Thread 105686528

Are EVs really the future? Are gas cars done?

>>105686528 (OP)
No. Just like the last 100 shill threads for EVs you've posted here. No one wants them. It isn't good technology. It isn't "green". It isn't cool.

>>105686533
Nigger this is my first post in a while
Take your meds

No matter how much israeli-canadian youtube channels try to diversify, EVs are /o/ not /g/. Unless you're complaining about the software and ipad dashboards but that's gas cars too now.

>>105686528 (OP)
come hell or high water

>>105686528 (OP)
No.

>>105686533
i want one and im somebody

>>105686564
Sure anon. You just randomly showed up "after awhile" and posted the same template thread that's been posted multiple times in the last week.

>>105686528 (OP)
yeah, one day, a pity everything about the batteries kinda fucking suck a fat one

>>105686699
Most online material about EV batteries (even ones that are pro-EV) is stuck in 2010 and pretends LFP chemistries and extremely advanced cooling designs don't exist. The latest batteries won't lose 50% of their capacity for at least 400k miles and given that EVs are so much lower maintenance than gas cars they might actually manage that regularly.

>>105686820
What does that have to do with how much they suck to charge, or how they don't work in cold temperatures, or how heavy they are?

>>105686820
>EVs are so much lower maintenance
Because you know. It's so hard spending 15 minutes once a year changing your oil. Or 2 minutes verifying and topping up your tire's air pressure. Or 30 seconds filling your tank with fresh gasoline. Or the few minutes required to grease your ball joints and suspension.

Oh wait I forgot. New cars don't have nipples for the last one anymore since they aren't designed to be used longer than 5 years anyway.

>>105686820
If you count charging as part of your maintenance then EVs have infinitely higher maintenance.
But ICE maintenance isn't really all that, I don't get this meme, I've owned plenty of time and never really had problems. Almost like a small % of preventative maintenance prevents your car from being pile of garbage.

>>105686528 (OP)
Yes. No. Both are here to stay until we move to a hydrogen economy in the distant future where we ran out of oil and didn't find an efficient way to capture carbon.
>inb4 polschizos rambling about infinite oil and how le "science" was wrong before

>>105687361
>we ran out of oil
No happening. It isn't as rare as they pretend it to be. It isn't from dead plants and dinos either.
>capture carbon
They already doing a pretty good job of that and storing it underground

EVs are for idiots.

>put fossil fuel in car
>car burns fossil fuel for energy
>air gets polluted
:|
>plug car to charger
>charger gets energy from power plant
>power plant burns fossil fuel for energy
>air gets polluted
:O

>>105687397
Your country must be fucked if the electricity pollutes the same as a gas car.

>>105687455
>Hey everyone we figured out how to get free energy from rocks we found laying on the ground
>NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T DO THAT IT'LL KILL US ALL!

>>105687499
What country?

>>105687455
>use magic hot rocks to boil water
>use steam to turn generators
>

>>105687499
>>105687526
Why are you making these nonsense posts?

>>105687397
Most energy here comes from nuclear and renewable, currently the biggest problem is not enough storage for that energy so they keep having to shut down renewable plants so the grid isn't toasted.

>>105687545
>renewable
>plastic crap we have to replace every 10 years and throw in the dump
Why do faggots that have never worked in a power plant think they know anything about how the grid works?

Your energy comes from coal, natural gas, hydro if you're lucky enough to be near a place where it's viable and nuclear.

>>105687555
>Your energy comes from coal, natural gas, hydro
It doesn't.

>>105686528 (OP)
They are fine, they make sense in cities and towns more however. Charging is becoming a non-issue, most people can charge at home relatively cheaply - though I do sympathise with people with only access to street parking. But theres a lot of chargers in grocery store carparks and whatever now, so it's very accessible.

Range for long trips is still a concern, but maybe a short break every 250-300km isn't the worst idea either. That said I usually take the train when going long distance.

>>105687564
>short break every 100 miles
LMAO. Imagine.

>>105687561
It does you dumb faggot. Try working in the industry instead of reading media propaganda for once in your life. Without coal you do not have power. Full stop. I don't care if some piss-ant country is putting out propaganda about how they're powering everything with solar panels and wind turbines. They aren't. They've just shut down their own domestic production of energy and are buying it at inflated prices from over their border.

Coal hasn't even been "dirty" since the mid-late 90s. At least not in any civilized country. The only reason a bunch of plants got converted over to natural gas is because it became more profitable to sell top-tier coal to China around the year 2000. Where they burn it in open pits with no fucks given. Since they don't have to worry about the EPA raping them with fines.

>>105687585
>Without coal you do not have power.
Yeah, we'd be fucking lost without 1.6% of our energy production. It's such a big sector that it's even bigger than solar, which accounts for 1.4%.

>>105687603
>pulling statistic out of his ass
Retard. You actually believe their lies about this don't you? Coal is the backbone of the grid. It along with nuclear and so some extent natural gas will always be the backbone of the grid no matter where in the world you're trying to build one. It's the backbone of the gird because it's the most efficient way to boil water on demand to spin a turbine. So you can meet peak demand no matter what the weather is like, no matter how much water is in a reservoir and no matter how far away you need to move the power around.

Your local area might be "green" but it's connected to the rest of the grid. So when peak demand happens and your bullshit can't meet said demand your community is forced to buy power at inflated rates from plants generating outside of your area. There are tons of plants that sit idle most of the time then make massive amounts of money because they can be fired up on-demand and sell whatever power they generate to some far away place. This is how the grid works. If coal was truly only 1% of power being generated for the grid there wouldn't be entire towns that only have coal mining as a viable job to make a living wage anymore. They'd all be shut down. But they aren't because coal is still king.

In a world that wasn't fucking retarded every community would have a small nuclear station either nearby or on every few blocks powering local communities. Probably little generators all over the place with larger ones built near lakes in the area to meet peak demands for mid-summer/mid-winter. But you idiots have been fear mongered by propaganda to the point where you won't let anyone build them. You hear the word nuclear and you go full retard because you have no idea how any of this actually works.

>>105687629
The only thing coming out of smoke stacks at modern coal plants is water vapor. All the "dirty" stuff is caught by scrubbers and sold for other purposes now. It's big business.

>>105687653
not him but cmon m8 you must have worked out that he lives in a different country to you by now

>>105686528 (OP)
no hydrogen cars are the future

>>105687653
>The only thing coming out of smoke stacks at modern coal plants is water vapor.
this is what amerisharts actually believe
enjoy your CCUS technology that literally doesn't even exist, will never exist, and would still be vastly inferior to nuclear power even if it did exist

>>105686528 (OP)
current battery tech is not good enough for now
but yea electric motors are based

>>105687653
>>pulling statistic out of his ass
No, I pulled them from the union of electricity/gas/heat/cooling producers.

>You actually believe their lies about this don't you?
I could either believe the trade group in my country, or some random faggot on /g/ that thinks coal is clean. Wow, a real hard choice. Gotta ponder this a bit.

>Coal is the backbone of the grid.
Sure, a whole 1.6% of the production.

>It along with nuclear and so some extent natural gas will always be the backbone of the grid no matter where in the world you're trying to build one.
Natural gas is a whopping 0.8% and nuclear is 39.1%. So basically, nuclear outdoes coal and gas by 16x.

>Your local area might be "green" but it's connected to the rest of the grid. So when peak demand happens and your bullshit can't meet said demand your community is forced to buy power at inflated rates from plants generating outside of your area.
Sure, we're primarily connected to two larger exporting countries, and one smaller one that mostly imports from us.

The larger one's electricity is mostly sourced from hydro (39.9%) and nuclear (29.2%). Coal is 0.4% of electricity and 3.1% of total energy. Natural gas is 1.5% of total energy and basically none of the electricity.

The smaller exporter's electricity is 89.1% hydro, 9.0% wind, 1.0% natural gas. Coal accounts for 2.6% of total energy and natural gas 16.1%.

>>105687397
>Ignoring the fact that producing fossil fuel creates an insane amount of pollution

>>105687653
>Unironically simping for the fossil fuel industry.
You do realise that coal is a non renuable resource and one day it will run out?

>>105686533
VW is going full EV soon

>>105686533
EV sales is projected to overtake ICE cars by 2035. You're sounding more and more like the horse and carriage owners. Ironic.

>>105686533
Please explain to me how it isn’t good technology and isn’t cool
>fast as fuck
>cheap as fuck
>less moving parts, more reliable
>you can fill up your car at home

>>105686528 (OP)
>battery dies
>have to replace the whole car
Is this the future you really want?

>>105690320
>fast as fuck
They accelerate fast and that is the only reason the ev community thinks acceleration is so important. Plenty of reasonably priced ICE cars accelerate as fast as needed. It's like getting a car that goes 190 mph. Yeah cool but who cares when your driving on streets with a max speed limit of 70 or so? 0-60 in 3 seconds is neat but it's not a game changer
>cheap as fuck
The opposite but whatever. EVs sell at a huge premium compared to ICE cars
>less moving parts
This is a good thing if it means less repair but insurance is more expensive for EVs because they cost so much more to repair / distance travelled
>more reliable
Battery range is dependent on temperature. Under a certain temp and range degrades. Even colder and they won't charge. These are temperatures that are common in winters here and people leave their EVs at the charge station and uber home. LMAO
>you can fill up your car at home
If you live somewhere it's feasible to do so. EVs are great as a second car if you have a house you can charge them at. In an EV only future how do you plan on providing overnight charging for everyone with a car in a 30 story apartment complex downtown?

They are not cool because they are completely dependent on a battery pack that can fail and totals your car if it does. They are heavy which means extra tire wear, extra road wear, extra energy requirements. They are completely controlled remotely by the make who can force auto updates or remove features and can see everything you do and require you link your phone to them to get even more out of you. They are pushing the subscription model to cars. They are full of dumb tech that isn't useful for driving.

>>105686528 (OP)
Got tired of trolling /o/, did you?

>>105690330
You know we do really need standardisation and regulation to figure all that stuff out.

EVs are a false promise to make the public not freak out at the fact that the government is slowly preparing for society to be largely carless. They know they cant make enough EVs and that their life span is at most 10 years, meaning there won't ever be a large second hand market. Infrastructure budgets will focus less and less on maintaining road elements such as bridges and highways while non-personal rail and water traffic will suddenly gain lots of investment and subsidies. Car dependent suburbs will see deaths by a thousand cuts through things like zoning laws being rewritten and tax codes for specific city areas being invented for the purpose of forcing people into the cities.

It's already happening and will play out over the next 50 years.

>>105686906
>once a year changing your oil
yikes
>>105687653
Natural gas is the only repeat ONLY power generation that can absorb demand spikes. It's never going away, ever. Getter get that geo-engineering going.
>>105692270
This is good albeit.

>>105692394
>Natural gas is the only repeat ONLY power generation that can absorb demand spikes.
There are natural gas power plants in the USA which use batteries to handle short term spikes. Batteries are one of the technologies which can absorb demand spikes. Natural gas plants can only do it when they have already build up steam and are running at minimum power, which is expensive.

The natural gas plants can do it longer but batteries can do it cheaper for short bursts. No subsidy needed, pure economics.

>>105686528 (OP)
EVs are good policy. ICEs are good politics.

Take your pick.

>>105686528 (OP)
>Are gas cars done?
No, hydrogen cars are somewhat interesting. Petrol ones on the other hand are done

>>105692640
Works on my machine. Hydrogen is a meme.

>>105686533
Luddite in a tech board. Kek

>>105692719
Post your car collection. Let me guess, you take the bus.

>>105691195
>They accelerate fast and that is the only reason the ev community thinks acceleration is so important. Plenty of reasonably priced ICE cars accelerate as fast as needed.
I think it’s funny how anti ev chuds bend over backwards to deny this benefit. Especially if they have a ‘stang or a chally or some other car with no claim to fame except straight line speed that loses to a model 3.
>In an EV only future how do you plan on providing overnight charging for everyone with a car in a 30 story apartment complex downtown?
they already have 240 volt power in every apartment for things like ranges and washers and dryers. adding one per spot to the parking garage is pretty minor in comparison.
>They are full of dumb tech
/g/ Luddite's

>>105692394
>This is good albeit
It is good in the sense that it might protect the environment and all of that. From the point of view of the general public, they'll simply be priced out of owning a car.

>>105692778
you can always buy a used car for the price of a mid range pc.
the emissions from my car are beneficial to the environment, carbon dioxide is what makes plants grow

>>105692807
>the emissions from my car are beneficial to the environment
you don’t really believe that contrarian faggot

>>105692825
type photosynthesis into google

>the government is funding car manufacturing to prevent people from driving cars
Ameribros we'd respect you more if you just admitted you think driving a gas car makes you more of a man.

>>105692862
surely you mean diesel trucks little commie?

>>105692776
Muscle cars are and always have been the laughing stock of cars because they suck at everything except going fast and being loud. It's not even that acceleration is nothing it's just not *that* big of a deal but because it's the *only* thing EVs have going for them the EV fanboys haven't stop talking about it for the last decade.
>one per spot to the parking garage
lol street parking is very significant in downtown areas but yeah the poor cities will certainely be able to afford putting in a charger per ev

I don't take for granted that luddite is a bad word. Things aren't good because they are new. Feature creep is a true problem that over-complicates everything adding needless dependencies.
>Let's make our door handles dependent on the electicral system for no reason what so ever. >You're a luddite if you think that's a bad idea.

>>105692807
>you can always buy a used car
Right now that's the case, it's retarded to claim it'll always be the case. There are many things like laws regarding emissions, new models being designed with short life span in mind, gas prices, size of production runs, etc conspiring to price you out of owning car.

>>105693051
emission laws are not back ported to older vehicles
don't be a defeatist

>>105693150
You're probably right, they'll just ban sales of new fossil fuel cars and eventually all older models will become worthless due to gas stations closing down outside of semitruck routes.

>>105686528 (OP)
>Are EVs really the future
Hell no, unless they manage to make an EV that consumes exactly the same amount of power and the battery lasts the same exact amount of kilometers in every single day of the year in every single place of the world at every single temperature possible, no they won't ever replace the reliability of a gas engine.
For fucks sake, they're literally getting sued all over the world for false advertising, since they literally say the car can do like 600 kilometers of range and then in the real world they barely do 200, specially in the northen parts of europe where half the year these cars are quite literally unusable.

>>105692270
>Infrastructure budgets will focus less and less on maintaining road elements such as bridges and highways
this is the most naive thing I have ever read in any EV thread. There is too much money to be made in maintaining and building roads and infrastructure that existing instutions would never let go of.

>>105687370
Let me guess, it auto-generates from G-d's will?

>>105686528 (OP)
Not even remotely

>>105693948
The gravy train is ending anon. Road maintenance spending to GDP is already decreasing. In the end we won't think much of it because "why maintain these roads in Nevada, nobody uses them and its the only reason they've lasted that long" or "hurricane Adrianne did so much damage to these areas it was better for the population to resettle and we don't need to fix the roads since nobody lives there anymore" and "that bridge was redundant to the road network anyway"

It's over.

>>105686528 (OP)
hydrogen cars, e-bike and hybrid-commuting bicycles are the future

>>105696978
or y'know maybe politicians just like to let things rot because it saves money

>>105697024
Politicians love spending money and infrastructure spending is very popular. But you'll still people having to rationalize the reduced spending somehow. You're even doing it right now even.

>>105688323
>You do realise that coal is a non renuable resource and one day it will run out?
So is Lithium. But riddle me this. If it's such a precious limited resource why are we selling it to China by the boat load instead of stockpiling it ourselves? Also, if we care so much about the environment why are we selling it to China where they burn it with no scrubbers when we just spent billions of dollars to retrofit every power plant in America to burn it cleaner?

>>105687750
>this is what amerisharts actually believe
Nigger I installed the scrubbers with my father who supervised the project and my Grandfather who built the fucking turbines. I worked for years in the largest coal fired plant on the east coast of America. Used to be the largest in the entire country. Still has the largest boilers.

I've worked in coal fired, nuclear and lately natural gas power plants. It's my day job. How many of you faggots giving your takes ITT have worked in the industry? Going to take a wild guess and say the number of other power plant workers ITT is ZERO.

You people should be ashamed of yourselves. I don't care if you're paid to be here or you've simply lapped up the propaganda. Pretty easy to talk bullshit when you have no idea how any of this shit works isn't it?

I hope we go on extended outage. Shut down all the coal, nuclear and natural gas plants. I want to see you fags attempting to make it on just "green energy". You wouldn't last a week since the fucking grid would go down instantly.

Funny how I never hear you faggots cry about hydro. Even though it fucked up the environment more than coal ever did and flooded countless towns. So many people lost their homes, farms and property. So many animals drowned. Tons of fish murdered every year. But I guess you don't care about that.

>>105686528 (OP)
I like EVs for the fact they cut way down on air and noise pollution, which is especially a problem in cities. The air in cities, especially in the wintertime, can get absolutely foul from car exhaust stagnating low to the ground.
On the downside, they're heavier and so wear through tires faster, which contributes to microplastic pollution. Presumably as time goes on we'll see more energy dense (and therefore lighter) batteries being implemented, as well as structural batteries integrated into the vehicle chassis, which should both help weight. But the tire microplastics issue is bigger than just EVs and really needs its own solution.

>>105697100
>infrastructure spending is very popular
because voters are fucking retards who expect the ghoul they voted for to somehow fix every problem without spending a dime. entire careers have been built on doing fucking nothing but support israel then saying "i lowered taxes doe"

>>105697101
coal is not "clean" by any sane standard, it is just somewhat less terrible than it used to be as a minor side effect of coal companies trying to improve efficiency. it's still easily the dirtiest power source.
CCUS is not a myth because it's impossible, it is a myth because actually doing it on a practical scale would be extremely fucking hard and expensive. just capturing the garbage that coal plants fart out is not the hard part
>erm but I WORKED in it so I know what I'm talking about
yeah no fuck off you fat ape, no one who isn't a NEET parasite buys this argument when they already know what you are saying is objectively wrong
same shit as when nurses say "I work in medicine and I know homeopathy works cause I seen it with my own eyes"

>>105686528 (OP)
Absolutely. Just the current batteries suck.

>>105697101
>So is Lithium.
Lithium is not consumed in the batteries. You can recover it during recycling.
So as long as you don't throw the batteries in landfill.

Don't you know guys, every lump of coal that is burnt becomes a diamond I heaven.
teehee.

>>105686528 (OP)
Test

A friend lent me his Nissan Leaf for a couple of months. His wife was happy to get it out of their driveway as it was on a two year lease but they stopped using it after a few months and just sat there taking up space.
It was absolutely adequate for running around town doing errands like getting groceries. The silence from no ICE engine was weird, as was the sort of whining noise the electric engine. That whining was low enough in volume that it was easily drown out by the stereo.
The Leaf doesn't have great range so if I wanted to go down into the center city, I'd need to recharge on the way home. An hour of charging at Kroger was enough to get the rest of the way home. Eventually I found that I could get to the city and back without charging if I didn't go over 55 on the interstate and took surface streets for the last quarter of the way home. The Leaf is most efficient at around 35-45 MPH. I only had the standard 110v charger at home so I couldn't go down to the city center two days in a row as it wouldn't have recharged enough. Of course I could have gone to a commercial charger, like the one at Kroger, but the cost is much higher than charging at home.
When the lease ran out, I bought a truck. The Leaf was great for nearby chores but worthless for anything involving Home Depot or lawn care. It also restricted me to a limited area. If I could get one for under $2k with a battery that still hold enough charge for 70 miles of range, it would make a great second car but could never be my primary vehicle long-term.