*kills xorg and all the forks*
*forces you to use wayland*
heh, nothing personnel, kid

>>105572951 (OP)
qrd?

stop clinging to abbandonware, it's over
move on

>>105572963
What makes you think that being abandonware is a metric?

Usecase for moving on?

Wayland is the Windows 11 of Linux
X11 is the Windows 1.0.

Nigger, Wayland was created in 2008. By people who could not stand to try to fix X11 anymore.
Now that Xorg is completely dead, one of the few people left "maintaining it" decided to fork it because he is a schizo and blames the whole world for not going back.
GNOME already had planned to drop support for X11 5 years ago.

>>105573042
xorg is de-ACK!

>>105573076
>Thanks to Mozilla's Telemetry capabilities
Rapture can't come fast enough.

>>105573076
Most Firefox numbers online are actually bots running Selenium containers. Yeah, they are not using Wayland, but should you care about some retarded bots?

>>105573102
do you have better stats?

>>105573147
I am just telling you. Don't trust data from firefox.
If you want to get into the rabbit hole, message the telemetry team and ask how many of them had the geckodriver being used.
Firefox is great for browser automation because you can disable a shitload of things that Chromium doesn't think of allowing. I would not be surprised if they just said that 80% of all internet traffic with Firefox user agents are literally just bots.

>>105573201
freetards don't care it's literally a cult of people to grift

>>105573076
If the majority is silent, the minorities will win.

>>105573201
a smart anon, on this tech/loli/gy consumer board??

>>105573042
And some years after 2008, almost all performance issues of Xorg were fixed with DRI3. But wayland was "teh future" of soiboys who didn't want to lose their waymeme/feetfag jobs so they had to pretend to make something better than X.

GNOME apps still have no drag and drop support
GNOME media players and even their document reader can't open anything except indexed files inside a special folder of the user

>>105573301
I agree with ebussi here. Drag and drop from archive, like what? Nitpicking imo. Especially since windows explorer and archive tools are complete shit.

>>105573331
Yeah, who has ever dragged a file or folder out of a zip to extract it? No, everyone should use the shitty file picker and manually navigate to the destination folder instead even if it's open in the file manager already. makes total sense. Yeah.

>>105573301
>usecase?
I thought it was a meme but he does the same thing on every fucking issue, it kinda pisses me off.

>>105573301
can you not right click extract to.. ?
are freetards really this far behind windows (1998)

>>105573042
So fixing is more time consuming than reinventing the wheel? How does that make any sense? Wayland is still not ready after almost 20 years. Use your fucking head man.

I fucking hate these autists.

>>105573541
You can, but sometimes you want to check the contents of a file and then extract only the files you need, I do that all the time on winblows, so why hasn't linux figured it out?

who the fuck are these weirdos
why are they in charge?

yeah, good tech died 10 years ago

and these fucks remove all the good versions from archives by publishing 100 updates a year

pieces of shit

>>105573301
>GNOME apps still have no drag and drop support
da fuck are you talking about?

>>105573590
Now try the same with file-roller, or gnome books, or gnome music, or what their video player is called

>>105573578
even valve shits on gnome

>>105572961
*farts in your mouth*

>>105573594
Based Drew

Mmmmm sorry anon, but I'm still going to keep using wayland because I clicked that when I set up linux on my machine for the first time randomly.
And yes I don't know where the difference lies nor do I care.

>>105573590
I think what they meant is this. If you use the "archive manger" like file-roller, ark, engrampa, xarchiver, even though they look like file manager, you can't drag and drop from them to Nautilus file manager.
That's it. I think.

>>105573588
>pieces of shit

*BRRRAAAAAPPPPPPS on your software*

>>105573594
Is he the creator of mpv?

>>105573684
hes the creator of

*BRRRAAAAAAAPPP*

>>105572961
>xorg effectively owned by redhat
>redhat want to push wayland
>lowkey trying to kill xorg
>independent spic dev making over 60% of commits
>all other devs hate the guy because he's effectively keeping it alive
>spic has enough and creates his own open fork
>specifically forbids DEI
>homos, trannys and paedos (but I repeat myself) seethe biblically
>they ban him from xorg, close all his open PRs
>gnome and ubuntu decide to drop xorg and go full wayland days later
Basically it's made wayland look like a cult or corporate plot.

>>105573697
kek

>>105573697
ew wtf. why are these spergs so allergic to looking normal.

>>105573612
works fine.

>>105573706
>independent spic
>Enrico Weigelt
This is why no one takes /g/ seriously.

>>105572951 (OP)
Wayland is better in every single way tell me ONE reason to use xorg over wayland

>6 years ago
>still no way to set up PPPoE in the feetfag gui
Note that this has worked in the past and was just removed because feetfags all use gnome on laptops and in VMs and don't know what pppoe is.

>>105573732
Don't get me started with evince with its insane defaults, and not to mention the replacement, Papers, which is one of the shittiest software I've ever used.
Okular is ugly as fuck, but it's functional.

>>105573761
Wayland apps have no color picker from anywhere from the desktop

>>105573787
Code one

>>105573787
This is the more secure way to do computing. You wouldn't get it because you're a Nazi.

>>105573732
Die schwarze Katze grieft mich an.
Meine auto ist kaputt.
Ich brauche Hilfe, wo ist der Taxistand

>>105573808
It would require access to the display contents. Waymeme apps don't have access to is because of """""security"""""
The workaround is to kindly beg the developers of each fucking DE to implement such a thing for you with permission control, and feetfags just refuse most of those because they don't care and use mac os.

>9070 XT with latest MESA on X11 is literally unusable

>>105573914
Source?

>>105573937
The source is me. Whenever I move the mouse plasmashell freezes. It continues immediately if I stop moving the mouse. Can be a KDE thing. No issue on Wayland. Also maybe 9070 XT is too early for MESA yet.

you will use the wayland bloody benchod sir!

>>105573914
>AMD gpu

>>105573849
It's fucking funny how they use this excuse muh "security" when their end goal is to make Linux into another corpo product with little to none privacy.

>>105574185
Their endgoal is to make linux unusable.
Gnome gets to control and sabotage all GTK apps, they get paid by redhat to do basically nothing (can't have bugs if there are no features or users who notice bugs), and are paid underhand by microsoft to do a shitty job.

>>105573961
>plasmashell
kde doesn't care about x11 session, they haven't worked on kwin-x11 for a long time. just use xfce.

>>105573893
>I'm more of a cat person
Jesus these guys are such enormous faggots.

>>105574373
>[giantfaggot] locked this issue.
;)

GIMP has had no circle tool for 23 years.

>>105573542
It was a bloated piece of shit. X11 had allowed companies to "contribute" by their modelus directly into xorg. Like, imagine nvidia wants to run nice on linux, they just rewrite the whole thing to work with nvidia, and only nvidia and git commit -m "looks good, radesh~". Now any software that wants to use this improvements need to use that api, and if you want to work with amd, you need to use their api, and so go on IN THE SAME SOFTWARE. It was a nightmare for developers.
Mistakes were made, there was no way to correct it, and they decided that the right thing would be drag the sickman of free software to the back of the sheed and give a shoot bettwen their eyes. Now a bunch of faggots are diging their corpses and holding it up saying, heyyy it's look very alive to me, look, it moved a finger. good enoght for production!!!!

>>105572951 (OP)
Do you know what xorg REALLY needs?
A Rust rewrite.

>>105572951 (OP)
This dude is being posted son much here, he should honestly be in the sticky.

what's the use case doe

>>105575470
>tricking the rustfags into keeping xorg alive by rewriting it in rust to own the chuds
Sounds like a plan.

>>105574420
it's an overrated shape

>>105572951 (OP)
use case for xorg?

>>105573076
Unfortunately firefox is even more dead than X

>>105572951 (OP)
Usecase for X11?

>>105573509
If a real human had a real usecase. He would submit the patch he made on his own copy of the free software.

>>105573594
broken clocks and all that

>>105573914
First time? amdgpu is unusable for at least the first six months of any release.

The goal is capturing people who just "install Linux" with all the default options (which is inevitably going to hand them a GNOME + Wayland DE) so that GNOME will have the clout and userbase that instead of fixing their software they can file tickets on OTHER projects that you can't do what you're doing because you're breaking Wayland and wouldn't it be a shame if our huge userbase all couldn't run your project and kept opening these stupid tickets on it? You may as well switch to GNOMELand personally and test on GNOME at every step because that's the only way to make us stop

What has been done to open source by groups I don't understand for reasons I can only speculate? Maybe 10 years from now you'll need a GNOME Account with a phone number to access web services through GNOMEnet and only signed software can be run on GNOME, like what else could they be planning? What does Redhat WANT

>>105573706
How does one go about forbidding homosexuality and DEI in ones OS project

>>105575454
Wasn't that X11 back in the 1990s? Xorg wasnt like that

What? It's free software (free as in beer)

>>105575470
>>105575650
That's an idea

>>105577053
https://plusnigger.org/

>>105573641
>

>>105577544
kek

>>105572951 (OP)
how are they gonna force me when it doesn't even work on my desktop environment?

>>105577774
You’ll see.

>>105577788
will I though? I think I'll stick with x11

>>105573706
>Banning anything from open source project
Cant blame him too hard, he is ESL, probably doesnt know what the words even mean

>>105572951 (OP)
Based
>captcha: M0G X AV

>>105573706
Valve wants to push this garbage. They always did, for more than ten years now.

>>105572951 (OP)
He hasn't "killed" the fork and can't, all he can do is whine about it.
If the fork fails it will be because it couldn't attract enough help, it's much too big a project for one man.

>>105573590
so you are the kind of mongoloid that posts it just werks on my machine when you didn't even understand the original post.

>>105572951 (OP)
>>105575555
>>105576267
use case for computers? I strongly encourage you to engage in a minimum of empathy towards people who do not have computers.

>>105573634
Curious to know the context behind this post because on the surface it looks fucking dumb.

X11 for 100 years. X11 in space. X11 in alpha centauri. X11 in tau ceti. X11 for 100,000,000,000 years. X11 until the heat death of the universe. X11 is faustian, nietzschean, apollonian, hyperborean, agarthan, aryan, and atlantian. X11 is god's gift to the world. wayland can't even compete

EX11PLICIT EX11PERT, THE HIGHLY EX11ALTED
I EX11ERCISE DANCE FLOORS, LEAVE 'EM EX11HAUSTED
EX11PLORING APEX11 SOUND EX11PEDITION
FILLED WITH EX11CESS DEMONS, Y'ALL CAN BRING THE EX11ORCISM
I EX11ERT STRESS WHEN I EX11PORT BEATS
THAT EX11HILARATE THE HEART AND EX11TERMINATE THE WEAK
EX11ECUTION-LEVEL NEX11T, NO WAY TO EX11PLAIN IT
I'M X11X11X11, BITCH, TRIPLE-X11 RATED

>>105572963
no
t. openbox user

>>105572951 (OP)
>tfw you have had white boi sex for the 100th time today.

>>105572951 (OP)
You don't need that, you don't need this, you don't need these, you don't need those

>>105572951 (OP)
Still not using Wayland.
I tried it last time, like 2 months ago with KDE, and the shit crapped itself faster than a senile grandpa fed with laxatives.

>>105579770
bASED

>>105579837
Use case for keyboard and screen?

>>105573042
>>105572963

I wouldnt even have a problem with wayland if it wasn't a total piece of shit, Today I actually gave my yearly wayland session test for KDE, and at first Its like
>Ok this isn't too bad everything seems to work
then about 2 hours in , the entire session locks up, and I can't even get into TTY, like wtf Is problem with these people, I WOULD EVEN REPORT THE BUG IF I COULD, but there Is absolutely NOTHING in the logging, and I can't even kill the process because it eats the gpu completely.

DO I SERIOUSLY NEED A FUCKING SERIAL DEBUGGER LIKE ITS 1995, like holy shit.

I have no idea what's the difference between X11 and Wayland, I began using Linux this march. I'm using X11 because when I tried running Skyrim with Wayland which was default it went black screen as if I turned it off. Switching to X11 fixed this. Also anydesk works only with X11 last I checked.

the state of the graphical stack on linux (x11 abandoned and rotting, wayland STILL MISSING CORE FEATURES LIKE COLOR MANAGEMENT AND HDR) made me go back to windows and I honestly never looked back.
Doing development with WSL is fine enough.
Even if they fix all the wrongs with wayland I'm never going back because the attitude screams we hate our users even more than any other developer of popular software.
You get what you paid for with freetards, /g/.

>>105580168
nvidia actually proposed an extension for HDR way back in 2017 for xorg, but it didn't go anywhere by GUESS WHO, it wouldn't even really be that hard since all of the xorg video drivers already support 10bit color.

These people would rather keep masturbating on a flawed pile of crap for 15 years instead of improving existing working software, because it would make them look like morons, I have no love for X11, but This shit is fucking ridiculous. They need to re draft the whole thing and have actually competent people in charge to make sure shit gets done in a timely manner.

>>105580168
Linux desktop is definitely a failed experiment. I have little hope this os will ever become relevant.

>>105573076
>feb 2022
>firefox enabled wayland by default in december 2023
>10% of people actively opted into firefox wayland
it'd be fun to compare to current stats, but this is only proof that barely anyone changes default settings.

>>105579837
>Why? Who needs it?
The person who brought it up in the issue???
>>105580016
yeah as you can see the difference is that one of them actually functions

>>105575454
i still am unable to use wayland after the 20 years of hard work on it

What's wrong with wayland?
Is it that you are afraid it will become standard and redhat and other corps push stuff that is bad or is wayland how it's designed bad?
Genuine question on why /g/ seethe so hard when it's about Wayland.

>>105580296
try using a hdr monitor with a properly functioning OS like Windows or macOS, compare the experience with linux and you will understand why. All freetards working on the graphic stack froze up new development for the sake of their wayland pet project, leading to a huge time period of X11 receiving no major update while wayland was a work in progress (guess how long it took before you could even do screen recording on wayland?) meanwhile the rest of the world uses OSes that don't even make you think about the fucking graphic stack, they just work.

>>105580296
It throws out everything, including what was good about Xorg, the maintainers like masturbating for years on features that should be merged in a couple weeks, and after >15 years pretty well every compositor i've used is unstable enough that if you have a nonstandard configuration you will experience crashes., and thus it is unsuitable as a replacement..

>>105580326
>hdr monitor
moot point.

>>105580348
>It throws out everything, including what was good about Xorg, the maintainers like masturbating for years on features that should be merged in a couple weeks
Such as?

X user arguments:
>feature/software N doesn't work on wayland so I can't use it, sorry!

wayland user arguments:
>works on my computer
>usecase?
>just learn to code, fix it yourself
>...blame nvidia!

I FUCKING TOLD YOU GRUBBIES THAT THIS WOULD HAPPEN BUT YOU DIDN'T LISTEN YOU SAID LILO SUCKED
WELL I SAY THAT YOU GET WHAT YOU FUCKING DESERVE

>>105580359
things working

>>105580359
having a Display server is a good thing, means that you share alot of common code like display handling, inputs ect, wayland basically forces everything on to the compositor, which means that every compositor has to chase different bugs, and little code is shared, solutions like Wlroots did eventually form, but gnome and kde do not use it, so you end up with more bugs and more work across the entire ecosystem.

>>105573301
Why ESL are be like speaking thus?

>>105580350
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/14

this is a merge request that should have taken a few months at most, yet it was merge just 3 months ago. it took so long that valve used a hacky workaround to get hdr working 2 years ago, and kde had time to implement the same thing.

It was not just required for hdr , but for all color management.
it is emblematic of the general problem with wayland

>>105580392
That's gnome and KDE's fault. Nobody forced them to behave like autists

>>105580360
sooner or later this won't even be a topic as the linux desktops die for lack of new contributors as the current boomers with terrible taste have chased away all their users, including the would be developers
it's surviving on red hat's fumes and red hat doesn't want to fund the linux desktop anymore, a process that started two years ago ( https://www.hadess.net/2023/08/new-responsibilities.html?m=1 ) and that hasn't shown any signs of stopping ( https://www.osnews.com/story/142467/flatpak-not-being-actively-developed-anymore/ )
all the gnome/wayland/systemd/red hat subhuman trash are leaving but no one will fill that hole

>>105580415
wlroots didn't exist when they started and there was no consensus, so no its not their fault. its like this by design.

>>105573301
how do people actually use gnome unironically

>>105580440
it has sane defaults and just works ootb.

>>105580440
>how do people actually use gnome unironically
You need to understand. This is the average GNOME user.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYbpEQnR-1U
>laptop
>simple screen recorder
>OBS too complex to understand
>but somehow wants to be on linux & GNOME 3+
footfags are a paradox.

>>105580423
>https://www.hadess.net/2023/08/new-responsibilities.html?m=1
i dont use any of those programs
>https://www.osnews.com/story/142467/flatpak-not-being-actively-developed-anymore/
just yesterday actually i went full anti flatpak and uninstalled it all, shit takes up so much space and updates so slowly
sorry anon but ill keep using my loonix desktops

>>105580485
>shit takes up so much space and updates so slowly
not really, once you download the SDK, packages are the same size. it's actually much more efficient when it comes to updates because it does diff updates instead of overwriting everything.

>>105580206
It’s a server or embedded OS, it was never meant to be a desktop because OSS cannot produce a singular vision that a desktop requires
Too many catfights rewritting their own version of the same tool

>>105580485
I didn't use flatpaks either when I was a linux user, but this is another tell sign of red hat dropping linux desktop development entirely because flatpak became the only way on their distro to install most software, they do not package an office suite in RHEL anymore for example.
you can be autistic all you want but most of the stack on linux was under red hat control and normal people aren't interested in cobbling together something out of shell scripts and i3 or dwm
most software uses gtk and gtk is pretty much the gnome toolkit (rather than the gimp toolkit, which, by the way, struggled for a long time transitioning to gtk 3)

>>105580440
The bussy commands us

this is your mind on freetard software

>>105580520
The new Linux desktop will soon be there; prepare yourself for ads based computing.

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/06/developer-preview-enhanced-android-desktop-experiences-connected-displays.html?m=1

>>105580564
no glibc, no gnu utils, no wayland, no libinput, no gtk, no guh nome or KKKDE, no xlib
sounds like heaven
when can I give that ads based computing a try?

>>105580548
What the flip are you talking about? It works fine.

>>105580548
>oh no a bug, better make a vid so i can immortalize it instead of reporting it
works on my machine.

>>105580434
They could've worked together to make something like wlroots

>>105580638
>GNOME platform libraries are primarily written in C, and provide a machine-readable description of their API and ABI through GObject-Introspection. This means that C is the “default” platform language, and that the upstream documentation for each library typically references C, but it is possible to use multiple programming languages to write applications for GNOME.
Pretty sure the KDE guys wouldn't want to switch from C++ to C.

>>105580638
You don't seem to understand its by design, there is no display server period, there was never intended to be shared code, wlroots is basically a project that does all the basic stuff for you, so you don't have to do it yourself, what it provides is not part of wayland.

>>105580600
>>105580564
lol

>>105580608
that new behavior looks even more atrocious, it's resizing the window underneath the dialog really? also not a bug it was from a previous gnome version and sorry I don't keep up with freetard insanity and retarded design choices
preference dialogs shouldn't be modal and snapping to begin with

>>105580669
>there was never intended to be shared code
True but the major DEs could've made the decision to share code anyway. Crazy, right?

>>105573102
>>105573201
This doesn't include selenium

>>105580689
dunno, i just open prefs and do a two finger touchpad swipe for a nice browser-style scroll to the bit i want.
>preference dialogs shouldn't be modal
wat

>>105580696
>major DEs could've made the decision to share code anyway
https://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/3685
>In the upcoming GNOME 3 we won't be supporting notification area icons (status icons). Instead we will support persistence of notification bubbles. So that if a bubble is missed or not acted upon an icon will be added to a queue and provide basic equivalence to what status icons are today.
>Transmission has an option in the Desktop tab of the preferences to "Show Transmission icon in the notification area". This should probably be removed.
>I guess you have to decide if you are a GNOME app, an Ubuntu app, or an XFCE app unfortunately. I'm sorry that this is the case but it wasn't GNOME's fault that Ubuntu has started this fork. And I have no idea what XFCE is or does sorry.
These are the people you expect to "share code" with? they can't cooperate with a larger ecosystem gnome devs should have been aborted at birth

>>105580729
Imagine wanting to share code with KDE though
>>105570513

>>105580696
you're basically talking about making an entirely new spec that both compositors can use. this is basically an admission that wayland is at a minimum incomplete, or at worst a terrible design

>>105580689
>it's resizing the window underneath the dialog really?
you got that backwards, you can't resize the dialog anymore by default, but resizing the window resizes the dialog.

>>105580696
"No, no, no—why should the single entity responsible for display server development bother to do their job?" Let everyone, depending on their job, do it for them!"

We really should be treating Waylanders like Hitler was treating Jews. You people are INFESTATION on Linux.

>>105580548
Just don’t use gnome. It’s literally made by retards for retards.

>>105580729
>opened 15 years ago
anon 90% of the board wasn't even alive then and everyone involved in that issue has retired

>>105580696
under X this is what we had, IHVs could write their xserver video drivers to support their products, Xserver handled the clients and was maintained by everybody, and every project could write their own compositor to their needs without touching anything critical and low level, Now by no means was X great, at a technical level it has a lot of problems, but this layout is good or at least better for collaboration,

where as wayland is basically " RTFM and go fuck yourself"

>>105580781
15 years and the dev culture has absolutely never changed, nothing is more resilient than the red hat pest

>>105580823
their stuff
>works
their competitor's stuff
>krashes
simple as. 15 years and nobody dethroned them.

There is a reason that openSUSE defaults to Plasma but SUSE Linux Enterprise defaults to GNOME.

>>105581135
Oh wait, openSUSE *has no default desktop*.
https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Desktop_FAQ

That means that EVERY major distribution that has a default desktop defaults to GNOME.

>>105580818
>" RTFM and go fuck yourself"
That sounds dangerously Linux.

>>105581135
What’s the reason?

>>105581166
Despite KDE features, GNOME is overall the better desktop.

>>105581180
It sure doesn't look that way looking from afar. Gnome looks like a huge pile of asinine design decisions. It's probably more stable than KDE though.

>>105581180
isn't because the Qt license prevent you to make commercial product?

>>105581119
>their competitor's stuff
it's not "gnome or use the other bad linux DE that have less apps or depend on gtk and are thus still dependent on retarded gnome designs"
it's "I can just drop linux and use Windows or macOS which are much superior options not made by and for autists"

even miguel de icaza. one of gnome founders. has moved on from this freetard shit
never forget that the other linux shit having less users than gnome doesn't mean people like gnome
it just means they haven't managed to retain the fleeing users

>>105581286
icaza was on both apple and microsoft payrolls, this dude is a pariah amongst the FOSS movement now.

>>105581145
>regular updates
>stable
>accessibility features
kde for a long time didn't even deliver regular updates

>>105581261
nobody stopped those other DEs from forking GTK, why should gnome devs maintain shit they don't use?
Be honest with yourself, the other DEs are brainlets that can't maintain shit while gnome can.

>>105581166
Gnome is so corporate normies don't get scared and confused at the desktop, it's for Simple Jack types. KDE for power users that need all the extra features it can get that will make the normies cry to the higher ups that the desktop is too confusing and want Windows 11 instead.

>>105581419
>kde is for power users that make their distro their main hobby
>gnome is for users that wants a distro to just work and not get in the way
ftfy

>>105580548
gnome wayland gtk4 issue

>>105581286
I just read about him. He started so many important and influential projects.
But now he’s basically a Microsoft-paid traitor. Disgusting.

>>105581519
He is an apple indie developer

>>105580548
>this is your mind on freetard software
def not
you will find 1 or 2 window bugs in your entire distro
windows under the menus is slow scripting now which is disgusting

>>105581519
>Microsoft-paid traitor
who uses macOS (always, even during his MS days) because his choice of home computers has nothing to do with who's paying his salary, and he hasn't worked for MS since three years ago btw
and if MS proposed to buy my startup for a Lotta Money © like they did to his I too would accept and only a retard like the local freetards here would say no
He's just a prominent example, a lot of the old crew just left linux because it's bad, it's that simple. I befriended someone IRL whose *job* is to develop linux kernel drivers and you know what he uses at home? Windows, because having to deal with freetards as a job is painful enough and sane people don't bring that to their home.

>>105580415
>Nobody forced them to behave like autists
????
Redhat???????

>>105573102
selenium deez nuts

>>105580168
>x11 abandoned and rotting
Not quite true, it's being killed by redhat. People love X11 and would love to use a better version in the future, but patches and change is being gatekept by faggots.
>>105580205
This. This so much. It's never been an issue of it it can be done. It's always been a political issue.
>>105580206
>>105580520
>Hurr
>Durr

>>105581732
Well, you have XLibre now. So no more excuses.

>>105581732
I'm so happy X is finally dead and Xlibre will be the nail in the coffin. That brainlet that leads it has already introduced ABI breakages and regressions. I hope he gets even more attention, burns out and ends it, proving that X is an unmaintainable mess.

>>105581784
Hi Redhat

>>105573102
>>105573201
me when i cope super hard

>>105582025
Hi to you too, we will go after alsa next, our solution has already replaced them all, all that's left is pull the plug on the others. Wayland will only work with pipewire soon

>>105581784
x11 is way too big to be maintained by one single person, no matter how incompetent they are.
distributions will just ignore the entire thing because of all the bad publicity, so it will get picked up literally nowhere.
best case scenario they develop for a few years then get sidelined by wayland. realistic case scenario, maintainer burns everything on his way and the fork dies in the next few months.

>>105582055
>Display server dictates sound backend
>Pipewire itself doesn't use ALSA
0/10, you're not even trying.

>>105581519
he had a secret agreement with apple to not make gnome look like mac os x.

>>105579770
holy gem...

>>105581215
>>105581180
That's why Cinnamon is best. It's GNOME without an Apple coat.

>>105582244
>Cinnamon
Brother please

>>105582244
>cinnamon
>still no stable wayland implementation
>looks like shit
>barely maintained
it's fine for your grandma that can only understand windows. i still don't know how mint ended up the new user recomendation over fedora / opensuse.

Usecase for this thread?

XOrg is not a supported usecase.

>>105582284
>fedora/opensuse over ubuntu for noobs

>>105582307
5 years ago i would've recommended ubuntu. they lost my trust with snaps and ads in the terminal.

There is no replacement for GNOME on X11, because X11 is also deprecated. And that's the only usecase for GNOME on X11

>>105582292
No lies detected. But the "new" GTK file picker portal is sweet.

>>105582315
Yeah I don't like those either. But I still wouldn't recommend any other distro to nooberinos

>>105573725
He'd clean up a lot just using shampoo and getting lasik, but it's now no longer possible for a white person to look normal.

>>105572951 (OP)
You fags have been torturing ebassi since like 2019
Leave him alone

>>105582338
Fedora worked just fine as a noob, their docs cover a decent amount of ground and the arch wiki covers the more finicky things. The only issue is that it has less packages available for the more niche stuff, I kind of recall seeing ubuntu/arch but not fedora in their gh repos. Basically learned how to build because of it (bless people who make this step easy)

>>105582588
Fedora is too cutting edge for noobs. They are known as a "distro who falls for every new meme"
They were the first to try wayland, they are the first who went full flatpak retard and now they are the first to remove X11 support.
Wayland still sucks on NVIDIA
Genuinely, PoopOS might be the best for new peoples.

>>105582646
>PoopOS
hasn't seen a new release since 2022, it's basically abandoned, don't recommend it to new users atm.

>>105582646
the biggest issue with fedora is that it doesn't enable non-free packages by default.
you literally have to run commands in the terminal just to get youtube running.

>>105582284
>barely maintained.
now I know you are lying.

>>105581286
>miguel de icaza.
Wait. So even the founder of fnome was hard headed guy fighting with the rest of the foss community over some obtuse knows better than the user design shit? Kek it's a wonder gnome project survived this long.

>>105580296
Few different things.
1. Most importantly, making new things work on it has literally taken outside companies like Valve threatening to fork it (frog protocols lmao) to actually get meaningful shit pushed through.
Major desktops like KDE had to implement shit themselves using non-standard "extensions" to make standard features work.

The people running this shit fundamentally do not want to do......anything. They tried to kill Xorg by......not wanting to do anything. This same fundamental behavior also pervades Wayland. It is one of the crazier things I've seen in software but here we are.

2. Just like systemd, it is absolutely RAMMED down people's throats by the usual corporate suspects. And just like with GNOME+systemd, everyone know how this goes. Eventually things get locked down to the point where you more or less have to stay in the Red Hat silo. These people have been fucking with the whole Linux stack for two decades now and simply getting more and more hostile - anons everywhere are fucking done with it.

>can't minimize windows in one click
>can't maximize windows in one click
>useless phone notification bar wasting vertical space
I would list more but that should be more than enough for any non-retard to know this is a meme

Gayming with Artix running dinit, Xlibre/X12 and a riced out openbox is the fucking dream.

We're almost there churdbros.

>>105582069

.. it had a single maintainer for a long time until Ajax quit.

https://ajaxnwnk.blogspot.com/2020/10/on-abandoning-x-server.html

Also:
"Though the code happens to implement an unfortunate specification, the code itself is quite well structured, easy to hack on, and not far off from being easily embeddable."

>>105575470
I believe there is a reimplementation of X11 in rust already.

stop attacking the thinking man

>>105584959
>not even deliverymen want to deal with him
Grim.

>>105582646
Nvidia is fine on Wayland. I have no idea what issues you're concerned about. Maybe it's even more fine on X11, but I'm not sure what more fine than "it works" looks like.

>>105582523
what are they even talking about in the picture

>>105580611
god its so ugly

>>105573634
>gnome-music cannot open music files
...what?

>>105583829
thats not actually posible

>>105586537
Use case?

>>105580611
>Have to drag the entire window to reveal the dialog
GNOME zealots will defend this.

I love that libadwaita doesn't even use windows now. It just draws on the existing window. Now even your custom WM can't do anything about it!

>>105586557
I don't know, maybe listening to music... on a music player?...

>>105586584
I just went through a bunch of the gnome utilities,
Every one is buggy crashy garbage.
Wayland will be the same.
The “video player” has never been able to play one video.
I just use vlc now. I’m not sure why they bothered.

>>105586537
It can only load files that have been indexed by a background service and are placed inside your music folder. Super fucking dumb design, but it was the feetfag idea of "minimalism": invent a dumb way to use your program, and force everyone to use it like that. That way you lose all users and won't have to ever worry about doing anything anymore since nobody is there to report bugs

>>105586809
meanwhile on a normal music player:

>>105583740
People forget that X ran fine on 68020 10 MHz Cpus, 1 MB/s networks, and all types of operating systems like VMS. Always ran fine. SGI graphics workstations ran it for christ’s sakes.

Wayland is designed for one guy’s little gayming pee cee because that’s all they know. I feel sorry for that guy’s parents, and the parents of that guy’s disciples.

I will keep xorg cause I hate redhat and all gheys and troons.

>>105572951 (OP)
Good. Xorg is harmful software

>>105586933
>harmful software
are these types bots?

>>105586809
It’s not that stupid. cmus obviously works like this. And a few others I’ve tried. I guess, they are emulating itunes?

>>105587117
It's not limited to XDG_MUSIC_DIR tho like gnome music.

>>105587117
Probably “music organizer” or “music library” is more appropriate than “music player”.

>>105572951 (OP)
why does he look like the gassy cobson in this

>>105586862

Funny bit is that the one guy with the brains (krh, not the stooge daniels) haven't been active in Wayland for years and became a googler.

>>105572963
why is that a problem?
let people maintain old software, you're not being forced to use it anyway

>>105588625
>let people maintain old software
no. it's a waste of resource.
the problem about giving people options is that they don't take the right choice. look at nvidia, we've been asking them for years to get their shit in order and get a working graphic stack for wayland. unfortunately until push comes to shove nobody moves their ass.

>>105588718
>no. it's a waste of resource.
why?
you're not entitled to assign tasks to people
do you also tell musicians to stop learning instruments because they're a waste of resources?
gayland and x11libre can coexist, and clearly the xorg faggots have the leverage in making people choose which display protocol to use, what's it to you if some people decide not to use gayland?

>>105584959
don't make me like ebussy man
hate it when couriers do that, or ring my phone when I'm practically already behind the door and the doorbell's right there

>>105573042
and yet it still hasn't caught up to X

>>105573301
jesus fucking christ

>>105580454
>gnome
>sane default
I thought the US doesn't have mental asylums anymore, how are you posting from one?

>>105579995
dude this exact same thing has been happening to me since i upgraded to fedora 42 it’s driving me fucking BONKERS! i cannot figure it out. but if u have a remote ssh logged in to a diff user ive been able to kill my session that way

>>105589463
wayland in kde is still relatively new, as much as people like to shit on gnome it's the flagship wayland implementation

just say "oops", forget about it, ignor all the controversy, and start earnestly working on X again. you can come back from this.

>>105589488
x11 has been deprecated for like 5 years, everyone knew it was coming. it's way too late to do anything about it, at this point the only way forward for x11 sessions is a backwards xwayland.

>>105580762
>like Hitler was treating Jews
shelter them from the consequences of their own action and provide free swimming pools and theater?

the first time you do the right thing and realize how good it feels makes getting rid of systemd too easier.

>>105572963
Use case?

>>105580608
>>105580611
>having to resize the main window to expand the preferences window
Absolutely fucking disgusting. GNOME is an absolute piece of garbage. I'd take any other Linux DE or WM over it.

>>105589566
>anon is clueless about design
what's your solution? let the modal window grow bigger than the window it's attached to?
that looks far worse, here's the old behavior for reference.

>>105584959
what's the use case for ringing your door bell?
you can simply pick up the package from your neighbor, it's faster for everyone involved
you could install a drop chute for package instead of running your mouth, take your own advice >>105582523

>>105587107
either that or redhat employee

>>105588718
>waste of resource
you know what else is a waste of resource? the piece of shit that still couldn't catch up to X11 after almost 20 years

>>105589566
>GNOME is an absolute piece of garbage

>>105589499
Wwayland have been deprecated since it's birth.
nowhere in freedesktop's mission statement even mention wayland

>>105588718
If the state of the art graphics card company tries to tell you that your display server is a piece of trash, maybe you you should listen to them.

>>105589933
>someone defending nvidia in a linux comment section
there's a first for everything i guess

>>105572951 (OP)
>what is xenocara
heh, nothing personnel, linuxlets

>>105573893
Ah, I was looking for this. Thanks, anon.

The ebussy is a laughable little retard, and I've had less trouble with X11 myself, but everytime I ask for some feature on X11 that is available on Wayland it's always "usecase for that?"
Like I want HDR working, and I have an excellent monitor for it, but it's all "well my shitty trashy IPS monitor "supports" HDR and it looks terrible therefore you do not need it". I mean it goes both ways. You want drag and drop working properly, I want HDR. Right? Why not support these features? Only the ones you motherfuckers like?

Ebasedi is pretty baZed. You are just basedboys

>>105572951 (OP)
Thanks god I am on Windows 11 and don't have to deal with insufferable faggots like ebussy.

>>105589582
How about, hold on to your hat, not attaching the dialog just because it's flagged as modal? Nah, that's way too experimental. Surely nobody could even think of doing such a thing, right?

>>105591252
>don't attach the dialog when it's flagged as modal
>what if modal didn't mean what it means
or you know, you could just not use a modal dialog to begin with.

>>105573731
>anitta

>>105590201
>hdr

>>105591402
how does HDR with videos and gaymes work on linux? with winshit I sometimes have to restart the PC for it to trigger automatically, I never use the HDR option in display settings
will it work the same (or preferably better) on linux with trannympv? and what about gaymes?

>>105591465
hdr works ootb on linux these days, as long as you're using gnome / kde and not something like mint.
you will need a workaround for games though (gamescope).

>>105591490
aren't gnome/kde user interfaces? so they won't work with mint?
sorry I'm a linux noob

>>105591402
You don't get what I'm saying.
HDR doesn't work under X11.
When asking for such feature under X11 it's "what do you need HDR for" over and over.
Besides on GNOME (with an nvidia GPU) I'm unable to have HDR working over an 8bit color output so I'm stuck with banding. At least on Plasma it works fine.

>>105591562
Yeah, but it's retarded like that.
On linux you have 2 display servers, xorg and wayland
Wayland is supposed to be a replacement but there's a good amount of things that have been broken for a bit.
Xorg is on its way out because newer things related to display technology don't work that well on it and they want to murder it anyways.
On Xorg most features work similarly between desktop environments (KDE, GNOME, Cinnamon), there's different compositors and shit but not a lot of disparity when it comes to features related to display.
On Wayland it's a different thing where you're fucked with less desktop environments available and each one does things differently, and VRR works here but not there or in a different way, and HDR works here or there but in a different way, and it's a complete and utter mess.
You should be able to install KDE and GNOME on Mint, but that's just not fully supported there. Primarily people install Mint instead of something like Ubuntu for its different desktop environments, not to use GNOME or KDE. But Ubuntu decided to introduce a packaging system for applications called snaps, which don't work that well, and they're trying to force that shit down people's throats, so this did also bring other people over to Mint.

Like that anon said, gamescope might be needed. Gamescope has been worked on to get some shit working because Wayland developers are fully incompetent. It's what makes HDR work on the Deck essentially. Wayland HDR support is fairly primitive and if you have an nvidia GPU, forget completely about "ootb", please, don't let that man fool you for the love of god. gamescope and nvidia are like oil and water.

>>105591683
Thank you for the detailed explanation. I mostly gaym on my TV which is 4K60 without VRR anyway, I have a 1440p180 monitor but I usually just cap the framerate to my 1% lows.
Seems like I'm going to have issues than with my Nshittia GPU, I pretty much rely on RTSS for every game because the ingame frame limiters are way worse and Nshittia's solution adds input lag.
I would really like to switch to Linux but even with my pretty basic requirements there always seem to be some issues, maybe I just go with 10 LTSC IoT garbage and troubleshoot that, it does sound easier because at least most of my stuff works ootb on there.

>>105591585
Ah, gotcha.
Yeah the NVIDIA situation sucks.
I just do AMD these days despite the limitations.
It's all tradeoffs I guess.

>>105591562
Mint is using a very old technology platform.

>>105573706
>lowkey trying to kill xorg
Is not lowkey, we have been killing it for over a decade.
Wayland is not a new world order project. Xorg fucking sucks for maintainers (in the past, this project was poorly maintained, and companies were allowed to merge what the fuck they want, turning xorg "the sickman of free software" and probably the most bloated piece of software "everyone uses").
/g/ refuse to understand that the people who maintained Xorg begged to replace it with something that would not follow the same mistakes of the past. It was not a coup, wayland was created in 2008 and everyone was super transparent about why xorg fucking sucks, and why we need to kill it.
Yes, some developers hated Wayland because Wayland doesn't have, and will not have, all the shortcuts that xorg had, but at less people can maintain it without needed 3 months to implement the simplest modification.
Now a small group (very noisy) who doesn't even know how to properly code such behemoth of a project (seriously, xorg is on another level) simply started to demand that we turn the clock back.
The xlibre guy was known for making silly merge requests that would break xorg, and when he decided to go full schizo, blaming the death of xorg (something that was scheduled for almost 20 years) on guys wearing skirts, he got kicked. And when he became OPENLY HOSTILE to the project, going to the length of asking people to open issues criticising things that don't even exist, he got banned.

>>105591789
This post should be uploaded on every X11 schizo thread.

>>105591585
we have a limited number of resources, and instead of focusing on Wayland (which is already widely adopted in every single major distro), we should drop everything to bring a modern feature to dead software?
Nah, go fuck yourself.
Do you want HDR on Xorg? Go ahead, implement it. Ohhh wait... You don't know how to code. Such is the reality of every single xorg supporter. You know why? BECAUSE EVERYONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO CODE AND WANTED TO IMPROVE XORG OPENED THE CODE AND SAID, 'HOLY SHIT, I'D RATHER EAT GLASS.'
This is why we killed xorg. Because no one wanted to mantain it.

>>105591863
I'm not asking (You).
I'm asking the droves of people who want me to keep using X11 instead of Wayland. So I give my reasoning as to why I'm not using X11 and my response to that is "well you shouldn't use that anyways because it's a meme".

>>105591585
Scratch the nvidia HDR part.
While HDR on GNOME still doesn't work for me like it should, I just tested things and at least now (not 2 months ago, from what I've tested) installing vk_hdr_layer gets HDR working without having to rely on anything else other than Proton (forks). Finally, fuck gamescope on nvidia.

>>105580608
>Responding to the critism with this
Holy shit it's not a joke, Gnome users really are this retarded

>>105592286
That response was showing you that the bug in your Fedora vid is fixed.

See how your vid shows you dragging from the dialog, but the response vid is dragging from the parent window? The program has been modified.

And here's a video showing that you don't even need to resize it anyway since scrolling is easier.

>>105591863
>we should drop everything to bring a modern feature to dead software?
>we
Silly anon, you know none of us here contribute to either x and/or wayland
One edgy guy forking it doesn't mean everybody else stopped working on gayland

for anyone who's having trouble understanding how xorg works

>>105591292
>>what if modal didn't mean what it means
It means that the background window becomes inactive, not that the active window is glued to it. Other window managers don't attach modal dialogs, and even GNOME has a hidden setting to disable this behavior, but it also disables darkening, which was actually nice.

>>105592542
that's crazy

>>105591817
Except its a lie and propaganda he reposts in various forms in every thread. Muh bloat that can run on literal toaster. At the same time Wayland cant even run on 10 years old graphic card and they follow corpo drivers deprecations like a good dog.

>>105592542
>Let's connect to a remote machine to... let it control the position of my windows and draw some cute buttons above

What madness is this.

>>105592735
You experience this every day. When you go to an ATM, when you pay with a card at a shop, when you do self check out, and millions more when they log into their work computer and their desk.

What are you even talking about??

>>105592755
A card reader doesn't draw windows, anon.

>>105591789
I don't give a single flying fuck about anything you wrote, i don't care that xorg was a metastasizing tumor hold together with duck tape and spit or that wayland was a the godsend escape from that shit, i'm not even hostile to wayland per se but fact is that wayland is still a barely functional piece of shit after 20 fucking years and heading towards the very same convoluted mess that is xorg. If that's the case you'll excuse me for holding into something tried and true as a backup solution and if said solution has to be delivered by xlibre so be it, i couldn't give a single shit about the character of the person directing the fork nor of the project potential success.

That said go tell the Mir people at canonical that wayland adoption was 100% organic.

>>105591789
It is not really a political README, it is only after you realize that this dev is known for spamming offtopic political replies to discussions that you realize the truth
Saying "no DEI" is not inherently political, or it shouldn't be anyways. But it is a very American-centric wording that can alienate contributors from other countries
I imagine that Eastern Europeans, such as Poles, Slovaks, Russians cringe when they hear the word DEI

Let me know if you disagree to this random person and their opinions.
htps:/www.dedoimedo.com/Computers/xlibre.html

>>105593372
Don't open it. It has a virus.

>>105593372
>Computers
Lower c, my bad.

>>105591585
nvidia drafted a deepcolor extension for X11 back in 2017, but it was never done, thats basically what you need , x11 already suports 10 bit color, as do most of the drivers.

>>105593058
Nta but if he just shut the fuck up about politics and kept the flaming only on the technical stuff then this could have been just another fork with its own niche but he couldn't help it.
Even if people hated wayland in early in 2010 nowadays nobody gives a shit about what i

>>105592735
its was designed for mainframes in the 80s anon, that way you could have many terminals.

>>105591789
What a load of shit. I saw people saying he was making garbage merges but no, what was happening was he would make an MR that had several other changes attached to it and for some inexplicable reason the maintainers would only approve SOME of the requests, resulting in shit breaking. Every single time something broke he pointed out the extremely obvious problem with xorg, why are there no releases? Why does everyone rely on a master file intended to development use? You can see he had a dedicated following of people who would chase him around gitlabs and harass him, the worst example was a guy who instantly showed up and demanded they ban him because of his “broken MRs” and pointed out how he hadn’t fixed them. It had been a day, a single day. The second he was aware of the problem he fixed it. It’s software development, shit breaks, regressions happen. Wayland has regressions going on for fucking years at this point, so the idea that an MR he made causing a regression for a single day is banworthy is just retarded.

The decision to ban him had nothing to do with the quality of his work, it was purely COC nonsense. The goal is to snuff out development on xorg so they had to get rid of the only person doing any work, when harassing him didn’t work they had to just ban him.

>>105594200
They were angry he didn't give up and quit working on it like all the other people they've harassed off the gitlab for years. Patches for most everything people say Xorg lacks have been sitting there for years and they refuse to merge them. Xenocara just recently merged in a fire for tearfree on Intel GPUs in their patch set which hit -current and will be in the next OpenBSD stable release in 5 months. The patch is at least 5 or 6 years old at this point. I know because I had to manually patch my local copy of Xorg on Gentoo years ago before covid was a thing.

>>105591465
With HDR it just works for videos as long as you got the right video player/mpv config, and for games you just need to use gamescope, though it's getting near the point where it just works without that.

Why is it so hard to be "relevant" to the Buss

>>105595376
Loonduke?

>>105595376
This faggot and his friends fall over themselves to suck my cock in person and when I post from my 30+ year old username I've contributed code under since I was a child. But the moment I switch to a sock account and submit anything of value they claim I'm a troll/fascist/buzzword and 9 times out of 10 ban me.

This is why no one with any skill bothers trying to help the GTK project anymore. It was a real shame we had to let it go. GTK/Gnome 2 was pretty decent. I didn't use Gnome but I liked it for installing on my friends and family computers when I got them off Windows back in the day.

They've been trying to buy me off for years to get some retarded shit in the kernel.

>>105595376
Someone should fork the entirety of GNOME fix all the retarded shit and then call it CISGNOME — GNOME without the retarded gay shit.

>>105573331
This is the bare fucking minimum. And frankly, windows explorer is the best default file explorer of the major OS, even if most of the other stuff in windows is shit.

>>105595395
Yeah some guy got banned for linking an article of him on the gnome forum

>>105595647
It takes AGES to open

>>105573697
Looks like a younger RR Martin

>>105573301
>if bad thing bad then why nobody fixed it so far
imagine actually using that as an argument

>>105572951 (OP)
Why do they always have a hard-on over killing a piece of software someone uses and doesn't bother anyone?
Why do they always have a hard-on over removing support for older drivers?
Why do they always have a hard-on over removing support for alternative/older architectures?
Why do they always have a hard-on on "refactoring" old code and making regressions and never fixing what they broken?
Why do they always have a hard-on when applications removes features?
Why do they always have a hard-on when something gets deprecated and are gloryfying another bullshit reimplementation of a thing that just worked over and over again while making it more complex, less portable (Linux/Systemd only), more resource intensive?

Modern Linux developers have some kind of fetish and are proud of making the software less accessible. In the past people were making efforts to support more piece of hardware and more portable and these cunts remove support for them. Someone put an effort into making something work, possibly weeks or months of someone live pissed out the drain with every year. Add to it redhat endeavours of enveloping every part of linux with shite and forcing BSD into adopting that shite to even use something that already worked, but were changed because of NIH syndrome and EEE mission. They strive to get rid of independent developers. Only their solutions are supported, everything is specially tailored to make it broken on anything but their bullshit platform aka Systemd/Wayland/GNOME desktop.

"Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made" - this citation sums up the state of Linux corporate-driven development.

Year of Linux desktop was already 15 years ago and now they just move the goalpost changing shit forever creating a vicious cycle of reinventing the wheel badly over and over again.

>>105596162
The answer to all your questions: They want to force everyone on to "modern" systems with "security". Passwords are no longer considered secure. We need your DNA and facial ID. It must be connected to the cloud at all times for verification. We need to verify everything about you before you're allowed to access the 3 social media websites that are allowed to continue running on the web. You are not allowed to use other protocols aside from HTTPS because only hackers and criminals would use those. You are not allowed to have a copy of data on your local machine. Only criminals would want to have a copy of today's latest movie and TV show. You must watch them on our server where we can datamine your viewing habits and show you ads you can not skip.

Do you understand now why they keep telling you to "get with the times"?

x86 was a mistake. They never wanted us to have an open ISA or the ability to write our own applications. They've already gotten the normalfags on board with their plan with the cell phones and soon the "wearable" tech (that's really going under the skin). They can't have a bunch of nerds still able to access the internet through things like old desktop PCs.

It won't be long before your ISP won't even allow devices that aren't "approved" on the global network. For everyone's "safety" of course.

>>105595557
screenshotted to share it in the future

test

So its basically
>Local man is singlehandedly holding back the development of Linux display systems but /g/ supports him because he is le epic heccin nazi chud

will /g/ EVER outgrow ebuddy

>>105595376
Emmanuele is a good guy but you guys, you are so ridiculous, it's crazy.