Thread 105779034

It's ogre for X11 Libre.

https://github.com/kaniini/wayback

>>105779034 (OP)
>Alpine Linux
>at all relevant in the (semi-)grand scheme of (any)things.
And nothing of value will be lost when Alpine removes itself from the Xlibre possible distros.

>>105779079
Simpler solutions that don't go against the current (and save people's time) will always win.

Debian will adopt, Ubuntu, then Fedora and openSUSE: Ogre for Xlibre.

>>105779164
>Simpler solutions
>lets just add another layer slathered in shit code on top of it instead
hurr

>>105779177
It is a simpler solution, it is just a minimal compositor that will host Xwayland and let people do their work in the backend.

Xlibre is a dead end that is incompatible with the current work the real people are doing underneath.

>>105779177
Less than 1000 lines of code against maintaining and extending millions of decades-old spaghetti code. Much more simpler.

>>105779205
>the real people
Are the ``real people'' in the room with you right now?

>>105779260
Dependencies:
wayland (wayland-server, wayland-client, wayland-cursor, wayland-egl)
wayland-protocol >=1.14
xkbcommon
wlroots-0.19
Oh look, decade & a half old spaghetti code. lol

>>105779328
Everything will be maintained by paid developers and the only thing that should be done is updating wlroots.

Debian will adopt this, you will see this soon. :D

>>105779034 (OP)
i like how he didnt use any pronouns and just said " Ariadne" several times

>>105779260
>Less than 1000 lines of code
>doesn't mention the several #include's
wayland discussion can never be done in good faith, can it

>>105779034 (OP)
Wayland is not hardware agnostic, it will change absolutely nothing. Also its comp layer on top of comp layer to run software, fucking retarded.

>>105779260
it uses xwayland, so the spaghetti is still there,
its litterally just instead of X its X+gayland

>another layer of shit for the layers of shit on the layers of shit
DESKTOP LINUX IS SAVED

imagine the input lag

>>105779260
if only the stupid name . . . way this way that

just stop with the gayland already

>>105781134
>>105781134
wayback - putting the gay back in Linux

>>105779079
I like Alpine. I don't know why it gets so little attention..

>>105779034 (OP)
At this point are there people who can't understand that that wayland and troons exist to sabotage the Linux desktop and everything they touch.

>>105779034 (OP)
cool, next they need to fix pipewire by building another layer of shit on top of the audio stack

>>105781723
ALSA works, I don't know why everyone hopped on the Poettering train to use PulseAudio (now PipeWire)

>>105779079
>Who cares about GNOME and Plasma dropping X11. I only use non-bloat with no systemd dependency
>N-no, not like that!

>>105781807
plasma is not droping x11, its just lower priority.

>>105780521
I do that too. I think they are mentally ill. But I don’t want to get cancelled. And I’m not evil enough to misgender them just to make them angry.

>>105779034 (OP)
>we have thrown away decades of work for 0 justifiable reason
>lets replace it with something made in 4 days with 0 fucking testing and force it on people
Huh? What the actual fuck?

>>105781807
>Who cares about GNOME and Plasma
I don't.

>>105781840
It'll likely drop Xorg with Plasma 7 but that's a long ways away.

>>105781864
>And I’m not evil enough
Afraid is what you mean, the moment you agree to reject reality and self censor for them it's over for you.

>>105779034 (OP)
>ariadne conill
do i even need to look this person up?

sorry tell me when wayland can let me stream my games window without having it open a separate window just to select which application to use

some combo of wayland, nvidia, and kde is unable to display 4k60 on my tv from 2019. I have to use x11 until they fix that

>>105782219
well, wayland is perfect. your TV is at fault.

>>105781887
They split kwin_x11 from the kwin_wayland session, so it will probably stay for a long time, won't receive new features, but bugs will still continue to get fixed. and even if they did drop it, unless qt drops the x11 backend, it will all still work just fine.

>>105781289
this is why

>>105782829
Goblina The Hutt holy fucking shit

>>105779205
Why do I need a 'compositor'?

>>105782829
Dios mio.

>>105782857
muh screen tearing but xlibre fixes that with compositor disabled

>>105781881
stop talking ok slick

>>105782857
because wayland is fucking retarded and *requires* one so that you can have wobbly windows and shit. having a compositor also completely disconnects your screen timing from the actual vblank signal, which fucks with tearing/vsync, emulators and all kinds of shit

>>105781886
You are a special snowflake

>>105782871
Never noticed screen tearing, so I don't need it.

>>105782878
that's some nerdy bullshit, wayland just werks.

>>105782928
>wayland just werks.
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?p=150645#p150645

>>105782915
its like you people thing screen tearing just happens for no reason, unavoidably. its really strange.

>>105782862
La creatura.

>compability layer
Why you guys like these manipulation shits

>>105779034 (OP)
I don't get it, it's just xwayland without wayland oe what?

>>105782915
oh hey i found one. this is from a .03fps difference between software and hardware.

>>105779034 (OP)
Alpine has desktop support?

>>105782857
>>105783263
Tearing isn't the primary benefit of compositors, alpha blending is. Anything that relies on partial transparency is SOL without that.

>>105779260
>Less than 1000 lines of code
>just ignore the includes, everyone!
what a colossal faggot.

>>105783384
I don't use transparency, I'm not trying to make shit look like liquid glass or some shit.

>>105783384
ok? we are just too different dude. i run openbox with no compoaitor and TearFree explicitly disabled. i have to go out of my way to hunt for tears (on desktop, games can still freesync (picrel inb4) and i obviously do not want transparency effects.

>>105782829
>women-led
>just a bunch of men wearing a wig

>>105783295
https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Setup-desktop

>>105783384
Transparent windows are a gimmick.

>fat tranny makes something useful
>/pol/tards have a broken mess maintained by a retarded ESL who doesn't know what bitwise xor is

>>105783263
tearing isn't even an issue on the xorg master/xlibre , the modesetting driver received tearfree years ago and it has been on by default for over a year, there just hasn't been a xorg stable release with it because the big cheeses over at freedesktop haven't done a release for like 4 years.

>>105782829
>>105782855
Dios mio...

>>105779034 (OP)
Based!
Ariadne will KILL Xlibre. She is not playing around, this is a fucking war! You 4chin fucks picked a fight with the wrong developer you assholes. Ariadne will make y'all pay. Just you fucking wait, Ariadne's Wayback will completely and utterly BTFO Xlibre!!

>>105785176
Hitler, I'm tired.

>x11 has been known to be shit since the 90s
>2025 and it's still not dead

>>105781743
Pulseaudio (and packagekit + policykit) forceful introduction was the catalyst that made me switch to debian etch at the time (because wasn't introduced there yet) after i experienced it on ubuntu, that lead me to the very path that culminated on devuan (with the introduction of systemd in debian jessie).
Nevertheless i'll give the devil what's due: the niche pulseaudio fills is to load multiple sound servers at once, as in you may need jack for a single application and use the alsa backend on everything else, maybe you need to use oss for an old ass game, etc... I don't know what usecase pipewire is ment to fill though and whatever it is why couldn't be integrated in pulseaudio is another can of worms probably.

>>105779034 (OP)
>rootful
Lol.

This solution ends the xlibre usecase

>>105779034 (OP)
>I'LL FORCE YOU TO USE WAYLAND EVEN IF IT'S NOT DONE YET
This just means a bunch of shitty, niche distros are going to get fucked
How is this my concern? Most people still use Mint which still doesn't even have a working Wayland branch.

>>105785176
THAT'S XHE SHITLORD

>>105785002
> haven't done a release for like 4 years.
*10 and counting
The second Wayland gained steam they put into motion the plan to kill X11. They had the solutions to all of X11's problems the whole time, but chose to continue developing shitware because of sunk cost fallacy.

>>105784118
>something useful
where and to whomst
no one except tinker trannies even knows what an Alpine Linux even is.

Meanwhile, Wayland is literally advertising xlibre on every page Linux has news on by being such spiteful, drama-seeking trannies.

>>105782855
why are freetard devs always like this?

>>105779205
>Xlibre is a dead end that is incompatible with the current work the real people are doing underneath.
what work 'real people' are doing?

>>105783384
>alpha blending
Oh ok, so not any real work real people are doing and instead Windows Aero shit that even Windows abandoned because no one gives a nigger fuck about transparent windows

>>105779034 (OP)
post a screenshot of wayback actually working before i call my mates the jannies.
it doesn't have to be good or anything, or at anything, just minimally working is fine.

>>105788569
NVIDIA is working to support Wayland better and the Xorg support is effectively frozen. Xlibre is struggling to not to break the Nvidia drivers. It is a dead end.

>>105788660
>It is a dead end.
what's funny is the fact if freebsd switches to xlibre by default (which wouldn't be unrealistic), nvidia would be forced to support its ABI.
if i was associated with xlibre, i would make that my priority.
and before anyone responds like a retard, nvidia supporting freebsd is and always was a business decision, not charity. so no, they won't just drop that support.
the scenes would be hilarious if this happens, with the red-hatted mostly no-coding CoC trannies seething at the red daemons coming to the rescue of xlibre.

>>105788821
Problem is that xlibre is a contentious fork. Many of the changes metux proposed for Xorg breaks compatibility (that's why they were reversed), most companies expect Xorg to be abandoned soon and noone want to change anything for it.

Xlibre happened too late. FreeBSD already has Wayland, wlroots, Sway and LabWC available in their official repos without using ports.

"I use Linux as my operating system," I state proudly to the unkempt, bearded man. He swivels around in his desk chair with a devilish gleam in his eyes, ready to mansplain with extreme precision. "Actually", he says with a grin, "Linux is just the kernel. You use GNU+Linux!' I don't miss a beat and reply with a smirk, "I use Alpine, a distro that doesn't include the GNU Coreutils, or any other GNU code. It's Linux, but it's not GNU+Linux." The smile quickly drops from the man's face. His body begins convulsing and he foams at the mouth and drops to the floor with a sickly thud. As he writhes around he screams "I-IT WAS COMPILED WITH GCC! THAT MEANS IT'S STILL GNU!" Coolly, I reply "If windows were compiled with GCC, would that make it GNU?" I interrupt his response with "-and work is being made on the kernel to make it more compiler-agnostic. Even if you were correct, you won't be for long." With a sickly wheeze, the last of the man's life is ejected from his body. He lies on the floor, cold and limp. I've womansplained him to death.

>>105789048
you cant actually be banned from 4chan

>>105788569
>Windows Aero shit
Windows only did transparency effects on the borders iirc, which doesn't need compositors.

>>105788959
you are incorrect ,he was breaking the ABI for drivers, which is normal for Xorg, and even so the changes he made broke the nvidia driver, not any of the opensource ones, and those breaking changes were reverted in xlibre as well.

you retards keep forgetting he was working on the master, nothing he did ever made it into a release, so it litterally doesnt matter, the reality is they didnt like metux ,you can see this from comments on his merge request, and they didnt think many of his changes were meaningful (a fair criticism) and decided it wasnt worth the headache to clean up /improve the xserver. the banning was completely political because they only did it after he forked it. they had already been rejecting most of his merge requests for months

>>105788959
0.333333 Fedora tips have been deposited into xour account.

>>105788959
>FreeBSD already has Wayland, wlroots, Sway and LabWC available in their official repos without using ports.
what do you mean? are you a bot? post a screenshot per >>105788596 to prove otherwise.
freebsd has a base system (single source tree) and ports. wlroots and co are available as ports. so that sentence of yours is a special kind of tard. or maybe you're a /g/eet who is asleep now.
wayland ports existing doesn't mean much. corporate customers will continue to use X for years to come. and wayback (OP's bait) doesn't even minimally work currently (feel free to prove otherwise with a screenshot).

>>105791688
>X is old and spaggetti
>no one wants to work in X
>X is deprecated by RedHat
>Someone is working in X but its just just some bad commits
>X gets forked
>no one cares about Xlibre
>Xlibre is just a single developer nazi
>Xlibre commits are just bad commits <--- we are here
>Xlibre will never implement modern features
>Xlibre will never implement HDR
>Xlibre will never be default in any distro
>Xlibre is not competing with Wayland
>Wayland will never be deprecated for desktop usage

feel free to modify or update the timeline

>>105792215
Idk what's going on in this thread, but "port" is meaningless. Anything not in the base system is a "port". The BSDs handle software repos no different than most linux distros. There's the base system, the official vetted by base maintainer hands port repo, and then there's the unofficial third party port repo.

> it's over for xorg
> proceeds to show something dependent on xorg
Xwayland is xorg codebase and need to maintain it

>>105792369
X11 will not die, it will live on as Xwayland for a very long time and that's okay.

>>105792369
The difference is XWayland is basically a stub compared to a full X.org actual X11 server.

>>105792279
Only things i will take issue with is that not all of his commits were bad, he also added a new extension Xnamespaces which is potentially useful. VRR handling will probably get fixed too , since he has done some work on that already.

and that While he probably won't implement things like HDR himself, he does actually accept merges , so it may happen.

the future I see for xlibre, is probably going to be FreeBSD and other unixes that don't intend on moving away from the xserver, as it could function as a drop in replacement with new features, especially if they implement supporting wayland clients and it works. there are enough bits and pieces floating around already that this can happen without much work.

>>105792369
Leveraging XWayland in a "rootful" configuration is a strategic move towards a more simplified display environment. While existing methods allow for the operation of X11 window managers atop Wayland compositors, the Wayback project is specifically engineered as a direct replacement for X.Org server binaries. This initiative aims to replicate the current Xorg operational paradigm while abstracting away the inherent complexities and maintenance overhead of its legacy backend.

>>105782855
gorg

>>105782829
>>105782855
la creatura...

>>105779034 (OP)
>compositor
to the garbage it goes
they are retarded

>>105792475
>>105792487
>>105792667
people don't just X11 for the app support.
it's funny how retards never realize that.

you might say its Xorger

>>105792667
that's some fancy talk for a diversionware (subtype of vaporware) that doesn't even minimally work (feel free to disprove this with a screenshot per >>105788596)

>>105792667
sounds dumb, the main benefit of keeping the xserver is not application support but rather hardware support, lots of older hardware do not support hardware accleration under wayland, but do under X.

Isn't Alpine troonware?

>>105779034 (OP)
Added Alpinelinux to my list of tucked trooned out distros never to touch.
Alpine can't into packaging properly. Firefox-esr crashes.
Setup-desktop fails everything.

>>105793340
*cucked

>>105793162
it's workflow support actually for many of us.
for example, no wayland compositor i tested supports picom-style custom shaders applied to specific windows, because "muh scanout". my eyes would start hurting within minutes without this.
another example is x11vnc. i think i tried something with similar functionality when i tried wayland. but besides being pre-alpha quality, the wayland compositor (or rather its hooked IO devices) are actually not always active. this doesn't work if for example the monitor turns off (lol), which makes this totally not workable.
there are more examples for users and developers alike. and the fact that many SUPPOSED solutions are not universally applicable (because there is no one wayland implementation) adds to the shit-show.
basically, for every valid reason to hate X11, there are three to make you hate wayland more.

>>105782829
Every Russian mans pants got tighter with this post.

>>105779079
> lost when Alpine removes itself from the Xlibre possible distros
They can take busybox with them

>>105794458
> russians
Every russian guy I know fucking hates russia with a passion.
Idiots didn’t realize they were our best allies.

>>105793088
> diversionware
Exactly.
Before that becomes usable, we’ll all be running on wayland in a playground on top of X using WaylandX.
Some will recognize this as “weston” which already does this, but doesn’t have application mode.
And yes, wayland was developed entirely as an Xlib application.
It’s beyond comedy.

>>105788569
> alpha blending
The only wayland use-case is a transparent terminal window.
Which people will immediately turn off once they try it because it’s annoying as hell.
And causes a 200% speed reduction.
> no i need to see my AI generated loli while playing roblox, too.
You’re proving my point.

>>105781864
>I think they're mentally ill
>but I'm not "evil" enough to "misgender" them
I'm not evil enough to reject reality and indulge in this farce. Words have meaning, and these kinds of people want to wear them as an accessory at the expense of their meaning.

>>105795521
Shut up. Don't try to justify your transphobia. Transphobia doesn't make you any cooler or smarter than trans people you dumb bitch. Ariadne is an infinitely better programmer than you will ever be you nocoder. That is the only thing that matters in FOSS. Show me the code or shut the fuck up.

>>105795588
Transgenderism isn't real. I don't have to justify anything. You are a sin against god.

>>105795634
GNOME and trans people are the gods in FOSS world.

>>105779034 (OP)
It's not really surprising.
You could always just run entire X sessions via Xwayland rootful windows
All wayback is is an Xwayland rootful launcher.

>>105781743
This. Alsa is quite a powerful system too, but it feels sometimes like I am the only person on earth who knows how capable a pure Alsa system can be.

>>105779205
as real as your pronoun

i will not use a /pol/ troon software like xlibre

>>105797571
So you're going to use a /pol/troon software as wayland instead?

>>105781807
nobody aside fromretards use gnome, it's the IE of DE

>>105781864
>misgender
bad news, anon, you already have the mentally ill mindset

>>105782928
>werks
>can't run basic software that X can

>>105784118
>broken mess
>still managed to do what wayland can't
ah, I see you too love rejecting reality just like your developers,
how long until you, too acquire an axe wound?

>>105781807
I don't use either nor i need a DE specifically, right now i mainly use xfce4 but even if xfce will eventually drop x11 i can have a close enough experience by using lumina or icwm+xfe, anything missing can be covered with standalone applications.

>>105795588
>transphobia
it's called survival instinct, retard-kun
it's perfectly normal to purge neurotic individual from the collective so they can't do harm

>>105795588
>That is the only thing that matters in FOSS. Show me the code or shut the fuck up.
whoah there lad! that's literally the same stance the xlibre dev has! are you a nazi?!

>>105795790
>gods in foss world
>somehow everyone absndoned them the moment something viable come up
it was real in my mind

>>105797571
>hate troonware
>use wayland
anon, I...

is someone looking at all this bullshit and actually thinking "year of desktop linux coming any moment now"?

>>105797666
>satan trips
Well, since the dark powers were so generous with me i'll add also that all the DE forks out there (Trinity, Mate, UnityX) won't magically cease to exist if x11 gets dropped.

>>105793340
They probably couldn't even figure out how to package Xlibre.

>>105797856
not all (probably even "many") linux users are linux evangelists waiting for "the year of the linux desktop"
the truth is that linux being different in /any/ way is enough to prevent at least some people from switching, so if you're waiting for a time when linux can be dropped in place of windows without any effort or (even temporary) sacrifice on your own part, you may as well stop now, because that's not going to happen. by definition.
also, even hypothetically speaking it did become that, an imperceptible clone of windows, then what is there to gain from switching? it's a paradox. you cannot hope something is both /better/ and /the same/ as what you have.

>>105793340
i actually quite like Alpine. it's not currently installed on anything i own but i do want to try it out on real hardware at some point.
i'm not so petty or politically-driven to not use a software product just because i don't like the opinions of one of its' devs. though i do hope someone makes external xlibre packages for it, since i'm not using wayland (for technical reasons)

>>105779034 (OP)
>Alpine
I only care about GNU and *BSD. Take your non-GNU bullshit somewhere else.