Thread 105718499

How did Tesla do It without using LIDAR?

they used cameras to save on cost

The virgin saftey hat waymo vs the chad child killer Tesla

>>105718499 (OP)
they didn't

two more weeks

>>105718499 (OP)
>do It
Make a level 2 self driving? That's easy, even I can do it:
pedal.press(100)
wheel.turn(-100)
// if this happens to be wrong, hopefully the driver notices and corrects it

waymo is at level 3 on city streets. This is an actual accomplishment, though it's still very far away from full level 5.

>>105718571
>pedal.press(100)
>wheel.turn(-100)
>// if this happens to be wrong, hopefully the driver notices and corrects it
fucking kek, my car do be dat way at times

Why is Elon so against LIDAR?

>>105718686
>Tesla didn't want to give their cars safety hats for the aesthetic
>people criticized them for valuing aesthetic over safety
>Musk took that as a challenge
>now Tesla will never use lidar, even if they could get it to fit their aesthetic

>>105719245
I mean he's no wrong, I wouldn't be caught dead in that faggy looking GAYMO

>>105718499 (OP)
By being incredibly shit and being geo-locked to the easiest parts of Austin?

>>105718499 (OP)
>Doesn't operate at night
>Doesn't operate when it's raining
>Still needs a "safety monitor" on board

>>105718499 (OP)
they can't even get their cameras to work properly, they didn't
>Drives onto oncoming lane
https://youtu.be/_s-h0YXtF0c?t=444
>Rider presses "pull over" and it stops in the middle of an intersection
https://youtu.be/C_pSZv6THfA?t=2289
>Another "pull over" incident where it stops in the middle of the road
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBcnJVTKP9c&t=546s
>Doesn't detect a car reversing towards it
https://youtu.be/R2E_JIrtc64?t=1737
>Cuts off car then randomly brakes
https://youtu.be/Zn8YMkLaYL0?t=1166
>Phantom brake again
https://youtu.be/xf_-v-nMrM8?t=620
>Randomly panic brakes for police that aren't even on the road
https://youtu.be/GpARr8DVU2M?t=21
>Runs over curb in parking lot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-_ALTghkPg&t=38s
>Safety driver has to move to driver seat to intervene in tight space parking lot which seems to have slightly touched another vehicle
https://x.com/DirtyTesLa/status/1937736544242012174

>>105718499 (OP)
I don't need ladar to drive, neither does my car

>>105718499 (OP)
>sovl
>soulless

>>105718686
Wild speculation:
1. The OEM they are buying LIDAR from isn't very cooperative
2. A hedge that the camera system is good enough, especially with 4k video whatever
3.If a human is good enough, getting stereoscopic vision from 2-3 cameras in a direction should also be good enough
4. TESLAs send data back home. Not video, but the processed information. There is a hedge that trough enough number crunching, a model can be built to make LIDAR redundant

But even more likely
5. Cameras already do stereoscopic 270º vision, and you got the car processing it before sending data to base. And there isn't a off shelf system to build LIDAR images into pictures for that system, meaning the LIDAR is a one trick pony, most likely on top of OEM not offering 2 point LIDAR to get stereoscopic output

>>105718499 (OP)
By running over children.

>>105720644
But you and other humans make lots of mistakes, and self driving cars aren't supposed to just drive at level that humans do, but should be much better and safer.

>>105718571
But aren't city streets way harder than anywhere else? I've visited san francisco and LA, those are among the most difficult to drive places in the US I think, at least for humans.

>>105718499 (OP)
Poorly.

>>105718499 (OP)
They use a gaydar

>without using lidar
Lidar sucks a lot for this kind of application. Literally everything that car will run into (sunlight, rain, fog, high humidity) will disrupt its functionality.

>>105718499 (OP)
Not very well. It's impressive it's able to work as well as it does, but they still have trouble seeing large flat-sided vehicles like semi trailers, box trucks, and fire trucks. It's been a known issue for almost a decade and an inherent limitation of using only 2D technology (cameras) to process a 3D world. Without lidar or some other way to get depth of field information, it's just not a problem they can OTA update their way past.

>>105718686
Lidar hampers mass production, easier to adapt to hardware changes with cameras like with changing models or suppliers.

Elon actually like to build things so making things simpler on the manufacturing end is always a goal.

>>105718686
LIDAR is very susceptible to issues.

I used to work on factory robots that had LIDAR safety lockouts so they wouldn't run over people that walked in its path. Basically it was a giant pain in the ass. Way too many false positives. It can't tell the difference between a spec of dust and a human. All it knows is "laser come back fast me shut whole line down". Granted I suck at basically everything and Im sure Tesla engineers are way better, but working on that thing destroyed my love of robots permanently.

>>105722401
>It can't tell the difference between a spec of dust and a human. All it knows is "laser come back fast me shut whole line down".
Sounds like your sensitivity is way too high.
A spec of dust will only show up as a blip a few microns or so wide. Last time I checked, a human is wider than that in any dimension, and LIDAR scans fast enough that you could wait a few samples before reacting.

>>105722401
>Granted I suck at basically everything and Im sure Tesla engineers are way better
They can buy enough parts to get it a few tiers higher, but the core tech issues remain.
What I don't get about LIDAR, is why is it monovision? Shouldn't the cheaper ones be 2 units, so you can see if its a solid in front of you instead of dust?

>>105718499 (OP)
by running into everyone and driving down he wrong lane

>>105718509
>they used cameras to save on cost
Bruh, they are the most expensive car ...

>>105718571
>waymo is at level 3
Meaning?

>>105722649
Meaning it can legally operate without a driver in some major cities

>>105722638
KEK

>>105722643
Have you tried to buy a waymo?

>>105719294
Is this a newer model?

>>105719294
I don’t really care too much about how the machine that takes you from point A to point B looks, especially with the self-driving benefit.

>>105718499 (OP)
more like suka PIDAR blyat

>>105722643
The base car of waymo is more expensive than the robotaxi will be.

>>105718499 (OP)
Turns out cameras work just fine. The main problem wasn't the cameras or the lidar, but the software necessary to train the data on. I have no idea how waymo works, but Tesla has shown some idea on how their NN system works. (from a much older build) Tesla has automated way of handling all sorts of disengagement and training the data on high quality issues that users face AUTOMATICALLY. And then automatically testing them out. So car records user disengagement -> gets data sent to server -> server analyzes the issues -> server queries tesla car fleet to find more data like this -> trains the new model with this new set of data -> sends updates back to all cars. All without human loop. And they also verify their build on virtual environment by the tens of thousands to find out any issues and solve for them before rolling out.

>>105722440
Well its like theres a direction and a range you can set. You can also set different ranges at different positions by finding locality by using motor encoders or lots of sensors in the track, but that has its own set of issues.

This was a fixed robot on a fixed track with a fixed range of movement and a fixed speed. I cannot imagine how complicated the logic in a self driving car must be. There are just so many variables.

>>105722401
I just heard a similar thought from the NeRF dev. He said we underappreciate how correct cameras are to ground truth and overestimate how correct lidar and orher detectors are. Although that can change in the fututre

>>105723092
That is a lot of words to say
The Tesla gathers data, it process them, and then it sends that processed smaller data back home.

Which means YES: The sentry mode/dash footage for the end user is wing clipped, but it often don't require more.

>>105719677
>all those YouTubers who act like it's nothing when something bad happens
Daredevils over here trusting Musk's arrogance with their lives