Is Red Hat right to be against x11/XLibre? Do you support this heavy leaning into Wayland against the old windowing system it's slowly replacing to speed up adoption?

Total Redskirt death

I don't know why anyone would run a GUI on redhat.

>>105635521 (OP)
What even is the point of this drama? Can RH somehow stop all development on X11? If yes, we already have a massive problem in the 'FOSS' community. If not, why care?

From a business perspective, what they're doing is common sense. They do not care that Wayland sucks because they do not care about the Linux desktop in general. Being able to connect to a VM with SPICE and open terminal windows in GNOME is all that really concerns them, and Wayland can handle this extremely basic use case well enough.

I doube the XLibre guy's competence and am 80% sure he's an autist with no concept of optics, but the fact that his meme fork is making so many people upset is pretty entertaining.

>>105635577
>XLibre guy
>he's an autist with no concept of optics

>>105635566
X11 has been practically frozen for years. They held back the linux desktop for a decade messing around with Wayland.

Getting a donation pool going sufficient to support Keith Packard full-time to come back and an Xorg fork would absolutely have a solid chance. Enicro though? hardly.

Windows still works btw.

>>105635689
Fedora is the only functional distro, fosstard civil wars make no sense to me.

>>105635766
Not for long at this rate.

>>105635689
So RH is seething about a dead project?

>>105636075
They are seething because they want it dead but someone is trying to revive it.

>>105635521 (OP)
They should be indifferent. Red Hat is on Wayland and that should be the end of discussion as far as Red Hat is concerned. X11/XLibre should be none of their business now that they're fully committed to Wayland.

>>105636096
They need X because nothing works on wayland.

>>105636095
Cringe

>>105635577
You know we can all see the GitHub repo right? He went from 100 to 500 contributors in a week. He's got people ittrating on X the fastest it's been in years. This fork is definitely here to stay. Even if the cucked corporate distros refuse to adopt it.
https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/commits/master/

>>105635553
I do, it is used on Workstations. It's either RHEL, Oracle or Alma.

when is hdr and vrr getting added to xlibre?

>>105636429
This. The only reason the fork is making waves is because he actually codes (unlike everyone else at Xorg)

Why people seethe so much at Red Hat? It is literally the reason Linux is so big in the server space nowadays. Otherwise, BSD and Unix would have a bigger margin. Also, don't you know there are other major players too? That are the same or even worse than Red Hat.

>>105635521 (OP)
>Do you support this heavy leaning into Wayland against the old windowing system it's slowly replacing to speed up adoption?
>slowly replacing
they literally deleted the repo in an effort to kill it, you stupid nigger

>>105635577
>I doube the XLibre guy's competence and am 80% sure he's an autist with no concept of optics
- he did the majority of commits for X11
- wayland is literally still broken
- wtf even is optics and who gives a shit? the dude literally writes code, apparently
Go dilate, you stupid tranny. I’m not using wayland.

>>105636075
Its a legitimate threat, what people don't realise is that adding extensions to X is really easy due to its design, so getting X to do new stuff takes very little time, where as the wayland people will furiously masturbate over new protocols for literal years before they become standard.
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/14

they could lose to xlibre just because they are too busy jacking each other off.

>>105635766
so does x11

>>105638709
>he did the majority of commits for X11
He also didn't know what the xor operator does in C. Quantity is not quality.

>>105635521 (OP)
My fundamental issue with X11 is that it tries to be tty (the host), shell (the client) and ssh (the connectivity and security) in one. From my understanding this remains in wayland but it also puts moreemphasis on the ssh part making the functionality suffer

>>105638953
X is like having a garbage man who comes and picks up your trash and processes it, wayland like if the city contracted out the garbage collection to a company who then has to design a garbage truck and then they have to hire another company to process it , who then also has to design a new trash compactor .

>>105635566
>Last commit: 10 months ago
Yes

>>105635521 (OP)
My general stance in this sort of debacles is to prioritize community driven projects when they're the path of least resistance and only use (holding them at gunpoint) corpo projects when necessary. In my current situation i have no usecases for wayland, same deal with systemd or pipewire, i think selinux is overkill (i prefer jailing with apparmor/tomoyo on top if needed) i think flatpak is useful as a ready-to-go subsystem and i think gnome has become bloated garbage, that sums up my relationship with redhat.

>>105635566
The point of this drama is for Linux autists to feel like they're actively fighting an evil corporation. Red Hat is not "against" Xorg, is not "seething" about it, and is not trying to "kill it". It simply focused its efforts towards a more modern alternative and officially stopped shipping it in RHEL.

>>105638432
It's just a cool thing to hate. Notice how defensive the poster below you got, at someone who just gave their opinion on the situation, as if he was being told to do something he didn't want? That's basically the general mentality of these people. Red Hat does thing, means I have to do the opposite, hey stop forcing me to use the new thing you tranny. Kneejerk contrarianism and ad hominem is all they can do. And that's exactly what xlibre is, too. Xorg has been dead and deprecated for years; its removal from RHEL has been planned and announced years ago. But it's only *now*, that RHEL 10 finally got released, that someone decided to ride the controversy wave and announce a fork. It's not driven by any actual need, it's driven by narcissism.

no one on this board can afford red hat , why are you posting about it?

t. posted from RHEL10

>>105641225
Wtf are talking about nigger, you can just use alma/rocky
>inb4 REEE! that's not real branded RHEL™
Ok, make an account on red-hat and you can download oc rhel. For free.

>>105641225
Are you genuinely this clueless or are you just hoping that everyone else is?

>>105639786
This entire post is in so much bad faith that responding to it is probably a mistake. But let's make it simple. Red Hat has a lot of influence in desktop linux. I don't think that's a point of contention but if so we can revisit that later. Upstream Xorg maintainers, a significant amount of them are Red Hat employees (to be fair, it is not solely Red Hat so in that regards this characterization is a bit over-reductionist), have pretty clearly signaled that they aren't interested in developing Xorg and are mostly doing maintenance work with Wayland-based desktops being the intended replacement. However, there are people that do not think Wayland is the right solution and would prefer to continue to develop Xorg. That fact alone justifies a hard fork of Xorg. This is a perfectly valid technical opinion to have and to suggest that it is merely some kneejerk contrarianism is incredibly dishonest.

>>105641954
Just because "there are people" who think Xorg should continue to be maintained and some others who have expressed their willingness in maintaining it, does not, by itself, make it a valid and justified course of action. Ultimately, time will tell whether it's anything more than kneejerk contrarianism, but based on what I've seen so far, I wouldn't bet on it in the slightest.

>>105642248
What the fuck are you talking about? It's free software. You can fork it for whatever damn reason you want. The main developer of xlibre is clearly sincere in developing and working on it as the recent git activity shows. You can think he's a bad developer, wasting his time, will fail, or whatever, but that's irrelevant. His motive is pretty clear and sincere in that he wants to develop xorg. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

If valve wasn't in the picture pressuring the wayland devs they would still have a over opinionated system that would do nothing but kick the can for gibs while ignoring user feedback. The problem is if valve or big players with interest in making the linux desktop more user friendly leave what's next?
I don't mind someone pushing to be the standard but when they are overly opinionated autist that need multi billion dollar companies to threaten them what the fuck can be done?

>>105635521 (OP)
Me ne frego

>>105642369

>>105635521 (OP)
>Red Hat
>Right
Pick one

>>105642311
I'm not telling these people what they can and can't do. I'm saying it doesn't necessarily mean it's worth it. We could try and discuss what "worth it" means, since it's a relative term, but I can already tell your argument boils down to "just because some people can and want to do it and if only one patch comes out that only one neckbeard from nebraska benefits from it then the entire thing is heckin cute and valid and justified", so I feel that we'll just have to go ahead and agree to disagree on that front.

>>105642496
Why do you literally only argue in bad faith? You originally accused the fork of being nothing more than kneejerk contrarianism that is not driven by any need. I disputed that characterization as ridiculous and disingenuous. You've now shifted the argument to whether or not it is "worth it" which is a completely separate discussion.

>>105642610
Psychopaths want control. This explains their actions and why they always argue from a place of bad faith. Their arguments do not stand up to scrutiny but they can make them sound convincing. For example, Rust cultists pushing Rust as a safe alternative to C/C++ yet their language has a NPM style package manager slapped onto the language, but they conveniently ignore the dangers of such a thing or they contort the meaning of safetey to suit their needs (like it's safe in this context! while ignoring where it's unsafe in another context).

>>105642405
I mean, it's right, in a way... as in, far right but applied to joggers

>>105635521 (OP)
No because Wayland is old too and just as fucked. They should be funding something new and better,.

>>105642610
>Why do you literally only argue in bad faith?
You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
>You originally accused the fork of being nothing more than kneejerk contrarianism that is not driven by any need.
That is my opinion, yes.
>I disputed that characterization as ridiculous and disingenuous.
That is your opinion, yes.
>You've now shifted the argument to whether or not it is "worth it" which is a completely separate discussion.
How so? "Need" and "worth" are definitely related, if not synonymous in this context. How many people/projects need to genuinely benefit from this fork for it to be "worth it"? Good question. 10000? 100? 10? Based on what you've said so far, I felt it was safe to assume that your argument will eventually be reduced to its natural conclusion, i.e. "if at least ONE person NEEDS it or thinks it's WORTH it, then it IS". Feel free to disagree if that's not what you think, instead of acting offended and tone policing me.

>>105642763
lmao ok buddy

>>105635521 (OP)
I only use wayland nowadays, but I won't fool myself by saying it just works, since it clearly doesn't by any stretch of the imagination.
To this day it still lacks stability and basic functionality, because in my humble opinion, letting every single compositor do their own implementation of it was a huge mistake and blunder, since it clearly meant everyone and their mother did whatever they wanted and implemented whatever they saw fit.

>>105642763
Your paranoia of being psyoped into using some project against your will is certainly not helping you sound convincing.

>>105642834
More bad faith drivel. You have sold your soul. Keep coping.
>>105642969
Goalposts = moved

>>105642834
Your posts in this thread are in bad faith because they've made completely blanket negative assumptions about the motivations of anonymous people you have no connection with personally and you've brushed aside and not addressed the core of anything I said. You seem to have not entertained the possibility that people who develop xlibre may have genuine motivations or concerns and have brushed off their work as "kneejerk contrarianism". Again, I find that to be an incredibly dishonest style of arguing and will continue to call it out. Argue on actual merits with substance.

>How so? "Need" and "worth" are definitely related,
No they aren't in this case. "Need" is not a literal physical need just to be clear so don't go retarded on me. In this case because upstream Xorg is deliberately slowing down development and deferring to Wayland, people who do not like Wayland and would prefer to continue to use Xorg "need" a hard fork. Again, you can think their efforst are not "worth" it or a waste of time or whatever. That's irrelevant and a completely separate topic.

>>105643034
What goalposts? It was a one-off comment...

>>105643067
I already said in my second post that time will tell how well xlibre will hold up over time. I reserve the right to be cynical and pessimistic about it until proven otherwise. Motivations and concerns, however genuine, mean very little to me at this point.

>>105638909
And yet we hire indians all the time in America

>>105643233
Nobody said you can't be skeptical about it. But you should choose to base that assessment on the actual reality of the situation instead of wild conjecture.

>Motivations and concerns, however genuine, mean very little to me at this point.
Yeah I could tell because your opening post started off with a giant and completely baseless character attack on xlibre developers.

>>105643514
The "reality of the situation" is that it's extremely early days for the project, so at this point your wishful thinking is no less a "wild conjecture" than my scepticism.

>>105639786
the Redhat people are absolutely hostile to anyone attempting to revive X, they called enrico delusional when he suggested new releases, and then when they fully rejected him essentially, he tried making his own fork on the freedesktop gitlab. and they banned him and deleted it, for a "CoCk" violation, and did not disclose the reason why. then proceeded to revert not just breaking changes but basically anything he did, even though those same people accepted those patches previously.

So Either X is maintained by a bunch of retards, or There is some kind of conflict of interest, because their behavior doesn't make any sense otherwise, I will remind that enrico was doing stuff on the master branch, not the stable one, so he didn't really do anything that you wouldn't expect to happen normally. Yet he is treated like he was desecrating a grave.

They very easily could've just let enrico to develop his fork on freedesktop, and keep the existing xserver as the "classic" xserver, and it would have died on its own. ironically banning enrico made it more likely to succeed.

>>105635521 (OP)
Linux Foundation spends just 2% of their revenue on the Linux Kernel. That's how much corporations care about Linux.

>>105643671
I have not made a single statement or assessment about what I think the future of Xlibre will be.

>>105643721
>for a "CoCk" violation, and did not disclose the reason why
having had a quick glance at the readme, i think i have a pretty good idea why

>>105643796
The spicy readme is pretty weak, and originally did not have lines specifically mentioning redhat or the MXGA line
https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/commit/d1a32d32ed86380b86c98ffe050c79073c02b5b0

https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeOfConduct/
but I guess it violates " Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a professional setting"

still not something most would consider ban worthy, maybe a temporary suspension or warning at most.