Why is this technology so divisive?

Because China made westoid solar panel monopolies obsolete

If the other side is adamant about it's adoption it means attacking it gets you cheap political points. It has nothing to do with the technology itself. Conservatism by definition means resistance to change right? It's not just social change. Boomers are also going to screech to their HOA about their neighbors putting those ugly ass panels on their roofs.

>>105741248 (OP)
is it?
The only division I see about it is that Renters get sorta fucked.

Who wouldn't want free power?

The problem about it is government gibs.
Why should eberybody pay, just for you to get free power cheaper?
Another problem is that energy suppliers get forced into accepting the energy you feed in. The energy you sell at peak times simply isn't worth shit, because there is already an oversupply, so we all pay you money that no person would pay you in a free market. We finance you yet again.
Aaaand better infrastructure has to be built to allow that. The wire doesn't care which direction the energy is flowing. And you don't have to pay for usage when feeding in. So again, everybody else is paying for you.
And despite you getting money for it in so many aspects, you most likely cant be bothered to install a battery to distribute load. Because you want it cheap and max-out on your shekels.

Installing solar panels for personal use, with a battery that covers your usage and some way to burn the excess energy... go ahead! That is amazing! We have that as well!
But wanting others to finance your free energy, nope.

>hailstorm
>your $25k solar panel array gets pwned
lol

because maybe taking out thousands of olive trees to build massive solar plants was not a good idea at all

>>105741248 (OP)
Personally I hate seeing them everywhere. The hills around me that used to farms are covered in oceans of these things and scammers knock on my door every other week asking me to add their program to my utility company to subsidize it. Meanwhile these panels have a life span of about 20 years and nearly impossible to recycle so the generation will have to take care of disposing them somehow while the people getting rich from them now will be retired or dead before that happens.

>>105741431

what kind of third world shithole are you talking about?
>energy suppliers get forced into accepting the energy you feed in
except they aren't since inverters are set for certain max voltage and will not bump it over the limit, obviously there are fuckers that try to meddle with this shit and they fry their own setup more often than not
>And you don't have to pay for usage when feeding in
except you do in non-retarded countries and the rate changes based on the day time and season

>>105741248 (OP)
Because some people are intelligent enough to understand how the sausage is made, and some people aren't. There are clear informed/ignorant and can/can't grasp logical conclusion splits on it.
Along with where you stand on immigration, it's is an excellent test of whether you (or the person you're arguing with) should be allowed to vote or make their own life choices.

>>105741248 (OP)
Are those 400 watt panels? That's a lot of power: 14kwh.

>>105741431
>The wire doesn't care which direction the energy is flowing
it does, so does the transformer. Thats what nobody understands and yet again forces premature upgrades on existing infrastructure and increasing the cost of everyone

>>105741581
Your post reeks of pretentious pseudry, because sausages are a net benefit for our society. Yes, sausages are made from slop, but that slop becomes edible and digestable and poor people can afford to eat "meat" too while companies literally setup full factories for nothing but recycling waste (for once unironically).
Where would you put skins and cartilage otherwise? Dump it into trash?

>>105741468
>and nearly impossible to recycle
minus the frame its literally blast furnace slag after the sealant got burned of.
wtf do you people think these panels are made of, nuclear waste?

>bro my power bill is basically free!
>yes i did spend 5 figures on solar
>so what my payoff period is 5-15 years!
>oh those damn inverters died again!
>oh no something fell from a tree and cracked a panel!
>just get a 5 figure lithium battery to go with it
>yeah so what the warranty expires before the pay off period is done

>>105741480
>what kind of third world shithole are you talking about?
what he described sounds like germoney

>>105742144
>so what my payoff period is 5-15 years!
the fact you think thats a selfown is telling

>>105742156
Poverty mindset. I know because I live it.

>>105742144
ROI for me is 3 worse case 5 years lmao.

>>105742144
Tell me, how many years must you pay to a coal power plant that's releasing lead dust into atmosphere and rotting your family's teeth, bones, and brain, before it pays off?

>>105742174
are you living in india? in the west for the past half century we capture the smoke and make drywall out of it

>>105742174
>everyone must use coal if not solar!
>i don't want to hear how the silicone was heated to make my panels nope it's 100% clean energy!

>>105742156
>>105742172
>>105742174

lmao hit a nerve solarlets

don't worry keep looking at your app saying no power generated till you fix that shitty inverter that failed again, maybe switch to micro inverters and get a guy to go on the roof to change them every time kek

>>105742211
>and get a guy to go on the roof
LOOOL

>>105742220
>ignores almost all states you have to have a contractors license or even electrical license to do solar work

>>105742195
>lead in drywall
at least it's not asbestos, timmy!
>>105742204
solar panels are made in china, just like 100% of things worth buying, I don't care if chinese suffer, as long as my family gets to have clean, fresh air outside of city, with no coal power plants.
I also live in a country that's cucked politically, so we can't just have our own nuclear power plants, and solar panels are the solution.

>>105742230
I live in a white country where I don't have to have a license to modify my home however I want as long as it doesn't endanger others.

>>105742230
>everyone is a muttoid
>land of the free™
Western country here, the only thing you need to outsource for insurance to not wiggle their way out of paying is the breaker panel addition

>>105742245
lmao feel free to show me the state you're in that has no electrical or contractor requirements to connect the panels and to the grid

>>105742256
My country has no states.

>>105741248 (OP)
not worth the risk + maintenance financially speaking. you are better off paying higher electricity costs and investing that money into index funds. the only people putting that shit on their roof are green freaks who believe they are going to save the world with that crap.

>>105741248 (OP)
People understand this delivers autonomy and Russian bots use the most far-fetched excuses to discourage them because their dystopic, mongol-rape-baby regime needs to sell oil and gas.

>>105741248 (OP)
Because of its users. Much like Apple, BMW, Linux or metal music, they are not bad, but their shills are insufferable know-it-all faggots. Their choice is not only the best one, it has NO issues whatsoever, its perfect and there is no discussion about it.

>>105741480
Inverters shut down when the voltage or frequency of the grid is past a certain threshold.
But that doesn't stop them from raping the grid.
It only stops them from murdering a worker who repairs a powerline and from frying all electronics of everyone who is behind the same transformer.
But just because they don't fucking kill you, doesn't mean that they aren't a burden on the grid.
They are independent and uncontrolled. So if the frequency goes off, suddenly every single private solar plant shuts off and from one second to another you got multiple MWs less production in your local area, causing a spike. Then it normalizes, and hen all turn on at the same time again.

Claiming that private solar plants wouldn't be a burden on the grid, that SOMEONE ELSE has to pay for, is wrong.
Happily you don't claim that.
So there is no disagreement, we just differ in the details.

>except you do in non-retarded countries and the rate changes based on the day time and season
You don't. Otherwise you would have to PAY, when you pump energy into the grid while it is saturated.
But you don't, you receive money, no matter the current state of the grid when you decide to punch everyone in the face.

Solar Panels for your own energy production are awesome. They are amazing things.
But being a jew, trying to cheap-out on it, relying on government gibs and demanding to get money, is shit.
It's all fine and great, as long as you don't make SOMEONE ELSE pay for you.

>>105742550
>you are better off paying higher electricity costs and investing that money into index funds.
in any part of the world where power is not dirt cheap, a micro solar array with plug-in inverter has like 5 times better return than the best index funds averaged.
since its only a couple hundrets and one time, its not a comparable investment, but your numbers are still very wrong

>>105741248 (OP)
>Breaks after 10 years
>Made of non-renewable parts
Simple as.

>>105742809
it takes like 5-15 years before you have your initial investment back and thats not including all the shit you have to pay for afterwards. the historical return of something vanilla like the s&p500 is 10%. I type that as a german house owner, we have the highest electricity costs in the world and its still financially more reasonable for me to invest into index funds than solar panels. I also dont have to deal with maintenance and other annoying factors.

>>105742850
It pays off immediately if you aren't a retard.

>>105741248 (OP)
Because some people have to pay $30000 for a tiny amount of power that will pay for itself after 10 years, while I got mine subsidized for free and generate twice the amount I need to live comfortably.

Don't care for any comment in this thread.

Just buy a solar panel for your car battery please.

Don't fall for the battery tender scam.

love /o/

>>105742794
That's also why it is so hard to recover from blackouts nowadays.
We recently had a blackout that covered more than an entire country. More than 50 million people. In the EU, the very EU that used to jerk off how their common-EU-grid is so amazing.

How do you recover a shut-down grid, when there are all those private dormant plants, that are waiting for a life sign of the grid, to instantly punch everything they can into it - and then shutdown right away again, if it was too much?

That's why in most countries, suppliers are now begging for regulations that require private power plants to be controllable by the supplier.
So the supplier can shut it down or turn it on and is in charge of the energy thrown into the grid.

And guess who is rallying tooth and nails against such a regulation? All the fucking private solar panel owners, who own them for the shekels... because it is all just ME ME ME, someone else controlling my plant? Possibly shutting it down, so i earn less? NO WAY!

>>105742809
>in any part of the world where power is not dirt cheap, a micro solar array with plug-in inverter has like 5 times better return than the best index funds averaged.
Neat.
Can't wait to see you prove this claim to be true in your next reply.

Go ahead.

>>105742879
NO GOY, IT WAS TOTALLY NOT THE SOLAR PANELS AND UNCONTROLLABLE INVERTERS THAT CAUSED THAT BLACKOUT

>>105741248 (OP)
There is this recent trend to demonize rooftop solar and advocate for massive swaths of land to be converted to solar farms and I don’t know why

>>105742937
You get to sell worthless barren wasteland for $$$ by marketing it as a "POTENTIAL SOLAR FARM PLOT".
Simple as.

>>105742937
It's always about some leech wanting shekels, whenever government gibs are involved.

>>105742890
a micro solar array is cheap, like a couple hundret euro cheap, and the installation cost is zero since its plug and play and gets fixed on a balkony rail or simmilar.
In my area asuming you use all power it generates of couple hundret watts peak (since the catch with them is zero compensation for power fed back through the meter) they pay for itself within one single year.
Meanwhile the msci world is like 10% annualy if we ignore capital gains tax.

>>105742894
Solar is an excuse to remove all excess capacity from the grid so authorities in other countries can yank your chain. That's literally it.

>>105742850
>I type that as a german house owner
you obviously typed that as a retard.
>t. also german with 200kw installed from way back when you suckeres payed my subsidies
>>105743049

>>105743049
You're just collecting gibs.

>>105743068
the micro solar array im arguing about receives zero compensation.
>You're just collecting gibs
and youre just salty you missed out lmao

>>105741431
China gibs their solar industry
It floods domestic industry
and kills domestic industry
Also Chinese solar industry grows as a result

solution
>1) high tariff
This may kill chinese solar adoption domestically but doesn't mean domestic solar industry will flourish. If domestic industry is to grow, it will take few years for factories to spool up, and in the mean time, solar adoption in the US is stalled.
>2) gov gibs
Every industry gets it. Gas/oil/fracking gets gibs in trillions of direct gibs each year and indirect subsidized in cost of health care. But gibs in the US is given to political allies these days so they dont incentivize good product but political loyalty. So its corruption all the way.

>>105741248 (OP)
Most of the hate comes from the fact that it wasn't until very recently that these things became remotely useful and every other green cult tech is pure aids. Solar panels are the only remotely decent idea.
Also in Eurabia where the adoption of this tech is basically forced and completely inorganic rubs a lot of people the wrong way, especially since it leads people to take some pretty lousy contracts with local government-backed companies that give you dogshit panels and have you in contract jail for a long time.

>>105743085
>where the adoption of this tech is basically forced
Ah yes I remember well in my youth when the Stasi came and made us install solar panels on our roof. What the fuck are you smoking nigger?

>>105743085
its sometimes funny, im right wing pro nuke, pro coal but also pro solar and when i talk with green tards their brains cannot process that.
im also pro rope on these fucks

>>105743115
I know you are not concerned since you live in a muslim ghetto, mahmud, but the rest of us in the city have to deal with shit like this.
https://environnement.brussels/pro/reglementation/obligations-et-autorisations/le-certificat-peb
They are literally destroying perfectly normal buildings for the sake of greenwashing.
Homeowners have to keep jumping through hoops like buying new shitty tech and install panels to comply with local regulations.
>>105743122
Green niggers are subhumans. All they had to do is make the tech, try to sell it and let the market decide, but no, gotta keep voting for insane batshit cultists who push shit new laws.

>>105743115
yes just like the vaxx wasnt indirectly forced upon on most people in western countries. why yes I could just quit my job, dont leave my place, meet other people, dont use public transportation or visit public places and be fucked over with with insurance companies. yes no one is holding a gun to your head. no shit , retard.

>>105742053
>Are those 400 watt panels? That's a lot of power: 14kwh.
Yes.
A solar panel array with a theoretical output of 14000w so you can have measly 500 usable watts when it is, you know, an average day with a couple clouds in front of the sun.

I rent a small unit in an Australian capital city, one which is situated within a block of 5x units that are each owned by different private landlords; the landlord association here is called a strata (not sure if you have that term in the US) and they would have to come to an agreement for solar panels to be installed, which they haven't probably due to cost and the logistics in light of the fact that the tenants in my block organise their own electrical provider contracts.

That said, in my city (where rent costs have doubled in the last 2 years) the push for solar has made electricity costs skyrocket; we import a good chunk of our electricity from another state because we don't make enough ourselves apparently, and with so many people having solar panels now the cost of maintaining the main grid and to pay the enormous surcharges on imported power has to be distributed among the dwindling number of residences that draw from the grid (given we're a fucking sunburned taint of a country, ie. those houses with solar panels pretty much never fall below a surplus).

As someone who wants to maybe buy a house at some point but only earns 76k a year, when rent costs like 700/wk, and the downpayment on the tiniest little shitbox of a house requires you to have 120k on hand for a 10% deposit + stamp duty, the whole electricity costs issue is just another thing I didn't really need.

PS. HELP ME

>>105741431
>Why should people contribute to a society rather than le ebin DUDE INDIVIDUALISM LMAO

>>105743049
>No proof
*yawwn*
Concession accepted. Thanks for conceeding the argument by refusing to prove your own claims to be true.

>>105741248 (OP)
From a global politics perspective, it's an awful idea to put all your eggs in one basket. There's places where the sun barely shines so you end up putting massive solar panel farms where it does, to get power elsewhere. This means civil unrest, terrorist attacks, trade deal negotiations and even the local weather in one nation can effectively take down the electrical grid in another nation.
Solar energy is also used as an excuse to lobby against other forms of energy, meaning ever increasing reliance on the technology. Not only is the location of the panels an issue, but also manufacturing them. Most solar panels are made in China which means your energy is now also entirely reliant on how the CCP is feeling about your nation today.

>>105741248 (OP)
wih the world being as unstable as it is right now, buying a land and having your own ways to produce energy sounds like a good idea.
I'm still living in the city but I'm saving to gtfo from there and buy lands so I can have some kind of way to survive when whatever shit hits the fans (spain killing its neighbor grid, russian attack on the grid, israel missiles for whatever reason, etc)
if you have lands but don't have a solar panels and a working diesel generator, the fuck are you doing? get your fucking survival instinct back ffs.

>>105743447
>buy land
>still expected to pay taxes on it
lets see how much you actually own once you stop paying taxes for your own land. "owning" land is an illusion

>>105743447
>Solar Panels break within 10 years
>Are made of non-renewable materials
>Also non-recyclabe
Seems like a terrible idea, if you want to make money.

>>105743205
I put the panels on the house I'm renting myself without asking, my landlord didn't really care but I told him I can take them out whenever I move out in less than a day and they can take whatever damage was made to the roof out of the safety deposit, I'm running a battery setup though because feeding into the grid requires too much red tape.

>>105741248 (OP)
Whats the problem?
>Have appropiate roof
>install PV
>enjoy electron choreography in your devices.
Nice

>>105743220
>why should people contribute to a soceity (me) instead of le ebin individualism (poor people who dont deserve anything but living elbow to elbow with violent apes)

>>105743492
They don't break, the max power drops below 90% after 10 years.

>>105743534
>They don't break
>They just stop functioning by over 90%
And you think that isn't broken?
Also they do break. Why do you think they can't?

>>105743474
yeah no shit
>>105743492
no shit, you can't make money producing your own energy anywhere on this planet.
I just don't trust the grid anymore with the absolute retards I have as neighbors.
spain and germany grids are absolute dogshit, maybe mudslims fuck our wives but atleast we have nuclear energy in frankistan.
these two cesspools NEED france to dump energy when they produce too much because we're the only country in the region capable of dealing with their electorally-motivated retardation.
spain killed its own grid a few weeks ago, they may very well bring us down with them the next time it happens (it WILL happen the only question is when).
the same can happen with germany.
we're talking potentially multiple days blackouts during summer where residential solar panels + batteries can save the day.
that's mostly what I care about right now wrt energy.

>>105743560
>you can't make money producing your own energy anywhere on this planet.
That's a big claim.
Can't wait to see your proof that no power-generating plant/company on the entire planet is profitable.

Ah I see. ITT: Boomers seething, clinging to straws and building snowmen. Motivation is the same as always: Instead of changing habits upon realising their harm they will instead do whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to retrospectively prop up their 'choices' argumentatively. 'Choices' that are actually nothung but following the herd. You can wittness the same when talking motorized hypermobility with boomers. Many such cases. And not the only sector in which the boomers attitude is: After me deluge.

>>105743503
>Whats the problem?
these creatures are allowed to vote
>>105743544

>>105743586
Why are you so upset?

>>105743570
the fuck are you talking about? we're talking about residential energy production, if you buy land and start an energy company you may be able to make money but that's OBVIOUSLY not what this thread is about lmao

>>105743596
>we're talking about residential energy production
And it's making money. On the Planet. For residents.
Why do you think it's "literally impossible to do this on the planet Earth"? Be specific.

>>105743609
>And it's making money. On the Planet. For residents.
31m country-wide is bad lmao
>Why do you think it's "literally impossible to do this on the planet Earth"? Be specific.
because you sell it so cheap it takes more than the lifespan of the panels to get even, atleast taht the case on most european coutries I know about.
pic related, that's the prices in frankistan, you need a massive field of solar panels to get a few grands a year, that's ridiculously low, you have to interveign ONCE to fix something on your field to lose money

>>105743656
It doesn't say it's Country-Wide. That's an assumption you made. This is just one solar company in the UK.

Why are you so scared to answer me?
Just tell me why you think it's "literally impossible to do this on the planet Earth", despite my very clear example proving you wrong.
Do it in your next reply!

>>105743474
Took a real sherlock to figure that out. Only that everyone else just naturally understands:
You live in a territorial state, as do 99,99... % of people. Ownership of anything is a legal construct and it is secured by through law said state passed. Posession on the other hand is a natural phenomenon.
So yeah the state gets to do whatever the state wants to do with the land making its territory. The state chose to enable its citizen to have ownership over land so it passed law that grant a person, once their name is on some title, a list of limited but exclusive rights regsrding the land. So the end result is that there is a list of things anyone can do and must not do regarding that land and a second set if those lists for the person named in the title and the state gets to change it all, at any time.
Did you play too many nation building games to ever reach a state where you would not expect this?

>>105741248 (OP)
Because it disrupts solar patterns and causes harm to birds and reptiles that depend on those.

They're ugly and actually bad for the environment. Coal burning power plants are actually better, but liberal media won't tell you that.

>>105743671
>This is just one solar company in the UK.
not what I'm talking about, ONE individual can't live off the energy he produces from his HOME, I'm not talking about his energy business.
>Just tell me why you think it's "literally impossible to do this on the planet Earth", despite my very clear example proving you wrong.
companies buy energy you produce at a low cost, obvious fucking ly it's not the same everywhere, I'm talkign about the first-world with laws and regulations.
>Do it in your next reply!
there you have it daddy

>>105743683
LMAO
>picrel
also
>teacher
that explains alot about the USA and t.

>>105741248 (OP)
>isn't great for actually powering a city
>literal environmental dependance for optimal power generation (summer in Sydney vs winter in Oslo)
>isn't nuclear power

>>105743701
an individual can very comfortably live using the energy their home solar setup produces, covering all their e ergy intensive purposes:
heating
mobility
pumping
appliances and devices
Some are just assholes and insist to purposefully live highly energy intensive whilw fully aware of the harm fossil fuels do

>>105743701
>ONE individual can't live off the energy he produces from his HOME
You're moving the goalposts.
Why are you so scared?
Your statement is, and I quote
>"you can't make money producing your own energy anywhere on this planet."
I proved you wrong. Moving the goalposts won't help you now, retard.

>>105743726
why can't mongrels ON A TECH BOARD not at lwast use the term 'generate' over 'producing' energy

>>105743683
>>105743705
>collecting idle UV rays blasted from the sun will force the sun to funnel all of its energy into a few relatively microscopic panel batteries
This is facebook boomer level shit what the fuck

>>105743754
It was written by a retired science teacher.
aka boomers.

>>105743754
you wont be looking so smart anymore when its all dark!

>>105743734
Becasue he's retarded lol
he can't even remember what he wrote previously, I have to keep reminding him what he said.

>>105741248 (OP)
Because nuclear reactors are more badass, generate a shit ton more power, and look like they came out of Dead Space

>>105743754
I mean c'mon, the 'harm house prices' gave it away, you might even think its a dog whistle

>>105743725
>an individual can very comfortably live using the energy their home solar setup produces, covering all their e ergy intensive purposes:
where?
not in my country
>>105743726
>You're moving the goalposts.
fucking wot
>I proved you wrong. Moving the goalposts won't help you now, retard.
kys you fucking subhuman who can't read, I just answered you by reducing the scope to france and surrounding countries and admitted my mistake, not my fault you can't fucking read.

>>105743785
in germany for example
t. native german

>>105743785
You said
>you can't make money producing your own energy anywhere on this planet.

Now you're saying

>ONE individual can't live off the energy he produces from his HOME

Which is a different argument.
AKA; MOVING THE GOALPOSTS.

Want me to spoonfeed you more little retard? I even reddit-spaced this post for you, so you could understand it better.
:3

>>105743801
awhhhh how kind he is to his pet downie

>>105743801
>Which is a different argument.
that's what I wanted to say since the beginning
I blame esl

>>105743816
>that's what I wanted to say since the beginning
Well it's not what you posted, sorry. You said
>you can't make money producing your own energy anywhere on this planet.
And I want you to prove this claim, or admit you were wrong.
Don't be scared.

>>105743816
If you can't read and write in English, why are you here?

>>105743836
LOL
many entities make money generating and providing power.
Where is this magical difference between a legal and private person supposed o be that completely breaks the otherwise functioning market for them?
I know a guy who lives next to a stream. and has a turbine house, its connected to the grid btw. and he or any other person who is the owner of the property will effectively earn money from it as long as they keep it running and the prices remain what they are.

>>105743873
Exactly, this anon gets why the ESL Frog is wrong.

>>105743849
learning

>>105743836
> admit you were wrong.
I admit I worded my message poorly

>>105743893
Go somewhere better.
For both of our sakes.

Nobody wants to talk to an ESL and you won't learn real English skills here.

>>105743906
No, admit you were wrong.

>you can't make money producing your own energy anywhere on this planet.

Is the person who made this statement correct? Or are they wrong?
Don't be scared! Just answer the question.

>>105743906
Using the wrong words means you were wrong by definition.
Go ahead. Admit you were wrong.

>>105743907
no
>>105743920
>Don't be scared! Just answer the question.
already did, it does not matter if you don't like the answer
>>105743934
yes
>Admit you were wrong.
already did lmao

>>105743942
Where did you admit you were wrong?
Quote the exact part where you typed the phrase "I was wrong", or you have not done it.

Why are you so afraid? Just do it.

>>105742134
>i should be allowed to vote or make my own life choices
OK, thanks for telling us.

>>105743954
Ironic that you'd post this niggerbabble when your own country allows foreigners to vote.

>>105744018
No it doesn't lol

Because retards like to argue in favor of nuclear power and want to argue in bad faith about how it's 100.0000000% safe and nothing bad can ever happen.

Everyone else thinks it's kind of cool to have a panel that generates electricity passively.

>>105744155
Is anyone arguing for NP ITT?
All I'm seeing is people saying that Solar Panels aren't as good as they seem, due to the waste.

>>105744197
>due to the waste
only mongoloids argue about that

>>105744314
Cute non-point.
Want to tell the class why it's not an issue?

>>105743560
The most basic bitch solar panel installations do not produce during a black out. Not even for you.
And the people who have that cheap shit, are the problem. They do some cost calculations and want to earn money, and that is simply not possible if you want to be capable of running off-grid.

>>105744197
What waste? I've been in threads on /pol/ where seething retards keep saying we need to use nuclear energy because it's safe and effective like the vax. When I mention nuclear disasters in the past they just say I'm overreacting and that no radiation leaked out. When I mention DEI retards handling nuclear waste that could potentially leak into the water table and kill millions of people and be toxic for hundreds of thousands of years they just start swearing at me.

Someone once replied to me that we shouldn't use solar panels because of lithium leeching. Maybe he thought I was suggesting farming endless batteries and I didn't have the energy to reply to him suggesting we could recycle lithium batteries. These people can't be reasoned with.

Nobody ever died from a solar panel exploding.

>>105744338
why do you think it is an issue? the aluminium can be separeted and recycled like all metals, glue, plastic backing and caulk gets burned off in a garbage disposal facility and the entire rest left is mostly silicon dioxide with traces of metal salts that gets re used as blast media like all other slags from melting processes.
Do you also think windows or glass containers are industrial waste? of course not.
But mongrels like you would argue that it isnt real recycling until one makes a new panel out of it, and that real recycling has never been tried

>>105744397
>What waste?
It's made from non-recyclable, non-renewable materials that you have to throw in a landfill every 10 years (at most, ususually more regularly).
That's a lot of waste.

>>105741248 (OP)
it makes big oil shills upset

>>105744399
>recycled
It can't. No commercially used solar panels are recyclable yet.

>>105744413
>It's made from non-recyclable, non-renewable materials
Even if this is true it's not even in the same category as nuclear waste. There are meta materials being researched now that are much more efficient and less bulky as current solar technology. In time that can be made more renewable too.

>>105744422
>im all out of non arguments

>>105741431
even if you werent a retarded /pol/ anarchocrapitalist

>The wire doesn't care which direction the energy is flowing.
this is completely wrong, ac phase/frequency is very important

>>105744436
>Even if this is true
It is.
>t's not even in the same category as nuclear waste
Never said it was.

>>105741248 (OP)
Pollution. Solar panels have a determined life spam and then become non-recycled trash.

>>105744441
Why are you getting upset?

>>105744446
fuck you are retarded

>>105741431
All energy generation gets gibs. Even fossil fuel power plants. Only difference is that individuals can also install solar panels, and they of course get subsidies for it.

>>105744462
Not jsut subsidies, you can tell excess power you generate back to the grid if you can't store it.

>>105744454
>70 pbtid

>>105744477
>anon has nothing else to say
>so he makes up "facts"
cute.

>>105744397
Nobody cares about the psychological trauma that you suffered by getting told off on /pol/.

Mention that you want to be self-reliant and produce your own power to run off-grid, and the only replies you will get are "based".
Go for the "muh environment" angle and repeat shit that some guy on the TV planted into your brain in order to push a narrative that makes your country dependent on other countries, and you deserve to get shat on, cause that makes you a fifth columnist.
Also recycling lithium batteries is retarded. You instead should have gone for the fact that you can have pumped-storage power plants or make hydrogen with excess energy on the grand scale. While batteries are your private off-grid solution. You are never going to run a steel mill on lithium batteries. Do you want to replace fossils and nuclear with solar panels? Then you are stupid.
Trying to do the
>hahaha, you hate DEI, so lets just claim that in the future only incompetent fat sheboons will handle nuclear waste
is stupid as well.

Basically:
Just be honest and don't talk from an ideological position.

>>105744490
To emphasize:
>i want to be self reliant
Makes you LESS dependent.
>i want our country to abandon the majority of its energy production in favor of a technology that is only suitable for private homes - because THE WEATHER GODS DEMAND IT, THE WEATHER WILL BE WORSE IF WE DON'T DO THAT
Makes you MORE dependent. Not just do you depend on your government, your country depends on some other country that WILL use its position and in the worst case throw you as a proxy into a war where you die in a trench.

>71 pbtid

>>105741248 (OP)
because you have to live in a desert for it to be worth it lol.

>>105741248 (OP)
Because they keep fucking coming to my house even though I have a No Soliciting sign. Wtf do I need to do, put blinky lights on it? Solar power might be cool but if I buy it I want to buy the panels and batteries outright not have some faggot plan with the company where they technically own the equipment and can steal my power if they want. There is no way in hell I buying it from a door to door salesman either.

>>105743164
>muh vaxx
Are you NPCs incapable of having other dialogue branches?

>>105744490
Too much gay to reply to but here's a few snippets.

All it takes is some retard on a forklift to drop a barrel of toxic waste and have it leak into the water table and you are completely fucked. Go ahead and start shilling radiation pill therapy and to stop whining about it.

Yeah handling such materials that have a half life of tens of thousands of years is real fucking smart, dipshit. I can't even believe I'm replying to you.

>Also recycling lithium batteries is retarded
Yeah I guess the growing demand for batteries leaves us with the only good solution: leech more lithium, surely that's not toxic or bad for the environment.

Fuck you, I want to live on a clean Earth.

>>105744579
You can't live on a clean Earth.
Not with your "solutions" lol.

>>105744579
>Yeah handling such materials that have a half life of tens of thousands of years is real fucking smart, dipshit.
And now imagine there being industrial waste from all kind of processes that is water soluble, chemical stable and doesnt even have a half life (it will stay that way for ever), being stored just in the same maner. But for some reason nobody cares about that.

>>105744643
He doesn't care about that one becasue it loses him the argument lol

>>105744579
bro, Germans threw nuclear waste since the 70s like this into an old mineshaft.
And they still don't know if it is inside the barrels or if it went out and water already washed it away. In fact, they had to drill into it to check, because somehow nuclear waste is such a nothing burger that you can't detect it when it's out?

Funnily enough, the whole endeavor to collect the nuclear waste again, was ordered by politicians who then said "Look how expensive this is, that's why we have to get rid of nuclear power".
This whole thing isn't a safety hazard or environmental hazard, but it's a political shit fight.
The very fact that you can use this for a political shit fight, rather than having an: OH SHIT OH SHIT OH THIS, WE ARE COMPLETELY FUCKED, proves your argument wrong.

No shitskin is able to be as incompetent as those Germans were.

>>105744747
>AIslop
Just pollute drinkable water goy, it's nothing goy

>>105744747
the low risk but high volume nuke waste is contaminated or activated construction debree and indeed a nothingburger. the real dangerous shit is vitrified and impossible to leech out, even if the barrel disintegrates

>>105744764
If there is water pollution, why is it not detectable?
Shouldn't it be super simple to check if you got heavy metals in your radioactive water?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asse_II_mine

Those Germans were so fucking incompetent to such a high degree. Just short of opening the barrels and bathing in it.
Yet nothing happened. How is that possible?

If you would know anything about the subject you are talking about, you would know that the shit that has super high half life time, are at the same time very weak radioactive sources.
If they would emit a lot, they would fall apart faster. It just makes sense.

>>105741248 (OP)
The only ones hating on it are kikes with massive amounts of money in the coal industry

My power isnt averaged and I pay based on the current price of electricity, so when it is sunny or windy, power is practically free anyway, and if there is no sun my solar panels wouldnt do shit to help there either, and here in northern europe theres not as much sun as in other places.
It feels like renewable energy is nice at scale but kinda dumb as an end consumer and would just be more shit I have to care about mantaining in my house.

I am interested in getting a battery though so I can store power during the cheap parts of the day in winter and use it in peaks, I feel like thatd be a much better investment, but batteries are pretty expensive still, so Im not too sure about that.

Maybe Im retarded and I should be getting solar panels either way but every time I see about it it doesnt seem to make complete sense.

>>105744818
>If there is water pollution
I don't have any data on what is buried, how much of it, or where, let alone if any DEI retards were in charge of it or designing its containers.

My point is that such objectively harmful materials is more dangerous to the life on Earth than a bit of 'metal' and 'glass' that apparently can't be recycled (because... reasons). Compare a few million tonnes of glass and metal over the next hundred years in a landfill to the environmental impact of unmitigated fossil fuel pollution and toxic waste. It's not even in the same category.

Besides, wind is better because it's windy all day and doesn't rely on the sun. Now here come the retards implying I'm arguing things based on their assumptions. No, small wind generators can fit on roofs and are like 1m in size max, and they can be made out of meta materials that don't need to be thrown away every 10 years.

Or what about the literal millions of miles of coastal area you can put wave generators on. Inb4 strawmen attacks against that technology too.

tl:dr if it doesn't harm the environment or have the potential to kill millions of people in catastrophic failures, or pollute and kill wildlife with carcinogens or toxins then it could be a good idea, it depends who is in charge of it and how smart they are. Rich people and evil people can't argue in good faith or be put in charge of things because they fuck it up and line their own pockets.

>>105741248 (OP)
Because draining the Sun is a bad idea.

>>105744436
Nuclear waste is in fact largely recycleable.

>>105741431
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIpHxIbyD-M

>>105744764
>pollute drinkable water
>with nuclear waste
Stop bitching and buy a gravity filter Klaus. Radium isn't a magical malevolent force that makes h2o molecules evil.

>>105744955
>Earth than a bit of 'metal' and 'glass'
cadmium telluride

>>105744955
What's that bullshit with DEI?
Do you just want to score some points with some political ideology you project upon us?
The Germans threw tens of thousands of barrels of nuclear waste will bulldozers into a mine and let it crash down and barrels be broken, then bulldozed over it and dumped the next load.
This IS the worst case scenario. There is nothing worse possible. Germans treated nuclear waste as if it would be construction waste.

Then, after fifty years of doing that, they got politicians who were very anti-nuclear (on behalf of their oversea masters) and they tried to prove how expansive nuclear waste disposal is, by whining about how that storage is unsafe and how it has to be recovered again.
They tried their hardest to find contamination.
It was politically WANTED to somehow detect some tiny little bit of radioactivity somewhere. They drilled holes into it to try to prove how harmful it is.
And they found no contamination.

Imagine this. There are ideological politicians who order people to dig into nuclear waste and to drill holes into it, in the hope that they will find something dangerous.

>>105742144
>so what my payoff period is 5-15 years!
just hope the political winds don't turn and the government shuts off your subsidies

>>105741248 (OP)
Remember how plane travel was super safe for decades, then that changed when they hired woman pilots and nigger mechanics? Same thing with nuclear powerplants. Its only safe when smart white people are in charge of it.

>>105746028
>Remember how plane travel was super safe for decades
I'm sure you did the statistics in your head and convinced yourself that you are right.

>>105746054
It was a truism back in the 90s through the 2010s that air travel was safer than car travel. I understand you are underage though

>>105741248 (OP)
it's too expensive for the actual payoff
as contractors we installed them in a primary school after we built it, I did some quick calculations and concluded that it will take +15 years to cope with the costs, in a place where it's sunny +8 months a year. and that EXCLUDING maintenance fees.

this was 3 years ago, the panels basically broke multiple times and took even more money for maintenance, mainly because of birds, and the inverter broke by the end. what a shitty investment.

>>105741446
Because Democrats/Americans want to destroy the oil industry. Why don't you understand this?

>>105741248 (OP)
Because the government intervened into the market and fucked things up.
Early on they were forcing utilities to buy power way above market prices, letting already wealthy people with large homes and large lots get paid for being wealthy enough to have the capital and space to install solar. The same builds almost always had zero battery storage meaning after a day of ripping everyone else off selling above market power they could then ride out the peak demand at the subsidized levelized rate.

Even today most solar installs can still get the levelized rate for power when they jump back onto the grid during the most expensive period, evening peak.

Then add in all the tax breaks which just rewards already wealthy people with even more money and you get his two tier system, of the rich getting richer at the expense of the poor. The next BS is forcing insurance companies to not raise rates for people that put the energy equivalent of bombs in their homes that are prone to fires.

Solar is good for storing energy, like running fridges, freezers, AC units, charging batteries. But trying to fit it into a full grid merge is just going to distort the market leading to waste and higher costs.

>>105746445
wtf i love democrats now
TFD (total fossilnigger death)

>>105746227
>as contractors we installed them
>this was 3 years ago, the panels basically broke multiple times
what a great handyman you are, how do you even fuck this up. We installed on 6 large sheds 15 years ago and the only damage so far was an animal chewing trough a cable
>mainly because of birds
what a cope

>>105746468

>>105741248 (OP)
Those things last 25 years and can't be recycled at all, they need to be buried.