How do you live with 60% keyboards, or anything less than 100%? For 3d modeling and audio/video editing and music playing, I find the numpad, media controls, prntscr and arrow keys quite useful.

I don't do as much hardcore gaming as I used too but I still struggle justifying paying the price for a keyboard that is going to have gimped functionality just because the manufacturers refuse to put the better switches on the full-size keyboards.

And besides, what's stopping them from just moving all that shit to the left side instead if maus real estate is the sole problem?

>>106109061 (OP)
because its not about functionality, its about the aesthetic

>>106109084
How and why should this be mutually exclusive? This makes no sense to me. Plenty of aesthetic designs that are also functional. Take any old regular keyboard like the G213 prodigy or whatever for example and put new switches in to make it actually mechanical and the same features as in keyboards such as in OP, and you have a perfectly aesthetic and functional keyboard.

>wireless and a chink battery timebomb
>looney troon knob
>meme layouts
>homosexual keycaps
>hotswap sockets (added point of failure)
>chinky switches from ali like creamy thocky marbly poppy polaris luciola mint everglide oil king baby raccoon panda tactile
>"quality" (some cheap aluminum they added to the case)
>key chatter
>dies randomly
Yep, it's trooning time.

>>106109367
I hope that I can avoid most of these with our domestic makes, which are not marketed in this way I think.

>>106109580
are you referring to customs?

I'm conflicted because 100% KB take too much space for the mouse in fps games, but anything less than 100% is worse for work. Guess I should get 2 different keyboards or a separate numpad.

60% is a stupid tranny layout but 100% is stupid too.
TKL is the sweet spot.

>>106109061 (OP)
I only shitpost on the internet so I'm perfectly fine with a 65%

>>106109061 (OP)
>better switches on the full-size keyboards.
These exist
>moving all that shit to the left side
These exist too

>>106109985
>These exist
name 1 (one) 100% keyboard with Gateron G Pro Reds on the whole thing and not just the regular Gateron Reds
>these exist too
ditto

>>106109905
/thread

>>106109905
pic is the best layout

>>106110157
>gateron
zoomer meme switch

>>106109889
numpad on the left, tranny boy

>>106109061 (OP)
I don't do 3d modeling, audio or video editing or music playing. Any more retarded questions?

>>106109061 (OP)
I have a split keyboard that is basically a 60 with extra thumb buttons.
>For 3d modeling and audio/video editing
I don't do this.
And I can't do this anyway since I use dvorak and all the binds are everywhere.

You don't really need it if you are a coder as long as you have a modifier button for things such as F keys.

>>106110481
name another switch that you can buy

>>106109061 (OP)
>How do you live with 60% keyboards, or anything less than 100%?
some of us aren't wagecucks
/thread

>>106110627
no chink memes like gateron, akko, kailh, outemu, etc.
no sissy hotswp keeby keebs
stick to mx cherry and never troon out

>>106109061 (OP)
I can access 100% of a standard keyboard functionality (and more) on a 60% programmable keyboard from the home row.
I never have to lift my hands off the keyboard.
>but keyboard shortcuts are hard
My function key caps lock.
Fn + E = up arrow.
Fn + W = page up
I have a numpad built into the home row.
If there are any convoluted shortcuts, I can use macros to reduce the number of keys required.

It is no different to how ctrl, alt, or shift work.
If you're so retarded you cannot configure a programmable 60% and need dedicated keys because you're too stupid to learn a 4th modifier key, then fine, stick to 100% keyboards.

>>106110710
>stick to mx cherry
same shit except the company is now dying because it cant compete with chinks mass producing them for cheap which is why keychron shit like gateron dominates markets like the eu

stupid meme , I am back to the good old sun type 7

>>106110746
retards get btfo and scatter to the four winds

>>106110746
is it really worth spending your time and concentrated effort on memorizing subpattern layouts to accomplish the same thing i can do without looking down with near perfect accuracy as a trained muscle reflex
you just told the cope equivalent of having a two string guitar and saying that you just tune it up and down when you want the other notes, i dont envy you

>>106111351
>is it really worth spending your time and concentrated effort on memorizing subpattern layouts to accomplish the same thing i can do without looking down with near perfect accuracy as a trained muscle reflex
Yes. Being able to do all everything from the home row without moving and reseating my hands is objectively more efficient. You don't need dedicated navigation keys, pushing caps and ESDF or whatever for arrow keys isnt hard.
Why would I keep the juice bottle on the other side of the kitchen when I could just keep it next to the water tap?
You make it sound like it's some ordeal to learn another modifier key. It really isn't, and if you think it is then stick to 100%.

>>106111351
If you can't remember how you programmed your layers you are a smooth brain.
I never memorized anything because I remember where I put the keys.
Takes me only like a couple hours to get back to speed if I rearrange my symbol layer.

>>106111351
>you just told the cope equivalent of having a two string guitar and saying that you just tune it up and down when you want the other notes, i dont envy you
You're wrong.
A 100% keyboard is like having a two string guitar stuck in standard tuning and trying to play an octave. A programmable 60% is adding a third string to a guitar and being able to play an octave with ease and being able to tune it however you like.

>>106109061 (OP)
>How do you live with 60% keyboards, or anything less than 100%? For 3d modeling and audio/video editing and music playing, I find the numpad, media controls, prntscr and arrow keys quite useful.
All of the software I use was designed 50 years ago. In the interm keyboard layouts changed so much that everything is functional with fewer keys than the 60% keyboard has. Even if I had a larger keyboard I prefer this space since I touch type and don't want to move my hands much, in fact I even have mouse movement/clicking/window management mapped into super+* so I don't have to move my hands for that either. If I had a larger keyboard I wouldn't use the extra keys so it would just consume desk space which is annoying.

>I find the numpad, media controls, prntscr and arrow keys quite useful.
Do you think these keys don't exist or something? I always find the something over 60% comes from people who don't even know how they work.

>>106109061 (OP)
Most people don't do 3d modeling or audio/video editing. Also media controls aren't standard on a 100% anyway right?

>>106113075
Fine, I'll splurge $50 on one to see how it is.

>>106110746
holy autism

being filtered by layers is peak nigger behavior

>>106110746
For me it's banishing caps lock under fn+ right shift and using it as a second fn key so I can do caps + wasd for arrow keys with my left hand

I recently assembled a TBK-mini. I ordered a 3d print and bought all the electronics from ali. Got a soldering station, too.
It doesn't look like much, but took me 2.5 full days to assemble it and another day to set up the QMK and another half-day to further tweak the QMK layout to my liking.
I am a programmer, and setting up QMK was easy enough, but I won't stand here and pretend like the beginner docs couldn't have been like 5 times better by listing the common scenarios. Many things are obvious to QMK devs, but not to a newcomer. I got by with my programming xp, but I imagine a non-tech person will just get lost or have to ask questions in their trannycord.
And the experience with the board? Well, the most frustrating thing isn't layers. Actually, the numbers on the home row and shit like that will be easy to get used to. It's the fucking ortho/columnar layout that's trouble. Now I have to press C with my middle finger, and B with my left index. Finger ergonomics is actually fine and I certainly like it much better than the laptop keyboard (which I now think is 2nd best).
I didn't like the mod-tap because it delays the key entry. So do the combos. If you want many combos, you better get a better microcontroller than promicro/elitec (forgot the name, but it has to do with the raspberry pi world).
So, I am not sure I want to stick with it, because a) muscle memory and b) I will be occasionally switching to the laptop and back.

>>106114959
(Picrel isn't my build, but it's just like it, I am too lazy to take my own pic, since it's nothing special)

What's a good alphanumeric 40% pad for the right hand that I can buy in place of a numpad that also uses red switches?
>P0GM2M

>>106109061 (OP)
I'm convinced most people don't work a real job
even after leaving finance for tech I still can't live without my numpad.

>buy 69%^ jetvbiard
<akyhiyt ius all fucjked up
<>no fucking tilda key to use in the game because it is shared wit hescape
I ALREADY HATE THIS

>>106114016
Sorry you're retarded anon.
>>106117620
programmable 60%s can have a numpad retard

>>106117620
Learn to touch type the number bar retard

>>106118475
>programmable 60%s can have a numpad retard
Just use function key for everything, of course. Except you still won't have enough buttons half of the time, especially if you want anything resembling media buttons. Fucking hell, at the very least 75% keyboards still retain the separate function keys and an extra row off to the side.

>>106118531
>Learn to touch type the number bar retard
AUTISM

>>106109905
/THREAD

>>106109061 (OP)
I main 40% and just use QMK/VIAL.

You build your custom keeb or buy a significantly more expensive prebuild (that support QMK/VIAL) and then just program the firmware for your custom behavior on the keyboard's chip (for me it's mostly custom layers, combos, cords and mouse cursor movement) and live happily with no issues.


https://qmk.fm/
https://get.vial.today/manual/

alternatively you can use the 60% for your main and use your shit during gaming for your off hand

>>106119125
literally just get good
the numpad doesn't offer anything special and I doubt you desperately need unicode characters

>>106109061 (OP)
>but I still struggle justifying paying the price for a keyboard that is going to have gimped functionality just because the manufacturers refuse to put the better switches on the full-size keyboards.
based retard

>numpad
you have the fucking numbers already
>media controls
cram it under fn+ zxcv
>arrow keys
caps + wasd

>>106120398
care to explain

>>106120440
>just use the function keys
it's slower and less convenient
literally the only use case is more mouse space for gayming
and pruning the top row of function keys on 60% keyboards is completely unnecessary as much as the extra row to the right

>>106120470
>It's slower
No it's not
You can do caps+ wasd for the arrow keys and caps +whatever left side buttons without moving your hand

>>106118897
>Just use function key for everything, of course. Except you still won't have enough buttons half of the time, especially if you want anything resembling media buttons.
I'm not even close to maxing out my function layer anon. But sure, continue making up insane scenarios because you got filtered by a modifier key.

>>106120470
>it's slower and less convenient
How exactly is taking your hand from the home row faster and more convenient?

for me it's the negligibly smaller 96% keyboard

60% is the best - can bring my noisy keyboard to the office using the office provided backpack and have some room for lunch.
I have all the keys needed via this or that layout.
In addition - my hands are generally staying on the home row, which is generally what keyboards are made around. I even remap my bigger boards and just use the same set of keys as the 60%.

Dactyls should really enter the normie space
The economy of scale really fucks them over and HE ones just don't fucking exist yet

>>106120463
Everything affects the price. You have some arbitrary concept of “full price” based on seemingly nothing but key count. Nicer switches increase cost, especially if hot-swappable. Nicer keycaps are also more expensive, which is a common addition to smaller specialty keyboards.

>>106120624
asperger cope

>>106120716
for me, it's the negligibly larger 118% keyboard

>>106121181
Argument not found

>>106121254
It is simply inefficient to try and come up with key combinations to compensate for the loss of 40+ keys when requires more time and motion to do so with more points of failure

>>106109905
this
no function keys is retarded

>>106120870
that's not what the post wrote or has anything to do with what it covered
the point is that they don't even offer you the option half of the time even at increased cost to buy the 100% keyboard with the same switches as the 60% keyboard forcing eg. the 60% one having gateron g pro reds and a 100% board having regular gateron reds
you will notice adadadadadadadadadadada

>>106121289
Nigger it took me 10 minutes to learn that shit and in the end you're not moving your left hand across the keyboard or taking your right off the mouse
It's very intuitive, moreso than the defaults and if you can't adapt to it you should consider the possibility that you're just retarded

>>106109061 (OP)
I've got a 65% rn but if I was doing CAD stuff I'd want a 100%
Editing and stuff I don't end up needing the numpad and the FN key becomes muscle memory pretty fast
The extra space on my desk for games is worth it since I'm a DPIcel

>>106121289
>It is simply inefficient to try and come up with key combinations to compensate for the loss of 40+ keys when requires more time and motion to do so with more points of failure
Does the same thought enter your smooth brain when pushing ctrl + c? Do you need a dedicated "copy" button because you're too fucking retarded for modifier keys?

>>106109061 (OP)
the truth is you do not need that many buttons.
I have 40% keyboard and I could not be happier.

I get all the keys I need and more from layers.

>>106109061 (OP)
don't talk to me if you don't have an F24 key

I've been living without numpad for over two years and the ergonomics are bliss.

>>106109905
>>106110188
>>106119151
I can accept a programmable 60% because the argument is that you get full functionality (and more) from the home row of a keyboard.
I can accept if you're too retarded to handle an extra modifier key and need dedicated keys that you should stick to 100%.

But the 'standard' TKL layout is the worst of both worlds. Nothing signals "I'm a clueless retard" like using a 'standard' TKL. Getting rid of the numpad is completely unforgivable.
Numpad = Numbers + Navigation
Navigation keys = Navigation only
TKL's only value is signalling its user is fucking retarded.

bros what the fuck is "creamy" in regard to mech keyboards?

>>106121442
hey retarded faggot, have you ever tried looking above your home row?
what do you see there?

>>106121540
Its when the switch is over-lubed with thick white goo. I prefer "squirters" where liquid lube can erupt from the switch housing

>>106121799
The only retarded faggot incapable of articulating his grievences is you anon.

>>106109061 (OP)
>How do you live with 60% keyboards, or anything less than 100%?
If I have to crunch numbers (extremely rare) I pull out the number cruncher.

>>106109177
You can't aesthetic away mass. QueerGB gayming keyboards are about selling you less and costing more just for the vibe, not functionality.

>>106122065
Most 60%'s are programmable just program one in anon.

>>106122109
The irony is that programmable 60%'s offer more functionally and utility than full-sized keyboards.

Can any of you numpad retards explain why exactly would you even need a second set of numbers?

>>106122146
For shitters who can't touch-type, the numpad layout makes it easier to input numbers without looking away from whatever it is you're typing in and you're doing it with one hand.

The ergo benefits of using less buttons is nice. Anything you have to remember but also use a lot will compress in your brain and take less effort to use over time, but the physical effort of moving your hand will always stay the same.

>full-size / TKL retards show up
>get btfo because they demonstrate they don't know how 60%'s work
>exit the thread in shame
every
single
time

>>106122146
Type faster? You do the numbers.

Now do it with 43 less keys.

>>106109061 (OP)
Forget about %, your keyboard has rainbows, you're packing fudge.

>>106114959
built my corne low profile a few years back but i don't really like the flat shape. i want to try it again now that i have my own 3d printer and some CAD skills but i hated the hours of soldering. any recommendations for a pcbless approach? don't care if it ends up being a rat nest of wires (i'd only have to do it once and i'll probably design wire organisation channels). gives me freedom to design my own thumb cluster and wells without messing around with a flex pcb.

>>106109061 (OP)
I’m a Mac guy so I don’t really use F keys
If I became a StarCraft guy I’d use a normal keyboard for that
I don’t do a lot of number entry so I don’t need the 10-key
I think more 10-key enjoyers should mouse left-handed

>>106125046
I followed these dude's two articles. The first is about a hardwired & no-pcb + promicro TBK-mini, which is apparently what you are asking.
https://carl-fredrik.arvidson.io/posts/tbk-mini
The other one is worth checking out as well:
https://carl-fredrik.arvidson.io/posts/another-tbk-mini
Is corne low profile anything close to a laptop keyboard feel? I thought about it, but figured I would rather get an apple magic keyboard if I am not gonna go balls into mechanics, so why do it at all.

>>106109061 (OP)
I am fine with 60%, because all I do is shit-post here and there till I get banned for writing NIGGER, TRANNY or FAGGOT.

>>106124653
Why don't you explain which ones people will struggle with on a 60%? Maybe then you would have a point.
Spoiler: There aren't any, in fact, 60%'s are superior because you can make any "complex" (2+ keys) bindings into a 2 key binding.

>>106109061 (OP)
>How do you live with 60% keyboards
Because using IJKL and WASD is much faster than moving your hand to the arrow keys. Same reason why people love Vim so much. You do everything close to the home row. It is extremely comfy. (I don't use picrel, but it's an example. I prefer to use IJKL for arrows.)
Also, it's much better for mouse ergonomics because the mouse can be much closer to your hands

>numpad
If you need to type numbers very often, then a 60% might not be a good idea for you. But stuff like >>106122111 or >>106122065 are viable options.

>For 3d modeling and audio/video editing and music playing
Yeah, if those apps require many specific shortcuts you don't want to re-learn, just keep using a standard keyboard.
I think these reduced size keyboards are better for tasks that involve writing lots of text, like programming.
I love my 60%, but I don't frequently need to use media creation tools.

>>106122111
>Caps Lock as a layer modifier
Based. It's what I do.

>>106125283
thanks anon but i was looking for something solderless too like these that i can plug in easily.

>>106125679
Bruh dupont is horrible for reliable connections, especially something that will vibrate once in a while, and I don't know a better alternative. Just embrace pain if you want DIY.

>>106125679
Actually I just remembered I saw some mechanical keyboard guide where they use wrap-wire to avoid soldering. It's a kind of thin-gauge wire that you wrap around the pins that stick out. It was a site with a dark background, a long page. You should find that maybe.

>>106125766
noted but are these not the same mechanism as the hot swap sockets? i feel like if the switch is properly seated a spring loaded clip socket shouldn't be an issue but i have no experience with electronics so say any further.

>>106125870
In case of hotswap, the two plastic round "pegs" that stick out of the bottom of the switch are placed into the hotswap PCB, which actually holds the PCB with the switch. Not extremely tightly, but close enough. But the two metal pins hold about as well as dupont. So, in case of hotswap PCB, it's not just dupont that provides stability.
I don't know, I only remember using dupont cables from two manufactures. Chinese cheap shit isn't going to work. The more expensive stuff might, I don't know, but then you need "forks" or I don't know what to connect multiple duponts onto the same pin.

>>106121330
>10 minutes
tilda to console
function shortcuts
ctrl + alt + delete
f2 to rename
f5/f6 to quicksave and f12 to render
any numperpad combos
all of this shit will be needlessly more tedious with this stripped down toy of a keyboard

>>106125663
>2-4 of the function keys on 60% keyboards dedicated to fucking rgb instead of volume controls
wew

>>106122111
>Tilda
Caps+ esc
>Function shortcuts
Still exist and can be easily made?
>ctrl alt del
Ctrl alt fn backspace
>F2 to rename
Caps + 2
>f5 f6 f12
Caps + 5/6 fn+ =
>Number pad
You could look up every single unicode character in 10 seconds
>Needlessly more tedious
Not having to move my left hand is the opposite of tedious

>>106126414
>Tilda
Caps+ esc
>Function shortcuts
Still exist and can be easily made?
>ctrl alt del
Ctrl alt fn backspace
>F2 to rename
Caps + 2
>f5 f6 f12
Caps + 5/6 fn+ =
>Number pad
You could look up every single unicode character in 10 seconds
>Needlessly more tedious
Not having to move my left hand is the opposite of tedious

>>106126423
They are not dedicated. All of the keys are programmable.
Mine doesn't have RGB at all. Or you can map them to anything you want.

>>106112307
YOU
ARE
A
TOY
You're an action figure, a child's play-thing?

>>106109061 (OP)
84 keys is all you need op

>>106109061 (OP)
They also live with 60% genitals (i.e. their cocks being shriveled from the estrogen and hormone blockers)

>not 120% maxxing

>>106128214
>all that wasted space
You could easily distributed those extra keys in a more even fashion.

>>106109061 (OP)
they make standalone num/macropad boards, which I actually prefer because I move it off to the left of my desk where I have more space and if I don't need it I can just shift it away even further.

+ having extra keys to bind even more shit on feels really good paired with TKL

>>106109061 (OP)
I just create binds/macros for everything I do frequently.

>>106128214
Where in the FUCK is your pause key, retard?

>>106114959
I have an Ergodox EZ on my desktop and also a laptop and the only thing I screw up occasionally is pressing caps lock when I mean to backspace

>>106112307
I have some pretty cool programmed layers but I’m a Mac guy and occasionally I’ll want to press Print Screen on Windows and I’ll have to grope around for it and/or have to look it up

>>106128412
>slightly taller than the keyboard they paired it with
this bothers me
why couldn't they use a tkl or something with a F-row for the photoshoot

>>106125253
>Mac
>guy
Anon, I...

It's simply not possible if you do serious work.

>>106128412
Can you use switches with these boards though? Ideally you'd have a secondary board if you need the right hand space with all remaining 43 keys next to a 60% board.

>>106109061 (OP)
82 key is the best board layout.

I just switched to a 60%. Full keyboards are a waste of space for anyone who isn't an office drone.

anything less than 1800/fullsize is for trannies/gay men and attention seeking women. same goes for any type of artisan keycap other than hand-engraved metals (this covers all gay resin, acrylic, plastic, or any other chink shit).

the minimum acceptable is a full numpad and f row. Ideally a 2U zero key on the numpad, as well as any additional keys the designer feels like adding. Good examples of patrician boards that fit this bill are the boston, the wombat, the hyper 7.

"just learn layers" is lgbtq cope and is just as easily flipped around. why learn layers when I can have a discrete key that can perform any standard function and innumerable custom functions?

I understand that most people will not understand; this is why the market is flooded with absolute garbage, because that is what people buy. I don't expect this to ever change, I can only spread the good word and hope for the best

>>106133013
I would rather use my desk space for literally anything else

>>106109061 (OP)
Look for a 96% or 1800 keyboard, it's the size of a TKL with a full numpad.
If you want better switches just find something hotswappable and switch them in yourself.

>>106133089
>sacrificing full size modifiers on the right side to fit dedicated arrow keys
peak retardation

>>106133089
>>106133561
Also fuck having a 1U zero on a numpad.
If you insist on having a numpad, at least have a proper fucking numpad then.

>>106132650
programmable 60%s are objectively better for serious work as outlined countless times in this thread with no retorts already.

>>106133089
What's the point of the arrow keys if you have a numpad? What a retarded layout. Just use a 60% like a non-retard.

>>106133698
with that logic, why stop at 60? just toss the entire board and type in morse code with a single key. keycaps will be cheaper too since u only need one. then you have more room on your desk for funko pops or whatever excuse fuels this cope

>>106133846
Disingenuous boomer cope. I bet you think its justifiable to still be making scroll lock keys in 2025.

>>106109061 (OP)
Losing the nav cluster (home/end/pgup/pgdn) is a non-starter for me so 60% is a step too far
65% is the sweet spot for me

>>106133851
keyboard is a tool first, not an art piece. an input device

your choice to use a tool missing half its functions, and merchants are more than happy to sell you a pretty one that fits that bill.

>>106122146
The distance between the numbers is shorter, also the enter key is very handy.

>>106133966
>missing
By going down to a 60% I am merely eliminating redundant duplicates (numpad) and assigning lesser-used functions as alternate functions for the remaining keys. It's an efficiency thing that saves desk space and is perfect when you want a more portable keyboard, as I do.

>>106109061 (OP)
>I find the numpad
numpad is just a layer on the left side of my ortholinear 50%. I can trigger the layer from both sides of the keeb and also toggle it with a combo press of ZX keys. but yes, if you will use a staggered keyboard, instead of ortholinear, you won't be able then to reproduce numpad comfortably under a layer.
>media controls, prntscr and arrow keys quite useful.
just another another layer. my arrow keys are keys are under hjkl, while my page/home shit under nm<>. prntscr is just a combo that requires 2 Super keys pressed at the same time. i also have an extra set of modifiers on all layers: when I hold either, F/J it triggers Ctrl, V/M triggers Shift and C/< triggers Alt/Meta.

>>106122109
just learn to shop and don't fall for memes. i'm using a cheap redragon mech running QMK and nothing ever comes close in comfort.

>>106122111
this. i'm still missing space invader shifts on my laptop from time to time. they're a great keystroke saver.

>>106133966
my mech cost me $30 for a 61-key hotswappable, repairable keyboard that will last ages. it saves desk space, money and wrist pain.

>>106134704
i have Fn+Return as a tap dance that lets me control two separate arrow locks at HJKL and WASD, a numpad lock at IOPKL:<>? and reboot to flashing mode

>>106109061 (OP)
>I need ____ and use it often, so how does anyone survive without using ____?
holy shit it's almost like people use their computers for different things
I use my thermal printer every day but I doubt anyone else in here cares whether they have one or not

>>106109061 (OP)
Only way I'd justify a 60% is a HHKB or HHKB style layout since the key placement is much more comfortable and usable across devices.

>>106134836
HHKB are trash 60%'s. Stick to fully programmable ones with standard alphanumeric + modifier layouts.

>>106133966
>your choice to use a tool missing half its functions
your total inability to say what functions says everything anon, you're full of shit and have a chip on your shoulder about 60%'s because you're a retard

>>106109061 (OP)
It fits in the drawer in my desk so I have a no numpad kb in there. When I really need it I bust out the Bluetooth number which is nice you can put anywhere like on top of the paper ur reading from or w/e

>>106133846
>with that logic, why stop at 60?
How do you still not understand this? The logic isn't to reduce the keyboard down to the lowest number of keys, it's to make the functionality from the numpad / navigation keys accessible from the home row. When you've achieved that, you don't need dedicated keys for those actions.
A standard programmable 60% doesn't rely on any modifiers to access the alphanumerics, there's no loss of functionality, you only need to program in the keys you're raising your hands away from the home row for.

>>106109905
Yep, only thing I miss is my numpad, I might buy a separate numpad at some point for quick math

>>106136946
see
>>106121442
>>106122111

>>106136993
See my dick in your mouth

>>106109061 (OP)
>OH BOY I SURE LOVE PAYING MORE FOR LESS FUNCTIONALITY!!!
Do people really?

>>106121392
8 buttons ought to be enough for anybody

>>106134148
>I'm a zoomer who grew up using phone keyboards!
K', keep you retardation away from people trying to do productive work

>>106137002
Not an argument, I accept your concession.
>>106137020
>mom i posted it again!!!!!
>>106137136
How exactly do full size keyboards relate to being productive? The attempt to push this narrative has been completely annihilated every time it comes up in this thread. I haven't seen any convincing argument.

>>106109061 (OP)
Love my V1 Max.
A 100% keyboard gets in the way of the mouse.
I've got all the keys I actually use. del, ins, home, end. Who needs more?

>>106121422
>don't talk to me if you don't have an F24 key

Based. End of discussion.

>>106109061 (OP)
I have a TKL and am perfectly fine with it, it replaced a 100% keyboard which I really didn't like
if I need a numpad (for Blender mostly) I have a separate numpad I can plug

>>106133561
the only thing that changes in any meaningful way is the location of the right control key

None of this would be a problem if they just manufactured full-size keyboards with at least an additional row of extra buttons, or if they split everything to the right hand side of the enter button into a separate panel with the same switches for use on the left hand.

>>106139989
Explain what problem you think 60%'s solve that your solution addresses. I have no idea what you're asking for.

>>106137278
>sewing machine

>how 60% keyboard users expect you to use your computer for the most basic and rudimentary tasks

>all these people bringing up space
Is that really such an issue ? How little space do you guys have on your desks that extra 1 dm2 is a deal breaker ? Do you live in Hong Kong or something

>>106140511
Where's the incremental controls for capless glove accumulation array?!

>>106140642
it's not about available space on the desk, it's about space relative between mouse and keyboard. A full keyboard just gets in the way of full comfortable movement of the mouse in my experience. 75% is the perfect size, giving me access to every key I actually use.

>>106110157
Just get a 100% barebones like akko monsgeek M5 (aluminium) or GK108 (plastic) they have hotplug sockets, just shove in whatever switch you want, no soldering no tools required.

>>106133013
but what if I like both?
t. unicomp battlecruiser and 60% user

>>106109061 (OP)
>tfw using a cheap bluetooth keyboard that's small and has few keys
I make it work. No idea how though.

>>106136768
>I don't use this key when im playing fortnite or shitposting on 4chan, that means its useless and nobody needs it! You're a retard if you disagree!

Make your keyboard as small as you want, lil buddy. But I'm still gonna laugh at you for being a key-let.

Guessing you have a tiny pc with shit airflow too. If you just toss the GPU you could probably fit a few more funko pops in there

>>106144063
The correct response would be to list the functions its missing. I'm going to take your complete failure to list even one as a concession.
>Guessing you have a tiny pc with shit airflow too.
No it's a Fractal Focus 2 without a window you massive retard.

>>106144266
>>106144063
>I'm still gonna laugh at you for being a key-let

>>106121442
I will ONLY accept this if you give me a big handle or pedal to push to engage the clutch.
If you do not, it's strictly inferior to a 100% keyboard.

>>106144375
I'm sure you can wire one up

I want a keyboard with no numpad (saves space on desk in left-right axis) but shittons of extra buttons above the standard layout, like >>106121422 (takes advantage of otherwise-underutilised space on desk in front-back axis).

>>106144333
Rather be a keylet than a brainlet completely mind-broken by modifier keys lmao

>>106144843
>just learn layers
>brain broken

what are you even arguing? yeah we get it, 60% is a popular layout and you can't throw a fucking rock without hitting some new group buy.

I'm arguing that the rational behind removing is retarded and trading functionality for aesthetic. it's a popular sentiment, especially with certain things, but I'm arguing that a keyboard is a tool first, not art, and trading function for form (they are not mutually exclusive either) with a tool is laughable. Trading function for portability makes more sense, but I would ask 1. how many people buying 60s or lower are actually taking them anywhere and 2. how much more portable is it really? In a backpack through TSA? sure. in the backseat of your car? it makes no difference.

you ask what function, but you're being disingenuous. by nature a compact layout is removing function, that's the entire point of the layout. im sure your argument will boil down to something like "layer modifiers mean that the functionality is still there" but we both know having a discrete key for a function is a feature, and arguing that layers is equivalent is cope. your keyboard, by definition, has less function than a keyboard with more keys. you can argue that it doesn't fit your use case, but the standard layout is standard for a reason. scroll lock, home, and page up/down all do something in your OS, even if you aren't someone who uses it. hell, you could re-bind them to a macro if you wanted to, and it'd be a discrete macro key with inherently more function than an intangible layer shortcut.

really, the only other argument for the layout I've seen is desk space, which is laughable. how small/cluttered is your desk? do you have a tiny baby monitor too so you can have more space?

>>106144930
NTA but what functionality? All those missing buttons are swallowed by the function layer
It made me actually appreciate and fully customise those and I'm better for it, nothing is missing

>>106144930
>I'm arguing that the rational behind removing is retarded and trading functionality for aesthetic.
Nobody is trading functionality for aesthetic. Programmable 60%'s have more utility than a standard full-size. With programmable 60%'s you're making every function on the keyboard accessible from the home row.
>but we both know having a discrete key for a function is a feature, and arguing that layers is equivalent is cope.
Having to raise your hand away from the home row to hit a dedicate key is worse for produtivity than accessing it from the home row.
>your keyboard, by definition, has less function than a keyboard with more keys.
So in your eyes the best keyboard in the world would have no modifier keys and would have a dedicated "copy" button and a "paste" button?

Get this through your thick retarded skull: The argument isn't to reduce the keyboard down to the lowest number of keys, it's to make the functionality from the numpad / navigation keys accessible from the home row. When you've achieved that, you don't need dedicated keys for those actions.
A standard programmable 60% doesn't rely on any modifiers to access the alphanumerics, there's no loss of functionality, you only need to program in the keys you're raising your hands away from the home row for.

>>106145107
>I only use alphanumerics when playing fortnite and shit posting on 4chan
>my use case is everyone's use case
>i don't know why the vast majority of humans use a full-size, obviously 60% is superior and should be adopted as a new standard

>>106145153
Your complete inability to provide and evidence that 60%'s are lacking in some way for says everything. I accept your concession.

>>106145153
The overwhelmingly vast majority of humans also use prebuilts and laptops and never even downloaded any os iso
You count yourself in that defaultly retarded group too?

>>106145181
>>106145200
key-lets detected

>>106145225
>still no counter-argument
still accept your concession

>>106145225
You're going in circles and couldn:t cite a rational argument about what we're supposedly missing if your life depended on it
For all the tranny accusations your kin shits out towards non 100% keyboards you sure are talking like an estrogen infused mind broken failure

>>106114959
>It doesn't look like much, but took me 2.5 full days to assemble it and another day to set up the QMK and another half-day to further tweak the QMK layout to my liking.
I'd love to do a build like this but damn if I don't have the fuckin time. I just don't have enough time to commit to it

I need a copy key and a paste key. I don't understand how modifiers work help.

>>106109061 (OP)
layers
you still use those keys
in fact they are easier to use since you don't have to move your hands (obviously you can also do that on a 100% keyboard using layers)

>>106145242
>>106145254
>60% users bringing up trannies unpromped

we get it, you paid a lot of money on the aftermarket for your overhyped 60% whatever keyboard. its very cool

full size is still superior in both design and function. you are posting in a thread dedicated to laughing at people who use compact layouts. I am laughing at you. you may continue to waste your money and press your layer modifiers, and we will all still laugh at you

>>106145281
>full size is still superior in both design and function
your complete inability to support that and provide retorts to people raping you says otherwise.
i accept your concession

>>106145281
There are 2 posts in this very thread calling 60% trannies you illiterate buffoon
For all the supposed functionality you sure as fuck couldn't manage to press ctrl+f
Reminder you have yet to bring up that 100% exclusive functionality

>>106145300
>someone else on this planet posted about trannies so lets talk about that instead to deflect from my dogshit keyboard

>>106145286
i concede my nuts into your mouth
you aren't even making an argument, you're just whining about your lack of keys. lmfao

>>106145314
>still no counter-argument
still accept your concession

>>106109061 (OP)
Layers.

>>106145314
Tell us about the exclusive functionality of the 100% keyboards or shut the fuck up

>>106144930
>sincerely type out all this shit
>completely mind-raped by responses
>have a mental breakdown in ability to respond
jesus i owned you hard huh

>>106145326
no

your keyboards layout is gay and all you can do is cope. you very likely massively paid ridiculous aftermarket prices for garbage.

get dabbed on, faggot

>>106145344
>your keyboards layout is gay and all you can do is cope.

>>106145344
So there's nothing and you're arguing purely on gut feeling?
Thanks, good to know

>>106109061 (OP)
These things are used by the same people who don't know how to take a screenshot, so they pull out their phone instead to take a photo of their monitor.

They simply do not comprehend what the extra "bloat" buttons are for.

>>106109889
Have you considered not being a faggot and just buying a gamepad instead? Something with WASD+ extra keys? If you're not going to use a full keyboard why settle for half of one when you can go for 1/4 or 1/8th of one?

>>106145361
>These things are used by the same people who don't know how to take a screenshot.
People buying 60%'s are going to be more familiar with their keyboard functions than full-size cattle who need dedicated keys because they're mind-broken by modifier keys.

>>106145361
Wrong
If you can't take a screenshot you're significantly more likely to be using some cheap membrane or a laptop's built in keyboard
Do you need to be reminded that the chief "argument" against 60% is fearmongering based on tech illiteracy?

Behold, the perfect keyboard has been designed at last.

You need more? Shut the fuck up and learn the codes. It can do anything you need it to given sufficient practice.

>>106145461
You lost the arguments and are trying to do reductio ad absurdum now?

>>106145461
see
>>106136906

Keep saying retarded shit anon, its only making me feel better.

>>106145491
What functionality from numpad isn't already available on the home row? What is the purpose of a numpad?

>>106109061 (OP)
Do you think 60%oids just don't use those buttons? They have layers, my good retard.

>>106145512
see
>>106122184
Keep saying retarded shit anon, its only making me feel better.

>>106145683
You actually think you can input numbers (decimals included) on the top row faster than someone with a numpad? If you do, I've got bad news...

>>106145725
see
>>106122111
Keep saying retarded shit anon, its only making me feel better.

>>106145916
I'm an accountant, anon. Your 2nd layer pseudo numpad is not going to win under any circumstance, ever. Those operators and zero are also extremely unergonomic.

I don't know why you're so mad and linking to posts from days ago, I literally just got here. Enjoy your board, man.

>>106146103
>Your 2nd layer pseudo numpad is not going to win under any circumstance, ever.
Your complete inability to explain why speaks volumes.
>Those operators and zero are also extremely unergonomic.
You can bind them however you want retard-kun and no, they aren't "unergonomic".

>>106145361
>buying a gamepad instead
Fair, suggestions?

>>106146103
The dedicated ergonomic dactyl keyboards that fit the positions of your fingers and are made to move and stretch them as little as possible do not in fact have a numpad
A full keyboard with big spaces between keys is the last thing you'd call ergonomic
Which do you think is more ergonomic, holding caps lock with your pinky and wasd to make arrow keys or moving your hand all the way to the physical arrow keys

Buying a keyboard for the rarely used numpad and navigation keys is like buying a shit case with no airflow because you want to use a disc reader once a year
It makes it shittier at all times in exchange for being useful once in a blue moon
No, you buy a good case and you let the disc reader sit on the floor and then you unplug it and put it away once you're done
Same with the numpad, buy a shitty ten bucks one if you need it and keep it off otherwise

>>106148816
It's a good job programmable 60%'s offer a superior option to to full-size and smaller non-programmable keyboards then by letting you add a numpad directly into the home row then.

>>106148816
>buying a shit case with no airflow because you want to use a disc reader once a year
that's not mutually exclusive as a choice

>>106140642
Space is only an issue if you're a filthy zoomie gamer and needs that extra space for his mouse.