Thread 105766572

wayland doesn't have any problems. remember, its a YOU problem.

>>105766572 (OP)
works on my machine

yet another luddite chud cope and seethe thread

>>105766572 (OP)
Sebastian Wick was talking about how Wayland can't let programs know what the primary monitor is, leading to games launching on the wrong screen lol.

>>105766572 (OP)
I use Xlibre right now but I don't mind moving to wayland once they get it working

>>105766646
Not a Wayland problem, Chud. That's you a YOU (CHUD) problem.

>>105766635
Your post describes you personally perfectly
You’re a chud: underground dwelling mouth breathing faggot with no life

>>105766572 (OP)
Wayland just doesn't fit my use case

Reminder that wayland forces vsync and composition unless you're in fullscreen mode.
Basically any program that requires low latency won't work unless you forcibly get into fullscreen mode just for that program.

>>105766691
What's the use case for having a use case?

>>105766646
why do y'all even have to use way land to play games? can't y'all just launch a tiny window manager?

i forgot specifics but all you have to do is startx -- wine game.exe or some shit

or maybe wayland should be forked? then you can push all the changes you want which red hat refuse to add

>>105766921
>just waste RAM on wayland + x11 and basically concede that wayland isn't good enough

>>105766572 (OP)
Meanwhile GNOME also doesnt conform to Wayland specs by refusing to implement xdg-decoration or whatever it's called

>>105766933
wayland is from intel, not redhat.

>>105766572 (OP)
I can't believe chuds in power didn't come up with unofficial Wayland extensions that help it achieve feature parity with X11 at the cost of "security" or whatever yet.

i'm just not going to use latencyland, thanks

This is a pretty dumb take. You are either saying any new protocol literally has to include the previous protocol or be on the hook to make everything before work with it. This is why windows is so bloated because they can never let anything go to reduce code size. This excuse also doesn't really fly with open source software because if you don't like that some software is incompatible you could just update it so that it is.
>Still using X
Sure go ahead no one is stopping you.

>>105766572 (OP)
i WILL use linux mint & xorg forever and no amount of red hat streetshitters telling me it's wrong will make me switch

>>105766693
there is no "wayland" and it doesn't force anything. it's up to DE devs to decide what to support.

>>105766572 (OP)
Xlibre solved all the problems I had with both wayland and X11/xorg-server.
It's smooth as fuck, even all the multi monitor issues are gone, no screen tearing either despite having different frequencies on my monitors and an nvidia card.

>>105766952
>has 16gb ram
>20mb is a waste

>>105768262
really? why?

>>105768610
the problem is tinker trannies playing "democracy" and they suck at this game because they're mentally ill schizophrenics with communication issues.

>>105768610
Show me that unicorn wayland DE that isn't dogshit then.

>>105766646
Literally not an issue. You don't *have* to specify what monitor you want your window on, and it's best to let the compositor choose it for you.
>>105766693
Unfortunately true. As far as I know, KDE with AMD gpus is the only Wayland setup that properly supports tearing.
>>105768483
Latency is not bad, it's the display stack. Libinput is really quite good.
However, I sorely miss network transparency.
>>105768614
How is it on Intel? I might pick it up if it's as good as you say. Does it support fractional scaling out of the box?

>>105768676
>You don't *have* to specify what monitor you want your window on
But I want to??? And it's kind of a big deal on fullscreen applications like games as you cannot simply drag them to a different screen??

>>105768676
>How is it on Intel?
Dunno, I don't use (((IsraelInside))). I have an AMD CPU and a NVIDIA GPU.
Never needed fractional scaling either.

>>105768643
basically, the guy who started wayland was working at redhat back then, he was paid to maintain xorg but got sick of it. He wrote the draft of the wayland protocol on his spare time then left redhat to join other graphics system developers (Keith Packard) at intel to make it a reality.

>>105766572 (OP)
>breaks the entire wider ecosystem
uhh yeah it's like everyone else's fault like totally

>>105768690
>But I want to???
Okay, then select the appropriate monitor. Game still doesn't need to know what the "primary" monitor is.
>as you cannot simply drag them to a different screen??
Anon...
If your game doesn't specify it wants to launch on a specific monitor then this is absolutely possible.
>>105768704
Oh 1/16 increments is decent. Wayland does 1/120 increments, but honestly I don't think it's enough of an issue for my setup. Will give Xlibre a try.

>>105768727
>Game still doesn't need to know what the "primary" monitor is
Why not? I want it to launch on the correct monitor.
>If your game doesn't specify it wants to launch on a specific monitor then this is absolutely possible
I don't know whether you play video games, but you may notice that video games lack titlebars on account of being fullscreen applications.

>>105768788
Please just use Windows and leave Linux for the rest of us.

>>105768676
latency is, in fact, bad

>>105768818
You can move over back to Windows and leave Linux for us gamers, troon.

>>105766572 (OP)
This but unironically.

>>105768676
>Does it support fractional scaling out of the box?
If you mean server side scaling, then yes, same as Xorg (via xrandr).

>>105768818
>be linuxfaggot
>talk about how Linux is full of freedom and customisation...
>...except for which fucking monitor you want your program to use
>and if you want this functionality, you're anti-Linux (even though it worked just fine on X11 for years)

Valve, now is the time to activate the Frog Protocols

>>105768391
they did, check https://wayland.app/protocols
plenty of missing feature complains actually have some optional protocol for it. the common pattern is that Gnome/Mutter doesn't implement them

>>105768846
What I meant is that the latency on Wayland is from the display stack, not from input.
>>105768948
Great.
>>105768954
I'm referring to the fact that the other anon doesn't know how to automatically arrange windows. And he somehow thinks that a title bar is necessary to "drag" the window over.
>>105768975
This. If GNOME implemented wlroots protocols it wouldn't be this bad.

>>105768975
>the common pattern is that Gnome/Mutter doesn't implement them
so? just implement it in your app and mark all gnome bugs as WONTFIX

>>105766908
As a matter of fact we're doing it right now and this tiny window manager is called XWayland lol

how come every piece of freedesktop software is clearly written by people who barely use desktop computers?

>>105768975
>Prevent the screen from timing out
>Protocol is considered unstable
lol. lmao even.

>>105769063
usecase for desktop computers?

>>105768690
so how does other window systems do it?

wayland enumerates displays to client (but there is no preferred flag) and client can set window to fullscreen with display as nullable argument, null means server's choice. and it's still just a hint. but you can pick largest monitor on client side or something like that.
how do the games misbehave and why? is it server's fault by reacting undesirably on null argument, or do the games start on first enumerated monitor or something like that?

>>105766572 (OP)
wayland will forever be broken on nvidia

>>105769063
growing up in san jose i always asked myself that question. so many engineers and developers have no idea how a computer works. my first job was at frys elecontrics and we would get constant streams of engineers and developers coming in who had no idea about anything about computers. and these people, built the hardware, made the software. it made me realize very young, very fast, there is no such thing as an "expert" and the very things we take advantage of, are made by people, who genuinely have no idea what they are doing.

Just read the Wayland protocols discussion and this Wick nigga is actively doing vandalism to linux.

If you made hyprland run on Xlibre I would adopt it. As it stands it's the best window manager in existence so I'm on wayland.

Tinkertroons vs. FDO/RHELtroons

>>105769074
the protocol stability is a massive joke. there are few protocols that everyone implements and everyone uses yet they are marked as unstable for decade with no change (e.g. the relative-pointer + pointer-constraints duo which allows features like to lock pointer in-place during drag, consolidate pointer to window or warp the pointer)

>>105769080
>a given monitor is designated as the primary monitor
>your log-in screen knows that this is your primary monitor, and puts the field on said monitor
>applications know that this is your primary monitor, and draw on said monitor upon being opened
etc

>>105769110
They banned him for 3 months and coincidently there were a lot of useful protocols merged in that timeframe lol.

>>105769063
normal software developers usually don't write code for free as a hobby, and don't throw a 100's posts long tantrum about primary monitors.

if you haven't noticed it already, open source only attracts freaks. it's a freak show.

>>105769137
did you made that up or do Windows or X11 actually give you that info?

>>105769156
wddm does designate a monitor as the master monitor. you can change which monitor is which in windows.

>>105769163
>>105769156
To designate a master monitor (primary display) in Windows, you can follow these steps:

Right-click on an empty space on your desktop and select "Display settings" from the context menu.
In the Display settings, you can click on the "Identify" button to display a number on each monitor, helping you determine which monitor is which.
Click on the box that represents the monitor you wish to designate as your primary display. The selected monitor box will highlight, indicating it's chosen.
Scroll down within the settings related to the selected monitor and find the option labeled "Make this my main display".
Check the box next to "Make this my main display." Windows will immediately switch your desktop, taskbar, and most application windows to the chosen monitor.

>>105769128
Should I ask what their retarded reasoning for considering these basic, elementary school level protocols, that should be default and built into Wayland itself by design, from the start, are still considered unstable?

>>105769156
>>105769163
Waylandfags will tell you there is no use case for this

>>105769163
>>105769172
but is the client application aware of this in any way or you just set fullscreen without any monitor reference and window server picks the right monitor? because that's how wayland works as well

>>105769037
but then the video gets cucked by the wland compositor

>>105769163
>the master
Delete your highly problematic language, chud

>>105769220
If you worry about that you can run (good) games without any dislpay server at all

>>105769219
Yes. Applications default to whatever Windows sets the master monitor to or what the user sets it to if they change it. That's been default behavior since Windows 9X days.

>>105769117
n i r i is better

>>105769219
>but is the client application aware of this in any way
Yes. This here is outside of the Windows system settings.

>>105768630
1 bit is a waste in this context

>>105769236
Based counter-strike

>>105768676
>and it's best to let the compositor choose it for you
absolute fucken lmao
the state of the linux desktop

Here we go boys. I'm about to become the 0.01%.

>>105769246
>>105769137
>>105769237
>>105769211
>>105769172
why do I have a feeling that you are not programmers and have never written a graphical application and don't know the detail in question of underlying protocol, yet still trying to answer for some reason.

let me rephrase it: when application wants be in fullscreen mode on primary monitor, does it have to explicitly say which monitor is want to be fullscreen on, or does it provide no information and OS pick the primary one automatically?

So far you've only told me that you can pick one monitor in OS settings as primary, doesn't answer anything about how individual applications get to choose the monitor.

>>105769319
tldr schizo post who is struggling to cope over the fact, everyone else can do a master monitor but gayland can't.

>>105769319
Literally no other platform has this issue, stop being retarded reddit spacing wayland dev.

>>105766572 (OP)
>only my code fail with wayland
>must be wayland faults
Corrective rape should be a thing in open software.

>>105769319
>doesn't answer anything about how individual applications get to choose the monitor
YOU'VE ALREADY GOTTEN THE ANSWER MULTIPLE TIMES LOL

this stuff always reminds me of that video of Torvalds telling Poettering that you should never break your users' shit

>>105766572 (OP)
>Sebastian WIck
I remember him getting banned from the DXVK discord server for being a sperg and sending death threats to the devs, lmao

>>105768614
You know that Chromium is going to drop xorg support at the end of this year, right?

Shit like this is why the only linux usecases are VMs and containers
>can't imagine anything more cucked than using open source software developed by the terminally online terminally not-passing
At least my jeetware is developed by what is effectively slave labor which is based

>>105769319
Games are told by the OS what the primary monitor is

>>105769360
That's alright, I don't use chromium.

>>105769360
>run minimal wayshit compositor inside x11 window
>run chromium inside that
TOTAL XORG VICTORY

>>105766572 (OP)
I'm just gonna say that no matter how good wayland is. If 90% of applications don't work on it, it's not a good idea to force people to switch to it. This is how you brick systems.

>>105768676
>Literally not an issue. You don't *have* to specify what monitor you want your window on, and it's best to let the compositor choose it for you.

>just let the compositor choose the 1 inch screen on your motherboard instead of the 1080p one.

>>105769360
Electron as well right? Based Google preventing me from running bloatware.

>>105768676
>You don't *have* to specify what monitor you want your window on
What is the Wayland solution to my games launching on the wrong window?

>>105769411
So far, the only difference between xLibre and Xorg is the fact that xLibre drops the support for Wayland to run inside.
Not even joking...

Blender3d will support hdr on wayland only. X11 not even considered.

https://devtalk.blender.org/t/vulkan-wayland-hdr-support/41214

>>105769513
There is no electron without blink.
Not sure how xlibre users will browse the internet without updated browsers.

>>105769496
Shit compositor. Try using a good one.
>>105769517
Hyprland lets you specify window rules to move specific windows to specific monitors.
>inb4 hyprland troon

>>105769555
Most software are dropping Xorg support because updating something that only a handful of people use is expensive and time-consuming.
Game engines too. There is no point in offering Xorg support if the absolute majority of the people are using Wayland (GNOME will drop Xorg support now, KDE plans to do it with Plasma 7, and XFCE is really behind but already has support for Xorg). Those 3 combined are what? 95% of all desktop users?

>>105769588
>nb4 hyprland troon
LMAO, this place is now against Hyprland too? Do they hate everything that works?

>>105769588
>lets you specify
I don't want to do that for every application. I just want them to work.

>>105769518
That's not what xwayland is you retard. xwayland is xorg as wayland client so you can run xorg applications in a wayland compositor. Obviously xlibre would drop it since there's no point in maintaining it when the wayland people will do that.

>>105769603
Works on my machine. There's one game that stubbornly picks the other monitor but other than that, games mostly seem to launch on the focused monitor. Which is the correct and only sane behavior.

>>105769589
valve is not ready to move to wayland

>>105769319
Using randr in xorg tells your application what the primary monitor is and sends you an event if this changes.

>>105769621
>games mostly
Okay, but why can't they ALL just work, like on X11 or Windows?
>launch on the focused monitor
Why shouldn't I be allowed to click on my game shortcut on a secondary monitor and see it launch on my primary?

>>105769651
New standards require new toil. Of course if X11 works for your purposes then feel free to keep using it.
>Why shouldn't I be allowed to click on my game shortcut on a secondary monitor and see it launch on my primary?
Of course, you can! Window rules let you configure it if you care so much about this obscure use case.

>>105769555
Because X11 has no hdr support duh

>>105769640
SteamOS uses Wayland in game mode.

>>105769664
>New standards require new toil
WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE
>Window rules
Why must I manually configure this shit for each application? Can't it just work like it ALWAYS has?

>>105769327
starting to realize why my colleagues hate me

>>105769319
Found myself an answer in SDL, as always they already have it implemented.
Common Wayland usage error is assuming first enumerated monitor is the primary one (as I already suspected >>105769080) and you need to either use DBus (which understandably nobody wants to deal with) or do some fallback logic like picking the largest monitor or best refresh rate.
Windows have flag for primary monitor in MONITORINFO struct https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/ns-winuser-monitorinfo
X11 doesn't have anything primary info, so I guess it just consistently announces primary monitor first and SDL picks first from list.

>>105769696
the primary display should be a setting of the DE, not wayland, then the app should ask gnome,xfce,sway or kde what the primary display is.

>>105766572 (OP)
Wayland exists to fragment the Linux desktop even more, anyone saying otherwise is retarded or is playing dumb.

Valve's going to have to come in, strangle a few tards, and basically rewrite the function into Wayland aren't they? The idea that a display server doing the compositing can't identify to programs which is the primary monitor makes no fucking sense. I mean, Xorg, which has pieces going back to the goddamn big iron days which is why Wayland is supposed to be updating to get away from a lot of cruft, somehow manages to do it properly. How can they fuck this up and claim its everyone else's problem?

>>105769696
>X11 doesn't have anything primary info
XRRGetOutputPrimary for xlib. too lazy to look up the xcb name

>>105769678
Use case?

>>105769740
>The idea that a display server doing the compositing can't identify to programs which is the primary monitor makes no fucking
Use case?

Why are GNOME contributors so hellbent on shitting on everyone? Their insane arguments and positions don't even help GNOME in any way.
What are they trying to accomplish by being assholes?

I'm using wayland and I don't have any obscure usecases that force me to cling to tinkertranny windowing software. I've also touched grass, it may be related.

It is time to put this issue to the side for a while, chuds

>>105769740
wayland is not display server but a protocol between a compositor and apps. apps get a direct rendering buffer (gpu) then the compositor blits those buffers into the main back buffer and flips.

>>105769769
>>105769736

>>105769769
Use case for not being assholes?

>>105769769
they are working for free and don't owe you anything. not happy? fork or start your own de.

>>105769794
>fork
You don't get to fork something they're trying to kill dude, get over yourself.

>>105769814
xlibre

>>105769759
GNOME apps aren't allowed to program its behavior, that's taking away control from users. BIG NO NO. only GNOME can decide what your app can and should do, chud.

>>105769794
they are paid by RH and whatever foundation that handles gibs

>>105769740
Wayland developers unironically believe that applications shouldn't make those kind of decisions and that it should be left to the compositor.

>>105769848
This is getting heated.

since they do not allow you to set the refresh rate for gdm, and gdm doesn't follow what is set in gnome, gdm always sets the wrong refresh rate for my monitor. it sets 60hz when my monitor is 144hz. its really annoying because gnome uses gdm for lockscreen too.

i made a bug report that gdm wasn't reading things correctly. after some research, my monitor reports to default refresh rates. 60hz and 144hz. windows never had this problem, it would always default to 144hz. same with kde and even gnome on x11. but on wayland, it would always be 60hz with gnome.

i made a bug report, asking to default to the highest refresh rate. gnome developers told me not their problem, buy a different monitor.

i use kde now. even after buying a new monitor because i wanted 4k, i still use kde. gnome and wayland are dumb.

>>105769857
>today I'll use my neet time to make up something that didn't happen
>my mom breaking her back working all day to feed me must be so proud

>>105769875
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/1721

>>105769885
i am not only one with this issue. as you see, from bug report.

>>105769724
>Window server does not need to provide styles
>Window server does nor need to control primitives and network transparency
>Window server does not need to provide primary display <- you're here
>Windows server does not need to provide shutdown/reboot
>Window server does not need to provide Input API
>Window server does not need to initialize GPU

>>105769915
agree for everything

>>105769736
it's literally jewish trojan that uses the threat of keyloggers to shoehorn itself in

>>105768262
> from intel
In the same way X11 is from MIT.
Intel will be gone soon enough.

>>105769683
> Why must I manually configure this shit for each application? Can't it just work like it ALWAYS has?
No, everything needs to be re-written, from scratch.
Including old DOS games.
Needs to be re-written in rust.
Binaries need to be signed by GNOME foundation.

>>105769683
>WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE
Display servers are not Linux. Things change as they will. If the ecosystem decides that X11 is worse than Wayland, then you either have to get on the bandwagon or stick with X11 for however long it continues to be supported.
>Can't it just work like it ALWAYS has?
It does. You just described a very obscure use case. Most of the time when you launch an application you want it to launch on the focused monitor.

>>105770064
>You just described a very obscure use case
Obscure? Obscure??? You mean to tell me the millions of GPUs sold yearly aren't bought for gaming but for running fucking text editors?

only emannuale ebussy can decide where your windows should open. remember, he opens and positions your windows, you say thank you.

>>105770099
No I mean the case of "I click a shortcut on a secondary monitor and expect a window on the primary monitor"

>>105770064
It's not about one being worse or better, it's about what the corpos have chosen. Eventually Wayland will reach feature parity with X11, after a lot of redundant work and wheel reinventing.
Wayland was adopted so everyone can do his own thing without benefiting the competitors.

>>105769857
the only sure fire way i found to fix this across the board was to load a custom edid at early boot with only the correct mode defined.

>>105770111
How obscure is a functionality X11 always had? How obscure is a functionality Windows always had? The only thing that's obscure is Wayland esoterica.

>>105766646
That happens with windows too, some applications never remember what screen I moved them to and always open elsewhere.

>>105770139
>always open elsewhere
Like where, the primary display?

>>105769664
If this is solvable by a simple setting whats the big deal anon?

>>105770148
A 2nd monitor, then I have to drag it to the main one every time.

>>105770113
Can't disagree with your analysis.
>>105770130
>>105770151
If "the ecosystem" really wants it so badly, it will be proposed as another Wayland protocol and everyone will implement it.

>>105770127
it has the welcome side effect of being totally transparent and portable between X and wayland AND setting your tty to 144hz as well without changing modes when you switch. its really nice.

At least wayland isn't trans.

>>105769362
Whats your OS? and how can you be sure that their superficial, soulless culture doesn't seep into the design decisions of your machine?

>>105770184
I love gestures, I love swiping things to place, I love making finger movements on my trackpad and seeing things move around on my screen, x11 doesn't have that and Wayland does, simple as.

>>105770166
>it will be proposed as another Wayland protocol and everyone will implement it
In 10 years, maybe.

>>105770202
Strawmanning does not make me think you're discussing in good faith. Wlroots is generally quite receptive to adding new protocols.

>>105770212
>Strawmanning
How is it a strawman when Wayland has been in development for nearly 20 years and is still lacking basic UX features like global hotkeys?

>>105770201
Isn't that a DE feature

>>105770230
>global hotkeys
Supported via D-Bus. Compositors like Hyprland support it even more directly. Your point?

>>105766572 (OP)
>wayland doesn't leak information which monitor is primary monitor
wow such secure system, no fingerprinting!
>the program can read and delete every single personal file in $HOME
...

>>105770249
Show me evidence of OBS running in the background on Wayland and being able to start/stop recording on-demand with a hotkey.

>>105770250
the endgame is Flatpak + Wayland + GNOME

if only tinker trannies spent more time designing good API instead of bikeshedding.

for me this clearly seems like a bad API.
it should look something like
display = GetPreferredDisplay(appGuid, DISPLAY_FLAG_MEDIA | DISPLAY_FLAG_GAME);

on first launch it returns a display marked with certain flags and stores app guid and display settings in some db where it can be overrided by user.

>>105770249
>Supported via not wayland

>using gayland
nah miss me with that gay shit

>>105769202
abstraction retardism and being oblivious about the reality
they are not making a display server that is being used primary for desktop usage (even tho thats what is being done in reality)
they are making a display server that can be also used for kiosks/selfcheckout machines/ etc. etc. etc. so a lot of features that we realized are kind of mandatory for a display system in the last 20 years are missing because what if someone wants to use wayland in their little gift shop and they won't need it

>>105770267
Why are you using OBS anon? are you a streamer?

>>105770307
wayland is a protocol between the compositor and the applications. a compositor doesn't handle global input

>>105766646

Can't the game poll the system settings for the main screen?

>>105770323
Now I ask, what is their retarded reasoning for forcing desktop to use a kiosk display server?

>>105770329
Let me guess, are you going to tell me there's no use case?

>>105770349
i'd suggest giving up on the streaming career and the issue will be gone.

>>105770267
I don't use OBS but it seems to be a lack of implementation on their part:
https://ideas.obsproject.com/posts/2066/implement-globalshortcuts-portal

>>105770349
I fail to comprehend what the use case will be.
Most people don't need anything more than just taking screenshot.

>>105770368
>their part
Works on X11.

>>105770336
Compositors handle all input.

>>105770376
Because they implemented the functionality for it to work on X11?
Are you going to keep spinning in circles and die on this "works on X11" hill?
It's obvious to everyone that X11 is older and better supported for the time being. Keep using it if you want, I'm not saying you shouldn't.

>>105770166
> another Wayland protocol
Only solution is to fork wayland.
It will also be written in Rust, so it won’t have any bugs or missing features.
I’m already working on the CoC, it’s just about 900 pages now.
Mastodon and discord servers are coming up now…

>>105770383
X11 global shortcuts just work, globally. they didn't need to make obs support global shortcuts because they just work on x11.

>>105769097
>>105769097
the people building the hardware and the people building the software are completely different

The idea that you can have modern CPUs without the people making them knowing how they're made them is absolutely hilarious. Are you retarded?

In case you actually are serious and someone managed to keep that child level belief until adulthood, the truth is that there are experts, but very few of them are experts in more than one area.

Software devs aren't going to be hardware engineers, GPU chip designers aren't going to be experts in the minutiae of motherboard and CPU design, etc

>>105770390
Not how Wayland works, really.
But if you do fork it, please add support for self-describing file descriptors. That's the only reason it can't be network transparent.
>>105770391
Dig up the proof and show me.

>>105770405
bro, these people couldn't use a mouse. they worked on cpu's but had no idea how the cpu's they made worked. they worked in telecommunications and have no idea how their own phones, routers, switches, etc worked. they created drivers for hardware, and had no idea what the hardware was or how it worked.
they worked for intel, and couldn't figure out how to change the wallpaper on their windows laptop.

>>105770391
If we let wayland end-users have enough control to implement global shortcuts, how are we going to prevent them from disabling the WayBack(tm) screen recording and OCRing service so popular with Windows fans?

>>105770435
you look like that and say that

The community around this shitware alone will be the reason I never use it. Cringe.

>>105770410
> Not how Wayland works
Have they implemented proof against forking? Nice! I must say the MBAs are getting better at this shit!

>>105770341
they have a religious belief that is a good way of making software (even tho we are like at least 10 years into wayland and its only slightly better than X11 in some cases)

>>105770573
X11 has shit font rendering, makes me barf especially comming from MacOS, id call that greatly better instead of slightly better

>>105770573
https://blogs.kde.org/2025/06/02/revisiting-x11-vs-wayland-with-multiple-displays/

>>105769156
Yes it does. Through Xinerama and Randr extensions.
https://xcb.freedesktop.org/manual/structxcb__randr__monitor__info__t.html

>>105770586
>>105770608
now go and write a program that do basic operations like
>spawns a window with default decorations
>warps the pointer
>take the screenshot
>operate with the clipboard
that works on all the waylands
ohh you can't because wayland at its core is completely fucking useless and basically a display system for kiosks

>>105770586
No, it doesn't. You're just too rarted to use xft and freetype.

>>105770608
not reading that gay shit

>>105770586
The underlying font rendering for x11 and wayland is exactly the same. It's done client side on modern systems.

>>105770631
>what is scaling and dpi
non power users should stay out of the discussion.

>>105770201
X11 does supports touch inputs through the Xi extension. Translating touch updates into gestures is a DE/Toolkit issue.
https://xcb.freedesktop.org/manual/structxcb__input__touch__begin__event__t.html
>>105770240
Correct.

>>105770629
>>105770608
Going through their blog....

>>105770642
What is wrong with these people? Why do they obsess over nazis and cling onto an antiquated ideology that lead to nothing but mass starvation to death with communism?

>>105766635
this
we need t put all the x11 fascists in gulags

>>105770622
My programs are CLI, if you want to be handheld and everything done for you like that you can just go back to Windows

>>105770635
Available on both xorg and wayland and handled clientside. non devs shoul dstay out of the discussion

>>105768676
>Literally not an issue. You don't *have* to specify what monitor you want your window on, and it's best to let the compositor choose it for you.
No it's not you retard. My compositor does not know what my monitors look like from which ports on my graphics card they are plugged into. I have to specify this at some point so it knows how I want my windows placed. Not being able to say "This is the screen that I am looking directly at" is a full-retard decision that could have only been made by a RedHat or a GNOME dev

>>105768548
>You are either saying any new protocol literally has to include the previous protocol or be on the hook to make everything before work with it.
That is literally how wayland works, lmao. Wayland keeps compatibility by launching its own xserver called XWayland.

Wayland trannies don't even know how their own systems work and they're telling application developers that they need to listen to THEM, lmao.

>>105770665
>bro if you want to use basic 20 y/o functionality just go to windows
kek
and btw your programs are CLI because it is a cope of how shit GUI programming is on Linux (it also applies generally to linux "community" being in love with CLI/TUIs)

>>105770654
I can write walls of text on this but it boils down to that:
They are just bunch of brainwashed mentally ill fags who who had it ez enough so their delusions about the world don't shatter.

>>105768610
>ACTUALLY, ******REAL******* WAYLAND HAS NEVER BEEN TRIED
why did I expect anything differently from a company called redhat?

>>105770654
Because they are lame ass dorks. It was hip like 8 years ago and they are just now clinging to it, think it's some new thing because it finally filtered down to their basement dweller perspective.

Imagine a millenial still riding around a fixed gear bike and thinking american apparel is the new cool thing. Same vibe.

>>105770699
"bro"
youre spiritually a zoomer, if your overexposed brain doesn't let you comprehend just how good wayland is on a technical basis, maybe you should post this thread on /pol/ instead

>>105770729
bro you must be capping

>>105769885
>4 years ago
But don't worry, they'll get around to fixing it after they make ten more blog posts about how X11 are a bunch of Nazis

>>105766572 (OP)
i only know that i cannot have kicad working at is full in wayland... so wayland is not valid for my background

>>105769769
>Why are GNOME contributors so hellbent on shitting on everyone?
It's impossible to eject anyone from the GNOME project unless they just outright say they voted for Trump. Funny enough the CoC has done the opposite of what it set out to do and instead just protects absolute retards from the consequences of doing nothing except raiding other communities with their retarded idealisms.

>>105770729
In what fucking world do millennials not say "bro"?

>>105770754
>kicad
You are indian aren't you

>>105770729
>wayland
>good
just call it better and don't expose yourself as retarded shill

>>105770778
nah , they posted this recently
https://www.kicad.org/blog/2025/06/KiCad-and-Wayland-Support/
>These problems exist because Wayland’s design omits basic functionality that desktop applications for X11, Windows and macOS have relied on for decades—things like being able to position windows or warp the mouse cursor. This functionality was omitted by design, not oversight.

>>105770666
xorg can't tell the dpi scaling of each clients unlike wayland of which the protocol was designed explicitly to handle that.

>>105770778
Only Indians do circuit design?

>>105770795
Incorrect. You can get the Xft.dpi value.

>>105770805
this is for global scaling, lel. i am talking per app scaling.

>>105770805
Wouldn't you have to control that variable for every window, or is there a more elegant way to do it?

>>105770800
Only indians have dodgy english, and go for safe high income careers (since they have no soul and now will to live meaningfully)

>>105770795
Defending xorg is a matter of not really knowing how computers work

>>105770813
Applications can read the number and use the correct scaling.

>>105770816
No?

It's nice using my paid operating system so I don't have to worry about Wayland (or gnome) devs ever

>>105770821
>Applications can read the number and use the correct scaling.
it has nothing to do with that lel. it's about down-sampling when you blit app buffers into the main buffer. please learn how these things work.

>>105770821
Not an issue in Wayland

>>105770823
Which one ?

>>105770818
>of all non-english speaking countries only india has engineers that work on electronics
anon, you are deeply retarded

>>105770833
Wait are you actually advocating the legacy shitty way that wayland used to scale clients? There's a reason they moved away from that. The application having the information to handle scaling is the only correct approach. You can scale anything on xorg with xrandr if you really insist for some reason but that has the downsides that compositor-side scaling does on wayland.

>>105770839
whatever you say Upkash, defending this for this long tells me all I need to know

>>105770847
i am spanish i dont even know what upkash it
you guys really have indians living rent free in your heads

>>105770818
>Defending xorg is a matter of not really knowing how computers work
Says retard who can't even tell a window which monitor to launch fullscreen on or use shortcut keys on the desktop because he trusted neckbeards who also don't know how computers work.

>>105770795
>>105770805
>>105770834
>YOU CAN'T CONTROL PER DPI SCALING
>Yeah you can there's an entire variable for it
>LOL THAT'S THE WHOLE DESKTOP YOU IDORT
>No, the application can set DPI settings itself this way
>REE, REE NOT AN ISSUE IN WAYLAND, REEE

I'm just convinced Wayland trannies are nocoders who may as well be reading ancient greek for how much they understand this whole conversation. They just understand that one of their cultists told them X11 is bad, so now they think it's bad. Never mind that the reasons why are so arcane as to be gibberish to them.

Now, don't point out that they're retarded or they'll say you're brown.

>>105768614
yeah but xlibre was made by a bigoted chud so all distros have it blacklisted which is good and nice and inclusive and only racists have a problem with it

>>105770895
I'm curious about this anyway. How did a German guy saying "Freedesktop's CoC is pointless and has lead to massive issues so I'm not going to have one" result in "This guy is the second coming of Hitler. Neo-Nazis walk our streets"?

>>105770908
idk because labeling someone a nazi in his country is grounds for libel, but GNOME devs don't seem to give a shit.

>>105770888
>>105770843

wp-fractional-scale-v1, xorg doesn't have this. An app can do oversampling then the compositor will do the down-sampling when blitting. This how it is done on mac os.

>>105770888
There's actually a limitation and I'm shocked they haven't pointed it out yet. Says it all really.

>>105770922
You literally have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. The purpose of the wp-fractional-scale-v1 protocol is to move AWAY from the legacy method of the client oversampling and compositor downsampling. Why? Because it's objectively retarded and uses more resources for inferior results.
>but muh mac os
yes and it's bad and wrong on mac

>>105770834
>Not an issue in Wayland
What a retarded fucking statement, the per-application dpi scaling is only a problem on full screen applications per-monitor because the application is supposed to account for it.
But on wayland, you can't even tell an application launching in full-screen which monitor to fucking use. So it IS an issue, it's just fucking broken so no one can tell how wonderfully it works in your head.

I am so fucking glad the house of cards is falling around Wayland's ears and sooner or later it's going to get forked and RedHat dipshits will have to screech in private.

>>105770861
HATE THEM SO FUCKING MUCH REEEEEEE

>>105770922
The only thing linux was missing was a good UI to be better than MacOS and with wayland it finally got it. Not to mention the security upgrades

>>105770922
>talking about wayland
>Brings up Macos
Literally
Functionally
And actually
All anyone needs to know about Wayland trannies and their connection to Linux: They don't even fucking use it and can only think of examples from their home OS.

The eternal mactoddler seethes again.

>shit dm
>shit DE
>shit OS
>insufferable faggots infighting again
Like pottery

DWM > Wayland
It's not even close

>>105770954
>better than MacOS
>Doesn't run the software MacOS has
>bro just switch for the translucent windows bro you literally don't need anything else

>>105770985
dwm is not a competitor to Wayland.

>>105771004
I concede, you are right. Wayland can't even come close to competing.

avoiding desktop compositing is the only reason i ever use linux

>>105770954
>better than MacOS
I hate macshit but you are delusional if you think that only UI is what Linux needs.

>>105771003
>Doesn't run the software MacOS has
Thats an OS problem, nothing to do with Wayland, besides who the fuck uses Mac exclusive software, everything in their store is mom-tier jeet-made garbage.

>>105771024
Oh so you're a windows user, why are you on this thread then?

>>105771028
>better than MacOS
>not better UI than MacOS (debateable)
It's not Mac exclusive software, it's Linux non-inclusive

>>105766572 (OP)
This, but unironically.

>>105766680
Hope things get better for you soon, anon.

>>105768676
>I sorely miss network transparency
Highly doubt you even used it. Just another larper.

>>105771048
Theres not a single program that doesn't run on a mac that can't run on linux. If you don't know this you can't possibly know anything about Wayland

>>105771039
Because I'm Linux user too and I'm tired of being beta tester for 15 years but I'm not gonna buy apple hardware just to use their faggy OS.

>>105771074
>Because I'm Linux user
Liar.

>>105771073
Solidworks, Photoshop, Autocad... Usually shit that people use to have job.

>>105766572 (OP)
I will use macOS before I ever settle for gayland

>>105769128
What's the actual problem though? Just you sperging about words?
>MOOOOM THEY WON'T STABILIZE THE PROTOCOL!!!!

>>105770954
> security upgrades
Lol, xhost +
Put workstation on the internet
Receive free pr0n randomly.
It’s just like 4chan

>>105768391
how new are you
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/31329/commits

>>105771119
being an antisocial cunt will definitely help persuade the world to switch to wayland

>>105771116
Why is this even an argument? Macos is gay?
Fag, Linux is developed by the most mentally ill trannies known to man. If you followed your supposed standard, your OS won't have internet functionality and you won't be able to post here.

>>105771137
Not an argument and works on my machine.

>>105771165
>subjecting yourself to unnecessary latency to own the chuds

>>105769696
>mfw you need hundreds of lines of code with some fuzzy heuristic algorithm to determine something that should be a queryable system setting represented in one integer

>>105771073
Can you stop being a lying piece of shit?
>Won't run properly on M2, M3, M4 hardware that Mac user uses
>FCPX (Mac exclusive)
No Davinci Resolve isn't an alternative, Resolve is superior, Mac users will insist on FCPX
>Davinci Resolve
The Linux version is crippled
>Photoshop, Lightroom, Illustrator, XD, etc
No, some ass old Windows version that is partially functional is not acceptable for a Mac user, it has to run with the Adobe updater, be logged into their subscription and stay up to date with new releases
The one alternative make users will actually use is Affinity Suite, again no Linux
>CaptureOne Pro instead of Lightroom
Runs like shit on Linux
>Cinema4D
Again, latest version, Mac users are more likely to use Cinema4D for whatever reason, easy to use I suppose. Blender is literally the only FOSS worth a damn, but this won't be a substitute for C4D when Linux can't run their other software, plus they can just use Blender on their Mac anyway so why bother? Any worthwhile FOSS software is multiplatform and not Linux exclusive
>Logic Pro (Mac OS exclusive)
>Sketch (Mac OS exclusive)
>Xcode (Mac OS exclusive)

Any good software that is actually available for Linux runs as well or better on Windows or Mac + has all their own benefits that Linux doesn't have

It's the same old problem that Lincucks have a hard time acknowledging - the use case for Linux is very small and niche, because apart from being a cunt to actually daily drive, the most important thing is the software support is basically non existent

>>105771098
>Solidworks
>Autocad

This runs on Mac? After you google it I suggest you finalize existance ASAP.

>Photoshop
Runs on my machine

>>105771177
works as intended

>>105771203
>2025
>his OS doesn't come with a package manager.
The itoddlers wont ever understand the feeling of having a package manager with thousands of programs, once you feel it there's no need for meme paid ransomware because there's an alternative.

>>105771174
I am a chud though.

>>105771203
Hey so why are you on a wayland thread?

>>105771232
on some machines, 68% of the time, depending on timezone and moon phase

>>105771246
>because there's an alternative
there is no alternative you fucking clown, that's why no one takes linux seriously because of clowns like you
t. Linux user

>>105770484
There are multiple protocols that Wayland compositors can choose to support. You don't need to fork the entire thing to add your own feature. You just need to add another protocol and implement it in your compositor.
>>105770622
>spawns a window with default decorations
Same as opening any other window on a competent compositor (not GNOME). There's a protocol for it even: https://wayland.app/protocols/xdg-decoration-unstable-v1
>warps the pointer
How is this a "basic operation"? But yes, there's also a protocol for this: https://wayland.app/protocols/pointer-warp-v1
>take the screenshot
https://wayland.app/protocols/wlr-screencopy-unstable-v1
>operate with the clipboard
https://wayland.app/protocols/wayland#wl_data_device_manager
Part of core, so even GNOME supports it

>>105770669
Even in Wayland, you do have to specify to the compositor how the monitors should be arranged in virtual position space. The thing you want, which is honestly a niche use case, is knowing which output is "primary".

>>105771070
Sorry can't hear you over my Lisp-powered Wayland compositor built to jerk me off through the screen.

>>105771267
ok then show us your work, you need those expensive tools you also probably use them right?

>>105771267
THIS. So much THIS.
Everything in linux is SO NEEDLESSLY HARD for NO REASON. There will never be a year for linux gaming. It's literally a trash OS.

>>105771271
>Sorry can't hear you over my Lisp-powered Wayland compositor built to jerk me off through the screen.
Proofs?

>>105771246
I'm not a Mac user, I hate using MacOS. I switched my iPad pro out for a galaxy s9 ultra even though my main use case is Lightroom. I understand the Mac use case which Windows mostly covers. Linux doesn't not however.

>>105771296
Based. Keep the lackwits on CorpSlopOS.

>>105771303
Linux is not for faggots, if you studied some stupid design shit that requires you to use photo editing to enhance your boyfriends cock or draw some gay marketig thumbnail then you're better off using a Mac

>>105771287
Everything around you is build by using them, retard.

>>105771363
i knew it, you just a poser that doesnt even use that particular software, just a shill

>>105771417
Literally everything around you is build using such software, if you want linux to be non meme OS it should support it.
But I guess that your incomprehensibly damaged brain can't comprehend this.

>>105771481
yes poser i have basic comprehension
>everything is build with X
>therefore X is has to be good
i guess some of you are just into eating shit

>>105771495
Maybe hes Israeli

>>105768676
Sebbie, don't you have to work?

>>105771495
>everything is build with X
>therefore X has to be mandatory
I guess mentally ill kids are the main target of the Linux desktop and it shows, sad.

>>105771518
Climate monitoring stations run on Linux, what's your point?

>>105766646
the applications should be asking the DE what the "primary" monitor is, not wayland

>>105771525
my point is that Linux on desktop is meme and its target audience is bunch of mentally ill clowns (it shows given all the drama)
Everyone somewhat sane is forced into windows or mac or linux with gpu passthrough + win

>>105771553
Android is using Linux
ChromeOS is using Linux

Those are the most normie tier OS you can ever come across, how can you spew that nonsense when the evidence says otherwise? maybe you are the one with a mental illness

>>105771553
>Linux on desktop is meme
>because I said so
>I SAID SO
>LISTEN TO ME
>REEEEEEEEEEE
Kill yourself.

>>105771570
>Android is using Linux
>ChromeOS is using Linux
say no more, you are not old enough to be using this site.

>>105771590
??

>>105771157
>slurp slurp
>ooooo~~ uwu tim cock, cock tastes so uwuwuw
>slurrrp
>i love my macos!

>>105766572 (OP)
Look. Basically I'm just gonna not use wayland. I know... UGH I know... I'M SORRY!
It's just that I'm not gonna use it is all. Hahahaha.

>>105771625
>Not using Wayland
Racist

>>105769696
the consequences of freetard mental illness

none of you are in charge; you are neither writing the code nor taking the decisions. the people who do put a stop to xorg and there is nothing you can do about it.

>>105771902
Not anymore redtranny :'). Xlibre exists now.

>>105771956
i dont run code maintain by jeets in my pc. Sorry!

>>105770691
>How Wayland works
Seems someone doesn't understand the difference between a shim and an actual part of the protocol. Xwayland is an X server implemented using Wayland. A shim is not guaranteed to be 100% compatible with the protocol it is adapting. They are not going to force Wayland to be X to get their shim to 100% compatibility that is what the post is about.

How many times does this have to be repeated to understand that it is not wayland, xord, or even linux problem? This is a problem with loonix people attitude.
There is nothing in principle that prevents to implement these features, to write code TODAY, RIGHT NOW. Loonix people just don't want that.

See https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/issues/179#note_2982475
>support for the proprietary KDE display priority protocol was removed from SDL before the final version of 3.0 shipped in favor of the current sorted list + "best guess" algorithm.
They had a worked solution in SDL for KDE, but they removed it beause it's not "loonix way". This is not wayland, not sebastian wick. This is SDL. Same attitude.

Loonix people don't want to solve problems, they want to play the silly software government body game that issues some kind of offcial commandments how software should be desgined, before actually making anythin.

>>105772273
Compare it to the hacker attitude from this article https://webaim.org/blog/user-agent-string-history/
People just wanted things to work, and they just went and did it

The year of the linux desktop will only come after the year every jew, troon and manchild is purged and their circlejerk repos deleted.

>>105772273
>That is the crux here. They are not wayland apps, because wayland apps have to deal with it at runtime.
>In fact, there is no way around dealing with it at runtime because compositors can move the fullscreen window to any monitor at any time. What people are proposing here doesn't even fix the issue.
>Let me rephrase that: wayland works well and as designed.
Kek
Now I get why that anon called me Sebbie

>>105772273
That's a pretty wild peak into the minds of many insufferable people who cannot comprehend usecases beyond their own. This is why I gave up arguing upstream about wayland over 5 years ago.

>>105772273
lol. lmao even. hahahHAHAHAAHAH AHAHAHAHA

This is how linux dies, literally apple tier arguments to excuse their broken shit

>>105772273
mr wick really had the audacity to tell the factorio developer that he "doesn't speak for all users" when defining the problem and the usecase in the most clear and concise way possible lmao.

>>105766572 (OP)
actual UNIX OSes of the past create reference implementations for what they intend to push out to the world. if you insist everything should be the compositor's job, you better provide a reference implementation of that compositor like what x windows did or nobody will take you seriously.

>>105771902
Neither can they honestly.

>>105773076
The retards want to turn Linux into bargain bin fucking MacOS.

Most of the thread fly a few miles above my head. Is this just more Linux Things™?

>>105770338
Yeah, the registry key for it should be visible

>>105771525
>climate monitoring stations
Good use case
>desktop OS
Shit use case

>>105773262
That would be a massive improvement if they pulled it off

>>105766572 (OP)
I don't disagree. Wayland works as designed. It is designed to solve problems I don't have, and isn't designed to solve the problem I do have.
It is the future -- for other people, who are doing different things than me.

>>105772273
Those people exist only to sabotage. It's both malice and mental illness.
I've seen the mental illness part in countless foss projects.

>>105769006
> This. If GNOME implemented wlroots protocols it wouldn't be this bad.
To be fair, the long term benefit of GNOME becoming irrelevant by driving away every last person using it is worth the short term pain it causes.

>>105774348
>becoming irrelevant
Half of the linux fags use gnome and praise it

>>105774368
Echo chamber effect like with the "modern audience" buying woke video games.
The majority of people don't speak online, you only see the minority of vocal users. The woke people are the loudest, simple as that. They sole existence of them is to be attention whores and obnoxiously telling people what they should do and what you shouldn't do. Obviously you see lots of these posts. Normal user sees that there is no minimise button and thinks it's retarded and installs something else.