Thread 105879996

>Why does nobody on the security team have any interest in collaboration with xxxxxx? Well, speaking for myself only here – when I looked at their official chat linked in their README, I was immediately greeted with alt-right propaganda rather than tactically useful information about xxxxxx development. At least for me, I don’t have any interest in filtering through hyperbolic political discussions to find out about CVEs and other relevant data for managing the security lifecycle of X.

>Without relevant security data products from xxxxxx, as well as a professionally-behaving security contact, it is unlikely for xxxxxx to gain traction in any serious distribution, because X is literally one of the more complex stacks of software for a security team to manage already.

>At the same time, I sympathize with the need to keep X alive and in good shape, and agree that there hasn’t been much movement from freedesktop in maintaining X in the past few years. There are many desktop environments which will never get ported to Wayland and we do need a viable solution to keep those desktop environments working.

>>105879996 (OP)
Gnome won
Systemd won
Gtk won

I thought xlibre was supposed to be apolitical?

What he said is true. You don't start a software fork with "you are silly because of your beliefs so we are different than you" and expect people not to take a political stance on it. All you had to do was fork it, put why on the readme.md and then maybe update your code of conduct with a brief statement about fanatical zealots.

>>105880003
Fpbp

>>105880091
sow the wind, reap the whirlwind

this is the consequences of peoples actions like poettering. they're responsible.

>>105880810
Can you tell the class what did poettering do?

>>105880003
They won at destroying Linux, yes.

>>105880003
>>105880574
Samefag. Gnome lost.

>>105880091
I looked on mastodon to see what the virtue signalling faggot crowd is saying and they're accusing them of being "literal nazis" and bringing up stuff like "lynching trans children". I don't see how counter-signalling DEI in a readme implies any of that. Seems like they forgot their schizo meds.

>>105879996 (OP)
>At least for me, I don’t have any interest in filtering through hyperbolic political discussions to find out about CVEs and other relevant data
I don't think he's being sincere

>>105879996 (OP)
To be clear, he isn't against politics being a part of open source projects... So long as it's his politics.

>Without relevant security data products from xxxxxx, as well as a professionally-behaving security contact, it is unlikely for xxxxxx to gain traction in any serious distribution, because X is literally one of the more complex stacks of software for a security team to manage already.
Did pulseaudio or systemd have these?

>>105879996 (OP)
>Pottering says something
Unless it's "-ACK!...HELP!... I CAN'T... BREATH!!!" I don't care.

>>105880003
Fpbp
Flatpak won too

from what i have heard, wayland only exists because xorg is too insecure to sell linux desktop machines to the government. implementing a keylogger is very easy on xorg.

>>105879996 (OP)
>I was immediately greeted with alt-right propaganda rather than tactically useful information about xxxxxx development
>the project birthed by being strongly rejected for political reasons has a general chat where people chat politics right after its inception
woah

>>105881065
yes. redhat, suse, canonical are backing systemd.

https://systemd.io/SECURITY/

>>105881163
did it also have that in 2012?

>>105880827
They NEVER do.

>>105880860
>"destroying"

>>105881155
This. What the fuck did he expect?

>>105880003
hell yeah
vroom vroooom
gnome gang get in here!

>>105879996 (OP)
Pottering is based beyond what /g/ can handle.

>>105881174
yes. 2010 actually.

>>105881200
grim, the microsoft hand really reaches long

gnome gang

>>105881212
microsoft heart linux

>>105879996 (OP)
That's the most level headed take on Xlibre I've seen yet and that's coming from POETTERING of all people

>>105879996 (OP)
Is he wrong? There was zero need to turn the fork into a political statement yet chuddies can't help themselves.

>>105880003
Still not going to use these.
If major distros gatekeep sensible choice one needs to go to distro that give you the choice you want or make your own.
I don't like when someone makes a choice on my behalf. If you don't give me a choice I'm going to use something else.

A home user doesn't need to care about some bullshit security problems. This is the same argument as against people that want to use Windows 7 or Windows without updates. Your system doesn't need to be completely secure. Nobody is going to hack you. You are not directly connected to the internet. Xserver by default has X forwarding disabled so the only attack vector is local. There is no need securing local thing. If you have a malware on your system you already fucked up.

The security problem only applies to company servers that for some reason have X forwarding enabled and the machine is directly exposed to the internet and badly configured. This isn't a good setup. Such machine should be accessible only on company private network. You want to connect to it from outside then you need VPN or onsite connection to the network. The same thing applies to network shares. And web servers should have a proxy and forward requests. If someone rawdogs direct internet access with the internet obviously it is possible to breach even if "secured".

>>105879996 (OP)
>xxxxxx
>instead of just calling it by name
You people are so fucking embarassing.

>>105879996 (OP)
>pottering joins chat
>jewhammer1488: i hate trannies and jews so god damn much
>potttering leaves chat
lol

>>105881841
If only

>>105879996 (OP)
is he wrong? you guys suffer of terrible political brainrot, just fucking saying

>If you don't agree with my politics you're an extremist
>t. Political extremist and also sell out
Okay. I don't care what insane people think because they're insane and no one should be paying attention to them in the first place.

I met Poettering a few years back, having had a long history of being fairly skeptical and frustrated with systemd. He seemed like an alright and reasonable guy and spoke very well on the particular subjects. I still don't 100% agree with its direction but if anything I respect his knowledge and dedication to the project.

>>105881933
>is he wrong?
it's a rare case of him sounding almost reasonable, yes. which is not something you would expect from a member of the mastadon tard circle.
the xlibre guy acted very retardedly using MAGA-like talk in the README, and using people like zogduke to promote the fork before it even became fully public.
all he had to do was not add a CoC to the project (or use a no-CoC one), and focus on technical stuff. that's how you act meritocratically, which is what matters. even talking about being "apolitical" is retarded.
but in any case, many of us (non-/g/eet people in my circles) are happy with the relatively bug-free xorg experience. and we will wait and see when it comes to xlibre. we will happily use it if the project matures nicely, and doesn't become abandonware itself.

>>105879996 (OP)
>alt-right propaganda
ive read it and didnt find anything abnormal, the radical left is embarrassing if you dont signal their "virtues" they intantly label you as an extremist.

>>105882184
>No one on Earth can ever say "Make <x> great again" because that one faggot said it that one time
How about you people that are brainwashed by MSM fuck off? No one cares about your opinion.

You faggots are acting like this dude quoted Hitler in the README.

>>105882212
whining about DEI was the worse part. it's a volunteer open-source project!
he was clearly "emotional" and simply didn't behave like how meritocratic old-school open-source guys behave.
acting like it was all accidental lingual collisions is just pretending to be retarded (i'm being nice and assuming no genuine retardation is at play).

>>105882288
Yes I'm sure you're genuine and not a concern troll.
>old school open source guys
Participated in flamewars on USENET and the mailing lists everyday. They even called each other mean names like faggot and asshole.

Pointing out that mentally insane political pushing faggots ruining everything are ruining everything isn't a "political position". It's simply stating the obvious.

Fuck them and fuck you.

>>105882288
It was certainly dumb because as an American-centric project he will have a hard time attracting lib contributors
And in America the libs are about the only people who do ANYTHING for free. Maybe those conservatives in the Rust belt also, but these are old, depressed and most importantly work manual labor jobs, not programming.

>>105880003
Windows won. As it always does.

>>105881275
this... of all people i was not expecting him having a decent take

I will take the Office of Secure Engeneering

...

>>105882212
You do not understand the Linux community then. To them, he may as well have curb stomped a tranny and pissed on xir/xem. And they happen to be the overwhelming majority of vocal Linux users. Go on fedi and you'll see most people are anti-Xlibre. Same with "based" X. Same with any distro forum.

>>105880003
won what? the corporate whore contest

>>105883809
I understand them just fine. I'm doing the smart thing and ignoring them.
>go on fedi
No. wtf would I waste my time on social media for? These people are loud and annoying. They're like the faggots protesting in the streets. You know how much of the population they make up? Less than 1%.

Normal people ignore them and mind their own business. I don't care what they do. I don't care what they talk about. I don't care what they're angry about today. They're always angry. If it wasn't this they'd be crying about something else. All they do is bitch and moan.

Normal people hate them. Abnormal people hate them. The only reason they get away with it is because it's now illegal to take them behind the school gym and stomp them until they learn it's bad to be an ass bandit. The main issue with these people is their parents didn't beat them and the school bullies weren't allowed to stick their heads in the toilet during class breaks. They never learned their words have consequences and they've never been in a real fight. Which is why they hide behind the Government and any other organization they can to enforce their insanity upon others. The only reason they don't get more push back is because most people don't give a fuck about them and assume no one else is taking them serious (because most people aren't).

They are loud annoying faggots. If you ignore them or laugh at them you take away any "power" they think they have. They invade social spaces and become moderators because the only way their opinions can exist is if they silence everyone else.

They can do nothing to stop people from working on this project or any other project. Let them continue banning people and pissing them off. These people create nothing. They are parasites. They can not exist without a host.

>>105883894
The power they have is being able to develop while you sit here shitting and pissing yourself on 4chan.

>>105879996 (OP)
>I don’t have any interest in filtering through hyperbolic political discussions
How fucking convenient, now.

>>105881282
forker was rejected for political reasons, and its an anti corporate readme, not an explicitly political one, use of americanisms is purely tongue and cheek as the author is german.

>>105884027
>and its an anti corporate readme, not an explicitly political one
Corporations don't do DEI anymore though. They threw the trannies under the bus the second it became politically convenient

>>105880070
That alone makes it extremely political.
If you're not on my side then you're against me and all that.

>>105880810
what consequences? someone makes a fork? what do you think that word means?

>sow the wind, reap the whirlwind
fart would be a more appropriate metaphor

>>105884052
clearly you havent looked at any corporate backed opensource projects lately, boards might have rolled back policies, but the people in charge of the development certainly havent.

>>105879996 (OP)
WAHHHHHHH POLITICS SCARE ME!!!! POLITICALLY UNSETTLING SYMBOLS CANT BE NEAR MY COMPUTER!!

>>105884027
>its an anti corporate readme
that is not what pottering said, he said about entering the chat and full of alt right bullshit instead of technical discussions, xlibre is an awful project for how is managed
and i believe both that wayland is a fucking mistake, and that pottering is one of the worst shit that happened to gnu linux

>>105882879
>It was certainly dumb because as an American-centric project he will have a hard time attracting lib contributors
it takes longer to get proper contributors when you tell the lgbtqniggerfaggots to kill themselves but it's always worth it in the end because a genius who doesn't have mind worms will actually bother with the project

>>105879996 (OP)
Why is there the symbol of chaos?

>>105884277
That is a symbol of Eurasianism, retard. Poettering is a known Duginist-Eurasianist.

>>105880070
Most "apolitical" stuff is just crypto trumpists

>>105884342
The eurasianist symbol is the chaos symbol, retard.

>>105881933
I agree with this. Software is just software, code composes it and only that should matter. Any faggot steering for either side of the political spectrum should be hang.
>but he's a bad person because xyz
Don't care, don't shit up the discussion areas and we're good. This shouldn't be hard.

>>105884182
moderation problems plague everyone, especially if you are a small project, metux and other contributors arent creating those discussions.

>>105884342
>Poettering is a known Duginist-Eurasianist.
Uhhh... based?

>>105884514
Why would Dugin, a Russian nationalist coopt an ancient Jewish/Hebrew symbol? Makes no sense.

>>105880070
It is, his issue is that community chat isn't censored in off-topic chats

>>105880003
>C won
indeed

>>105879996 (OP)
Pottering is a retard. Who cares what he says?

>doesn't use the readme for its intended purpose
>instead of just being /better/ than the competing software (like they insist they are) they have to use the grift of "but we're not political"
Idk man, maybe just make the software better? Surely if it just works better people will use it, no? They /are/ capable of making better software, right?

>>105879996 (OP)
Running xlibre now on artixlinux.
Cope and seethe faggots, you will never be a real women.

>>105884704
If C won, Wayland wouldn't be written in rust, Cnile

>>105886158
>gnome
C
>systemd
C
>gtk
C
>Wayland wouldn't be written in rust
there are a trillions of wayland compositors, most of them are written in C

the world runs on C
C will outlive every language except asm.

>>105879996 (OP)
Checked matrix but it's literally nothing.

usecase for politics?

>>105886267
It's hard to justify nuking blacks and jews without it.

It's hilarious how inane dumb bullshit occupies the minds of midwits everywhere. "teh readmez" they exclaim. the fart-sniffing babble they talk about. it's about everything but the programming. pathetic and senile.

>>105886158
The core wayland libraries are written in C. Every compositor uses them. This also applies to wayland-scanner which every client uses. Most wayland compositors are written in C or uses wlroots which is written in C. They use libdrm, written in C. libgbm, written in C. xwayland, written in C. dbus (for desktop portal), written in c, pipewire (for desktop portal screen capture), written in c.

>>105886824
also they all use libinput, which is written in C. xkb, written in C. Graphics libraries (opengl, vulkan), written in C.
99.9% of the code is written in C, in all compositors as an end result.

>>105879996 (OP)
blood for the blood god!

>>105886838
the only language where " wayland is implemented in ..." is valid is xml ;)
i just checked smithay since rust was mentioned, and it does depend on

libdrm
libgbm
libinput (and libudev)
libseat
libpixman
libwayland-client
libwayland-egl

but they are ALL OPTIONAL.

>Pottering's thoughts
literally stopped reading. academic midwit wankery. touch grass you fuckin incel.

>>105879996 (OP)
>I sympathize with the need to keep X alive and in good shape, and agree that there hasn’t been much movement from freedesktop in maintaining X in the past few years. There are many desktop environments which will never get ported to Wayland and we do need a viable solution to keep those desktop environments working.
why cant he have just said this without the other nonsense? didnt want to get whipped by his masters?

I don't use tinker troon / MSM brainwashed groomer slop or gnushit slop, so it literally doesn't concern me (i had sex today).

>>105884188
be the genius you want to see in the world

>>105887189
>(i had sex today).
masturbation isn't sex

>>105881127
>from what i have heard
good goy

>>105879996 (OP)
It's really telling when all people talk about in the main chat is politics instead of about the actual project. Some people really just need to shut the fuck up or take it to another room.

>>105881370
No one is forcing you to use wayland or systemd, anon.
Stop being schizo. The devs can decide what to use, If they don't care X bc it's stupidly complicated, they will drop it.

>>105881973
ok, Lennart.

>>105882288
>whining about DEI was the worse part. it's a volunteer open-source project!
...that he exclusively maintained for the past 11 years. While at the same time RedHat was deliberately suppressing merges for new features because they wanted to kill it.

He had every right to be frustrated with their shit. He did the right thing and forked the project, effectively putting his efforts where his mouth is. That is more than what can be said to most people on this board including you.

>>105886286
>nuking blacks
if only

>>105880003
thats detrimental, gnome is destroying gtk and bigd is destroying loonix.

>>105888707
Libadwaita is good

>>105887980
>they don't care X bc it's stupidly complicated
Wayland in practice is an order of magnitude more complicated because it forces every DE to reinvent multiple wheels and work around fundamental defects that X doesn't have.

>>105880091
Don't even need a statement, just don't accept new contributors or PRs. Then MAYBE accept contributions from people on a basis of their activity and initiative in the issue tracker.

>>105883165
what about the steam deack vulkan api an new new nvidia drivers? what about it running every server everywhere. id say linux wins.

Thank you based goddering for btfoing the ch*ds

>>105887189
So many meaningless buzzwords. Maybe try speaking English next time?

>>105886176
>there are a trillions of wayland compositors
Name 10 Wayland compositors.

>>105889590
>I will not use more secure more modern and better supporting just works software
>Because the devs who had to implement the protocol might have it harder than jus implementin x11 'just do what u want including keylogging'

>>105890255
Wlroots alone has more compositors written for it than X ever had. Specifically because the API of wayland (and specifically wlroots) is a lot better to work with than the abomination that is Xorg.

>>105889590
>Wayland is more complicated
>Has never written anything for either X or Wayland
There is a reasom everyone who actually writes code instantly embraced Wayland while everyone who is unemployed and does not write code kept screaming like you.

>>105890402
naw its because wlroots does the heavy lifting and its fairly well implemented, if everybody used wlroots, there wouldnt even be a problem.

>>105890414
took 15 years, that is not an instant embrace.

>>105880091
>>105881275
>>105881282
>>105881933
>>105881973
>>105882184
>>105882288
If you hate freedom so much why don't you faggots go live in North Korea?

>>105879996 (OP)
>>105880091
I like Xlibre and I respect pottering for being relatively sane. But yeah you're right, Metux sucks at PR and Lunduke really isn't helping anything. The community is hardly moderated and Metux is mostly absent outside specific Github threads and email chains.

>>105890402
>Wlroots alone has more compositors
Name 10.

>>105890497
kys.

>>105890497
they just hate freedoms for others, their freedom is important

>>105879996 (OP)
This faggot has a chaos logo right fucking there and I bet nobody even purged him.

https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/pull/56
why would one even need anyone's opinion, those devs are literally fucking retarded

>>105891214
get new material shill, this is more than a month old and has already been discussed ad nauseam.

>>105891264
you think they can develop intelligence in a month or what

>>105879996 (OP)
"People need to grow up. One shouldn't care less about what person writes software and what his views on the world might be. You're all embarrassing yourselves."

This is the only appropriate response to people using political viewpoints as some sort of attack vector.

How people find the energy to care about a fucking display server so much I will never understand.

>>105892089
The answer is short: Mental illness. There is no other reason.

>>105881127
>implementing a keylogger is very easy on xorg
So instead gubmits use microshart winjeet with a dozen different keyloggers and now even an automatic screenshoter. Even the most plain ubuntu is safer than any winshit with a dozen entreprise security features.

>>105879996 (OP)
>Pottering's thoughts
It's Alpinedev thoughts though
https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/merge_requests/86092

>>105880003
People actually use gnome these days? We've really scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard we crawled into the first circle of hell in that case