Thread 106161733

outdoor lighting methods were perfected forever ago. but sure, go ahead and argue how massive semiconductor waste from chinese LEDs is superior and how LEDs aren't absolutely fucking up the ecology of the planet and ruining people's night vision and adaptibility and making people more neurotic and insane and so on so on.

>>106161733 (OP)
>t. Schizo

>>106161733 (OP)
>sodium vapor lamps
Absolutely dystopian.

I saw some reddit thread about how helsinki had zero traffic related deaths in a year
maybe led lamps actually do do something

>>106161733 (OP)
retards who believe ressources are unlimited are fascinating...

>>106161733 (OP)
>outdoor lighting methods
use case? we lived without this stupid nonsense for hundreds of thousands of years.

>>106161733 (OP)
LEDs aren't absolutely fucking up the ecology of the planet and ruining people's night vision and adaptibility and making people more neurotic and insane and so on so on.

Fun fact.
One single sodium street lamp uses the same energy as an entire road with LEDs. And cost about the same too.
There is literally no reason to even keep HPS turned on. It's far cheaper to pay an overpriced contractor to rip it all out and buy even more overpriced (the government always pay more for everything thanks to corruption). You literally recover your investment in 2 or 3 months...

>>106161791
That's more to do with Helsinki basically having a 10mph speed limit everywhere and few cars

>>106161824
wildlife absolutely is wrecked by street lamps tho

>>106161825
vapour lamps are far more efficient than LEDs and this isn't even taking into account the entire supply and manufacturing chain costs.

>>106161791
I think that's the main problem, ruining tons of things in the name of safety. No one genuinely enjoys living in 2025, no matter how "safe".

Beyond the "new for the sake of something new" appeal, governments were sold on LEDs being longer lasting thann other lamp types. The primary cost of a street light isn't the bulbs, it's the cost to send a worker out to change it when it dies. Employees are expensive and changing bulbs high above the street in random places requires far more time than changing the bulb in your bathroom. The knee jerk reaction is to scream "nuh uh" but reality is dealing with work orders, sending someone out from central dispatch, and setting up in an OSHA compliant way takes time. The typical worker can only get to a couple of bulbs per day as they're usually spread out over the city.
LEDs were sold as having a lifetime two or three times longer than other streetlight bulb types (sodium vapor bulbs already have a long life, but less than the theoretical life of LEDs). Anyone who has seen purple light coming from the streetlight knows that LED bulbs have quality control issues, destroying the employee cost advantage, because even if the bulb itself is replaced for free, the employee cost for changing them is not refunded.

>>106161872
in what universe?
Why the fuck do you think every place on earth trashed their HPS lamps before they even went bad?
Literally 400Wh. You know how much this is?
A modern 50' LED television uses 55Wh...

>>106161931
my cuckpartment complex has LED street lights in the parking lot. i've lived here for 2 years and i've seen maintenance crews come out each year to replace 10-20% of the lights because they straight up die or will flicker on and off. i think it has to be the shitty driver boards theyre running.

>>106161958
>Why the fuck do you think every place on earth trashed their HPS lamps before they even went bad?
because of idiots who dont know anything

>>106161969
If sodium lamps were superior in any shape or form, some country would have brought them back. But this did not happen anywhere.
The only people who want them back are losers who are afraid of change because they like to pretend they are still children living with their mother.

>>106161841
If they hang around street lamps it is because they want to be there.

>>106161992
>because they like to pretend they are still children living with their mother.
When I was a kid they didn't even use sodium lamps...

op is 100% right. every link in the food chain is crucial. bugs are near the bottom, and bugs who are active at night use the moon for navigation and have for 1000000000 years.

>enter trillions of moons installed by humans on poles and buildings everywhere you look on earth in the span of like 50 years

now these creatures see one of these billions of moons putting out 40,000 lumens every 20 feet across the entire planet and simply flies into it for hours until it dies of exhaustion because its senses have been hijacked.

lights at night:
>the infinite universe of stars is now no longer visible at night. your ancestors got it, you dont. but you can see your sidewalk!
>complete ecological collapse starting with insects. take 20 minutes of your life and educate yourself before you larp like you disagree with this reality

or, we could go back to the moon and take a flashlight if you wanna see. easy choice for me, but I'm on a planet run by faggot retards.

>>106161733 (OP)
What's stopping these idiots from just using 2200K LEDs in place of sodium vapor lamps as opposed to the moronic daylight temperatures?
>>106161791
Where is the proof that this is correlated with the use of LED lighting?

>>106162092
>What's stopping these idiots from just using 2200K LEDs in place of sodium vapor lamps as opposed to the moronic daylight temperatures?
Sense.

>>106161992
>The only people who want them back are losers who are afraid of change because they like to pretend they are still children living with their mother.
Nice projection faggot. Warmer lighting at night is just objectively better.

>>106162092
>What's stopping these idiots from just using 2200K LEDs in place of sodium vapor lamps as opposed to the moronic daylight temperatures?
it costs more. LED spectra is just more inefficient than a single emission line from whatever element like sodium

>>106162059
>now these creatures see one of these billions of moons putting out 40,000 lumens every 20 feet across the entire planet and simply flies into it for hours until it dies of exhaustion because its senses have been hijacked.
And the animals that eat these bugs feast on them.

Pesticides have had a far greater impact on insect populations. There's something for you to actually go after.

>>106162098
>putting white, blue, and green lights around during the whole night regardless if it's in the middle of the city or out in a small town by the woods
>sense

>>106162114
>>putting white, blue, and green lights around during the whole night regardless if it's in the middle of the city or out in a small town by the woods
What's the problem?
>it's not natural!
Nothing you take for granted is natural.

>>106161824
The LEDs used by the lowest bidder contractors hired to install street lighting actually do reduce insect, bird, and bat populations, and ruin night-adapted vision thanks to their high blue spectrum concentration

>>106162107
>It costs more. LED spectra is just more inefficient than a single emission line from whatever element like sodium.
LEDs with longer wavelengths are literally going to be more efficient than bright white LEDs in the same alley as stars with lower surface temperatures and luminosity, what are you talking about?

>>106161733 (OP)
light pollution thread?

>>106162129
>actually do reduce insect, bird, and bat populations,
What, because they move away from the lights?
>and ruin night-adapted vision thanks to their high blue spectrum concentration
Being able to see clearly is a good thing, not a bad thing.

>>106162127
>What's the problem?

>>106162159
>Relative Intensity (%)
What the FUCK does this mean, I've seen it on multiple charts but this sounds really vague when there should clearly be a better idea of how this is calced

>>106162154
>Being able to see clearly is a good thing, not a bad thing.
I agree, which is why I dislike the cheap shit LEDs used in street lighting. You can still preserve night adapted vision while emitting enough light to see clearly, you just have to use the red end of the spectrum.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/streetlights-especially-super-bright-leds-may-harm-insect-populations
>On grassy sections, LED lights cut the population by 33 percent, while sodium lamps had little effect.

>>106162112
You are right about the pesticides but wrong about the animals feasting on them thought process

>>106162180
measure sunlight
have the lamp produce same max brightness as the sun for its most highest wavelength

idk

>>106162159
that green peak in CFL looks interesting but yeah HPS is the way to go if you give a fuck about night ecology

>>106161733 (OP)
People are in an arms race "who can have the brightest headlights" because no one can see shit when a car drives towards you on the other side of the roads.
The streetlights are just soulless cancer.

>>106162159
brainlet here, why do LEDs struggle with warm colors? or is it basically intentional?

>>106162159
>so much fucking blue
Blue LEDs weren't even feasible a couple of years ago...

>>106162308
>Blue LEDs weren't even feasible a couple of years ago...
is that why it seems like more people are complaining about LEDs these days? because they're adding so much blue that it's becoming too much of an eyesore to ignore?

>have highly efficient, reasonably attractive street lighting that is manufactured domestically, or at least somewhere in europe
>spend millions on less efficient technology that is ugly as fuck and manufactured in china
genius

>>106162159
Best non-sunlight spectrum. Based.

>>106162190
>Hedgerows under bright LED lights contained 52 percent fewer caterpillars than dark sections, while areas under duller sodium lamps housed 41 percent fewer.
Ok, but are they just moving to the darker areas?

>>106162354
Perhaps.
It may also just be the fact that you get more lumens from a blue LED than from a green LED and more from a green LED than a red LED, all things equal.
So if you're using tri color LEDs to produce white light, you need to tune their power levels to match output, which they're probably not doing.

>>106161825
That is only true because LEDs output no useful light. You could save even more energy by getting rid of the street lights altogether.

>>106162129
>reduce insect, bird, and bat populations
They don't reduce the populations, they just make them go elsewhere. Animals don't belong in densely human populated areas.

>>106161733 (OP)
I don't want to be basked in yellow-brown piss light whenever I step outside at night.

>>106162490
>You could save even more energy by getting rid of the street lights altogether.
>We're back to using the stars to guide us

What's the spectral difference between something emitting yellow light vs. an LED combining red and green lights to make yellow?

>>106161733 (OP)
Those old enough will remember before sodium there where mercury street lamps and they had very cool daylight color so things just went full circle.
I'm gonna miss orange streetlights tho but those are times that are spent and lived through.

>>106162916
still better than LED

>>106162490
I genuinely do not understand why we have them at all. They seem a net negative to me.

>>106162298
Look at scifi. Everything used to have primarily red displays. Now it's primarily blue. So that's the "color of the future" while red looks old and dated. Who wants to buy something a grandpa would use? As a result, marketing departments tell their companies to do blue LEDs all over the place. It makes the product look cutting edge.

You already have >>106142633 for lightbulb schizophrenia. Did you make another one because everyone rightfully mocked you for being a nutter?

>>106163186
that's because you never leave the house.

>>106161733 (OP)
why do /g/ schizos promote this audiophile-level crap about lighting?
is this a test to check how influentiable people are or something?

>>106161791
Helsinki still has a fuckton of areas with only sodium vapor lamps. Picrel a photo I took last year.

>>106164384
Phonephoto off Helsinki railway station at like 1am last winter

>>106164409
All the middle class suburbs near me are all 100% sodium vapor too, I feel like some areas keep them amber very intentionally.

>>106164384
>>106164409
>>106164427
rape mood

I love when a dicklet in his lifted truck with blue-white leds that shine with the power of the sun is driving towards me at night. It's fuckin great.

>>106164534
savage

>>106161733 (OP)
Wrong. The induction lamp was the endgame. It has no electrodes to wear out. It's as "forever" as you can get. It was something chinks could actually make properly too, unlike LEDs.

>>106164286
Here's Helen Keller to give her two sense.
>>106164154
If everyone in marketing died tomorrow I honestly think the world would heal.

>>106164286
2016 and its consequences have been a disaster for 4chan. That election and the shuttering of certain boards on other sites pushed all the low IQ schizophrenics here, where they spread from /pol/ bringing ruination and stupidity where they go.

>>106165829
why tf have i never heard of those

>>106164384
>>106164409
>>106164427
Soul

>>106161771
Absolutely utopian; a world bathed in soft golden light. Heaven is lit with sodium vapor lamps.

>>106165829
>>106166487
It's a fluorescent lamp with external electrodes. The light spectrum is still awful.

>>106162409
>Ok, but are they just moving to the darker areas?
land can only support a certain saturation of life. when everything gets compressed, populations will shrink and die.

>>106169085
Is that actually an issue in this case, though?

>>106170645
on the scale that LED street lighting is being implemented? yes

>>106167789
i fucking miss it anon, the gov replaced all the lights in my city. sucks to walk or drive at night.

>>106161958
>Literally 400Wh. You know how much this is?
No, I don't. Why are you using Watt-hours? What is that supposed to tell me in this instance?
The unit you're looking for is lumens per Watt. And you should know that sodium lamps are comparable in efficiency to LED in that regard, especially if we're talking 400W+, especially if it's low pressure sodium.

>>106167789
I love it when the night is orange-red instead of a cold blue personally

>>106161733 (OP)
Why not have ORANGE LEDs
>>106162298
They don’t seem to struggle, but they’re kind of a niche product for anything above 40W-equivalent bulbs

>>106175252
orange leds exist but arent as widely available, as in only a few companies make them, and are more expensive
people definitely would buy them if the economics made sense

Never ceases to amaze me how everyone will look for a scapegoat to excuse the mental and emotional anguish that has been compounding every passing year.
It's not LEDs. It's not the government.
No anons, the problem is spiritual and it starts with (You).

>>106175316
Just name the actual problem: social media.

>>106161733 (OP)
Here we go, now we're going to get these mind-numbing propaganda threads full of mind-numbing bullshit because you morons as a group decided to entertain this garbage. You give them an inch and they'll take a mile, and now you'll never see the end of these esoteric shit-for brains threads calling certain types of light "demonic" and all sorts of wonderful cranial-injuring assertions.
This is the board you choose to have. If you dismiss these third world, troll farm dipshits, they'll have to move on.

>>106161820
Preventing crime

>>106175449
LEDs have a prominent blue peak no matter what apparently and blue light is high energy light and orange is lower energy light that oughta be easier to generate eh?

>>106167789
Man, I miss orange street lights. Now every city is flooded with white, sterile light like a fucking hospital.

>>106175316
>no the world is not getting shittier, it's just you
epic gaslighting

>>106175277
I only use Warm White orange LEDs. They aren't as good as incandescent bulbs, but I'll take them over white/bluish LEDs any day.

>>106175732
amber/orange street lights cost a bit more per unit

>>106175508
proof?

>>106161733 (OP)
I just wear antiglare dark sunglasses at night, those fucking leds are brighter than a cloudy day or a twilight scene, I fucking hate it.

If you wear 2 pairs of amber sunglasses, you get the feeling of being in the 2000s again (except there are no stars anymore)

>>106175716
It's happening to everyone you dolt. Everyone is miserable. Society is spiritually sick. And every solution that gets churned out is more and more horrific than the last iteration.

>>106162154
>insects
They illuminate so brightly birds and bats already ate most of them.

>bird
Night migration birds confuse bright streets with landmark moonlit rivers, leading to exhaustion, confusion of routes, exposure to night predators. Birds are sensible too and if those lights are painful to me, i have no doubt they are damaging to them who sleep besides them. Also birds navigate through constellations and light pollution is fucking up star visibility.

>Turtles
Turtles go towards moonlight or the moonlit cloudy sky to reach the water. Now they head into the streets to get crushed or die in a concrete desert.

>>106175316
holy real

>>106176234
>If you wear 2 pairs of amber sunglasses, you get the feeling of being in the 2000s
What are the /g/ approved amber autism glasses? I was looking at some shooting glasses and some generic ones on Amazon.

>>106162253
>that green peak in CFL looks interesting
It's the mercury. Same thing in HPS.

>>106176567
Go to your optics, ask for custom sunglasses, pick the antiglare filter, pick the polarized filter, pick the darkest amber tint. If you think it's too unsafe for night, ask them in grading so you can lift your neck if you need more visibility.

>>106176703
I'm not gonna do that, Anonymous. Sounds expensive and a hassle for what it is, and I don't drive.

>>106162059
>complete ecological collapse
Percentage wise, how much of the Earth's surface is covered by cities that are lit up at night?

>>106175675
They installed warm white LEDs that actually shine down on the street instead of the fucking monochromatic abominations which shone in my fucking windows. Way fucking better, not only is street visibility much better in front of my house, but now I can hardly see the street lights from inside which is also a nice bonus.

>>106162298
It is intentional. All white LEDs are blue (except for true RGB LEDs), with a phosphorus layer that transforms the blue light into yellow. The thickness of the phosphorus layer determines the color temperature. More phosphorus -> warm colors.

>>106176631
yeah i figured. looks cool.

>>106162059
>schizophrenic op wakes up and sharts out a post agreeing with himself while pretending to be someone else

>>106161825
nigga SOX can output over 200lumers per wat.
Also your comparison doesnt make any sense

>>106176983
it gives office spaces that interrogation room from the Matrix look

meow

>>106181332
no

You were staring at a million LEDs while making this post