Thread 106096416

Why is old junk like Model F/M keyboards and CRTs now seen as a more premium, high quality, and expensive option over modern equipment? Was some of our shit really higher quality 20-30 years ago?

I swear I used to offload these to dumpsters by the dozens. Now people pay hundreds for them.

>>106096416 (OP)
nostalgia
also someone has probably hoarded a lot and is gorging prices. like they did for nes and snes

>>106096416 (OP)
>seen as high quality
Are you retarded? Ofcourse they are high quality

>>106096416 (OP)
Modern equipment is made of cheap flimsy plastic.

>>106096657
>shit manufactured to be as cheap as possible to make and ship
>the same but old

>>106096416 (OP)
>no media controls
DOA

>>106096832
Those old keyboards had a thick steel chassis. And the plastic was high quality too.

>>106096416 (OP)
Doesn't the model M have like 2 key rollover?

>>106096416 (OP)
CRTs are only seen as desirable by the kind of deranged hoarder that browses /vr/ and nobody else.
Model Ms are sought after for the spring buckle mechanism that doesn't really get made anymore.

>>106096416 (OP)
Because all those things were made in America and were built to a much higher standard than anything you can buy today.

>>106096416 (OP)
>Why is old junk like Model F/M keyboards and CRTs now seen as a more premium, high quality, and expensive option over modern equipment?
nostalgia is a mental illness, these things are utter dogshit by current_day standards
>Was some of our shit really higher quality 20-30 years ago?
not it was not

>>106097067
seething chinkoid

>>106096958
The Model F doesn't have this problem

>>106097067
>>106096605
>muh nostalgia
what a weird way to cope with the best years being behind you

>>106097184
i'm a superior caucasian whitoid, I've been there in the 90s, my parents owned these $2k monitors, they were dogshit, made your eyes bleed, wasted so much electricity and produced so much heat.
we jumped on the first lcd available at the time because it was unbearable, we never looked back.
I've recently had to use a crt monitor at work and it was an awful experience just like i and everyone else in the room (much older than me who were there in the 70 or 80) remembered it.
>>106097219
>what a weird way to cope with the best years being behind you
I'm not the one coping, I like current day tech, there is not a day in my life where I regret tech from 30 years ago, my family was rich and had all these things, big tv, c64, consoles, etc, I've seen them all in my childhood, I still prefer what we have nowadays by far, I'm very glad I'm not living in this era again.
I'm currently living my best years because current tech is very nice, no matter what mentally-ill nostalgiafag have to say

>>106097265
>we jumped on the first lcd available
You just outed yourself as either a retard or a liar, because anyone who actually lived in that era remembers how dogshit the picture quality of those monitors was. It wasn't until like 2010 that LCD monitors even began to approach the color range and contrast ratio of a CRT. Nobody except clueless computer illiterate office monkeys would have tolerated replacing a modern 120hz flat CRT with a shitty 60hz TN LCD panel that had a 1:10 contrast ratio and 5 degree viewing angle.

>>106097318
>You just outed yourself as either a retard or a liar, because anyone who actually lived in that era remembers how dogshit the picture quality of those monitors was
lcd in the early-00 were fine, I don't remember the exact model we had though...
>It wasn't until like 2010 that LCD monitors even began to approach the color range and contrast ratio of a CRT.
no body gives a fuck about color if the monitor is raping your eyes.
>Nobody except clueless computer illiterate office monkeys would have tolerated replacing a modern 120hz flat CRT with a shitty 60hz TN LCD panel that had a 1:10 contrast ratio and 5 degree viewing angle.
none of this matter when you eyes hurt in front of a monitor

>>106096416 (OP)
Supply / Demand. Those old technologies legitimately had drawbacks that people at the time hate e.g. CRTs are fuzzy as hell and that's a core part of the technology, no way around it. So, as new technologies were invented and popularized, ones that didn't have such obvious drawbacks, manufacturers and consumers jumped on it as the new technology. For manufacturers, it makes no sense to produce something with outdated tech when there's no demand for it. So all the resources are diverted to producing goods with the new tech. Time passes and eventually consumers start to fray, with some realizing the old technology's drawbacks are preferable to the new tech. However, by that time, the old tech isn't being made anymore. Short supply and growing demand means that prices rise. This, in turn, makes normies see the return of retro stuff as a new clout to chase. Manufacturers see a bunch of people willing to shell out money for some old technology and want to get in on it, so they produce only a limited amount to cater to them. Because they aren't over producing the old tech, prices stay high.

the fact you have people regularly complaining about things like dead keys on their almost new chinkboards, while things built in fucking 1981 still work like a charm, should speak for itself. they were built to a standard rather than a pricepoint and cost retarded money even at the time.

the one in your picture is a reproduction of an M style board with F style switches, by the way.

because those cost $2000 to make at the time

>>106097318
>You just outed yourself as either a retard or a liar, because anyone who actually lived in that era remembers how dogshit the picture quality of those monitors was. It wasn't until like 2010 that LCD monitors even began to approach the color range and contrast ratio of a CRT.

I am still using a LCD from ca. 2005 as second monitor and it is not so bad. But it gets a bit hot.

>>106097484
>the fact you have people regularly complaining about things like dead keys on their almost new chinkboards
My keybord is from the 90s and still just werks

>>106096416 (OP)
nobody likes modernity anymore, and people have truckloads of money to throw around at consumer shit nowdays.

>>106096416 (OP)
Old things weren't cost cut to death.

When it comes to keyboards specifically, higher quality keyboards where more standard. Even outside of Model Ms I have a Dell keyboard with ALPS switches and it's head and shoulders better made than anything Dell is willing to supply now.
Granted those keyboards where much more expensive than the $5 chiclet shit you get with PCs now but modern cost cutting infects everything.

You could spend $300 on a keyboard and it's no more reliable than a $50 one and it's because the things that go inside the $50 keyboard like the electronics, PCB and SMT process are going to be nearly the same thing going into the $300 KB. It ends up just being the nature of modern electronics manufacturing which is inherently cost cut.

Old keyboards are just built differently, you can debate all you want if a modern keyboard is or isn't more reliable than a model M (considering I just repaired a model m) but the inherent nature of companies not looking to cut out every penny leaves you with a product that feels more robust and different.
The fact there are surviving examples after 30+ years only leads more people to a conclusion something is more durable and to be fair there is a level of quality necessary just to age out that long regardless of use.

>>106096416 (OP)
Jews convinced boomers to sell out, and it didn't take a lot of convincing.

>>106096416 (OP)
>Was some of our shit really higher quality 20-30 years ago?
ALL OF IT WAS BETTER
APPLIANCES ARE WORSE
VEHICLES ARE WORSE
THERE IS NOTHING I CAN BUY THAT ISNT SOMEHOW CHEAPER AND LESS RELIABLE THAN A THIRTY YEAR OLD VERSION OF ITSELF
seriously, go buy some wooden clothes pins and compare them to one of your grandma's. Genuinely every single object out there is a cheaper version of its older self.
wires are thinner, metal swapped for plastic, greasable parts replaced by parts that you can only replace, plastic is thinner and thinner, electronics have cheaper components, gears are plastic instead of metal.
don't even get me fucking started on planned obsolescence.

>>106097387
>none of this matter when you eyes hurt in front of a monitor
Your settings were fucked up then holy shit were you running your CRT at 50Hz or something?

>>106098840
>Your settings were fucked up then holy shit were you running your CRT at 50Hz or something?
Most CRTs only supported 50/60Hz at high resolutions.

>>106098888
Most CRTs were designed for 80Hz?

>>106098978
Run the CRT at 800x600/80 or at 1024x768/60. Most people chose the latter. Even most high end models had a 60Hz mode at a higher resolution.

>>106096416 (OP)
Anybody that looks at a kentucky made model m and just assumes it's like a common membrane board shat out by taiwan in the 90s has never pressed a single key on the model m.
The thick plastic, the steel backplate, and of course the satisfying comfy clack of the bucking spring rocker switches is truly something special.
Of course it also costs $150 which actually really is pretty good for what you're getting.

>>106099421
That's a skill issue then, you can't use a CRT incorrectly and then throw a fit that your eyes hurt.
Then again, I'm well aware of people running them at 1280x1024@60Hz which is even stupider because that's a 5:4 resolution on a 4:3 monitor.

>>106096416 (OP)
I've been using the same old BTC DIN connector keyboard with numpad and macro key on my main rigs since the early 90's (keyboard itself is older) and still going strong today. Impossible this shit wasn't built better.

The Corsair keyboard from 2012 I inherited from my older brother still works fine and is acceptable to type on, while the one he bought to replace it years ago died and he bought another one to replace that one just recently.
It's had god knows how many cups of coffee and water spilled on it and always works again if you just leave it to dry for a few days.

>>106100411
i have more or less the same exact model except in all black, with a volume up & down key next to the mute button, as well as with a memory recall button and rgb button (the rgb is always off)

G1 - G6 keys on the far left.

>>106100439
Having a tactile scroll wheel for volume up and down + a physical mute button is such an essential feature that I can't live without it.

>>106096416 (OP)
No, but it depends on the item in question. Model M and F keyboards were made better then cheap modern membranes, but they themselves are cost cutting designs from super expensive terminal gear from mini computers. Because they shipped with IBMs there used to be a shit ton of them, but after 30 years of being out of production they are sort of rare now.

CRTs sucked, the hype was from bucking the trend and hording high end models like trinitrons for dirt cheap when offices were switching to flat panels 20 years ago. CRTs have cool properties, but big heavy screens that cannot scale well into larger screens to keep up with improved resolutions were doomed and by consequence all the nice ones are super desired for honestly niche reason: screen response, blur, and native scan lines.

And to answer your last point: we are old, people who grew up with these items now have considerable discretionary income to pursue these out of production items from their youth.

>>106096416 (OP)
Cause of Redditors and by comparison to the stuff that's "not junk" now it's top quality

>>106096416 (OP)
because modern tech gets progressively worse. Buying new, decent peripherals that are comfortable to use and will last long usually costs slightly less than vintage stuff that was designed by competent people and made to last long.

>>106100636
>Model M and F keyboards were made better then cheap modern membranes
Model M had a cheap membrane sheet replace the capacitive PCB of the F as a cost cutting measure.

>>106097044
ps/2 line is one of my favorite industrial designs ever.

>>106096416 (OP)
I never used a Model M, I hear they used high quality key switches that people loved using. As for CRTs, they're good for displaying the kind of things that were designed for them and in particular this applies to old, low-resolution stuff which just doesn't look good / normal when scaled to a modern screen.

>>106096416 (OP)
Because they were better.

>>106096416 (OP)
IBM M is $500 keyboard inflation adjusted.

>>106096416 (OP)
CRT color reproduction was more accurate than LCDs and Plasma managed to get to even after two decades of existing.

As far as keyboards go... this is my membrane keyboard I bought for about 10€ in around 2007. Still works. (removed CTRL to show off that its actually membrane, [spoiler]ignore the mess[/spoiler]). Chances are I'll never switch it out. I even got used to the retarded PGUP PGDWN HOME END layout.


>built in america
nah. has nothing to do with where its to do with WHEN. these things last a lifetime because they were made pre consumerism full takeoff.

>>106101250
The F cost way more

>>106101252
forgot pic

>>106101156
Good point I forgot to clarify that despite the buckling springs, the model M is a membrane keyboard. The early model F had solenoids underneath the keys to replicate the feel of a beam spring teletype as they were afraid of consumer backlash towards cheapening peripherals. Really it is the evolution of the personal computer from being a luxury to a necessity when we track the system included keyboards.

>>106101307
>early model F had solenoids underneath the keys
huh? sauce? i've heard of solenoids but not underneath the keys

>>106096416 (OP)
higher build quality.

>>106098888
My cheapass ImageQuest from 2005 could do 768p at 88Hz just fine. No flickering noticeable.

i blame "retro" youtubers for this
some things are actually worse now than they were before (e.g. cars, but that's due to regulations against muh global warming), computer peripherals? not so much

>>106097044
this is true, i would break apart old hewlett-packard lasers and marvel at the american engineering. my old ibm keyboards would last forever. mutts don't have a clue about politics and they allowed themselves to get replaced, but as engineers they were worthy of highest honours

>>106102386
>t. never typed on a model m

>>106097318
true. this thread is full of larpers

>>106098812
abso-lutely

>>106102402
It's like brutalist version of blue switches.

>>106096416 (OP)
for keyboards, they were heavy duty workhorses that didn't break while current tech is cheap membrane based junk.

for CRTs, they produce better blacks and higher contrast, and high end models can reach as high as 120Hz. It took 20 fucking years for flat screens to equal both of those with OLED and Microled (and OLED degrades while Microled has no monitors available), and even then those screens are fixed resolution while CRTs are multisync (every resolution is native resolution).

>>106097318
You're wrong.
I switched from 17" EIZO CRT so far from the cheap one to relatively cheap 15" Iiyama LCD and the sharpens and quality of image felt surreal.
You have to understand almost no one could afford high end trinitron for home use, you had some horrible generic monitor with no focus, curved screen and washed out colors.

>>106097387
people used screen protectors on CRTs and set them to 70-100Hz. The only people who got their eyes raped were the poor folks who ran Amigas without a linedoubler (so, at interlaced 60Hz).

>>106098888
>Most CRTs only supported 50/60Hz at high resolutions.

anything from the late 90s onwards could do higher frequencies, especially at lower resolutions.

>>106099421
I never ran shit at 1024x768 because it made everything too small to be usable for desktop usage, and for games it dropped the framerate too low. This was in 1998.

>>106102604
i guess it depends on the screen size. 1024x768 was perfect on a 19" CRT that i used in mid 00s. i had to turn the refresh rate to 75Hz because the flicker of 60Hz was way too annoying.

I love my GDM-F520. As sharp as an LCD, an order of magnitude cleaner motion than on OLEDs, beautiful high contrast colors, absurd resolution support. 1080p120hz, 1200p109hz, 1440p90hz, 2160p60hz. Perfect geometry, spot on convergence, no noise or whine of any kind.
The closest thing to perfection humanity ever had.

I could notice flicker for refresh rates 60 and lower, but I was never bothered by this in any way. Interesting how people trashed their monitors by overdriving them in such a manner.

>>106102759
>overdriving
Anon, CRTs move their beam horizontally 70,000 - 140,000 times a second. Meanwhile vertically the beam moves at like 60 - 160 times a second. It literally makes no difference to the CRT even if you overclock the poor thing to 500hz, which people have done. It's still nothing compared to the kiloherz range of horizontal refresh.

>>106096416 (OP)
In old times things were produced to last but producers quickly realized that if something is lasting 50 years, then you'll not buy a new replacement for that 50 years and thus they will go bankrupt and now everything is made to break.
Also, some people just prefer the feel of old tech. Add to that the retro fad, dimishing numbers of these things and muh collectors treating it like some serious business.

Reminds me of how Fiat126p was a joke car that you could buy used for a crate of beer in Poland. Nowaday, because they are not produced for years, and people were foolishly scrapping their little boys, they are genuinely rare and considered classic.

Consumer NPCs are too retarded to understand what real quality is. That's how we ended up with the current state of products. See pic rel. People now debate whether Plovelxn or Vovoly are better. Pure NPC psychosis.
>>106096416 (OP)
>keyboards
The only thing modern keyboards have in common with that is the PBT in the keycaps. Other than that you have
>wireless + battery (planned obsolescence)
>shitty PCB
>low quality chink switches
>hotswap (an additional point of failure) because the chink switches are low quality
>memes like some cheap aluminum to give the illusion of quality (see >>106096657 NPCs think that if a thing looks quality it's actually quality)
Basically things aren't built to last anymore. They're built cheaply and NPCs have been psyopsed to be ok with it so in a way it's a win-win situation. NPCs are given the illusion of quality through consumerism memes, and chinks make a shit ton of money. Both are happy. Things will not change.

>>106097044
by European engineers who fled to the US post WW1/WW2*

>>106096416 (OP)
Because many products in the past were made without planned obsolescence. The materials sere better, some designs were even better than what we get today. I had seen model M's still alive and kicking, while LE keyboard with new generation switches and useless bells and whistles get rekt sometimes under a year.
Some CRT's with minimal manteinance still work today, while some LCD's get fucked because the lamp or the inversor dont work anymore, or newer monitors get the led backlight fucked because some capacitor blew up.
I remember the days in which Computer cases could even withstand a person, nowadays some could not even get disassembled without some part bending

>>106103056
There was lots of cheap horrible trash back then and everything was much more expensive.

>>106102785
CRT's, at least the ones mentioned here, were multisync and not fixed at all. You've got a maximum clock/bandwidth to be mindful of, but you can choose how to use it, and driving the display at the exact same resolution but with a higher refresh rate causes it to wear out much faster over time. That's why all display modes continued to default to 60hz, ntsc territory or not, centuries after vesa was phased out.

>>106103056
modern keyboards are built to tickle the childlike brain of the NPC
>wireless + timebomb battery (planned obsolescence)
>hotswap because the switches suck ass and it gives the NPC an illusion of special snowflake customizability while also introducing an additional point of failure (see pic)
>surface level "quality", e.g. a cheap aluminum case, foam inside the case to alter the typing noises, Durex lube in the switches
>tranny aesthetics to pander to nostalgia and a childlike brain
Old keyboards would usually last at least 10 years.
Modern "keebs" (like trannies call them) last way less than that even with memes like hotswap, and are far less reliable.

>>106102785
>Anon,
Stopped reading there. You write like a passive aggressive turbo troon.

>>106101307
it all comes down to making people get used to lower quality and accepting it as the new normal

>>106100411
I have a cooler master mechanical keyboard (built by the same company that used to make Filcos, IIRC) and it still works flawlessly after 10 years of continuous usage and I mean >10h a day. No double typing, no firmware bugs, no wireless (fuck that shit). I spilled energy drinks, coke and beer on it, but gave it a good wash with some dishwashing soap, distilled water and IPA.

After hearing about how we're now "spoiled for choice" I tried looking for a replacement and holy fuck, everything sucks now and has garbage QC. You either have overpriced nostalgia bait built with modern low quality standards, or wireless tranny chinkshit that explodes or has issues like chatter even when new. I tried looking for old boomer-style products like Leopold, Ducky and Filco (you know it's good shit if it gives zoomers the ick) but as far as I can tell enshittification and a major drop in quality control is universal. I can't find any Leopold in Europe. I can't blame these companies, modern consumers are so fucking retarded and suffer from brain rot, so it'd be stupid not to exploit them. There's also the issue of boomers now having nostalgia brain rot, so even if they make a no frills boomy boom boom keyboard it's still going to suck because boomers will buy it just for the IBM or famicom keycaps and manufacturers know that so why bother.

>>106102747
I wish I jumped in the bandwagon cause I saw these being sold for $50 even as late as 2021.

What is the best quality keyboard from today that has precise actuation and is also very fast for typing, while also having the full layout plus media and volume buttons? I like the extra buttons on Logitech office keyboards and the layout of the G213. But membrane slop is just too slow and sticky for me.

>>106103178
Personally as I've grown into my young adult years I have found to be the most fond of the industrial keyboard aesthetics, childhood nostalgia or not. Gamer brand stuff never interested me, I liked the professional and serious looks that indicated the function of older hardware.

>>106103320
You already gave up PS/2 so why would any of this bs matter?

>>106103345
>You already gave up PS/2
I have a PS/2 port on my computer that I use for my office keyboard.

>>106103331
Same, but I'd be willing to put up with (almost) any aesthetic as long as the thing is built well.
A bigger issue now is that not only does the gamer stuff suck, but even the classic/industrial/90s-2000s aesthetic is no longer indicative of a no frills, reliable product.

>>106103345
The Model F reproductions ship with USB-C, so what is your point? Is that a detriment?

>>106097024
Modelfkeyboards.com

There was nothing faster, more responsive and compatible than PS/2. USB keyboards/mice are a meme.

>>106103056
>Because many products in the past were made without planned obsolescence
not only they didn't have planned obsolescence, they were intentionally built to last, that was a very important marketable property. seems like consumers of today are psychologically trained to renew everything after 5 years

>>106103461
You are utterly wrong. It takes 1 to 3 milliseconds to transmit a keypress event over PS/2 due to it's abysmally low bitrate. USB with 1000hz is equal or faster, even ignoring that most PS/2 keyboards and mice had internal polling/update rates way lower than that. A typical PS/2 keyboard scans it's layout at like 60hz.

>>106103023
You forgot about knobs.

>>106097024
To think that Model M's were just severely cost-cut Model F's...

>>106103509
>psychologically trained to renew everything after 5 years
It's the tiktok-style consumerist ADHD brainrot where they have to get new thing fast. They can barely afford rent so getting some weak dopamine hits from a text saying "your package has arrived" is the only thing left resembling happiness.

>>106103453
>$400 for the base model
>$1200 to tick all the boxes
>$650 for the repair kit
Kek holy shit, our buying power has REALLY gone to shit if these are simply the old prices that are inflation-adjusted.

>>106103645
These are indeed essentially the original prices inflation adjusted.
That being said, the Model F was from an era in the IBM pc where you were spending almost as much as a car on your computer and its software, and it is why IBM personal computers were not in many american homes at the time.
It wasn't bad compared to others though, inflation adjusted 40k for an ibm 90k for an hp, etc.

>>106103645
They are taking the piss
Unicomp sells model Ms for under $200
Model Ms are cheaper to make but I don't think Model F's are that much harder to make where it means double the price.
Unicomp is even using American labor.

>>106096416 (OP)
>Was some of our shit really higher quality 20-30 years ago?
Massively, though I contend that the Model M is overrated. It was itself a cost-cutting replacement for the Model F mechanism, and really the only things it had going for it over Fs of the time were
>the layout, which is basically what modern keyboards are still using as a basis (admittedly a big advantage over contemporary Fs); the Ellipse Model Fs eliminate this issue however
>cheaper, both back then and now (but Unicomp's pushing it with their Model M prices these days)
>being made for way longer and available in far greater numbers
But the 2-key rollover and horrible non-destructively-reversible membrane assembly are major issues. The latter is especially becoming a problem in recent years, with the melted plastic rivets starting to fail en masse due to aging plastic and wear from use (particularly on pre-Lexmark era boards).

CRTs are a different beast. I think they're overstated as a strict necessity for retro gaming, but they do have legitimate use-cases (especially for the PS2 in general, since its interlaced video signal encoding is dodgy and gets butchered by most digital displays' built-in analog converters and/or upscalers, and PS2 emulation is still iffy).

>>106103817
>The latter is especially becoming a problem in recent years, with the melted plastic rivets starting to fail en masse due to aging plastic and wear from use
I bolt modded my unicomp since humidity in storage ate the membrane and it wasn't super difficult considering I never used a dremal.
I do honestly think all new repros should all be designed with holes instead of stakes

rubber dome keyboards are the best keyboard technology. ive tried them all

>>106102320
i have a 14" viewmaster here from 1996 which does 768p at 85Hz as well

>>106103793
does unicomp not sell the mini M / SSK in ivory?

>>106104084
They don't sell any boards in ivory anymore. Not for a long while.

>>106102759
overdriving? what do you mean?
did you know that DOS and a large number of DOS games actually ran at 70Hz? like the prompt and most 320x240 games were running at 70Hz. it's why for example the tick rate of DOOM is 35Hz instead of say, 30, because 35 is half the refresh rate DOOM uses

>>106104127
(also yes, this does mean that unless you're using a multiple of 70Hz when emulating DOS games you're doing it wrong and anything with smooth scrolling/animations will look worse than they should)

>>106102747
>As sharp as an LCD
lol

>>106096416 (OP)
bros im coping.
is this inherintly bad?
im coping wiht being old?
or does "cope" not mean cope in the original sense of the word and it means im in denial about something?
im confused bros. help me.
if im coping then im coping, what else can i do?

>>106104419
i believe the meme usage of "cope" is telling someone they should cope with something they are apparently against/having difficulties with/in denial about, rather than already are coping with said issue.

basically it's a newer spin on "deal with it"

>>106104465
okay so its meant more in that "you are in denial deal with it"
but sometimes you see people use it against people who are literally actually coping. its just crazy.

>>106104486
it's usually used negatively, that is that it's bad that they're coping with something, even though in regular usage coping is a good thing

>>106104347
Don't underestimate the uniform .22mm aperture grille with the best electronics CRTs ever had.
This shit resolves the SENSOR NOISE of my photos just as well as LCDs do at 1200p.

>>106104606
bros im coping or trying to cope with the fact that I can't tell if im "coping"

bros.
am i mad or are you mad?
who decides?
if you can say im mad and ascribe that emotion to me then it follows that I am allowed to do the same and you are made if i say so.
If not, then doesn't that mean I am what I say am and you are what you say you are?

>>106101246
I dont know anything about this, is there a side effect with CRT like picture burning into the screen?

>>106097477
thats not the case for CRTs because nobody makes them

even when there is a demand, nobody can make them

>>106104877
crt gets burned in pictures if you dont supply it with constant movement

it shouldnt be drawing the same picture all the time, things like windows desktop is bad because you know, there is the windows tool bar always visible

on the other hand, movies on CRTs are great for longevity

>>106103094
Wrong you black skin leftoid. Take a look at mobile phones before they turned to "smartphones". The old mobiles were built for BBC (big battery capacity) and rarely had to be charged, now these so called "smartphones" cant survive 2 days while every app you like or want is riddled with ads and ragebait content.

>>106104687
classic troll trap. say a good thing in a bad way so you lose whether you agree with it or not

>>106104877
>>106104913
Late CRT pretty much solved burn in. You'd have deliberately display static content for thousands of hours before any degradation would become visible.
Doing that by accident is practically impossible, because due to drift and just you changing geometry settings, the tube wouldn't display eg windows taskbar exactly in the same place for any significant amount of time.
Powerusers of the time can testify, they put tens of thousands of hours daily driving their CRTs on desktop, and they just wouldn't ever burn in. The guns wore out before that ever happened.

>>106096416 (OP)
Everything is quantity over quality nowadays.

>>106105155
i've never burned in a crt, not even one i used for 10 years every day for desktop tasks, like regularly spending hours browsing or reading with many static elements. i used a screensaver and turned it off at night but that's all i did in terms of avoiding screen burn. people now seem way more concerned about it, perhaps because oled's are all they're familiar with and those seem to burn in much easier

>>106105249
Why the fuck is everyone using that word so much

>>106103056
I think part of it is survivor bias. The cheap old shit or poorly designed things wouldn't be saved after they failed.
But yeah, a lot of old tech is still kicking because it was made to last.

>>106097265
>$2k monitors, they were dogshit
Some were perfectly acceptable, Sony GDMs, etc. There were good and fuck awful CRTs, like everything else. All of them were noisy cunts tho.

>>106096416 (OP)
Yes. I'm currently typing on a Model M from July of 1988. Kinda speaks to their longevity.

>>106103290
CM Storm QFR-i? They are great, I still have 3 filcos somewhere in my house

because they were built to last and are not cheap plastic shit from China that falls apart in two days.

>>106106888
Yep. Even the gamer stuff was better back then, but I gues the CM was an exception since it was made by Costar. Filco is still making keyboards apparently and I found a store that sells the majestouch for cheap ($100) and it has the only modern meme that matters (PBT keycaps) but I can't find any recent reviews. I do have an anecdote, one of my friends bought one 2 years ago and it started sending gibberish to the PC after every keypress and had to return it

autists and/or retard soibois consumerists with disposable money

>>106098888
mine does 85hz at 1600x1200 (160hz max at 800x600) and it's not even that high end, so much for being "rich" and owning "$2k" monitors

>>106105741
> All of them were noisy cunts tho.
Wrong though. Most PC monitors were entirely silent.
It's only the TVs that whined due to their low 15khz horizontal refresh.

>>106107084
I got into CRTs to save money. Back then you could still snag 21" GDM's for like 50€, and they would BTFO any gaming monitor on the market.

>>106096416 (OP)
Why would you care? Are you in marketing or something?

Are capacative buckling springs better or simply different to cherry mx red switches and their copycats?

>>106100411
my friends got the 10 keyless one, its fucking disgusting but that things been used for 13 years while he spills pepsi on it every year and doesnt even wash it off and yet it still works

>>106098812
There's more people, more wealth, more demand, but not really more resources. Those have increased mainly due to improvements in efficiency and process.
This race to the bottom you see in everything is the natural result.
>>106104877
every CRT (and early LCD) I owned could burn in given enough time, but with CRTs you can just reset the screen and the burn-in is cleaned off. I'm sure if you leave a static element there for thousands of hours and never reset the screen, the burn-in would be permanent.

I got a model M for free randomly, and it was collection dust in my closet. That is, until my current keyboard just stopped working overnight, all I had was the model M.
Honestly it's not that great, and I really wish it had command keys, they even have little voids where they would go just to torture me.
But at least I can trust this thing to last forever, my previous keyboard was more comfortable but it just randomly died one day, fuck that.

>>106108725
>but with CRTs you can just reset the screen and the burn-in is cleaned off.
No you're confusing your memories of LCDs/Plasma with CRTs now. Or confusing degaussable magnetic discoloration with burn-in.
This >>106105155 is an accurate representation of CRT burn in. CRT burn in is EXTREMELY slow, but permanent.

>>106106043
>Model M from July of 1988
sup, March 1988 here

>>106103023
Are there any modern keyboards that are high quality and built to last? I'm in the market for a new one.

>>106110232
https://www.pckeyboard.com
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/

>>106110232
I'm looking for the same thing. So far I've excluded everything aside from
model m/f clones
filco
leopold (can't find it in europe)

dunno if I'm missing anything

>>106110271
The issue is that I do use my keyboard for gaming and I've heard that buckling springs kinda suck for that. Are they considerably better than other key types in terms of durability? Also I do really like having volume controls on my keyboard and a pause play button. Those Unicomp ones look really nice though.

>>106110494
>Also I do really like having volume controls on my keyboard and a pause play button.
why are you zoomers obsessed with volume buttons and knobs? I never have to change my volume

>>106110508
I do every video and game seems to have slightly different sound levels. Also the pause play button is really nice when you have a game open in one tab and a video in the other.

I don't want a knob though, those are weird. Right now I have the Dell model kb216p.

>>106110575
Pic for reference.

>>106110575
I use a dac set to a safe level and I've left windows/linux master volume to 100%. If a youtube video is too loud I use their volume control. If a game is too loud I lower the volume in game and most games have decent sound mixing so you never have to do it more than once or twice.

>>106108509
If noise isn't a problem for you, then the Model F switch (capacitive buckling spring) is indeed far and away better as a keyswitch. However, the benefits come more from the boards they're part of, as a whole package.
>inherent N-key rollover unlike the Model M, due to being capacitive (though this is less of a unique selling point because just about any MX board on offer these days has this too)
>fantastic build quality, more robust than the Model M
>much less susceptible to switch malfunctions than Model Ms and Beampsrings (the predecessor technology to the Model F), especially when it comes to dirt interfering with the mechanism
>switches don't need per-switch calibration to use on modern hardware unlike beamsprings
The downside is that you'll have to expect to pay a decent bit for a modern Model F or even a vintage AT-layout (which is much closer to a modern layout) board. XT-layout boards work with an adapter, but its layout is very tough to get used to (even with an adapter that allows remapping) since some of the physical key placements and shapes are simply pants-on-head retarded by modern standards.

If you don't like loud clacks, or want to spend less but still want a capacitive board, also consider a Topre-based board. They're rubber domes, but much nicer. A Realforce-branded one with uniform switch weighting is a good option (as opposed to older Realforces, which had different switch weightings for keys based on which finger is expected to land on them, which sounds cool in theory but kinda feels like crap and also conceptually falls apart if you think about it hard enough), since those are the most reasonably priced ones (except if you go wireless).

Do NOT fall for the Happy Hacking Keyboard meme. They're Topre boards too, but they're ludicrously overpriced for what you get.

>>106110636
Or I could just click a button. Why get an app for everything when it could just be a button?

>>106110494
>>106110575
A PC122 has all the media keys you could want.
It's an acquired taste tho being possibly the 2nd or 3rd largest mass produced keyboard

>>106110802
Why the fuck does it have so many function keys?

>>106096416 (OP)
Everything is made as cheaply as possible now for mass production and prone to failure so you'll buy more products. CRTs had better color and display resolution options with no input lag. The future of CRTs was stolen from us for mass produced LCD trash.

>>106110828
It's based on IBM terminal keyboards where F13-F24 could be assigned to do different things based on what was running
Basically the same thing F keys are used for today but F1-F12 on the IBM terminals had specific functions that where unchanging like help, navigation or as an escape/exit key

On reproduction keybaords the F13-F24 are just shifted F1-F12

>>106110942
>On reproduction keybaords the F13-F24 are just shifted F1-F12

That's lame, it would be cool if you could make them do specific things.

But anyways I'm really just looking for a normal ass keyboard. I'd ask ChatGPT, but suggesting good keyboards seems to be one of its weaknesses.

Not much know about CRT
But keyboard was actually good

>>106110997
>it would be cool if you could make them do specific things.
It's what auto hot key is for

>>106110232
Leopold. One of the few companies turning out 90s IBM level key caps.

>>106112105
Do they have any wired keyboards?

>>106096416 (OP)
you can play old light gun games like duck hunt, house of the dead, time crisis etc on crts

>>106097044
>Because all those things were made in America and were built to a much higher standard than anything you can buy today.
DEC was in Ireland actually

>>106112135
I don't think they have any exclusively wireless keyboards.

>>106103793
>They are taking the piss
ModelFKeyboards is a one man operation. The keyboards are fully metal compared to the plastic that Unicomp uses. They also offer full programmability.

Mechanical keyboards such as the beam spring and buckling springs or cherry mx are outdated 80s technology. MOVE. ON. Hall effect is here, TML is here, optical/induction is here, THE FUTURE IS HERE.

>>106114892
sauce?

>>106102701
>1024x768 was perfect on a 19" CRT that i used in mid 00s
lol wat

I was talking 1998 14" screens. By mid 00s I used 1280x960@85Hz on a 17" samsung syncmaster.

>>106114108
The fact that it's a lottery to get a programmable board from Unicomp is a big enough reason alone to push me into getting a new Model F instead. The metal chassis and NKRO just made it even more appealing.

>>106114892
You know hall effect switches in keyboards aren't remotely a new technology either, right?

>>106114892
There's nothing wrong with the switches, chinks just can't make keyboards for shit.

>>106115886
It's not much of a lottery anymore, the fact they keep such little stock means that I doubt they're still selling any of the New Ms with the older controller. Any New Ms made should contain the RP2040 controller.
Both of mine are.

>>106110494
>gaming and I've heard that buckling springs kinda suck for that.
The heavy weight will most likely give you fatigue from holding keys down or tapping them quickly. They're also loud which is probably not what you want when trying to enjoy vidya, especially if it's with other people. The lack of N key rollover might also be an issue (the New M has much improved mappings, while the F doesn't have this problem at all). So no, it's not ideal for gayming. But purely for typing, it doesn't get much better.
>Are they considerably better than other key types in terms of durability?
Yes. Buckling spring switches are highly dirt resistant and even ones made in 81 are still perfectly functional today and will likely outlive any of us.

>>106115886
>The fact that it's a lottery to get a programmable board from Unicomp
You mean the controller might be non picopi based? I thought they sold out years ago. But yes, the non-pi USB Unicomp controller is absolute ass, avoid it like plague. I own one and it shits all over an otherwise excellent board.

>>106117348
Original Model M need to have their plastic rivets after about 20 years out you start to get dead areas. Most good condition examples on eBay have probably had this done already.

>>106101246
Why is he moving during this?
Also not saying the brand names are bad also my oled mogs both of those screens
Third for fuck you for keeping those things being so high they can fall and kill pets

>>106118203
It depends. Mine is 37 years old and while it has about 12 broken rivets, there's no "dead areas".

>>106118222
>Why is he moving during this?
Because that's what your eye does when it sees motion. You evolved to track motion with your eyes. In real life, you can see moving objects sharply because of this. But you can't on LCDs or OLEDs, because of their sample&hold nature. CRTs are not affected and look realistic in motion.
>my oled mogs both of those screens
No it doesn't. OLEDs are closer to LCDs than CRTs motion-wise.

>>106118409
Okay schizo

>>106118467
There is no schizophrenia in this. The sample and hold motion blur is a well documented phenomenon among video enthusiast spheres. However for Big Display it's advantageous to keep the public misinformed, everyone was gaslit into believing pixel response time was all that mattered to motion clarity during the advent of early LCDs, even if this couldn't be further from the truth. Why do you think they're removing BFI features from OLED TVs? It's no accident. It's to keep you from seeing what True Motion is like.

>>106101263
Please dismantle and wash your keyboard. That's disgusting.

>>106118335
Congrats on hitting the plastic rivet lotto I guess. In most cases you get several in one area, which makes a dead zone, and you have to drill the whole mess out and replace them with bolts.

>>106104877
Yes, CRTs are prone to burn-in but they're far, far more resilient to it than modern OLEDs (and less so than LCDs which are basically immune). It wasn't really a problem with them though. For a general-use computer monitor the only recommendation was to have a screensaver turn on when you're not using the PC, or to turn it off and this was good enough to not worry about it. Burn-in was something you'd see on arcade cabinet displays which ran the same game 24/7 or on extremely old an well-used monitors like security camera screens which were also on pretty much 24/7 with a camera in some fixed angle. On CRT TVs it was pretty much never a concern, the tube would wear out in other ways (like going dim) before burn-in was a problem.

>>106119699
yeah almost all of mine were along the top. seems like a cool project, if i ever need to do it. alternatively, i saw some autist on ebay offering to do it and deep clean it for £60

>>106120500
It is time consuming
I spent about $60 just in parts but I actually had to replace a whole membrane which was almost $30 in itself.

>>106120670
I recently did a bolt mod myself (also a 122) and it was indeed fucking tedious, and I couldn't even fix the keys that weren't registering (so that means I'll also have to go back in and replace the membrane). Fuck that, I'm just saving up for an F122.

>>106096416 (OP)
I'm too young to remember CRTs but I have had older flatscreen monitors, and today I use a 2560x1600 early LCD that I got for free from an office. Build quality was better back then. Had a late-2010s dell monitor previously but it broke. Also we replaced our still-working 2000s flatscreen TV with a modern one and that broke after not too long.

>>106096416 (OP)
Shit I threw out an IBM keyboard that looked like that a few months ago. I might have been able to sell it

Tards longing for warm doses of CRT radiation they never got to experience

>>106118409
it's quite sad to know youngfags now don't even know what they've been missing out on. they probably can't even imagine being able to read fast scrolling text on a screen

>>106118467
>Things I do not understand are schizophrenia

You must live in a terrifying world

>>106103530
The more time I spend learning the more I see that the average /g/ poster is a militant anti-intellectual and has no clue or actual tech skills. Be that in software or hardware, they speak with authority on topics they have little to no knowledge of. I kind of get why Stallman said what he said about this place.

You can't help these people. And, really, they don't want help, and they don't want to learn. They're here to argue in bad faith.

>>106097044
>Because all those things were made in America
The first PC CRTs were made by Samsung, not sure about the PS2 ones
And most Model M were made in Ireland
The PS/2 was assembled in USA out of asisn parts

>>106096416 (OP)
>Was some of our shit really higher quality 20-30 years ago?
Yeah, almost everything was higher quality back then, from computer keyboards to automobiles and even appliances like washing machines and refrigerators.

>>106125724
IBM's first CRTs were produced by Tatung, but by the PS/2 line, IBM were manufacturing their own tubes in the USA.