Thread 106317775

What do you think about this technology? I was watching Man of Steel(not a jeet btw) the other day and the image was getting washed out during explosions and during shots that showed the sun. Did the movie uploader fucked up, or its just my that screen that cant handle the luminance? I have a Samsung Odyssey G4. FYI, I have tried other HDR movies, and I had no issues.
On the other hand, HDR works great on vidya on the get go, and it helps cover the IPS's weak blacks. Elden Ring looks real crisp.

I believe it depends mostly on your gpu and os combo. like it just works if you have amd + linux or amd + windows. nvidia is iffy on both. intel just works on windows but broken on linux.

>>106317805
HDR is garbage on AMD anything and doesn't work

>>106317810
nonsense because the HDR just works on PS5 and Xbox, both use AMD.

>>106317841
also Steam Deck OLED.

>>106317805
I dual boot(win10+arch) and I get different results in both OS. I feel that arch can reach higher HDR values on movies(ge proton10+ finally allows HDR in vidya without getting to big screen mode but I have only tried it with chess ultra) but on win 10, I feel that there is a HDR limiter that wont allow me to reach higher values no matter how I increase the contrast/brightness on movies. Games look great there tho. I have a 3060/12700k combo

>>106317841
those are all consoles with custom APUs

>>106317775 (OP)
>Did the movie uploader fucked up
Probably.
A big problem with HDR is the normal scenes look darker unless you have a screen that can go stupid bright.
The uploader might have tried to "fix" this by making everything brighter which would result in blown out highlights.

I love HDR but only in a dark room so my eyes can adjust to the darker scenes and the bright parts look really intense.

>>106317918
Yeah, thats what I thought. I have just downloaded the 70 gb man of steel hdr10 version from rutracker and I see no washed out frames in that version. I have also noticed some brighter frames in other hdr movies between shots as well. Its something similar to smudgy frames between shots in 60fps interpolated movies. It kinda sucks.
>I love HDR but only in a dark room so my eyes can adjust to the darker scenes and the bright parts look really intense.
Depends for me. I enjoy HDR movies, but only in a dimly lit room. The brights can get too bright and it can ve annoying

no

i don't see the difference. it's just placebo nonsense.

>>106317891
>I feel that there is a HDR limiter that wont allow me to reach higher values no matter how I increase the contrast/brightness on movies.
what monitor?

>>106319472
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ApWCtAuKcI
HDR looks amazing on OLED. On pretty much every IPS HDR display I've ever seen it looks like trash.

>>106319644
most OLED monitors can't display HDR properly

>>106319472
watch Hand of God that movie was the first one that really made the hdr effects apparent to me

>>106317775 (OP)
>helps cover the IPS's weak blacks
An IPS would need LD with a stupid amount of zones for HDR to not bloom out the ass. And without LD it's basically fucking nothing.

>>106319658
Proper blacks are way more important than proper highlights. 10-bit color is a huge boon in and of itself that makes HDR a big deal in spite of max brightness.

>>106319692
hdr is about max brightness

>>106317775 (OP)
I run VA monitors because I like deep blacks but don't want to front the money for actual HDR, but I think this .gif is an excellent showcase of a direct comparison that's visible on any display

>>106317810
>>106317912
Like it matters? An APU is just CPU and GPU cores in the same place. The Steam Deck is Vega, consoles are RDNA2, PS5 Pro and other handhelds are RDNA3.5. Yeah Consoles and Linux have better HDR than Windows, but even under Windows, the only good HDR that Nvidia can do is RTX HDR, which is admittedly very good, but it doesn't change the fact your choices are limited.

CRTs had infinite color bit depth (they're analog) and infinite contrast. Some units were capable of very high brightnesses (400nit+) and wide gamuts.
HDR is literally just a case of them reselling you things that they took from you, 25 years later.

>>106319992
I wish there was a solid modern CRT manufacturer. I'd pay up to $200 for even a 640x480 one.

>>106317775 (OP)
why is my sdr monitor able to display the right half of op's image???

>>106320002
even discounting the cost of spooling up production they'd probably be losing money on materials at that price

>>106320014
In 2000s you could buy standard 17" 768p85hz/1024p60hz shitboxes for ~$200. It is doable with enough scale.

>>106320029
$200 is like $500 now

>>106319992
>CRTs had infinite color bit depth (they're analog)
Being analog doesn't mean they have infinite range.
They do have maximum and minimum bounds, and the electron gun doesn't have infinite gradations.

>>106320114
>and the electron gun doesn't have infinite gradations.
It does though. The gun's intensity is controlled by how negatively charged the G1 control grid is, and that is almost directly controlled by what voltage the RGB wires in the VGA cable are at any specific moment in time. There is absolutely nothing that imposes any graduations, except your GPU's DAC, which usually was 12-bit.

I don't really get it. Shouldn't the guy who makes the media decide what the dynamic range should be and bake that into the final rendered image? Why do I need the media format and screen to negotiate this?

I've never watched HDR media btw. I want to understand why it can't be done with existing tech because it sounds like it can.

HDR is awesome and everytime I play a game or watch a movie I'm a bit bummed out if there's no HDR, and excited but also anxious when there is... Because its not always done well or there's some problems with it.
>>106317775 (OP)
Could be the OS. Could be the monitor. Could be the video player. Could be the uploader. Could be the original HDR just being done poorly. Could be something else. That and the fact that there's like several different standards and settings for it (HDR10, HDR10+, Dolby Vision, HLG, what the fuck is true black 400 vs peak 1000 nits and other similar settings) and the fact that most content will still be SDR and there are few actually good HDR displays make HDR annoying. I still don't fully understand it but I'm also potentially retarded so go figure.
I think that Oppenheimer had some faked HDR.

Really nice when everything works, but a bit confusing otherwise. BF6 beta on OLED in HDR was kino.

>>106317775 (OP)
It's a mess. Give it 10-20 years

>>106319618
Its a Samsung Odyssey G4 1080p 240Hz IPS

>>106320177
>I think that Oppenheimer had some faked HDR.
Im sure that 90% of the HDR movies that get uploaded to pirate sites, have a fake, fan made HDR implementation

>>106320156
I was going to shit you about there being an integer numbers of electrons being fired by the gun, which would limit that theoretical infinity, but you already provided a much lower depth of 12-bit.

>>106317775 (OP)
I love it.
Human eyes perceive light better than color, so it makes sense that HDR makes everything look more natural.

>>106320572
Works perfectly on Windows 11 with an HDR1000 Mini-LED monitor.

>>106319692
>Proper blacks are way more important than proper highlights.
Funny how wrong you are because human eyes focus more on highlights than deep blacks. This is why the majority of people are perfectly fine with IPS monitors.

>>106317775 (OP)
>I was watching Man of Steel(not a jeet btw) the other day and the image was getting washed out during explosions and during shots that showed the sun.
Dude your player or/monitor are fucked and can't display HDR properly. There are no such problem on real 1000+ nit capable HDR monitors

>>106322149
This

>>106319992
>Some units were capable of very high brightnesses (400nit+)
Lol

>>106319992
>CRTs had infinite color bit depth
....If it wasn't for the phosphor coating, and the noise of the electron gun.

>>106319992
why do retards romanticize CRTs so much, sure you had deep blacks, but the image quality and everything else fucking sucked.

>>106322208
I wonder how much more accurate it could be with todays tech though

>>106322198
>>106322208
Remotely decent units didn't have these issues. A nice aperture grille looks closer to modern OLEDs than what you might remember your shadow mask shitboxes being like.

>>106322167
Read >>106317966
I have downloaded a man of steel version that had poorly injected HDR. I have then downloaded the 70gb HDR version from rutracker, and this one seems to be working all right. The movie uploader fucked the HDR up

>>106319678
Are you sure about that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUvnX3AIq8Q
And this is the old 2023 model

>>106319692
After a certain point the ONLY way to display more color information is more luminance.
Also OLEDS have aggressive ABL that fucking ruin many HDR scenes

>>106319992
>infinite
you retards have no idea what that word even means any more
There is no such thing as "infinite contrast"

>>106322778
Decent, but that's still
>1056 zones
>$2300 MSRP
There's a reason most minileds are VA.

>>106322858
VA is such a shit technology

>>106319721
OLEDs, if you put them into HDR mode, also expand their colour space to beyond sRGB

>>106322208
>why would the people who still use 20+ year old technology hate on the modern gold standard in monitor technology, that is far too expensive for their jobless arses
Gee I wonder why

>>106323145
>gold standard
>gold standard
>gold standard
>gold standard

>>106323108
You could say that about any monitor tech for one reason or another.

>>106319721
It's way more than that. It's the precision, it's the gamut, it's the matrix coefficients, and it's the EOTF.
>>106322162
Circular argument. People focus more on brights because they use IPS panels that focus more on brights. This says nothing about them in a controlled setting.
>>106322786
And LCD's aren't even close to reaching that certain point. They can try to shoehorn deep blacks all they want, but the blooming is way more distracting than some muted fullscreen brightness.

t. started enjoying media on my phone instead of my TV because it's an OLED

>>106317775 (OP)
>I have a Samsung Odyssey G4
That's not actually a real HDR screen, it can receive a signal and display something on screen but it's not actually capable of displaying HDR.

>>106320009
Because the image is SDR.

>>106319992
>CRTs had infinite color bit depth (they're analog) and infinite contrast.
Just because a device is analog doesn't mean its components have infinite precision and infinite accuracy. The amplifiers and drivers in the thing are not capable of "infinite bit depth" and moreso the fucking things were only ever driven by computer graphics cards at 8bpc or less, so they most certainly did not have infinite bit depth in any way whatsoever in practice.
>infinite contrast
You'd struggle to hit even 500:1 static contrast in a completely unlit room due to blooming and the light from the monitor itself reflecting back onto the grey screen.

I won't even watch 4K movies without Dolby Vision these days, the difference in clarity and vibrance is just too good.

Look I'll hate ABL but even on True Black 400 HDR is just an improvement overall for a lot of games.
Movies I'm not really seeing that much though. I download a lot of stuff that's SDR and anything to "convert it" is kind of pointless.
My biggest issue with HDR is not having to set it up and how chaotic it is at times. My biggest issue is that I wanted to switch to Linux, and x11 does not support it, and I use nvidia which still gives me plenty of issues I don't have with AMD GPUs on wayland (as I tested myself last week, btw, doing extensive tests with both GPUs). I cannot just go like "whatever I'll ditch HDR" because it's honestly nicer. It feels like downgrading if I'm never able to use it. I didn't spend 650 europoors on my monitor just to outright ditch a feature like that, I'm sorry, it's not gonna fucking happen.

I download some episodes of a show that's been trying to come back multiple times and fail once and twice again and still confirmed to have more seasons, and I'm getting some releases with Dolby Vision HDR.
I'm currently using an OLED monitor with HDR calibrated and all that shit.
Either though MPV or VLC, sure it does reach a high level of brightness when there's some highlights here and there, so it must be working, but the image itself looks kind of washed out. It doesn't seem to me like it's all that intentional, but it seems like gamma is going up a few notches.
How can I verify that I'm not fucking up some configuration here?

>>106322162
Nope. Our eyes detect contrast more sharply than either just light or dark. We also see movement more clearly than details. Our eyes are designed to detect differences.

>>106319992
CRTs had a measured contrast ratio of like 300:1. They were terrible. Even if you put them in a pitch black room they'd bleed light and make blacks look gray when viewed in person.

>>106323843
>Just because a device is analog doesn't mean its components have infinite precision and infinite accuracy
Analog is practically infinite. Stop being a fucking retard counting discrete electrons.
>at 8bpc or less
12bit was the late standard for DACs
>You'd struggle to hit even 500:1 static contrast
Most content doesn't look like a fucking chess board. CRT can look very impressive in most dark content, even if not quite OLED-like. Although CRTs have better near-black fidelity due to their analog properties and natural lut-less gamma behavior, you'll never see posterization like on OLEDs.

>>106324499
You are referencing that one stupid FW900 paper where the test intentionally elevated the black level of the tube.
My tubes measure infinite contrast with my x-rite colorimeter.

>>106317775 (OP)

I noticed hdr for the first time playing Mario Kart World. It’s an unnecessary nice to have imho

>>106323778
Any true HDR monitor recommendations? I might buy one in the near future, but Im quite happy with my G4 screen.
>>106324466
If you want to test if your HDR works, you can try it on a videogame. Chess Ultra is a good example. Also, are the washed out parts usually depict an explosion or the sun, or something too bright? If thats the case, then perhaps the guy who added HDR to that show you have downloaded, did a sloppy job. It happens

>>106323742
You have "blooming" on your OLED phone right now just due to how your eyeballs work.

>>106327148
I don't know specifics since I haven't looked at the market in a while. It either needs to be OLED or if it's LCD it must use some form of local dimming to have a chance. You shouldn't really buy any LCD HDR screen that isn't rated at least DisplayHDR 1000. Note that meeting that spec isn't literally just brightness as the name may imply, they have criteria for contrast, black levels, color and so on. OLED screens may not meet DisplayHDR 1000, because they suffer from brightness suicide. There are DisplayHDR "True Black" standards for OLEDs, so look at those if you're buying OLED. Beyond that, once you have narrowed it down to a model (or a few), I suggest looking into specifics for each monitor. When you begin combining HDR, variable refresh rate, local dimming, LCD overdrive and all that shit it's very possible that some monitors may have implementation issues that can cause problems such as VRR flicker (when using local dimming, it's quite common on OLED too).

Also if going the local dimming LCD route, have a look at its behavior when using local dimming in SDR too. Some do this well and it results in a big boost in SDR image quality too, some may not do so hot.

>>106324589
>Analog is practically infinite. Stop being a fucking retard counting discrete electrons.
You're a dumb, ignorant idiot. Every circuit suffers from some level of noise, some level of stray capacitance and inductance, some tolerance range in every component it's made of, some level of variability in the voltage rails, some interference induced from external sources and even from other electronics in the same device. If you think you can send any infinitely small signal into any amplifier and get correct output without any amount of error you're a dumb, ignorant animal.
>12bit was the late standard for DACs
No PC from 20+ years ago when CRTs were in use ran any video mode beyond 8bpc sRGB. In fact for a long, long time PCs didn't even come close to actually using 8bpc color.

>>106327840
>Every circuit suffers from some level of noise
None of this matters, noise doesn't somehow suddenly make the signal have discrete levels. The noise averages out over time. 0.01 +- 0.05 is still observably distinct from 0.02 +- 0.05, given enough time. Your eye has more noise than the tube either way!
>No PC from 20+ years ago when CRTs were in use ran any video mode beyond 8bpc sRGB
Just plain WRONG
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/opengl-workstation-power,334-17.html
2001, Wildcat II 5110, features a RAMDAC with 10-bits per color channel.

But either way, with CRTs all you need to do is upgrade your RAMDAC, was it your GPU or an adapter, and you can increase your bit depth. Unlike modern planned obsolescence garbage, tubes kept benefiting from advances around them.

>>106327840
>sRGB
Also AdobeRGB/NTSC gamut CRTs existed.
https://www.itmedia.co.jp/news/articles/0402/04/news068.html

>>106328876
The gamut of that tube is much wider than advertised btw

>>106327462
>but what about ur eyeballs
Not only is it way more subtle and subconsciously filtered away just like other visual disturbances such as your nose and two retinal blind spots, it's also directly centered around points of interests down to the single pixel instead of artificially illuminating entire zones and totally killing small-scale contrast, the night sky being a prominent example of how much that matters.

>>106317775 (OP)
Excellent for games, which can dynamically tonemap based on parameters, but the standard is fucking scuffed for movies and images.

>>106317775 (OP)
HDR looks awesome, but Windows support is still awful, so HDR will be irrelevant for next 5-10 years at least.

>>106317775 (OP)
human eyes cant see above 0xffffff

People living in the 2030's should be really glad stuff like oled + hdr is standard and they dont have to live in the blurry dim hellscape that is edgelit ips

I have had no display capable of what my OLED does on True Black 400 with some games or videos. You can tell me that other displays have much more brightness without abusing ABL but honestly this looks pretty damn good to me already. Peak 1000 nits with dark scenes with highlights is impressive but blindingly so. If my screen reached 1000 nits fullscreen I would not want anything to display that all of sudden. I "resigned" myself to using True Black 400 and I still love this more than SDR.

>>106317775 (OP)
So does OP gif look the same on both sides on sdr monitors?
hard to believe.

>>106332703
"""True Black"""" ratings are just buzzwords.
High end Minileds are capable of displaying "true blacks" just as well as OLEDS in 95% of situations.