Thread 106247270

is mac really unix? how does it compare to linux terminal with brew+coreutils package? i'm interested to know what does /g/ say about this because i'm considering buying it. i've heard stories from here that it is "handicapped" somehow but i wanted to verify whether that's true or not. how much it is limited compared to the freedom the one has in linux and windows?
also how it is their ecosystem, is it expensive with all the stuff used for let's say web dev? i've heard that i would need to pay for some basic apps, is that even true? aren't there FOSS alternatives to everything like on all other systems?

>>106247270 (OP)
>also how it is their ecosystem
*how much their ecosystem is worth transitioning to
also i've heard a from a lot of people praising it that it's as great as linux one

faggot

>>106247270 (OP)
>is mac really unix?
It has a prototypical half-micro kernel FreeBSD hybrid which silently panics all the time and has to be rescued by nearly all of core userland utilities.

>i've heard stories
They're true. There's more freedom of choice in fucking Ubuntu that in macOS.

>i would need to pay
Yes, if not up-front then for support.

>aren't there FOSS alternatives
KEK, no.

>>106247270 (OP)
If you need to get work done, consider the Mac.

Need commercial applications? Consider the Mac.

If your idea of gettting work done is ricing your laptop, stick with Desktop Linux.

At the command line, the Mac looks like Unix.

I use MacPorts instead of Brew. I've never gotten or seen the need for Brew.

If you're buying new, add AppleCare+ or AppleCare One.

>>106247270 (OP)
Can you even compile and execute binary on macos without apple approved keys?

>>106247350
>It has a prototypical half-micro kernel FreeBSD hybrid which silently panics all the time and has to be rescued by nearly all of core userland utilities.

I haven't seen a panic for over 5 years.

>>106247376
Yes

>>106247270 (OP)
Tools, like VS code, are available for free.

Take a look at Orbstack.

Need Tailwinds development, look at Elements from Realmac.

>>106247270 (OP)
so many basic bitch questions.

Yes, apple is certified unix. The terminal is not BASH it is zshell. Same commands. it's actually better than bash.

>muh ecosystem

people bitching about apple having an expensive ecosystem are retarded faggots.

>>106247421
The default shell these days is zsh, due to GPL. The Apple-provided bash/sh is version 3.2.

>>106247377
Because they're silent. Only the UI/UX has changed since picrel.

macbook air or macbook pro. any autism niggas work in strange positions like laying down / on couch / outside weigh in on my question? thx

>>106247270 (OP)
>i've heard that i would need to pay for some basic apps,

Define "basic apps."

There's free stuff for just about everything (no, you aren't locked to the Mac app store.) Pretty much all the the popular cross-platform OSS are available. And on the occasion they don't have a ready to go Mac download, you can compile it yourself if you know how.

Unless you absolutely must have MS's Office, it comes with Apple's iWork suite. Most of the popular free alternatives are available too.

And with Apple silicon, you can even install IOS/iPad apps now.

>>106247466
I have the 14" M1 Max MacBook Pro.
I prefer the Pro.

>>106247270 (OP)
>is mac really unix?
XNU is Not Unix
>how does it compare to linux terminal with brew+coreutils package?
Brew sucks. It breaks on upgrades and system integrity protection fucks it up sometimes.
>i'm interested to know what does /g/ say about this because i'm considering buying it.
I used macs for decades. They're okay if you are a creative, but linux is better if you're a programmer.
>i've heard stories from here that it is "handicapped" somehow but i wanted to verify whether that's true or not. how much it is limited compared to the freedom the one has in linux and windows?
Again, this all depends on what you're trying to do with your machine anon. If you are a programmer, don't get a macbook, it can't boot linux. If you just want to play games, pick the platfrom supported by your games (probably windows). If AI didn't take your art job yet, get a mac.
>also how it is their ecosystem, is it expensive with all the stuff used for let's say web dev?
If you're doing web dev, you should probably get linux.
>i've heard that i would need to pay for some basic apps, is that even true? aren't there FOSS alternatives to everything like on all other systems?
Yes, you have to pay for Docker on Mac when it's free on Linux. Docker containers run on the system kernel, and Mac OS doesn't support containers. So the Docker team has to build a special snowflake version just for Mac OS and they charge money to do that.

It sounds like you want to webdev. You're better off with Arch Linux + KDE plasma.

>>106247694
>Yes, you have to pay for Docker on Mac when it's free on Linux. Docker containers run on the system kernel, and Mac OS doesn't support containers. So the Docker team has to build a special snowflake version just for Mac OS and they charge money to do that.

You don't have to pay for docker on macos. Probably docker/podman/orbstack will start using apple's containerization api for better performance+stability vs the existing solution.
The only thing you might notice for now is that containers built for x86 don't perform as well, but they work.

Lol iJeets are desperate to make a sale, sad

>>106247466
I got myself an air, mostly because I wanted a very light laptop to carry everywhere (engineering student)

>>106247909
>You don't have to pay for docker on macos.
https://www.docker.com/pricing/
You do as soon as you have a job with a company and a team of users.
>podman
Opinion discarded.

$1000 m4 air 24gb 512gb (deal)
$1500 m4 pro 16gb 512gb

ahhhh is the screen really much better on the pro? as a windows fag would i even be able to tell?

>>106247270 (OP)
Just to offer yet another opinion.
>is mac really unix?
literally yes, Google it.
>how does it compare to linux terminal with brew+coreutils package?
userland is BSD, mostly the same but some small differences. use macports instead of brew
>i'm interested to know what does /g/ say about this because i'm considering buying it.
buy it
>i've heard stories from here that it is "handicapped" somehow
it's not, how would it be? The desktop environment is not switchable as in linuxes and it's not as customizable as most linux DEs, I guess that pisses some people off
>how much it is limited compared to the freedom the one has in linux
extremely
>and windows?
very little
>also how it is their ecosystem,
cool
>is it expensive
yes
>with all the stuff used for let's say web dev?
no
>i've heard that i would need to pay for some basic apps, is that even true?
examples? foss is foss, so no more or less than on linux
>aren't there FOSS alternatives to everything like on all other systems?
yes, but they're shit like on all other systems

>>106247986
Personally I would get the pro out of those two. People will come now and tell that's not enough RAM. If you're a webdev it's enough. More is more, thoughbeit

>>106247462
The system image hasn't changed since 2012? Gimme a break.

>>106247958
That's the pricing page for all platforms, has nothing specific to do with macs

>>106248042
>it's not, how would it be?
sudo ls ~/Library/Mail
ls: Mail: Operation not permitted

>>106248105
You don't need docker desktop on Linux anon. You just,
sudo pacman -S docker

and done.

>>106248147
> has sudo
> basically told to get fucked by the os
classy, tim apple.

>>106247270 (OP)
The hardware is good, but the software (macOS) is garbage.

>>106248424
Essentially this. If I could boot Linux on a Macbook Air, I might buy one. However, the Asahi Linux project failed predictably.

>>106248424
>The hardware is good
minus the notches
and touchbars
and gooey biodegrading cables
and... okay, the hardware kinda sucks too

>>106247270 (OP)
Company gave me an M1 Max, working on Python and typescript/react webdev bullshit. Works well for this use case, very powerful machine.
You can’t customize it very much but I mostly don’t care nowadays. I miss i3 from Linux but replicated 80% of it with something called AeroSpace and skhd.
Doesn’t work at all with old (10+ years) external displays, had to buy a new one specifically because of this laptop even though the old one was working fine.
Keyboard is tolerable, don’t use many Mac specific shortcuts but love Cmd+C/V instead of Ctrl+C/V.
If you’re doing ANY x86 specific work forget about it, emulation is too slow and unreliable. But not many people do. (I just tried it to see if I could buy an M1 for personal use, so not related to job)
Brew is a slow piece of shit written by a midwit who can’t solve the “mirror a binary tree” problem and you can really feel it; I have a configuration that works for my job and don’t touch it, even though it’s been throwing some errors during updates lately. I just hope it doesn’t break any further, debugging that turd is the last thing I want to do.
This is just a company computer so I don’t participate in the “ecosystem” at all and it doesn’t feel limiting. I don’t know what “basic apps” you think you need to pay for, maybe you could provide some examples. I just use pycharm (also company paid) and then neovim + iTerm2 + other CLI programs which are all free.
Overall I’d say good for webdev but personally I’d have an almost identical experience with Linux. I’m not too fussy nor do I care about customization beyond basic i3 keyboard shortcuts.

Lel all these poorfag jeets in here seething that they cannot afford a new M4 pro mac

>>106247270 (OP)
you didn't ask but I'll tell you anyway: stay away from crossover. it's fuming garbage that leaves processes running in the background even when you close the app and force quit its applications. the tall bars are the days I used crossover. last Wednesday I rebooted for an update and magically my battery lasted 12-13h instead of 3 :)

>>106248538
this is the most realistic answer

>>106248538
>Doesn’t work at all with old (10+ years) external displays,
VGA? has no issues with my old Dell 1440p from 2012

>Brew is a slow piece of shit written by a midwit who can’t solve the “mirror a binary tree” problem and you can really feel it;
that's why people use macports instead of brew garbage

>>106247958
>What is Orbstack

>>106249712
Well I'm happy for you, I tried an HDMI cable and various combinations of VGA/DP with adapters on two different older monitors, both of which Just Work with my Linux laptop. I inspected kernel logs and IIRC the displays were being recognized but failing at some protocol phase, then I gave up and bought a new monitor. That's just my experience, it obviously depends on your hardware but I think it's something to look out for

>>106249880
A docker + linux replacement & addition.

orbstack.dev

>>106247270 (OP)
>muh UNIX
Were you aware that macOS was UNIX certified and Linux wasn't?

>>106247270 (OP)

they bought unix certification and then it is unix?

they paid like five dollar to bsd project and maybe they are bsd then

many say connectivity is bad on mac

>>106252160
because of Linux Isn't a operating system.

>>106247270 (OP)
buy it! The neet faggots will shill you thinkpad to be tinker tranny, but if you want shit to be done, just buy a mac.

>>106249880
>What is Orbstack
Something else I don't need on Linux. Because I have real Linux. Not a janky compatability layer like WSL.
It's pretty sad how you guys can chase the latest memeware like trained rats, but you'd rather gnaw off your own leg than just boot Linux and get shit done.
Who is the tinker tranny now?

>>106247270 (OP)
As far as software goes don't think of it like Linux. Accept the app life. You can install homebrew and use a bunch of terminal apps. You can even install xquartz and use some gui apps from there. Macs are great machines with beautiful screens and astounding speakers. With that said, understand this is Apple's machine, not yours.

>>106247270 (OP)
Apple platforms have had a culture of paying money for things since the 80s
The only thing I can do that I care about on Linux that I can’t do on macOS is run FontForge without it being a crashy piece of shit
Docker is also kind of shit on macOS
Apple has a 14-day no-questions-asked return policy so you can just try things
If you want random command-line programs check https://brew.sh
>>106247376
Yeah, I write Go programs and they just work
>>106247466
I have an M1 Pro and I don’t worry about my comforter heating up the laptop
The Pro models have C-shaped ports on both sides so you can charge from either side
>>106247694
I web dev on macOS and you’re full of shit
Linux is a perfectly good web dev machine unless you want to run an iOS simulator, though, or test your site in desktop Safari
>>106247986
Maybe, maybe not. Can you get to an Apple Store or otherwise see them side-by-side? >>106248147
Yes, you will have to explicitly give your Terminal app permission to read your mail

>>106247270 (OP)
"Switching" is retarded. An OS is merely a tool to run other tools.
ADDING more OS is optimal because you get maximum choice.
I saved old Windows and favorite Linux installs as virtual machines which make ideal backups because they remain fully usable. As VMs you can reboot immediately to clean or any other snapshot if you happen to break something.

I've multiple versions of Windows as VMs or for specific software like GM ECU flashing on bare metal. I need no Mac software or I'd add one and remote into that from my Linux main PCs. Life is too short to limit myself and OS are not frens or enemies. I don't pay for any of them except when bundled with new notebooks.

>>106247270 (OP)
It's fine. Avoid the homebrew shit, and you don't need any thirdparty apps unless you're a typical sperg who spends more time larping with "productivity" tools than actually doing work. Basically if you live in the terminal then you'll be happy.

>>106255281
iTODDLERS BTFO

>>106248147
>AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEE I PREFER LINCOX WHERE BINARIES CAN STEAL MY PERSONAL DATA DUE TO NO PERMISSION SYSTEM AND NO WORKING APPLICATION FIREWALL

>>106247270 (OP)
>is mac really unix?
yes, OS X Sequoia is UNIX®
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/
>how does it compare to linux terminal with brew+coreutils package?
compare in what way?
that's a very vague question
if you want a general overview, ask ChatGPT instead of wasting the time of carbon-based lifeforms
>i've heard stories from here that it is "handicapped" somehow but i wanted to verify whether that's true or not.
i've heard stories that your mom is is a $25 whore who likes to gargle unwashed scrotes
so i guess we've both "heard stories"
>how much it is limited compared to the freedom the one has in linux and windows?
this is an incoherent question
in what respect are leeenooks and wangblowz free in a way that can be contrasted with Mac or anything else?
>also how it is their ecosystem, is it expensive with all the stuff used for let's say web dev?
what "stuff" is that?
if you know, you can add up the license fees yourself
if you don't, you don't need to ask the question until you do
at which point you can add up the license fees for yourself
savvy?
>i've heard that i would need to pay for some basic apps, is that even true?
i have no idea about the fee for the teledildonics app for the girthy vibrating butt plug you undoubtedly consider "basic"
>aren't there FOSS alternatives to everything
what is "everything"?
>like on all other systems?
Haiku? Amiga? NetBSD? MinuetOS? OpenVMS?

>>106248147
open ~/Library/Mail

works on my machine

>>106247270 (OP)
>ctrl+f "POSIX"
>not one reply
Why are you even asking here? This site is worse than garbage if you actually want to learn anything.

>>106247270 (OP)
I'm 10% sure brew is basically a security disaster waiting to happen.
You just have to have any app taken control over and write onto the user writeable brew directory.
I guess it's better than installing brew as root.
But I would probably just skip at times on using terminal on a mac.
So any app can replace brew apps.

I'm not exactly sure what you can do with that further, since the app bundles are signed.
You would have to replace the app bundle with an older version and then have a vulnerable root helper maybe idk, but the app would have to force you to install the old one as if it was an update for the user to get fooled.
But you can always install app bundles and brew on the administrator and then use regular user account.
So brew would be installed by "administrator" and you would just use the user account.

>>106253720
>Who is the tinker tranny now?
It's still you.

>>106247270 (OP)
It just fine, despite what the average freetard on /g/ would want you to believe. Literally the biggest hassle is opening settings to allow an unsigned executable to run which isn't a big deal and it only makes you do that once per executable. If you haven't done any research yourself and are looking to get advice from /g/, you'll likely be unhappy with your purchase anyway so it doesn't matter what I say.
Also what do you mean by
>is it expensive with all the stuff used for let's say web dev?
are you like a student that has never done webdev or a third worlder coding inside of notepad? I could go into more detail about the pros and cons of a mac but this post is so low effort or bait that I wont.

there is no equivalent to macs

macs have:
>soldered SSD/RAM/WLAN
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>when pajeetOS runs out of RAM it swapfile rapes the SSD to death within 3 years
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>when the SSD dies it bricks your entire currybook because the EFI is stored on the soldered SSD to save $0.05
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>components serial numbered and tied to the motherboard to prevent repair and replacement (including battery)
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>riveted keyboard that requires total destruction of the chassis to replace
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>flexgate cables that are so brittle they crack from opening your screen past 90 degrees more than 2 dozen times
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>screens so fucking shit they have over 90ms response times (essentially 10Hz)
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>screen made from pajeet trash glass that cracks from temperature change in seasons or tape over the iBotnet webcam
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>so fire and explosion prone the FAA have banned them from all flights
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>uses phone CPU that's so shit it gets destroyed by decade old i3s from 2017 and can only "compete" by cheating at benchmarks in extreme edge cases with hardware accelerators
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs
>curryniggers at apploo get so full of sniffing their own currynigger silicon shit they ship currybooks with no fans and they run so hot they melt the keyboard keys
doesnt exist on 99% of PCs

>keyboards with 63.5% failure rate
unheard of on PCs, and yet you curryniggers defend it with "jus werx fer me!"
just because you're in the 36.5% survivor group doesn't make your currynigger trash any good
this list goes on forever
there's no PC laptop as total fucking currynigger shit as crapple's streetshitter books
they are the biggest heaps of steaming currynigger shit in the history of computing second only to curryPhones

>>106255769
Those issues don't affect me because I bought a mac mini. what your answer to that?

>>106255657
don't use brew use macports instead

>>106255764
>I could go into more detail about the pros and cons of a mac but this post is so low effort or bait that I wont.
NTA, but can you do it for me, i'm interested to hear more

>>106247270 (OP)
>from here that it is "handicapped" somehow
That's just a projection from the poster, nothing to think about.

Mac is currently the only workable option as far as an OS goes, because it just fucking works. Using any Linux distro or god forbid any Windows after 7 is a humiliation ritual. No one giving you arguments against Mac is giving any rational arguments, it's just cope and seethe and memes because they are too poor to afford one, or have some other strange identity issues related to the OS which they use (aka Linux trannies).