms forward and then stop half way before bringing them backwards? I think I do that already but I'll try to be more conscious of it

>>76517013
no, like if you reach your right arm to the left. you're crossing the midline

>>76517016
Who the fuck reaches right to left or left to right while running?

>>76517019
some people naturally swing back and forth like that when they run, i was just trying to explain what it's like lel

>>76516956
Running shoes are for the most part a meme. Yes, I agree you should get a fit but you could go on comfort. Too many companies jump on bandwagons like minimalist and pronation. I got several fittings done, and every time I was "overpronating." Bought shoes for it, and was injured more until I started talking to a physical therapist who specializes in endurance sports who literally just told me to go with what's comfortable. Surprisingly enough, the injuries went down even with cheap ass shoes like Saucony Excursions. When I did get injured, it was almost always for stupid reasons like me changing my natural foot strike (mid to fore), falling for a meme like minimalist or 180 cadence (my natural is 165-170), doing too much intensity, or some other ego related issue.

>>76517022
Strange. Anyway, thanks for the help. Any recommendations for what I should do on off days? Yesterday I ran (and walked) a couple miles. I went out today and just walked to see how it would feel, and even that had my shins on fire after like half a mile. It got a little better after pushing through and jogging a bit. But it got me thinking I should probably just run back and forth across the grass at the park near me rather than running around the neighborhood on the sidewalk. And that I should freshen up my shoes.

>>76517034
isn't the ideal foot strike mid? why would you switch to fore
also i just meant getting fitted, i too went for comfort but i had no idea i was wearing a full size and half smaller than i should be my whole life.

>>76517038
freshening up shoes would probably help, and maybe try compression socks! really helped me when I was sore. also try resting more than you think you should for a few weeks, then gradually rebuild to what you've been doing
also like other anon said can't hurt tp see a physical therapist especially with the high arches thing

>>76517047
Any recommendations for socks or those shin/calf compression sleeves? I had some sleeves once a long time ago but it never seemed to help with anything, probably because my problems were more on form and shoes.

What kind of running should I do to get faster at dirt bike racing? My races are 1.5 hours. Right now I'm just going slow to get in shape but once a week I pick up the pace for a 5k @ 10/mi. When I'm in shape I can do a 25 min 5k. I know I need to be riding my bike also and probably doing upper body workouts but I just like running and any fitness is better than what I was doing last race season

>>76517053
Def socks > sleeves. Socks give more consistent compression and prevent blood pooling with the two holes leg has to go through. I really like my Bombas socks, but they're expensive. You can probably find some cheaper on Amazon. Thinking of socks makes me have to shill the feetures max cushion running socks, they're also expensive but holy fuck i love them lol.

>>76517019
girls

*solves any running concerns you might have*
It does not get any simpler than that, lads.

>>76517077
grug needs more instructions, how many repetitions

Gonna try a morning run tomorrow roon bros. What should I eat?

>>76513268 (OP)
Im running mostly for weight loss. Was 230 at beginning of year, am now 220. Been playing around too much so running a lot now like my favorite video game character Sonic the Hedgehog

>>76517113
Nigga the year is almost over and you only lost 10 lbs

>>76517040
Ideal is what works for you based upon your physiology and how well each component can handle the stress. Usually your natural is best. Midfoot so happens to be "best" because it tends to spread out the stress more evenly while notbusing as much energy. I switched to forefoot because I fell for the running meme that was going around here. Even running with a light weight vest was a meme here for awhile because some trail runners here were getting good times, they saw they were wearing hydration vests during their long runs, so decided wearing a few extra while running = OMG I'M GOING TO BE A FAST ROONER!! Thank fucking goodness I didn't fall for that one.

I agree with that last part. Getting fitted does mean on size as well including toe bix widtg. The main issue I have is most who do the fittings are just salesmen who don't do a proper fitting. They may watch you on a treadmill (and they may have you do it barefoot, which may make you unconsciously forefoot strike when you are a midfooter, which will affect your mechanics even more since yiur natural stride is slightly affected by the treadmill itself) and think since you slightly lean to the edge of your inner feet turned slightly inward means you pronate and therefore need $160 shoes that give you an 8mm offset to correct the pronation.

>>76517126
hey, maybe he's like 5'0 and 230. it would be hard to run at a BMI that gargantuan.

>>76517132
Oh yikes, didn't think of that desu. I'm spoiled and my local running shop is owned by a guy in his 50s who is extremely cool and doesn't do that dumb gait evaluation bullshit. he just helped me learn proper shoe fitment, taught me about the advantage of different treads and that comfort is key above all

>>76517077
>bench
>no weight
well meme'd

>>76517146
could just use a couch

>>76517142
Now that guy is the type of guy running stores need. The ones around here are not like that at all.

>city going to shit
>can't night run anymore

fuck

>>76517254
why cant you night run?

>>76517271
I've been accosted multiple times by skunks.

>>76517289
LMAO not the answer i was expecting but alright

>>76517271
don't want to get mugged/murdered

I ran 69 miles this week.
I literally can't stop rooning.

>>76517324
Running your tongue on your girlfriend's muffin top isn't actual running, anon.

>>76517338
sex is cardio for sure dude

Single seat recovery jog
Need to start incorporating 100/400/800/1600 repeats.

How the FUCK can I make hills manageable bros
everywhere around me is a fucking hill and it's a nightmare

>recovery
>154bpm
Wtf anon is your max heart rate 250 beats per minute?

>>76517528
It's hill central here.
Just remember that if you must walk then walk uphill, but do try to get your cadence going from the very beginning.
It's bad running form but I find that running almost side-to-side with the feet like you're hustling up with a zig-zag motion is easier than trying to scale it directly up with proper form. Online there have been suggestions to "fall forward" so you could try that otherwise.

Jesus trying to start the couch to 5K bit. I feel so dead. I've been walking for a while, barely reaching into power walking, thought I could handle it but wew. I'm pretty sure I run slower than I walk.

max 3:14 min/km
avg 4:57 min/km on my 3.19 km run today
had a weird coughing fit after i got back home, not used to running so fast

>>76518061
it's all the mucus in your lungs getting shook up (it's normal). anyway that's prob a bit too fast if you're splitting 5 average

>long run got page 10'd
not on my watch

>>76518085
oh yeah, definitely not something id do every day, but i got hit with the need for speed

>>76517077
This exercise is GOAT’d.
I had huge issues with tendons below my left knee for the last two years. I couldn’t run over 30km or any run under 5km pace would fuck me up for a few weeks. Clamshells and dead bugs can get fucked along with my moderately attractive physio. Some autist posted this same image and same message.
Hit over 50km for the last three weeks and all I do is 50 reps each leg a day.
Bless you all

>>76518070
have YOU ever finished a marathon?

>>76514693
Late 30's boomer detected

>>76518245
>Why yes, I am fitter than Jakob Ingebrigtsen and Keely Hodgkinson because those frauds have never ran a marathon

>>76518311
Your mile time is faster than Ingebrigtsen? Very impressive anon.

Oh wait…

>>76517481
It is, but it's not running. Your cardio should be good enough to go at it for 2 hours non-stop.

>>76517685
>Online there have been suggestions to "fall forward" so you could try that otherwise.
>fall foward
Thanks for reminding me of the chi-running. That was always such a laugh.

>>76518311
Do you prefer lasting hours in bed (marathoners) or be a quick shot (sprintkeks)?

I have a half marathon in 4 weeks, what's the best way of improving my pace without overtraining?

>*Ahem*
Barefoot shoes are a meme!
>Leaves thread

>>76518070
>fatties
>jogging
>marathon
They walk most of it. Which is why modern marathons are a joke, niggas get a medal for participation lmao.

>>76518408
Starting your training 12 weeks earlier
You fucking schmuck

tempo runs getting easier as the weather cools

next up: 27 km long run with 12 km at marathon pace

>>76518070
Nobody believes that but I agree a 5h marathon is barely running. It WAS very hard though, but I barely got over 160BPM and recovered in three days

>>76518070
It’s a matter of scale for them. Running a 5hr marathon seems like something that they could someday achieve.

Running a sub-5min mile to them is impressive in the way Superman’s ability to fly is impressive. So beyond the realm of possibility that it doesn’t seem real.

>>76513268 (OP)
ZAAAAMN who is the yellow?!

When you are running do you sometimes disassociate and that's when you run the best, like you are running on pure instincts?

>>76519404
Kek most of these guys are actually running but hiding it whenever they """walk""" past a judge

>>76519520
lol yeah even in that pic two of them have both feet off the ground. Thought that wasn't allowed?

Anyone tried running on keto? Like doing base training while losing weight, then introduce carbs when goal weight is reached?
Thinking about doing only long slow distance whilst on keto and losing weight? Good plan?

I just wanted to say I am overweight, lazy, whatever,

But started up again jogging and am now at the point where on a day with nice weather like today, sunny, dry, a nice breeze, feeling good, there is nothing better than going for a nice 5k run, listen to some music or a podcast, get some sun, fresh air, I just feel amazing, the run wasn't even hard, I just decided I'm gonna take it easy, not let my heart rate or breathing get too crazy, get enough rest days so my feet, ankles, achilles can strengthen up again, ran 3 days last week, hopefully another 3 this week, the dream is to be able to do a 5k at an enjoyable pace every day so i can feel this good all the time, it's like a drug, can't believe I ever stopped

should i talk to running girls or nah? i kind of feel like fuck the stigma no one is going to date me anyway

>>76519860
No. Girls hate getting hit on when they’re just trying to get a workout in.

>>76519860
I'm just saying hello if it's a slow run, or just give a RESPECTFUL head nod. Granted, I'm doing that to everybody I cross path with until I'm in too much pain or exhausted. I'm the Hello Guy, yep that's me, greeting is what I do. Can't help it ahaha.

>>76519664
We got another one boys.
Now what’s gonna happen next, is one day you’ll wonder what happens after 5k. Then all of a sudden youre out in the middle of the woods at 2am in the running an ultra.

>>76519440
Konichiwa dude

>>76519860
depends on if you're ugly or not brah

Treadmill chad reporting
How's the weather, outdoorfags?
My a/c is on right now.
Keep copin' and hurtin' your joints!
5k in 22 minutes.

>>76520116
*5k in 25 minutes on real land

>>76519950
bro i dont want to be friendly i just want to bang them

>>76520125
*3k in 19 min

>>76519885
Only incels with crab mentally say shit like this so they don't feel so bad about themselves. Hut on them who cares just don't be creepy

it's raining again... :(

>>76519971
>Then all of a sudden youre out in the middle of the woods at 2am in the running an ultra.
Stumbling over a tree root that appeared all of a sudden laughing at you , causing you to get another majkr scrape. As you get up, you wonder what the next aid station will have...hopefully beef stew.

>>76519404
take the walkpill
you can do all your Zone 2-3 with zero impact

Jesus Christ, grifters are now trying to cash in on the Norwegian Singles fad by charging $75 for a "Norwegian Singles style" Marathon training plan: https://www.finalsurge.com/coach/StevePalladino/plan/98691

Like wtf is this hot garbage, you CAN'T do norwegian singles on 4 days a week, it doesn't work unless you're doing 6 days minimum, though ideally 7. Fuck me the guy who made it didn't even up it to 3 workouts a week on 4 days of running.

>>76520346
>$75 for an excel spreadsheet
ISHYGDDT

>>76516725
>5k at 33 min
>124kg
Holy shit, that's incredible. I'm 90ish kg and my 5k PB is 31min.

>>76519860
Not right in the middle of the run, you sperg. You can pick them up in the cooldown lap, or when they're grabbing a water and toweling off their solid but plump fanny before they head home

>>76520422
>runner girls
>plump fanny
Pick one. None of them even do squats.

>>76516832
>ICE
Did you really apply to HSI without hitting the bare minimum pft standards?

SEX SEX SEX SEX SEXXXXXXXXXXXX

>>76514235
>Actually get laid
there is nothing more spergy and cringe than being a recreational sprinter.
>What do you do for fun anon?
>I sprint

This was supposed to be a "steady pace" run, went a bit quick. Maybe this is my steady pace, idk. Felt good overall. Tomorrow is tempo pace, so I have to go even faster I guess, and further too.
No buns, but did see two big herons in the river. I guess they're hunting for salmon, I haven't seen any yet though.
Also at one point, there was a cute woman who was walking in the other direction. I was kind of looking at her as we got closer, and she kept staring at her phone, but at the very last second she looked at me and we made eye contact... what does it mean?

>>76520742
The track and field webms i jerk off too beg to differ

Starting out running was the fucking best. I could get an endorphin rush in just 2 miles. Then it became 3, then 4, then 5... now it takes me 10k just to feel it. Runners are just dirty junkies. They even have the physiques of crackheads.

What should i take up instead? Cliffdiving?

>>76519606
Sprinting on keto doesn't work very well IME. Tried it a few times and every time would run out of 'go' before the end of a session and had to go back on carbs before racing.
Never tried it when I was doing middle and long distances but young and did enough fast work to not have to worry much about my diet.

>>76521635
I should follow that up by saying it will probably be fine but be prepared to be slow and feel weaker than normal.

>>76521629
Those are the other events that require a strong tush like high jump, pole vault, and the sprinting events. Actual runner girls have nice bony asses that are completely hard to touch and hurt when they sit on you.

>>76521501
300m is the sweetest distance...you can feel the rush of near-maximal velocity AND take a ton of walk breaks for as long as you like in the final quarter-turn or straight

>>76513268 (OP)
Finally hit double digits, did 10km in 56:34 yesterday. Being a type 1 diabetic sucks, treating low blood sugars is almost always my choke point. I for sure felt like I could've gone longer but only brought 1 gel with me and had already eaten it by the time 10k rolled around. I did ~9.5km last week with a friend and felt like I could've done double that but had to stop to treat a low. Shit sucks, so much trial and error.

>>76521629
post em

>>76521675
That's what you get for being fat as a kid

what strength training are you doing for hip flexors? i'm having trouble keeping my knees up. it's always been a weak point for me.

>>76520352
You wouldn't believe the price at which an excel spreadsheet can be sold. I once worked on a spreadsheet that was sold 3000 eurodollars to the client.

>>76522107
I will try to do Romanian deadlifts and hip bridge regularly during the next weeks

>>76522107
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qFYxMXCC3A
Personally I literally and figuratively do this

>>76514239
Post body?

A well executed sub-threshold workout is better than sex

>>76522602
that looks clean as fuck

>>76519404
Such a ridiculous sport. When you have to place so many restrictions on what you can and can't do, what's the point? This is why running is so pure, you just run

>>76513446
This is completely made up. Why do midwits not understand AI gives you slop

new to rooning, I expect pain from using muscles I don't hit often, but are my shins supposed to fucking suffer like this? It's been none stop for like three weeks

>>76522968
Your form is probably off and you're probably running too hard

>>76522968
stop actually running and begin jogging slowly
>b-but i look like a geriatric, i wanna go fast
stop actually running and begin jogging slowly

>>76522980
>>76523126
Ok, ill try to work on my form and run slower. I feel like it's been at a slow pace, but maybe not.

>>76523209
Run as slow as possible, and I mean AS SLOW AS POSSIBLE. It might not even feel like running but like the other anon said, like jogging. Find a beginner program and follow it, you'll naturally get faster gradually

Just bought into the jewish hype and bought some puma fast r 3's at £260, any anons have experiences with them in races?

new, what does sub-threshold mean?

Core is core. If you're coming from a sedentary, unathletic lifestyle I cannot recommend this routine enough.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DHD1-2P94DI

Core strength is essential to form, essential to preventing injury anywhere along the kinetic chain e.g. knees, even some stomach cramps, and doing this routine instead of crunches or planks will actually teach your body athletic movement.

Every day for a month! Maybe every non-run day! If you can't complete, reduce the time or add rests but don't remove the exercise! I swear!

Next fix you ass, hamstrings, and lower back, but one thing at a time! You really won't believe how your body is capable of moving.

>>76523323
It means a 6-7 effort

>>76522968
I've been running for like a month and so far my shins are good, maybe it's because I do intervals instead of just running and used to power walk with weighted vest, knees on other hand...

>>76523323
A state just below your second lactate threshold, typically a 5-6/10 on the RPE scale. A comfortably hard effort where your body is producing lactate but not enough to cause significant fatigue.

A Japanese elite marathoner (3:00/km) I follow just posted his easy run for today and you're STILL running your easy runs at 4:50/km anon?

>>76523323
>new, what does sub-threshold mean?
In the broadest sense, it’s zone3 running.

Not quite an easy pace, but not really hammering either. It builds aerobic capacity and trains the body to process lactate more efficiently.

The Norwegian method holds that this pace should take up about a quarter of your weekly mileage.

>>76523519
Now lets see anons easy pace

>>76523310
>Just bought into the jewish hype and bought some puma fast r 3's at £260, any anons have experiences with them in races?
Very fast, but I’ve never liked how incredibly unstable Pumas feel. They’re all like that and the Fast-R is the same.
The rocketed sole also feels odd.
But yeah, very light and very fast.

a normal person quite literally doesn't need "more" than a 30min 5k/1h 10k

>>76523678
Who wants to be normal, though? Normal people are slobs.

>>76523678
A normal person needs to perform less than normal?

>>76513268 (OP)
what do when I have LCL issues that keep flaring up? I've been running for years, but I've only gotten these issues the last few months. Physical therapy, rest, and C25k help a bit, but the pain just keeps coming back.

Almost 2 months in from couch and did my first 5k yesterday. The next goal is 10k I guess but I'm not sure what kind of training regimen I should switch to. I'd try NSA but since I'm 200lbs (5'10") I don't want to run 6 days a week yet.

Up until now i've just been winging it, track running every other day, and every other session adding half a mile of hiit on top of that. More than 3mi on the track is beginning to bore me though. There's a running path i want to switch to now that's a long gradual incline but I'm hesitant because idk how to program it. Am i overthinking it and should just roon? Do i need to buy a heart rate monitor?

>>76523776
A minimally competent HR monitor makes it much easier to track and manage your progression, so yes.

>>76519440
Xia Sining
She exclusively copulates with Indian men, sorry whitey.

>>76523819
I was worried about that. Are there any good ones that don't require participating in an ecosystem of invasive spyware?

Actually can't wait to start cutting again. Can't stand eating so much food.

>>76523856
polar h10 is the gold standard. It's bluetooth, you can hook it up to any app or watch

>>76523829
this beautiful East Asian goddess has never touched brown skin, not one time in her entire life

>>76523897
Thank you

How bad/hard is 14000 feet elevation?
Can you prepare for it at sea level? I have literally no mountains around me in 1000KM range.

>>76523973
14k? You're fucked.

>>76523980
I found Leadville Trail Marathon and just was wondering.
I am looking for a semi-challenging marathon next year, been to US couple times and I've always wanted to see Colorado.

Feeling like dogshit bros. Missed my long roon this past Monday, not sure if I'm gonna make it tomorrow. I'm so sleep deprived. Any hacks for getting to sleep faster?

>>76523897
>Amazfit T-Rex 3
>Polar H10
I wonder if this is a good combo
Garmin are obscenely expensive where I live (T-Rex 3 costs the same as a Forerunner 55)

>>76523973
You would have to wear one of those things that restrict your breathing in order to simulate the lack of oxygen

>>76523678
A normal person should be able to do those times with zero training, you are correct

>>76524035
lmao

>>76524052
They're a real thing bro, you can pretend you're Bane

>>76524048
not a chance

how the fuck do people maintain 4:__m/km pace for 20-40 km
this was an easy run but 5:00m/km is slow as fuck, nothing to be proud of

>>76524048
Don't be silly, fren

>>76524019
Most people who want a cheap fitness watch go with a Coros

>>76524002
no food 3 hours before bed
no screen 1 hour before bed
read boring book in your bed until you fall asleep
point 3 is what I do every evening. been reading that shitty book for 2.5 years, not even kidding

>>76524063
If you can't fathom how people can run at 4:xy/km for a long period of time then 5:00/km is certainly not your easy run pace, and your heartrate seems to back that up as well.

>>76524061
and you can pretend they work

>>76524074
I read books I really like is the issue I suppose

>>76524079
wtf do you want my heart rate to be when running for 20 km? 130? that's normal, especially at 28°C
easy = could do more
hard run = absolute limits

>>76524086
yes definitely
this book (cinema speculation by quentin tarantino) is so fucking boring, I sometimes fall asleep after 1.5 pages

I signed up for Tokyo marathon.
I hear the odds are extremely low.

>>76524095
LOL, I should try rereading Les Mis, that book fucking SUCKED. Genuinely took close to 2 years to finish, and I was only reading it out of spite to say that I did read it.

>>76523973
it'll probably increase your time by like 15%, that's not including actual elevation (like up and down hills) which leadville courses are pretty famous for.

You can do an altitude compensation in the advanced features dropdown here: https://vdoto2.com/calculator/

>>76524035
Those don't work you need to spend at least 10 hours a day at altitude to get a benefit. There are 'altitude tents' that you can sleep in but I hear they are noisy and humid and basically ruin your sleep quality so they are rarely worth it.

>>76524068
>Pace 3 costs 2x more than T-Rex 3
Damn, looks like I'm shit out of luck in my third world
Going to wait until black friday anyway, but I'm most likely going to have to settle for the Amazfit even if they are the worst option

>>76524118
I wouldn't say you need a watch if you don't want one. I've been running for years and just run with my phone and house keys. My Polar H10 connects to my phone via bluetooth through a free android app I like to use (RunnerUp). I run with a flipbelt (you can get cheaper knockoffs). I run with headphones and just have runnerup give me audio cues like every 5 minutes for pace and heart rate and distance. You can set pace or heart rate goals in the app and it will tell you if you go outside of the range.

>>76514785
Ann Arbor?

>>76524095
Easy = easy enough to recover for the next hard run, you aren't recovering to run a hard effort tomorrow on 167 average bpm in the heat.
Unless you're not running tomorrow in which case disregard what I said, but now you have your answer as to why people can run faster for longer than you - they run more days per week.

>>76514785
This seems to be a common pattern for you. Weren't you doing that same run along the Hudson, got injured/burned out and quit for like a year?

>>76524063
>average heart rate 167bpm
>this was an easy run
anon... I...
nevermind.

don't be upset my easy is your hard

>>76524147
Yeah, the plan was indeed to go watch + monitor so I could keep my phone at home, for some reason phone with audio cues + monitor didn't cross my mind at all
That might just work fine for me, thanks for the suggestion

I got this book Easy Interval Method and it's pretty cool, seems quite similar to norwegians singles approach and has a ton of room for flexibility
whoever said that it was just interval sessions every day and that it wasn't sustainable has definitely not read the book, I won't go into details but that is not the gist of this training method at all, quite the opposite
he preaches sub-threshold paces
basically what I gathered is the difference between this and NSA is more interval days (if you're far enough into training, like several years of running under your belt, otherwise it's like 2-3 sessions per week and even suggests for novices to do 30 seconds of running 1 minute of walking for a few months)
I lost my train of thought
anyways, the sessions are shorter and longest rep would be 2km which is only recommended for advanced runners, otherwise its 100m, 200m, 400m, 1km
at easish paces and more recovery than working time
ie. you run 200m at your 3km pace then you walk 200m for recover and repeat that for 10-15 times
then take a day or 2 to rest, which could also be filled in with easy (low zone 2) runs on rest days with a 30s speed surge every 1km or so
basically just advocates against long slow steady runs to keep the muscles reactive and fast but never overloading them and never building up too much lactic acid
smooth n fast
gonna give it a go
thanks for reading my book review blog

>>76524035
*Unzips* take this thing that will restrict your oxygen

>>76524256
>doesn't understand the concept of hard
you shared a threshold run, by definition
easy run would be in the 120-140bpm range, what you did is not that, even if you could go harder, I mean of course you could, just because it isn't an all out effort doesn't mean it's easy
you're just being ignorant and stubborn and that is not a good attitude for making progress
continue doing your thing though, by all means!

>>76524063
Some people are just naturally gifted

I've been avoiding warm ups because I thought they would drain my stamina. Did a warm up and ran faster and easier than ever before.

>>76524283
HUH

>>76524297
it is always the other way around to me
i hate warming up because it actually saps stamina meant for the main run

>>76524311
You're running too fast during your warm up.

>>76524294
more like some people run for years and put in the time/effort and don't push it too hard in order to avoid injuries but get maximum mileage in
most of these people who are "naturally gifted" just ran track in school

>>76524279
Does it give you any physiological reasoning behind running the intervals at the random paces and lengths beyond broscience like
>basically just advocates against long slow steady runs to keep the muscles reactive and fast but never overloading them and never building up too much lactic acid

The reason NSA works for so many people is it perfectly balances stress and load on a tight schedule (1 hour per day). People have tried over the last two years to come up with a better weekly schedule on 5-8 hours that can generate more load without eventually falling into a fatigue hole and all have failed.

>usecase for hard running: none
>usecase for easy running: stronger cardiovascular system, doubled longevity, lasting forever in bed
Really makes you think, doesn't it, hardtards?

1000kcal deficit this week, did a fasted 5 mile run. +30s to my pace. Man that didn't feel good at all.

>>76524288
>run
>120-140bpm

>>76524397
>Does it give you any physiological reasoning behind running the intervals at the random paces and lengths beyond broscience like
idk I skimmed through the whole book in about 15 mins over coffee this morning to be perfectly honest
that was the gist of what I got from it
perhaps NSA is a more perfected and fine-tuned program but this is an old style of training that dutch athletes have been using for decades that is quite similar to NSA - that was the point I was trying to make with my rambling nonsense

>i'm lazy
we know

>>76524410
yes, on a flat surface one should be able to maintain a zone 2 heart rate while running 5-6min/km
I don't know the heart rate of the japanese runner here >>76523519
but I wouldn't be surprised if it was under 110 (depending on terrain)

>i'm a depressed sexless twink
we know

lol found the woman

>>76524412
But it's completely different from NSA, the only thing they share is intervals lmao
>3k pace
This is way way faster than anything in NSA, far from "easy"
>200m with 200m walkjog recovery
This is never going to be long enough of a sustained effort to get you close to subthreshold state

I don't care if people do EIM, do whatever you want, but I keep seeing people peddling nonsense that it's basically the same as NSA when they are completely different.

>>76524399
Depending on where you live, fast running is a very useful skill to have

>>76524547
or have a fast draw

I'm at the point where I'm running about 17.5 miles per week (3.5 miles M-F) and I want to keep increasing distance but I'm a slow runner so that 3.5 miles takes me about an hour

I'd like to get faster so I can squeeze more distance into a shorter amount of time, should I do something like replacing two days a week with a shorter but faster run and keep dialing up the distance on those days?

>>76524622
How difficult are the 3.5 mile runs for you?

I would recommend increasing the time you run, and not worry as much about hitting a strict mileage. The mileage will increase as you get faster, given the same time spent running.

>10 weeks out from marathon
>Right knee giving out warning signals
>No outright pain yet
I know I need to cut back a bit, but I'm afraid I'll cut back too much and waste too much time, or cut back too little then have to cut back more next week and lose even more time. I'm also afraid I won't cut back at all and repeat what I did last year (hurt my knee 6 weeks out and not be able to fix it in time). Halp.

>>76524755
Reduce intensity but keep volume and see how it feels in a week

>>76524755
Cut back now. Ten weeks is plenty of time. Better to rest early in the block than when you’re scheduled for 18-20 mile runs.

>>76524771
ChatGPT said keep the intensity but cut back on the volume. Whom to believe?

>>76524673
Fairly easy but not to the point where it's like walking

Essentially how I got to this point was doing C25K and then bridge to 10K and that ended up with me running for a set hour at my current pace and I end up doing 3.5 miles instead of 10K

But if it would be better to just increase the time I'm running instead of going for more speed then I could try that

>>76524788
I always find intensity a much bigger contributor to injury risk over volume. When building a base after some time off I have no trouble going from 0km to 60km/week of slow easy runs in 2-3 weeks, but the moment I add in slightly too much speedwork I start to feel the niggles.

So working in reverse it makes sense to reduce the speed of workouts (or turn them into easy runs) before cutting back on volume.

>>76524788
Whoever gpt scrapped that answer from is retarded
I mean, you can literally experience it yourself

Ran a 1:39 half in May and have been adding mileage and speed work since. How to pace for a 3:22 marathon I October? I'm thinking 8:00/mi with the 3:30 pacer for 13, then doing 5 and 5 and 7:40 and 7:20... and then all out for 3.2? Honestly I'm terrified not having a pacer faster than 3:30... my best marathon is 3:43 with no base or speed work a year ago, for reference

>>76524958
The only thing that changes it up is if there are big elevation changes over the course. But overall I’d say overall try and keep your pace fairly consistent maybe at most go from 3:25 for half and then aim for a 3:20 pace after that with a last mile-ish all you got left. Unless your training block is bad, or you have an injury, I think you got 3:22 based on your half time. One thing I found is my second marathon was a lot easier than my first despite being faster because I had done one. Kind of a mental thing. I went from 3:48 to 3:11 in about 18 months.

>>76522602
>better than sex
I wouldn't know.

>>76525096
y?

>>76525077
Checked. Yeah my mental is shot on this one already, I don't know what I'm capable of come race day. I've nearly tripled by mileage and have added intervals and hills... but you just don't know until you're out there

>>76525118
I have never had sex.

>>76524434
They need to show their flatties.

>>76525136
You have to be 18 to post.

>most of /fit/ lifts for girls, doesn't get it
>/roon/ just roons, gets girlfriends effortlessly despite skeletal figure
Really noggles of boggles.

>>76524798
As long as it isn't too hard at the moment then you could add some faster sessions. Find a training plan that has your general time spent running and some easy/hard days throughout the week.

You will probably find that if you add hard days, you'll need to run your easier days even easier to properly recover. That means a 1 hour run but you might not complete 3.5 miles. That's OK, very easy running is still good for you and will lead to improvements. If you find yourself fatigued day after day or you are starting to get injured, you'll know your combination of volume + intensity is too much for you. Back off until you've found the training load you can handle.

>>76525174
>/roon/ just roons, gets girlfriends effortlessly despite skeletal figure
Source?

>>76525194
>>76525136

Lifters of /fit/
>will running kill my gains?
Rooners of /fit/
>will lifting kill my gains?

>>76523973
>>76524035
>>76524052

>>76522602
What are those gaps? You stop moving?

>Pain in the fleshy part of my lower quad right above and on the inside of my knee (vastus medialis I guess)
>fitness is great, can run 10 miles right now but can barely do anything without discomfort

Is it over?

>>76525230
interval training

>>76525230
1 minute rest between reps yes

>>76525301
how out of shape are you that you need to take such frequent breaks?

>>76525357
Intervals are designed to keep your heartrate in the target zone. In this run I wanted to stay under my lactate threshold to prioritise recovery. I could run at that speed for the entire workout but then I would creep over my threshold defeating the entire purpose of the workout.

>how out of shape are you that you need to take such frequent breaks
See picrel

>>76525224
This isn't AI, right?

fresh bread
>>76525504
>>76525504
>>76525504

>>76525418
you can just say yes

>>76525459
seems way to consistent to be ai generated.

>>76525553
That's why I'm scurred

>>76522968
get a tib bar
also make sure you're getting the knees up and taking longer strides. can still be slow per step, but get the foot further in front of you.

>>76526107
Whats a tib bar

>>76526130
tibialis anterior strengthening device for weights. better than tib raises imo.

https://a.co/d/aBd1Ng5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOU18lRJmYo